Tell'em Harold it's a ground rule double plain and simple.

@televisionarchivestudios1130

2 жыл бұрын

It happens at Wrigley with the Ivory.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

Except it's not a ground rule, It's a book rule. Two bases from the time of the pitch. Also Harold is wrong about intentionally knocking the ball out of play. It is not umpire judgment as to where runners are placed. If it is intentionally knocked out of play it is two bases from the time he deflects it out of play.

@tommycrowley8668

17 күн бұрын

@@alanhess9306I noticed that too. The rule didn’t mention intent. Meaning that you could basically bat it out of play (as long as you never had control of it) and keep a runner from advancing home on a double like what happened in this case. Difference is, by rule you could absolutely do that intentionally and keep a runner from scoring. It’s really strange because even in football, illegally batting the ball out of bounds is a penalty (granted, the penalty yardage is often better than the alternative of the other team getting the ball). In baseball, apparently you could conceivably do that if the conditions are right (low wall, good bounce, etc.) and have it benefit you. Baseball is so weird, but that’s a lot of the reason I love it so much.

GROUND RULE DOUBLES TAKE AWAY RUNS ALL THE TIME REGARDLESS IF IT HITS AN OUTFIELDER FIRST. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. A ground rule double is still a ground rule double.

The rule is perfect the way it is. The important part is not having intent to cause the ball to leave the field of play. To Harold's point early in the video, the fielder can't do anything about the play once the ball is over the fence. If the ball had stayed in play but the runner trips or the fielder has a cannon arm and could have thrown out the runner, once the ball is over the wall, the fielder is screwed. So you can't screw over the defense by effectively treating it like a triple or home run, and you obviously can't screw over the offense by calling it a single. So you compromise and call it a double. Hitting to deep center does not entitle you to 3 bases. Everything else (the fact that it was the go-ahead run, the fact that it happened in a park with a low fence, the fact that it hurt the Rays and benefited the Sox) is circumstantial and could happen to any team.

Greg: on the optics. In football and basketball the team on offence puts the ball into play. In baseball the team on defence puts the ball into play. That’s why it’s the beautiful game.

I really have a problem with people talking about changing this rule already. I think it’s fine the way it is, but regardless it seems as though everyone is just so quick to jumping to conclusions. So many of these rules they had were just fine for a hundred years, then 1 strange play happens and suddenly they have to make big changes to what already is a good game.

@Danny-xd4og

2 жыл бұрын

People just don’t wanna see the Red Sox win, if it was the other way around I guarantee nobody would be saying anything

@tylermccann848

2 жыл бұрын

The umps got the call right based on how the rule is written, but the rule isn't fair because it rewards Renfroe for making a misplay. The rule should be treated as a ball thrown out of play, or it should be up to ump discretion in which case the batter would be on second and the runner on second would have scored.

@99bimmer

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, honestly, how often does that particular situation even happen. Maybe once a year. And out of those situations, what's the percentage of it affecting the overall outcome of the game. They don't all happen in extra innings

@tylermccann848

2 жыл бұрын

@@99bimmer I think you brought up a couple key points, that it doesn't happen often and that when it does it's not likely something that effects the outcome of game, such as a game in extras, or a playoff game for that matter. But because it did happen, and it's getting a lot of attention, that's going to be the driving force. In my opinion though, it should be though. It's not a good rule.. take all the pro or anti Boston or big market team stuff out of the equation. The umps got the call right as the rule was written, but the rule needs to be revisited.

@99bimmer

2 жыл бұрын

@@tylermccann848 It should be open to interpretation as well. If Renfroe would have smartly swatted it over, then it would be a huge issue. But all it did was jut him. That particular play only happens at Fenway, and only in RF.

The funny thing is, if the ball deflected off of Hunter and went over the fence before it touched any of the ground, he would’ve been “penalized” as they say because that would be a homerun. I think this rule is fine the way it is, but regardless it just shows how strange things happen in the game of baseball.

@mrmacross

2 жыл бұрын

I'm fine with always punishing the defense for not making the play. The weird thing about this play is that if Renfroe fielded it cleanly, the runner from first scores. If Renfroe didn't field it cleanly but managed to deaden the ball as it hit his body, the run scores. But Renfroe made essentially the worst possible play he could and that gave him the best possible outcome in those circumstances. Completely bizarre.

@ihatechaucer4413

2 жыл бұрын

It is crazy, but like I said strange things happen in the game of baseball. It’s part of the reason why I love this sport.

Standard bounce-out ground rule doubles are one thing. But intentional or not, if a fielder touches the ball and it goes out, the offense should be rewarded with an extra base. Diaz goes home, KK goes to 3rd.

@-C.S.R

2 жыл бұрын

I’m completely neutral and that’s how I would’ve scored it as well! But major league baseball is corrupt and knows that they will make millions of more dollars having the Red Sox advance! It’s all about advertising and ratings! If you give MLB the chance to change an outcome of a game for their benefit, game over! I know that they know that it’s not 100% guaranteed but just giving the Red Sox more of an advantage by taking that run off the board gives them a better chance to win!

@zaccarlson6953

2 жыл бұрын

@@-C.S.R that sounds neutral?

@jayjya0613

2 жыл бұрын

@@-C.S.R It's been a rule for 90 years... not just made up this post-season to benefit the Redsox... 😒🤪

@thoroakenshield7283

2 жыл бұрын

@@-C.S.R And I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll, Paul McCartney has been dead since 1966, and Joe Biden got 80 million votes. Tell me, Mr. Conspiracy Theory, how did the "Powers That Be" also conspire to help the Sox win game 2? That sure is some planning to have 80 players, 2 managers, 10 coaches, 2 General Managers, 2 owners, the Grounds Crew, and vendors all in on it. Did they use magnets to help the hitter hit it on to magnets under the turf then to bounce to magnets in Renfroe's pocket, then bounce to magnets in the bullpen? Or is it all a computer simulation and the game wasn't really played? Please explain it. I await your explanation on pins and needles.

@thoroakenshield7283

2 жыл бұрын

@@jayjya0613 No, please let him wallow in his delusion.

Great explanation and breakdown. I do think it should be noted: 1) if there's less than 2 outs, this ground rule double would probably have given the rays an extra base as Kiermaier may have been tagging, or at least playing half way. 2) if the ball hits off a player and goes over the fence before touching the ground it's a homerun. So there are definitely cases where unintentional touches hurt the defense... I think the rule should stand as is, and we just have to take these pretty rare oddities as a part of the game. A rule change here would probably make the game less fair, or put more into the hands of umpire judgement which makes no one happy.

I feel like if the rule was changed from if a fair ball enters foul territory its a ground rule double to the runners get whatever base they are approaching plus 1 (with the exception that if two runners are approaching the same base the second runner is only award that base) there weren't be any issues.

Harold is on point here, I'm a Red Sox fan so i see why it's not as frustrating for me. The way Harold explains the uniqueness of Fenway is how everyone should look at it. At most other ball parks that bounces off a 10 foot wall and isn't a discussion, it's what makes baseball special

@dukedematteo1995

Жыл бұрын

Of course you don't care....you won the 2004 LCS bc of it.😅

literally the same thing happened in the rays favor on july 26th 2019 against toronto

I love Pence saying that Renfroe should have got out of the way of the freaking ball. Like, he should've known the ball was going to carom off his body and over the fence. Renfroe misplayed it by thinking he had a chance at the catch and then ending up in no-man's land where he couldn't properly field it. Just accept the rule and move on. We caught a break. Wouldn't have had to if Cora had either left Nate in for one more or brought out Whitlock in the 8th. And honestly how often does this happen in the regular season? Probably not enough to warrant an obnoxious rule change. Like, if a ball hit down the line explodes on a fielder and he boots it into the stands that's not materially different from what happened and yet no one would bat an eye.

Yankees fans are more pissed than Rays fans about this. hahahaha

@Frankieefootballmundial

2 жыл бұрын

Yes if the ball drop on the bottom edge of the wall and reinfoe didn’t had any time to throw it then the rays will score

@dukedematteo1995

Жыл бұрын

It still haunts me. Fuckin 2 foot perpendicular fence from pre WW1. Uhhhh!

Well at Wrigley into the ivy would be a ground rule double, this play is an automatic double that can happen at any park

What about the ball that bounced on Canseco's head and went over the fence for a home run?

@michaelreyes7382

2 жыл бұрын

That didn’t touch the ground before it went over the fence. So it counts as a HR. Which they should have mentioned is also a possibility since it benefits the batter and not the defensive player like the ruling they’re discussing.

It should be up to the umpire how many bases are awarded.

Not a "ground rule double". It is a 2 base award.

@marshallthompson1241

2 жыл бұрын

Got that right

In 2019 the Rays were on defense when a ball was hit to the left field and bounced off a Tommy Pham and into the stands. The runner who scored was moved back to 3rd base after Cash had talked to the ump. They knew about the rule.

@GaryPewteaux63

2 жыл бұрын

What game was this? I need to know so I can argue this point with you

@philiplp9741

2 жыл бұрын

@@GaryPewteaux63 july 26th, 2019 tb@tor

@GaryPewteaux63

2 жыл бұрын

@@philiplp9741 thank you!

Great breakdown of the Ground rule double my boy is a Rays fan he was like ohh we should've scored

@99bimmer

2 жыл бұрын

Even if TB scores a run on the play, they'd still lose cuz Boston got 2 runs on the Walkofg

@EMan-hr5vf

2 жыл бұрын

It changes the momentum of the game though and puts a lot more pressure on the bats of the Red Sox in the bottom of the 13th. So it could of lead to a different outcome.

@nanic5411

2 жыл бұрын

@@EMan-hr5vf could’ve should’ve but didn’t… it’s time to move on to game 4

@EMan-hr5vf

2 жыл бұрын

@@nanic5411 I ain’t complaining I’m a Red Sox fan.

@nanic5411

2 жыл бұрын

@@EMan-hr5vf I know it’s just time to move on and let the haters continue to cry and hate

Was it frustrating to Rays fans when they got the exact same call against Toronto in the playoffs 2 years ago?

The ground rule double in Fenway is why the Sox won the 2004 LCS.

Sports journalist bellyaching aside, the rule does not need to be changed. Ground rule doubles are inherently unfair. Sure, it bounced off of a defender. Not a big deal because nobody (not even the Rays manager) thought it was intentional. Then ESPN guys complain that the outcome benefits the team whose player misplayed the ball, as if this is unheard of in other sports. I guess they never saw a football team where a ball is fumbled, bounces out of bounds, to the benefit of the team that fumbled. Is that fair? On a rare bizarre play, I'll take consistent rules over the elusive concept of "fairness".

Isn’t that the same thing that happened to Jose canseco?? He was trying to catch a ball hit deep to right field but as he made his attempt to catch it, the ball hit him on the top of his hat then went over the fence for a homerun. I’d like to know what the ruling is for that play.

@thomasburris5936

2 жыл бұрын

the difference is that this ball hit the ground first.

@jonathanwilliams5235

2 жыл бұрын

@@thomasburris5936 gotchya

@rickhaavisto9023

11 ай бұрын

If the ball had bounced off the fence before hitting Canseco’s head, it would have been the exact same play as they are discussing in the video

@jonathanwilliams5235

11 ай бұрын

@@rickhaavisto9023 if the ball hit the fence then hits the fielder it would be a ground rule dbl

@rickhaavisto9023

11 ай бұрын

@@jonathanwilliams5235 Correct

Either way doesn’t matter ? Dude after him struck out and then we got a two run homer so would outcome be different?

@jeffjacobs6104

2 жыл бұрын

Most likely McHugh is pitching and not patiño and there's a good chance he never hits a homerun

Media bellyaching about this to try and get views. Fluke incident because of the uniqueness of Fenway. It'll pop up every now and again with the Rays having those 10' sections of 4' wall in each field, but not enough to change the rule for it. Play on.

If it's in the rulebook, it's a rule. A bad rule. But it's a rule. (Should be changed to reflect a fielder error imo, or at the very least scored as a normal double with a deadball)

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

Nothing whatsoever bad about the rule.. What would be bad is if they changed it to reflect what you're saying.

@aidanknight

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackhammer0101 If the ball hits a fielder and bounces over the wall without hitting the ground, it's a homerun.

@aidanknight

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackhammer0101 The "Jose Canseco"

To me the problem here is that the ball was clearly going to remain in play since it was bounding back toward the infield before hitting Renfroe and bouncing over the fence, propelled by HIS momentum. Unintentional contact or not, the ball stays in play if not for contact with Renfroe. If it hits him and goes back to the wall, he can retrieve it quickly and hold KK to a double, but the run scores easily. If it hits him and gets by him a little bit, the runner scores and maybe they can get KK at third if he tries to stretch it to a triple. If it doesn't hit him or deflects away a decent distance the runner scores and KK has an easy triple and maybe tries for an inside-the-parker. MLB needs to consider momentum in cases like this. Was it the momentum of the BATTED ball that caused it to go out of play, or was the momentum of the ball changed by the deflection in such a way as to cause it to go out of play? Yes, that would be a judgment call. But that's why we have umpires and replay. In football if a defender intercepts a pass at the 2-yard line, crosses the goal line, and is tackled in the end zone it could be either a safety or a touchback based on whether the officials decide it was a result of the defender's momentum before the catch or the defender's actions after the catch. Why can't baseball have a similar rule?

@russell10

2 жыл бұрын

Great comment. Agree with all of it

@murpj5

2 жыл бұрын

did you have the same issue with the catwalk Homer? the reward for the play is a 2 bases. that's a positive. it's 2 bases untested. the problem people are having is the Ray's left 2 men stranded the very next bat. had they scored, no one would care. each park had a few odd rules, but this is fenway. that rule predates the Ray's existence. Also, totally not understanding the Red Sox hate. like they weren't the MLBs whipping boy for 80 f*cking years.

@bwill6323

2 жыл бұрын

@@murpj5 are you dumb? The catwalk homer was a homer because their was no way possible that it would have stayed in play if it wasnt for the catwalk, hunter literally hit it out of play based on his own mistake. Thats why the rule is bad in a certain way

If you change the rules every time the 1/1,000 moment happens, you slowly get rid of the game.

Intentional fumbles in football can't be advanced. Good rule.

4:38 What I got out of this is that Harold doesn't like the Red Sox. :-)

So, what if a fly ball bounces off the head of a fielder and goes over the fence. Should that be a ground rule double? The ball didn't go over the fence unassisted. Ask Canseco!

doesn't mater its coming back for game 5 now

I get being annoyed at what happened if you’re a Rays fan, but getting pissed at the rule itself makes no sense, it’s pretty much the only thing that’s fair to do in that situation. The ball was dead while he was rounding 2nd, so to give him three bases would be nonsensical. It was the right call.

@marshallthompson1241

2 жыл бұрын

Fine, but is it two bases from where the runner is when the ball is pitched, or two bases from where the runner is when it goes out of play, or two bases from where the runner is when it deflects off the outfielder.

@RadioNul

2 жыл бұрын

The fair thing to do would be to say tough shit outfielder, you knocked the ball over the wall. Like accidentally tipping the puck into your own goal in ice hockey.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

@@marshallthompson1241 It is two bases from the time of the pitch.

The rules is wrong, it should be a 3b no a 2b, bacause as Hunter said is an outfielder mistake (error) not intentional but is an error.

Throw your right hip out and u shake it all about, do the hokey pokey...that's what it's all about!! -Reds fan

MLB Network. I am new to baseball and confused still. Is the defender considered part of the grounds? If the ball hits the wall and deflects off of the defender, then the defender is considered part of the grounds? Therefore, it is a ground-rule double? The defender engaged with the ball and inadvertently pushed it out of play. It seems to make more sense to grant the runners an additional base or two bases due to the misplay of the defender. Why should the offensive team lose bases because the defender put the ball out of the playing field?

@xandermcconnell5503

2 жыл бұрын

They determined that Renfroe never actually "gained possession" of the ball, so when he made contact with the ball, it was as if he was part of the ground or wall. It's a weird rule but that's technically the correct ruling

@travisteachingtoolbox779

2 жыл бұрын

@@xandermcconnell5503 I would say it's illogical. Why should the intentions of the fielder matter for the opposing team. The Jays players are supposed to say, "it's ok, he didn't gain possession." lol I mean, doesn't it make more sense to punish the team of the defender that did not make the play than punish the Jays who did nothing wrong? I'm not a huge baseball fan, but it just seems so illogical. Thank you for the video explanation and help in understanding the rule. I don't get it, but I appreciate your help.

Ground rule double takes away runs more often than it allows for runs that otherwise wouldn’t have occurred. Make it 3 bases instead of two to solve all problems. It doesn’t penalize a team for a run that otherwise should have been scored 9/10 times, and you don’t bring umpire judgment into the equation

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

There is no umpire judgment. The rule is clear, two bases from the time of the pitch.

I think they should change it to be up to the judgement of the umpires. If this ends up killing the Rays season that’ll be wild.

@rouskeycarpel1436

2 жыл бұрын

No the rule is the rule and for good reason.

@randommax2270

2 жыл бұрын

@@rouskeycarpel1436 what’s the good reason?

@rouskeycarpel1436

2 жыл бұрын

@@randommax2270 If a ball deflects unintentionally off of a fielder(as it did in Renfroe’s case) that team shouldn’t be punished because of an unintentional deflection.

@MYFAVORITES5

2 жыл бұрын

You're punished for an unintentional deflection directly off you and out of play for a home run though. There's already precedence for a player on the defense being punished for the ball hitting off them when it would have hit the ground / stay in play if they didn't get in the way of it.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

@@MYFAVORITES5 completely different scenarios.. In this case it hit the wall first.. Same as the ground, then hit the player..if you can't see how that changes things than I don't knkw what to tell you..

The funny thing is these Red Sox haters making a big deal over a rule that’s been in place for a long time…. As the movie Frozen sang… LET IT GO……LET IT GO

Maybe add a ground rule triple if the ball's momentum is in-field before deflection over the fence. So if it's flying out and bounces over or bounces off a glove/head/shoulder it's a ground rule double; but if it bounces back off the wall infield then bounces off a player and goes out it's a triple (likely would have been triple if it bounces off wall and fielder misses the rebound anyway).

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

Or maybe just keep the rule as it's always been.. And not change something that's worked because it hurt the feelings of one teams fan base in one game..

@steeltoffees

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackhammer0101 I don't give a shit about the Red Sox or the Rays. But the result of that just doesn't feel right. It feels like the Red Sox should have come out on the losing end of that particular play, but that's not how the rules treat it.

The Rays didn’t score anyone else and the Sox scored 2 in the bottom of the inning, so in hindsight that run is inconsequential

@acruzro95

2 жыл бұрын

You think being down in that inning wouldnt have change the approachby hitter or pitcher. Patiño probably will pitch today too so he knew he had to throw fastballs all over the plate and challenge the hitter rather than trying to have long at bats. If you are up by one though your approach as hitter and pitcher would have changed in the 13th

@reeseseater12

2 жыл бұрын

@@acruzro95 is he really known for a vastly different approach? I mean you’re facing the bottom of the order, you go after them. I think he just missed his spot and left one over the plate. If he is expected to pitch today too then why would that logic change? He would still want to keep pitch count low wouldn’t he?

@mrmacross

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't say incosequential, but I think the Red Sox earned the victory nonetheless.

@acruzro95

2 жыл бұрын

@@reeseseater12 no, because had he had a lead he would be more focused on forcing the hitter to chase and do long at bats to win game 3. When he didnt get the lead he would have not only pitch inning 13th but also inning 14th. He finished the night with like 18 pitches. Had he kept the zero on the 13th inning he probably would have finish the night with like 50 or 60 pitches in inning 14th and be gased out for game 4

@acruzro95

2 жыл бұрын

@@mrmacross im a rays fan the red sox have earned their two wins. Theyve been the better team in the past two games. We have not been able to keep them quiet and right after we get the lead the red sox come back. To win, we gotta keep a lead for more than 3 innings to start putting pressure to their lineup. But we scored 2 in the first and by the 3rd or 4th inning the red sox had already taken the lead. Is just annoying to lose a game to ricochet ball. Had the ball stayed in the fieldthat could have even been an inside the park HR.

It's no different than if an outfielder who's making a solid attempt at a fly ball, accidentally deflects off his glove and goes in to the stands, it's a Ground Rule Double.

@brianhemorrhage

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure that becomes a home run if it hasn’t touched wall before the glove

kind find too many passionate baseball talks nowadays everything either basketball or football

Ppl are so knee jerk about this, sometimes crazy things happen in baseball. The last thing we need is to put the umpires in a position to make a judgement regarding a runner's exact position when a ball is unplayable. This was a ground rule double that happens time and time again in baseball. If the rays wanted that run to count so bad they should have gotten him in scoring position.

@adrnaline

2 жыл бұрын

late and a biased rays fan, but i think there should be zones and if a runner is in that zone by the time the ball goes over the wall, the runner either reaches 3rd or scores depending on where they are

@dukedematteo1995

Жыл бұрын

Why not? We have replay now, if dude is rounding 3rd when it bounces over and there's no conceivable way he can be thrown out at home from 380 ft away then why not?

@rickhaavisto9023

11 ай бұрын

@@dukedematteo1995What if the runner gets injured? Or falls?

@dukedematteo1995

11 ай бұрын

@rickhaavisto9023 Well, that rarely happens. You shouldn't make rules based on low odd extremes like that. See where the runner was when it bounced over....if he's past a certain point (to be decided), then he should get the 3 bases, if not, then just two. The Yankees lost the 2004 LCS bc of this dumb rule...that's how big an effect it can have on game.

@rickhaavisto9023

11 ай бұрын

@@dukedematteo1995 No, the Yankees lost because they failed to outscore their opponent. The fact that a play that invoked this rule happened isn’t the reason the Yankees lost.

Rays’ fairytale season ends tomorrow, this was crushing to them

ice hockey defender accidentally deflects puck into own net.... tough shit

I think the NFL has a good rule on kickoffs and punts that can be applied to these types of batted balls in MLB. In the NFL, if a kickoff or punt gets deflected off the returner and goes out the back of the end zone, it's a touchback. The ruling there is that the impetus for the ball's path was the kick itself. However, if the returner creates new momentum to knock the ball out of his end zone, it's ruled a safety. For instance, say a kick returner is standing on his 1-yard line. The kickoff bounces out of his hands and goes out of bounds in his end zone. It's a touchback. On the other hand, if on a punt the returner runs backward to field it but drops it at his 10-yard line, and then accidentally kicks and it goes into his end zone, the impetus for the ball to go into the end zone is no longer the punt itself but the returner's batting it backward (accidentally), so he has to advance the ball out of the end zone or else it's going to be a safety. I think the MLB ruling was meant for players who tried to field a bounding ball but could only barely graze it and it continued out of play. But if you significantly change the momentum or direction of the ball, you have to rule it as though an error occurred.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

Using a rule in football.. To try to explain why there should be a change in a rule in baseball.. Is the epitome of idiocy..

@mrmacross

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackhammer0101 Sigh... I'm not saying football is the reason to change the baseball rule. I'm saying football has an analogous situation to explain what to do when players accidentally deflect or bat (unfortunate use of the term since "bat" means so many things in baseball) balls in play. Or rather, other sports have rules in place so baseball can make one, too. I'm just saying football makes a distinction between when a ball glances off a player and continues its path, versus when a ball bounces off a player and completely changes direction. Baseball can (and should) do it, too. I own two Bizarro t-shirts, so you're OK with me.

This is highway robbery, they are supposed to take into consideration whether the runner would have scored or not.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

No, they are not to take that into consideration. It is always a two base award from the time of the pitch. Stop making up rules that don't exist.

Top Reasons the Tampa Bay Rays continue to struggle and come up short winning the World Series: 🧢⚾ 1) They have good and very good pitchers but not Aces like a Randy Johnson of old back in the day, or John Smoltz or Tom Glavine of Braves back in the day. They need at least one Ace pitcher (not for regular season) for the playoffs and the remaining 21 games rotation at the end of each season. They have been that good since 2008. 🧐🤨🤔⚾ 2) They are a real "Moneyball" baseball team...great at scouting talent, developing talent, and building a very good regular season team in a very competitive AL East. But they tend to trade away pieces which takes away from their hitting chemistry in the postseason. They could learn from the 1996-2003 Yankees. 🏟️⚾🚁🚁🧢⚾ 3) The Rays need to move from Tropicana Field to Ybor City, the baseball heart and soul of Tampa Bay. This is where people truly will come to games and fill out arenas unlike the fans in St. Pete that show up in mass only during the postseason. This Cuban- American community is where The Tampa Bay Buccaneers fans of all races celebrated winning the Super Bowl. 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫😬😬 4) The Rays fans don't know how to cheer rallies like other fans away because they don't come to games regularly in St. Petersburg which goes back to my above point. ⚖️👨‍⚖️⚾🧐🤨🙄👉 5) The Rays we're robbed twice in Game 3 costing them a championship. A retagged stolen second base was ruled out when it should have been safe after the long review. With Randy Arozerena up, it likely would have brought in 1-2 runs with 2 outs still remaining and another hitter. Instead, it saved Boston. Then in the same game but in Extra Inning a triple play which would have brought another 1 run in and left 1 on third being Randy Arozerena would have all brought the Overtime Score (if needed) to 2-4 insurance runs above the score putting pressure on Boston to do more than hit a homer. ⚾ Boston Red Sox know the umpires and refs saved them but will lose badly to Houston Astros.

they need to increase the height of the wall. Just like fence behind the bullpen, they should add that to the front of the bullpen. Also, what happens if a pitcher that is warming up, or the catcher throws the ball away, and ends up on the field during a play? Also, why don't places like Tampa and Oakland put up a wall to separate the bullpen and foul territory?

Even if they let him score on the play from first, Boston still wins in the bottom of the inning with a two run jack. GG.

The umpire should have the discretion to award the runners the base they thought he would have got to.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

No they shouldn't.. The can of worms "umpire discretion" opens up would only create more problems.. The rule is the rule for a reason.. And they have discretion if they decide it was intentional.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

@@jackhammer0101 If it was intentionally deflected out of play, the bases awarded would be from the time of the deflection instead of the time of the pitch.

Rule will need to be addressed and likely changed this off-season. The umps got the call right based on how the rule is written, but that's not a fair outcome to the team.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

No, it wasn't addressed or changed because the rule is fine. It won't be changed in the future either.

@tylermccann848

Жыл бұрын

@@alanhess9306 interesting to be revisiting this a year later... In retrospect I'm still a little surprised the rule wasn't updated because like I said, it was called right on the field but wasn't fair to Tampa at that moment. In my opinion, the reasons they didn't change it were for one, MLB is already making enough rule chances as it is and this was an extremely rare circumstance that only was made a rule to accommodate a couple ballparks, it wasn't the World Series so not enough eyes were on it, and lastly it benefited the big market Red Sox, which is ultimately better for baseball's bottom line. I hope baseball doesn't have to revisit this though.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

@@tylermccann848 That is total nonsense. The rule applies equally to both teams. Sometimes it will benefit your team and sometimes it won't. The rule has been the same for decades and it will not be changed because a bunch of casual fans think it is unfair, which it isn't.

@tylermccann848

Жыл бұрын

@@alanhess9306 Oh, don't get me wrong the rule applies to both teams equally if it were to happen to both teams. But it almost never happens, but when it did it just so happened to benefit one team over the other. In this case, Boston over Tampa Bay. That's a tough situation because the rule was in place only because of Chicago, so it wasn't because Fenway has short walls. It was because of the Ivy, which is a different situation. The ball is dead, as opposed to being out of play. Like I said, it was called correctly based on how the rule was written, but I think it would have been fair to treat it as a ball being fielded and "thrown" out of play. You're right, at this point they won't look at that rule again, unless it caused a stir in the world series, or maybe the CS.

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

@@tylermccann848 I don't know what you mean when you write "The ball is dead, as opposed to being out of play." because they are the same. When a ball goes out of play, into the ivy, or lodged, it is always dead. Anyway you are right, it is a tough situation. It rarely happens but a call like this over a 162 game season is somewhat insignificant. Nobody believes one play makes or breaks your ability to make the playoffs. How many games were lost because the team made fielding errors? The rule is fine and all teams need to understand and deal with it. If it was a problem, the teams would lobby for a change.

The rule applies equally to both teams, It wasn't written to favor the Red Sox. A bunch of crybabies can't handle the truth.

It’s the rule but the rule should be changed

i dont see what the problem is.... the argument is he should have been award a triple or...? what's the argument here lol

@jjrunning6125

2 жыл бұрын

Kevin started at second and scored no question but the ball hit the wall then hit the defender and went out so they ruled it a ground rule double so runners were on 2nd and 3rd base instead of 2nd and a run scores. That run never scored and could have changed the game

@marshallthompson1241

2 жыл бұрын

The discussion should be "the two base award" is from 1.) where the runner is when the ball is pitched. 2,) where the runner is when the ball deflects of the fielder, or 3.) where the runner is when the ball leaves the field.

@bc1173

2 жыл бұрын

@@marshallthompson1241 or just leave in the rule that's been in the league for 90 years.

Just make it ground rule triple. If you cannot prevent ball going over the fence you should not be rewarded but penalized.

@philiplp9741

2 жыл бұрын

As a red sox fan, that seems like a better idea.

shouldnt be a ground rule double, it should be a normal double with a deadball and all base runners advance to the next base. because Margot was around 3rd already he should have scored

@zaccarlson6953

2 жыл бұрын

So MLB doesn't understand the rules, or you don't?

@harrishyles4480

2 жыл бұрын

Did u not just watch the video??

This is outrageous (Super sarcastic tone)!! If Yandy had scored then the Rays would’ve taken a one run lead when the next batter struck out. Then when Vazquez hits a Two (count them, it’s two) run homer ...... then, ummm ..... well I guess the Sox walk it off either way. My mistake, with all media hype i mistakingly thought that call changed the outcome of the game. Don’t I feel silly.

There's no way in hell the ball that bounces of and outfield wall should be an automatic double. That's a mistake by the right fielder not playing the ball of the wall. If that's the rule then it has to be changed. That's my opinion. Why are we awarding the the team that made the mistake is ridiculous.

@xandermcconnell5503

2 жыл бұрын

I see your point. But what if the ball was drilled at 120+ mph and the batter is slow, so he stops at first. Then if that exact play happens, it actually benefits the batter cause you gain a base when you knew you were too slow to get a double. It all just depends on the circumstances

@Kingflowh

2 жыл бұрын

@@xandermcconnell5503 the rule supposed to be that in a play like that the empire should have the judgement. Watch the replay, see where the runners are at and can confidently assume where that runner would end up. They do it when someone throws the ball away.

@jayjya0613

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kingflowh You just said it. The judgement portion applies only when it's intentional. When unintentional, then it's from where the runner(s) started.

@acruzro95

2 жыл бұрын

@@xandermcconnell5503 if the ball was drilled at 120mph and the players is super slow it would either be a HR or a long single. The position of the batter was irrelevant in this play. The problem here was the position of the runner. Is not like Yandi Diaz is a fast player. Yandi Diaz has below average to average speed and he was gonna score. Kiermaier speed is irrelevant in this argument. While yandi diaz was walking to home plate the ball went out of play. Even david ortiz would have scored from that play.

@wsekiegrant9375

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kingflowh stop, you know if this happened to your team you would be saying the same things as Red Sox fans

any runner on base during a ground rule double should automatically be sent home

@feezy243

2 жыл бұрын

So Albert Pujols is at first and the next batter hits a ground rule double, you’re saying Pujols should automatically score? Lmfao!!

@adrnaline

2 жыл бұрын

@@feezy243 i see your point, but diaz was around third when the ball was hit over the fence. the rule needs revamping

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

@@adrnaline There is nothing wrong with the rule.

It shouldn’t be the hitter that gets punished! If you’re an outfielder and it goes off-the-wall then hits the ground and then unintentionally hits off you then goes back into the crowd, then that should be outfielders fault! But to ding the hitter when he kept the ball fair but the outfielder caused it to go over the wall unintentionally or not should matter! But FYI major-league baseball will make double the amount of money if the Red Sox advance instead of Tampa Bay! Maybe even triple or more?!? It’s all about advertising rights and ratings and 100% that crossed their mind when making a final decision in New York! Because the explanation I got that’s in the rulebook still has holes in it that could still lead them to make a different judgment on what happened. And when we all saw them literally let the Houston Asterisks get away with cheating to win a World Series, we know MLB will do anything corrupt and dirty handed when it benefits them! FACT!

Dude is batting .091… RELAX Rays are going home.

Odd.

That is not crazy. /

If this is going to be the rule then outfielders should just start throwing balls hit deep into the outfield that they can't catch over the fence instead of in. Especially if there is a runner going on first. There will never be another triple again.

@davebradley6449

2 жыл бұрын

its only a ground rule double if its unintentional. if you throw the ball into the stands that’s intentional.

@DanielJamesEgan

2 жыл бұрын

@@davebradley6449 Obviously they would have to be sneaky about it, make it look like an accident.

@xandermcconnell5503

2 жыл бұрын

@@DanielJamesEgan imagine if the fielder didn't get the ball high or far enough though lol. that would be hilarious if he tried to throw it out but still missed

@DanielJamesEgan

2 жыл бұрын

@@xandermcconnell5503 HAHA yeah, then having to chase down your own dumb throw and see if you can keep it from being a little-league home run.

If manfreds gonna keep change rules haphazardly he might as well change this one too, should be ruled the same as a fielder miss throwing a ball into the stands.

Goes against the integrity of the sport. The rules are in place to promote fairness; the rules do not determine fairness. There is no reason a baserunner in that situation should have to return bases he's clearly tagging if the ball was played under normal circumstances. Give KK two, sure, but Yandy scores every time. EVERY TIME. But for the time the outfielder makes an error/blunder? Its completely backward. Rays go up 5-4 and the last out of the top of the thirteenth plays out differently, let alone the bottom. Should Diaz score there, theres an infinitesimal chance that walkoff plays out the same way. Granted, maybe its a three run shot that time around, but Patiño's gonna pitch differently with the lead and all this becomes a huge "what if" because the MLB prioritized an obscure ruling over what made sense in respect to the actual, live game.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah screw the rules, let's change them because this time it didn't go in the favor of the team I like.. And or against the team I don't.. Or better yet, let's just make everyone the winner.. And just give everyone a trophy and a banner.

should be ground rule double plus an error to give him 3B

@thoroakenshield7283

2 жыл бұрын

It's not an error.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

No it should be a ground rule double, like the RULE SAYS..

Cry more Tampa 😂

One of the luckiest breaks I've ever seen. Yandy Diaz scores and McHugh is most likely pitching instead of patino. Not to mention Margot was safe at second, randy should have been at 3rd in the 8th but got tangled up with schwarber. I saw bad calls all game.

@philiplp9741

2 жыл бұрын

Margot was out sorry, and Schwarber wasn’t even watching Arozarena when he bumped into him, and I don’t think he would’ve made it to third anyway.

@jeffjacobs6104

2 жыл бұрын

@@philiplp9741 schwarber walked straight into randy and Margot got his foot back on the bag before being tagged. I could see an argument about the schwarber incident but Margot was 100% safe

@philiplp9741

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeffjacobs6104 idk maybe you’re right about margot, we didn’t get a good angle.

Even if they give the Rays the run here, don't they still just lose 6-5? Next batter struck out to end the inning and the Sox scored the walk-off homer in the bottom of the same. Game Over, same result.

It never hit ground but still tyink its a gound rule double

@djfielding18

2 жыл бұрын

it literally hits dirt before renfroe. wtf are you talking about?

@roadweary5252

2 жыл бұрын

It clearly hit the ground

MLB is FIXED! They didn't call interference on Schwarber and didn't call interference on Grandall in the HOU-CHI game either. MLB's finances were low last year so they will make up for it. Expect no less.

@jackhammer0101

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha and yet another soy boy with tears in his eyes.. Hahaha

@alanhess9306

Жыл бұрын

If yoou knew the rules you would know that Grandall did nothing illegal. Stop your crying.

936 views. I love baseball but man this Sport is dying.

@zaccarlson6953

2 жыл бұрын

It's midnight on a work night. Players are getting $350M contracts, how is the sport "dying?"

@eighteight4612

2 жыл бұрын

If Tom Brady or Lebron or Steph curry walk into a mall, the place would go crazy. Mookie, trout, gerrit Cole could all walk in after and No one would notice them. That’s how it’s dying