as somebody who read the book series fully (sequels, prequels, and whatnot) the incest plot line is really funny. it’s somehow 100% not incest and 100% incest. Clary and Jace are not related, and Jace was adopted by Clary’s dad who was pretending to be his actual dad and to add ANOTHER layer, Clary’s genetic brother, Sebastian, considers Jace his brother. ON TOP OF THIS, they still get together since both Jace and Clary un-own Valentine, meaning technically it is but isn’t but is but isn’t but is but isn’t.

@noorlita

3 жыл бұрын

yes

@camelopardalis84

3 жыл бұрын

Not knowing whether Jace is a boy/man or a girl/woman and whether Clary is a boy/man or and girl/woman made reading this all the more confusing. (I know now, thanks to reading your comment in full, that Jace is a boy/man and strongly assume that Clary is a girl/woman. Because I know the world we live in therefore it is unlikely that the incest non-incest incest non-incest relationship is a gay incest non-incest incest non-incest relationship.)

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

I maintain that she specifically wrote it to be ridiculously convoluted completely on purpose. It was a calculated plan. First off it gives her deniability but also, by the time you're able to fully unravel wtaf is going on you have - conveniently - just utterly run out of energy to care about it anymore. It takes more work to be mad through it all than to just accept it as an obvious kink and move on.

@door5443

3 жыл бұрын

Alex Arviso they grew up separately

@door5443

3 жыл бұрын

Brynn yeah that would make a lot of sense, it’s even made fun of in later books

The Infernal Devices were also a pretty good Victorian steampunk urban fantasy. William Herondale was a suprisingly compelling Byronic figure.

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

Jace was like the failed warmup of that archetype. Will was just way better written, in large part because his over the top moodiness was performative and self-aware, whereas Jace was just like that. Also it helped that Tessa actually had a strong personality, unlike Clary, and their characters could build off each other.

@wander1139

3 жыл бұрын

@@brynnplant honestly after reading infernal devices I really couldn't go back to the mortal instruments just because the characters were just better in almost every way

@clara-km3fc

3 жыл бұрын

i really enjoyed the infernal devices but will herondale was a carbon copy of jace in a different time period

@wander1139

3 жыл бұрын

@@clara-km3fc I think I like will more because he has an actual reason for being an asshole while jace is just kinda is one for no real reason

@clara-km3fc

3 жыл бұрын

Wander 113 fair enough !

The Infernal Devices totally kick The Mortal Instruments' ass imo. Admittedly I read those ones roughly 10 years ago now (Jesus Christ) but I remember LOVING them. The characters, setting, plot, and dialogue were vastly, vastly superior. I felt like Cassandra Clare loved writing those books more than the rest of the books in the Shadow hunter universe. You can kind of tell while you're reading them how much fun she was having. Plus, no incest!

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

I want to add, it sucks about her rampant plagiarism. It really does. I think she ripped off a couple things in the Infernal Devices too (one scene was ridiculously similar to a scene from a popular anime I had happened to have seen. Not joking). And not to make excuses, but her plagiarism notwithstanding, she is still able to string together really good stories - sometimes - which is not something you can fake. Unless TID were ghostwritten or something, I feel they are an example of an above average writer. Not much originality or imagination at all, sure, but an ability to be really compelling nonetheless. A mixed bag for sure but I got a lot out of it even so.

@nervousshark9130

3 жыл бұрын

@@brynnplant I feel like TID are an upgraded version of TMI, some characters are simmilar, some plot developments are too, but I remember liking it SO MUCH MORE than the original series, and still remember some of it altho it's been ages since I read them

@eveningstarinthebluedarksky789

3 жыл бұрын

Agree. (also, same icon! 😄)

@alexjames7144

3 жыл бұрын

In some ways yes but the gay baiting for three books, the basically incest again with Emma and will combined with the bad fanfiction alternate world thing just ruined the whole thing. I'd have loved it if will and Emma weren't a thing, kitty was actually allowed to happen and the Mak love triangle thing got more focus

@urleftfoot3769

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexjames7144 who’s Emma? Ire1d this series and I don remember there being an Emma - or a gay couple for that matter

Jace didn't just pick fights with any old strangers. He went to a werewolf bar, made racial slurs against werewolves, and goaded them into attacking so he'd have an excuse to fight them... ...New theory: Jace is Liam Neeson.

@joza_1850

3 жыл бұрын

Idk who is that, but Jace is a shit

@h5y878

3 жыл бұрын

Isn't his self-destructive mind, like a whole plot they unlesh when he tears his dude attitude down?

crazy how when i was like in 9th grade i vividly remember reading this series cus i was only invested in malec and i hated clary and jace being together so bad

@marl3ymarl3y86

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t have anything to say I just also have the same pfp of the paper cat on my other accounts and thought it was funny that you do too.

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

Clary and Jace are the worst part and Magnus is the best. He even made Alec likeable eventually though sheer force of good characterization.

@toyosibee.mp3

3 жыл бұрын

God MOOD

@robertgronewold3326

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, there is good reason why Magnus appears in alll the other books and is continuously enjoyable.

@Spooky_l3xxi

3 жыл бұрын

Omg sameeee I fell in and out of the mortal instruments but stayed because of malec... And also because I want to finish this series to read the dark artifices

The thing about the Clary and Jace brother-sister plot in TMI is that it wasn't meant to be another of Cassandras admittedly strange inclination towards writing gross incesty stories for no reason. It was about an abuser further destroying his victim, because he sees that his walls are beginning come down and he starts loving and accepting himself and others. So Valentine tells him that the one person he is in love with is his sister in order to even further break Jace down and making him feel like he is wrong and broken to be able to control him. TMI might be considered the weakest installment in the Shadowhunter Chronicles with a pretty weird main romance ngl, but keep in mind this was Cassandras first book, so obviously compared to TID or TLH its not gonna seem anything special.

@varvarasamman4513

3 жыл бұрын

But still Malec is pretty much the best part of the whole series i was never too fangirly over Clace

@ritiaggarwal995

3 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY

@fightingmedialounge519

3 жыл бұрын

Except he would still have someone who loves and cares about him, so not a great plan.

About Magnus and Alec, the author actually revealed Alec was loosely based off of an old gay friend who killed himself. In Book 5 of the second trilogy, Alec is downright awful and Magnus' his distance is understandable but infuriating nontheless. That they got back together kinda felt undeserved yet I'm started to come around on them again various books later. Another romance I really like was Simon and Isabelle. Their relationship was a slow-burn with them only getting together for good (though they're not married yet) during Simon's spin-off after the two trilogies. They're such a refreshing couple compared to most other Clare pairings.

@rosaliebarvik1960

3 жыл бұрын

I agree Malec is hella toxic in tmi, but they get a lot better in the dark artifices once Alec grows up more.

@inferiorinferno8859

3 жыл бұрын

@@rosaliebarvik1960 Hence why I'm saying I'm starting to come around to Malec once again.

@anska7475

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest, what I like about Malec partly is that it starts out as pretty awful. At first they are only lovers and mostly care about themselves, at the end of the second trilogy they start to care about each other, work to make their relationship work and become friends as well as lovers. That‘s a nice arc.

@Miramiyami

Жыл бұрын

yeah sizzy was and is and always will be satisfying. except the spinoff i hate that whole arc but not bc its bad just bc its painful to watch izzy struggle when she knows simon doesnt know her.

Actually about vampires and religion in Clare's work, you're wrong. Religious artifacts don't work on vampires actually, only if the vampire was religious as a human, their old fate will reject them. Simon is only affected by Jewish religious artefacts like the Star of David because he was Jewish when he was alive, Raphael couldn't stand crosses because he was Catholic. Also, they can say God, but they basically need to discard the belief vampirism is damnation in order to do so.

@briarrosegael2015

3 жыл бұрын

So atheist vampires are supreme? Lol I’ve always found that cowardly in a cake and eat it to way.

@Mecharnie_Dobbs

3 жыл бұрын

It's a thing that seems like a justification for prejudice against vampires but turns out to be caused by the vampire's own internalized prejudices. That's what it sounds like. I've only just heard of it.

@inferiorinferno8859

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mecharnie_Dobbs That's exactly what appears to be the case.

@NathanTAK

3 жыл бұрын

​@@briarrosegael2015 Atheist vampires are vulnerable to explanations of why vampires aren't scientifically possible

@briarrosegael2015

3 жыл бұрын

Naþan Ø Ah but wouldn’t they be scientifically possible by the mere fact they exist? Unless I’m wrong Science is made up of a position called methodological naturalism, and thus vampires that exist could be observed using that method. It’s also why ‘supernatural’ as a word is a misnomer, if tomorrow a demon comes and punches me in the face that was a natural, not supernatural occurrence.

Disappointed that this wasn't a review of the original Ron/Ginny incest fanfic. 2/10.

@whyareallmynamestaken1382

3 жыл бұрын

Thats- That's a thing?? God I hate the internet

@crowthewicked8344

3 жыл бұрын

You gotta find it first

@micha9907

3 жыл бұрын

@@whyareallmynamestaken1382 yeah lmao it was written by cassandra clare herself

@bdoug

3 жыл бұрын

please stop... i can only take so much

@aj_814

3 жыл бұрын

perhaps we'll get a readthrough of the mortal instruments source material sometime in the future

I love this series despite it being so basic and dodgy

@matheusrudzevicius6448

3 жыл бұрын

It’s basic but also very fun to read, like a big magic soap opera, huge guilty pleasure book

@forwhy8723

3 жыл бұрын

@@matheusrudzevicius6448 yes definitely agree

@aboxintheblack9530

3 жыл бұрын

Same

@aboxintheblack9530

3 жыл бұрын

It’s great pulp.

@RF-mc8cx

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely same.

21:03 you're right. i think using fantasy races or supernatural powers vs muggles as a narrative to discuss racism doesn't work well. Being scared of a x men or wizard makes sense because they are dangerous. The fear is rational. Hating another human based on skin colour is absurd. The difference between humans is superficial.

@FreyrDev

3 жыл бұрын

As a counterpoint, many racists (at least historically, maybe not as much nowadays) did use that rhetoric that black people were dangerous and violent, so while they don't have that actual reality of danger there is a perceived danger which one of the reasons why racism has lasted so long and is still ingrained in many people's ideology today

@lysergidedaydream5970

3 жыл бұрын

Furthermore, most racists don't think that the differences between races are superficial, so not only is it a silly euphemism, it is also a potentially harmful one.

@tonym.8069

3 жыл бұрын

dune agreed, while one can argue the lengths people went to justify their racism or ethnicism, it was usually with their race being superior and the other races inferior based off minor things or major misunderstandings. Like you said if wizards or mutants were real it would be prejudice or justified prejudice. For me for my story I have two ancient "races" that were at odds with each other because of their physical differences as well as how they use magic. One are more like Christmas elves in height and looks while the other are something akin to Orcs meet saquatches or the like. Either way the racism works because while they basically come from the same original race the differences culturally and physically put them at odds with each other. However they do eventually come back together as a new race, akin to what happened evolutionarily with humanoids.

@angelikaskoroszyn8495

3 жыл бұрын

For me the most problematic aspect of Harry Potter series were house elves as a metaphor of slavery. I liked how Hermione was unable to force elves to become free. What I didn't like was that the whole quasi slavery has never been solved. It was like wizards owning conscious creatures was only bad when the wizards were abusive. Malfoys were evil so elves were happy to run away. Hogwards threated them well so no one even considered the possibility of freedom Why? Is it because they knew how dangerous for them the world outside the school was? Or maybe because they were inherently submissive towards wizards? I know what my headcanon is but I'm not sure what Rowling tried to tell

@jeice13

3 жыл бұрын

It can make different points. If you show the discrimination in this kind of way, particularly in things like xmen, it can make the point that difference doesnt vallidate discrimination in general. If you have no differences you cant make that point as easily and it is a much stronger position than just saying that people are the same (especially when certain cultural differences could then be accepted as basis for discrimination)

OSCAR IS SO CUTE

@r1ddhima

3 жыл бұрын

most effective sponsorship ever

@camelopardalis84

3 жыл бұрын

And persuasive.

@joanagomes9272

3 жыл бұрын

I felt his message in my heart

"And the incest. Can't forget about the incest." That's a hard one to forget, yes.

I think this was a good analysis of these three books in The Mortal Instruments, but I think it doesn't do the series justice not to mention that there are three more books in this series that are worlds better. The characters and plot of the second half of the series are more defined (we finally see why Jace is so moody as well) and even though some of the plot lines aren't the best (like the continuance of the incest through Sebastian ugh) there's a lot more heart in my opinion in the second half, as well as better relationships like Simon and Isabelle which is such a nice slow burn. But The Mortal Instruments is absolutely the worst of any of the series in the Shadowhunter series (I'd love to see an analysis on The Infernal Devices because those are a lot better in my opinion) and I'm still always going to be uncomfortable about the incest storyline.

@inferiorinferno8859

3 жыл бұрын

Personally, I disliked Clace heavily, because the both of them are annoying, but I loved the slow burn between Simon and Isabelle. It wasn't the typical insta-love and they actually try to put some effort in their relationship. I've read The Shadowhunters Academy too (in which Simon is the lead) and that alone convinced me they should have been the main pairing.

@sammyruncorn4165

3 жыл бұрын

@@inferiorinferno8859 Yes. Why not make the "Side-Character" the main lead? Like... for once, we don't follow the "hero" on his/ her journey, but their friend. You could make such nice character exploration with that. More fear, different fear (of losing their friend, of a different world they're not part of), maybe jealousy (of their gifts, their status. Like making a story about the "loser" instead of the Magic-Power-Person every time.

@casswritesstuff

3 жыл бұрын

@@inferiorinferno8859 Oh yeah I've never really liked Clace, though I do think they got a bit better in the other two series. Isabelle and Simon are much more realistic and better. (and even though I love Will/Jem/Tessa, I have to say that relationship also moved a bit fast)

@teadrinker214

3 жыл бұрын

this was such a long time ago that i maybe don't remember it clearly, but i really disliked the second trilogy and found the plot points boring, and really didn't add anything? it might just be me but i remember it being considered a cash grab by cassandra clare in the book community? for me, the 4-6 books in the series completely turned me off Cassandra clare, probably because of clace and other poor plot points.

@inferiorinferno8859

3 жыл бұрын

@@teadrinker214 I do think about Clace that they were at their worst during the 2nd trilogy so I can agree with you on that. Also, Book 4 kinda felt like a filler but I liked Book 5 and 6.

I've read most of Cassandra Clare's Shadowhunter books including all of the Mortal Instruments and I can fully say that this is probably her worst series within the Shadowhunter world. The Infernal Devices for instance is about a million times better written.

@Hibari787

3 жыл бұрын

I loved these books in middle school, then infernal devices came out and I realized how weird the main series kinda is. I never really put the incest together until someone brought the books up on TikTok. I literally suggested this to my aunt to read, since she loves fantasy books, I literally hate myself since I put two to two together.

The thing that always bothered me about the books is that the main point of the books is how downworlders should be treated like decent human beings and they should all cooperate and shit -except that is told from the pov of the "opressors", all of whom not only were raised by the people actively harming downworlders and shared their views but who are arguably far less interesting than any downworlder we met and so it makes for a very boring pov. Not to mention, they say that the Lightwoods and Clary don't mistreat them but they always need their help without anything in return, like Magnus was just there to solve everyone's fucking problems and they never help him back until the sixth book, like ???

1. The thing she thrusts down the demons throat was not her phone, it was a sensor, a shadowhunter tool used to to detect demons. 2. She doesn't eat food in the fairy court. The fairys trick her. A fairy pricks her finger and she puts that finger in her mouth. That might not have been the most cautious thing to do, but it is a very understandable reaction and not something that she would have known to be bad in the situation.

Absolutely devastated that you failed to mention the most important part of these books: the main character has a pin that says "otaku wench." Also, there's a comic book storyline where Doctor Strange commits genocide against all vampires, which means that villain of these books is basically Doctor Strange.

I'm the first to admit that the The Mortal Instruments has huge flaws but I will forever be grateful for their flawed existence since its thanks to them that I really started to get into reading and developed my interest in books

People mention the Clary/Jace and Clary/Sebastian thing but never Alec's crush on Jace. Obviously they aren't related but they were raised as brother's (this is especially prevalent in the show, so much to the point that Isabelle compares Alec and Jace's relationship to Alec and herself). It's obviously not as big of a deal and doesn't go as far as the relationships with Clary, but it's worth a mention.

@clairebradley2890

3 жыл бұрын

I was just about to make a comment about this! I read these books probably about 7 or 8 years ago now, and if I remember correctly Jace didn’t treat Alec very well either. Like you said, it’s gross, but still not as gross as the jace/clary thing.

@sodapopp4367

3 жыл бұрын

But Alec was already like 11/12 when he met Jace, and in the first book Isabelle specifically says that Jace is NOT her brother. I'm guessing Alec had a crush on Jace from the jump 🤷🏽 But oddly enough they ARE actually related; you find out in TID that they have the same great-something grandfather

@nafeesahassan5469

3 жыл бұрын

they were like 12 when they met tho

@xLiLlyx98

10 күн бұрын

Not surprising coming from the author that admitted on Twitter that she ships Damon and Stefan from vampire diaries and upon further inquiry said "that they're brothers makes it even better" soooo... Yeah

I actually like Mortal Instruments. It's like junk food. It's not great food, but I would lie if I said I don't occasionally indulge myself :). The other series as well. It's easy to read, engaging and the plot moves forward at a decent pace and there are some pretty decent emotional stakes on occasion. I also really like most of the side characters, who seem to have personality and agency on their own.

There are a lot of books I hate, but the usual go-to that comes to mind is Divergent because of how derivative it is, and how poorly is executes those borrowed elements. TMI usually doesnt come to mind, but that's because it's so... nothing. It's doesnt spark any feeling in me, and that's even worse. At least I can use Divergent as a reference for how not to write a story, but TMI is so generic and bland with plot beats that are shallow an unexplored. Funny enough, the one part I like was in the first book when this one dude recounts the tale of how he became a werewolf, and his story is infinitely more interesting that the novel he was in.

@destinyblade1167

3 жыл бұрын

he was the best character

@goldensky1345

3 жыл бұрын

I'm on the third book right now, and I'm enjoying it, but I keep thinking that the story of Valentines circle sounds so much more interesting than the story we got.

@juliannechen9094

3 жыл бұрын

Luke is cool. Cassandra Clare is planning on writing a prequel about the circle.

@Me-vn3gz

3 жыл бұрын

Fair warning, that happens a lot in the series, like in all of them. I’ve also read the dark artifices which is pretty much the same except the equivalent of jace is the girl in the pairing and they’re parabatai so the incest plot point lives on in that form. The only reason I kept reading was because all of the characters of the other series make appearances and I wanted to see what happened to them, etc. People say that the prequels are better but from what I heard she kind of keeps making the same books over and over again so I don’t know if I’ll read it.

@juliannechen9094

3 жыл бұрын

@Kopal Gupta I personally think he is a combination of Lupin and Sirius

You do realise "revolves around characters being granted magic powers and hunting demons" could also describe much of the Bible.

For me the biggest problem about the series was that they don't actually hunt demons. I was so excited for an action packed, fun demon hunting book and I got like three hundred pages of romance with jace and clary -- two characters I didn't really like

@rottencandy2675

2 жыл бұрын

and demon's weren't even antagonists in either arc for the Mortal Instruments. Also demons are poorly explained. Like if most demons are stupid, what's the deal with the blue-haired one at the very start? (I actually kinda liked him...)

As a big fan of all the series in the shadowhunter world, I must say The Mortal Instruments is the weakest, at least the first part/trilogy. All the other series are SOO much better in my opinion mostly because all of the "incest". The incest goes back and forth so many times during the whole TMI. The fact that Sebastian, Clary's real brother sort of want to be with her too and make himself, Clary and Jace some weird family incest I don't know what. But Seb was a really good and convincing villain in the later trilogy and has a rather good build-up in City of Glass I won't reread TMI in the near future (I've only read it once). I probably wouldn't recommed others to start with it, or warn them a bit about the incest warnings. Better to read the others and later read about the original characters to see their backstory

@cerealissoup5820

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, The Infernal Devices is soooo much better

@christiangay793

3 жыл бұрын

There are still such references sometimes, like when Tessa went to the ball disguised as Jessamine and danced with her brother and they almost kissed. Tessa was clearly disgusted, but still, I'm not digging how much she returns to incest.

@cerealissoup5820

3 жыл бұрын

@@christiangay793 Yeah that is pretty weird

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

@@christiangay793 oh jeez I forgot about that part. I just told someone "don't worry there's nothing even close to incest in this other series she wrote" and now I feel like that claim needs to be qualified lmao. Man this author is exhausting

I really want to know your take on Red Queen but I will probably feel stupid afterwards

@jamesrutley1009

3 жыл бұрын

I second the motion.

@stefanielee9111

3 жыл бұрын

I loved that series but hehe my perspective on it is prob gonna be ruined if he makes a video on it lmaooo

@jamesrutley1009

3 жыл бұрын

@@stefanielee9111 Yup

Though not the same series I was DUPED into reading "The Clockwork Angel" from the same author. The cover, title, and synopsis had me (a teenage boy) thinking this would be a steampunk adventure thing. Only to have to read a weird romance thing with the main character being kidnapped and tortured. Best thing is it was for class and I had to have a presentation about it.

@dianasaur2442

3 жыл бұрын

What class MADE you read the clockwork angel and present it??

@squid1481

3 жыл бұрын

@@dianasaur2442 it was just a regular English class. I was like 13, we were supposed to pick a book, read it, and do a presentation about it. So I could have picked any book but I was DUPED I say

@andrewdiaz3529

3 жыл бұрын

@@squid1481 you also could've lied and made up a better plot for presentation

@kathessler4090

3 жыл бұрын

wait that's so funny tho did you rant about it to your class

@RF-mc8cx

3 жыл бұрын

I can see why the average teenage boy wouldn't like it! There is more to the plot than just romance though.

These are and always will be my guilty pleasure books. I know they are seriously flawed and yet have such a good time reading them. The ID series is much better for sure

I kept getting it mixed up with 'Mortal Engines' in my head. Especially as the prequel series is called 'Infernal Devices' and that's also the name of the third 'Mortal Engines' book.

@ultantuffy1194

3 жыл бұрын

This confused me as well, considering the villain of those books is named Valentine too.

I'm brazilian (native portuguese speaking if you don't know) so i read this series translated first in my middle/late teens. I always remembered as very good but never reread until some years after (in 2019 with 27 years and more than a decade later) i tried to read in english the series because was reading books of my childhood/teen in the original language. Ohhh boy, the translator has done some serious miracles with Clare's work. After some point i just came back to brazilian editions and finished the book series in portuguese. I hated Clary's narration and Cassandra's narrative. She has some pretty stupid analogys here but i put as a first work thing and read another of her series (clockwork something...) that was even worst this time the translator amazing work don't has saved the trash.

@kkaassist

3 жыл бұрын

ive had a similar experience, though i really enjoyed the prequel series (granted, i was 13 when i read it but still) big kudos to the polish translator too

@riley8385

3 жыл бұрын

This same thing happened to me with Harry Potter. It's amazing how much the spanish translator improved on Rowling's prose.

@tietokone8796

3 жыл бұрын

@@riley8385 i had he opposite experience. Tried to read Harry Potter in german, hated it. Came back to the books a couple years later and with better english skills and loved it.

I first read the TMI books like... 7 years ago when I was 13 years old. Me and my now best friends actually bonded over them and were OBSESSED with them. We of course grew out of it, but earlier this year we jokingly decided to reread them as a kind of distraction from the pandemic and all that what was going on, and do a “book club” type thing. We are on book 6 now. We definitely don’t take the books seriously and mostly make fun of them, as well as discuss the flaws of the storyline (which we just blatantly ignored when we were younger), but it really has been a great distraction. As flawed as these books are, I have to admit that they will always have a special place in my heart

That Magnus/Alec age gap though 😬

The Mortal Instruments was ok, but the Infernal Devices are simply phenomenal. Every single character in the Infernal Devices is 10x more fleshed out than those in The Mortal Instruments. It also does so much more world-building and focuses on politics. The male characters aren't macho and cocky, they are varied and have actual motivation.

The Mortal Instruments is one of my favorite YA series, and I still consume Cassandra Clare’s books nowadays. While I agree with all the flaws and strong points that you mention in the video, another important aspect of the Shadowhunter chronicles as whole is that it’s ever growing cast of characters is conformed by people of different races, nationalities and sexualities, and even more, all of this characters feel like actual characters and not caricatures or stereotypes.

I think the latter part of the series (4-6) are fairly more interesting in the grand scheme of things

You should definitely read the spin-offs!!!!!! CC got a lot better as she went on, the infernal devices is one of my fave series ever even though I hated TMI.

I would recommend a change of title, into shadowhunter books are fine or something, because The Mortal Instruments is most definitely not fine, the original Mortal Instruments that is.

@jacklemm1518

3 жыл бұрын

The last half of TMI blows the first half out of the water

@corneliastreet2491

3 жыл бұрын

There are 18 main series shadowhunter books so that would get confusing.

I didn't realize people meme on these books but I suppose it makes sense, I definitely remember enjoying them as a kid. I did like the Infernal Devices even more and I wonder how well that would hold up now.

@robertgronewold3326

3 жыл бұрын

I read them a short while ago (again) and they are still excellent. Plus I'm rather excited because the BBC bought the rights to make a television show. Fingers crossed that it's actually good.

@gracie9658

3 жыл бұрын

@@robertgronewold3326 Another ? Do you have a source ? They messed up twice now.

@robertgronewold3326

3 жыл бұрын

@@gracie9658 Just Google it. The articles for it are from back in May.

The thing about The Shadowhunters Chronicles, and the TV spin off I might add, is that they age like a fine wine. It’s not the best at first but as time moves on and the series matured, it turns into something wonderful.

James: hi Oscar, how’s it going Oscar: James: are you here to talk about Campfire software and what a good deal it is for writers? Oscar: father, I am a dog, and I can not speak James: really? Oscar: why are you like this

@RF-mc8cx

3 жыл бұрын

Since I've been recently reading another Shadowhunters book, in which the main character James's parabatai has a dog named Oscar Wilde, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT JAMES HERONDALE FOR A SECOND AND I WAS SO CONFUSED

i'm really glad that you brought up that point about the racism allegories it doesn't work as an allegory if those being targeted are also shown as being legitimate threats to those doing the targeting, because then, as you said, Valentine's reasoning has a fucked up point wrt self defense it's something that a lot of fantasy messes up on and ends up subtly reinforcing racism rationalizations

I've only read the main six books and the prequels and for anyone who wants to pick this series up, the prequels were better than the original six books.

@mavenlives4279

3 жыл бұрын

the sequels are too

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely.

@patiencekillz

3 жыл бұрын

The dark artifices are too

"They are not that bad" yes. I have hated this series, esp. TMI, for a while but as an overall story universe, it is still better than most book series in YA (pre-2012). The other series which came after get slightly better too.

@semekiizuio

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, I think the most redeeming part is the universe which is bigger then just one place setting and a limited set of characters

@Aurelian369_

Жыл бұрын

@@semekiizuio shadowhunters are so cool in concept tbh, sad to hear TMI sucks ass. I’ve read the first book in The Infernal Devices and it’s actually surprisingly good, probably because it has an actually decent setting and characters who I give a shit about.

I honestly think it’s all pretty damn good, I know people hate when people say this but every book gets better and better as it goes, even the novella are worth a read!

Because in the wouldve had to involve themselves with the Crusades and wars between mundanes. For the record I came to the Mortal Instruments for Malec.

I'm pretty sure Cassandra Clare's fanfiction was DracoxGinny, not RonxGinny - which is why Jace comes off as such an asshole in the first books

@emma7933

3 жыл бұрын

I think she wrote two different fanfics, one of which was RonxGinny and one of which was GinnyxDraco.

@arizonaasher

3 жыл бұрын

No, the fan fiction entitled The Mortal Instruments was Ron/Ginny, and it wasn't a serial numbers filed off situation. It's not like Fifty Shades of Grey. She just used the same title twice. Cassie Cla(i)re wrote a bunch of fics, most of them Draco-centric. Jace is essentially her version of Draco, but her versions of HP characters didn't have much to do with the source material in the first place. Fun fact: Cla(i)re was originally a Harry/Hermione shipper at a time when the great R/Hr vs H/Hr ship war was raging. If you know anything about that period of fandom history, you know that the Harry/Hermione shippers were infamous for saying awful (often classist) things about the Weasleys. When she first published The Mortal Instruments (the Ron/Ginny fic, which -- another fun fact -- was beta'd by YA author Holly Black), a lot of the Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny shippers assumed she was trolling. They thought she was just writing about Ron being in love with his sister because she hated those characters; though, I think, by that point, CC had given up on the ship war.

@scarletleader5420

3 жыл бұрын

@@arizonaasher oh, okay. Didn't know that. I just knew that Jace was inspired by Draco.

James would love Michael Dante DiMartino’s Genius series. Like his work with the Last Airbender franchise, the Genius books have their own unique magic system based around art and the characters are fun.

I remember being a huge fan of the books when I was a kid. It was a lot of escapism for a tween who devoured books. When the movie came out, I snuck out of middle school to drive an hour to the only theater showing it. The Infernal Devices is miles better than TMI, though. Tessa is smart and relatable, and Jem and Will both have complex personalities. I wish TID took off instead of TMI

Malec, a good relationship from back to front? Love them both, but there was a serious, serious yikes from Alec in book 5 😬. Those who have read the entire series will know what I mean.

@josephdavis9234

3 жыл бұрын

The part where Alec tried to kill Magnus?

@teethviii7358

3 жыл бұрын

and peggy I don’t mean to start anything, but what do you mean compared to every other gay male ship??? because like I know of a lot of good books with gay male pairings with way healthier relationships where one character doesn’t try to get the other one to die after a couple of months of dating?? and yeah all relationships have their flaws and can’t be perfect but I don’t think trying to basically get your partner killed is just a flaw???

@kathessler4090

3 жыл бұрын

I don't remember anything other than vague feelings of anger. Wasn't Alec being really unfair and annoying and then at the end Magnus apologized and they got together? Even though Magnus didn't do anything wrong??

@apinkchameleon

3 жыл бұрын

Kat Hessler He was, but Magnus was also super distant and never actually told Alec anything about his life

@RF-mc8cx

3 жыл бұрын

To be honest I thought that part was HUGELY out of character for Alec, as part of the reason Magnus fell for him is revealed to be because he didn't act as though he was the most important thing in Magnus's life. So I just choose to believe it was Camille acting through Alec because honestly? It makes more sense. The one good thing that came out of that plotline was The Voicemails Of Magnus Bane.

Unpopular opinion, catcher in the rye is trash and if I didn’t have to read it for school, I would’ve dropped it and set it on fire

@randomtinypotatocried

3 жыл бұрын

I tried reading it for fun and I don't get why people love this book so much.

@gracie9658

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomtinypotatocried I haven't read it but I read an answer to a similar question a few days ago so thought I'd share : www.goodreads.com/book/show/5107.The_Catcher_in_the_Rye# It's in the "Popular Answered Questions" if you slightly scroll down.

@kathessler4090

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomtinypotatocried I had to read it for school and I hated Holden so much he was so insufferable. As a teenager reading from the point of view of a "teenager" I found him so immature and like not mentally okay. I just wanted him to get a therapist. I was horrified to find that people in my class related to him. That's kind of like relating to the joker in my book... you're not supposed to relate to him

Sebastian revived in the second trilogy was arguably an even better villain. Like Valentine, Sebastian doesn't just sits back either, even when he gets his army he's still there on small raids. True enough, he has incestous feelings towards Clary too, but later it's basically implied the last remaining bit of his humanity cared for her, and the demon blood made the most horrible interpretation of his brotherly feelings. In the final battle, Clary stabs him with a sword she upgraded with a rune, and it burns his demon blood away. You finally get to meet the humanity beneath the monster, and he actually seems like a caring boy whose final acts were saving Clary and the gang from his own army and apologizing to her and his mom for the awful person he's been. He was relieved to die, and be free of the nightmare he lived. The reason he died wasn't even his army, it was the fact the demon blood had eaten such a huge chunk of his soul and he knew he didn't had much time left. Also, in the sequel series, it turns out the Fey Queen was pregnant with Sebastian's kid. Emma, Sebastian's kid and her love interest Julian end up in an alternative dimension (called Thule) that closely resembles their own but Clary's dead and Sebastian rules the world. Sebastian's kid ended up earlier in this alternate dimension, and Sebastian actually does better as a dad in certain areas then Valentine, despite the fact its implied his soul was already completely burnt up in that dimension(Valentine VS Reginald Hargreeves anyone?). Another thing note-worthy of Thule!Sebastian is the reaction to the news of how he died on Earth, which is literally the only moment I can remember him being described with having a pained, regretful look at all when on demon blood. I know I made the Reginal Hargreeves joke already, but in a way Sebastian was Luther on demon blood. Experimented on by their daddies, loyal to said abusive daddies, don't have much of a social life outside of their duties and thus zero friends. As well as from the small bit we have seen of Sebastian's humanity, he seems like a caring, protective brother whose final actions were doing the right thing (that sounds like Luther too). Sebastian was a competent character, both with and without a soul.

@marirezende8478

3 жыл бұрын

Sebastian is years better than Valentine

Tbh as a someone who read the entire series (sequels,prequels, basically every cassie clare book), i think TMI is pretty good. Yeah, the clary and jace situation was pretty confusing but like it's interesting even though i personally like The infernal devices way more.

I've read a series much like the Infernal Devices/Mortal Instrument series called the Parasol Protectorate. It's a really interesting read as it's involved with the same steampunk aesthetic. I read the mangas alongside it and kind of enjoyed them (maybe more so than the real books). They were a bit odd once in a while, but you should give it a read if you haven't. Would love to see your reaction and possibly a review on the story building, mythical creatures, and the plot as a whole.

@christinapatton3551

3 жыл бұрын

Thos books were so fun to read! I didn't know there were mangas for it

@gotalotofpencils

3 жыл бұрын

@@christinapatton3551 Yeah! The first book is called Soulless and it's so much fun to read.

James, we need more reviews with your dog in them. He's so cute!

I always tell people to start with the prequel series Infernal Devices. It's really a fantastic trilogy.

"...maybe Mel Gibbson." 😳😂💀

As someone who is currently rereading Cirque du Freak by Darren Shan, I love that you mentioned the Demonata series by Darren Shan which I will be rereading/finishing next( never finished the whole series).

Just with the intro you hit the nail in the coffin for me! That book series really hits all the wrongs buttons even thought I kinda like the world it prescents... You are a good booktuber dude.

A different angle and background for James is so jarring

Thank you so much for covering this series. I love hearing your input on books. When do you think you’ll ever look at the other three in the mortal instruments series? XD

To anyone reading this, the incest thing is actually pretty accurate, since relatives that were separated at a young age and don't recognize each other tend to feel extremely atracted to each other. I'm not too surr if they're actually siblings or not, since i haven't finished the series yet and don't want to be too spoiled here, but if they are then now you know why

my friend in elementary school was obsessed with this series and got me into it too. i think i only read the first trilogy, and i don't actually remember if i finished the third book or not. i was about 11-12 at the time, so to my little child brain the concepts were super cool, the writing was amazing, and the questionable parts weren't that big of a problem. definitely didn't care about clary or jace though, i was way more into the side characters.

@stonalisa3729

Жыл бұрын

I feel as though I only liked these books because I was young. But I should have understood why it wasn’t better than Percy Jackson or even Harry Potter

I like the mortal instruments 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ I mean, i’m not going to read it once a month, but eh, it’s an entertaining read.

@user-sg3wp2qs2b

3 жыл бұрын

fair enough.

You made a pretty Neil Cicierega-y impression on me at the very beginning of that ad for ... a black dog, I guess.

Read the first book. Lost it with the vampire motorcycles that run on demon energy instead of gas but for some reason still need a tank so that someone can put holy water in them.

I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on the "Daughter of Smoke and Bone" trilogy by Laini Taylor for your next YA paranormal romance review. The prose is purple, the heroine is a total Mary Sue, the love interest is basically just Zuko as an angel, the muggle sidekicks are annoying, and the plot is *wild*. But there were some cool ideas and scenes in them, dammit. Taylor at least tried to be more than a straight Twilight ripoff.

@Aurelian369_

2 жыл бұрын

that might be one of the most generic YA book titles I’ve ever heard

The first 9 books in the series (the second trilogy of the mortal instruments and the infernal devices) are kinda where it shine because it leads to this conclusion

That Wheel of Time joke got a hearty chuckle out me

@andrewdiaz3529

3 жыл бұрын

That sad wolf boy does love a grimace. And a forest...

I forgot this series existed

I nearly gave up on the series until I read the third book. The series redeemed itself in City of Glass.

I think the Infernal Devices prequel series had better storytelling, although the protagonist was a terribly passive Mary Sue

@brynnplant

3 жыл бұрын

Huh! I loved Tessa. She was way more of a dynamic main character than Clary/ other Clare protagonists in general and actually had a defined personality. She started off a bit uptight, but I think that was intentional. Its funny how people get such different impressions.

I think over time I've come to enjoy the Shadowhunter books for what they are, I think what you said about good and bad aspects balancing each other is true. The thing that will forever bug me is that some of the later books are actually kind of good, but there is no way to recommend them since in order to get to them you have to go through the original series first and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

@pau8957

3 жыл бұрын

agree!!!!! the infernal devices are great books and luckily i think anyone can read those without even knowing that TMI exists because they are set like 200 hundred years in the past ? however with TDA it gets way more complicated bc its TMI's sequel series... sighs

@martabarrales3112

3 жыл бұрын

Pau yes! I guess it’s because TID works more as a separate series than a prequel, at least for me. Dark Artifices always seemed to me like an improved version of TMI. They’re my favorite books in the series, it’s a shame that since is a direct sequel it can’t really be read separately.

Hmm ... I read the series and the best book of them in my opinion definitly was "Tales of the shadow market" because it actually fleshed out Brother Zacharia and some much needed personality traits of some side characters and had some compelling storys that actually dont make sense ( a little bit ) but they were at least fun and interesting to read ( for the most part ) with good exposition. Honestly , it was better and a lot less confusing to read through than some of the other books like the one where suddenly multiverses and parallel dimensions hit out of the blue and had too many confusing plot lines and relationsships which ( with the exception of Clary and Jace and Emma with Julian ) never go anywhere or forther character developement , but reading about Magnus and his fiancee finally having a gay wedding was the saving grace .

Normal people writing fanfics: Usually a few chapters Mortal instruments writer: 500 000 words take it or leave it

I have a love-hate relationship with these books. The first time I was quite confused, but I ended up actually mostly enjoying it. I never actually believed Jace and Clary were sibling because it made no fucking sense, so to be real I never really ever cared about it because I was like "whatever". By the time I finished it, I considered myself a fan of the Shadowunter universe. I stopped at Lord of Shadows. Now that I know about the author's past and all the questionable things she has done, I've decided to not support her and stop reading the books. The Infernal Devices was leagues better, I was absolute trash for it and I would actually reread it. To be honest, I still like the characters, especially Magnus, and I think the premise and mythology of the Shadowhunters was interesting.

Ok the dark artifices is the best trilogy in the shadowhunters saga & i will not take any requests. Also your dog is adorable

Shit man, my entire beef with the mortal instruments series is exactly how they cop out of the incest subplot

Yo WTF?! I just got done watching this movie about a few hours ago. And was thinking of how the book was really liked 😂😂

You got me Subbed on the Demonata! The doggo cam/ad was adorable

i would love to see a video about the demonata series (though i realize you just said why that would be difficult). those books made quite an impression on me, but i've never heard anyone else talk about it!

I always remember that this author wrote Harry Potter incest fanfiction and will never get over it because she then wrote a series that involves incest as a plot device/ (her kink trope?).

@stonalisa3729

Жыл бұрын

Has to be. Same title as the fan fic.

Clary can't create Portals faster then others, she is the only one capable of creating them on her own. You need warlock magic for Portals actually, but Clary doesn't. Portals were in the Shadowhunterverse, invented around the Victorian era when the Accords had only recently became a thing.

I read the first and part of the second one when I was about 12 years old. They made me quit reading YA for a while. It was the incesty stuff that made me uncomftable. I know they aren't really siblings in the end, but the part where they have to force themselfs to not be in love, while believing that they are sibling, I just don't get it. Also Alecs crush on Jace was weird since they grew up as siblings, but at least he got over it.

This made my day way better

just found you and I love your videos and we both love the same book series

Look, I love the worldbuilding and the other two spinoffs series (The Infernal devices and TDA- i have no idea how to spell that last word) but I do admit, I read the OG series in 8th grade and I'm not sure wether I want to revisit it. I do love Cassie's other series so..

You only read the first three... The real good villain is on the other three, even though Valentine is good, Sebastian... Sebastian made me fear for the characters, any villain that can make me feel fear for the characters for me is a really good villain.

The problem with the court case is it sounds frivolous without knowing the details. I couldn't count the number of fantasy series I've read about magical bloodlines fighting a hidden adversary with magic weapons tied into a real world pantheon. If you just describe the surface similarities it seems like criticizing two books for being the same genre. It's not until you see the nearly identical symbols and history of copy and paste plagiarism that it's clearly a real issue.

Wait the cup, the sword and the mirror? That's a legend form korean culture i think. Don't remember it though, think it was a way to make someone immortal.

City of Lovely Bones

When I first read these (and actually until I watched this), I had no clue about the plagiarism claims. I took these at face value as Clare's own works. I usually read deconstructively, just for story and enjoyment, not for analysis. So I dove into this for the story and I enjoyed it through and through. No it wasn't perfect, but it made me want to know more and it actually sparked an interest in demonology for me. I'll agree about a lot of points in the Bad section (i.e., the demon hunting doesn't happen often enough), but at the same time for a deconstructive reader who is ignorant about the author's shadier publishing habits these books were pretty good. At the same time, every time Clare puts out a new Shadowhunters book I get it just to get it. I think she should have stopped writing them after Heavenly Fire or even Bane Chronicles. I liked Infernal Devices as a bit of backstory and setup for later books, but the story was done after Heavenly Fire. It didn't need the continuation it got from Dark Artifices and the latest series she's putting out (I honestly can't remember the name). I will say that I think Emma is a much better protag than Clary, but to me it's still just a money grab to keep going.

took me 20 minutes to realize this was not the mortal engines

I think Mortal Instruments is the worst of the Shadowhunters books. Admittedly, I still have a lot of them to go. Infernal Devices is a Godsend, Dark Artifices broke my heart and was a but weird?

Actually I'm pretty neutral about this series. I read only the three originals, because the library in my village didn't have the other ones and I really liked it back then, but it was years ago and I realize that I really have to reread them. I remember beeing shocked about some of the twists in city of glass. I was maybe fourteen when I read them, more than five years ago. I really liked them although I was very confused at first about Clary and Jace and if their are related or not.

@robertgronewold3326

3 жыл бұрын

The Victorian London prequel series, Infernal Devices, is even better than these first books.

What about the other three books in the series?

Wait they really spent like TWO books thinking they were siblings oh my god.... can't believe I read these in middle school.

In defense of imperfect allegory thats only a problem if the author actually intended it to be a complete equivalence. It makes sense that there would be racism against werewolves and vampires because they both eat people at least occasionally

You really should do a spoiler free review of demonata series.

I read a lot of sherrilyn kenyon's books and the mortal instruments. I'd say I could totally see the mortal instruments stealing, but even I wouldn't say they're the same books really. Or rather, the dark hunters both gets to the point quicker and is in Miss Kenyons larger novels (and later one's) WAY better than the mortal instruments.

"Nathan der Weise" a german classic is actually the book I hate the most idk if it was ever translated into english but I hope for most of the world that it wasnt allthough that is unlikely

@camelopardalis84

3 жыл бұрын

Ever read "Unterm Birnbaum"? The most boring book you can be forced to read in German class ever. And "Nathan der Weise" has absolutely been translated into English and I think it's not even that badly-known in the English-speaking world.