"We're going to win by saving what we love" -Someone who just prevented someone from saving who they love

@khornethegrim8258

Жыл бұрын

And committing treason to the Resistance. Seriously, how was she not jailed as a traitor for preventing Fin from saving them all?

@shok24199

Жыл бұрын

That speech should have ended with: "We'll win by saving what we..." The end is cut off because she just took a sniper bolt to the dome after crashing both ships only a dozen meters from the enemy frontline.

@Edax_Royeaux

Жыл бұрын

@@shok24199 "If we kill the enemy, they win"

@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530

Жыл бұрын

Right -- um ... who and what are not logically identical lmao

@bridgetsilver7332

Жыл бұрын

Oh, I detested that moment! Rose stops Finn from saving countless lives… all so she can kiss him??

I have seen the OT movies about 15-20 times each, the prequels 3-5 times each, and recent Star Wars films once each, I suspect this is true for many.

@shanenolan8252

2 жыл бұрын

It is for me , maybe twice each for sequels. ( cant count the the others)

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

Very true.

@freelancenerd4804

2 жыл бұрын

Ur exactly right! Spot on!

@rathenslog8490

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen TFA 3 times TLJ once and RoS twice

@davfree9732

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, I saw TFA twice, realised the problem with TFA indicated a problem and held back to read the user reviews for TLJ. TFA's problem is that it is has a delicious looking outer crust but cut into it and the inside is hollow. It spends its time setting up things for the next movie. Thus TFA could only become a good film if all the unfired Chekov guns, started to payoff... Then TLJ happened and lowered TFA's worth to a brain dead popcorn film that caps the experience off with the death of a loved character, only to see them replaced with cardboard cutout characters.

“Its not morale complexity, its moral nihilism.” Love that

@JamesRDavenport

Жыл бұрын

Yes. To these people, the new self-aggrandizing artistes, Moral Nihilism *IS* progress. They think it's refreshing and grownup to lose hope and heroes. They believe Moral Nihilism is reality. Anything else to such people is candied lies. That humans like to run from the inevitable darkness in hope, religion and myth. They are wrong, but assuming they were correct, why hijack our fictions to evangelize us with their pet Nihilism? What is to be gained if everything is meaningless?

@blacklivesorblackvotes2985

Жыл бұрын

@@aishaalamoudi599 your comment has nothing to do with the point being made. Lol you’re just shouting nonsense because you can’t defend this shitty film and it’s nihilistic ass message. Your “mUh plot power up” argument does nothing to counter what was said, nor is it relevant.

@DemonicRemption

10 ай бұрын

@nshandy Indeed, because it's true.

@mrdropkicker1

5 ай бұрын

The only people who say “good and evil are just points of view,” are those trying to justify some unequivocally evil shit… do not trust them

The whole argument that fans were somehow wrong to be curious about Rey’s family always confused me. We didn’t latch onto it. TFA made it her only real desire. We're getting patronizing lectures from TLJ worshippers for daring to get invested in something the previous movie deliberately called attention to.

@arafat2924

Жыл бұрын

YES! that was literally the ONLY thing to latch onto in Rey's "characterization", if you could call it that. Especially if you wanted to like her (and I did). One of the many reasons why TLJ just "feels wrong" even without being willing or able to look for objective flaws

@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530

Жыл бұрын

Who is invested in Rey AT ALL? What about Hux? Or the other characters - do they not matter? LOL

@alexhayden219

Жыл бұрын

Might I add that TLJ was written while TFA was being finished, not after it was released. RJ started trolling fans while filming TLJ that were invested in what TFA presented, but he didn't write any of it in reaction to fans. He wrote it as a sequel to an at-the-time unfinished movie. I think this is also why every character, not just Luke, seems like at least slightly (sometimes largely) different characters with the same skin. He wasn't writing the script with the final versions in mind. He wrote it with his interpretations of someone else's unfinished versions of characters in mind. It was a terrible way of making a trilogy from top to bottom.

@caffineandshiny

Жыл бұрын

@@alexhayden219 like you said it's a terrible way of making a trilogy. The OT wasn't even planned to go past to first film, yet it was more coherent. And there's no excuse for him not working closer with JJ to iron out all those details, finished or not. What it comes down to is just a blatant lack of care tbh. And as far as Luke was concerned, and Leia, he had 40 years to learn about their characters.

@mework1871

Жыл бұрын

@@examiningkubrickphilosofia1530 I was invested in team Finn and Poe. I did like Daisy Ridley, and found her interesting in TFA. I even defended the Mary Sue claims in TFA. The following movies proved me wrong, and she was a Mary Sue

"that's how we're going to win ..not by destroying what we hate. Saving what we love." As the base housing the ones they need to save gets blasted in a huge explosion behind them. 😑

@BWMagus

Жыл бұрын

Rose almost comes across as a stalker--you know, the kind that tries to control you to make sure you don't do anything that might risk your "relationship", who sabotages your car so you won't attempt to go to work following a snow storm.

@FluffyBunniesOnFire

Жыл бұрын

That was the moment I gave up on the trilogy. Still have never watched TRoS.

@ericpeterson8732

Жыл бұрын

She did it all for the nookie!

@alexhayden219

Жыл бұрын

Not at all defending the moment because it's so cringe, but it was obviously intentional, as is much of what Rian puts in his movies that "we" don't like. It's a moment that I don't just roll my eyes over. I kind of fluctuate between finding it incredibly out of place/nonsensical, and finding it vaguely amusing. The thing that I don't think people understand about Rian (and this includes all of his defenders, because I haven't seen this explanation or defense from, really, anyone) is that he isn't a serious filmmaker/story teller. It's just not possible, because of what he intentionally puts in dialogue and on screen. He portrays himself as one, and critics and audiences believe what they're told, but it's moments (many, many, many moments) like this that I believe portray him to be a purposeful troll and deliberately presenting absurdist humor as if it's to be taken seriously. There is just no way that this moment happened and he wasn't giggling over it and how surreal it is. I do believe him to be fairly intelligent, but I believe his intelligence is being used to constantly amuse himself, while he claims that it's deep and serious and the public just believes him. Moments like this moment are too numerous in his films to just accidentally happen. He's having a gay ol' time and even his fans don't understand that.

@daciannation5847

Жыл бұрын

@@FluffyBunniesOnFire Good it's so much worse than the Last Jedi and that's a crazy accomplishment

A nice bandaid would have been to make Rose a First Order spy, wanting revenge for the resistence brainwashing her sister into suicidal loyalty. She derails Finn's plan to find the hacker. She causes chaos to rally the Vegas weapons dealers against the resistence. She stops Finn from sacrificing himself and realizing she didn't die in the crash, says something stupid and kisses him. Than it makes sense why the First Order let Finn and Rose escape to the under-assault resistance base. So Rose's terrible dialogue is all acting. But that's effort, and modern Disney doesn't want that. Their motto is quantity over quality.

@UnitSe7en

Жыл бұрын

Oh. Yeah. I forgot Rose had a sister apparently. Funny that.

@thedabblingwarlock

Жыл бұрын

@@UnitSe7en Because she was "introduced" and killed off within the first ten minutes of the movie. It's part of a disturbing trend I noticed in that if Disney wants you to feel sad, they'll show you a young woman in dire straights and then kill her off before you even learn her name. Between Rebels and the TLJ, a female A-wing pilot who is not part of the main cast has about a minute of screen time before they are killed off. Rose's sister is more of the same, a deliberate cheap shot in the hopes of eliciting an emotional reaction. And I say it's disturbing because it shows a shallowness and lack of self-awareness in the writing staff. Part of yourself is going to show through your writing no matter what. What does it say about the writers that, whenever they want to drop the hammer on our feelings, they introduce a new female character whom we have never met before and kill her off inside of five minutes? I think the pilot in TLJ actually lived the longest, surviving about ten minutes from first appearance to dying in the hangar explosion.

Lucas had said multiple times SW is a family soap opera. Literally the skeleton of the story so yes there is a reason family connections is a huge connection throughout the saga

@normalgraham

10 ай бұрын

I mean, that excuse works for a single trilogy with a focused narrative and a satisfying conclusion. If you just keep adding on to a soap opera by providing new information but basically never do anything to advance any kind of interesting plot or themes or anything beyond "family," you wind up with horseshit like the Sequel Trilogy

@peteypiranalover

10 ай бұрын

@normalgraham i would argue it works perfectly for the Lucas saga. Lucas has never been great communicating on the spot what he means. So Family Soap Opera is the best we got. The sequels didnt understand this. Why do u think fans were so enveloped in Rey's parents? Because it plays into the main theme of Star Wars and could explain much of her abilities. Last Jedi makes her a nobody which was bad due to timing. If you want change that fact about the series you have to do it at the start of the trilogy. Even Palpatine could have worked to an extent if it was setup earlier. Especially if he didnt come back alive.

@peteypiranalover

8 ай бұрын

@normalgraham not nessacarily pends on execution. But since Force Awakens started the story it would have been for JJ to lead the nobody angle if wanted and make it lore consistent with the other 6 movies. Rian's job was to tell a middle chapter and he either 2 of 3 or even more importantly 8 of 9. Scribbled over JJ and George. Hard ended the story. So Ep 9 was screwed from tbe getgo. I dont fault Rise of Skywalker as badly as the other 2 even if it may be the worst. Most of the crap stems from the other 2 kneecapping Rise.

Finn was the only genuinely interesting character out of the initial movie. What they did to him is unforgivable.

@alfalldoot6715

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I remember all the advertising for TFA was framing him as the main character or something similar but then Rey just showed up and stole everything...

@billybarnett9518

2 ай бұрын

I liked Poe as well actually, he could've benefitted from more screen time and better writing. Honestly, I think Finn and Poe should've gone on another adventure in TLJ instead of adding Rose.

@billybarnett9518

2 ай бұрын

@Al Fall Doot I heard a compliant from someone who had avoided all trailers before TFA, and they thought Finn was the main character before being disappointed by the fact that he wasn't.

@Maladjester

10 күн бұрын

"Good to meet you, Poe!" "Good to meet you too, Finn!" I was _so ready_ for these guys to be major characters, and friends. The new Han and Luke. Finn in particular was clearly supposed to be Force-sensitive and play a significant part. Teasing something like that and then ditching it for the blundering wet fart of a "story" he got instead is just one of the long list of crimes in the sequels.

I consider the sequel trilogy to be the ultimate case - and failure - of the classic proverbial ‘horse designed by committee = camel’ . . .

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

That’s certainly true of TFA and TROS. They had the opposite problem with TLJ- essentially just one guy’s first draft green-lit without review. Ditto the prequels. Ideally you have one or two writers with a clear vision, and a few others who read and review it. Basically what anyone who has ever written anything does- myself included.

@tomnorton4277

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon Unlike Disney's train wreck, the Prequels had a coherent story because George Lucas knows how to write. Say what you will about the dialogue - it was 100% intentional and Lucas confirms that on the DVD commentary when he outright calls Anakin and Padme's romance awkward - but the Prequels were written by a professional screenwriter who knows how to do his job. The Disney Trilogy was written by complete hacks who have no idea how to write a story.

@mework1871

Жыл бұрын

A camel that spits on the people that feed it

I actually never considered myself a big fan of Luke as a child, always liking other characters more. However, I found myself home after viewing TLJ, in a bizarre state of grief. Whether I had known it or not, Luke Skywalker shaped my childhood almost entirely, as my love for the films he is the protagonist of has set me on a career path and more. And then I watched him butchered literally and metaphorically on screen, almost an allegory that not only was my childhood dead, but the hope that I had as a child is considered by Rian Johnson as something to be mocked and discarded, only to be replaced by vague ideology.

"The Last Jedi, the best film in Star Wars," yes it is, if the desired effect is to totally destroy the franchise and drive fans away, it succeeds perfectly with that, as for it being the most divisive movie in Star Wars, I'd take it a step further, it's the most divisive in recent cinema history, in my opinion, kick starting the massive slew of crap in other things in recent years

@teamtundra2619

Жыл бұрын

Nah

@daverobson3084

Жыл бұрын

I don't agree that it was " the best" of the new trilogy( I liked TFA somewhat , mostly for them at least trying to make it a " Star Wars movie" , and hated TLJ, and have never, and will probably never, see TRoS) but , then, being the best of a bucket of stinking offal is still being the best of a bucket of stinking offal.

@blacklivesorblackvotes2985

10 ай бұрын

@@daverobson3084 you didn’t read the comment my dude.

@daverobson3084

10 ай бұрын

@@blacklivesorblackvotes2985 Actually I commented on the wrong post. I think.

@daverobson3084

10 ай бұрын

@@blacklivesorblackvotes2985 Either way. Oops.

With the benefit of hindsight, the overarching issue with the sequel trilogy, was the lack of an overarching story. Before a single scene of the Force Awakens was shot, the entire trilogy story should have already been written, pinning down character arcs and all the key plot points. The fact that this wasn't done, was a fatal error. To my own experience. On watching the Force Awakens, it gradually dawned on me that what I was watching was a warmed over version of A New Hope. I was glad that we had more Star Wars, but what I really wanted was a continuation of the story from Return of the Jedi... instead it was rehashed New Hope with a mix of old and new characters. That being said, I was happy to give The Last Jedi the benefit of the doubt. I was disappointed - up to the point of Luke milking the green milk titty-monster, then I was disgusted - not by the titty-monster, or the milking, so much - there's a time and a place for that - but by the fact that this was what the director had chosen to give screen time to, rather than say, Luke's response to hearing of Han's death - for example. I don't see there can be any defence of TLJ in the context of it being film 8 of 9. It should have been building on the foundations of the previous film, setting up for a significant payoff in film 9, instead it was far too preoccupied with undermining what film 7 had laid down. Things went seriously off the rail's story-wise by killing off Snoke. That seemed like a spiteful move, just as two fingers to the fans - "you'd never guess I'd be prepared to do that!" - kind of thing. Which is true, it was a surprise. Just like blowing Leia out into space (the audience by that point knowing the actress that played her was already dead) only to have her Mary Poppins back into the ship. By which point, as a viewer, I was thinking, well... if Leia can do that, Ray can do anything, there are no stakes. The only investment I had in the film at the end was with Fin, something genuinely character meaningful was threatening to happen, Fin killing himself to save the rebellion, would have been something. And in a meta sense, I was thinking, this was indeed a brave move for the filmmaker to kill off one of the "diverse" actors in such a way and deny them the next film. But no... it was all for naught. And what Rose Tico said made no sense, more like pouring acid in the wound for Fin's character, being prevented from saving his friends by someone who seemed to have lost all connection with what was taking place. To conclude my bitter tirade, the Rise of Skywalker was doomed from the start, it could only ever be a car crash because there was no through arc between films 7 and 8. Essentially, 9 tried to make a trilogy from whole cloth, using the previous films as little more than a selection of colour swatches, the result was a dog's dinner. In the shit sandwich that was the sequel trilogy, TLJ was unquestionably the shit.

@OdaManjiro

Жыл бұрын

Late, but tragically it was planned. George Lucas had a WIP screenplay and plenty of notes. None of this was used for anything aside from very early concept art. Disney dropped all of it. Many cancelled Star Wars videogames would have tied into this hypothetical trilogy.

@mizu7662

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I knew that we were fucked from the moment Disney announced their brilliant plan to have each movie in the trilogy overseen by a different person. Displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of the fact that a trilogy is 3 parts of a single story and not 3 separate stories that happen to have the same cast of main characters in them. You don't tell a single story by chopping it into 3 pieces and telling 3 separate people to go wild and do whatever they want in their section of the story without regard for the other two sections.

@MK-jx2lu

Жыл бұрын

This is accurate, the last Jedi ruined any chance of 9 being good. They really should have planned them all out.

@Capjedi

11 ай бұрын

I'm so glad that someone pointed out these flaws, as I would have to watch it over, to get even a sense of what went wrong. That, I will not do. Ever.

@davejones9469

10 ай бұрын

Well, the OT wasn't fully planned out, hence the infamous Luke and Leia kiss. That was retconned for the sequels. The trick is not hiring a hack writer who looks like a pudgy little folk singer who would cower under harsh criticism...*and JJ lol.

It's always strangely cathartic to plum the murky depths of TLJ's awfulness. Thank you for the good analysis. I have an observation on a small but significant point. That bit about Finn and Dameron deserving "an equal amount of attention." That's the voice of the "progressive artist" rallying the audience against "privilege." Those who have "privilege" oppress the disadvantaged, in fiction just as in real life. In real life social structures do the oppressing, and in fiction narrative structures do. In this radical desire to eliminate all inequality everything and everyone is just as important as everything and everyone else. But meaning itself disappears as everything sinks into a limbo of undifferentiated nothingness. Radicalism starts out as idealism, but in it's own extremism it sours into nihilism. And nihilists write boring, pretentious, and meaningless stories.

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

That’s a very interesting point, and not one I’d considered in this context. We know, of course, that it’s possible to split attention between characters - the OT did this remarkably well. But in that context, it was because the characters deserved it and the story required it. Each of them had their own version of the classical hero’s journey, which is precisely the reason it worked. Now, however, the desire to do so because it’s subversive rather than because it reaffirms classical tropes and archetypes is, as you say, *at least* analogous to the broader cultural theme of deconstruction, and has probably drawn significantly from the underlying theory whether it consciously mimics it or not. Thanks, in turn, for prompting that consideration. Brilliant point!

@seanledden4397

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon Absolutely we can split our attention between different characters! - when it's not done to prove radical theory. (Johnson, like all ideologues, is a philistine and a hack.) One movie that does it very well is "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World." It follows a bunch of hysterical buffoons all scrambling to make the big score. It's "Lord of the Flies" played for laughs, and I adore it. Oh, and there's a great scene where Terry Thomas plays an exasperated Brit who launches into a screed against America's obsession with "bosoms." A must see! 😁

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanledden4397 Added to the list!

@quiltingrox

Жыл бұрын

Seriously, I think Star Wars needed to look at Harry Potter and specifically the relationship building and time given to Harry, Ron, and Hermione for character development and the triangle relationship for inspiration. They arguably are second or third largest movie franchise besides Marvel and Star Wars and gained massive success. I love Han, Luke, and Leia but arguably Harry, Ron, and Hermione are a better trio and was hoping for that dynamic to blossom in the Sequel trilogy under Disney. Disney completely botched their own games and expectations they laid for us. They are a family and entertainment industry who fails in many areas to provide a good family and entertaining film for its fans. The dynamic between Rey, Po, and Finn was almost non existent and super inconsistent per sequel film. I felt no connection between them even though they tried so hard to get them together and do Trio relationship stuff in The Rise of Skywalker. TLJ needed to be that bridge for the audience to see how their relationships grow and their characters become more defined

@TankHunter678

Жыл бұрын

@@quiltingrox What helped Harry Potter was the fact they had a lot more then 3 movies to develop, they could afford to go slow and build brick by brick a lot of depth into the relationship.

And then there's the fact that the penultimate entry in a series should provide a payoff more most of the previous setups. TLJ not only threw away those setups, but it threw away the story, characterization, and meaning behind the series up to that point. For narrative reasons, it just DOESN'T WORK as a part of a greater series. Aside from the quality of the film, it's simply a failure in terms of storytelling. Subverting expectations can work extraordinarily well when it raises new questions and expands on the pre-established lore. It does NOT work when the answer to every question raised is "actually, that doesn't matter." Star Wars was already wavering after TFA, but I personally think that movie still left enough plot threads that the story could have potentially been salvaged in the two sequels. TLJ annihilated all of those plot threads and left the story with nowhere to go in Episode IX. (I'm NOT a fan of JJ Abrams, but I don't think anyone could've repaired the damage to the franchise and brought the story to a satisfying conclusion in just one movie.) The Last Jedi is indefensible because it fundamentally undermines not just the Sequel Trilogy, but the "Skywalker Saga" as a whole. The inconsistent portrayals of iconic characters and a few instances of decisions that challenge or conflict with pre-established lore make it even worse, but judging it as a part of a series, the movie fails even without those other flaws.

@21stcenturyhiphop

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's terrible.

Thank you for making these. It’s rare to hear people making sense.

“For over a thousand generations the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic, before the dark times, before the empire.” Those lines have sparked more wonder and imagination than anything when I was young. From the moment I saw Jedi in 1983 nothing was bigger than Star Wars. It sparked my love for movies, story telling, mythology, science in general. Luke Skywalker was my original truly heroic character. He showed me the importance of family, friends, loyalty and perseverance in the face of adversity. “There is good in him, I’ve felt it.” In spite of all the evil he has done, Luke could still sense good in Vader. This is something to aspire to, the believe in good, forgiveness and redemption.

Pretty much the only thing that can be answered in the whole Disney trilogy is who/how concerning the First Order. There was still an Empire after ROTJ and the formation of the New Republic. There was a large area of space near the core of the galaxy where the policitcal remnants of the Empire set up shop and continued as they had, just at a limited, isolated level. But they did have fantasies of eventually attacking and defeating the New Republic. And then there were sectors on the edge of the New Republic where the Imperial Moff or Governor there declared themselves dictaroship over their sectors. They built up their own private military and considered themselves Imperials, preparing for the counter-attack that was sure to come. And then there were Governors or Admirals with a fleet that were basicly pirates and warlords. They had Imperial vessels and equipment that they fled with. And they all fought against each other when they met cus each thought the others were traitors and cowards. This is all acording to the Literary Canon, written by authors that shared notes as to not contradict one another and were Lucas-approved. There was lots of bad literature too... but there is a handfull of authors that produced whats considered THE Literary Canon. And, I hate to say cus it's been used as a decent criticism of the sequel movies ...the Emperor was actually cloned... several times... and alive. And there is a Sith planet thats hard to find with black holes around it and what not. And the NeoEmpire did manage to work together on a large scale and assault the New Republic and gain a bunch of territory that was later liberated. They had resources and a large population, militaries and shipyards. That was all Canon. The Solo kids did go to Luke's Dojo and the brother Jacen was lured to the dark side by what would be the Kylo Ren charachter... K-mart Vader. And a student did kill a bunch of other students after being manipulated by a Sith Force Ghost he was talking to. And Luke blamed himself and questioned if he should be teaching the next generation of Jedi. All that actually happened. But the movies failed to even hint at it. And they altered pretty much all the "whos" to a level that made no sense at all. They didn't explain anything. And what they did explain doesn't make sense and/or is very convoluted. There is like 100 potential movie trilogies in the Star Wars Literary Universe. Any of them would have been better than the Disney trilogy. They had access to all these stories that all the nerds already accepted and loved. Guarenteed hits. They were aware of them surely, the stole plot elements from several of them and then clumsily shoehorned them in. All of the dumbest and most inexplicable parts of the sequel movies came straight from the Literary Universe. The stories they were stolen from were good, well written and interesting. But they were so poorly interpreted and executed that they became preposterous, nonsensical or even story-breaking. Its the same thing as Rings of Power. Hacks writers theiving from superior authors, perverting them into "original" screenplays that are the result of an inability to understand or respect the original source. Or maybe I really am just a racist sexist bigoted alt-right extremist and part of a Cabal of ultra-conservatives hellbent on keepin' women, coloreds and queers out our male power fantasy movies, and Disney heroically saved Star Wars from its former state as a chauvinistic misogynist affirmation.

Being someone who was born in the early 2000s and having a dad that grew up collecting vintage star wars collectibles, I was introduced to Star Wars at a young age and specifically the ot because the prequels were still being released. At the age of 3, my mom has told me, I was quoting the entire start of the ESB. From the end of the title crawl because obviously a 3 y.o. can’t recite all of that to when Luke leaves for Degoba I was absolutely hooked on watching those movies over and over again. Most of the free time I’ve had to explore the internet in my life I’ve dedicated to reading and watching everything star wars so when they announced the new trilogy I was beyond excited, being still a kid and all not having a clue or caring much about the people that were making it just that they were. Coming out of theaters after watching TFA I was a little disappointed but couldn’t see the whole trilogy being that way. After TLJ my jaw was dropped and my friends literally had to drag me in to watch the last edition. I have no clue how anyone can see a hint of those films being decent.

@teamtundra2619

Жыл бұрын

@Connor Quigley is it illegal to like things anymore??

A lot of people tried to get me to watch TLJ and say it's not that bad because Knives Out wasn't bad. They also told me that Rian Johnson was very passionate during the BluRay Behind the Scenes specials. I don't think any of these mean that TLJ was a good movie, nor does it prove that Rian cares about Star Wars. All it told me was that he had talent - but he did not necessarily apply it to TLJ - and that he cared about his movie - but not that he cared about the franchise as a whole. My conclusion from this, then, is that he cared about TLJ the same way he cared about his one sand castle in the sand box that is Star Wars. It was a fanfiction at best (self-indulgent enjoyment of the franchise without regards for the consequences), a vanity project of sorts at worst (just a way to flaunt his skills with no regards for Star Wars' fans or legacy or even continuity).

Luke about to murder his sleeping nephew is abhorrent writing. Almost as atrocious as "Rey Skywalker." Disney killed all the Skywalkers and had Palpatine's bloodline steal the name.

My biggest problem with how they retconned the Holdo maneuver is because there is a VERY simple explanation as to why that isn’t a good idea. All they had to say is something to the effect of “And how many pilots do we have to kamikaze before this war is over?” Or they literally could have said “We can’t just kamikaze all of our pilots.” The simple solution was there, but god forbid they take the easy route.

@av3902

Жыл бұрын

that explanation doesn't work, they could just program droids to do it

@thedabblingwarlock

Жыл бұрын

But they wouldn't have to. They just need a computer to fly the ship and targeting criteria. If they wanted, they could use droids (though that comes with its own set of ethical issues out-universe.) Even with the limited computing technology of the Star Wars universe, it wouldn't be that hard to make a missile that's basically a drive, fuel, hyperdrive, and however much mass they need to make it crack whatever the target is. It's already established canon that you need a nav computer to safely make hyperspace jumps. All you need to do in this case is change the criteria for the calculations to crack open a big target at the start of the jump instead of make it safely to your destination. So no, that's not the simple explanation that you make it out to be.

@iug5672

Жыл бұрын

​@@thedabblingwarlock It's honestly quite intriguing how technology and innovation(even innovative thinking) seems to always somehow be descending in the Star Wars universe. Like the death star is a pretty redundant invention for the almost unopposed galactic empire to have since 20 thousand years ago you could just bomb a whole planet with a fleet of ships. It would require the universe to be too self-aware for comfort for this to be addressed in-universe but I always wondered if there is a reason for that in the many many comics there are. Like yeah, people just didn't think of doing that maneuver, ever. Even with the statistics angle that canon introduces, wouldn't they still try to weaponize hyperdrives even with the low odds? It's not like we gave up on Catapults or firearms just cause it wasn't a 100% effective strategy.

@thedabblingwarlock

Жыл бұрын

@@iug5672 This, exactly this. You'd have to posit an utterly alien mindset for no one to have thought about this before. It's one of the reasons that I don't buy the arguments of Star Wars being a hard sci-fi universe.

@madmonkeys88

8 ай бұрын

​@@iug5672if I remember right the reason the empire wanted the death star was to be a giant metaphorical dick. I:e to show everyone the power of the empire, it's dominance, and to present them as the penultimate power of the universe. In the EU I think it was because Sideous foresaw some giant alien race that was going to invade, but I never read any of that so have no clue if it is true or not. For empires, presentation is very important because it sticks in people's minds. When people think of the empire they think of the giant fucking death star, even if building a vast fleet would have been more practical and useful for more situations. All of this is just my opinion though, and I could be writing for a story flaw.

“Strap in or..strap on, as you prefer” 😂 Never has the tone been set so appropriately in so few syllables you master wordsmith you. Rewatching the while waiting on more rings of power content from ya mate

When you were talking about Fin's stolen sacrifice is even worse since at that time she would be under the impresion thta they were trapped in the bunker, a bunker that was moments from being busted open and all her allies being gunned down like fish in a barrel. Save what you love indeed.

This review started off so good! I could not get over the Shakespeare choking someone with his manuscript comment I literally laughed through the entire review

I’ve noticed that a lot of people that like the sequel trilogy or go out of their way to defend them are people who only recently got into Star Wars due to it becoming immensely popular again with the release of Force Awakens. They’ve either never seen the other six films or say they never connected to them. It’s difficult to argue with them or hell them understand how detrimental this film is because they simply don’t care about the overall story and lore.

@deadpool-xr6dr

7 ай бұрын

I don't understand, the three sequels are sh!tty movies as standalone.

Man I enjoyed listening to these while I work.. No one in my personal circle understands why the sequels suck, not really. When I saw TLJ I felt off but didn't know how to identify why, other than my childhood hero being a dope. These videos helped flesh out what I was feeling. Thanks bro

It's so much worse for Po though. He's treated throughout the movie that his decision in the beginning was a bad thing, when objectively it wasn't. If he didn't the Resistance would have fallen right then and there. He devised a plan to take out a Dreadnaught. Succeeded in that plan, allowing the Resistance to escape. And then blamed for the lives lost even though the brass agreed to his plan in the first place. It was a correct plan that succeeded in its objective.

Something else worth mentioning about Poe and his "arc." He was correct in his "costly gambit" simply because if he had not done it that giant "Fleet Killer" ship with it's long range cannon would have been part of the fleet chasing the resistance and they'd all be dead. Holdo and Leia essentially punish him for saving all of their lives.

@thedabblingwarlock

Жыл бұрын

That is a point I had not considered before. I'd argue that it's still a breach of military discipline (the Resistance being a military force in at least some capacity and Poe being a New Republic Officer should have known better) and that the circumstances that make it a valid point are still stupid and contrived. It's still, however, a valid point in the context of the movie.

@williamcronshaw5262

Жыл бұрын

@@thedabblingwarlock That's the thing though; The movie doesn't argue that what Poe did was bad because he was being insubordinate. The movie continuously points out that he "made a bad call that cost lives", even after hindsight proved that he actually made the correct call and that all of them would be dead if he had followed orders. The script is basically unaware of itself.

@thedabblingwarlock

Жыл бұрын

@@williamcronshaw5262 Yup and the script writers are unaware of how logic works as well. Running low on fuel? Let's not transfer the fuel on the other ships to the one that can carry everyone and scuttle the other two. Need to evacuate in deep space? Leave the captain on board to die with the ship instead of telling the computer to have the ship fly in a straight line. We're an insurgency that might have to leave town in a hurry? Let's not make damn sure that the tanks on our transports are always topped off as much as we're able to. We're chasing down a ragtag fleet of three ships with almost no fuel left that we can track through hyperspace? Let's not jump a squadron of Star Destroyers ahead of the fleet as well as behind them to catch them in a pincer. Trust me, I'm not disagreeing with you. By the movie's own logic Poe was in the right and if he hadn't disobeyed orders and lead that suicidal attack on the pizza-slice of doom the fleet would have been dead meat. I am saying that the writers are by all appearances idiots that have no grasp of logic. They need X to happen, so X happens come hell or high water, damn the logic of the setting or the logic of the real world.

"...all the hallmarks of thought-free appreciation." Bravo sir.

I suspect people like the article's "author" don't like aspirational characters because aspiring to something requires work, dedication, and sacrifice. Better to drag things down to your level so that you can have the illusion of achieving parity without having to actually improve yourself. If nobody is good or bad, and if investing yourself into valuable relationships is pointless then you can settle for being an unlikeable, morally repugnant troll without judgement.

New to your channel and absolutely love it. Being an autodidact by necessity I've learned to value the use of proper words and analysis. Thanks so much ❤️

@TheLittlePlatoon

Жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard! This channel is basically built on autodidacticism, so you’re in good company.

I saw TLJ once, and it was the last SW I ever watched. At the end, I had that feeling in the chest when you deal with your first bad breakup. Like a black hole in your chest sucking in your will to live. Also, just thought of a new issue with the Holdo manouvre. That kind of kinetic impact would cause a massive pressure burst through the whole ship, tearing it apart completely. Then a bunch would be blown into space. Kind of how the space Leia scene forgets she survives EXPLOSIVE decompression before even flyinng, an even bigger feat. She should've been turned into jam.

THIS WOMAN DIDN’T EVEN PROOFREAD HER ARTICLE!!!!

I agreed with Dick The Birthday Boy when he described TLJ as “sporadically interesting”. I liked the _idea_ of Luke cutting himself off from the force and giving up. I didn’t like how it was executed. For a decent comparison, see Sharpe’s Challenge. Richard Sharpe is retired and living as a farmer in France. His soldiering days are behind him and he doesn’t believe himself to be the legend he is. Until Wellington calls him back to duty, sends him to India, and Sharpe is forced to take command - where he shows he is still as good a soldier as he ever was. He is still a legend. This is what I wanted to see with Luke. But they turned him into a shambles. They did the same thing with Jay-Elle Picard in Star Trek Picard. That is *not* Jean-Luc Picard from TNG. Jean-Luc is a legend. Jay-Elle is a shambles.

@dantobias9164

7 ай бұрын

Unforgiven much ...?

If everything had gone to plan, (Like sadly losing Carrie Fisher in the middle of the Trilogy) The Sequel Trilogy should have focused on Leia becoming Chancellor, and Luke re-building the Jedi Order in his vision of the force. (For example Loving others is allowed since that's what saved his Father at the end, however, it could be the point where Luke feels guilt for this, as Kylo and his father's relationship falls apart) Luke is already Grandmaster over the three movies. Finn is NOT just a side character and is taken seriously as he realizes his Jedi powers. Rey is powerful but in more of a tough Princess Leia type of way. BOTH are students of Luke. Kylo Ren was a student of Luke's but turned to the Dark Side. Snoke is responsible, as he poisoned Kylo's mind with doubt. How does he know Kylo? Well, Snoke and Han have a past from his smuggling days. Han wasn't aware that Snoke had Force powers and was manipulating him until it was too late. Kylo still kills his father Han Solo and should make a big reveal to Rey in the second act after injuring her. "Rey, I killed your parents, they were nobodies". New bad guys that you don't kill off in the second act would be another plus. Cough Snoke Cough. The Knights Of Ren were a Vader-worshiping cult, which was originally the plan i think. No Woke female characters, and Luke & Kylo having a real Lightsaber fight, if Kylo kills Luke, so be it. Leia should then face her own son and get beat down until she hears Luke's voice from the Force and battles back. Kylo then gets the upper hand again and has her dead to right but won't finish the job. Snoke is pissed, tosses Kylo away and attempts to kill Leia himself. Kylo hears his mother's cries for help and the Light side prevails inside of him. Yes that's Return Of The Jedi, but i feel you need it to rhyme with that movie, in some major way. That was a major rough cut of what i wrote out back in 2019.

@deadpool-xr6dr

7 ай бұрын

This story is good; and they pay a grand Mount of money to writes ot sequels...

That whole thing about having to read side novels, comics and whatnot to understand the movies was Disney's galaxy brain idea of how to milk more money from fans. It failed horribly because we all know that movies don't work that way.

@brothersinentertainment

11 ай бұрын

The Expanded Universe worked because it was an addition. You can watch Star Wars I-VI and be 100% caught up on all you need to know. The major players are accounted for, motivations explained, and a cause and effect relationship for everything. When you read the books, you get more adventures with these characters, maybe some insight into their thoughts, and extra conflict. Key words being "more" and "extra" The Thrawn Trilogy wasnt needed to understand why Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie and Lando acted the way they did. Rogue Squadron isnt required to understand Wedge Antillies and his crew motivation. Darth Plageuis doesnt need to be read to make sense of Revenge of the Sith. You read them because you love the movies and want to know MORE and ADDITIONAL informantion. When friends say "this book and comic make Last Jedi make sense" i say "thats the job of the movie the books are to give us more not a baseline" The passion and soul arw gone

@LibraGamesUnlimited

11 ай бұрын

@@brothersinentertainment Exactly. Disney wanted to make their stuff required reading in the name of cohesion (and also, it seems to use it to retcon errors in their movies) and people don't work that way. Not everyone is going to want to read a bunch of novels, comcs, etc... just to understand a movie, it also didn't help that the movies were way below par. Having to read a comic to find out why CP30's arm is red is just dumb.

@LibraGamesUnlimited

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, I think Disney has had this idea for a very long time. The idea that you have to read and watch everything to get the whole experience do they can make money off of fans. What they never understood was that it doesn't work that way. Sure, pre Disney Star Wars had technical books and all that but that stuff was to add to the experience, not complete it.

The characters in the sequels act as if they have seen all the saga movies (including the one they are in). Why would Rey care if she is a 'nobody' and not from a lineage? I think most of all, TLJ itself is obsessed with the idea that the audience care about lineage, as thought lineage for its own sake is someone gratifying to these plebs it wants to lecture. Nearly every character in the movies Lucas made isn't a Skywalker, and none of them seem to care. If the trilogy hadn't tried to bait the audience into wondering if Rey came out of a Skywalker mystery box, and had just introduced her as having scavenger parents, nobody would have cared.

Mark hamill was severely disappointed on how they castrated Luke Skywalker, they also almost booted him a few times just for trying to let them know that Luke wouldn't do such a thing. If I was the director I would toss my ego aside and listened to what he had to say and work with him. Luke Skywalker resurrected the Jedi order and abolished many of the shitty rules.

@BWMagus

Жыл бұрын

I wish they HAD booted him. Not to insult him, I hope he got a paycheck at least for seeing his most beloved character destroyed, but maybe the movie would have hurt less if Luke hadn't actually been in the film, just a grave somewhere with some Jedi shit written on it that "speaks" to Rey or something.

An absolutely phenomenal rebuke of relativism. Well done.

This article reminds me of essays I used to write in the 7th grade when I'd forgotten I had a book report due and madly threw words at the page during lunch.

@spoiler321

Жыл бұрын

philistine definition

Great vid with a touching summary.

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Equal and separate character arcs ? Seriously they cant have seen that movie.

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

I did start to wonder, especially when she said (in part one) that Luke died on Tatooine…

@shanenolan8252

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon yes . The animals freed was worth ( rose ) anti capitalist thing was ridiculous, especially as they fail to free the child slaves who live with the animals. And all those animals will be easily recovered its just an inconvenience

@shanenolan8252

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon oh yes the non fictitious world lol . Or what happened to profe reading or editors ? ( noyt paid enough or too much )

The whole "Jedi and main characters don't need to be Skywalkers. It's more interesting when they're not" line of thought to be very odd. It's a big universe and there's room for a vast number of stories. The saga is specifically about this family. To not have the last third be about this family would be very odd. And characters don't have to be in this family to be important or powerful, but this story is about this family at a time when the jedi are nearly extinct. I just... don't understand what people are thinking.

Can I just say, I have never been more comfortable with the term of buggery than on this stream, my eyes are watering (no not in that way). Great video, thank you Sir!

Poe also learns the wrong lesson. The charitable view of what the lesson of opening attack was that he shouldn’t be so quick to spend lives when the situation doesn’t really matter. Remember he doesn’t know that the Empire can track them at this point. The big problem is however at the end of the movie during the Sand Hoth as far as he is aware he needs to delay the Empire long enough for reinforcements to arrive. Again remember he doesn’t know they aren’t coming. He in this situation, in order to save the rebellion, has a duty to destroy that weapon at all costs up to and including the destruction of his entire command. By calling off that attack Poe, as far as he knew, just doomed the rebellion to death

As a reasonably intelligent person I sat and watched all 3 Disney Star Wars and felt nothing. The original trilogy ment so much to me growing up in the 70s/80s. I will most likely never pay any attention to this franchise again, and leave it as golden memory from my fantastic childhood.

On the subject of Luke Skywalker and and fictional characters 30:40-32:50 is something I've long believed but haven't heard anyone articulate in such a meaningful way.

*22:00**-**22:37** Now this is sheer brilliance. 👏🧠*

That article actually reminded me of the papers I would write as a freshman undergraduate only concerned with my GPA

Thanks for the videos. Every once in a while remember how much I loved star wars growing up.... lego games... my own legos... games..books... the clone wars show....and now we have this.

Perhaps one of the points of trivializing Rey's lineage was to keep with the idea that anyone could potentially be a powerful Force user (e.g. "Broom Boy", seen at the end of the movie). This will appeal to the masses and therefore sell more plastic lightsabers and tickets to Disney World. 💰💰💰

@FluffyBunniesOnFire

Жыл бұрын

I didn't even have a problem with that (clunky execution aside). She thought she'd find meaning through learning her parentage, and by finding nothing she has to learn to let go and find her own purpose. No fan-service lineage, just finding clarity in emptiness, and putting trust in the force.

@deadpool-xr6dr

7 ай бұрын

"All are especial, nobody is special .

Wow. The entire argument is fantastic. However that Obiwan clip at the end was a stroke of genius.

The article seems to be taking the interesting tact of simply describing what happened in the movie, and then explaining how that makes it good. As opposed to describing what a good movie would be and then explaining how the story matches that narrative.

You know, perhaps it might help to remember that there were many ancient Homeric epics apart from the two "canonical" ones we know today (the Iliad and Odyssey). There were likely entire epics devoted to obscure side characters and pointless sequels following the exploits of heros after the Trojan War. But most of these probably sucked. We'll never know for sure - (maybe some of them were okay) - because they've been lost to time, since only the truly great ones were copied in sufficient quantities by scribes over the millennia so that they remain known to this day. I like to think that this will be the fate of the Sequel Trilogy and the rest of this Disney shit that passes for "canonical" Star Wars these days. People say they "ruined Luke" and all that, but that's only true if we grant the Sequel Trilogy any real significance beyond a 4 year cash grab that occurred in the early 21st century. How many shitty Greek bards ruined Achilles with bullshit stories that we'll simply never know about? The stories that really resonate are the ones that last, the ones that really matter. The Original Trilogy (and to a lesser extent the Prequels) are Star Wars - no amount of tacked on creatively bankrupt bullshit can change that.

@sethkeown5965

Жыл бұрын

here here

Love the video essay! Honestly one of the worst parts is how the first two movies take place over the space of 3-4 days. It’s so annoying how everything Rey does is unearned and they crap all over the OT characters.

the code breaker should never of been able to betray finn and rose because how does he even know the plan ? he wouldnt know because i refuse to believe holdo pulled rose and finn aside before they left the ship to tell them it . she cause peo to mutiny before she told him it . it makes no sense at all

I really like the way how you review it's interesting how you delve into the matter and all the backkground . It's sometimes a bit difficult for me to understand since my english isn't that good but i think watching your videos will make me a little better. I was dissapointet of the new Star Wars for lots of reasons i'm not going into it but there was one thing that really killed it for me and that was the character development of Luke Skywalker. In fact i switched off the second part of this Star Wars and refused to watch the third part after that. I watched the Star Wars movies when i was a kid 5-10 since my brothers loved it we watched it multiple times. For me Star Wars was something like a scifi medieval Story and i loved knights and stuff as child. I saw Luke as a young at the start somehow really naive person who just never gave up no matter what so the paragon of knightliness" ..i mean he chased after his Father a guy he didn't know and who was one of the most badass villain i've knowen at this point in the hope to convert him back. The way they changed him in the new Star Wars was in my point of view..just impossible,silly and degrading...This guy would never ever no matter what try to kill his nephews just because he is scared to lose him to the dark side he would never ever give up to drag him back to the right way especially since he basicly raised him. I just couldn't take that 🤣

Respects friend to anyone who speak the truth in explaining why this abortion TLJ is not just a franchise Destroyer but also the ultimate example of a way to insult that any All other could ever suffer STAR WARS EP3 Revenge of the Sith will always stand as the last true SW movie that ever happened and ever will it seems despite the fact that i have respect and care for both ROGUE1 and MANDO

Disney seemed to think Rian's botched interpretation of ‘Balance in the Force’ would result in a through line for endless sequels that themselves would be copies and permutations of the stories in the Original Trilogy.

To be fair, if Shakespeare tried to choke me to death with his own manuscripts, I might not recognize the good writing in them.

Very good, many thanks. Might I bring up a subject related to the 'arguments' raised by this author? Namely the concepts of 'good' and 'evil'. It would seem to be increasingly fashionable for 'bad' people incapable of personal honesty or real cognition to attempt to justify what they recognise as their own failings by suggesting 'good' and 'evil' are in some way fluid. "I'm not a bad person because 'good' and 'evil' don't really exist, it's all shades of grey." No, no, no, and again I say no! Whether they have their own existence or are constructions of society 'good' and 'evil' do exist, as opposites. It makes not one whit of difference to 'black' and 'white' how I interact with them, it is my choice and my responsibility how I do. To suggest 'shades of grey' somehow external to me by way of excuse or justification is to deny choice, deny responsibility, and I would suggest is diagnostic of evil. I might choose 'the light', I might choose 'the dark', much more likely I might 'live in the grey' either because I don't recognise a choice or don't care to make it - self delusion! But if I attempt to redefine 'black' and 'white' for everyone as a personal excuse that makes me a monster.

The authors inability to write a coherent article should immediately invalidate their ability to coherently view a piece of media

That hyperspace jump is the worst. I can't help but wonder why the OT Rebellion didn't just build huge swarms of suicide ships, remotely-controlled by crews in safe locations, that would have absolutely devastated the Imperial Navy.

I never made the connection to Jurassic Park before because the characters are so different. It's a shame because the actress is now tarnished in my eyes because the character is so terrible.

I still remember walking out of the theater after having seen TLJ. I was with my best friend at the time and we both had polar opposite experiences. He genuinely liked the movie, and I did not. The flm was so strange to me that I wasn't even angry, just confused as to why LucasFilm tried to burn down everything good from Episodes 1-6, as well as the few plot threads set up in 7. Now, looking back, the Disney SW movies are objectively bad, with its only fans being people with political agendas. It really is a disgrace to the Skywalker legacy and for my part, I've not given Disney a rotten penny since TLJ and disregard DSW as non-canon.

I so agree with what you say on Dooku, and I hope someday, we can explore his character further. Just a pity that Christopher Lee is not around anymore to voice him.

@the-point-bearer6689

Жыл бұрын

If Evan McGregor succeeds as Obi-Wan Kenobi after Alec Guinness, then maybe we may as well find the Christopher Lee successor here and there.

I didnt give a shit about the subject of this video but damn is your voice relaxing, its like listening to steven fry just being posh all the time

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

Ha! I guess… thanks? I sound much better after a bottle of Johnnie Walker.

The whole sequel saga should have been about Finn and his defection as a storm trooper who is force capable. Thus needing to find Luke the last Jedi to teach him

Just as with the Matrix Ressurrections a movie to rant about but not to rewatch.

Its actually worse than Haldo refusing to tell ANYONE anything about her plan. The movie shows that she did tell people about the plan. The plan was in process. She just refused to tell MOST of the people about her plan. Including Poe. Poe. The guy that the Rebels....er....Resistance chose to send , solo, to retrieve the all so important map to Luke Skywalker. Poe. The guy that then was chosen to lead the incredibly important attack against Starkiller base. Poe. The guy that was then selected to make a solo run( is this becoming redundant/ obvious?) against not just the Dreadnaught, but the entire Imperia....uhm....First Order fleet. And. He succeeded. On each and every one of these vitally important, and( usually) amazingly difficult missions. While any sane person would have been kissing Poe's boots( for nearly single handedly keeping the Resistance alive) and asking his advice on any important decision, Admiral Haldo treated him something she had stepped in . It was a symptom of some of the " greater messages" of this movie. 1=The past was wrong. The old ways were wrong. The new ways are the best and always correct( despite any and all evidence that may be to the contrary) 2=The guys are weak, bullheaded, stubborn, useless, self important, idiots who need the women folk to bring them around to the right way. Poe was belittled , bullied, and mistreated by the women in command. Finn was embarrassed, outclassed, and taught lessons by Rose. Luke was defeated, deflated, and brought back to the light by Ray. Chewy was ordered about like a servant by Rey( No longer did he seem to have opinions of his own, as he always did with Han, arguing when he disagreed with a course of action. No. No. No. Now he was just a yes man and chauffeur to Rey) 3=The new movies show the "RIGHT WAY" of things. The old movies were the " WRONG WAY" . A big problem with these messages are that, beyond being simplistic and, often wrong, the movie itself often shows them to be wrong, while seeming to claim them to be right. "The old ways were wrong". Such as " Jumping in a starfighter and blowing things up isn't always the answer". But, then, the movie shows that that is usually the answer. Were they able to , that would have solved almost every significant problem in the movie and, ultimately, using a ship to blow things up does solve most of the significant problems in the movie., "the guys are........" But, quite often, when one steps back and looks, the guys were right. At least given the information that they had. Poe was actually right about carrying on the attack on the Dreadnaught. He was right that Haldo should have shared her plan . Finn was right about leaving the convoy. Finn was right about sacrificing himself to save the others. Sure. Luke was wrong about everything, but, by and large, when one steps back and looks at the bigger picture, the guys were right as often as the ladies. The new movies show the "RIGHT WAY". This is ore subjective, but, I put it that this is also, for the most part, wrong. The old movies were able to tell a story that was enjoyable , while also teaching valuable lessons of patience, community, dedication to a cause larger than oneself. The new movies fail at telling an enjoyable story AND fail at teaching useful lessons. That's my opinion anyway. Agree or disagree?

@deadpool-xr6dr

7 ай бұрын

Dissonance narrative.

Congrats on 1000 subs. Let’s see them fly up from here!

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

Here’s hoping!

@lastdimestudios

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon for you there is no hoping! It just is.

@thomasvanhezel

Жыл бұрын

That aged very, very well! Congrats, Platoon, you deserve it

Things would have been much simpler if JJ had simply brought back Snoke considering he was a clone!

Looks like Rian Johnson did a Holdo Maneuver onto the entire franchise. That was definitely a one in a million fuck up.

That article was written in the style someone who just discovered Derrida and now has to "deconstruct" everything....how tiresome

I remember leaving the movie theater genuinely angry about having paid money for this movie. I was on board with TFA and even 'liked' the visual aspect of Rise of Skywalker. The Last Jedi though... Rey doesn't stand on her own two feet as a lead (Can't stand her expressions, delivery, and the writing behind her); the writers fundamentally misunderstanding the Star Wars universe and completely wasting potential with characters that could have been much more. It's quite an insult to lay groundwork for characters that CAN be compelling, then turning them into tropes and resetting their progress. Poe Dameron and Rose never really struck me as characters that needed to be in these movies. Though Finn could have been such an amazing addition to the Star Wars mythos. Especially if the arc of a Stormtrooper finding his power in the force was followed through. I envision a trilogy where Rey and Finn break down their own barriers together, learning and building their skills and personalities as Jedi. Maybe with one of them faltering along the way, only to be brought back to the light by their closest friend and ally (I think a romance between the two would be a bad idea.) I also see Kylo Ren being a compelling villain without the pointless ties to the original trilogy. I think family ties linking so many characters was a mistake in the writing and only served as a ridiculous coincidence and contrivance farm. Ben Solo? Nope. Just Kylo Ren. Rey Palpatine? Nope. Just Rey. I'd have loved to see a gruff, matured Luke train Rey and Finn at his renowned academy, which could serve as a perfect set-up to "pass the torch" later when one of them inevitably struggles to stay committed to the Light Side of the force. Kylo Ren very well could have been a fallen student from Luke's academy, though I think Kylo Ren being the best of the Knights of Snoke, trained and honed to be a symbol of the Dark Side from a young age, would be fitting. It could have shown the depths of depravity the Dark Side can go to in the name of power. To demonstrate how sadistic and evil the Sith overlords truly are. I think back to Darth Malak torturing Bastila in order to 'break her' and turn her to the Dark Side. Seeing Ben Solo's journey as he tried to resist, maybe even successfully until he becomes the weapon Snoke desired. This could sew the seeds of a redemption arc, or even to push Kylo Ren into betraying Snoke and taking the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. I know there's no definitive way to do 'better' than the original writers. I just mean to demonstrate millions of creative directions could have turned amazing potential into a truly remarkable film series. It's a shame we got an insulting mess instead of a piece of art. If you read my crazy Star Wars fan ramblings then cheers to you. I love Star Wars media, from the original movies to the stories of heroes and villains like Revan, Bane, and Delta Squad. I just wish the execs and creative minds behind these projects had a bit of integrity

I can't remember who said it, but I think it was Mauler*, that this sort of analysis, the tearing down of the terrible, doesn't detract from the good; because the good gets better through analysis. Whoever said it, whoever's eloquence I've clunkily paraphrased here, they were right. *Even if it wasn't his work made me think of it. Go watch it, it's awesome. Hope the plug is ok in these comments...? Mr. Platoon, thank you. Thank you for giving me another reminder of why Luke Skywalker matters to us all. Why those stories matter. And why I love them. I love them all the more for your analysis and will enjoy them even more the next time I watch them for your hard work (and others) in helping me understand why. I've been devouring this channel for a few days now and I'm loving it!

30:49 "Everyone above a certain age remembers where and when they first encountered him. People younger than that... literally do not remember a time when he wasn't one of our heroes." Eh... I might actually be one the few people in the tiny spot in between. I do remember _where_ I first encountered him. Or maybe I should say I _know_ where it was. It was at the single screen theater in the small town I used to live. And I also know what year Return of the Jedi opened, so I know that I was either 4 or 5 when my parents brought me along to see it with them. But I had no idea what Star Wars was. I had no idea why this guy dressed like a priest without a collar was having a conversation with an old man ghost in a swamp. Of course, act 3 was not the ideal place to jump on, but it wasn't really about that. I wasn't quite to the point where I could sit still and pay attention to anything longer and more involved than a cartoon. But even as I grew old enough to watch and pay attention to the movies, I have no idea which of the 3 I watched first. I think I probably knew how they went before I saw them, just from osmosis with other kids.

the speeder scene with Finn and Rose is so idiotic I'm shocked so many people didn't mind it. Finn goes in straight line to the target. All the walkers decide not to shoot him. Rose is far back since we see her turn back to the base, she goes from the side, taking a much longer route than Finn while starting from far behind. She also isn't shot down by 20+ walkers that stopped firing. She crashes into Finn, full speed, in a clanky, shieldless speeder, no airbags. Both survive the crash, which she somehow knew would happen. They are right next to enemy walkers, talking while shit explodes. They aren't shot down or captured. Then Finn manages to catch up with the Resistance by walking all the way back to the base while carrying Rose on some debris. It's been a long while in my decades of movie watching to see something as logically broken as that scene. Then we add everything you said here about Finn and Rose stories. Rose's sister died for Resistance, and Rose spat on her sacrifice by denying Finn similar sacrifice, while many ground defenders of the base explode in the fire.

Nice, a great listen and good points....cheers.

For me the biggest problem of TLJ wasn't the assassination of Luke Skywalker (though I will touch on that) it was that the movie was the worst sin a film can be...it was boring. I actually watched the movie at my sister's house, would get up and leave for several minutes at a time, come back and nothing happened. The space chase was still going on, the casino scene was still going on, the arguments about how to escape the new order was still going on...nothing in that movie happened. It was all pointless and a boring slog. As for Luke, I have argued many times that what Johnson did was unforgivable. I've seen the arguments that it was good to give Luke flaws, not like he didn't have any to begin with, but the idea that he was a broken and flawed individual was a great character development. I have always answered back by saying if you wanted to give him a flaw, make him be a poor teacher or an inattentive uncle, but trying to straight murder your sleeping nephew makes you a sociopath. It was such a stupid decision to do that, that it broke the entire narrative. But no, Johnson was hellbent on tearing down the amazing character of Luke Skywalker. And what was the payoff of that decision? Making him so unlikable and resentful that he was only recognizable by name, nothing about that character resonated the youthful, bright-eyed farm boy turned hero that was unwilling to give up on his father, but one inkling of darkness in his nephew and "nope" lets shiv him with a lightsaber. What a great way to treat a legacy character that is the defining attributes of heroism in the minds of so many fans. It's an absolute travesty.

Hang on. Why did Kylo pull the roof down on top of Luke… _and himself?_ He was right under Luke when he did this, did he think everything was just going to work out, having a 210 lb man on top of him… and then a ton of rubble on top of *_that?_* Why didn’t he Force Push Luke away, _then_ use Force Pull to bring the roof down on top of Luke’s head?

I grew up with the original trilogy and was absolutely devastated when I went to watch the special edition release. The Han solo/ greedo scene and the jabba scene were heartbreaking and fundamentally ruined the characters. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It made no sense whatsoever to make changes that were disastrous in terms of story telling. I merely expected updated sfx. Rather than building the reputation and mystery of jabba the hutt to reveal in rotj they show him straight after the scene with Han abd a bounty hunter he sent. He's a fat lazy creature but for some reason he is wriggling around in the sand saying Han my boy. Dreadful.

My beef with the Disney era is on a much simpler level. 1) Disney didn’t think to write a three movie story. This is absolutely insane when trying to resurrect a franchise. 2) We didn’t get a single scene with Han, Luke and Leia. This is absolutely insane. 3) They tried to create new characters but didn’t develop them. I gave zero fucks about Poor Damnrun, Fan, or Ray. They are chumps as far as I’m concerned. Great job douchebags. 4) Did a single writer actually love Star Wars? No. Did we need a Blade Runner sequel? No. But it was made with love and class. Thanks Denis. Please don’t make a Star Wars film. 5) I’ve loved the Wars since I was an eight year old kid in 1977. It changed my life. I’ve watched every Star Wars thing since. I honestly don’t care anymore, and that’s sad. I loathed Kenobi, Booba Fett, Mando Season 3…all bullshit. Andor is barely keeping me in, but I’m sure they’re gonna mess that up as well. I can write better Wars than these hacks. You probably can too. And that sucks.

As I listen to this article I can't help but feel they wrote it from the perspective of a Will Ferrell character. Like Ron Burgandy. 😂😂😂

TLJ ruined wanting to watch any more Disney Star Wars projects and was incredibly disappointing to know how much a great universe for stories was destroyed

I think this was one of your best. Many thanks.

I tend to think there is always something good that can be taken if one would look hard enough for it...a "silver lining". In the case of TLJ we are left a proverb of how not to do something. Something we can study and hopefully not fall in that very same pitfall. It is sad that in so doing the cost was so very high and pyric, as if the arm were cut off an now replaced with a metal skeletal arm in it's place. Knowing full well that each time it happens we become more and more machine. I am to the point where I don't watch Star Wars anymore. Sometimes, I find myself reading about it just enough to realize why I have moved on. I didn't watch the book of BF or the new Kenobi, and I don't regret it.

@mariecarie1

9 ай бұрын

You honestly didn’t miss anything by not watching the TV shows.

They just don't realize that the OT was lightning in a bottle.

Imagine, if near the end of the Two Towers, Expectations are subverted and Sauron and the Ring are destroyed, Gandalf projects an apparition of himself to Helm’s Deep, which allows 20 Humans to escape through the Mountains, then Gandalf fades away and dies. Then you pass off Return of the King for someone to write and direct. What the hell would you do with it, if some selfish prick made the middle movie in the trilogy with zero regards for what would come next? That’s what essentially Rian Johnson did.

Great video, really glad I just found your channel. Earned a new sub, keep it up!

Platoon: Strap in or strap on Me: You naughty, naughty , you teasing me! :)

"With the franchise working as an observation of the non-fictitious world that influences it, Episodes Six and Nine failed to be seen as provocative." This article is a perfect example of a person using overly-complex but ultimately stupid rhetoric to try and compensate for their weak arguments. There's no conviction. She had an idea (or her editor had an idea) for a "controversial" article and then she just hammered out as many words as she could. It's kind of depressing that a lot of people would look at this and think it's good writing.

If Rian Johnson farted, these people would try to jar it, then stand around staring at the noxious gas in awe of how clever, provocative and subversive it was.

The true mark of good moral ambiguity in fiction is being able to weigh someone doing the right thing for a bad reason against someone doing the wrong thing for a good reason and still being able to recognize that the former is still the good guy.

The issue with adapting the Thrawn trilogy was that all the main characters were too old. Heir to the Empire takes place five years after the Battle of Endor.

I remembered to click Like when the letters for buggery and pen15 were referred to.

There are those, especially those after 1985, who would consider your use of the English language to be nonsensical and Stupid(their favorite word). I however, do not. I find you a joy to listen to and your quick witted distillery of ignorance into substance, refreshing. I lose my faith in people the more I hear people speak, it is nice to know there are still those who can restore lost faith. Language is an art, it is what makes us special on this planet, to allow language to become artless; is too ourselves become thoughtless.

@TheLittlePlatoon

Жыл бұрын

That’s lovely to hear! I quite agree with the link between language and thought, though it’s up for debate whether limited vocabulary constrains thought (the premise of Newspeak and the Strauss-Wharf hypothesis) or whether limited vocabulary is a symptom of thoughtlessness. But quite apart from all that, there’s so much fun to be had in wordplay. Whole genres of ironic humour depend on it. I don’t have very many skills, but I consider myself fortunate to have that one.

@MrDarchangelomni

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon I am going to assume that you have a love for knowledge, a love you were born with. Whether you sought education on your own or by collegiate training, that you have always sough education... It is how you make me "feel" when I read your written word or hear you speak. Some people have a dislike for speech they consider rehearsed, I only dislike ignorance wherever it is, in whatever form. It is rare that ignorance is truly blissful, for anyone. I can only think of situations where one might not want to know the means of one's death. I personally believe in plasticity, that all minds are capable with good example and repetition to be good at a thing. It is mathematically inevitable that even a blind squirrel gets a nut. Barring some disorder/deformity, I believe all people capable of greater understanding and by extension language skills. Whether the quantity of ones understanding of language directly relates to one having greater mathematical/spatial reasoning (IQ)? I would say not, it may give advantages to be sure, but I would not think it wholly dependent. I believe there are more ways of measuring intelligence than we are ourselves intelligent. That our knowledge of what we do not know, is so immature in scope, that we are incapable to date, to truly have an inkling of what we do not know. I tell my kids, "I don't care what you are good at, or how much you know. Just know well, the things you do." My 3rd boy was beating himself up, over performing poorly in single expression equations, after some preliminary discovery I found the school was not requiring him to show his methods. I had him step it out on paper and found it, he was bad at division. I asked why he would attempt this class if he had not mastered division, he wanted to be "smart in the smart class". Some parents may think what I did next wrong, but I talked to the school and had him placed in "general mathematics". He was upset, but after a talk I let him know that I would be much prouder and consider him smarter. I told him I believe it is better to master something simple, than to be simple in a mastery class. This is the Carne Con Papas of my feelings on intelligence. This is why I love your version of speech, I rely on clumsy metaphors and long anecdotal stories... I want to be better at concisely distilling my thoughts to instantly understandable one liners. So just know, now you are teaching.

@MrDarchangelomni

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon ALSO: an opinion in answer to a question you left open "whether limited vocabulary is a symptom of thoughtlessness". I am not expert enough to give you a default correct answer, however, In what language would we inner monologue without language... I personally feel the abstraction of our thoughts would diminish, and that our inner thought would become more iconic making communication without seeing the one communicating would become impossible. We would have to rely on visual/auditory cues. Animals do this but they get so much more out of it than we would be capable of, not emitting or being capable of smelling the requisite hormones. Our sight and hearing being limited to a much smaller range. I believe animals are far more intelligent than we generally credit them with, I just do not believe they are capable of storing that intelligence in a physical form. They always reinvent the wheel as soon as the old wheel is no longer of use.

The Holdo maneuver is akin to a chess pawn being able to move anywhere on the board as long as it is the only piece left. But also only a rule in the chance that you are playing against a blue haired female and don't know the rule exists.

Rouge one was forgettable...sorry had to get that off my chest.

@TheLittlePlatoon

2 жыл бұрын

It’s funny. I actually really liked that film. Far from perfect, obviously, but I thought it did a reasonable job of filling in a gap, and did strike the balance of nostalgia and the new pretty much right. It knew its job wasn’t to be some defining, grand narrative; its whole purpose was to add to what had gone before, and enable what had come after. Which isn’t to say it was brilliant, but I’d much sooner watch that than anything else to have come out of Star Wars in the last 10-20 years.

@Thad-the-forth

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLittlePlatoon I can respect that, I might be suffering from star wars fatigue. Any opinion on the prequels?

@mr_indie_fan

2 жыл бұрын

I liked it, and sort of liked solo. Love the og trilogy and the prequels, and rebels, clone wars, visions, the first season of the bad batch and the first two seasons of the mandalorian *i hate the sequels and the high republic and the book of boba fett and whatever other woke garbage they will put out*

@Gornonatory

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr_indie_fan The Book of Boba Fett was horrible to watch. Disgusting color grading (Tatooine used to be bright, what the hell happened), questionable CGI and everything about the characters is just straight goofy, don't even get me started on the punks. I still have a hard time believing this series had a budget.

@cyborgmonday4817

Жыл бұрын

The only things in Book of Boba Fett I liked were the Tuskens and the Wookiee bounty hunter. I hate what they did to Boba Fett and that Grogu went back to Mando so quickly.

The shear elegance in which you shit on these movies is to be admired and revered