I actually think it's quite a handsome looking car. Well proportioned, clean and understated.

@MarinCipollina

Жыл бұрын

Much too bland to be a proper Cadillac.

@Stressless2023

11 ай бұрын

I agree I always thought this body style looked classy and elegant - I think this design aged better than the Lincoln Mark although I like those too... I do agree with him that the 16" factory wheels on these always looked too small with too much tire sidewall, same for the Seville wheels.

@kayeninetwo3585

11 ай бұрын

I also agree...the body style is much better than Bill says. It's elegant and sleek...frankly, much better than that late '70's or '80's Eldorado he mentioned, but to each their own. If these are going for under 10 grand in good condition, I'd say that represents an excellent value for a collector car. They will likely appreciate over time. As to retaining the same basic body style for a long time, that's kind of an idea borrowed from the European luxury brands like Jaguar, Mercedes and BMW. It gives a nicely styled car a sense of tradition or heritage.

@Edward-tp5nc

10 күн бұрын

My Mom bought one new. It was a very nice comfortable powerful Luxury car.

Today, "luxury" is all about how many screens they can fit inside of the vehicle.

@gladememmott3001

Жыл бұрын

True story and it's lame.😢

@robertstone9988

Жыл бұрын

Don't forget to be modern luxury it has to be a ev cross over too or all them giant tuch screens mean nothing.

@Anonym-kd5wf

Жыл бұрын

This is Not true

@jazzjokesjalopies

Жыл бұрын

I just stay home and watch the new cars on the screen.

@stoneylonesome4062

Жыл бұрын

Yes, when these new luxury cars are as old as the El Dorado is, you’re not even gonna be able to drive or use them, because they’re gonna have so many broken plastic parts in the power train, and so many electronic problems with computer chips that no one will be able to fix and will require $10K diagnostic tools and software you won’t be able to get licenses for.

“You can tell that Cadillac was defeated by this time”… what a great description of the interior!

I remember the first time I saw one of these on the road in my home town in Red and I was blown away. I was like, "Wow What Is That??" It looked so different from anything else, and still holds its style today. imo.

@303chrisv

Жыл бұрын

You cannot be serious.

@cscms28

11 ай бұрын

@@303chrisv Heck yeah! It must have been 1992 I have a distinct memory of seeing this car, in red, with some rich looking blond woman it, and doing a double take. It was different, its was big, it looked rich. Of course I like the 1985 Biarritz better, and the 1976 convertible even better, but, this was a cool looking car. I liked the Seville STS more, That was a great car. Those even still look good today. imo.

@CH67guy1

7 ай бұрын

I remember the first time I saw the new 1992 Eldorado. I was at a Cadillac dealer in Ohio. I thought it was the most stunning car I’d ever seen. And finally in 2018 I bought a 1994 Eldorado with just 24,000 miles on it. I drive it every day and I love it!

@t.a-8469

6 ай бұрын

For me it was the tail ! I saw the thin bright lights and was mesmerized it has a villainess look to it.

@CH67guy1

6 ай бұрын

@@t.a-8469 Villainess huh? I had to look that word up! “A woman who is a villain.” Actually, I think the Cadillac XLR has a sinister look to it!

I was 21 in 2007 and traded in my 1998 Camaro V6 with T-Tops for a Crimson Pearl (basically candy apple red) over tan leather 1999 Eldorado ETC just like this black one minus the sunroof. Everyone thought I was crazy until they rode in it. I adored that car and still miss it to this day. The day I bought it I took it home and went over it with a coat of cleaner wax and followed that with a polishing wax. That car was so slick you literally couldn't sit anything as light as a towel on the hood without it sliding straight off. If you really want to surprise someone, take off with the gear selector in 2nd. That tells the computer to increase line pressure in the transmission. It'll start off in first like normal, but stomp it to the floor and when it hits second gear it will break traction on dry pavement.

@jsciarri

11 ай бұрын

Too bad the 1998 Camaro V6 is now worth more money than any of these turds. One of the most unreliable engines ever and about as bland and boring as anything around at the time.

@iluvcamaros1912

11 ай бұрын

@@jsciarri Perhaps it's subjective but the big GM FWD cars aren't bland and boring to me. The Camaro would've had Cavalier build quality and the same steering wheel as a Lumina. This would've felt like a leather wrapped spaceship compared to a crude F-body. Too bad about the Northstar headgaskets tho.

@griffinrichmond3442

2 ай бұрын

gonna try this today! I recently bought a 98 eldorado etc and i wanted to get the wheels to spin a bit

I love that gauge cluster. Not sure why, but the big analog gauges make me smile.

@MarinCipollina

11 ай бұрын

Unlike the Eldorado, the Seville STS that year had a gated transmission selector.

HI BILL! 👋 Just wanted to say that I'm a huge fan, been a huge friend for years. I also want to show my appreciation for all your work. YOU REALLY ARE A GAME CHANGER. The amount of time, effort, knowledge, muggy 🥵 shit*y miserable, florida weather 🌡️ you put up with every time you produce your videos. I know it's alot to keep going but you master it everytime and maintain your hilarious sense of humor 😂. so for that THANK YOU!. LOVE YOU BILL!!

@royperry2859

Жыл бұрын

Bill you made my Monday with this video! My wife's late father had a car like this light as his last car it had a full canvas top! This car really was the last of its kind. Once again a well-produced video another reason I am proud to be an American! Have a happy 4th of July!🎉

@jamesboulas3451

Жыл бұрын

​@@royperry2859Ed 0:13 ❤😂

@jamesboulas3451

Жыл бұрын

W I

@hertzair1186

Жыл бұрын

By the way, is Dalton out? Did he get out?

@rudolphguarnacci197

11 ай бұрын

What game?

As the owner of a 1998 Lincoln Mark VIII, I love the good ‘ol American luxury coupes. Would love to add a ETC to my garage, too!

I still say..the 67/68 Eldorado...one of the greatest designs ever.

@curbozerboomer1773

Жыл бұрын

Most ALL of GMs offerings during the mid-later 60s were stunning. American cars in general really hit some sort of peak during that time period....then came the lame 1970s....etc.

@LongIslandMopars

Жыл бұрын

My cousin had a '68 that he bought used back in the 80s. Poor thing; he was a car killer. Busted the front drive shafts from one too many burnouts. Miss that car to this day.

Had a 1998 model and loved it. Bought it right off the showroom floor in Chattanooga TN. Crimson red with beautiful white leather interior. Never had any issues with the Northstar engine which surprised the hell out of me but never did. GM should have made this car with rear wheel drive and offered a 305 cid and 350 cid. And with a special order 400 cid. If GM had done all this, they would have sold a lot more of them I believe.

@jefferyepstein9210

Жыл бұрын

They were going through that weird phase then.

@dionrau5580

Жыл бұрын

Still are, IMO.

@jamesbass9797

Жыл бұрын

@@dionrau5580 -- I agree. Cadillac hasn't made a real Cadillac since this model Eldorado was cancelled. All they do now is re-badge a Chevy Suburban and charge an enormous amount of money for it. No thanks.

@nickyj3571

11 ай бұрын

2000-2011 DeVille was a big body Northstar after that idk I stopped following except for the black wing

@jamesbass9797

11 ай бұрын

@@nickyj3571 -- Black wing is not a Cadillac. It's a nice car but it's just not a Cadillac.

I have started listening to these videos on the way to work. Puts me in a proper frame of mind. Also very useful when i'm contemplating my next second hand purchase

I think most of these either ended up as "mechanic's specials" , in the salvage yard, or beaten to death by the 5th owner in some ghetto. It really was a beautiful car, however.

@radicalizedoffline1103

Жыл бұрын

very true

@rpsmith2990

Жыл бұрын

This was sad but definitely the truth. Of course, where I live, the same fate awaits a lot of BMWs and Mercedes Benzes. It's nothing to see a W220 S Class broken down on the side of the road.

@danger450

11 ай бұрын

@@rpsmith2990 Right. Used, quarter of a century old cars are often owned by wanna-bes who bought them at a buy-here pay-here trash dealerships that target uneducated morons to pay 33% APR, with a tracking device .... It happens to many cars.

@WhittyPics

11 ай бұрын

I heard they were hard on head bolts

@robertchristie9434

11 ай бұрын

@@WhittyPics The head bolts had a tendency to stretch causing the head to float with head gasket leaks. By the time it was discovered, the Nothstars were usually out of warranty. for the last three years I had my STS, it would blow out about a quart of coolant every 1,000 miles. So much for flushing the radiator.

Bill, I had 3 of these Eldo's. A brand new 1995 white over glove tan. A 2007 Red over slate grey and finally a 2000 white over cream. I liked them because they were the last of the personal luxury coupes, comfortable with enough power to get you around. The only negative was they were front wheel drive with torque steer. I just hated the direction Cadillac went after that. The "Art and Science" design. I figured they came up with an ugly car and justified it with a fancy name.

@jefferyepstein9210

Жыл бұрын

And don't forget the head gaskets!!!

@d.l.glover2448

Жыл бұрын

@@jefferyepstein9210 Never blew one in any of my Eldo's

@MarinCipollina

Жыл бұрын

Well one of them couldn't have been a 2007, since 2002 was the final year. Maybe 1997 ?

@nickyj3571

11 ай бұрын

Must mean a 97 no 07

Had a 2001 ETC. LOVED IT. Hated the steel head bolts torqued to a aluminum block and lack of real oil pan gaskets. I was lucky enough to have owned 6 Northstars and sold them all well before the head gaskets gave way. I will not temp fate again. Too bad, I LOVE these ETCs.

@bryang9290

11 ай бұрын

I think in 02 thye finally fixed the Northstar head bolt/head gasket problem.

@MostlyBuicks

11 ай бұрын

@@bryang9290 No. They did make some modifications. But this problem continued until the end if production. They refused to spend the money that would have solved this problem once and for all.

@toddprater14

4 ай бұрын

@@bryang9290 they shortened the headbolts for 97-99 stay away….2000 they made them longer with a small pitch change that didn’t do shit… late 04’ or 2nd half of production year they finally went with ls coarser threads and deeper threading in block…it took gm 11 years to figure this out….93-95 I hear are ok cause this was before dexcool that came out in 96’..that original formula would turn acidic and eat away the gaskets…cause let’s face it , dumbasses barley change the oil and they sure ain’t gonna change the coolant and flush system…so people were led to believe they could drive 100 miles with no coolant, drive 10,000 miles between oil changes..by gm…and it all made this engine which is high performance fail…..if you like these old caddy’s. Your choice is 93-95..or late 04’ &all 2005 Devilles and 2006-2011 Dts…

I have a 92 with the 4.9L, white on white. Amazing car. Will never sell it!

Bill, has Dalton been captured yet? I hate to think of him being out there not cleaning windshields properly.

@HypocriticYT

Жыл бұрын

His cell has a window he must clean every day 😮

@kevindarrell3500

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@hertzair1186

11 ай бұрын

He’s detailing the squad cars to pay off the fine

@petesmitt

11 ай бұрын

Doulton? that's ceramicware; I think his name is Dalton.

@HypocriticYT

11 ай бұрын

@@willydavid once I got out of my car my dog would sit in the drivers seat and lick my sunglasses. This did not clean them !

I owned an 02 Eldo, I can promise you they HAD NOT worked out the head gasket in this year. Mine already had a blown head gasket when I got mine for $1000 with 200,000 miles on it. I drove it another 20,000 miles with no issue, although it tired to overheat a lot. I also had an almost new 03 DeVille, it's head gasket went at 106,000 and immediately required a $5000 engine rebuild. The Northstar generation that replaced this was far worse than this one. But 300hp and 30mpg highway was hard to complain about. The buttons, leather, switches, motors and everything else was much better in the 02 Eldo, than the 03 DeVille. I don't always agree with you, but this really was the only time tech and luxury combined sucessfully at Cadillac, and even if it wasn't the last one, it should have been. But the head gasket issues were never worked out. A Northstar is a ticking time bomb.

@MrSloika

Жыл бұрын

Yup. The head gaskets issues were NOT corrected until 2006, even then the Deathstar had NUMEROUS other issues. The last decent Cadillac engine was the 4.9

@CGJ7755

11 ай бұрын

you have to change the coolant every 2 years. if you do that the headgasket can last indefinitely.

Good evening Bill, just in time, another glass of whiskey on the go.

Thanks for all the info. I've learned a lot from your videos. I'm 68 and been a car lover for as long as I can remember. Have a great vacation!

Damn I must love luxury coupes. Currently have a 98 mark viii and a 90 toronado trofeo. I’ve been eyeing these Cadillacs recently.

LOL!! "Soupy curtain of SH*T" That is the best weather description EVER!

Fun Fact: this beaut was the prize for the salespeople in the movie Glengarry Glen Ross. (Although this one is 10 year later and relatively unchanged since 1992 as this video indicates).

@danv8717

Жыл бұрын

We are talking about a Cadillac car that you owe me!

I had a 2001 Eldo. I bought as a salvage title because of a right rear collision. Never had issues with the cooling system or head bolts. But it was a pain to change the alternator and the motor mounts broke. I sold it after 18 months for more than I paid for it. Nice looking and driving car. Took a few long trips with it and it got decent mileage on the highway.

Bill, love your content. Following you for years, always look forward to your next video. Your the escape, the expert, the entertainment and the knowledgeable guy I reference on a regular basis. Thanks for the content

It wasn't until 2005 that all of the Northstar engine problems were completely corrected. By 2005, the Northstar was a great engine and free of problems.

@jsciarri

11 ай бұрын

That's what I was thinking. With 95k on this car, that engine is ready to blow at any time. These cars are beyond worthless.

@michaelpfaff6009

11 ай бұрын

@@jsciarri I agree. When he floored it, I got anxiety.....

Bill from CC, the legend continues!! Good luck at the auction, hope all goes well and cant wait for the next one.

Hey Bill, I love the weather rants, keep em coming!

Your videos always brighten my day.

I’m surprised you’re not thrilled with the styling. I thought GMs last 3 luxo coupes (Riv, Toro, Eldo) were high points - especially after the 80’s where they all looked the same. I’d buy one if a good one came across my interest.

@steveswell1

5 ай бұрын

Jeez, I think these are some of the finest, sleekest designs to come out of the 90s! I had a '95 and LOVED it. No issues other than little bits here and there. Wish I still had it. :)

People that have never owned a Cadillac from the 90’s and previously will never understand…those cars were truly special. Being in them didn’t feel like anything else, even a Lincoln. And the problems are no worse than what you experienced in their foreign competitors. Different, maybe, but no worse. I had the previous gen eldorado; bought it when it was 10 years old for a second car. Had one weird ignition issue (common with gm when they introduced the chip in the key back then) but otherwise, super solid car. With the amount of electronic components, you would think it would’ve been a nightmare, but it was far from it. Maybe they were worked out with the previous owners, but for an Illinois car that was exposed to the elements, it held up well. To this day, I’ve never experienced a/c so frigid in a car. It was nuts.

Interior just like a94 sedan I once had with the 4.9 engine 😊

@MrSloika

Жыл бұрын

If this had the 4.9 engine I'd buy it. You need a 4.6 Cadillac like you need another asshole.

Love your channel and your to the point weather reports.

Thanks Bill. Love your informative, entertaining vids. The mrs leaves me alone to watch😁

Bill, congrats on nearing 150K subscribers! Well deserved

These and the Lincoln Mark VIII were some of my favorite cars in this era. I miss coupes.

@danger450

11 ай бұрын

2014 Mercedes-Benz S 550 Coupe. Go.

Hi Bill! I have learned so much about cars watching your videos. I grew up In Detroit and I didn't know about the Larry Shinoda and Zora Arkus Duntov stories. Thank you for your videos as always. If I ever saw you in a bar, I would buy you a drink.

One of my favorites! loved the commentary aswell!!!!

Thanks always enjoy your stuff

Mannnn I used to love how special these cars looked. I remember getting my asshanded to me when I tried to race my buddies Seville with this engine. That thing ripped and my v6 accord didn’t stand a chance lol

18:58 "you've got a VERY busy ... shaft here" definitely caught me off guard 😂😂

0:39 Soupy curtain of s--t is going to be a new phrase in my vocabulary! Love it!

Love your videos! Especially the American cars/classics. I actually like these El Dorados.

Bill! Awesome car! Had a Crimson ‘95ETC growing up; last of the unhinged Northstar Motors before governing. Much to the behest of others it was a fantastic car that ran like wild.

@steveswell1

5 ай бұрын

Yes, yes, YES! I don't know how he can diss this car. They have pretty much EVERYTHING going for them, especially the later models that had the bugs mostly worked out. It was a beautiful ride and drive, great Bose sound, comfy seats, lovely design, Northstar smooth power, sleek design...come on, man! LOL

Another great review Bill!

Good evening Bill from Ron in a very cool and sunny Manchester. Sorry your weather is shity, nice review

Happy 4th BILL! GOOD VIDIO. I agree with your critique

Good hearing from you Bill .

The orange instrument lighting with the green info, climate and radio displays would drive me crazy. Pick one color or at the very least two colors that go together.

The erudite and detailed commentary got me to subscribe. Very amusing, sir.

Beautiful Cadillac Deathstar engine worked for Cadillac from 1980 to 2014 I have seen it all

Watching this video reminds me of an encounter with a green ETC that I had years ago. The car landed on a lot owned by someone who was apparently selling cars to feed the restoration of a '61 Coupe De Ville. The ETC had all the service paperwork with it, and was a blast to drive. Aside from money, I can't think of why I didn't buy it. Bill, you're at your best with these personal luxury coupes. I'd add that in the end, these are the cars that I miss the most, and wish were still produced.

Thanks, Bill! Cool video

You have best reviews.

Great stuff!

Not bad on paper but the Northstar problems weren't really gone until the 2005 model year if I remember correctly

I am glad to learn Dalton is at work with you.

Thank you Bill. Beautiful Cadillac.

Hi Bill, Thanks for the review, I always thought these were ungainly looking especially the de-chromed versions, but comfortable. I’m a big fan and I look forward to your commentary. Good luck at Mecum and thanks. 👍

@MarinCipollina

11 ай бұрын

I don't think they looked very much like Cadillacs at all. Not enough Cadillac DNA and design language used there.

@CH67guy1

7 ай бұрын

I have a 1994 with all the chrome! I prefer it to the newer models with the big plastic bumper covers and plastic clad door bottoms.

Nice one Bill!

I had a pearl white 99 ETC. I wish I had it back. Great video Bill, good luck at Mecum. Ill be watching

One of my absolute favorite caddies! Gonna have to bulletproof it. Wish it was mine!

@rancon265

Жыл бұрын

How many attempts on your life have you survived?

@palletwizard

Жыл бұрын

@@rancon265 quite a few.

This year of Eldorado was much nicer looking than the ones that came before (1986-91) I like it.

Tragic day when Cadillac stopped manufacturing this personal luxury coupe! I've had tp purchase Benz Coupes... This era of American Luxury will remain a dream. Cadillac still tries to duplicate the German automobile but will never... ever be an American inspired automobile again. GM needs a new CEO who understands what we want to drive...

@egold2071

Жыл бұрын

Aww you just *had to* buy Benz coupes ay? 🎻🎻🎻 Tee hee... which ones? I always thought the '97-02 C208 CLK430s or 55s were extremely sharp. What a shame the only ones I see now are 6 different colors, going 140mph dahh I-79 on a temp'ry spare. 🤌

@johnmcguire9831

Жыл бұрын

agree, Cadillac should just have tried to be, wells , Cadillac

Good show and information

Keep it up Bill and someone is going to make another compilation video with your name on it.

92-93 WITH DA 4.9 V8...DA BEST YEARS

One often overlooked ability of Cadillacs is you can get in and drive with a bum leg or wearing a halo screwed into your skull from a previous vehicle accident 😅I know 😊Those power seats really adjust a lot 😊

My mother-in-law had a 1994 Eldorado that I wish I would have bought from her. It was a smooth ride for sure.

I had a 2001 STS with a Northstar and it never gave me any trouble at all. I traded it in 2009 at 160K- it got great highway mileage and was quite potent for the time.

@mnsugia

Жыл бұрын

What the hell is a Cadamac, is that a new brand from GM?

@JamesSheridan-td4ci

11 ай бұрын

?

@johnj.baranski6553

11 ай бұрын

​@@mnsugiayou think hes saying Cadamac??

@steveswell1

5 ай бұрын

JUST sold my 2004 SLS at 105K that I put 60k miles on...Still ran perfectly and everything worked except a couple window regulators. I know these cars in and out and can fix just about any little bugaboo that creeps up. Wish I could find a black on black STS :)

Always wanted one of these. Love that styling. Saw one for sale on the side of the road but I had already sunk a chunk of money into a Firebird that still won’t run right 🤣

I bet Dalton appreciates you showing his mug shot

I had a 96 Cadillac Deville. I love the Cadillac cars. I had it for a year before my ex decided to use it for a weekend and manage to drop the transmission in it. I lost it and lost my dream. I'd love to have an Eldorado but will never be able to afford one. Thanks, Bill, for giving a boy's dream! Peace!

You do nice cars good job

I've always loved this gen of Eldorados

It was a Northstar that forced me to buy my Lexus GS400 and the uber-reliable 1UZ

@Gr8thxAlot

Жыл бұрын

The Cadillac was cool. Pauly Walnuts drove one. Young people even liked this one. The weak point is indeed the engine.

@pauli6043

11 ай бұрын

I have a 2008 Lexus SC430, the 4.3 V8 is absolutely legendary. And my mom had a 1998 GS400 and then 2001 LS430. Absolutely outstanding vehicles

Gorgeous car. Always loved this era of Cadillac despite the issues.

Liked the Eldo a lot but found the 4-door a tad more practical for us & the STS had an identical interior & running gear, leased a '94 STS. Liked it so much bought a '97 STS (last style year) & kept it for 11 years, put over 240K miles on it. Great, reliable car.

@JasonFlorida

11 ай бұрын

I owned an 02 or 03 STS and it actually was a very good car that never broke down and drove nice even over the 100k expiration

Cheers Bill!

I loved these. Great looking cars.

I love the styling of these cars. So sleek.

Ive owned passenger cars my whole life, but when I told my family I was buying an Explorer the room went still. The silence was only broken by a gasp of air followed by a 'whaaaat ?', and I knew that an era had passed (for me anyway). The era personal luxury cars is truly over. However, the Explorer has been an immensely utilitarian vehicle, far more than any car could ever be (of course). Maybe some things should go quietly into the night.

Loved those and their 4 door brother the STS, I can vouch for 135 with plenty to go. I think Motor Trend had them in a list of cars that could go over 140. Always loved the sound of the exhaust.

@Stressless2023

11 ай бұрын

Yeah Northstars always had a great exhaust note.

Had 1 in same color. I loved it!

Hi Bill.those cars where love at first sight

Alright…Now you did it Bill! My wife now enjoys and laughs at your weather gripes🤣

Got to love GM! They identify a problem early in the production run, then replicate the problem for the next 14 years.

Best Logo on KZread!

These came out when I was 12 and my mom bought one when I was 17 or so. I loved this Eldorado so much. The Northstar is the smoothest, most luxurious and most over engineered POS in the world. I bought one at 30 and had the infamous head gasket issue. Replacing the water pump was the biggest headache in the world. I equally love and hate the Northstar. Had they put a better, easier to service engine in this car they would have had a much longer legacy. Unless you have deep pockets for service, stay away.

Great looking car!

Man, this brings back memories! I special ordered the Corvette Boss 429 for mine. I had the special option of 4 three-barrel Crane carbs and a holley cam.What a tire-smoker!!

@MarinCipollina

11 ай бұрын

What exactly are you talking about?

@markremy4946

11 ай бұрын

@@willydavid Yeah, but did you have the quadruple double overhead crank option with forged plug wires?

@markremy4946

11 ай бұрын

@@willydavid 😀😁

Love it!!!! I remember back in this era !!! Honestly by this time I had turned Hondanese!!!!!! In 2002 I had traded in my 1995 Honda Prelude for a new Honda Accord sedan!!! I was totally sold on Honda by this point, simply because of the reliability and resale value!!!! Today I still have Honda’s!!!!!! But I really like the car!!!!

I always loved the looks of this last Gen of Eldorados

By gosh you nailed it Bill! That interior is the Playschool(TM) version of a W126 interior. Look at me I’m a big boy just like pop!

My face when you said ASHEVILLE!!! -> :0 that’s awesome you found a car here!

This was the generation I grew up with I love it 😀

Happy 4th to ya ! "Open- Gate" policy superlative. Much smoother transition...

LOVE IT!!! I'm about to buy my DREAM CAR 22 Years later!

In fairness, this era Cadillac Eldorado/Seville were the first Cadillacs in many years to not be derived from cheaper GM vehicle platforms, true Cadillac original all the way! These two Cadillacs kept Cadillac from becoming a discontinued make.

I like these older cars with some charm

Growing up I loved these things (I’m an 86 kid from Boston lol) but I had an affinity for big American cruisers. I’m all over old school Germans now. Although I do see what I loved about these so much