In the old days we used "flippy" floppies on Tandy Color Computers (Although some people did have double sided drives). These were double-sided floppies, but we used them on single-sided drives, but used both sides. One thing I noticed was you mentioned notching the opposing side in order to flip the disk in the drive, you even mentioned how the index hole was then on the wrong side, but you forgot something. We used a standard "single" hole punch used for punching holes in paper to create a "new" index hole opposite the original hole... Two methods were used. First: Some people carefully opened the one end of the floppy disk cover, we opened the end that sticks out of the drive by carefully prying the sealed flap up. We would then gently remove the disk. We would then use the hole punch to create a new hole straight through the cover where the index hole should be for the "flipped" floppy. We would then reinsert the disk back into the cover and use tape to reseal the cover. Second: Some people would leave the diskette cover intact. If you cover you hole punch with a soft (preferably cloth) tape in order to protect the surface of the disk inside the diskette, you can gently lift the outer cover away from the disk. You then insert one side of the hole punch into the cover with the other side outside the cover being carefully NOT to place the disk into the hole punch. punch the hole through the outer cover on one side. now flip the diskette over and using the same method punch a matching hole on the other side of the cover. The result should be two small index holes in opposing positions, with the larger access hole (oblong) and the drive hole (large circular) Hole between them. Another Note is it make the job easier to use an old dead diskette to line up the new index holes. You CAN easily remove the disk from the dead diskette by pulling it out through the large round hole. You can then overlay the dead floppy over the floppy you wish to make into a "flippy" floppy. After the advent of double-sided diskettes, many single sided diskettes were actually double-sided. Some companies would sell double-sided floppies as single sided if the disk inside the diskette had bad sectors on one side. However, many times the single-sided floppies had zero flaws and were viable double-sided disks labeled single-sided and sold "cheaper" than the double-sided, that was because they still sold single-sided disks, but the factory really only produced double-sided diskettes. One thought I always had was if programmed properly a disk controller should be able to read both sides of the "flippy" floppies. This would involve totally reprogramming the routine to read and write the floppies back side. The index hole would pass the sensor, but instead of it now indicating that you are at the start sector zero, it would indicate you have passed sector zero. It would use the fact that the drive spins at 300 or 360 rpm's and "time" when sector 0 would pass again. It would then read the correct sector, however the data is in reverse order, so another sub-routine would need to reverse the order of the data. One other factor. Data on diskettes is usually stored as FM or MFM, which is a form of Pulse Code Modulation, and I am unsure if the data uses the falling or rising point pulses, but that too could be compensated for.

@WalterGreenIII

3 жыл бұрын

I thought of something else... Too bad the drive motor can not spin backwards. The disk inside the floppy would NOT know the difference since it already spins backwards when "flipped" If a floppy drive motor could spin backwards, you cold also place a new LED and photo transistor on the opposing side of the drive. Whatever circuitry used to reverse the motor could also switch from using the original LED and photo transistor to using the added LED and photo transistor. The rest of the circuitry would NEVER know the motor is running backwards. The side select could work normally only reversing the head, however a switch on the front of the drive would reverse the motor, and reverse which side is seen as side one and zero. Two unusual side effects of this is that if you put a double-sided floppy into the drive upside down, flipping the switch would mean you could still read it! Also this could be a simple form of "encrypting" you data. Put as disk into the drive the normal way, flip the switch so everything is reversed, format and write data to the disk. Putting this disk into a drive without this modification results in the computer getting a "data format" it does not understand!

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

Well, it would depend on the motor and driver IC to switch rotation direction. It still leaves the problem that PC floppy drives have the second head offset by 8 tracks. So you will never be able to read the first eight tracks of the second side without modding the drive. What we really need is a custom floppy drive with non- offset tracks. The direction reversal can be done in software as you said.

Thanks for the detailed explanation :) Appreciated..

Thanks so much for doing this Greaseweazle review, VERY nicely done! One question: At 13:42 you say "SPF" format for SuperCard Pro. I'm actually a long-time SuperCard Pro user (since 2014), so the Greaseweazle is new to me, and thus my visit to your video today. But I've always known that the file extension for the SuperCard Pro to be the SCP, not SPF as you say. Was this just a mis-speak, or is there really a SPF format as well?

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. SPF: Probably a slip of the mind! :)

Neat!

Thank you for the review! I just got a pack of Blue Pill boards for getting into STM32 development, this looks like a really cool use for them.

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

For sure! And you don’t even need the 40 pin adapter board. For prototyping you can wire it up directly.

Nice, I just ordered a greasewasel a few days ago. Are there any floppy drives better than others for this? Also do you have a link to the index hole mod for using C64 flippy disks? Thanks!

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

The TEAC FD55 seems to be popular. Cowlark of Fluxengine fame describes it here: cowlark.com/fluxengine/doc/Index_sensor_mod_FDD_1.1.pdf

can this be used as a normal a: drive or b: drive (1.44 or 1.2meg floppy drives??) thanks......

Thanks for the overview! My only suggestion is include a link where people can learn more about obtaining a blue pill and programming it.

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, will add the relevant links!

Thanks. Non copy protected apple ii disks also work. Works best with DOS formatted disks, but som prodos disks also work.

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, the software supports lots more disk formats, however I don't have that many different media samples... The Greaseweazle itself is more or less agnostic to the discs. Only when interpreting the flux data with either keirf's disk utilities, hxcfe or fluxengine you get to pick which format is actually used. So yeah, for Apple II users this should also be a pretty affordable solution.

Can this usb floppy controller, or any other like this one, be used as a normal old standard disk controller? Having the old 5.25" disk drive in Windows as A: or B: -drive? Without having to use any extra software to read/write to the disk drive?

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

No, there is no software as of yet that allows you to do that. I guess it would be possible in theory, but no one has ever done something like that yet.

I have a V4 which works fine on ADOS + PC disks. Non-Dos/Protected disks can be copied RAW but they are huge (around 40 Meg). Tried converting them via HxC but no luck --- prob coz of diff in Track no's IE 79 to 81 ?

I've just bought a GW f7 plus lightning, can I use an Amiga 500 FDD with that connected to a PC?

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

Probably with a few wire modifications, but it’s probably easier to just use a PC HD drive. It can read and write Amiga DD disks just fine.

@darrenlomax1283

3 жыл бұрын

Thankyou

when attached to a 1.44 or 1.2 drive (can it be used as a normal a or b drive?) thanks.....

@root42

Жыл бұрын

No, it is meant to be used as a means to read and write disk images. There is no software yet to support what you are asking. Though not impossible…

A solution for reading 5.25 inch double sided floppies > Read Side A as normal. Next - take a sharp blade and make a full cut along the rear edge. One should now wear rubber/latex gloves at this point. Carefully open the gap, and slowly pull out the media. Flip 180 degrees and push it back in. Use small piece of scotch tape to keep the new opening - closed. This concept should work...

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed, if you need to rescue the data and don't mind that the floppy disk isn't pristine after that, it's ok to do. I wouldn't do that to original game media though. :) It's also an option if you need to clean the disk anyway, e.g. because of mold.

23:30 this is the copy protection of GEOS not finding the special data so it detects it is a copy. The disc image would need to have the copy protection intact, and that is not supported in d64 files, only in g64 files. 09:00 actually you got it wrong, 1541 A-side actually uses the bottom of the disk, so always the bottom side of the disk is actually read and writtein a 1541, not the upper side that you see when inserting it into the drive.

@root42

Жыл бұрын

Re: 1541 A side: Yes, I do know that now, after having disassembled, cleaned and repaired (or failed to) a couple of 1541s. But thanks for the info. Also by now I do know about the weird GEOS protection. Good grief, they were serious about that back then!

any chance of using this as an emulator ??

Where can I buy one pre-assembled ?

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

Just search for the blue pill board, e.g.: stm32-base.org/boards/STM32F103C8T6-Blue-Pill.html You can wire up to the GPIO pins according to the Github Wiki: github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/wiki/Hardware-Setup And you will have to flash the MCU with the Firmware: github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle/wiki/Firmware-Programming

does the greaseweasel work with apple II disks?

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

I am not sure I have any! But why not? I guess they will use relatively standard disks? If they are 40 tracks it should be doable!

I’m fairly sure that at least in the Atari 1050 disk drive the read head is on the bottom and the top has a felt pad, meaning that on a single sided disk the data is on the bottom side opposite the disk label side. BTW the Atari drive did not use the index pulse, so flipping the disk was easy. I scored some hard sectored disks from work, which had multiple index holes (one per sector), which worked great in the Atari drive, since the Atari drive didn’t care.

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

1541 is the same as the Atari disk drive in that regard. No index hole, and single sided with read head on the bottom. I also have an XM1541 cable, so I can use that as well for reading and writing C64 images. However having the Greaseweazle support flippy disks would be nice, too.

I just bought a GW4 to use with UAE and I must say, it works like a dream on the Mitsumi 3.5 fdd I found online for $15 😀, it literally took me 15 minutes to get it up and running, Thanks to all of the people responsible for the development of the hardware and software, it's a blessing to the retro computing community. Now my question, is it compatible with a GoTek FDD emulator?

@root42

Жыл бұрын

That's a fun experiment -- my guess would be yes, as both parts emulate their respective parts of a FDD system. The GW emulates the FDC, the Gotek the actual FDD.

can this boot Amiga floppies? allsorts of programs like games and commercial programs too? thanks........ using Winuae can it boot from them ? thanks....

@root42

Жыл бұрын

That is possible using BETA builds of WINUAE. See here for more details: amiga.robsmithdev.co.uk/winuae

can this read Apple Mac disks old 800k and 400k discs? too? thanks.

@root42

3 жыл бұрын

I am not sure I have any, but I would assume it can! If Amiga can be read, then why not Mac. They are not that much weirder than the Amiga.

someone from italy sent me this device with a floppy drive... can i use this thing to create real floppies for the amiga 500? if anyone has any usefull info please respond to this post;) i need to create an amiga workbench 1.3 floppy - the thing i have says greaseweazle pc drive rev1 and gets powered by a miniusb-standard usb port cable

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

Yes the Greaseweazle can of course write Amiga disks. Should be no problem. Make sure to use the latest GW release (0.38 as time of writing) and to update the GW firmware using the "gw update" command.

interesting device ! can it copy E-MU SP1200 sampler drum machine floppies to convert them to Gotek readable floppies , anyone?

@root42

2 жыл бұрын

It can image any 40-80 track formats, and even some other weird ones. Question is if there is software to convert it to something Gotek can read. Also most of the time FlashFloppy is recommended for Gotek.

@jazzroom

2 жыл бұрын

@@root42 thanks for reply - appreciate it! There is a Kryoflux device that can read anything including e-mu 1200 floppy disks ..and HxC software can recognise and convert them ..but it's muck much more pricey than the Greasewhezle... ( I am in Europe so it gets even more pricey with shipping and customs fees) that's why I am curious if it can be done with this intriguing device ? 🤔

See, for me, the price of the KryoFlux isn't the problem. It's their license. See, I run a couple small businesses from my home. Sometimes one of said businesses involves old computers, but retrocomputing is, at the moment, mostly a hobby. However, on their ordering page, they say they will cancel your order if they determine your address to be anything other than purely residential. So OK, fine you say - just get the commercial license. Well, you can't even see pricing or anything on their page, instead you must reach out to one of their sales people. I'm sorry - but if you won't even tell me what to expect, or what your company size/use restrictions are, I'm out. GreaseWeazle should be here in a couple days. I like the software for the KF, but am unwilling to dance through their hoops if I dare to try to recoop some of my investment in their product - or if they deem my intent as such.