Imagine they said "save this for later" and then the combo doesn't work in the release build

@LaggyLuke

2 ай бұрын

I'm ready to bet my left nut that it will not work on launch

@bkaneshiro14

2 ай бұрын

Honestly, that would be the most Riot thing I could imagine

Whenever the topic of notation comes up, I still think of that one tweet of a uniclr player who used discord emotes of akatsuki moves for an akatsuki combo. Happy for him

@TimeSpaceWormsNow

2 ай бұрын

Chesto :)

@zanpakutoman4225

2 ай бұрын

I always think of that Madagascar video, where the penguins are looking at a Dragon Install combo and ask the chimps to read it. Then a bunch of Sol voice clips play over their sign language.

@longbeing

2 ай бұрын

Somehow that feels on brand for uni players

@ezelalia5739

2 ай бұрын

​@@zanpakutoman4225 its not a combo though. Order Sol's dragon install is a deadly rave

@bluemoontide

2 ай бұрын

that's my homie Tyria. love that dude

You're telling me Portstern Halfcircle Port Starboardstern Punch is a valid way to say "pretzel."

@axis8396

2 ай бұрын

The fact I got what you were going for around "Halfcircle Port" with like 2 seconds to translate means yeah it can work. I like doing 16243 since it's easier to type than 1632143 and generally it's understood that it's a pretzel since everyone just uses 360 because it's just clunky to use anything else not to mention the readability drops significantly

@hambor12

2 ай бұрын

You use Port to refer to "left"? Do you mean "Larboard"? (not to be confused with "starboard", which is right)

@longbeing

2 ай бұрын

Wait, is pretzel input a thing?

@zaneseibert

2 ай бұрын

​@@longbeing Geese Howard's old Raging Storm input and Hazama's Astral Finish.

@deadfr0g

2 ай бұрын

Captain, respectfully, this does not feel shipshape. I’m starting to get seasick and I need to… bow out.

Ask any brazillian fg player and they're gonna say "baixo-frente" instead of "diagonal para baixo e para frente". It's like saying "down-forward" instead of "diagonal pointing down and forward". I have no idea why the portuguese version decided to be wordy.

@NoirLouisStream

2 ай бұрын

Machine translation I suppose

@weverton2giro

2 ай бұрын

A lot of people interpret "baixo-frente" as a hadouken motion i would say "diagonal pra baixo frente" to explain the direction

@DeepCDiva

2 ай бұрын

I think they were aiming at a somewhat newer audience, they even replied that not everybody knows numpad notations. So by writing DIAGONAL PRA BAIXO E PRA FRENTE they're making sure no one is tapping BAIXO then FRENTE. Its not really elegant and im not sure id focus on beginner friendly language with such a combo but i think its what they were going for.

@whizthesugoi

2 ай бұрын

I never thought of saying it that way You may have saved my journey of compelling my friends to play with me

@claudemirp2772

2 ай бұрын

I always though " baixo frente " was a Fireball input. ( sou brasileiro mesmo)

Take 3 paces longitudinally, a spirited punch, prematurely complete your attack to begin a rising matador, 4 paces to stern, (enter a contract with the mercantile guild)

The real question is, does 2S2 sound worse than 2XKO

@crimsonpotemkin

2 ай бұрын

Nothing sounds worse than 2XKO

@No1Porkchop

2 ай бұрын

I've been calling it "Double-Kill".

@kamiya4700

2 ай бұрын

@@No1PorkchopThat sounds so much better ngl

@GerBessa

2 ай бұрын

​@@No1Porkchop Just call it DK, or Donkey Kong.

@No1Porkchop

2 ай бұрын

@@GerBessa "FT5 me in Donkey Kong I will wash you."

Numpad's biggest advantage is that it's a literal representation of the inputs. It's not intuitive to read a half-circle back as 63214, but when you need crazy stupid inputs it's easier to use 819738 rather than something like "star motion" when you're talking about that one Arcana Heart character's wack-ass pentagram super.

@GlowingOrangeOoze

2 ай бұрын

I love having a notation that's clear and concise about diagonals. I always have to get real slow and specific telling newbies a DP is "forward, down, down-forward" and make sure they don't hear "forward, down, down, forward" or whatever other combination of commas and hyphens is possible.

@bwnnn

2 ай бұрын

And in some contexts, you can just omit the diagonals when it's understood that you're talking about half circles (Goldlewis player here). 684 behemoth, etc. I think this is mostly used as verbal shorthand, but I've seen people type the abridged inputs too.

@leiothrix6845

2 ай бұрын

@@GlowingOrangeOozeiirc Brian f was coaching boxbox and told him to do forward, down, down-forward for a shoryuken input and he interpreted that as forward, down, down, forward

@intellectic9155

2 ай бұрын

If you use NUMPAD notations you're probably also not allowed within 100ft of a school.

@Storse

2 ай бұрын

@@intellectic9155 me when i call people pedophiles for... using a language agnostic fighting game notation? are we just xenophobic or something or what.

Y'know this tweet feels like it would be at the begining of a Core-A Gaming video

@looneymar9153

2 ай бұрын

One of those is due now

@grantm.5975

2 ай бұрын

@@looneymar9153 doesn't he work for blackpink now as their cameraman?

@will__mem9rno

2 ай бұрын

actually? when did that happen? :O

@grantm.5975

2 ай бұрын

@@will__mem9rno yeah he has a freelance videography company and has worked for a ton of people in Korea iirc

@undeniablySomeGuy

2 ай бұрын

fucking love core a gaming

Save this for later: smash your head to the controller > throw the controller in the air > roll on the floor > handshake opponent > throw opponents controller This is optimal max damage

@Wesmoen

2 ай бұрын

To the opponent, your controller or yourself?

@shmooters5599

2 ай бұрын

@@Wesmoenyes

@13Kr4zYAzN13

2 ай бұрын

This that RDCWorld combo(?) 🤔

Pat's reasoning here makes sense, but for me it just reinforces the fact that I was never a fan of "S1" and "S2" in the first place. It's clunky and it doesn't create enough of a sense of identity and separation between the moves. I haven't had a chance to play the game yet, but in DNF Duel, which uses a similar control scheme, I had some initial trouble committing everything to muscle memory, and that game at least has a distinction between Skills (S) and MP Skills (M). Obviously 2XKO doesn't use mana, but even if Riot can't come up with some way to intuitively group them, it should at least be an easy enough fix to change the names to something that doesn't involve numbers.

@kholdkhaos64ray11

2 ай бұрын

They probably could have used "SP" or "Unique" for a button name but that's just me armchair-ing. Idk if it actually links up to anything in LoL

@christophobia6415

2 ай бұрын

Riot should just start notating S1 and S2 as Q and W. It'd fit right at home for the League players!

@beegyoshi1685

2 ай бұрын

@@christophobia6415 or since there are no buttons for p and s primary and secondary would be pretty good as well

@christophobia6415

2 ай бұрын

@@beegyoshi1685 I think the most sensible notation for specials would be A and B, since the game already uses LMH for normals. Other people have suggested using X and Y, which definitely sounds more special-like, so take your pick.

@Jal_Ei

2 ай бұрын

I personally think S (special) and SA (special alternate) would be good alternatives to using numbers

I use the Megaman 3 boss select notation. Why would I use 623P when I can SIMPLY say top-magnet-shadow P

@kevingriffith6011

2 ай бұрын

Everybody else is wrong, clearly the only way to play is using clock-face notation. Now excuse me while I press 67:309K and tatsu away into the sunset.

It allows for universal combo notations that break down the language barrier. There's a korean FG channel that shows FG combo's, and I would watch their DBFZ videos. The entire channel is in korean but the combo's use numpad notation so I, as a guy who doesn't speak or understand korean, I can see what the combo' are. That's the entire point.

@Shiratto

2 ай бұрын

What's the name of the channel?

@hockey1973

2 ай бұрын

@@Shiratto Man. . . I actually can't find it anymore. If I find it I'll update this comment. Basically it was a FG channel with combo's for multiple fighting games. Text was in Korean but with numpad notation I could see the combo's.

@javjuegos_8917

2 ай бұрын

@@hockey1973 kinda remember one for melty blood but i saw that on discord and dont remember if it was on japanese but point still stands

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it... 1632143+HP

@glacierwolf2155

2 ай бұрын

Ah, a pretzel. Counterpoint: 2362363+HP

@LadyMourne

2 ай бұрын

I don't speak your language and it upsets me! F * D DF 2

@bageltime8983

2 ай бұрын

​@glacierwolf2155 this could be like 100+ supers and it scares me

@Wesmoen

2 ай бұрын

​@@LadyMourneah yes, my favorite thing in fighting games. Multiplication! 👀

@NaoyaYami

2 ай бұрын

@@Wesmoen I prefer this over EWGF (I am not a Tekken player).

Kinda funny to have this discussion about notation, about a fighting game, called 2XKO.

@evilded2

2 ай бұрын

Down Cross Knock Out

@carlosaugusto9821

2 ай бұрын

The makers don't have a good sense of inputs notation just like they don't have a good sense of naming a game. The first name wasn't great but the new name is worse.

@Tabako-san

2 ай бұрын

​@@carlosaugusto9821In a big company, executives and marketing are naming games- or publishers. Even in an AA studio it is hard to have any creative control over anything that'll be displayed on a storefront as a game designer or director.

My pfp exists purely so people will understand me when I say 236H

@liu3chan

2 ай бұрын

Which side?

@rojakishibe7113

2 ай бұрын

​@@liu3chaninputs almost always assume starting from left-side

@javjuegos_8917

2 ай бұрын

@@RomDog-2648 wtf is a queing counter force hard

The thing with numpad is that ots bi-lingual. So of one of Sajams fans from another culture reads a combo.he posts, they can understand it without getting a translator involved. The riot fighter devs seem cool af, but as always, they're trying to reinvent the wheel cause they think they know best. This stance in the entire video game industry is honestly just exhausting at this point.

Last year, someone popped into the CvS2 discord and made a huge deal out of why the supercombo wiki doesn't use numpad. This got to the point where GunterJPN, a very strong japanese player and the guy that made the custom combo reference guide, went "man i cba dealing with these rabid kids after using the same notation for more than 20 years, im out, peace" and just left discord entirely. The war has been raging for a long time.

Numpad notation's most under appreciated value: By-passes language barriers. Jump and Saltar (jump in spanish) start with different letters.

The brazilian version being a f*cking college essay is hilarious The communities I frequent use anime or MvC notation, but the KOF oldheads talk like that tweet

Numpad is the best for writing, but in speech every method is about the same. It's cool that we have a universal language to describe inputs, but it's weird that in a community with so much history and specialized terminology, some people want to strip that all away and burn it forever. I think it's way more fun to fierce uppercut than to 623.hp.

@syrelian

2 ай бұрын

You do run into language issues when describing diagonal inputs vocally occasionally, plenty of new players get confused by DP inputs when verbalized "Forward, Down, Down-Forward", aka 623, as instead 6226, "Forward, Down, Down, Forward", or somehow get Forward-Down, Down, Forward, 326, because appropriate imagery and word order hasn't been cemented yet But generally when you're not trying to be succinct, lack of brevity is totally valid

It's fine, not like I'll need to sight read during matches. Learning another fighting game notation doesn't even count as a hassle. Now, what makes things difficult for me is when they use the real name of the moves...

@longbeing

2 ай бұрын

I main Bedman?, so I could not tell you the real name of a single one of his specials. They’re even more confusing than their notation.

@fatyoshi696

2 ай бұрын

Arakune pulling up with the algebra equations, I will call the spider grab "if p then q -> negating p" and you can't stop me

@miskarletFGC

2 ай бұрын

@@longbeing I always make people laugh when I instinctively call the 632146S install "Mattress Install" instead of the official... *checks wiki*... CALL 13C ????

@emperormegaman3856

2 ай бұрын

As far as I know, the name of a move is either what they say when using it or what the move looks like.

@miskarletFGC

2 ай бұрын

@@emperormegaman3856 there are some exceptions though, a good one is Guilty Gear ABA: her 623H "Judgement and Sentiment" is called Danzai because that was what her untranslated move was titled in an older game. Although she never says it outloud

My main thing here is that, for the 2XKO case specifically, they probably should have come up with better button names than S1 and S2. Like at least categorize them somehow to give people more context for why you have two "Special" buttons - Heavy and Light Special? Maybe ranged specials are one button, close attacks are another? Something? Imagine if instead of LP, MP, HP, Street Fighter had Punch 1, Punch 2, Punch 3. Immediately you'd ask, why are there 3 punch buttons? What's the difference? Does hitting Punch 1 for every character do something similar? Then why not name them in a way that gives you a better idea what will happen when you hit it?

I got number notation pretty quick after getting into Guilty Gear and hearing commentators say 6P and 2K a lot.

As someone who started playing FGs *this year*, learning numpad was the easiest part of the whole thing so far. I don't know if it's the golden notation standard for every game but it's not some huge barrier to entry, and I personally like it. People talk of abreviating directions as if it completely removes some unnecessary contrivance, but I can speak from personal experience that if english is not your first language, there's gonna be a contrivance one way or another. (The only bit that was weird to see is notation for supers, like "632146H" but even then, at this point my brain just substitutes the whole "okay, so 6 is forward, and" with "It's the one where my hands go schwoop-donk", because I've just seen it a lot.)

@jm91283

2 ай бұрын

Save this for later: 5K 2S 2D > schwoop-donk for oki.

Ah yeah, the Japanese version of the post is very much translated directly and has a lot of redundancies, especially when you’re doing a chain. I see J大K for a jumping heavy kick or JH in contexts like that, then switching to numpad notation for specific directions, but this one literally writes out JUMP every time. To say nothing about “Handshake Tag to Darius” being a mouthful.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

TBF the handshake tag to Darius line is probably just to explain what T means because it's the "unique mechanic" of the game. I doubt it will realistically be used anywhere else (except other PL official twitter combos)

we can solve the "2S2" thing very easily "2SB" "2SA"

@NickJJU

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, and Sajam's comment that they've already committed to S1 and S2 is wack. The game isn't out, homie. They can change stuff

@viciouspink6247

2 ай бұрын

​@@NickJJU anime notations aren't great. Others are fine and more natural. And the fact that tekken and SF both don't use numpad as their standard, as the by far biggest fighting games, makes it pretty reasonable to use down up forward back. And it also naturally works for both player sides. back is always back, no matter if you are P1 or P2. So it's not whack either way. It's just a good way too shut up the anime FGC about their shit notations.

@spooncartrain

2 ай бұрын

​@@viciouspink6247Numpad is more efficient for inputs that arent the standard quarter or half circles, which tekken and street fighter don't have a lot of. The only thing wack is your bitch ass complaining.

@Raven-kn5ih

2 ай бұрын

@@viciouspink6247 Some people in Japan use numpad notation for Tekken. Street fighter doesn't have a standard: Capcom uses images (like, a literal arrow) the wiki uses numpad, social media uses whatever. If anything's standardized it's probably images just for how much they're officially used in the games from their movelist to training mode ⬇↘➡🔥 is supreme.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@@viciouspink6247how are you saying this WITH an anime profile picture

Learning both is probably the best way. DP is much easier to say and write than 623, and half circles (hcf, hcb) are definitely better than typing whole 41236 or 63214, assuming the recipient has the basic understanding that half circles begin and end on horizontals (numpad notation is more verbose and uglier but definitely more precise). Only issue with that official tweet is separating into too many steps (as pointed out). It might even be read counter-intuitively and somewhat suggest there's a delay between all those jump attacks for example. Interpunction is one of the fundamentals of written language and fg notation is no exception - separating moves from each other should only be done when they are actually separate (and not linked into one another smoothly).

@carlosaugusto9821

2 ай бұрын

I prefer the letter based notation and have been fond of the flexibility, like how it kinda cheats the "rules" just to get the point across efficiently: srk or dp meaning the shoryuken command, or spd or even 360 meaning the full circle command. I believe it only shows some weak points with rare strange commands like the old Guile super of SF2, some strange commands of old SNK games, etc. Like Andy Bogard's flying arch kick in Fatal Fury 2 is "downback, upfoward + kick" (sequential, not charged)... then the letters notation makes up more space than in numbers. But well, that command became a half circle forward anyways, so it's alright.

@Vadered99

2 ай бұрын

@@carlosaugusto9821 What's stopping you from using "DP" in numpad notation?

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@Vadered99 I think people use both DP and 623 And for spinning motions I have only seen 360 or 720 or 1080 etc. never 63214789

@syrelian

2 ай бұрын

Most people doing halfcircles in numpad will just say 426, unless the game is one of those older ones where the input parser is an uptight wad about diagonals

that the phrase "down forward" means 3 different things across 3 different games is hilarious and should be studied also lets just switch to numpad for documentation, like why not do that

@Alsry1

2 ай бұрын

Because tekken uses 1234 as buttons

@gavinmattingly9115

2 ай бұрын

​@@Alsry1why not abcd?

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@@gavinmattingly9115it's obviously more convenient because uhhh well you have your first limb right? and your fourth one

"2SA/2SB" that actually sounds about right

They would mix up numpad notation with the name of the game

To me, the only issue with numpad notation is that less and less things even have the numbers in that order. Phone and PIN keypads and digital approximations have the numbers ordered top to bottom, laptops and phone/tablet keyboards almost never have numpads. Unless you work with a calculator frequently in your day to day life you just don't think about the fact that '1' is in the bottom left instead of top left. It's making an analogy to something that's become outdated.

@syrelian

2 ай бұрын

I don't know what world you live in where numpads aren't a common feature but it scares me, I still see plenty of laptops squeeze one in(though many don't) and pretty much every hard keyboard still has one, which most office jobs will give you And its not like outdated things don't persist, people still use letter associations with numbers on phones, even though those have rapidly vanished aside from payphones with the advent of smartphones

@javjuegos_8917

2 ай бұрын

numpads are really useful wth

I'd like to have my notations in X and Y coordinates, thank you very much. I'm feeling adventurous.

@chaoticstarfish3401

2 ай бұрын

How do you represent diagonals?

@slurponaut

2 ай бұрын

@@chaoticstarfish3401 if we use unit circle notation, 9 would be ( [sqrt2/2] , [sqrt2/2] ) and 7 would be ( -[sqrt2/2] , [sqrt2/2] ). 1 would be ( -[sqrt2/2] , -[sqrt2/2] ) and 3 would be ( [sqrt2/2] , -[sqrt2/2] )

@perilousloki4712

2 ай бұрын

@@chaoticstarfish3401as a vector.

@chaoticstarfish3401

2 ай бұрын

@@perilousloki4712 But you need numbers to represent vectors....

@Wesmoen

2 ай бұрын

​@perilousloki4712 pfffff vectors! Real players use matrices.

only thing i can add to this convo is that seeing this tweet + sajams comment about how even putting aside what notation its using, the combo can be written more simply, i was distinctly reminded of those math equations that go viral on twitter every other month with everyone arguing over what the answer is because theyre poorly written. and got the very fun mental comparison of a combo being an algebra equation

I'm once again suggesting we use Z for "special 2" and just solve all the confusion.

I think a good way to avoid the issue of numpad notion sounding bad is for devs to just keep numbers out of the button names. there are so many letters and other symbols to use for that purpose

@Shiratto

2 ай бұрын

Then it's just the reverse of abbreviated directions. Both will still end up having text and numbers

@JordyFidis

2 ай бұрын

@@Shiratto abbreviated directions are not the same across languages, while numpad notations are.

@Shiratto

2 ай бұрын

@JordyFidis Are attack input abbreviations like hp universal across all street fighter content? (not counting the old fierce, etc. stuff)

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@@Shirattoreeking of "I had it bad growing up so it's unfair if the new generation doesn't suffer"

@Shiratto

2 ай бұрын

@ekSil0 How so? How in the world did you imprint that kind of malicious mindset on me from 2 comments in what I thought was a pretty polite discussion? If people want to use numpad notation that's wonderful. I just want to know if it's as ideal as it's made to seem once the learning curve is passed. Please go judge someone who's actually being an asshole in the comment section.

Archaeologist Sajam translating the curse of Ra

LoL players to FGC when game release: "You, higher mamal, Can. you. read?"

Meanwhile, my fucking himbo of a training partner ONLY speaks in Triangle, Square, X and O…..

Ooo~ the annual notation debate

they should just make the special moves letters like A,B not S1 and S2 it messes up the notation

My one gripe with popular notation is that "c" can be short for either "crouching" or "close" (As in for proximity normals). This is why "d" for down is better than c for crouching IMO.

@joe_mama__

2 ай бұрын

There is also cr.L/M/H

@brightshadow80

2 ай бұрын

I have only seen 2 for a crouching and c. for close like a Sol Badguy combo would be c(lose).S f(ar).S 2D (crouching D) 236K. But I mostly use the Dustloop and Mizuumi wikis so I am biased. Combo without notes: c.S f.S 2D 236K

TLDR: just learn all the ways to express notation as you go instead of making up tribes for specific ways to always express notation every single time that don't exist.

@killerkonnat

2 ай бұрын

And then switch notation every 3 moves in the combo.

Tekken's notation makes the most sense to me. Having to look at numpad when I play on console made it take awhile to understand numpad. Tekken just makes sense

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

Yes I have written the numbers 1-4 on my limbs so when I'm feeling unsure I pull my leg up and take a gander at my foot.

So how long until we discuss "while running" "while standing" "while rising" in Tekken again?

Fighting game code switching is the absolute best way to put it, complaining about one style or another is dumb or adhering strictly to one style is dumb. Just play the game and learn the in game moves, then when you look for combos online and see any version of notation, it shouldn’t be like deciphering a dead language because you have the end result already you’re just looking for the proper sequence to input those moves.

4:05 What do you mean?! 2S2 sounds cool as hell!! I'd use that! 4:09 Oh no I'm a damned idiot

Its nice to have these regular discussion topics in the FGC that never go anywhere. Almost feels like a work meeting.

I love how just a single community manager (probably) resparked the whole debate about input notation and combo describing

This reminds me of hearing my musician friends argue which type of Solfege (a system of assigning musical notes to syllables) is best between "Moveable Do" (the main note of the scale is "Do") or "Fixed Do" ("Do" is always C Natural, no matter what key you're in). Like...bruh. They both have survived up to this point because they have inherent advantages over the other, and they're more intuitive to certain people. Neither one is all that hard to learn.

The biggest takeaway for me is that apparently this giant videogame company didn't have the werewithal to check "how to Japanese people notate aerial attacks?" and instead of just looking at a Japanese game and seeing "空中" or seeing that Japanese players are entirely comfortable with "j" they just directly translated it as "ジャンプ".

@javjuegos_8917

2 ай бұрын

shonen jampu

I liked jm's idea of using arrow emojis for notation, partly because it looks nice and partly because I'm a zoomer degen who wants more emojis in everything

@limb-o7180

2 ай бұрын

I find arrow notations very hard to read because at first glance 236 and 623 look similar to me, I have to look at each individual arrow first to know what input it is. that's why i don't like GGs patch notes layout because they use arrow notations there.

@Lira_orpheus

2 ай бұрын

Is a cool idea... Until you have to use a computer. I'm positive about using emojis, but it probably shouldn't be the most dominant notation.

@bwnnn

2 ай бұрын

​@@Lira_orpheus You can access an emoji keyboard on desktop via win + . in Windows, and ctrl + cmd + space in MacOS. Still, I feel like that's pretty cumbersome to do, and I personally I find the end result to be neither clearer nor more aesthetically pleasing than numpad.

@Lira_orpheus

2 ай бұрын

@@bwnnn Huh, the more you know. Still a lot less convenient than just moving my hand to the numpad. As for results, I guess it depends. I find the simple arrows more legible than the ones in the squares, for example. Still prefer numpad tho.

@Twisted_Logic

2 ай бұрын

@@bwnnn You just expanded my mind bro

I appreciate them putting the jump command in the combo. There have been times where I couldn't get combos to work because those weren't notated and the jumps or dashes were only visible for a few frames. I'm also pretty new to fighting games, so it might just be a new player problem, but notating it feels like a win to me

@BudewFan_

2 ай бұрын

Jump notation is really nice for really short hops but for bigger jumps it is implied, def not a new player problem, I think everyone fucks up combos due to the numpad notation not fully conveying the nuance of the combo, but it’s also way faster to right 214 than back quarter circle so it’s a trade off ig

@AxolotlDreams-u-

2 ай бұрын

@@BudewFan_ If we're talking about writing english shortands, qcb would be the way to write it.

@NickJJU

2 ай бұрын

It's also nice to know for certain combos that the jump needs to be specifically a forward jump, or specifically a neutral jump in order to work

@BudewFan_

2 ай бұрын

@@AxolotlDreams-u- didn’t think about shorthanding the words, that could be pretty useful, tho tbh numpad is already doing most of what it needs to do, people could just start writing out specific things in the combo text where necessary (like microdash instead of just 66) but that’s kinda sidestepping the entire issue so idk

The problem with NumPad notation for me is that it only makes sense when your character is on the left side of the screen. 4 = Back, 6 = forward, but if your on the right side of the screen its really confusing to translate that notion correctly.

it is trivial to learn any style of notation once you're familiar enough with fighting games to know the underlying vocabulary the symbols are meant to represent, so the discourse is absolutely unwarranted. but no way "2S1" sounding bad is their excuse. have they tried pronouncing "2XKO"? 💀

@harpot678

2 ай бұрын

There are clear advantages to numpad notation such as having no ambiguity when describing something etc. but it should probably only stay as shorthand between people well versed committed to the scene and in the know, and not a fighting game standard for anything not a conversation between in the know players. I don't own a keyboard with a numpad and when inputting a phone number the 1 is at the top. The final physical form of a numpad that comes to my mind that exists is a calculator.

@JohnDoeWasntTaken

2 ай бұрын

@@harpot678 The difference is a phone and calculator don't have numpads. Numpad refers specifically to the one on a PC keyboard and nowhere else. It's the most barebones and explicit way of conveying inputs making it better for beginners who haven't yet learned all the vocabulary and move names. People who don't own a keyboard w/ numpad can just google a picture of one. I don't care which notation people use but suggesting numpad should be reserved only for convos between veterans is downright silly. Also I should add that numpad isn't subject to any language barriers while other notations can be, that's a pretty big deal when FGs are played worldwide.

@harpot678

2 ай бұрын

@@JohnDoeWasntTaken For beginners you show a picture of the input, or the position where the stick needs to rest. It isn't hard to learn per se, and should be learned if you want to engage in the hobby past the surface level, but you cannot expect every person who learns a fighting game to need to.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@@harpot678learning the notation is easier than learning the actual game though. for the low low price of *some* effort you are now able to parse strings a lot easier

@harpot678

2 ай бұрын

@@ekSil0 Yeah you can, and you should if you're interested in learning those strings. It is probably worth learning. The only real thing I'm opposed to if it becomes a barrier you HAVE to cross rather than 'I kind of want to learn what these people are talking about'

It's wild that we're still having this discussion in an age where not only do emojis that point in directions exist, but also literal unicode arrow characters exist that are capable of appearing on every single computer ever made. Maybe we should just use those instead.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

I think just pressing numbers on the numpad is a lot easier than holding alt and pressing a number combination for ONE (1) input. I love the idea though

When typing = numpad (2mk>214mk) When speaking = move names (crouching medium kick into medium tatsu)

This combo is trivial, and the notation is left as an exercise for the viewer.

Good topic. I transcribe combos to post its for multiple games: training & pre-match vs. I've found drawing arrows for directions to be easiest/most useful (especially some supers), or number pad. For ddS2, I'd do two arrows down S2 or 22 S2(circled). Fun vid.

Desperately need to meet a linguistics nerd who's also into fighting games

I learned numpad notation a decade ago, but I still have to imagine a numpad in my head everytime I translate combos to buttons in my brain

Yeah, with stuff like that thumbnail, thank goodness for abbreviated notations.

Id like to take this opportunity to tell you that Arcsys uses Numpad notation internally. The internal list of valid inputs in strive uses numpad notation to label various inputs.

Coming from smash I got numpad notation pretty quickly, but what got me was the notation for aerial attacks. In smash every time you say jump you have to jump, but in anime games you call all aerial moves "jumping moves," so even if you're doing a chain from light to medium to heavy without re-jumping you still write it as jL jM jH, and at first I would try to do a jumping light then land then jump then do heavy etc., because that's how aerial juggles work in smash. I only figured it out when I saw a youtube video. It takes a while to learn the notation for each type of fighting game, and I guess that's what Infilament's FGC glossary is for.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

some things are more intuitive than others sadly. good job on you for solving it though!

I know they've already named the buttons S1 and S2 but they should be notated as simply A and B IMO. Would remove any confusion using numpad notation

I personally also only use compass rose notation

Joining the war on numpad notation on the side of numpad notation

I'll be sitting here, waiting for the League players to pick up the game call their specials Q, W and E (with R for the level 3, of course).

ive had people get really antagonistic over the idea of anything but numpad. But these will be the same people that say boomers hate change

I used to be a numpad diehard, but as soon as I moved to tekken and punches and kicks were called 1,2,3,4 I just adjusted to not using numbers since it would obviously be confusing in that system

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

it's like moving to another country with another language. you kinda just need to adjust if they're not using your system (no matter what the quality of their system is)

Now that I have seen number notation I’m glad it exists and it is efficient but I can read other notations like this perfectly fine

I do prefer numpad notation but regardless I hope they rename S1 and S2 to some combination of special (S), power (P), or ability or art (A). It's not that these are necessarily better but it is a little less clunky then S1 and S2 imo (especially when said aloud). Also it is not like it is set in stone, the game still isn't out so in reality they could easily change basic notation things like this.

Damn that thumbnail. Now I want a character who has a command normal called "Southwest Heavy Kick" on his 1hK

the guy who said it makes it seem like you have to jump 4 times in a row is right, but no matter how ugly the notation is on this tweet, i still think the name of the game is worse.

@MarkoLomovic

2 ай бұрын

No it didn't it. J just mean while jumping jumping 4 time would be jc which would be jump cancel or just J. This is for example random milia combo: AA c.S jc j.S > j.D jc j.S > j.D airdash j.S > j.D delay j.236P

@longbeing

2 ай бұрын

In theory that would be an issue, but realistically, landing and jumping take long enough that you could never jump, do a single aerial attack, and land four times in a row in a combo. I think it would be pretty intuitive that the moves should be strung together in one jump. Besides, people who know what they’re doing put “land” where you’re supposed to land in the combo.

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

the point is literally just how seperating the inputs makes it harder to read at a glance and adds to the clutter

These conversations are hilarious coming over from card games, where we can't agree how to turn a card sideways.

Having to learn a game specific notation is what numpad notation is trying to solve.

@wannabecinnabon

2 ай бұрын

I don't even play street fighter yet I know their goddamn notation why are y'all like this

Sajam immediately came up with a better notation system

I have a ton of notes for FGs on my phone and I'll often switch between formats even mid-sequence without even thinking. It's obviously different for commentary and perhaps youtube but in general it isnt that deep. Even the comment about not needing "uf" and the jump is implied, i definitely ran into mvc2 combos where i had to neutral jump instead of forward jump. So maybe NJ and J is fine in that case but either way, some specificity will occasionally be required. The whole numpad fixation is interesting considering many keyboards dont even include a 10 key just for portability purposes.

I personally work in numpad notation for almost everything. Unless I'm explaining to someone that doesn't play fighting games (so my friends) I use numpad even verbally and within my inner monologue. Unless I'm actually using the names of the specials and supers, which I tend to memorize for my main.

Riot really should change the s1/s2 buttons names to be less gross in notation. I think they want it because it harkens to summoner 1/summoner 2, but it's clearly different so c'mon bro, don't fuck us like this rito

@noeldanchou3170

2 ай бұрын

Its special 1 and 2 also super 1 and 2 when you do a Lvl 1 and 2 its not that different what are you talking about?

The thing I can't stand about Numpad notation vs Tekkens notation for example, is that it's not ambidextrous. You have to mirror the shit when you swap sides. Up Forward is always up forward regardless of side, Down Back is always Down Back regardless of side.

@joncliffmckinley5868

2 ай бұрын

except it is. 6 is forward, always. 2 is down, always. 4 is back, always.

@Copperhell144

2 ай бұрын

I mean, all you have to do is think of "6" as "forward" instead of thinking of it as "right", and suddenly numpad notation also becomes ambidextrous. I can see why it would be difficult if you are imagining an actual numpad in your head though.

@wannabecinnabon

2 ай бұрын

@@joncliffmckinley5868 But then we out here writing the sideswap combos and shit's a free for all

@joncliffmckinley5868

2 ай бұрын

@@wannabecinnabon you still have to notate a sideswap in qcf format or whatever. its not like anyone formats its like "down-left Heavy Punch"

Directional arrow images/emojis are the best option and easiest to read, for me at least. ➡⬇↘ etc.

Time truly is a circle gate

Reject 2H, embrace crouching fierce

@Danceofmasks

2 ай бұрын

Fierce? You mean we should pay attention to a nintendo manual for a game which was objectively inferior on console? No. That manual was written by a ****

@intellectic9155

2 ай бұрын

Facts. NUMPAD is for dudes who are also into being pegged.

@johnjohnothan5927

2 ай бұрын

Cr. Hp always

@GerBessa

2 ай бұрын

Behold the 2H of a God!

Whenever im learning stuff i have to go into notepad and translate numpad notation into qcf, qcb, etc

@chocobolord_

2 ай бұрын

Same, as a Tekken player I hate having to check numpad all the time to read combos lol

@ekSil0

2 ай бұрын

​@@chocobolord_there you have your problem

i paused the video to figure out what uf was. it took me a minute to realized its up forward, wondered why they didn't just use j.c and unpaused just for sajam to explain what it was 2 seconds later.

What I want to know is what's the most cursed notation. Like "6 fierce into 4 roundhouse". Or Tekken where the buttons are numbers saying "3 1 > 4 2+4". Perhaps "qc6HP"

I always use numpad when writing stuff. But out loud I don't really use it for specials only normals. It'll just be like "do 2MP into Heavy Dp" or "you can combo Dp into medium tackle". It's just easier for me to say it that way.

I hope that social media manager got a nice bonus.

⬇↘➡✊

i think one reason to use this notation over numpad is due to the audience reach riot has. flat out probably a good amount of people that might end up playing 2xko will be from league that hasn't even touched a fighting game... and some of them play on a laptop or keyboard that doesn't have a numpad so i can see those players thinking it refers to the top row of the keyboard. so them posing it in this style notation and not numpad could be for entry level players, or the devs are just more use to the older style notation

The fighting game player to ship captain pipeline is finally about to pop off.

petition for a motion input series of emojis so we need to have this discussion anymore. You know whats better than 236P or QCFP just tapping an image of a quarter circle forward and typing P after.

As amateur musician, this feels like tabs vs note notation. One works, but the other adds a little more. Like context and tempo. Instead of only position.

its funny that they say "oh, its too late, we've already decided on S1 and S2" as if its that ridiculously hard of a change to make. and even if they don't, what is stopping the players from just referring to them as SA and SB regardless of what it says in-game? they can't really control what notation people use, and it's silly to try.

i like this cuz it makes me nostalgic for mvc3 notation

I love numpad notation because it is universal and so easy to read and write. If it can be universal and remove ambiguity I am all for it.

I do like numpad notation but I will say, I do find it hard to read at a glance. I personally find that 236 and 623 get blended together for me visually and the lack of height differences between numbers and capital letters makes keeping my place reading a combo difficult. So I like it in some contexts and I prefer letters in other cases. It's nice to just know all the systems.

Notation stops being scary when you understand your character's moves. I say this as a VERY new T8 player.

I’ve always had a soft spot for Street Fighter’s individually named buttons. “Jab, Strong, Fierce” “Short, Forward, Roundhouse” It’s nostalgic, sounds interesting, and rolls off the tongue easily.

@Copperhell144

2 ай бұрын

MK being Forward is a bit unfortunate though, especially when it comes to certain command normals.

@joncliffmckinley5868

2 ай бұрын

yeah, "hit forward forward" do I mean a dash, or a 6MK??

@GrassSaint33

2 ай бұрын

​@@joncliffmckinley5868 yeah but who says "forward forward" instead of just dash?

@joncliffmckinley5868

2 ай бұрын

@@GrassSaint33 people explaining things?

@McCrackenVaughn

2 ай бұрын

@@Copperhell144 yeah certainly, even people like me use those terms tend to still say "crouching medium kick."

Imagine if the community just went full calculus and writes s1 and s2 as Sα and Sβ.

@xetsuma

2 ай бұрын

That sounds like something a Japanese dev would actually use. They use the actual greek letter instead of the word written out phonetically for the word "beta"