One thing you forgot to note is how some fireballs push you back on block. old sagat fireballs pushing back to full screen after blocking it is really painful.

@tbc1880

9 ай бұрын

Yeah doesn't matter how good it is if you can walk in and make them scared to throw them. Push block making that impossible is suffering. Combine that with an agile character possibly with a teleport and.... pain.

I thought for sure this would wrap up with Akuma's SF2 Turbo air fireball

@shaunmcisaac782

9 ай бұрын

CVS2 Shin Akuma Air Fireball. Combos with itself for an infinite.

@reenans2860

9 ай бұрын

I thought it would be Morrigan UMvC3

@robertmanes9333

9 ай бұрын

The arc is unavoidable.. 35-45 degree angle

@jwill7998

9 ай бұрын

Correct. Even in HDR, Akuma had to be banned despite being "balanced".

@BombermanGold

9 ай бұрын

Same. No matter what version of SF2, if Akuma is in it with his Air Hadou, he can't be stopped.

I've never NEVER made it past Sagat on the hardest difficulty. Never. The zoning, the anti-airs, he was just too strong.

@MuseseekerMan

9 ай бұрын

For me it was Ryu, M.Bison, then Deejay that was hard to beat. Everybody else was easy. Did you know that you get a special animation when you beat all the characters without losing at the hardest difficulty?

@MetaSynForYourSoul

9 ай бұрын

@MuseseekerMan Actually, no. I didn't know that. Who do you play and what's your anti-Sagat strat?

@MuseseekerMan

9 ай бұрын

@@MetaSynForYourSoulI played Ryu and sometimes Ken. It's been about 20 years, but I remember my strategy way jumping hard kicks followed by crouching hard kicks followed by flying uppercuts or fireball spamming. Spam fireballs to get him to block or jump. If he jumps, a well timed fireball or flying uppercut knocks him down allowing you to do the jump attack sequence. If he blocks, then you try to approach a little bit before you fire ball again until you're in range to do the jump sequence.

@Saelee2004

9 ай бұрын

Sagat computer is really easy, I know when I was a kid he was very tough. You can use E-Honda and whenever he does a low tiger, just headbutt him, it'll go straight through and he does low tigers a lot. Another character you can use is Vega, when he throw a Tiger, just jump and attack and repeat or you can do this with any character to be honest. The computer for Sagat is retarded.

@fedupwthursht420

8 ай бұрын

Dhalsim has the best fireballs in the game. You can have two fire balls on the screen at the same time.

Fireball traps were crazy in every SFII. Super Turbo is toned down compared to the crazy shenanigans in Super and CE.

"Tiger!" "Tiger" makes me never want to see a Tiger again, even at a zoo.

@nmnate

9 ай бұрын

I'm here for the SF2 insanity.

@transgxrl

9 ай бұрын

I have a cat named Tiger

6:40 New Sagat's fireballs can have the same recovery due to ST's fireball recovery glitch -- the recovery time is based on the last normal strength inputted, so you can kara cancel LP/LK into fireball to get the same 38 frame recovery. Old Sagat's fireballs are better because the startup is 2 frames faster and his hands don't have hurtboxes.

That transition from sf6 to sf4 was deviously good.

Everyone is stealing the folks, so JM stepped it up and got the folks shirt. That is a frame 0 folks, can't lose.

If I could, I would love to add Sagat in SF6 and turn him into a twisted Gouken anti-shoto archetype: High Tiger Shots, Low Tiger Shots, Angle Upward Tiger shots, and make them Chargable Tiger Shots! I want to see this 7-foot-tall Muy Thai Fighter in SF6 in the RE engine. He would be dope. Take care Jmcrofts!

Reptile from the older MK games deserves an honor mention. They are massive orbs, with 3 different speeds, but most importantly is their knockback properties. They knock the opponent UP and TOWARDS YOU, which makes it really easy to get combos/juggles from them.

@triggerpull9275

8 ай бұрын

the problem is that in spite of that he was only good in umk3, he was the worst character in MK2 thanks to his severe lack of tools compared to the rest of the cast

@maxxdahl6062

8 ай бұрын

@@triggerpull9275Yeah the UMK3 version was him on steroids, MK2 he only really had the acid, the slow forceball and the slide and that was it.

Dude. Sagat in the old games was a beast. When the cpu is playing him it can be damn near impossible to get inside. I remember matches where he would high/low fireball combos faster than is actually possible or come out of a low already in a dp (and I mean no frames in between the fire and the launch of the dp) after an impossible high/low combo. Maddening.

@lightup6751

8 ай бұрын

Yep. It felt like playing a perfect AI with flawless judgment. And that felt this way back then before the big AI craze. Just an unstoppable killing machine.

@syntheticsleep

8 ай бұрын

@@lightup6751 about the only thing worse is Bison with infinite psycho-crushers in Alpha 3 or Eyedol on level 7. THAT was the first thing that ever made me break a controller 😂

@lightup6751

8 ай бұрын

@@syntheticsleep I think remember Bison and it was disgusting. input reading, specials spamming, cheating scum of a CPU. but it also felt like playing the game itself. I don’t know, dude. Back then gaming felt so genuine and real. Hours trying to beat the AI to prove yourself. but holy crap, Eyedol on level 7? there must be videos on youtube, right?

@syntheticsleep

8 ай бұрын

@@lightup6751 probably, I actually haven't looked. But I was super good at KI back in the day and that was the only thing I never accomplished. Cheating bastard 😂

@pastorofmuppets9346

5 ай бұрын

In ww yes but later versions are pretty ez, esp ce. He doesnt throw, has longer recovery and does unsafe shit all the time. Luckily st cpu uses new sagat

Its why justin wong picks him when playing super turbo

Sagat's CPU always scares me out when i play alpha 3. Especially with that crazy low fireball 🥲

@__m4k1__

9 ай бұрын

I learned fighting games bashing my head against the Sagat and blanka cpu's on a3. good memories 🥲

@Luis-Hernandez.2022

9 ай бұрын

Alpha 3 fireballs are rather weak. Alpha 2's are really strong though.

@ryuzxa

9 ай бұрын

Skill issue

Fireballs in 6 seem alright! Like, parry only refunds the amount spent to parry it vs a projectile, and since you spent bar, you've still got a delay on parry regen. Plus a LOT of characters are pretty good at following up on fireballs.

Sagat is the fireball king in my opinion

God I love sagat so much. I'm sure he'll come to sf6 at some point considering his legacy but I hope it's sooner rather than later! I miss knocking fools out of the sky and smothering them in tiger shots

You have no idea how much I love you channel.

@TheRandomrandom97

9 ай бұрын

+1

Love the content! Just ordered my Folks shirt to pair with my First Round is just data mug. 👊

I still have nightmares from my arcade days. "Tiger! Tiger! Uppercut...."

I thought you had Sagat in the end. I held out so much hope. Especially once you got in! You’ll get him next time

Cool to know. If we talk about the fastest projectile though, its definitely Happy Chaos bullets. You cannot even see it since its a hitscan lol

@atbtrendy9932

9 ай бұрын

Its actually not counted as a Fire ball by the game

@rexhasta

9 ай бұрын

like bbcf susanoo 6a lol

@tammid8423

9 ай бұрын

​@@atbtrendy9932Then Optic Blast in MVC

Gives "Tiger, tiger, burning bright" a whole new meaning.

This is the content I want to see more of please!!!!

I hope remy comes back, he had so much potential in SF3, hed be great in 6

@WBRI_Brianless

9 ай бұрын

I did have a fascination with Remy in Third Strike, but I think they need to rework his character. “In Defense of Remy” is a video with a great analysis of how he could be improved As for his moveset, they definitely need to make him a *little* more distinct from Guile if he comes back. I would lose my mind if Blue Nocturne came back as a legitimately viable move

@missquake

9 ай бұрын

He would workin 6, in third strike he has no punish damage

@RanOutOfSpac

9 ай бұрын

That fruitcake edge lord has definitely grown on me, I’d love to see him comeback lmao.

Be interesting to see this video but for Grapplers. What makes a good grab broken?

@realchezboi

9 ай бұрын

i would say if it has good oki, like ultra gief, you have to immediately guess right in their face after a grab

@axis8396

9 ай бұрын

Good reward on the strike, good reward on the throw, looping situations preferably, preferably solid answers to zoning like green hand, parry, and ideally an additional mechanic to throw people off like Tager's magnetism or something that just adds another thing the opponent needs to think about: Hakan's oil, Manon's medals, etc. Basically like any archetype you take all the stuff they do well and do it really well and remove the usual flaws and probably slap on a gimmick that actually is pretty strong be it access to unique tools or a level system that increases snowball potential. After all a throw is only as good as the strike

@egekazkayas8587

9 ай бұрын

some characters can kill with just one grab, while it may not exactly be a win button as getting in range for the grab and having the setups and frame date to land it also matter. Getting killed off of 1 special move hitting once does do a wake-up super on your psyche.

i feel like a kind of crazy fireball that i think should've been mentioned is BFTG Ryu's fireball for a few reasons 1. it's his assist so if you're playing as someone like Jason you can get some decent damage off of it 2. it's pretty easy to combo into 3. projectiles in BFTG are busted

The fact you called tiger uppercut a dp makes me irrationally angry

I'd really like to see such throughout analises about KOF games.

Basically you either want your fireball to be as fast as possible or slightly slower than your character so you can follow behind it.

Another thing that exists in ST : fireball -> fireball combos. You need the right spacing and timing, but they definitely exist. Even without a meaty. I had clips of this on twitter before my twitter got hacked and banned...

"Tiger tiger tiger tiger tiger tiger" - Old Sagat

I miss MK and SF where we didnt have to go to the university and learn math lol. Great video breaking this stuff down.

That was fun. I hit the arcades in SF6 every other weeks. I can't beat a single characters with the 1 coin challenge on ST when it's there lol. No training mode there is rough lol.

An honorable mention should go to Remy from SF3. Yes, fireballs in 3S are much worse than any other SF game but if you take only his character and move to another SF game and he'd be crazy. He has, like Sagat, low hitting projectiles a good reversal and can fill the screen with projectiles. Of course he's still worse than Sagat because his damage is quite low but fireball wise he's actually surprisingly strong.

I wish this was talking about other games because if it was injustice would definitely make the list

One of the most GOAT'd fgc videos of all time!

the folks shirt LMAO that was good

I feel like I could learn a lot of fighting game theory from you.

I feel like fireballs peak around 3 speeds, what I just call the bullet, the boom, and the ball. Bullets fly fast to catch full screen options, booms are slow enough to walk behind or make good on block, and the ball which basically doesn’t move and either holds position, or is placed on the opponent after knockdown for oki.

I heard that next year they are coming out with hairy fire balls.

@russell2910

8 ай бұрын

Can't wait😢

I'm a Honda main. Have been since street fighter 2 hyper fighting. There's no easy way out with a competent fireball trap in 2, you have to fight your way through. In HD remix, they made Honda's light headbutt able to go through 1 fireball. It almost felt like cheating lol.

I need The King for SF6. Capcom needs to bring in all the loyalists and fans who like Sagat for the unique character he is and always has been, even his mid-tier sfv era had its charm.

Whats Good, Brother!

O.Sagat is probably one of the easiest characters to learn in ST. The 2nd hit of both of his standing LK and MK is special cancelable (you can only cancel the 1st hit of his LK in CE and HF). lets him put out insane pressure.

good lord, old sagat is nightmare fuel

New Sagat: I gained a SUPER, but at what cost?

Justin Wong himself calls Super Turbo a “fake competitive fighting game”. Due to the wold imbalances between tourney standard characters.

That Sagat ai destroyed me as a child

Then there’s peacock which simulates D-Day

Today I learned the fireballs in super street fighter dye their hair crazy colors, sleep around, and enjoy pop culture.

Of course, I have to mention Kirby Fighters 2. This game has a ton of moves that would be warcrimes in other games but if we're talking about just fireballs, a few examples come to mind. Fighter's 26[B] has 5 frames of startup and 20 frames of recovery, 25 FAF. It shuts down most of the mid and low tiers, and beats transcendent projectiles. It loses to some stuff like the game's equivalent to Fox laser though. Archer's 2B. 5 frame startup, 10 frame recovery, 15 FAF. Not only does the arrow travel extremely quickly, but it also travels on the ground, going under moves that you can crouch under. Insane move and it's not even Archer's best move despite its insanity. Meta Knight and Sword's [8] > 5B. Skyward Slash, after 25 frames of charging, the next jab will fire off an extremely fast projectile that is fully transcendent. Sword has a faster, longer, taller version, but it's their only good way to force approaches and play the game outside of point blank range. MK's on the other hand, further compliments his extreme space control and mobility. Finally, Beam and Archer's j66B. You know Akuma air fireball? This is that. Archer's isn't quite as good but still extremely powerful, while Beam's shuts down more than half the cast. Oh, and for perspective, Fighter is 8th out of 22, Archer is 11th, MK is 1st, Sword is 17th, and Beam is 12th.

I would like to point out Nash's sonic boom in Alpha 2 because of the guard bug in the game, when Nash throws a fireball if you are in front of it your character would of course be blocking but if you jump the sonic boom and you try to press back your character would be blocking instead of walking because the bug is active until the sonic boom leaves the screen, I not as broken but in terms of game design is broken.

One of the few advantages of MvC2 Roll: Her buster scores a knockdown, unlike Mega Man's.

Theres a reason that Sagat isn't in MvC2 lol. Man, the old flaming fireball back in the day were awesome, of course akuma was the main one who had it but Ryu also did in several games. Poor Ken! Akuma in SFA2 though, such great selection! And in SFTM Akuma has a double fireball once you get full special that doesn't use your special meter, cause its not a super!

I thought he was gonna end with akuma's super turbo air fireball

we need to fix the broken stuff meaning the taticts put to gether to form waky setups

Morgians soul fist in marvel 3 up there

In smash, Dr Mario fireball pills can infinite combo, also positive on block, so can lock you in an infinite block

The most broken is Sagat’s fireball in SF1

I am trying to beat SF: World Warrior with the keyboard as Zangief. I can't do the piledriver with the keyboard. It sucks because you cannot duck under Sagat's high fireball with Zangief because he's too tall! And the original SF...fireballs took like 1/3 health!

whaight, what, why would you have a low fireball that _doesn't_ hit low?? What's the difference otherwise? Better to hit Yoda from SCIII or something?

Sagat is a cool character but I never miss his zoning. JP's got some nonsense but he doesn't tilt me like Sagat did back in the day.

Sagat in SF EX2 his super Tiger Cannon was broken af

.. when did chun-li's fireball stop being a kick move?

I'm surprised you didn't talk about JP's fireball(s). Either fast/overhead/low mixup, or you can cancel it to punish jump-ins

A Tiger uppercut is not a Dragon punch BTW.

I didn't see 3 other fgc KZreadrs make a video about this a couple days ago are u sure this is a good vid idea? Ofc it is cuz vids like this is what makes you unique

Sagat always had the upper and lower hand in the fireball war. Ryu caught up a bit in super turbo 2. In terms of speed though, if memory serves correct, Sagat's tiger cannon in the ex series was definitely the fastest. Since you didn't mention luke, I won't either.

6:30 if you're calling it a dragon punch you should call his fireball hadouken or some translation of it lol

Rhykker could use that shirt

SF4 Sagat with his long Kara-balls, and Ken w/ his short Kara-balls.

Andy in rbff2, chon rei in ff3

Ppl might look at that shirt differently in New York lol

Wait till Akuma comes in with his EX Shakunetsu

But what about CvS2 Shin Akuma's fireballs?

I play futsal with the homies. I don't have the time to keep up with the meta in video games today.

IITurbo : DP is good because it's a single hit Third Strike: [Any move] Is good because it's multiple hits

The speed difference and level changes between Sagat's fireballs...

Tiger Uppercut 🐅 not DP Dragon Punch!😵‍💫

shame Ryu cant get denjin charge and keep it while throwing regular hadoukens. make the denjin version different inputs.

You didnt talked about luke fireball, insanely fast 😂

I NEED SAGAT IN SF6 ASAP PLS.

Told him! Fundament

I dunno sf2 rainbow edition has pretty insane fireballs

SF2 don't mess around. Learn your chops, or these dudes will own you. That's just how it goes. If you can't hang, stick to the moderns. OG SF2 is 1007 territory. .

want sagat on sf6 sooner

We all know that TIGER ROBOCOP is OP!!!

Wish you could've elaborated more. Why are fireballs bad in sf3 but good in sf6 if both have parry

@romajimamulo

9 ай бұрын

I'm not an expert, but in SF3, parry basically gives you control because you have no blockstun from it. So a single parry projectile that's predictable is just free. In SF6, parry doesn't give you frame advantage unless you do a perfect parry, and that causes a slowdown so your opponent can react to it if they're far enough away.

@realchezboi

9 ай бұрын

@@romajimamuloactually there’s no slowdown for perfect parrying a projectile, BUT it is much harder, 5x harder at only 2 frames of leniency, as well as parrying costing a resource that you definitely don’t want to run out and usually not being a net positive when parrying fireballs in neutral

TIGER!!

Just a man, and his--TIIIIIGEEEEER!

MK Armageddon had a low-hitting fireball in the character creator

@KaitouKaiju

9 ай бұрын

Liu Kang's low fireball has to be crouch blocked

MKX, Tanya pre-nerf

Morgan UMVC3 fire bald

Wouldnt WB take issue with that shirt? Seems like a legal liability. EDIT: or is it public domain now?

@moyza_

9 ай бұрын

Probably falls in the "parody" category.

@xmaracx

9 ай бұрын

@@moyza_ thats why im concerned, i dont see that at all, nothing is changed the font is the same, the circle behind is the same, theres nothing unique added, the word itself is unchanged if it was modified even in the slightest way, but this just seems like it ripped word out of the og message and adjusted it EDIT: im not trying to give him shit, i just think itd suck if he got sued

@moyza_

9 ай бұрын

@@xmaracx it's a valid concern, as far as I know!

Funny how old sagat is almost ww sagat but the other old bosses in st are nowhere near their broken ww selves

Bets on being sued by Warner brothers.

All fireballs are not created equal

FOLKS!

HYPER HYPER HYPER HYPER HYPER

TIGER