Note: the SDP40F never had issues on the tracks of the Santa Fe. I meant to say every railroad but the Santa Fe. Also, when I speak for the retirement of the F45's I mean the SDP40f's.

The F45 and FP45 were always my favorite looking EMD locomotive.

@realcanadian96

Жыл бұрын

Yah, same here.

I find it admirable that the Santa Fe was concerned about the esthetics of their passenger locos when other roads just didn't give a damn.

@markwilliams2620

Жыл бұрын

Southern was, too. As was UP. Wonder how much that attitude played into their being the last surviving railroads? The Milwaukee did, too, but didn't have the management or capital.

@chrismiller5198

Жыл бұрын

@@markwilliams2620 I'm pleased to hear about other roads that were. I've never liked passenger geeps.

@grandcrappy

Жыл бұрын

Too bad psgr travel was never profitable enough for class one's. But the paint schemes we miss.

@grandcrappy

Жыл бұрын

Great liveries, psgr. svx wasn't profitable

@reesochacon1448

9 ай бұрын

​@@markwilliams2620 That makes sense. The Southern Railway held on with its passenger services until 1978, which implies to me that their passenger traffic was extremely profitable.

I couldn't begin to count how many of these that I would watch at the famous X cross over of Santa Fe & BN in Galesburg I'll. Also known at the Lincoln St. Viaduct. Trains every 30 minutes or so. Those were great rail fanning days.

On the used locomotive side of things, the small but mighty group of F45s (and one FP45) that Wisconsin Central Ltd had always made my day when I got to see them trackside. Absolutely my favorite locos and color scheme.

In the 1990s we made special trips to Illinois to catch the red/silver ATSF locos that were being painted. At ARGO tower(Chicago) we caught a westbound pig with 4 FP/F 45s,,all in red silver. Perfect sun angle! 15 years earlier we caught at Corwith a 28CG and 30 CG coupled together.

Vintage EMD'S slowly being scrapped, two stroke inefficiency. But an 80 yr run is a win.

Caught one! The Santa Fe warbonnet was created in the early 1930's by Leland Knickerbocker, an artist and designer with GM, for the first streamliners of the Santa Fe and B&O, the E- units.which are some of my favorite diesels.

@anthonyc1883

Жыл бұрын

Yes, and well before the 1950s. Alco Diesel Guy made a slip-up. It happens. Good video.

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

The early Rock Island passenger livery was also similar to the Santa Fe, and I’m pretty sure it came from the same team at EMD.

@alanpope179

9 ай бұрын

All of Santa Fe's F units were rebuilt into CF-7's not scrapped. You left out the F40-c units built for Metra in Chicago!

The "six axle F unit." I remember seeing these occasionally in Southern California in the 1970s and 80s.

These are still some of the best looking locomotives of all time in my opinion.

It always good to see someone doing a fl review on the FP45. It will always be my Fav diesel locomotive of all time

Excellent video! Thumbs up! 👍

Keep these locomotive history videos up!

SDP40F Amtrak in HO were my favorite Loco's. Thanks for the video.

The SDP40F, being based on the SD40-2, featured a variation of the then new HT-C truck (this truck design was the reason that an SD40-2/45-2 is about 3 feet longer than an older SD40/45). Concerns about this truck design is why Conrail specified Flexicoil trucks for its fleet of SD40-2's as well as its first order of SD50's. Mom

From viewing this video I gather the F45 was the inspiration for making Amtrak's mainstay Diesel electric F40 of the late 1970s, 80s and beyond. I actually didn't realize the Amtrak F40 wasn't a freight road switcher, but a cowl unit with internal passage until later. Without looking for the cat walkways the F40 still resembles a GP40. The F40 looked so blunt and square it lacked any aerodynamic look of a traditional passenger locomotive and I associated it with running passenger trains at freight train speeds instead of the express passenger trains of the past one of which my father once said they'd timed the mile posts while on a passenger steam locomotive train at 90 mph. I certainly prefer the look of a shark nose or F unit streamlined cowl unit for passenger train service. With all the mass of the train I have been lead to believe the aerodynamics of the locomotive don't make a noticeable difference in drag reduction, but it sure seems crude to just smash a blunt object through the wind and it does likely cost some accountable amount of energy. I remember the original MTU Metroliners just had the blunt end of a passenger car going forward at 120 mph.

@joshmeister4449

Жыл бұрын

Amtraks SDP40F is what was based off the F45 and the FP45 series. The F40PH came about because of how awful the SDP40F was.

@douglasengle2704

Жыл бұрын

@@joshmeister4449 Thanks you for clarifying. I didn't remember right off the actual Amtrak calling for Amtrak's F40PH. It had been many years since I watched the F40PH pulling the Amtrak's Cardinal through Montgomery WV in the 1980s when I was taking electrical engineering at WV Tech there. I didn't really notice it didn't have the cat walks along the engine that a GP40-2 road switcher has. I might have, but thought it was just cosmetic not realizing that meant it had internal passage ways as traditional passenger locomotives.

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

@@douglasengle2704 Amtrak did continue to use some F40PHs into the early 2000s, and Metra in Chicagoland still uses them every day. Amtrak also had some Head-End-Power -equipped GP40-2s that were used for everything from passenger trains to switching and work trains. If I remember right, those GP40s were originally built as GP40TCs for GO Transit in Toronto, and initially worked freight trains on weekends for CN.

@rossbryan6102

Жыл бұрын

WORKING AT SANTA FE ARGENTINE SHOP WE WERE THE RECEIVING POINT FOR ALL THESE UNITS WHEN NEW OUT OF THE FACTORY! OF THE PA UNITS THERE WAS ONLY ONE EMD TRANSPLANT, AND IT ONLY RECEIVED A 1750 HP 16-567-C ENGINE! IT WAS UNDERPOWERED , AND ABOVE 60 MPH IT WAS JUST GETTING DRUG ALONG FOR THE RIDE! THIS ENGINE WAS NOT OFTEN SEEN THROUGH ARGENTINE, MY GUESS BEING USED MOSTLY ON THE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COASTLINE SERVICE! KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!! 👍👍

I distinctly seeing one of the ex-GN f45s after it's BN respray in the 70's at the interbay yard north of Seattle as a little kid - beautiful piece of machinery . Thanks for the vid.

The Grand Canyon railway has some really nice F40FH units in service, they also have a real nice FPA-4 on static display. The consists in service are all SantaFe hold overs, and they have a decent size yard to get parts from. Some real nice Santa Fe history in Williams AZ/N. AZ

Nice video. Thank you.

Super. I always liked the SDF45 and the SDFP45 locomotives, but the SDP40F, not so much, especially after they cut new steps in the nose. 💙 T.E.N.

The Santa Fe were right when they thought Cowl Unit locomotives looked cool pulling passenger trains. I would have loved to tell them that they look great hauling freight too.

Your videos are very informative without being overdramatic or over technical.

Some F45s are preserved. Great Northern #441 is a lodge. Montana Rail Link #390 is privately owned. GECX #5989 is awaiting restoration. One SDP40F is preserved: Amtrak #644.

Always a good day when I see another upload from you. Definitely appreciate the work you put into these videos.

@alcobufff

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Nothing to do with the locomotive, but at 0:20 note PORT Tower at Newport, PA. The classic PRR Keystone sign on the tower has been replaced by a green and white Penn Central sign. PORT would remain in service until the mid-1980' s, well into the Conrail era.

Excellent video!!!

9:19, The Image of an EMD F unit in front of 2 SDP40F’s is beautiful. The poor SDP40F’s were delved a Bad hand with the derailment issues. If only that water Issue was removed and the SDP40F’s were given HEP, then more would have survived.

I enjoyed this episode. Good info.

The uniqueness off this world is that if there is a product which is known unreliable, then the manufacturer decide to make a new product based on the existing product, somehow it is more reliable than models it's based on, and vice versa... Anyway, I like how F/FP45 looks... It is presenting masculine, tough, (a bit of) speed, and enormousity... Please make U.S locomotives history because I personally liked any U.S locomotives except for the GE locos that use the new prime mover rather than the widely known FDL series and the project of battery electric locos...

I love these series, keep them coming.

I always leave ADG's videos slightly less confused than I was

Excellent video! Keep up the good work.

@alcobufff

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

The SDP40F’s and F45 locomotives sure are impressive. If only more of them were preserved so that I could see them (I was born in 2006).

Someday I might have to paint an FP45 in Pere Marquette's blue and silver livery with the cream colored bow wave since the pointed FP45/F45 nose reminds me so much of the bows of the Navy ships Dad was on. Amtrak's SDP40 with its flattened nose spoils the look, true, it was cheaper to fabricate, but was much less attractive.

Here’s an interesting fact about both the GE U28CG and the U30CG. The steam generator housing was actually located in a space behind the cab and in front of the prime mover according to the Pentrex dvd program U-boat survivors.

I have a working HO Scale Model of the Santa Fe F45 in my collection.

Another video with great information although I have to say the F 45 I thought it was the ugliest of the EMDS THANKS a great history Lesson

@alcobufff

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

When I was younger in the late seventies Missouri Pacific lines offered through our Eagle Scouts training on the EMD 45 at the Missouri Pacific 13th Street Station.. for 32 weeks every Monday we would have book study from 7:30 until 9:30 in the evening and every Saturday from 8:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. we were allowed to go out in the shop and work on power cylinders putting them in taking them out and rebuilding them and learning every aspect of the engine the goal was to get us primed in order to go to work for Missouri Pacific lines unfortunately Missouri Pacific was absorbed by Union Pacific a few years later when I was fresh out of high school I went down and put in an application at the 13th Street Union Pacific station and they would not hire me I tried and I tried and I tried to get on with them even with the training they still wouldn't hire me never knew why but because of that training I can walk up to any train I know how to start it run it and maintain it

Very interesting.thanks

Amtrak should've gone for a Dash 2 version of the FP45 rather then the SDP40F, and it'll forever boggle my mind that they didn't do that.

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

Ultimately, water tanks for steam generators inside the carbody were not a good idea. The Milwaukee also had problems with their FP45s at passenger train speeds when their track deteriorated, as well, although not as bad as the SDP40F, so the Milwaukee ultimately switched to using them as trailing units only on passenger trains until Amtrak took over. The HEP equipped SDP40Fs rode better than the same units with water tanks, but still rougher than a four-axle unit, so they did likewise for the most part.

The Santa Fe had zero problems with the SDP40F on their system!!! This is why they bought several of them, with no derailment problems with any of them!!!

Have a great new week!!

I almost feel that the CP SD40-2F should be included in this video.

The Santa Fe never had a single derailment with the SDP40F!!! The derailments happened on the BN, the L&N, and Conrail. An EMD rep who was at the scene of the Conrail derailment was able to pull all of the spikes out of 18 ties in a row. The derailment was then attributed to poor track structure!!!

The F45, Santa Fe’s SDP40F knock off

I'm surprised that the F 45 ain't bad about getting derailed like SDP40F amtrak

I wish they kept the FP45 still

That BN unit shown is an SDP40, not an SDP45.

The F40C looks very very similar

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

Yes, it was another related development.

I have a Santa Fe sdp40f in my layout but the MP is putting it in storage.

Interesting video, pity that there are so many factual errors in it. They grate, even for this Brit. As an example, Amtrak's SDP40Fs had no derailment problems on the ATSF, but plenty on Conrail, L&N and BN's ex CB&Q trackage. The problems only occured on inferior track. (As an aside, the worst overnight journey I have ever experienced was between Denver and Chicago on train 5 - we were being thrown all over the place). It was a little like the problem that the Southern Railway (in Britain) had with it's 'River' class 4-6-4s. On good track they rode well, but on the under maintained track they normally ran on they had a tendency to derail. This culminated with a major incident near Sevenoaks with multiple passenger fatalities. The need to replace the SDP40Fs with F40s was a reflection of the abysmal track standards so common on US railroads in the 70's and 80's. Also, the Santa Fe introduced the 'war bonnet' design (it was suggested by EMD's design studio) in 1937 on the E1s, not in the 50's. The Alco PAs had A1A trucks (three axles but only two had motors) like the EMD E units. One of the reasons that the Santa Fe and the Great Northern went for F-units for passenger service instead of E-units was that with all axles driven they did better on the grades, something those two roads had a plenty. The later cowl units (both GE and EMD) had 3 axle trucks with all powered, so were also able to use their full weight for adhesion.

@alcobufff

Жыл бұрын

While you are right on the introduction of the war bonnet and the PA trucks, I must have gotten things confused, I must correct you on the SDP40F's. The FRA concluded that while the track conditions were a contributing factor, The main issues, In addition to the steam generator water tanks, may have also been the light weight baggage cars Amtrak was using at that time, setting up vibrations, caused by the difference in weight between them and the SDP40f's. These vibrations would jerk the SDP40f's off the track. All this said, the E and F units did not suffer anywhere near as many derailments as the SDP40F's did. So the issue still points to these locomotives as the problem. Thanks for watching!

These locomotives make good work for the scrappers torches. New locomotives are much better and safer.

What did GE do with the old Alcos they got from trade ins? Parts? Resale? Scrap?

@alcobufff

Жыл бұрын

That's a good question, They did both. While quite a few were scarped some were saved. For example, when BC rail traded GE a class of MLW built Alcos toward new locomotives, these were sold south of the boarder to the all Alco Pacficco railroad. Thanks for watching

What about amtraks SDP40 .Rail rippers

no F40C mention?

Apparently not one photo of a Milwaukee Road FP45 exists.

@markwilliams2620

Жыл бұрын

Now, Lenny, it would be in UP livery for passenger work. I can do without that. No Borg on Lines West.

@texaspony

Жыл бұрын

@@markwilliams2620 Your failure to grasp my sarcasm is incredible. I found many photos of Milwaukee Road FP45s. The comment was directed toward the video creator. BTW they were repainted into freight colors after the Amtrak takeover.

@keystonedriving8180

Жыл бұрын

@@markwilliams2620 They were in Orange and Black for many years prior to the City trains being rerouted from CNW to Milwaukee Road. That was when they (and Milwaukee passenger cars) got UP colours to match the trains.

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

@@keystonedriving8180 1955 is when the UP City trains were shifted to the Milwaukee Road, and these units were ordered after 1960 (I’d have to look up the exact year), but it is true that the Milwaukee Road used orange for passenger trains before 1955. They realized that the UP colors were less work to maintain, so they wound up adopting it for the whole passenger fleet afterwards!

Can the f40phs be considered as F units?

7:26 The warbonnet scheme was first introduced in 1937 on the EMC E1, not the 1950s.

Note to some posters. In a mid 60's issue of MRC a scratch builder was bemoaning the bane of train show competitions. This was back when scratch building meant using an engine lathe. His point was nothing was more frustrating spending a year turning out a model only to have a rivet counter view it and inform him how wonderful it was.....except for the years the Espee had the dual air pump on that side of the loco the number font was 12", not 14". They only did that for 8 months. He recalled it was annoying and disheartening at the same time. To quote from David Fletcher on _Tank Chats_ "That's all good, but keep it to yourself, nobody wants to hear it.". Edit: Lake ov pruf reddin.

🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃👍😊

Your comments about the early EMD 645-V20s are somewhat disingenuous and some correction is due. You mentioned cracked blocks, but that statement suggests the blocks were cast like automotive engine blocks. Locomotive blocks are built up, being fabricated from heavy plate steel, not cast. If there is a crack somewhere it simply gets welded. If it shows signs of a leak in the cylinder, it's simply a matter of changing the power assemblies. As to the broken crankshafts, it was simply a matter of the original design of the V20 welded block assembly not being stiff enough, allowing the block to flex, and it would distort under high loadings, causing the crank main bearing races to misalign and twist the crankshaft out of alignment, causing the failure. This was noticed shortly after the early production units began being released and tested by the customer railroads. It was remedied early on with a block redesign by EMD adding more reinforcing plates and webs inside the assembly to give it much more rigidity. EMD offered warranty replacement blocks and cranks for the early design prime movers, but not all owners opted to do the replacement. It's a tribute to the original design that the Great Northern #400 'Hustle Muscle', that recently had to have its prime mover replaced, had never gotten the replacement block and crank in it's half-century lifetime. It was replaced by a 645-V20 from a Santa Fe SD45-2 and has been returned to serviceability.