I think every archetype is someone's most hated archetype

@Ramsey276one

Жыл бұрын

Scissors hates Rock Rock hates Paper Paper hates Scissors XD

@antonsimmons8519

Жыл бұрын

"To the devs: Please nerf Paper. Scissors are fine. Sincerely, Rock."

@FFKonoko

Жыл бұрын

Yes. But there are still some that have higher consensus. Even in a hypothetical situation like the rock paper scissors one another comment brought up, one of those options would somehow be the most popular or the most beginner friendly...and the one that beats it becomes the most hated.

@therealhalfmind

Жыл бұрын

Usually what someone has the most trouble with... and doesn't practice against it.

@slingshotshoto4458

Жыл бұрын

Some people hate zoners and then some people hate grapplers

I think you missed one from the dark days of fighting game design. The 'three utterly broken moves' and 'everything else is hot garbage' character apparently designed with the mindset that they balance each other out because there's no way players will just only ever use those moves.

@shadowraith10

Жыл бұрын

You mean SMash Ultimate Little Mac?

@paulakroy2635

11 ай бұрын

@@shadowraith10little mac has like a lot more than 3 good moves

@danielfletcher706

3 ай бұрын

hftf dio

The worse archetypes are unlockable final bosses. When youre fighting them they are fast. Their frames are better. Their dmg us better. Then you unlock em AND .....they are utter trash

@kumaradio5414

Жыл бұрын

KOF XIV is the only one I've seen where the final boss is unlockable and plays exactly like his boss fight

@PsychoCrusher46

Жыл бұрын

We live in a dystopian society where unlockable bosses are either low tier or banned.

@antonsimmons8519

Жыл бұрын

And fighting games are not the only to suffer from this. Get the boss in your party in an rpg? Well, he's just a normal dude, now.

@Bendoesboxing

Жыл бұрын

@@antonsimmons8519 I’m convinced the only time the boss is good as if not better when you unlock them is Vergil

@kennychen4838

Жыл бұрын

@@Bendoesboxing eh…., in SRW, a mecha crossover turn-based strategy game, has several instances of bosses being like this, with the only caveat usually just that they have player level HP rather than the absurd amounts bosses do. Besides that they’ll usually keep any attacks and abilities they had (assuming they join in the same mech as in the boss fight), can be given extra abilities through player-exclusive upgrade mechanics, and get the ability to use spirits (player-exclusive skills that affect battles, stuff like 2x damage, 100% hit or dodge chance, etc.). Enemies can only use spirits in scripted events.

The Top Three Most Despicable Characters, in every game: 1. The character everyone plays 2. The character that beats my character 3. The character I suck at fighting

Happy Chaos is the one I think of for "zoner that can rush down better than rushdown characters"

@Ramsey276one

Жыл бұрын

FOCUS...

@forcommentingpurposesonly2918

Жыл бұрын

i think its the other way round actually, from the changes they keep making to him each patch it looks like he was supposed to be a rushdown with an unconventional playstyle but that coincidentally resulted in him being a ridiculous zoner.

@VileLasagna

Жыл бұрын

Happy Chaos is his own archetype: "Character that punishes YOU for HIS whiffs"

@nowaylater6950

Жыл бұрын

Happy Chaos or Elphet? Pick your poison!

@Rhannmah

Жыл бұрын

@@forcommentingpurposesonly2918 rushdown with an unconventional playstyle is just every Strive character, honestly

I think for me my least favorites are characters that are purposefully weaker overall because they're given gimmicky "situational" tools that don't actually compensate for the weakness like 90% of the time (FANG and Twelve). It feels like when a character is designed like that like they don't even want you to play those characters. Edit: SFV launch FANG

@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034

Жыл бұрын

Bro FANG, goes crazy tho

@morzathoth919

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes the "This character concept would be broken if we made them good so we made them suck" archetype.

@serenaso4669

Жыл бұрын

​@@morzathoth919 Oh yeah, Vsav Anakaris comes to mind: he can be super fun to play, but man he suck... half his gimmicky kit is useless or detrimental😢

@morzathoth919

Жыл бұрын

@@serenaso4669 If they just let him pushblock he would at least be playable, but no, can't even do that. Capcom give us Darkstalkers 4 already.

@milesandrews6711

Жыл бұрын

Arakune is a menace and hes apart of these guys

Another great example of number 2 is Kabal from Mortal Kombat 9. That guy could jump back instant-air gas blast you all day long, and then you have his full screen dash that leads into a combo that restands you into his insane block pressure that you almost never can find a moment to get out of unless the Kabal player messes up the dash cancelling execution.

@ectothermia1

Жыл бұрын

Half of the dedicated zoners really got done dirty in that game. Noob, sindel, and Stryker all had trash normals and their zoning wasn't even as good as the best rushdown character in the game. Then someone with a pocket Smoke could just press one of his three "you can't zone me" buttons against you lol

@Gettenhart

Жыл бұрын

Kabal in UMK3 was a pain too

@fissilewhistle

Жыл бұрын

MK9 was full of clownery like that.

@NostalgiaDemon

Жыл бұрын

Skarlet is literally the same bc she can just do the infinite blockstring and you'll die from Chip dmg💀💀 MK9 in general was a shitstravaganza

@blazaybla22

Жыл бұрын

You know a game is busted when a character can do almost 50% meterless and they’re considered bottom tier 💀

I remember when Batgirl completely flipped the Injustice 1 meta on its head by being an incredibly strong punisher of zoning whilst having a pretty nutty vortex and some strong meterless damage.

@juicepouch1

Жыл бұрын

The dlc left that game busted since nrs never came back to balance them after the community fleshed out those match ups. I wish there had been an option like ultra sf4 where you could choose the version of each character so that if I had to fight another bat girl I could at least be the broken version of superman and make it miserable for both of us😂

@austingoyne3039

Жыл бұрын

And that was when Sonicfox emerged afaik

I feel like grapplers and zoners are the most hated in general; they force you to play a completely different style of play, on top of being very tough for new players to deal with. For Zoners they can keep you at bay if you have no concept of proper defense and approach options yet, whereas with Grapplers they punish mistakes VERY harshly and while many grapplers fall off in higher level play that doesn't really apply to people still learning the fundamentals and matchups.

@DetectiveGrey

Жыл бұрын

I used to hate grapplers, but that was in my infancy of fighting games before I recognized jumping and reaction-jabbing as a valid defensive option. Now I just hate them because I'm bad

My pet peeve is that VIolent Ken never looks the way he does in the promotional artwork

@theotherjared9824

Жыл бұрын

I still don't know why they gave him an afro for that one key art.

@TMNTfever

Жыл бұрын

@@theotherjared9824 I personally love the afro from SvC Chaos promos. Someone should edit the sprite to have it.

@kumaradio5414

Жыл бұрын

@@TMNTfever EXACTLY

One thing I notice in ALL of John Crofts videos is that he's ALWAYS smiling! Dude absolutely loves talking about fighting games! I love it!

I don't mind 2D characters in Tekken. I do mind that they're so overpowered though. I think Eliza is a pretty good balance between 2D and 3D. I mean sure she's a Tekken character but she's definitely meant to be a "2D character beta test" waaay back in Tekken Revo.

The one that I hate the most is the one that beats me up, so all of them

Akuma is a straight menace, he arguably counts in some form for every section you talked about. Gotta love him.

The ones I most hate are the setup characters who are too good at setting up. As the setplay type basically wins all day once the setup is in, characters who play that way shouldn't be difficult to stuff, but sometimes, one is.

@JacopoJayVuga

Жыл бұрын

Interesting take! Can I ask you a top3/top 5 of the "settest" characters in your opinion?

@greenheroes

Жыл бұрын

that sounds like steve/phoenix wright where they just farm to buff themself whenever they are not continuously pressured, and they do it way too effectively.

@darkmatter7713

Жыл бұрын

@@greenheroes kinda disagree on phoenix since he needs a team to help him gather legitimate evidence and enter turnabout mode

@quantumpotato

Жыл бұрын

​@@JacopoJayVuga Testament & ZATO-1 in Guilty Gear XX #Reload. Very fast, far reaching set plays -> hard to avoid unblockables -> stuns -> 100%s. Plus fantastic tools in general (Testament has absurdly strong loops, his projectile can create setplay that's devastating even without stuns (the tree & nets are the real OP set plays though), he has a counter that when it hits, poisons the enemy. ZATO has a projectile reflect, decent normals without his shadow. When his shadow comes online he can practically TOD you from a random poke.

@Noah-yp6yy

Жыл бұрын

​@@JacopoJayVuga new moon pucci from asbr

Grapplers with better speed and projectiles than other less gifted characters *cough* *cough* Z Broly *cough*

@Izayakuun

Жыл бұрын

"THE BEST ZONER IN THE GAME IS A GRAPPLER" - MoldyBagel

@cytosine6870

Жыл бұрын

@@Izayakuun I still can't believe dedicated zoners like Frieza have arguably worse zoning than Broly who is also a grappler and arguably the best grappler too.

@JoJo-qw7ic

Жыл бұрын

Z Bully. Remember when Frieza was almost completely useless against him?

@grasseater7374

Жыл бұрын

Z Broly is like 3 archetypes in one. He’s completely ridiculous. What’s even more ridiculous is that a character like Z Bully isn’t the best character in FighterZ... wild.

@milesandrews6711

Жыл бұрын

​@@grasseater7374 hillariously he isnt even considered top 5 by most and he isnt even considered top tier by some

Armor abusers are my biggest issue. Things like kouma from melty blood where they can just respond to any attempt to fight back with more armored moves.

@Inojin67

Жыл бұрын

did you know ex moves break armor

@deyontemyers4109

Жыл бұрын

​@@Inojin67wish we had that in DBFZ...

@joeystarr1273

11 ай бұрын

Nah bro Tager from blazblue or waldstien from Unist 💀

Adding to what is said about 3S Akuma: Everyone can only choose 1 of 3 supers to do while he gets that and has 2 additional supers (Raging demon and ddd+pp) and has no access to EX special moves.

The annoying thing about Akuma in Tekken is that they totally could have removed his fireball and it would be in character for him. (Totally flexing on them by not even using some of his moves)

My most hated archetype is learning to fight a player who has used one specific archetype character, and the moment you finally beat their main, they pull out their hidden secondary they never told you about and sends you straight to the shadow realm

@markrobertson1116

Жыл бұрын

That's not an archetype, that's just counter-picking.

@exaltedfalcheon1793

Жыл бұрын

​@@markrobertson1116 Sounds like skill issue

low HP with a ton of tools tend to be some of my favorite characters but i can definitely see why everybody hates fighting them bc they can be kinda busted sometimes

Another archetype is the heavy mixup characters after one knockdown and it feels like you're in 50/50 land forever until you guess right. Like R. Mika, and Zangief.

@Stickyz

Жыл бұрын

That's just a grappler functioning properly

@NostalgiaDemon

Жыл бұрын

My main Decapre is exactly that

@NostalgiaDemon

Жыл бұрын

​@Stickyz GT Yeah cuz without that what are they gonna do💀

I think some of the least fun to fight characters are the setup characters (Jack-O, Gargos, etc.). You make a mistake at the start of the round and then you're covered in servants unable to press anything unless you know the character in and out. Second only anime/Netherrealm zoners.

I never played strive but in +r chip isn't impossible to zone, you can just use your air attacks because of the wealth of tools in neutral

@ir6734

Жыл бұрын

Strive really makes the distance between you and the opponent smaller and easier to cross. Someone like Chip has no problem approaching you in half a second

@zxt5148

Жыл бұрын

​@@ir6734 Potemkin and Goldlewis disagree

@juliandurant7559

Жыл бұрын

@@zxt5148 Chipp vs Pot always has been and always should be the true risk vs reward playstyle on both sides, but Chipp vs Goldlewis is generally pretty miserable. Like yes, Big Gold hits Chipp once and then Chipp is dead. But more often than not, Chipp ironically out pokes and out punishes GL because of absurd mobility while having serviceable normals. It's kinda the same way that Ky does really well with 6P, Stun Dipper and every air button.

@zxt5148

Жыл бұрын

@@juliandurant7559 Yea I play Gold. I haaattee the Chipp matchup. Then again, if its not Potemkin or Sol, I'm probably miserable.

I don't necessarily hate a specific archetype. I have more hate towards bad balance, and specific type of moves in different combinations.

@SquidwardProfilePic

Жыл бұрын

You mean like if a move is really good with no downside? Or a move is really bad with no upside?

@FrankTheDoomriderJohansen

Жыл бұрын

@@SquidwardProfilePic Basically that. Abusable safe or + moves, neutral bypassing safe or + moves as examples. Walk behind projectiles, command jump arcs that are hard to consistently anti air and easy to set up guessing gimmicks... there are sooooo many things wrong with fighting games I don't even know why I play them anymore.

It feels like Akuma was meant for Street FIghter X Tekken in a game where everyone else's moveset and mechanics was modified to deal with it.

I think you missed the mark on Zoners that can rush down better than normal rushdown. If you see Ferry in Granblue or Dhalsim in Sf5 they zone an when they get their 1 touch they immediately rush down an go for crazy mix. With their busted projectiles

My least favorite archetype is whatever archetype I lost too. Even if it's the same one I'm playing they're playing it unfairly compared to me.

@DioDCynic

Жыл бұрын

fighting games are not for you lol

I can definitely agree with the "this character in the best in the game, except if you sneeze on them they die" archetype being one of the most frustrating. Even if they are relatively well balanced, it often feels like I have to account for 10 things they could do at any given moment while they generally only have to account for like 3-4. It is why I'm super interested how Akuma turns out in SF6, since in the closed betas, everyone had the exact same health value, so they would actually have to balance his kit around the tools he has and not around his health.

@jmanwild87

Жыл бұрын

I feel like the problem with those characters is that they're incredibly hard to balance. Like if you give a character pretty much everything they can want and punish that with low health you can often run into the issue where. It doesn't matter that x character has the lowest health in the game and dies super quick. They just have the tools to win without really having to be touched. Whereas the lots of health big damage slow archetype often sucks because they don't have the tools to either get in or stay in

@DjGameKing

Жыл бұрын

@@jmanwild87 Exactly. There is a reason Zangief isn't that good in most SF games while Akuma is at worst a mid tier. That's very much why I am interested in SF6's balancing, since (from the betas anyway) everyone had the same health value so you actually have to balance characters like Gief and Akuma on their kit and not their health value being higher/lower than most

I hate characters that overly depend on meter/installs. The kind that’s either “I have meter so it’s my turn” or “I don’t have meter so I’m losing” It makes situations feel a lot less dynamic because there isn’t much you can to do turn around a situation in your control. It takes away a lot of the risk/reward of your options since you just have to wait a lot of times.

@TheGreektrojan

Жыл бұрын

SFV G is one of the better implementations of this style of character I've seen in a while. The ground gimmick is a great way to balance around it. You are right that its usually poorly done most of the time.

@mikamoschella3410

Жыл бұрын

Actually by far the worst example is seen in Smash Ultimate. There are many characters with powerful abilities tied to time passing or passive actions, like Wario, Joker, Cloud, and most notoriously Steve. These characters are literally incentivized to avoid playing, not walling out and zoning with projectiles and spaced attacks, but just running circles and avoiding all interaction. It’s just awful to play out.

@Spoonsire

Жыл бұрын

​@@mikamoschella3410 Wario, if anything, is directly incentivized to get in close, considering that Ultimate buffed his Bite to charge the Gas faster. Granted, even with landing Bites, it's still gonna be over a minute to charge😢

@mehgamer467

Жыл бұрын

​@TheGreektrojan G was nerfed multiple times though haha.

@TheGreektrojan

Жыл бұрын

@@mehgamer467 This is true, I'm talking about his current state where he's good but not top tier.

Him talking about super powerful but low HP characters and not talking about Phoenix in UMVC3 stuns me.

@deyontemyers4109

Жыл бұрын

I NEED MORE POWER wonder how many people get this joke

for me it’s low health but high damage characters/option characters because there’s always a big body who sucks but then this archetype get all the advantages but none of the drawbacks

I’ve never been able to wrap my head around charge characters. I just can’t seem to comprehend holding a button or direction while also doing other stuff on the controller, which sucks because some of my favorite fighting game characters is a charge character (big band) and I just can’t seem to get good as him.

Also I'm a Axl Main, my brother mains Chipp he's not good enough to beat me yet so when he tries to go in the air I try to hit him with a bomber or two, and he tends to chill on the jump ins

I've seen a multitude of people harshly criticize 2D characters in 3D games, but they only cite Akuma and Geese as examples. How do those individuals feel about Mai Shiranui in DOA5 (and 6 alongside Kula Diamond) and/or Haohmaru in SC6? I never hear much about them. (I personally don't think Kula fits in DOA, but that's my only criticism there.)

Okay but Haohmaru was sick in Soul Cal 6 though

Neatherrealm zoners, all of them. Also in For Honor with the recent changes to dodges, anyone with easy access to unblockables. You have to either dodge them or parry them, you go for the dodge, they feint their unblockable to a guard break and get a free heavy or a bash into heavy, you go for the parry and they feint and parry you, bash you, or dodge attack and your back into the mixer.

You forgot all about Phoenix from UMVC3. She’s literally one touch BUT that means you’re also one touch if she opens you up.

I would continue on your guest characters in Tekken thing by adding that I think the real issue is that any character that is "true to their origional game" in a way that breaks the rules of the game tend to cause issues. Sometimes it is cool! Other times you get Akuma in Tekken or for the Smashies in the audience they deal with that... a lot... the examples are all over the place. In general rule breaking characters are something else.

@chazaqiel2319

Жыл бұрын

I was actually going to comment the same thing, with Smash as an example. I think there are a couple of ways in which you can implement characters with different universal mechanics, but it's an extremely tight rope to walk which I'd rather see avoided. For example, Bayonetta works because, once you boil her down to her raw playstyle, she's a relatively slow but agile, highly combo-centric character with extremely strong recovery options. But even then, I think Bats Within are stupid. Min Min works because despite her many oddities she's still balanced like a traditional zoner, and under those parameters she's relatively fair. And still, I think her edgeguard is stupid. And then there are Kazuya and especially Steve who are so radically different from every other character that they just turn Smash into a minigame where you have to play around their tools, which are tools no one else gets so the chances that your character is equipped to deal with them are next to nothing, and regardless of if you win or lose you just got robbed of the chance to play the game you booted up to play.

@forcommentingpurposesonly2918

Жыл бұрын

eh, its fine in smash, that game was WAY too samey before the introduction of the more interesting characters.

@ungeekfurioso4802

Жыл бұрын

If a character in the game is legal and not banned directly by the company that developed it, how can we even argue that they break the "rules"

@UsingGorillaLogic

Жыл бұрын

@@ungeekfurioso4802 I mean more that they have a completely different set of mechanics. I don't mean they literally break the rules that is why I said sometimes they are fine. I just mean how they function is so divorced from other characters they break the foundation. This can be iffy because a lot of the times that means you need very specific solutions to dealing with that specific character not everyone in a cast has access to. I would argue Akuma and Geese are better designed examples of this issue because every character DOES have solutions to deal with them, they are just very divisive.

@mehgamer467

Жыл бұрын

​​@Chazaqiel I don't think making minmin heavy AND having intangible arms is fair when you have sephiroth right over there who is light and has to be far safer than the character with the most range in the game. She isn't busted, but she is not balanced. Sephiroth is a much better example of a balanced ranged character outside of wing cheese and counter. Most ranged characters in fighting games have very low hp and struggle boxing. This is like sephiroth. Minmins oos isn't as bad and her recovery is really the only major weakness she has and even then it's not even bad. It's just below average. Not only that but she has a reflector for some reason? Why?

Yo JM! Love the content as always man. Would love to see some hoodies in the merch line up instead of just T-shirts, I dont know the logistics regarding that, but I'd for sure cop a hoodie. Much love

Bro, that mug is fire. A fine addition to my collection thank you

for me it's characters that are playing a completely different game, and overpowered dlc that gets special treatment

AHHHH! I'm 8 days late and was still able to get my hands on that sweet sweet data mug! I really enjoy your positivity and its gotten me out of my shell to try online and fight actual people. I keep telling myself, the first round is just data! Let's goooooo!

I want to play the most untouchable fun killing god forsaken zoner to ever exist. I want to be a VILLAIN, and always be respectful to my opponents, so they get emotional whiplash.

And to add on your akuma point, what happens when you give him all his strength, take away the weakness of low health and put him in a another game…. You have top 3 character in Tekken 7 for the last 5 years🤣🤣🤣

@thepjup4507

Жыл бұрын

sounds like you havent played tekken 7 in the last 5 years if you think akuma is still even near top 3

@Dat_coach_reg

Жыл бұрын

@@thepjup4507 wait🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 who is above akuma rn. Dear god don’t say feng, Gesse, jin or zafina

@bernardops7138

Жыл бұрын

​@@Dat_coach_reg would like to know too lmao

you know... 2d in 3d could also easily be turned into "characters that don't follow the rules of the core game" i.e characters with air dashes in games almost entirely without them, or characters that can roll or dash past projectiles in games where thats not normally possible except by said characters. heck i think at one point where 3d in 2d was a thing?

@quantumpotato

Жыл бұрын

yeah that coincides with the "hard to zone" discussed in the video. I personally love when characters define matchups (like Guilty Gear) but only if the resulting game is balanced & interesting (hard to do). The C. Viper example seemed very neat, reminded me of Fei Long.

@likky1

Жыл бұрын

@@quantumpotato sometimes when i think “characters that don’t follow the rules of the core game” the opposite is true when they LACK the tools that everyone else has, building meter by dealing damage, air dashes, rolls, supers, specials, etc it is more rare but i think i hate them more than anything especially when they end up better than the ones with said tools its rare and i cannot think of anyone of the top of my head probably because their usually rare and bad

@quantumpotato

Жыл бұрын

@@likky1 yeah that's a good point. TOTALLY different characters feels bad, if it's too strongly defining it's often not balanced. Ron McDon's Za Wārudo in Hyperfight comes to mind. He stops time, sets you up then gets a combo in a game without combos.

@likky1

Жыл бұрын

@@quantumpotato a character that specifically lacks the ability to build meter by himself does come to mind (only through using a special) a character called gunvolt in blade strangers is meter dependant and HAS to either get hit or use a special that does nothing but make him stand still and build half a meter

@quantumpotato

Жыл бұрын

@@likky1 Robo-KY did something like that, he only builds meter on his mat. He's a real goofy character. Kind of meta-defining in a way - I liked it because it's interesting though I can see how it's frustrating to play vs him and having to learn new Robo-Ky mechanics (meter, auto super, heat gauge & steam)

“Boss” characters for me. Y’know you’re Hilda, Susanoo, Akuma, Devil and so on

Im so glad I got my order in! I usually never see these kinds of things in time.

Speaking of characters that feel out of place like 2d in 3d games, in doa 5 we had 4 characters from virtua fighters and man, that was odd,, they felt very strange to play against or with, even the sound was awkward

another character that is impossible to zone is Smoke in MK9. he has an anti-projectile move much like nightwolf's except smoke's is faster, strongest AND it can be mantained, so you don't even have to react, also you can combo off of it. he also has a teleport punch similar to scorpion's but much much faster plus his move speed is very high. it almost seems like he was specifically designed to counter reptile.

The big wrestler guy that has lots of grappling moves (Zangief, Goro, Potemkin.) It's like, I have to keep my distance if I don't want to get grabbed but if I try not to get too close then there's less combo opportunities for me.

Alex's theme got me over here grooving. I love that version!

Zoners that also have a strong reversal move that cancels out all your effort to close the distance Yes I mean JP specifically

My most hated archetype also happens to be the one I play in most games, the puppet character. My first memory of fighting games was being decimated by these 2v1 cheaters and I thought it was so bullshit that I decided to play them myself. Lo and behold I discovered that I like cheating. I've gotten better at fighting these types of character due to my experience with them but in most games they tend to have some ridiculous offensive sequences that are extremely hard to deal with and even harder to lab if you don't play them(except in gg +r, why don't more game include replay takeover???). Still nothing gets me as excited to gang up on some poor unsuspecting player with my imaginary buddies. Some of the characters I play include Zato/Eddie from Guilty Gear, Shadow Labrys from Persona, Pom from Them's Fightin' Herds, Mario from Melty blood and more! They all have grade A bullshit when the right opportunity presents itself. Carl Clover looks really cool too so I might try him whenever I get into BlazBlue.

@deyontemyers4109

Жыл бұрын

I think you're just a little down when someone out does you in your gimmick you learned and spent 140 hours in and slowly start feeling that all your training does nothing...no I'm not speaking from my personal experience

@Scummoner

Жыл бұрын

@@deyontemyers4109 🥲Been there, done that. Hey at least it looks really cool.

my most hated archtype is sagat

Rushdowns that are too good at mixing you up and/or all off his mix ups are non commital making it so once they get in which they easily do,they stay in really easy while constantly making you guess,making it feel like you are playing against a rushdown with the reward of a grappler

Probably the Comeback mechanic or Super the character kind of deal, which have the goal of maybe chipping 25% of your health while you dumpster them to reversal threshold, to then hit one confirm from a neutral interaction to a will it kill clip.

@SquidwardProfilePic

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I hate any character that may put me in a sajam video

I played against an Akuma pretty recently in Tekken 7 and they just played him really slow and kept their guard up, and essentially used him as a zoner. We got so close to running the timer out multiple times. Would not try to play against again tbh

@SiniBANG

Жыл бұрын

My friend who plays Akuma in SF once said that Tekken 7 Akuma felt slower than usual and is more execution heavy when he tried learning the big boy demon flip combos.

@darkzen8554

Жыл бұрын

He probably is slower in Tekken. This player played him more like a "turtle". Waiting for me to make a move and slowly doing any of the combos that took execution, if at all. Which was only when I got up to him. I've played more aggressive Akumas since and found that more enjoyable, even if I lost

Im surprised u didn't mention smoke from mk9. He by far is the one character you cant spam on. He has moves dedicated towards spammers like his perry, and in my opinion the best Teleport in the game that comes out so quick and can follow u and hit you anywhere on screen twice and if you burn a meter can hit u 3 times.

That is actually a really nice mug.. tempting

For Akuma, is it part of lore? Coz although the Dark Hadou makes him powerful, it also destroys his body (a high price to pay for such power)?

If there's one thing I hate in fighting games it's long range characters, short range characters, and medium range characters.

Cool background at the start

I got to mention Phoenix from MvC3. She was basically Storm + Spiral from MvC2: rushdown, zoning, chip damage, teleports, big super, infinites, etc. but then throw in healing.

@zakk219

Жыл бұрын

I actually think Phoenix is very close to being fair in that game. You really have to build a team around her and play around building the meter to turn her dark. That means you either have to play a team that can kill easily without meter/xfactor while also building the meter you need or risk using meter/xfactor and deal with a character that dies in one hit from pretty much any character. The only problem is xfactor level 3 is way too strong so it kinda negates the need to play the meter game as you can just risk being able to get the hit with normal Phoenix and convert into infinite. I think nerfing xfactor 3 would definitely make her a more manageable/less viable character.

@rhetttheehitman9771

Жыл бұрын

@@zakk219 I think the thing is that having a team like the Phoenix/Morrigan shell who can spend a ton of meter, make the game annoying yet build a ton of meter to still have the ace in the sleeve absolutely makes it worthy of a mention. Having to make certain teams or come up with tech specifically meant to counter that them makes it somewhat unbalanced. Besides, none of the characters mentioned in this video were unbeatable, they simply were top characters - which I think Phoenix (and Morrigan) are in this game. Additionally, many people would consider Phoenix and Morrigan to be two out of three of the best characters in this game, and having them have so much synergy on a team together is pretty noteworthy imo.

@zakk219

Жыл бұрын

@@rhetttheehitman9771 That's fair. It is pretty notable that she works fairly well with most of the top tiers in the game. I really wish UMvC3 would have gotten at least one or two more patches to address some of the really dumb/broken stuff in the game.

You got a chuckle out of me with your thumbnail

Absolutely love the thumbnail. It’s artistic brilliance.

Boy oh boy do I love the designated top-tier. That's the character intended by the developers to be good that suppresses other characters and doesn't have any counter pick.

@Hawaiiitalian

Жыл бұрын

Luke ins sfv cough cough

11:49 I didn’t remember Rufus having such sumptuous jiggle physics

The clip of Chipp get OHKOd by CH Ram super because of Gamma Blade will always be my favorite strive clip

Love it, got my boy Zero in the divine stance

@jmcrofts I 100% agree with what characters u picked!

My most hated archetype is constant Armor characters like hulk, Colossus and Mech Zangief. It's like they are annihilating your efforts to win

My least favorite type of characters 1. AutoZoners I’m fine with regular zoning (hell I mostly play zoners) but characters where their zoning tools actively lock on to you is just not fun 2. Characters that can kinda just TOD with chip damage like ok I’ve been blocking your plus 15 on block moves and as soon as I manage to get out hey I’m dead to a jab

You can hate any type besides Shoto. Shoto may be boring but it’s (almost) essential to get new people learning the game’s unique mechanics since they’re so easy to pick up and play

Mixup characters are something my monkey brain is not equipped to handle. You're saying I have to not only block, but also block THE RIGHT WAY??? What a nightmare

As a grappler I must say zoners are my main terror. Goenitz coming to KoF 15 is just non stop PTSD. But I must say that, in a more serious and less specifically biased note, the "every tool but low health, lmao" is probably the worst.

This man works fast

I'ma get one of those mugs. Luv u jm

Talking about zoner nullifiers, what about spinal? I think he is the prime example

My least favorite are always the long range/spammy ones. You spend so much time trying to get in and once you're there, you become so desperate to land anything you become predictable and get pushed back out. Sitting in blockstun just isn't fun honestly.

@lilliangoulston5706

Жыл бұрын

Is this that different from pressure/mixup-focused rushdown characters? As a zoner main, we have matchups where we have to deal with the exact same thing

@_Jay_Maker_

Жыл бұрын

Huh. Main zoners for long enough and you'll realize their limitations pretty quickly.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of characters that bend the rules of the game to make them more faithful. I definitely come more from Smash, I know we're not well liked in the FGC, bear with me. But in Smash, combos don't really exist. Most characters if they have combos, it's usually a 2-3 hit true combo, or something that leads to a kill setup/edge guard. Some characters get ladder combos but at least they need platforms to do so. Using platforms in a "platform fighter." So it's really strange to see characters like Bayonetta come in and get very long combos that lead to death. Or Ryu and Ken, that are allowed to cancel thier normals into specials and have auto turn around. Auto turn around in Smash literally eliminates the opponent's defensive options for no reason. Or Kazuya, that has so many infinites it's a wonder how he's still tournament legal. Or Steve, that's allowed to just build walls.

Mix-up characters who are safe on block, with minimal startup, maximum priority and can do it from multiple starting points. Any game that's online you end up having to predict people like Scorpion who have chain combo's from their teleport and you just end up waiting - and half the time they can meter burn to make it safe but also punish anyone who dared sit there and block it twice. Phoenix from UMVC3 has this, as did wesker and vergil *a bit*. When you're online mix-ups, even in a game with a dedicated block button, are running late, so now someone can just spam it infinitely and while not perfectly safe, they are going to get lucky enough times. Zero is like this too, who is much easier to handle offline. Game developers love to make these characters because it's flash, but there's so many of them who just have so much advantage those characters now HAVE to use it as part of their repertoire, and online games can't handle this. Dive kick characters get this, especially in Akuma in third strike since he can demon flip and cause confusion in a game where perfect overhead is hard to achieve and has a bunch of rules. Alex gets something like that too. A lot of these can be beaten, but in an online environment they go from "punishable" to "hard to punish" and it makes all the difference. Now you have to adjust for the threat - if these moves simply didn't have priority it'd be one thing, but often you can't anti-air or counter, you just have to block... and often times they are safe on block, or their punish window is small enough that being online makes that far more difficult. That's really the only thing that annoys me in any game, every other archetype I can handle because when something is overpowered, ok sure, it's overpowered. But when someone goes from "good" to "near safe" online it starts a lot of fights. I don't know how many times I started predicting someone's move and crushed this, to my satisfaction, to see that person just lose their mind bitterly as they realize the folly of having learned it - or when they go to use it offline they get wickedly punished. It's not just bad for people who have to go against it, but it's poisoning the well for people trying to learn online. You give people a gimmick that's just magic, their skill atrophies. So it really bothers me because even when you beat it soundly, players never know "why" and now their skillset is built on a tool that's wildly less effective offline. It's a shame.

@quantumpotato

Жыл бұрын

This makes me think of Millia in Guilty Gear.. completely oppressive.. balanced by her needing her Pin to maintain good oki, which you can stop her from recovering, her ground game is weak at midrange. Overpowered but in a fun way I think

Akuma and Geese would be fine in Tekken if they just didn't have some incredibly damaging combos. Literally if they increased their knock back in combos or nerfed their RA/RD damage, it would be so much more fun to fight them.

Instead of no 2d characters in Tekken 8 they'll just put GG AC+R Slayer in not even modeled just the sprite

Dont play fighting games but I would hate playing against zoners if the game gave me limited options to counter it like JP in Street Fighter 6 or Robocop/Reiko in Mortal Kombat

I think the worst archetype is the one where my opponent outplays me. Like, why should I be punished for not blocking?!?!?!?!

@fred1395durst

Жыл бұрын

I know right, the nerve on those people

My least favorite archetype in fighting games is the kind that has too good of a rushdown. I’m more of a defensive player, waiting for openings to punish my opponents and diving in when they whiff attacks, but when a character is so fast that it feels like they have no endlag on any move they throw out, and you have to guess like 5 50/50’s correct before a blockstring that seems entirely safe finally ends, it just feels like you’re watching your opponent play the game while you can’t. Best example I can think of is Beowulf in skullgirls. My second least favorite is the type that has an entire moveset that is deceptively long range. It’s incredibly difficult (for me at least) to find an opening on a character that can cover half the horizontal distance of the stage with one non-projectile attack. The most prolific examples I can think of are potemkin from guilty gear, Elena from street fighter 3 3rd strike, and byleth from smash bros.

Love how you showed 3rd strike Akuma and not 2nd impact akuma where he is completely out of control!

@ikedatike2533

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, second impact. He is absolutely insane. Don't even get me started with his shin version

A freind of mine hated grapplers. Im a glass cannon main. He couldn't figure out how to get away after "corner and throw".

I love the glass cannons characters even if 1/2 the time they're broken.

Ok that serious a dope mug

Whatever Deathstroke and Deadshot are in Injustice, just seeing Deadshot gameplay made me not wanna touch the sequel with a 10ft stick

Ah my zoning brother. I also am a big hater when it comes to characters that counter zoning or are hard to anti-air. When I make plays that just hard counter whatever I'm doing, I get frustrated more and more and it's all downhill from there.

I main Jade in MK9 cause we were only playing during the breaks when I was working in the video game industry so I didn't care much. In MKX I switch to Mileena because Jade was MIA. This is also when I started playing Online.. Then MK11 came in and Jade was back... I never received so many hate messages in such a short period of time hahaha

My least favourite characters are somewhat CAPCOM-Related: 1) - Picture a 5'0, 97 pounds tinkerbell - She has lightning-speed walkspeed - both dash and backdashes are long and fast - She has a 3f - She has an invincible reversal OR crazy meterless AA - Long Normals - BNB who deal both a load of damage and oki - Few Hit Combos which lead to no scale - They're in a game which everyone seemingly has low health - They hit like a Silverback Gorilla on Tren i.e: Karin and Mika 2) A Grappler which has Fireball, Walkspeed and Long Rage Command Grabs. Not only they do a better job at being grapplers by meta alone, but they have tools that a True Grappler hasn't: i.e: Laura, Mika VT2, G, It's a hassle to be a grappler main. It's even a bigger hassle to see other players using these hybrid characters and thriving without sacrificing what True Grapplers sacrifice, like mobility, long combos, fireballs, etc.

For me the question would yield very different responses depending on whether we're talking about characters I hate playing against or playing as.

@henriknobinder7395

Ай бұрын

But, I mean, I guess the defining feature of a character that I would dislike in either case could be described as "does not play the same game as the rest of the cast." Characters like Akuma in Tekken 7 or Sonya in MK11 that simply do not adhere to the rules that the rest of the roster are bound to. Given, I might end up playing them simply because they are strong options because of this, but I do not like it and truly do believe that the games would be better without those characters or with them heavily reworked. I feel like this description also fits all of the character archetypes described in this video. Whether it be that a character simply has every tool, no weakness, or behaves in a way alien to the game they're in, they can all be described as "playing a different game."

I think the worst archetypes are the ones that have REALLY good teleports like dahlsim. They’re fun to play with, but so freakin hard to beat

Really wanted that mug, too bad there's no shipping to my country

The mug is nice!

Mine's projectile characters, as in characters with projectile normals who's game plan is just shooting, like happy chaos, or Mina or that archer from GBFVS