I live in Belgium and we used to have trams all over the country, even in remote places (SNCV). They all were abandoned in the 1950s and 1960s due to "cars being the future" (well that's a bit simplified but you get what I mean). Nowadays we only have trams in 5 cities, and no more trolleybuses. Most new tram projects are not realised and instead replaced by bus or "tram bus" (a fancy word for a bi-articulated bus) lines, even though it has been shown multiple times that a tram line is more efficient than a bus line and attracts more passengers due to the higher comfort (under the circumstances in Belgium).

@timdekleijn8910

2 жыл бұрын

Same to the north of ya', although the town of Arnhem atleast chose to go for trolley busses instead of diesels.

@juliansadler6263

2 жыл бұрын

Lijn 2 to Mariakerke in Gent is going back to tram service eventually. The junction has already been done. So over 50 years tram>trolleybus>bus>tram

@nixcails

2 жыл бұрын

You do have the world longest tram route the "Kusttram' though.

@juliansadler6263

2 жыл бұрын

@@nixcails And whoever designed the Ashton route in Manchester had surely been to Belgium.

@stickynorth

2 жыл бұрын

I agree! Edmonton, Alberta had a huge streetcar network that was converted to trolley buses. It never saw nearly the same traffic it had when it was converted in 1951... It limped along until 2015 when the city went all in on electric and hybrid buses... I personally still think they should just revive the old streetcar lines, especially when they keep uncovering rails during repaving projects... It's a sign from above if you ask me! ;-)

The end of the old trams seemed to be a contentious issue in whichever city. In my home town the suspension poles lasted over twenty years after the last tram before being removed. Still, one of the old tram depôts is to become the city's transport museum. Thanks for a good 'un!

@CoolAsFreya

2 жыл бұрын

I'm lucky enough to live in Melbourne, one of the few major cities to not tare out our vast tram network! Not to say it wasn't a close call, trams had been replaced with busses during the era everyone else was removing tram networks, but we had the foresight (if not lazyness) to not remove the tracks, and eventually trams resumed and exploded into today's iconic Melbourne tram network. Living next to a tram line I've never felt the need to buy a car (I'm actually watching this video on the tram)

@420greatestqueen

2 жыл бұрын

@@CoolAsFreya I’m lucky to live in Vancouver. They tore out the trams and built trolley busses instead in my neighbourhood using the old tram routes. Although I’m happy we still have trolley busses, they are very slow and undependable when it snows. I wish Vancouver had kept it them as trams. They would have been faster, perhaps more reliable too

@juliansadler6263

2 жыл бұрын

The trolleybus overhead in Brighton was used to support street lighting for some 20 years after they were withdrawn.

@miscbits6399

11 ай бұрын

My home town had tram rails on one bridge unti lthe bridge was replaced in 1998 - the trams ceased operating in 1939

The double-decker trams may be gone from London but thankfully the British introduced them to Hong Kong in 1904 where they are still thriving today. An average of 200K people ride them every day! While the original fleet have been retired, if you're a tourist you can book a sightseeing tour of a replica of a 1920s design called the TramOramic Tour! Or better yet, book a private party tram in a replica of the original design!

@henrytudor8537

2 жыл бұрын

Blackpool still has them

@tw25rw

2 жыл бұрын

I rode the trams in HK a few years ago. It was both fun and very uncomfortable at the same time.

@sglenny001

2 жыл бұрын

There's some In Blackpool

@NotLeafster34

2 жыл бұрын

i was about to comment somthing similar like yours. I've lived in Hong Kong since birth. These trams only exists in the Hong Kong Island Area. Fun fact. They had reserved an old tram (number 120). Still uses it till this day! In the New Territories,in the cities like Siu Hong,Tuen Mun,Tin Shui Wai and Yuen Long has a single decker tram which is actually LRV's

@keithkilvert

Жыл бұрын

Like thaTonebanana, I was also born in HK and living in Happy Valley on HK island, as a young kid, (about 8 years old) the trams were my main mode of transit when on my own. Took my fiance on them when we were visiting in 2013.... She was amazed with how good they were for sightseeing...

Lovely video - most enjoyable. I can just remember riding on a tram in Streatham as a small child. I can also remember a tram joke which my mother told me (probably from Arthur Askey, Tommy Trinder or such-like) - Old lady: "if I put my foot on the rail, will I get a shock?" Tram conductor: "Not unless you put your other foot on the overhead wire - and then we'd all get a shock".

I’m no transport expert but bringing back trolley buses seems like a really good long term eco friendly transport method in comparison to using buses that have batteries or Diesel engines.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

Tried at Doncaster (racecourse) but for some reason never progressed

@sporkafife

2 жыл бұрын

You can even combine the both cables and electric buses and have trolleybuses powered by overhead cables that also have a relatively small onboard energy storage capacity (be it battery, supercapacitor or even mechanical flywheel, all have pros and cons). This means that they don't even need to be connected to the grid 100% of the time, solving a lot of the problems they had back in the day by allowing them to avoid obstacles, take diversions, and even run more diverse routes that don't necessarily need to be fully cabled, reducing the cost of the initial infrastructure investment. I must be missing some huge drawback because it seems like a no-brainer, win-win-win way to reduce greenhouse emissions and increase local air quality at less cost than railed alternatives. Feel free to point out the massive disadvantage that I must be missing 😂

@patrickpowers5995

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. Edinburgh seriously missed a trick there.

@ktipuss

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the patronage of the routes. Moderate or lower patronage is OK to service with electric buses, but for heavily patronised routes, trams are better as they can carry a lot more passengers in one vehicle.

@trueriver1950

2 жыл бұрын

@@sporkafife it's harder than you think. A tram with a pantograph that can be raised and lowered can bridge a gap with an on board battery, because the pan can contact the wire without worrying about sideways movement. That's because the wire only carries one pole of the current. Trolley buses make this a lot harder: the trolley connects both poles of the electric circuit (due to rubber tires and road surfaces not being conductive) and that's why the trolley is there in the first place. Secondly, due to not being on tracks the sideways movement is much more significant. The trolley bus driver could push a button to drop the trolley pole, but would still have to get out to relocate the trolley and pole at the other side of the gap. I'm old enough, just, to remember trolley buses in London, I might have been five or six when the 607 trolleybus was withdrawn. It ran along a former tram route. The current 607 bus follows the same route today (though the number was out of use for decades before they brought it back) Conversion from tram to trolley bus made sense as they could re-use the poles and the electrical substations, though the actual overhead writing had to be changed as explained. When the pole dropped for any reason the staff would have to get our and manually re-locate it. In the middle of a junction this caused traffic chaos and risk to the member of staff from idiot drivers not giving them space. That danger would be much larger now. Pole drops most often happened at junctions of trolley bus routes, where the trolley decided to go a different way to its bus. Naturally trolley bus routes would diverge at the busiest road junctions. Not nice! But fun for a five year old to watch :)

My hometown here in Canada scrapped its trams in the 1940s, but put in a new service in the last five years. Rebuilding of part of the roadbed for the new tracks saw them pull up some wooden sleepers from the old system!

@chrisinnes2128

2 жыл бұрын

In Edinburgh nere my hometown they found the old cable tram line when digging up the road to install the new tramline

@neilbain8736

2 жыл бұрын

I watched them lay the new tramway from Victoria Station to St. Peter's Square in Manchester a few years ago. There were piles of tram rails at the side of the road. They weren't new. They had rediscovered the old rails from the 1940's which were still in place on the old road surface, currently 2 or more feet below the present road surface, and you had a beautiful archaeological strata of cobbles, rails, rubble, and new surface and new rails.

@johnturner4400

2 жыл бұрын

Same here in Nottingham. Dug through the asphalt to find the cobblestone and old tram lines…

@chenyeanmingtakumi9033

2 жыл бұрын

Which city in Canada are you from?

@neilbain8736

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnturner4400 Was that at the top of Station Street? I used to live in Notts and remember something about it.

Good to see somebody remembering the trams, if you can get hold of a copy the book "The wheels used to talk to us" is an informative and entertaining reminisance of a former London tram driver from WW1 to the end of the trams.

@JeMappelleFrikandel

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, sounded interesting so I just purchased a copy off of Ebay.

@Schwertsan

2 жыл бұрын

I, too, love a good story about trams or trolleys, so I have a copy from eBay on its way as well.

@johnjephcote7636

2 жыл бұрын

After the official reception of the 'last car' by Lord Latham late at night, another one came in, much later after the crowds had melted away. Not trying to be the last, but from Abbey Wood, just delayed picking up many passengers and trying to complete the long run back.

@ktipuss

2 жыл бұрын

There's also "London Tramway Twilight" by Robert J Harley, and "Operation Tramaway" by J.Joyce.

I was head of tramway planning at TfL from 2003 till 2009. There's quite a story there as well!!

@MrGreatplum

2 жыл бұрын

I can imagine - I can think of two unfulfilled tram schemes of that time!

@MrLukealbanese

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrGreatplum no comment 🤔. At least not in a public forum!!

@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1

2 жыл бұрын

I want ask how close Cross River Tram was from actually going ahead

@MrLukealbanese

2 жыл бұрын

@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 if Ken had remained as Mayor, much closer than it actually got.

@craigthomson3621

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrLukealbanese yes it was Boris that scrapped the cross river tram.

Living in San Francisco, I am glad that the generations before us were able to save our cable cars and streetcars (though highly reduced). Can never imagine SF without them.

@AaronSmart.online

2 жыл бұрын

Everyone knows about the cable cars in SF, but the F line was a nice surprise when I visited. It was really convenient as a tourist too.

@JimInRoses

2 жыл бұрын

When I first visited San Francisco in 1975, I was impressed by the diversity of the public transport. Five different types: the iconic cable cars, trams/streetcars, trolley buses, motor buses, and the very new BART. Last time, in 2014, I liked the way the cars on the F line were painted in the liveries of different tram systems around the world.

@vincentng2392

2 жыл бұрын

@@JimInRoses Did you also take the commuter train (Caltrain) as well?

@JimInRoses

2 жыл бұрын

@@vincentng2392 No, but in 2014 we arrived in Emeryville having taken the train from New York.

@professormicron6470

2 жыл бұрын

I always looked at San Francisco PCCs with a lot of jealousy, but also a bit of hope, especially after the tram company in my home city just casually scrapped the largest single type fleet of preserved 50s trams in Europe and nobody even tried to stop them (at least nobody who would have the means to do it). It's always good to see that there are places in the world where this probably wouldn't be allowed to happen

My grandfather ( mother's side) drove trams for Glasgow Corporation for about 30 years. In the early 1960s the trams were withdrawn and there was a farewell parade of some current and vintage trams. My grandfather drove one of the trams in the parade, and the tram is now preserved at the Glasgow Transport Museum.

@johnjephcote7636

2 жыл бұрын

I was there on the last weekend; September '62. I remember the women drivers but they were not allowed to continue as 'bus drivers. Seems crazy now.

Thanks. I visited the National Tramway Museum yesterday. They had a recently-restored London tram on display. Not running quite yet - it is awaiting final commissioning - but great to see.

@phaasch

2 жыл бұрын

The east Anglian museum of transport is another good place. They have several London trams, and trolleybuses in operational condition.

Trolley buses yes please. I saw the last in Reading/ Tilehurst. I loved the sound of them.

I'm watching this with bemusement from the city with the largest tram network in the world. Yes, Melbourne did scrap a lot of lines, but we kept most of them. I can't imagine living in a city where you can't just jump on a tram and easily get to almost anywhere.

@OzzieJayne

2 жыл бұрын

Have a gander at the demise of the trams in Geelong, Bendigo and Ballarat (all 3 were under the control of the State Electricity Commission) , similar processions to those in London. Give us a double decker tram in Melbourne, though, please and thank you!

@DevilishScience

2 жыл бұрын

And very good for trapping non-Melburinans turning right.

I'm still sad all the Trams of my childhood in Hamburg and Birmingham are gone. I quite liked Trolley busses too.

Here in Australia, Melbourne never got rid of its trams and now has the largest and most comprehensive tram network in the world. It’s a wonderful thing and has set Melbourne apart from all other cities. Sydney has realised the sense of a good tram network and has started to reestablish one.

@smitajky

2 жыл бұрын

When it extended from Union Road to Box Hill it still failed to recognise what I believe is essential for the future. Instead of banning parking and putting the rails at the edge of the road, which enables passengers to alight directly to the footpath, it continued to put the rails down the middle of the road. THEN had to move the stops out into the road. Which is very dangerous for me on a pushbike. A road that I have ridden on for sixty years. Simply we could, and should be doing better for the benefit of the future.

@miscbits6399

11 ай бұрын

Sydney's original trams were fairly unique inasmuch as they were CABLE drawn like many of those in San Franciso. The Powerhouse Museum in Sydney was literally the power source for most of the inner city tram network and the winding engines for several of the cableways

Great explanation of an unforgettable era of London

Another gem, Jago. Looking forward to more on London's trams & trolley buses, sir.

I remember the trolly-busses of Bournmouth. They were all canary yellow! And very quiet. They endured a bit after the last steam rail service on Southern Railways region (BR), which I recall as a wee nipper.

@rodjones117

2 жыл бұрын

There were often problems going round Cemetry Junction, and not operated on Richmond Hill, if memory serves. Conductors had long poles to put the gantry (or whatever they are really called) back on the wires. I do remember them fondly though - part of my childhood memories. Bournemouth's buses are still yellow, of course.

I remember the trams well tripping down Battersea Rise and up Lavender Hill (don’t you know!) taking me on my way to Clapham Junction to take me further by Southern Rail up to Waterloo to go to work up Ludgate Hill and The Old Baily! Memories Jago, memories! Thank you!

I was lucky enough to ride on a trolley bus in the early 60's when we lived in Ealing, most likely along the Uxbridge Road to Acton, they glided along silently, well apart from the rattles and squeaks and road noise, but you catch my drift ? I nearly got run over by a tram in Croydon, you don't expect a silent train to be running along in the road, and they are almost silent. It was good to see the trolley bus at the London Transport museum after so many years. It was like seeing tales from the tube in visual form

@patrickpowers5995

2 жыл бұрын

I too rode trolleybuses in Newcastle upon Tyne as a student. You certainly never ran after a departing Trolleybus (well not after once doing so!). Their acceleration was phenomenal.

@sirmeowthelibrarycat

2 жыл бұрын

😊 So did I, on the 607 between Uxbridge and Shepherds Bush. That route still runs as an express service, with the 207 as standard for most of that route to Hayes By-pass.

Becoming more & more interested in theses beautiful old trams. So classy and old fashioned.

For anyone who wants to experience old Trams, there is a Tram Museum in Crich Derbyshire where I am sure some old London trams have been restored to full working order. There is a tram track there which runs though the site. Also the Seaton Tramway in Devon is a special place where you can also ride old trams along the beautiful Axe Valley.

@neilyoungman9814

2 жыл бұрын

The Crich Tramway Museum is definitely worth a visit.

@grahamwhitworth9454

2 жыл бұрын

The Seaton trams are scaled down replicas, not full size originals, but still certainly worth a visit.

@samuelfellows6923

2 жыл бұрын

And the Beamish open-air museum - it was once a colliery and has a tram line that goes around its rim, and when on holiday nearby we went to it and got on a vintage tram, and dad said “we used to have these in London” 😀

@jonathanma2741

2 жыл бұрын

I believe there are double decker trams running in Blackpool and hong kong

Yes, more trams and trolleybuses, please Jago! My father worked in one of the AEC offices in/near Southall back in the 1960s before the family upped sticks and moved to the wilds of Norfolk. There used to be Christmas parties for the staff and their families held in the massive canteens. I remember going to at least one of these (and also being rather peeved that, in having to attend, I would miss that week's episode of Doctor Who - well, this was long before video recorders were a thing!) A few weeks ago, on a trip to the Bure Valley Railway in Norfolk, I picked up a copy of "The Golden Age of Tramways" by Charles Klapper (1974 reprint) in the secondhand bookshop that's part of the Wroxham station. As it's the next book to read on my book pile (and I've just finished the previous book) the timing of this video is rather appropriate! Cheers!

Bring back the Trams in London and all major city's I'm going have to watch that Elephant that never forgets film on KZread 👍

@heidirabenau511

2 жыл бұрын

London does have trams you know

@trevorrandom

2 жыл бұрын

Croydon

@surreygoldprospector576

2 жыл бұрын

It's a good film if you can find it. (The Elephant in question is obviously the Elephant & Castle...)

@dancedecker

2 жыл бұрын

It is an absolutely fantastic film. I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely . Very well edited and very emotive. Enjoy. Cheers

@srfurley

3 ай бұрын

@@dancedecker It was made for London Transport by British Transport Films, one of a series of films under the Cine Gazette name. It was only supposed to be a short item, and the makers got into trouble for spending beyond the allocated budget, but it became one of their best known and most popular films. Years ago I projected it, on 35 mm, at a show for the late John Huntley. Many BTF films were made available on DVD from the British Film Institute.

Bordeaux has dual voltage trams. Under the wires mostly but battery running in old parts of the city so that the catenary doesn't disfigure the architecture.

@davidcronan4072

2 жыл бұрын

So does Birmingham

@johnbrogan434

2 жыл бұрын

The parts. without overhead wires use a power system called APS. It looks like a strip of metal between the rails and becomes live in the section underneath the tram. A number of surface contact systems were used on Tramways in Britain

London Transport: We're replacing them with a more modern and attractive form of transport Also London Transport: *Diesel buses, take it or leave it* Trolleybuses and trams are very much still thriving here in Pyongyang, in fact this past Day of the Sun (a holiday celebrating the birth of my grandpa) we opened a new trolleybus line from Songyo to Songhwa. Glad we have them

@mushroomcrepes4780

2 жыл бұрын

thank you mr kim

Very enjoyable. Brings back memories of when I was about 3 or 4 years old. I remember my mother taking me on a trolley here in New Haven, Connecticut and telling me to remember it. I don't know if I really do remember it, or all the times she spoke of it. Interesting that you call them trams, while we say trolley. But you use the term trolley bus. Ah, the English language, gotta love it. ❤️

I love the trams and trolley buses I come across in Eastern Europe. In Budapest I saw some interesting hybrids, diesel bendy buses with retractable electric pickups. So they can drive like regular buses where there's no power, but hook onto the overhead cables when they're available - brilliant!

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

Lisbon has a tram service and some of the gear looks distinctly hold. I saw a youtube video and it looked like a seat of the pants ride.

@juststeve5542

2 жыл бұрын

@@eattherich9215 I feel the same about the Paris Metro, it feels like it's made of recycled 2CVs, and is quite a culture shock when used to the modern London tube trains. However, probably the "quaintest" is the M1 line in Budapest, the second underground in the world. Cut and (barely) covered, you can see the legs of the people on the street above when standing on the platform, and the trains are tiny. Quite low in height and only a couple of carriages long. Bit noisy too! The rest of the Budapest network is more modern, but I think the M1 tunnels and platforms are just too small for anything bigger!

@ballyhigh11

2 жыл бұрын

@@eattherich9215 That will be tram 28 which uses historic, wooden vehicles. It is tremendous fun to travel on as it seems to skim buildings with barely centimetres to spare. It's a regular service, but is primarily for tourists I think. The tram museum (in Belém, I think) is very interesting.

@ballyhigh11

2 жыл бұрын

@@juststeve5542 The communist era 'rest of the Budapest network' rolling stock are rather beautiful imo. I love the light fittings.

Thanks for that, I always enjoy your content.

Modern trams seem to have less interaction with other traffic. Tram stops resemble train stations, and wherever possible lights control passage in the tram's favour. This is an observation, not a complaint.

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 жыл бұрын

Here in Sheffield a lot of the tram track is segregated and only runs along the road where there is no alternative. There is one section where they built a viaduct for the tram so it could take the steep hill more gradually and another where there is a tunnel to take it across a busy interchange.

@johnjephcote7636

2 жыл бұрын

It is what London could have done, but Lord Ashfield had already gone over to the trackless camp before the War. When the Great West road was widened, the opportunity to put the trams in the centre reservation was ignored. In Britain there was no law that traffic had to stop to allow passengers alighting from the tracks in the centre of the road. All modern tramways, such as the Polish ones I know, have all these features...central reservations and protected 'stations' for passengers and traffic lights automatically changed by the 'cars'.

Very fortunate to live in a city that retained its trams (Melbourne). How sad that so many cities did not. I can't imagine daily life here without them. It was really just an accident of timing and circumstance that saved our trams... we had just upgraded from the old cable tram system to an electric one between WW1 and WW2, so our infrastructure and rolling stock were relatively new, unlike so many other cities at that time. Great video :)

@smitajky

2 жыл бұрын

There was a lot more to it. Petrol shortages of ww2, wide roads. Lack of capital for replacement. And just pure conservatism. Yet it worked. We were so much luckier than other places which "modernised" to the detriment of their residents. I used to wonder about "the world's most liveable city" Until I visited Sydney. Badly maintained diesel buses belching their fumes onto the footpath. Clogged streets. Poor air quality. Thank goodness that we did not make that mistake.

@marksc111

2 жыл бұрын

@@smitajky And a strong union helped too

@ktipuss

2 жыл бұрын

Victoria's Liberal Party premier Henry Bolte wanted to close Melbourne's tram system, but couldn't, because it was run by an autonomous corporation and not directly by the Victoria government. State Govt did own the Ballarat and Bendigo systems (via the Electricity Board) and he did close those two.

What a memory jogger! I remember, as a four-year-old lad, being taken for rides on the old London Trams. I also use the Croydon Trams now quite regularly. Thanks for this excellent video, Jago.

@johnjephcote7636

2 жыл бұрын

We are the same age then. I have a super system in Nottingham (partly EU funded) and nearby, in Sheffield. I tried for a long time to get a piece of tramrail when they were building Nottm's system but two super women from Midland Metro/Balfour Beatty presented me with one. I have it with the flattened penny that I placed on the rails at Dalmuir West when Glasgow's 'caurs' were abandoned in September 1962.

Great Vlog. The mysterious black box you showed is a former tramway feeder box. This one is post 1933 as it has a roundle cast in to the door. With regards to RM's. These were not introduced until the late 50's. RT's were supplemented by RTL's and RTW's. Both types were built by Leyland. The former to overcome limited supply from AEC of RT's. The RTW's were introduced to prove eight wide buses could run in London without problems. This followed on from a batch of trolley buses destined for South Africa running in East London. These were eight foot wide.

@surreygoldprospector576

2 жыл бұрын

There were three kinds of electrical feeder box - a big and small London Transport one, and an older ex-tramways one that said "L.C.C Tramways" on the door (London County Council). When the trams and trolleybuses ended in London in the 1940s-1960s it was still a time of austerity in the UK after the war, so a lot of equipment got re-used. Depots became bus garages, the street poles became lamp-posts (lots in Newham which was a relatively poor borough at the time), and the cable ducts under the pavement were even used for cable TV in the 1970s. A few feeder boxes were kept by LT to be used mainly for bus inspectors (remember them?) at key points.

Thanks - was nice to see. Here in The Netherlands, trams are ubiquitous and we have a wonderful tram museum in Den Haag that runs special services out to the beach and around the city in the summer. Nice to see old shots of London!

xcellent video! It was crazy to get rid of the trams and crazier still to get rid of the trolley buses. Compared with them, diesel buses were not progress

It's funny as a middle-aged man myself to think that trolleybuses were the equivalent of fax machines today: new fangled technology sweeping the old ways aside, that became (apparently) obsolete after merely 30 years. DVDs anyone?

Jago, I know you normally do London stuff, but if trams are currently floating your boat, the system in Wolverhampton may be of interest to you, as in the early days they used the Lorain System of surface stud contacts for power (equivlent of having third rail in the road...well...nearly)

@johnjephcote7636

2 жыл бұрын

The conduit system was buried deep under the tracks but f the studs of the Lorain or Doulter systems did not spring back into the 'dead' position (owing to filth on the surface) after a 'car's' passing, then one's horse would definitely no longer be in the 'live' position.

@JagoHazzard

2 жыл бұрын

Well, I do have at least one non-London tram video in the queue - and there was a little preview of it in this video…

@olly5764

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnjephcote7636 part of the problem was that the iron in the shoes of a stationary horse could also pull the studs of the Lorain system in too, frying the horse!

The end of the orginal Birmingham tramways holds a special place in my family's history. The final services ran on July 4th 1953, the day that my Nana Joyce and Granddad Fred got married. They had the ceremony, enjoyed the reception and ended their special day by taking the very last tram service back to the depot. They were happily married for 46 years, raising my Mum and her seven siblings.

Thank you Jago for taking up my previous suggestion of more Tales from the Trams!

I love trams, luckily we still have quite a network for them here in Toronto, though they do call them streetcars here. The Halton Radial Railway museum not far outside the city has some of the older specimens in their collection and you can even ride them there.

The Kingsway tramway tunnel, our very good friends Mr Tim Dunn and le Divine Siddy Holloway featured the tunnel on the excellent Secrets of the London underground. A superb series on Yesterday tv

@JohnADoe-pg1qk

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. 👍

Perhaps in a future video you could go in to how the London trams were powered not by overhead cable (like most other UK tram systems) but by a centre rail pickup.

@JohnADoe-pg1qk

2 жыл бұрын

As far as I know, the rail pickup was used only in central London, because ... some ... people didn't like the overhead cables. And this rail pickup system needed more maintenance.

@robtyman4281

2 жыл бұрын

Colin D - only in Central London was this the case, because the city authorities didn't want 'unsightly' wires obscuring buildings and making the centre look untidy. They used a 'shoe'.....similar to third rail trains, but more concealed to prevent people being electrocuted. But outside central London, the London trams were powered by overhead wires. I don't know where they decided central London ended and greater London started, but that's why they would stop for a prolonged period in certain places in London (boundary between central and greater) - to allow for power to be transferred from overhead to underneath.....and vice versa.

@roberthuron9160

2 жыл бұрын

An addendum; two cities in the US used conduit[i.e. center slot,former cable car conduit],and they were New York,and Washington,DC! The Manhattan lines were also extended into Brooklyn and Queens,as they used the Brooklyn Bridge,and 59th Street Bridge,and the network of trolleys was huge! Now it's only a faint memory,and as with London,the state and suburbs are far worse off,for it! Thank you,Jago,your explorations,and side trips,just add to the history of an interesting town!! Thanks again 😊!

@henrybest4057

2 жыл бұрын

@@robtyman4281 The boundaries were set by the local councils. Westminster was against overhead wires and I believe Kensington was also against them. Therefore, the change over points were in convenient places just outside the boroughs that rejected overhead wires. Remember that the boroughs were much smaller then and much of what we now call London was Middlesex and Essex.

Trams were environmentaly friendly,very 2022, a visit to Crich tramway museum is highly recommended.

Trams are indeed fascinating and engender great affection - I remember the Cologne strassenbahnen very fondly from my student days in the eighties and wondering why we didn't have such a wonderful system in the UK. I also remember the trolleybuses in Belfast. I, as a child, thought they were excellent but they were openly disliked. I look forward very much to your examination of those unsung trolleybuses. Thank you!

@ballyhigh11

2 жыл бұрын

My dad grew up in Belfast and as far as he was concerned where the tram stopped the country started! I think they were disliked because they were extremely noisy.

Here in Chicago the trolleybuses were pitched as a modern, efficient replacement for streetcars. They were instrumental in dismantling what was once one of the largest street railways in the world. But, of course, as soon as the last of the streetcars were scrapped, the powers that be set about dismantling the new trolleybus network. The last of the trolleybuses were quietly replaced by diesel buses in 1973. To this day Chicago remains the largest city in North America with no electric streetcars or trolleybuses.

Just a note about the Routemaster. It was envisaged during the late 1950s but appeared in 1963, well after the demise of the trams. It was seen as a replacement for trolleybuses.

I was always so fascinated by the seeming maze of tracks (tram - but in the US we tend to call them "streetcars" or "trolleys") at the former trolley barn near where I lived. It was about a decade after the last trams ran in Chicago (Last one ran in June of 1958) when I took notice of the partially hidden by cheap non-complete re-pavement after abandonment. My great Grandfather was a carpenter for the Chicago tram lines. If one added up all the track in Chicago streets (much of it still there under modern pavement) it would count as the most mileage of any system in the world - but for the fact that not anywhere near all of that track was in actual operation at any one given time...

@donkeysaurusrex7881

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder if there’s a distinction in British English that isn’t in American. Americans use the term “streetcar” for these electrified vehicle, but before that there were horsedrawn streetcars on rails. Can anyone enlighten us as to what Brits called the horsedrawn variety?

@henrybest4057

2 жыл бұрын

@@donkeysaurusrex7881 In the UK they were called tramways, as were the very early horse drawn mineral lines, which usually had wooden rails. So the horse drawn predecessors of electric (or sometimes steam) trams were also called trams.

Cool Video Jago… the final scenes of Trams reminded me of the last day of The Routemaster in London. I think The Croydon Tramlink is fantastic. Ken Livingstone did plan a Tram Route from Ealing to Shepherds Bush that never got off the ground.

About the time of the First World War my Great Aunt Dolly who lived in Forest Gate was knocked down and killed by a tram somewhere around that area. Whenever anyone mentioned trams at a family gathering it always brought forth murmurings of "Poor Dolly". My own London tram memory is of my dad taking me on a tram and it descending into the tunnel in Kingsway, Holborn. I must have been 4 years old and I remember being scared but also fascinated by the big brass handles the driver was purposefully pushing and pulling.

@henrybest4057

2 жыл бұрын

I was 6 when my dad took me on that journey through the Kingsway Subway. I don't remember being scared, only sitting in the front nearside seat on the upper deck and the tiling on the walls. I went back inside the subway a couple of weeks ago, on a very interesting Hidden London conducted tour.

@crewkerne40

2 жыл бұрын

I too can just about remember travelling through the Kingsway subway when I was a nipper.Pollution free transport should never have been scrapped but then,back in the 1950s,no one was bothered about pollution.

The numbering of the trams continued from that in the 50s, the last 'new' tram was number 2529. So when the croydon tramlink opened they started at 2530 as a unit designation (you can see 2531 in this video).

When I was a lad living in SE London, I used to know Marie Kingwell, former Mayor of Greenwich, whose father drove the last tram to New Cross. Tenuous link to a bit of fame!!!

I went as a child on one the last Trams down whitehall with my Dad, I was five and still remember it to this Day.

As a far-off north eastern child resident of the early 60s, I was was variously transported about Newcastle either by omnibus or trolley bus. It was the latter I infinitely preferred, with their silent operation, smooth ride and the occasional diversion whereby the cursing conductor would clamber onto the roof to reconnect the disengaged trolley poles. Great days!

@roboftherock

2 жыл бұрын

Copy that, but in Glasgow - and Belfast when on family holidays.

At age of four I vividly remember riding the trams in Woolwich (overhead) and on the Embankment (conduit pickup). It sparked something and I built an E3 car (from scratch-no kits!) in 1952 condition a few years ago, 1/16 size that I run in the garden (overhead, not conduit pick up). The Festival of London meant that Hadfields in Sheffield had to manufacture complicated conduit track and pointwork which would last only a year. In the trolleybus days up to ten years later, one could see wonderful pre-war displays of trackwork even outside in the depot yard.

I watched that film about the last day of the tram only last week. The London Transport Museum has a film archive that has all sorts of footage on any number of subjects.

We had trams in Copenhagen when I grew up, and I was sad to see them go in the early 70's. But lo and behold, they are also making a resurgence, as a tram route called 'Letbanen' (the light rail) will open in a few years. Other Danish cities that have re-opened tram routes are Aarhus and Odense.

@MarceloBenoit-trenes

2 жыл бұрын

The destruction of Copenhaguen tramways was one of those unexplainable things... some of the cars still run in Alexandria, Egypt.

I remember the trams in Downham Way, Bromley in outer London. My great aunt lived near the junction at Southover and I could watch the sparks from the pantograph and hear the squeal of the brakes which, I seem to remember ,consisted of steel blocks that contacted the rails. Sometimes the pantograph would come off the wire and have to be replaced with a long wooden pole by the conductor. I seem to recall that you stood at the tram stop on the pavement but when it came, the tram would stop in the middle of the road and you would have to dodge the traffic and get out out to it. My dad was a keen cyclist and often spoke of the danger of getting a bike wheel in the tram tracks.

I traveled on a London Tram, just once, I was 4 years old. I am now a big fan of the Croydon Trams.

The ever irreverent, highly esteemed Goon Show did an episode called The Last Tram in 1954, about a tram driver who decides to hole up in the Kingsway subway to make sure his tram is the last into the depot - not because he’s losing his job or out of sentiment, but because he’s jealous of all the fuss being made over the last tram and wants the attention for himself. It’s one of the most violent episodes of the show, which is saying quite a lot - the last couple of minutes basically devolve into the entire cast (and the announcer) belting each other over the head with shovels. Highly recommended.

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

I'll have to seek out that episode.

1:47 I don’t think Trolleybuses could use existing overhead lines - they need a parallel suspended live and return wire whereas trams typically use a single live wire and return via the rails.

@wclifton968gameplaystutorials

2 жыл бұрын

Some older trolleybuses used a shoe (like a 3rd or 4th rail shoe) connected to the tram tracks to be able to replace the second catenary wire that is normally used by trolleybuses, this would of course only work if both the trams and trolleybuses used the same electrical system i.e. the same voltage and current; this way the trams and trolleybuses can use the same infrastructure...

@LunaDragofelis

2 жыл бұрын

Old trams used wires similar to trolleybuses, contacted by a pole. So it was possible to just add a parallel wire for the bus.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

Correct generally but supports, poles and supply cables would be reuseable

@henrybest4057

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 Trolleybuses used the same voltage as the trams, so very little extra infrastructure was needed. Just an extra wire and some insulators.

I'm lucky enough to live in Melbourne, one of the few major cities to not tare out our vast tram network! Not to say it wasn't a close call, trams had been replaced with busses during the era everyone else was removing tram networks, but we had the foresight (if not lazyness) to not remove the tracks, and eventually trams resumed and exploded into today's iconic Melbourne tram network. Living next to a tram line I've never felt the need to buy a car (I'm actually watching this video on the tram)

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

I loved seeing and riding the trams in Toronto. I even rode one of the old ones that was gradually being replaced by the new model. I would love to see street running trams, lightrail, whatever, reintroduced to the streets of London. I discount the Croydon Tramlink because that is only an out surburban service.

Well I had fun fun fun watching this tram tram tram video. Great video Jago.

Fascinating video. In Edmonton, just up the road from me, we have a Tramway Avenue where there once stood the old depot. Although it was closed in about 1986 and subsequently flattened for housing, the name lives on.

I can just recall trolley busses in London.. even rode one.. so looking forward to another video of social history, excellently delivered. It’s videos like this that in my view make Jago more important than some other transport commentators.

Great to see you look at trams. Look forward to more.

Way too young to enjoy that final goodbye at New Cross Depot but old enough to have been taken by my father on a (nostalgic for him) trip from Plumstead to Woolwich during Last Tram Week in 1952. I've still got the ticket!! In fact, where we lived in South East London we hardly saw a diesel bus (apart from the green ones) until our local trolleybuses went in 1959. Now that I DO remember!!

Hi Jago, Manchester based here and the Metro (tram) system in Greater Manchester is a godsend for me. No need to own a car as they cover all areas now. Apart from Blackpool's sea front trams I think Manchester was the first (?) City to reintroduce trams. Due to the first routes being on old railway lines the stations platform's are raised. This has ment the newer expanded lines have kept platform height tram cars, it was much cheaper than having to build low entry tram stops. Now of course many cities have reintroduced tram systems. As a kid going to big cities like Leeds, Bradford and riding on trams and trolley buses were a special treat. Ah, memories. Cheers

@JagoHazzard

2 жыл бұрын

I have a video on the Metrolink in the queue, as it happens…

Thx, Jago. I really love these old trams and associate buildings. More of both, please !

I remember! Those were the days: trams, steam locomotives, trolly buses... er... school canings... er... smog, polio, TB and... er... yeah, well. ;) Seriously though, I loved the red London trams; I was there, they were great. Thanks for the memory! Cheers :)

Trams have always been part of where I grew up and live. At one point it was the only place in the UK where you could ride a tram all year round. I did my school work experience at Blackpool Transport's Rigby Road tram depot in 1997.

I traveled on the London trams as a kid and was sorry to see them go. But I have since paid the London trams a visit at Crich. Thanks for the video Jago.

In Ireland the light trains i.e. trams were removed in the 1950's and they are now being put in at great expense.

The opening night shot has some impressive halation around the lights - perfect illustration of why film generally incorporated an anti-halation backing.

very nice movie ! great thanks for posting !

As a resident of Melbourne and having ridden along the front at Blackpool as a child, I will forever hail the trams as a splendid form of public transport. TFP

Next: Trolley buses! We used to go to see granny on one! I loved them.

The tram depot in my home town became the bus depot, and now a car park.

I'm just too young to have travelled on London's trams (born in '56), but I have a vivid memory of riding a trolley bus up the hill to Ally Pally. It was a quiet Sunday morning and dad and I were almost the only passangers. Highlight of the trip was watching the driver reattach the pick up shoe to the overhead wire with a long pole stored under the bus. Like fishing in the air. And all so quiet: even modern diesel buses are rough and noisy by comparison.

Germany is experimenting with trucks running on motorways using overhead cables. So trolleys may come back. Maybe other vehicles could use this system too? My father loved the trams in London.

My Dad (Hackney, Dalston etc.) remembers when the trolley buses appeared. When he first hopped on he said that the acceleration nearly pulled his arm out of his shoulder socket !

There's also a tram depo in West Norwood (nowadays a self storage place), an another one in Wandsworth (just next to Wandsworth Bridge - now a bus depo) and in Chiswick (also a bus depo). In Cheswick there's also a former tramway power plant.

I would like to see a short video about the London tram ‘change pits’, their operation and locations, where the catenary collection was swapped for under-tram collection.

@boblennox9251

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/a3l6yKZmZbmuec4.html This tells you a bit about the change pits.

What a beautifully unexpected video. I totally recommend, nay insist, that you track down the Giles' cartoon of the last tram. It is wonderfully evocative, and he absolutely loved drawing trams. It'll be in the Daily Express of or near the 5th of July 1952, in that year's annual, and turns up every so often in annuals of celebrities' chosen favourite Giles cartoons. Trams are amazing. This is a study you really must take up. The biggest network outside London was Glasgow's tram network, generally reckoned to be one of the most extensive in Europe, where at one time you could travel all the way from Balloch on Loch Lomond to Airdrie on various networks, or Milgavie to Paisley, and all points inbetween.

In Edinburgh, in 1956, I was in the Cubs and usually would get the tram afterwards from Granton to Leith to stay with my aunt. But the service had been withdrawn months earlier and it was now the bus. However, one night there were no buses either: the last tram ceremony was happening “up the town” and all the buses were delayed. So a long walk for an 11 year old.

My uncle Sid (not Sid James btw) used to tell us stories about how he used the said transport you've just described for a tremendous pub-crawl in the locality where he lived. I'm lead to believe that he started the expression "getting trollied/we all got trollied etc". I could be wrong obviously but hey ho. Kind regards as always XJ6.

There should be more trams, less busses, more rail freight and far less articulated lorries, the reopening of many axed railbeds (trams or light railways). And cars being totally banned from city centres, other than for domestic access where essential.

Melbourne Australia, where I grew up, has an extensive tram network.Sydney Australia got rid of their trams in the 50's but in recent years they have started bringing them back.

I lived in Melbourne (Australia) - a city which never got rid of its trams! Although it came close to doing so in the 1960s. They are still going strong. It's a pity that when the cable lines were converted to the electric, one wasn't kept, but, during the war it was hard to get the cables from England so it was shut down in 1940.

I liked the shots of the West Ham car in the LT Museum, my great grandfather was a tram driver for East Ham Corporation Tramways (i have a pic of him im his uniform taken at my old house), East Ham being the other bit of what became Newham. Plus a fun fact, the Croydon trams carried on the LT tram numbering system, their first tram being 2530, 2529 being the highest one back in the 1940s, plus of course the Croydom tarms were red & cream as well rather than their now more garish green.....

Such a sad lil story. Glad some where brought back!

Thanks Jago ! Yes trolley bus history would be good too !

Trams are my favourite form of transport to ride on, although trains are more fascinating for many reasons. But as much as I love them, I believe that the future of urban public transport is trolleybuses with batteries. Wires are cheaper to put up than wires and having to fit tracks into the road (plus less risk of cyclists getting stuck), they're more flexible in routes, and can go off route completely if switching to battery power, as well as being able to have only about 50% of the route under the wires (depending on how good the batteries are).

@adrianthoroughgood1191

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Tracks are great for speed silence and efficiency. But as a cyclist they are horrible. I've never got stuck but they are extremely slippery, deadly when wet. You have to arrange your riding to be either to the left or between them and can't move in and out thet way you normally would. Quite problematic with other traffic on the road. You have to cross them at a steep angle to avoid trouble which again is a problem when there are other vehicles in the way. It makes they whole process much more stressful and risky.

@phaasch

2 жыл бұрын

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Not much fun for vintage cars, either! (If you've ever seen "Genevieve")

@ballyhigh11

2 жыл бұрын

I had a horrible encounter with an embedded track on my bike many years ago. I crossed the line at a very shallow angle and my front wheel slipped into the rail gulley. I came to an almost instant stop and I was pretty much catapulted from my saddle onto the road. A train (it was a narrow gauge railway, rather than tramline) was just behind me and fortunately the driver slammed on the breaks in time. I still have the occasional nightmare about it to this day.

@MarceloBenoit-trenes

2 жыл бұрын

First, the issue is NOT FROM TRAMS, but from the cyclists! And most trams now are built mostly segregated from other stupid drivers. However, how in Netherlands and Switzerland there are a lot of bicycles and no problems with tracks? Humm...

The last tram was crowded by Henry Crun and Minnie Bannister, and was delayed in the Kingsway Subway by Eccles, who couldn't be thrown from the tram because he had a ticket.

Hindsight, wonderful as it is, makes it clear that swapping trams and trolleybuses for buses wasn’t the best move. A shame, but there we are. Great video as always; keen to see the London’s trolleybuses (maybe other places’ too?) video in the future!

One of my uncles (sadly no longer with us) was lucky to ride on the very last tram to New Cross Depot.

My Grandparents who lived just off the Old Kent Road told me all about the Trams and the last day. They were there.

Oh yes please. Trams and trolley busses, so much material there. 👍

Leeds became home to most of the Felthams when they were scrapped, (approx 192), hence it became known as the second hand tram city as it had several other city’s trams. It kept one after abandonment in 1959 but was destroyed by vandals unfortunately. They looked great!

Do you think that it would be a good idea for TFL to reintroduce trolleybuses on their most major routes to cut down on carbon emissions. Great video by the way.

@neiloflongbeck5705

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on how the electricity is produced. If it comes from burning fossil fuels then it makes only a slight difference overall ti the CO2 emissions. It would make the streets cleaner and less polluted.

@katbryce

2 жыл бұрын

If you are going to have a vehicle that requires an external power supply, I think trams are better. Of course they are introducing a lot of battery electric vehicles, and my experience of riding on them is that they are pretty good.

@neiloflongbeck5705

2 жыл бұрын

@@katbryce except that trams, whilst possessing a greater carying capacity, will always be limited to fixed routes that will need all utilities shifted from below the tracks to allow maintenance. Trolley buses as used in the UK from the 1911 until 1972 (both in Bradford) were also limited to the wires, but with today's battery technology that's no longer an issue.

@soj_89

2 жыл бұрын

Even trolley hybrid buses with batteries when they are disconnected from the lines would work to prevent the issue of fixed routes

EXCELLENT! A welcome addition to a neglected side of rail transport in the U.K. and London in particular. Unfortunately once the LT cardiganmen had destroyed London's tram system, they came to Sydney NSW and recommended that the NSW government do the same with Sydney's very large tram system (second only in size to London's). A tram-hating NSW premier, J.J. Cahill, was only too happy to listen. The trams had all gone by February 1961. Not only that, but they advised NSW railways to cancel track quadruplication from Strathfield to Epping and Hornsby; as a result we still have congestion on this busy line with seven passenger services interspersed with heavy coal and freight trains each hour even on weekends. London's old trams looked quaint today but they were quite respectable looking even by the 1950's, especially the downstairs interiors.