Chadi, I love the honesty in your videos. My dad trained in Okinawa Te in the 1980s, and still trains today. There is old school Jujitsu in Okinawa Te. He didn't like the rules of competition. He trained with no rules back in those days. The members of the dojo trained local authorities and pressure tested self defense. Thank you very much for covering this style of Karate. We are strikers, kickers, and grapplers.

@Ric_1985

Жыл бұрын

Karate evolved just wrong, if you watch 70s and 80s karate it was a badass martial art. Today is a ridiculous jumping punchless fighting style. Sorry but it's the truth.

@tylerscott9714

Жыл бұрын

@@Ric_1985 We have always trained the old ways. No competiions. No point Karate. Straight full contact training. Some have kept it real, while others evolved weaker. We've never been a proponent of modern day Karate Jutsu.

@Ric_1985

Жыл бұрын

@@tylerscott9714 I hear you brother and I honor that. It's just a shame It didn't evolve all together you know, it got lost somewhere and other martial arts took the spot.

@tylerscott9714

Жыл бұрын

@@Ric_1985 I know exactly what you mean, Brother. It is a shame.

@budojitsu1

Жыл бұрын

Kicking is striking

Thank goodness "old style" Okinawan Do is still being taught. Good video and Thanks.

I practice okinawan shorin ryu karate and ryukyu kobudo (bunbukan school). Just a point about kata: there is not just a way to practice them; a kata application can change from school to school,also from sensei to sensei. That why i find this martial art so interesting,because it's limitless

Just wanted to add that in ancient times a weapon was the primary tool to do combat. Ground fighting was used to pin your opponent so that you could finish the altercation with a weapon. The osae Komi of Judo is a clear example. For example pinning someone in kesa gatame can give you the opportunity to pull your knife, dagger, short sword etc.The joint locks were not made to make some submit but to render their limbs useless🤔🙏🏼

@miketesla8550

Жыл бұрын

Good to know

Not aware of any common strangle bunkai for passai/ bassai dai but strangles were definitely a part of old karate. In his 1933 book, Mizuho Mutsu demonstrates several collar chokes from the rear and also naked strangles

Just want to point out that the throat grab around 0:45 ... look at the legs. The technique includes an outside trip.

Okinawan Karate was my first style before starting Jujitsu / Judo, back in the early 80's. My instructor was a direct student of GM Robert Trias and he included basic locks , traps and sweeps as did other Okinawan based stylist of that era. I believe they also retained some of the Chinese Kung Fu concepts which influenced their techniques. Thank you for sharing! 💮

@miketesla8550

Жыл бұрын

Good to know

Having studied Shotokan Karate since childhood and recently starting with Judo over the last few years, the main throws/sweeps I’ve seen applied in shotokan are Deashi Barai and Osotagari. Your content is sublime Chadi. Thank you

Karate is definitely a underrated martial art. I used to trained it when I was a kid for about a year. But after learning more about it's history, I think it's a really cool martial art ☺️. Thank you for sharing ☺️.

"Before 1900, karate placed just as much emphasis on the Tegumi elements of the art as it did upon the striking. Karate training would include throws, joint-locks, chokes, strangles, grips, counters etc. At around 1905, when karate underwent many changes so it would be suitable for the physical education for Okinawa’s school children. The dangerous techniques (tegumi) were removed and many aspects of Tegumi were abandoned. It is mainly because of this “watering down” of karate that grappling is no longer a common sight in most karate dojos today. However, if you want to practice karate as a complete system of fighting, you must include Tegumi in your practice. . To be an effective fighter it is imperative that you have a knowledge of all ranges of fighting like the masters before us. Hence, it is vital that Tegumi forms part of your practice, just as it did for the masters of the past who formulated karate." Source Site: "By more closely examining the art of Karate I began to identify several different methods within a single tradition. This resulted in believing Karate represents the heritage of various fighting arts. Most obvious is striking, its fundamental tool, however, through the meticulous study of kata, it became evident that its application practices extended far beyond percussive-impact and into the realm of grappling, seizing and restraint! Cross-referencing such individual practices with similar yet older fighting arts from neighbouring cultures, I was able to make some interesting deductions. In spite of the ambiguity shrouding the haphazard fusion of these fighting arts brought together under the name, “Karatedo” [空手道 est. 1933], I identified no fewer than four separate disciplines. I believe that these empty-handed fighting arts represent the true source from which Karate traces its origins: Tegumi [手組] was originally a form of grappling dating back to the time of Tametomo [11th century Japan]. The discipline is believed to have been originally derived from Chinese Wrestling [Jiao Li/角力 from which comes Shuai Jiao/摔角 --- new name est. 1928] and evolved into a unique form of wrestling before finally became a rule-bound sport called Ryukyu/Okinawan Sumo. Torite [Chin Na/Qinna/擒拿in Mandarin Chinese] is the Chinese Shaolin-based method of seizing and restraining an opponent. Once vigorously embraced by law enforcement officials, security agencies and correctional officers during Okinawa's old Ryukyu Kingdom Period, the solo re-enactment of this practice can be found in Kata. Kata [Hsing/Xing 型/形 in Mandarin Chinese], in spite of its vigorous local cultivation during Okinawa’s old Ryukyu Kingdom Period [see my Kumemura theory], are solo fighting routines which trace their origins back to [Fujian] Chinese quanfa [拳法]; e.g. Yongchun Crane Boxing, Monk Fist and Southern Praying Mantis styles, etc. Used as forms of human movement, and unique ways of personal training, they were popularized by the Chinese as ways of promoting physical fitness, mental conditioning and holistic well-being. Ti'gwa [手小] was Okinawa's plebeian form of percussive impact--aka "Te," “Ti,” "Di" [手 meaning hand/s] or Okinawa-te and Uchinadi. It was an art that depended principally upon the use of clenched fists to strike an opponent [in contrast to the open hand method preferred by Chinese arts, according to both Kyan Chotoku & Miyagi Chojun] although the head, feet, shins, elbows and knees were also favoured." Source site:

@ClydeRowing

Жыл бұрын

I suspect that up till the 1950s or even 1960s, it was common for those starting karate to have a background in the much more prevalent art of judo.

That scissors technique from thumbnail is also depicted in one of Serge Mol books as koryu jujutsu technique for fighting in armor.

Lyoto Machida talked about this too during an interview

Karate kata definitely contain grappling techniques clinches throws takedowns love the video there's much more to karate then just striking

I am currently training in Okinawan Kenpo, but I am a judo shodan. I see a lot more grappling techniques in the kata bunkai than I thought. There are foot sweeps, reaps and even tomoe nage in a good portion of it. I spend a lot of time working on the bunkai with a few of the instructors as they have a grappling background like I do.

Great video!

Bassai Dai is a Japanese kata. In Okinawan karate, you're looking for Passai. There are variations, and the choke is often done so quickly that you barely notice it in the kata.

I used the scissor attack in the street once. I was on the floor from grappling with another enemy. He was naturalized by a double leg takedown and being on the ground I scissor kicked an on coming enemy. The person attacked with the scissor kicked went down hard.

Sensei Vínico Antony who trained Loyto Machida talks about this stuff in his book karate Jitsu as well as the applications in his videos. People still try to tell that's not karate to this Day.

Gracias Chadi.

Thank you for this amazing video, Chadi.

Some other grappling techniques I learned in IOGKF Goju Ryu Karate: O Soto Gari, O Uchi Gari, Kata Guruma, Ude Garami, arm drag, and some others I never actually learned the names of but you've probably seen before. Like the one where you extend your arm across the opponent's chest or under the chin and then trip them over your leg that's behind their leg. And some variations of sweeps and trips off of kick catches. There's also a lot of arm trapping.

@MrMattias87

Жыл бұрын

Imo goju ryu makes it obvious that grappling is very much a part of karate through the practice of kakie and bunkai and then marrying the two together.

I've watched a few other of your videos but the way you engage your community is wholesome and the way you said the phrase end their life made me laugh so you have a new subscriber now

Oss! Thank you sensei chadi

Chadi san, we’ll done on this video as usual. I practice a form of Basai dai that the rear naked choke is obvious. So I checked out the Shotokan version of the kata by shotokankataman channel and at 44 sec if you freeze the video you can see the senseis hands position would form the pattern of a rear naked choke. I do realize his hands are open but I believe that was an ascetic alteration by someone that didn’t under stand the movement. In the version I do I was taught to kick behind the knee to add more leverage to the choke and I was shown the same position horizontally. Hope this helps. Keep up the research🙏🏼

@Chadi

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I was approaching Kata through Judo lenses 🙇🏻‍♂️

@Lon3wolf7

Жыл бұрын

@@Chadi Do you think the bubishi is a good book to get for practice?even practicing with a dummy or heavy sandbag to own techniques?

@AyeJordan7

Жыл бұрын

@@Lon3wolf7yessss

Chadi thank you for pointing out the forgotten throws of Okinawan Karate. 🤔👏💯👌👍👊😎

4:34 it's the bassai dai, Patrick McCarthy interpreted the opening of bassai dai as a guillotine in a video of jesse enkamp titled "the functional karate revolution"(14:46 of that video)

Thanks for continuing to show grappling moves are in all arts

Not only Okinawan Karate, bud the "modern" version, the "japanese karate" like shotokan, wado-ryu, etc also have those techniques. The founder of the Shotokan style, Gichin Funakoshi, in his legacy technical books (To-te Jitsu and Karate-do Kyohan) left several illustrated nage-waza. Take a look if you have some time.

@ClydeRowing

Жыл бұрын

Wado also has (or at least had) a ton of two man kata with throws and joint locks. The founder was an experienced jujutsu practitioner before he started karate.

45 years ago in America most jiujitsu schools had kicks and striking like karate but way more take downs and sweeps. Jiujitsu look more like hapkido or Shorinji kempo karate. Shito ryu karate has throws and sweeps. Many ridiculous looking katas have hidden grappling techniques that many modern instructors were never taught. That’s why I added studying judo when I became an advanced student of Seido karate.

@arnoldcohen1250

Жыл бұрын

60 years ago my dojo strongly suggested that all students first study some judo before karate or aikido. Now I know why!!

@lannelbishop3668

Жыл бұрын

@@arnoldcohen1250 karate throws are only effective after you get your opponent punch drunk to use them. Judo throw are way superior. Nobody punches harder than a boxer. Nobody throws or sweeps better than a judoka. No martial arts adapts other foreign techniques into their system than Japanese karate.

Hey Chadi, you picked the topic very fast 👍

Sepai in Goju Ryu has that strangle.

good video

Keep in mind that Passai kata has many variations, especially variations that are different from the one that’s different done in WKF kata tournaments. Off the top of my head there’s 4 variations at least that are pretty different from each other.

well, thank you, Sensei Chadi. You are an honest Budoka and put very good content. In the minute 4:53 we see this choke. According to a very respectful master, this could be an oyo or bunkai from a variation of Passai. Honestly I don´t know, have seen many versions of Bassai, Patsai or however we call it. In my humble opinion it could be maybe a movement from Naihanchi Nidan- but let us respect and trust the experience of hard working karatekas. 🙇🏽‍♂🙇🏽‍♂

Awesome video! It's great seeing people bring attention the the takedowns and now ground work in Karate. I've always wondered if some of those hand techniques we practice are for grappling and takedowns. Ridgehands, knife hands etc. seem pretty good for striking into a tie of some kind. I forget what form but I seem to remember a spear hand that you then step into and pull behind your back. Whenever I recall or see something a bit strange in kata I now think about grappling/wrestling applications.

@AntN

Жыл бұрын

The downward block can be seen as a stripping motion when your arm /wrist is grabbed rather than a block per se.

Yo practico uechi ryu y tambien judo exelente video

Oh snap, this looks cool man. Let's take a look... Also hey bro, would love to see a video on Uzbekistan wrestling, what's it called, like Kushar or something like that? Kushak? I can't remember hah, but it's pretty awesome.

@scarred10

Жыл бұрын

Kurash

Great video. I would say that any position that uses the koshi kamae (cup and saucer position) as is found in Bassai Dai (Passai) could be used for hadaka-jime.

I came from a more strike heavy form of Goju Karate. After study with the Bubishi and including other forms of training(like HS Wrestling) I understand what karate should be. Karate is a system that does includes grappling and striking. It is primarily used on the feet but includes some ground moves. Reality is you need Grappling(stand up/ground) and Striking(stand up/ground) to be a complete system. However most karate schools may not be a true complete system but close.

Ahh man, I commend that man's bravery for being an uke for the scissor takedown. ✂️ 🥋

Thanks for your great videos, is there a video that shows the relationship between sumó and judo? I saw one that showed the relation among sumó, Daito ryu Aikijujutsu and aikido...

The strangling is clearly done in Seipai kata, at the second movement complex (because that's what I always understood they were, movement complexes with several applications). It comes after another pattern which makes sense into clinch or standup grappling. If you look carefully, the movement can be used even as shoulder crunch. As @kakuto mentioned in another comment, in old school gojuryu it is more evident.

Yes indeed old school okinawan karate has all the techniques all rolled into one unlike modern gyms of today who have commercialized if not dont have insufficient knowledge in imparting all theses deep or down to earth styles🤔👍👏👊

En el Dojo donde aprendí Karate, a pesar de se Shotokan, nos enseñaron a pelear de espaldas al suelo, técnicas de lucha, palancas y llaves, vaya, todo eso que no se puede hacer en un torneo de federación. El Karate es muchísimo más versátil y completo de lo que la gente cree. In the Dojo where I learned Karate, despite being Shotokan, they taught us to fight with our backs to the ground, wrestling and grappling techniques, all that stuff that can't be done in a federation tournament. Karate is much more versatile and complete than people believe.

0$U! Love the Katas and Judo variations!

Could you please make a video about Muay Boran Lost grappling?

As a Judoka first and a Taekwondoin second I must say good research. A thing I like you to realise is that Kata in traditional striking systems are a bit different to katas in wrestling systems. You have more Bunkai work involved. Look it up!

The RNC is in the shorinryu shorinkan passai dai kata, see Nakazato Shugoro Sensei (successor of Chibana Chosin Sensei) perform the kata. Its the first kia.

Now do a video on Ringen

Regarding Basai/Patsai/Balsak kata and hadaka jime/RNC At the "top" or furthest forward point where the first or only kick happens, the hands, across Korean karate (Tangsoodo and Taekwondo), Wado, Shotokan, and Shito styles begin the motion with the left arm pulling back and down with the right hand either meeting, reinforcing, or lightly touching the left. This motion could be the right arm hooking around an opponent's neck and holding them and stomping the back of their knee to put the choke on while holding them in a "cable grip." Significantly there is no follow-up to this technique; the practitioner immediately faces the opposite direction and performs a parry/uke. This indicates that whatever happens at the top of the form was the end of that threat. 5th dan Taekwondo Ikkyu Wadokai 4th kyu Judo Wayward kumdo-jin and nok the Muay Thai

Along with judo I do karate and just the sanchin kata can be used for grabling. There is the footwork for tackling, the wrist grab, the heaven and earth pose(you can grab the waist and head and tackle) and blocks you can turn to a attack to the head that can also be grabs. Kata is full of aplications

Very interesting I’ve heard about it before But I did not expect that Karate has so many grappling techniques

Anyone looking to watch more videos of traditional karate. Check out Iain Abernathy. Great video as always

When it comes to the statement about Passai, many styles have different versions of the kata so an application that may be present in Shorin Ryu Passai may not be as evident in Shotokan Bassai Dai there's also some styles like Shotokan that have two or more Bassai/Passai with a Dai Sho pair or other versions within the same system

Another teacher who might interest you with a little karate grappling would probably be Ian Abernathy.

Chadi, I thank you very much for your work. Karate it's an Art with much more than: punching, poking, striking, kicking and blocking with some sweeps. Unfortunately in the 70's we only learn all thid stuff together with the self defence techniques from Nishiyama's & C. Brown's book: "Karate the Art of Empty Hand Fighting" and Nakayama's first Katas series books with some very basic applications. Then Nakayama's & D. F. Draeger's books: "Practical Karate". Nothing else than that during years. I also practice Judo, Self Defence & Aikido both with a lot of Judo and Aikido Atemi Waza. So Karate remained as a very powerful striking Art. It wasn't until I finished my Military Service where I had the chance to learn Hand to Hand Combat. I migrated to Antwerpen Belgium and there I found an extremely good Budo Teacher and best person who taught Karatedo and Karate Jutsu. The second was a personal interpretation of all the Shotokan Ryu Kata following Master Oshima's work line. My Sensei told us that Karate was a compleet Budo with Nage Waza, Katame Waza and of course Atemi Waza. I miss very much my old Sensei who also taught Nihon Jujutsu, old Kodokan Judo & Tomiki Aikido and my job Taiho Jutsu. We were the only school that trained Judo Kata in those days, the 80's. I'm very happy for all the good job several researchers like you, Chadi, are doing for Japanese Martial Arts and others. I'm getting old and my knees don't let me to do a lot I would like to but my students take care of this "old chap", I am and that makes me happy. KARATEDO it's a way of life with a lot of chapters to discover and you and all Budo friends on the chat. Teach me everyday something knew and so keep on learning. Best wishes and blessings from Spain.

@martialartnerd1396

10 ай бұрын

If you know Ohshima school, you now that there is a good thing that Funakoshi throws are required for yodan, and that is a very good point that i like, and some of them (yodan or godan) are quite good. And that is sad that a lot of shotokan school don't do that (but not all !). But you know that this is however basic work, even for yodan, with no real application in self defense or in sparring, and ground work for sandan is quite basic, too, nothing to do with some basic judo or jiu-jutsu. It is more kata than real application. That is quite fare from real old Okinawa karate, Bubishi, and far for what we see now in modern karate applications that we can see with guys like Ian Abernethy, David Gimberline, Vinico Antony, or French guys like Bernard Bilicki, which in my point of view, all makes "modern" karate, but similar to the old idea of karate of the origins, that we can see in this video.

Chadi luv your channel not to argue but in my system Kenpo we do joint locks and a little bit of grappling not a lot but our founder Ed Parker was a black belt in judo and adapted

Reference mowment of The Choke IS from The kata Seipai

I have always felt that the karate inside outside block and reverse punch was not just the cookie cutter karate answer to most attacks; gyaku tzuki /reverse punch, but a cookie cutter wrestling counter to most wrist grabs the arm drag to back take. Also, if you look at the Japanese jiu jitsu or the old Aikijutsu, even earlier forms of modern Aikido. Most of the "attacks" look like karate, albeit usually poorly executed, and the lower ranks even dress in a basic white Gi or kimono. The masters all dress in the hakama. Love the channel Ty!

Now that you have reached this subject, other than the Jujutsu style of the Shimazu clan of the Satsuma Domain (can't remember which style exactly off the top of my my head) during their occupation in the Ryukyu Islands, and the indigenous grappling arts (tegumi) and weapon arts of the Ryukyuans themselves, you can look into Fujianese arts if you are looking into delving into this subject further; kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZWqCmZOCfb2-esY.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/oYN82aiwotKunc4.html

@eagle162

Жыл бұрын

That seems really doubtful honestly.

@astonprice-lockhart7261

Жыл бұрын

@@eagle162 Wait? What part seems doubtful?

@SeymoreSparda

Жыл бұрын

@@eagle162 Doubtful that there are historical links between the two? Feel free to do your own research, and not just swallow my input as is (I'm not being sarcastic when I say this). But doubtful of their effectiveness? Then be my guess, feel free to pressure-test, cross-train and modify it with the Ne-Waza of Judo, BJJ and other Jujutsu styles, along with other wrestling arts like Catch, Greco-Roman, Freestyle and Sambo. Like, FRfr! 👌 The martial journey is a very long one, and to do said things alone in just 1 lifetime is nigh impossible Why not, as long as you share your findings with others. Heck, even the indigenous Ryukyuan Tegumi grappling art needs cross-training and pressure-testing with those said arts. Same goes with Taido and Shorinji Kempo. Also, spread this gospel to Shidokan, Satojuku, Ashihara, Enshin, Seido, Seidokaikan and Kudo karatekas while you are at it, considering they all have their own native grappling style(s).

@eagle162

Жыл бұрын

@@SeymoreSparda sorry but I was mostly referring to dog boxing I've not found anything to support this art is that old, Kung Fu history is full of BS stories so makes it even harder, in fact during late qing and early Republican era the ground fighting in Jujutsu and Judo was seen as something new I can give you some articles if you want it will be entirely in Chinese however. Ask for white cane besides Gōjū-ryū, I've actually found an article arguing white crane was not the only or even the most influential Kung Fu style that influence several karate styles. I could try to find it again if you want but it may take a while.

@SeymoreSparda

Жыл бұрын

@@eagle162 Ahh. See, I've been having kinda the same problem as yours, and to make matters worse, I don't understand any Chinese and Okinawan language/dialect at all (elementary Japanese doesn't count when it's neglected for years) (Even in Fujian, more than 1 dialect is spoken. Hokkien is more towards the south and Taiwan). Here's the thing - the split between Okinawan and Japanese Karate happened during the early 20th century, right? It is said that Dishu/Gou Quan was taught in the royal court of Ryukyu, but not to the extent that it was also taught outside. So far so good. Even when the style was supposedly revived, owing to a certain patriarch of theirs brought it back home to the mainland, some local sister styles that stayed there retained some form of ground fighting, even if in their bare minimum. At that point, it started to become blurry. nevermind how ground fighting styles from the north got exported out into Fujian in the first place. Not only were/are the "Ditang" styles of the north burried inside other major styles, they are not exclusively "shaolin" arts too. Nonetheless, monkey styles are always associated with some form of ground fighting, and Fujian had its own version of that. Heck, it's part of Wuzuquan. As for Goju-Ryu, its origin has been pin-pointed to Ming He Quan, I believe. See, the confusion lies in the local Fujianese tradition to cross-train with each other. The founder of that style was a Luohan Quan stylist first, before he learned White Crane. Not only that, Hioganna Kanryo too took Luohan Quan before he went to Fuzhou to further his studies. Furthermore, even his Shuri predecessors learned White Crane. It went cyclical like that. Uechi-Ryu origin tho? Now that's a way more complicated matter. Sure, Kanbun Uechi was somewhat recorded to study Hu Zun Quan in Fuzhou. But what is Pangainoon, really? The modern Gangrouquan in Zhejiang is different, Heck, Hu Zun Quan is not exactly 1:1 to Uechi Ryu. It's as if, an older style of White Crane had been given the methodology and flavor of the Hakkas (Chow and Chu Gar especially), when we look at modern Uechi-Ryu. Did his teacher teach him more than 1 styles? Did he himself decide to combine styles? To make matters more confusing, even certain hakka styles were/are kinda too close to Fujianese/Hokkienese styles, like certain beggar styles and Lau Gar Gao. One one hand, they claim that in the olden days their arts were only taught winthin families. On the other hand, the Fujianese influences were/are visibly there? Heck, some even claim Fujianese shaolin origin themselves. How can they not, when even Fujian had/has major Hakka diaspora too. I think what separate(d) the Shuri, Tomari and Naha styles in those days, and subconciously modern decendant Karate styles nowadays, are which art(s) they focus on, whether [it is/they are] Taizu, Luohan, White Crane. Same can be said to the 5 lineages of Wuzu Quan nowadays. Oh, and if you are willing to go deeper into this, look into Jishan Quan, an even older style, that is said to predate even most of the styles I mentioned before. And look into what the supposed Song/Ming-loyalists, that supposedly brought Taizu to the south, have to say about this. Are they for real? Also, the real personal family style of the founder of the Song Dynasty, Da Hong Quan. Well, supposedly.

I do believe that karateNerd talk about this same thing.

I have seen some Uechi-Ryu katas and they seem to focus on clinch fighting. The movements look like what you would do if you're fighting in the clinch.

In Okinawa the palace guards practiced a form of ground fighting that was called I think monkey or monk fist boxing? It's in the book Shotokan's secret.

I trained in Motobu Udin Te forebears of Okinawa Te. Foundation from Chin Na Chin Gempai of Kang Xi Kwan known in Uchinanchu as Kusanku.

you probably wont be seeing this, but the choke is done when both hands are on the hip just before the tsuki with the uchi uke

@Chadi

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

Hi Chadi, great video here a bit bias on part. My background is karate/jujutsu. Karate and Jujutsu have always gone hand in hand. I am a student of Koryu Uchinadi/Aiki Kenpo Jujutsu under Patrick McCarthy. The mechanics and principles are one in the same in any art. If you take rules and regulations out, the training methodologies, culture landscape and mindset and specific uniform. You will start to see the same things. Jujutsu was the missing link for karate as the mainland of Japan saw the grappling as something they already had, so why see it again and they were looking for equivalent to savate and boxing. But as you can see Okinawan karate is very much like jujutsu. Even though some of its heritage comes from China. Shuai Jiao and Chin Na. What separates karate from jujutsu is the solo exercises I.E kata. I look at karate as jujutsu. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

@eagle162

Жыл бұрын

Both likely have a deeper connection it wasn't uncommon for the Okinawan upper class to study Japanese martial arts, in fact the person considered the founder of modern karate,Matsumura Sōkon train in jigen ryu. Karate history is also filled with people taking influence from Judo. There's something interesting to read. "WHAT EVERYONE DOESN’T KNOW ABOUT KARATE HISTORY" by John Simmons. Unlikely to have taken from shuaibu jiao it's a much younger art Than People realize and chin na is not a art it's just a generic term that means joint lock. Here is a video series, I can give you more if you want. kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIuVqpRqqJzVZNI.html

Those aren't forgotten,I was taught those

The relation among strangle techs and karate can be seen according to hanshi mac carthy in the jion kata salute, funakoshi published various throws in his 1922 book and a kata worth watching for its relation to nage waza is empi / wanshu kata, however old karate throws are closer to chinese shuai shiao than judo, but many standing judo techs (kansetsu waza) sweeps (ashi waza) and only some throws (nage waza), were adopted as karate became more japanese in the early decades of the 20th century.

👍

My toughest opponent ever was a state champion in Okinawa Karate and Kenbo

There a style I know called shindo jitsu

16 years Shotokan here Chadi and many thousands of bassai, I never interpreted hadaka jime in the kata, but on interpretation it could be in there, at about 20% of the way through the kata, after the 4th shuto uke, the trapping movement could be used as a hadaka jime… good interpretation actually, I however always used it as a trapping movement since the next movement that you perform in the sequence is a low side kick to the knee, instep or foot. But the purpose of kata is to teach patterns of movement that can be used to fit various scenarios so I like that interpretation

Your work as a historical researcher is much appreciated Chadi, thank you!

I think the Hadaka Jime in Bassai Dai is the sequence after the Mikazushi Geri (crescent kick) beginning with an elbow strike in your own Hand (like heian godan) and than sliding your arms 3times at each other. Watch at 0.48 m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/k2qckrCAppbeZLw.html

Train in this kind of Okinawan karate, great techniques only issue some times not trained with enough intensity. I always try to train with intensity if I can.

Hi ! as a Karateka, and Judoka (and some more... but little...) I really like your videos and research. But just some points : Bubishi is not old Okinawa karate, and is there really something lost in karate ? The bubishi was imported in Okinawa quite late, and "karate" (that was not the good name at that time), or To Dii (Tang's Hand) was quite developed in Okinawa in that time. But it was important at that time for local masters to prove that the root of To dii was very ancient, and the bubishi was there at the right moment at the right time. However, we now all knows that there is a very strong influence of old Chinese martial art in "Okinawa" martial art, and that is why the Bubishi is so interesting to have and read (I have one). Yes, in To dii, and then kara te, there is a lot of throws, joint locks, atemi etc etc. But some schools make them, and some no more. That is all. The problem was when karate spread in the world, we just have one look of the art, mainly of JKA, and sports karate developed, and some type of technics where no more practiced in many schools. And remember, in 1922 -1930, firsts students of Funakoshi in Japan were Judoka. So they didn't needed at that moment to do much throw and so on, because they knew how to do it ! So they developed karate in a different direction at that time. But now, there is a lot of karate schools that makes that work again of throws, joints locks, punch, etc, global fighting system. That is what it makes interesting to practice. For bassai, I never ment to make strangulation technics there... I will think about it.

What makes yoko wakare dangerous?

My dad and I have discussed this several more times. He has told me stories about his days training with Okinawan Karate as well as Japanese Jiu Jitsu and working with different practitioners in other styles. He stated much of the rhetoric about Karate should have more than one definition in the conversation. It seems Karate gets a bad rap, a little more than most styles of fighting. My dad is a grappler and there is a lot of grappling in his style of Karate. I've seen him train, pressure test, and even defend himself with Karate. He said there is a big difference in competition and street defense. And I'm guessing his training in boxing helped his Karate too. I guess I'm trying to understand how Karate gets a bad rap for street defense. Other than I do see many people talk against Karate because they're selling their style through their dojo. Dad always says style means little compared to the practitioners' skills. It's the fighter not the style. My dad attended seminars where Joe Lewis taught. Mr. Lewis said a Karate practitioner is as good a fighter as anyone else if trained properly and with grappling. Street defense Karate training is much different than competition. Yes or no in your opinion?

Indeed, karate as many martial arts had to mix throwing techniques with a striking....i read somewhere that Karate didn't have to wait to get to Japan to use Judo and jujitsu in its systeme, where it continued to be purified, but that there was a kind of wrestling they already used back in the days in Okinawa.... moreover, many people that have trained judo or any grappling martial art like me haven't had any problem in mixing them with karate. We have even applied the principle of Judo to Karate...the result of both martial arts is amazing and very strong... now, what I wanted to share with u is how karate applied this throwing knowledge to its art of defense (not sport ) in order to improve its operativeness...for that take a look at the principle "Byobu daoshi"...meaning: dropping smth or like a felling a tree..

At my dojo we do Okinawa karate

Hi, Chadi, to answer your question, non of those techniques are practiced in traditional karate. They may be buried in a bunkai but it's never taken to action. What's really practiced to the exhaustion is the katas and ppl forget what the movements are for. For example, the kata Funakoshi is doing is Empty (I guess). In that kata, when he leaves his foot in and falls in a kibadashi position (this's bs), that means it's an ashibarai. Ashibarais are practiced, however, but not as much and effective as in judo.

@AyeJordan7

Жыл бұрын

All of these moves are within karate..

👏👏👏👏👏👏🙏

Thats the throat rip from Mcgruber

First day I ever took karate they taught bear hugs and elbows

Take a look at this...It is believed by some, Nagamine included, that tegumi was probably the original form of fighting in Okinawa and, after incorporating striking and kicking techniques imported from China, became the progenitor of Te, which is the foundation of modern karate. Known as tegumi in Naha, and mutō in Tomari and Shuri, Okinawan wrestling remained a popular cultural recreation until the Taishō period (1912 - 1925). There is little evidence of how tegumi evolved but the result was a rough and tumble bout where the winner was decided by submission, through joint locks, strangles or pinning. Today, tegumi has a strict set of rules and is still practiced widely.

Kani basami is a little bit safer if tori puts one hand at the ground I think

You're not supposed to do ude gaeshi standing 🤔 that's my main throw

Why do we always say "lost" techniques? Did you find them in the coach next to the remote control? Did you find them in your attic or at a garage sale? Maybe they were in the back of the fridge this whole time!

@carltorres1006

Жыл бұрын

Because they are not found or rarely used techniques. There's no even bassai ground techniques in the video. We used to train ground fighting back in the days using bassai kata bunkai. Many variations

@janeygenraam7923

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😄👌

Hi Chadi I enjoyed this video as well as your other videos. I had started my martial Arts journey with Kozen Judo then shotokan Karate. In Shotokan Karate takedown techniques are still part of the black belt curriculum in some schools. They are Nage waza. Here is an example m.kzread.info/dash/bejne/eWh5uaScYdGvmJM.html&feature=emb_title Would love your perspective

Karate is a greate martial art. But you will find the same combat skills in all cultures of the world. Because people have the same constitusion of body everywhere.

Okinawan karate was heavily influenced by fujianese kung fu styles and these are Fujian dog style techniques. In face Fujian dog kung fu is specialized in anti-ground grappling.

@eagle162

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There's no evidence for this and looking at the history in Chinese don't point to fujian dog as being that old.

Okinawans are not cut off from the wider world, just because a Karate instructor is older and living in Okinawa does not that mean that everything they're teaching is historically accurate information preserved from ages ago. I've done a lot of research into Karate of the early and mid 1900s and I've never seen a reference to hadaka jime being in any Karate curriculum. I'd also like to add that not all these techniques are lost, there are videos on youtube of contemporary practioners still teaching such techniques and in the case of the JKA branch of shotokan still allowing many in competition kumite. Here are a couple clips showing similar techniques to those seen in the bubishi. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y6ypmtGeeMi4qrg.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/mHeMubiTlbm2kqw.html

@retroghidora6767

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As an aside I don't intend my comment to be a validation of the ideas that Karate is mainly a grappling style or that it contains newaza in the same way that jujutsu and judo do. Having read many old karate books and seen old footage (both from as early as the 1920s) I've observed that Karate back then wasn't AS different as some like to believe, especially when taking into account lineages that still practice "lost" techniques to this day.

@eagle162

Жыл бұрын

Do you mind sharing some of those books or videos, kind of curious.

Not lost at all, 1/3rd of Okinawan Karate is grappling, we have throws, trips, breaks, locks etc.

Bassai dai, Bassai sho, Passai, Matsumora Passai...too many variations to say where it's from.

The technique starting at 1.50 works very well. In August 1975 I was on a karate team from another country at the IAKF world champs in L.A. I am 5'9" and my opponent was about 6' 5"and had about 40 pounds on me. The team captain turned to me before we started and said "Its not your lucky day". I was on my back when he scooped my kick and was about to drop on me for a full ippon. Pure instinct made me do this move, but I did the unthinkable which was not the thing to do in a Shotokan world, especially the follow through in a figure four leg lock. He had already scored so he won , face down, crying out in pain and locked up tighter than a drum. Competition apparently was not for me.

Throat thrusting, scissoring...this is not what I came here for...