i went to aa for 25 years and it took 1 year to deprogram from it , and as god of my world, thank god i mean thank me

@mikew3625

5 жыл бұрын

the worst thing to ever happen to me was AA and the abusive scumbag loser's that go there (mostly court ordered rapists & pedophiles)...had to leave AA to get sober with doctor's help...still working on getting over the hatred and the harm

@valentinowerahiko1084

5 жыл бұрын

@Richard Head so in other words he went out and drank again.

@paulbangash4317

5 жыл бұрын

Valentino Werahiko you really are a piece of work. You are an arsehole , an inept , hollow coward.

@forgiven0019

5 жыл бұрын

Valetintino Werahiko......your just jealous of those of us that don't need the program to stay sober

@markg.4246

5 жыл бұрын

Lisa Benowitz AA is for those who want it, not necessarily for those who “need” it. Alcohol is not the root problem Lisa. Best wishes to you.

I'm not an alcoholic, however was married to a recovering one for fourteen years. What I saw was a group designed to take away the alcohol, not the addictive personality. My ex replaced beer with spending, and then blamed our financial woes on me for not managing our money better. He also found his new wife there. I had an inkling he was involved with someone because I could do nothing right in his eyes, where in the past, before AA, he couldn't dote on me enough. He talked me into going to A-Anon, but I stopped soon after. I guess I just couldn't be turned into a 12 step Stepford wife. In my opinion, it's a poisonous group with a bunch of messed up people, many who put on the facade of having all the answers in life when they can't get their own lives together.

@paulbangash4317

5 жыл бұрын

Teri Carson i have experienced this with the mother of my younger son. Killed her soul. Mercifully , my boys are fine , grown up , and we are close. Because of experience , anybody brings that 12 step poison near my loved ones is likely to be badly hurt.

@tericarson5854

5 жыл бұрын

@@paulbangash4317 It can be harmful , and definitely affects the entire family.

@elizabethowens8548

4 жыл бұрын

Yup full of narcissism

@jeremiahcummins8896

4 жыл бұрын

So true

@MrAnarchris

4 жыл бұрын

i have 30 yrs experience in AA, your story has the "ring of truth". i have found that smaller towns and cities have really poor fellowships - relying on power trippers in the meetings. in San Francisco, you can find meetings on the other side of town where the power tripper is not even known. here in reno, nv the power trippers/13 steppers/bleeding deacons - run AA and do not mind letting alcoholics die.

Why on hell would I take any advice from a sponsor in a 12step fellowship that even they admit there life is unmanageable...

@user-mg6ml6uf9w

5 ай бұрын

Well said

@brendangallagher5336

2 ай бұрын

WAS unmanageable and IS unmanageable are two different things. My sponsor has been sober for YEARS and has a great life now in his sobriety. Sounds like your alcoholism is talking you away from help, I struggle with that all the time also.

@GoatGarrett72

Ай бұрын

EXACTLY WE ARE NOT POWERLESS THATS A CULT TACTIC ALSO the whole dry thing is BS and another dumb cult tactic. If im not happy at 6 months + w/o alcohol then i dont know what happy is because i love my life

@headphoneuser3328

13 күн бұрын

@@brendangallagher5336 Do you worship bill and his 12 steps or are you just able to abstain from the sauce?

@brendangallagher5336

13 күн бұрын

@@headphoneuser3328 Some people can abstain on their own, I was never one of them. I relapsed chronically. I don’t worship any program but AA gave me accountability, which I needed. When you have a problem that tells you you don’t have a problem it’s pretty hard to do it on your own. AA just makes staying sober easier. It keeps the obsession to drink away and is a daily reminder that I cant drink again or i’ll pick right back up where I left off.

I have been alcohol-free for almost eight years and AA was the worst experience I ever had the people are terrible that attend meetings they don't know nothing

@user-mg6ml6uf9w

5 ай бұрын

AA is nothing more than a cult that uses fear mongering to keep you believing there absolutely insane message that you are powerless over not jus alcohol but life. We are not powerless. We are powerful! I left and will never go back or recommend AA. I am alcohol free, happy and living my best life

@timmojennings

2 ай бұрын

Do they know grammar

@TheJimbo1791

2 ай бұрын

@@timmojennings who is your grandma?

@GoatGarrett72

Ай бұрын

exactly! Not everyone in meetings is a bad person or a cocky sexual predator. Just more than any other group of people ive been around!

I wish I knew your background. Or at least where u developed your thoughts. I feel in my soul A.A. is wrong. I always did.

Cults can't tolerate questions when they're not on the approved list.

@brendangallagher5336

2 ай бұрын

There's no obligation to attend, No fee's, No leader, No worship of any religious deities and no seclusion from the outside world. AA is not a cult, it's a fellowship. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. I would go back and look up the difference between a fellowship and a cult.

@doublequin

2 ай бұрын

@@brendangallagher5336 I would go back and shut your goddamn mouth

@doublequin

2 ай бұрын

@@brendangallagher5336 you're parroting the cult's jargon. That's cult behavior. Most of what you are saying also isn't actually accurate

@brendangallagher5336

2 ай бұрын

@@doublequin I mean whatever you wanna think, i’m still sober.

@doublequin

2 ай бұрын

@@brendangallagher5336 the two things you just said bear no relationship. I'm glad you quit drinking but I don't particularly care if you drink or not. And your choice to avoid or buy up the beer aisle has no impact on my thought process.

AA is a shame based program designed to keep you coming back with no true solution. I walk into a meeting and the energy is dark

@visam28

4 жыл бұрын

It feels toxic with the negative self talk that goes around the room. Different meetings same self talk

@eddykohlmann471

3 жыл бұрын

I didn't realize how bad it was until I got out

@katherinechase3674

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I feel it is extremely fear based as well, with rigid belief systems-

@littlebirdling238

3 жыл бұрын

It is VERY dark!

@lawlasorus

8 ай бұрын

Wow, I guess I never picked up on the absolute shroud of black terror that veils itself with the laughter, joy and success of the rooms. 🤡

Covd helped me most not meetings. I left AA to confront my fear of isolation and loneliness. I was also pissed off asking a silent God every night and morning what his daily Will was for me ot otherwise. No thought not even my own popped up as some intuition or decision so i stopped asking and went on with my day. I got thru Covd easily. I felt connected to people around the world in a general sense just from knowing we were in a shared position of loneliness. AA never helped my loneliness. Just accused me of self pity or laziness while dismissing the medical conditions that government doctors plus my own acknowledged prevented me from working. I tried to get into voluntary work but medical issues prevented even that. Ive accepted my lot in life since and no longer pray for a miracle or a Gods Will Vision etc. Im sober too and relatively stress free as a result despite my medical issues which are incurable. I did drink again after 3 yrs for some months as I thought about euthanasia but stopped since when I accepted my lot and resumed a desire to live. I did so without any prayers. I guess i accepted what IS and not what i wished my reality to be. I occasionally go to meetings but am careful not to buy every single thing that Bill W states in 164 Big Book pages or 12 and 12 book.

I had another addiction that was treated using the AA method, as a Christian it's even harmful for the relationship with God, because it makes you resent him. Happy i found other sources and experiences as mine, good video.

Thank you sir for joining us, it's much appreciated The joy your presence brings us must not be understated If you want the blessed life for which you were created Prepare yourself, son, to be humbled or humiliated There are no leaders here, except for me of course So now you're under my command, either willingly or by force Now I know it's a tough decision so take some time to think it over But please do bear in mind there's no other way you'll possibly stay sober It's all love here, we never with desert you You're one of us now, nothing can ever hurt you Don't think for yourself and all will be well And prepare to worship me Or go and burn in hell @t

@kc-qs8qg

2 жыл бұрын

very good 😊

I just got shunned after an aa meeting bc I said I was having thoughts about new info and the book being old. A couple of people were cold after and a couple of people didn’t seem to notice. They were friendly. I think the ones who seemed to shun me are afraid. They don’t want their minds dirtied but my unclean ideas.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting. It's weird that they won't update their primary text and think it's just perfect.

May I share something here. If it’s inappropriate, please forgive me but I just want all of you to know how incredible it is to see people waking up to this cult and how damaging it can be. We just lost our son/stepson to an overdose in August. He was in AA, met the most toxic nightmare of a woman there and although I know people are responsible for their own actions, he literally had to die to be rid of her. He passed and her and her AA buddies were stealing his property 2 hrs later. I wish I could turn back time and have more talks with him about leaving AA, but what can you do? I’m venting but I really want to scream. The bullshit mind games that they constantly drill is maddening. I truly hope more wake up to its toxic environment and leave it!

I don't understand people talking there blah, blah, against AA. Nobody MUST go to an AA meeting or read the book. Nobody must believe in a higher power. Nobody must do anything if they don't want. It's everybody's own life, and if people can get sober without AA, that's great. I wish you all the best.

@alicesadler5441

2 ай бұрын

I think the aa program is a wonderful program and they keep me sober

I go to secular/freethinker/atheist/agnostic AA meetings. Problem solved. It's the best of AA with none of the nonsense. You can find them online or in person.

I found the book :"12 Steps to Destruction " by Bobgan excellent. I am a Christian & so is the book but I believe its description of how the "disease" aspect was pushed in Step 1 great to deprogramme my brain out the cult. I will Never return. I do not like deception from twisting the bible to suit their purposes.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

How interesting to hear a Christian's objection to the religiosity of the Twelve Steps. I have known several believers whose opinion is to leave their religion of of their recovery. Very devout, go to church, etc, but keep it separate from their recovery program.

@morgan2205

5 ай бұрын

Amen. I was a member for 27 years...srially relapsing and having to do the walk of shame back. so i thought. Nothing to do with the cult of gossip and betrayal. witchcraft. STEP 1..We admitted we are NOT powerless in CHRIST. Step 2 walk with Him and follow Him and be free for eternity! God bless you

The aa program has nothing but improved my life .ive had wonderful experiences in aa program.ill continue . The meetings the bigbook fellowship all keep you sober sponsor helps you . Ive met wonderful people in the program .and having God in my life only helps.me to stay sober

The Big Book saved my life but meetings almost killed me, literally. I read the book, did what it said and people in meetings hated me for “trying to carry the message” of the book in meetings and not the message of the established members. It got so bad that they started to threaten me and I was eventually beat up and ended up the the ER with six broken ribs. . I do not go to AA meetings but read the book and have not had a drink in almost thirty years.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

5 жыл бұрын

Frank 522 thank you for taking the time to comment.

@kazkazimierz1742

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds to me you were a Big Book Thumper.

@MrAnarchris

4 жыл бұрын

@@kazkazimierz1742 you sound like a 90 day wonder

@kazkazimierz1742

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrAnarchris I am certainly a wonder, but with considerably more than 90 days.

@MrAnarchris

4 жыл бұрын

@@kazkazimierz1742 Could be, I guess, lots of people with time in AA are very spiritual, that's why they call people names.

I also suffered from a mental illness all my life. I felt when I screwed up so many times, but was going through grief non expressed. I had some abuse and pretended to understand.

What a “lovely” piece! No, no, I mean it! Finally a bona fide atheist, thank you! I enjoyed listening immensely. Hats off to you! 😊

Sober 35 years this year. Wanna know the secret to long term sobriety? It's simple. DON'T PICK UP THE FIRST DRINK. After 30 years in AA I can say that Steps and Big Books are a total waste of time.

@leegrace2018

3 жыл бұрын

Lol. 35 years sober, 30 of it in aa now it was a waste of time. Sounds like ur a success. Even now ur not in aa, aa is in you

@NoiseGrinder

3 жыл бұрын

@@leegrace2018 Er no. AA is not in me, and I am not in AA. I am the success and it had nothing to do with AA. It just took me a long time to realize that.

@kc-qs8qg

2 жыл бұрын

@@NoiseGrinder exactly - well done on becoming free from this nonsense quack cult

@richardkerr6091

2 жыл бұрын

Well I’m glad for you it’s very possible that you did have a problem with drinking but let’s talk about the real alcoholic maybe you were not one of those

@petemcc152

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardkerr6091 It is also very very possible that you are being disingenuous and don't know what the fuck you are talking about. You are glad for Phoebe? I doubt that, otherwise you would not have tried to rubbish her post here. I have no doubt that you do not know Phoebe, you do not know her drinking story, you know virtually nothing about her, yet you talk about her not being a "real" alcoholic. Your type of argument is known as the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Look it up and educate yourself with something. You big book clowns are so predictable. Maybe you have a lot more to learn.

It's a program full of contradictory Bs and hypocrisy. Thank me I never got immersed in it, otherwise I'd end up like the old heads that can't seem to make any choice or handle even basic life problems without having to "work the steps" or pray to my higher power. I got so much of my life back (license reinstated, car driveable, a good job etc) and I didn't pray for ANY of it.

AA is a religion in denial.

@ivi7792

4 жыл бұрын

Haha

Thank you so much for your video.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

thanks for listening.

FundaMENTALism - the noun which also contains a diagnosis.

@petemcc152

2 жыл бұрын

@Juandiego Blah blah blah.

@Snow-wz6eu

Жыл бұрын

hahah! Good one!

When you have rooms full of drunks and junkies you have failure

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, but recovery is about setting goals for putting our lives back together and making some meaningful change. Hopefully, out of failure people can come together to share experiences and support one another in their recovery. Although groups may become dysfunctional, there is still real value in peer support.

Very astute comments. Thank you.

The dry drunk is this book and the way it programs your mind to repeat the same things lol

@Snow-wz6eu

Жыл бұрын

Bill W really was a crazy sicko. Ramblings in the 12 x 12 is just him seeing his "program" not working and going on and on about it being other people's fault (your fault).

The founders of AA rejected Jesus Christ and the Bible ......thank you Lord that I have not.....

@ndrthrdr1

5 жыл бұрын

You worship a dead Jewish cult leader.

@christianhippie711

3 жыл бұрын

@@ndrthrdr1 Jesus is LORD and He is very much alive. He died for you, you know! you should believe that and be saved ☺

@christianhippie711

3 жыл бұрын

@@markduncan8227 sucks to suck 🤷‍♀️

Great channel!New sub.

There is a great video by a psychologist citing a study that long-term AA people have changed brains when it comes to triggers to drinking. That shows that the program works. There are a lot of people that are stuck in the program that don't really belong there, people that have been pigeonholed as dual diagnosis, half mental illness with half a enjoyment of intoxicants. The human race enjoys intoxicants and many different lands and to do that does not necessarily mean one is an addict. Real alcoholics are different than real marijuana addicts or real hard drug addicts. When alcoholics relapse it can often be a deadly thing, but when a marijuana addict relapses on alcohol thinking that he is an alcoholic because he goes to aa, he probably ends up having a different experience with the relapse.

Never did I read in this book, - Allah, Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, it stated God, implying some kind of Higher Power, King Alcohol is another Power. Anything good is bound to be critiqued, - I know from where I come, and I know that this process has allowed me a multitude of miracles beyond my own comprehension. Hell, I have a full closet of clothes that have never been puked on, just for one. Anyway into my 42nd year in sobriety and beyond.

AA is so far from "Live and Let Live" it's not even humorous

@niall441

5 жыл бұрын

Whats in there is insane 5yr old babies and there full of fucking shit!

@mikew3625

5 жыл бұрын

if someone in AA decides they don't like the way you walk or talk (old timer usually)...they just start a fake rumor about you and then spread it...people who used to talk to you and call you...suddenly no longer speak to you and "wall" you out (ya don't even know whats wrong)....really super common and people complain about it a lot...drives people away for good to get sober with another method that is supportive

@niall441

5 жыл бұрын

Johnny Groovy Don't club into AA.

@1HelloBaby1

5 жыл бұрын

So True.. 7 Years in AA sober, the program is Full up of Narcissistic men, and silly me ends up being engaged to 1 of them. week's away from marriage. Will i dodged that bullet. But did relapse. He's also full of demonic spirits himself. They are crazy. It's really sad. Jesus Christ come soon.

@bd048

4 жыл бұрын

@@mikew3625 Why would that be a problem. I prefer to stay on the outer edge of AA when I go at all.

I think nearly everyone in this comment section misunderstood this.

aa teaches people to like aa for the sake of aa. my local meeting sucks. cliques. cigar smokin poker playing stereotypical manly men bragging about their sales or trade job they got. while perving out having dysfunctional marriages. they will psychologically abuse the newcomers. i hate them so much...

@Snow-wz6eu

Жыл бұрын

It's sooooo toxic.

How can I find the written version of this story? The one on the website isn't loading for me.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

Жыл бұрын

All of the articles from the old AA Beyond Belief website were moved to aasecular.org and are in the News & Information section. Unfortunately, the stories aren't catalogued and the search feature on that site doesn't work very well, but that is where the story is located.

@yxllxh6377

Жыл бұрын

@@BeyondBeliefSobriety Cool, thanks so much! I'm poking around on the website now. I'm not seeing it on the "News & Info" section but I'll keep looking. This is valuable stuff. I was a "hardline" AA member for 7+ years and had to move to mainstream AA (aka "watered down") so I didn't relapse!

‘Seems to me AA is the perfect example of ‘the cure being worse than the disease.’

I never saw him drunk but he always had that damn smile on his face.. 🙂

It's a design for living!

A false gospel.?? OK..I know thee gospels of the Bible.. I've read the spiritual format, pricipals, and behavioral aspects of AA and have come to embrace the original gospels as put forth by the apostles. None of my endeavors were my choice. I was pushed into AA by "the system" and others. I stopped AA after I found that I actually :wanted: to drink after attending an AA meeting. I tried church..I walked up the aisle to the front and said "The Sinners Prayer" but was drinking shortly thereafter. Later on I was "encouraged" to leave the churchianity movement. The church people were right inasmuch as it truly is NOT in my culture and tradition. I can understand how they thought I was mocking them when I joined them in their Sunday morning rituals. By default, ALL I had left was the gospels and my own human brain. It is these two God givens that has been keeping me sober for the past 11 years. YMMV

@ryanbyrne259

5 жыл бұрын

Wel done pal

@thisisgettingold

2 жыл бұрын

It's hilarious that you can detect the bullshit in the cult of AA but not the cult of Christianity. It's the classic "one less god" argument. You are skeptical about and an atheist in regards to all gods, except the one you choose, just happens to be Christian... The same logic that led you out of AA somehow doesn't apply in your mind (although it actually applies 100%) to your own personal definition of God that you happen the place under the Christian umbrella.

The Big Book is written for narcissistic men in the 1930s

@johnmcdermott8523

Ай бұрын

Bill may very well have had NPD. BB was written 41 years before NPD was first recognized by inclusion in DSM in 1980.

While much of this history of AA is correct, I am reminded that 'text without context is pretext'. I completely disagree with the presuppositions that assume you knew the motivation and the details of how many of these conclusions were achieved. However, I appreciate that you don't just sit and complain about AA but rather you do offer another program that might be of help to some alcoholics who are unable to surrender to a power greater than themselves. AA has worked for me for 47 years so far and has given me a wonderful life. For that I thank my God.

@ndrthrdr1

5 жыл бұрын

I thank myself for every sober day.

@thisisgettingold

2 жыл бұрын

The BITE model of cult mind control fits with AA perfectly. If you can "give yourself completely to the simple program", which means to become a mindless drone that parrots (literally) the same shit from the Big Book and their sponsor over and over ad infinitum, and if you can come to believe you cannot trust your own thinking ever, at all, even a little, and if you can be afraid enough that your next drink might drive you to jails, institutions, or death, AA will work perfectly for you. If you have reservations that won't go away you are an "unfortunate soul" that was "born that way" and if you should decide to step away from the "herd" and out of the echo chamber of the rooms you will be shunned and disregarded and they will say the same thing they say about every single person than can't make AA work for them. You weren't willing to be honest, you used self-will, you are an egomaniac, and you will, in their mind, 100% drink again and go insane again if you drink a drop of alcohol. The speakers all literally say the same shit. The leaders of groups are articulate, intelligent, and dogmatic to a point of calling AA doctrine gospel truth. It is a cult. If you are susceptible to or inclined to enjoy brainwashing, AA is for you. If you want to embrace your newly restored thinking abilities, if you want to take your personal power back from the addict you that stole it, if you (and I don't say you to the OP, he is an AA zombie and there is absolutely nothing I can say to change his AA fundamentalism or evidence I can show to prove AA is fairly ineffective as a whole) cannot accept or have a hard time with spirituality or a higher power, read The Freedom Model, and This Naked Mind. If you need to be deprogrammed from AA the above books work on addition to The Sober Truth. 80% of all addicts recover, just not "the real alcoholics" that go to AA. And no matter what the rooms try to tell you, you do get to choose whether you are one of the 80% that recover or the 3-5% of "true alcoholics* that last in AA.

In the Big Book the word "must" is used 57 times. The recovery rate during the early days of sobriety was extremely high when compared today. The fellowship has changed over time with the introduction of pop-psychology, new age philosophy , and secular humanism, which have eroded the timeless spiritual principles that early AA's practiced, hence the high recovery rate. The fellowship has changed, thank God that the program hasn't.

@843andrew

10 ай бұрын

That high revovery rate that you site is based on what science?

@markdellacqua1038

10 ай бұрын

The high recovery recovery rate rate is based on God, not science. If you want numbers read the AA literature, like Dr. Bob and the good old timers.

@mariaquiet6211

8 ай бұрын

@@markdellacqua1038 so, nothing.

Also recovery and church and therapy also help

I have been going to AA for 26 years, I have been sober that whole time. My experience has been overwhelming positive and my life has been greatly improved. I have meet plenty of AA members that I don’t find helpful at all, they have given me examples of what I don’t want. The God part. I welcome a “God” in my life. My life before sobriety was hopeless and a belief in God continues to be my strength and source of wisdom. I don’t argue with people who knock AA, or debate the existence of God, everyone is entitled to their own thinking. Not drinking is the soul purpose of AA as I know it. Most who are lead to sobriety in the AA scene are those who have tried everything else, AA is often the last house on the block for many. Agnostics are fun, they know so much. I was never helped however by any agnostic because they were too busy listening to themselves to hear me.

@gorillagodzilla8138

3 жыл бұрын

George you could be delusional

@faceinthecrowd5810

3 жыл бұрын

@@gorillagodzilla8138 we all live in our own minds. I’m good with mine.

@gorillagodzilla8138

3 жыл бұрын

@@faceinthecrowd5810 This is how I help newcomers.... Let me explain how AA works.. Alot of members love licking their own nut's.. alot of narcissisim.. everything your trying to get away from is in the rooms.. toxic.. poisonous.. egotistical control freaks.. defects of character every angle.. sick people trying to get well 🤕🤕🤕.. First of all you get sober and start feeling good about yourself.. you go to an AA meeting where everybody grows this I'm more sober and better then U attitude and start talking like they know it all.. Basically.. I'd strongly advise you to look for other things to do to keep yourself busy.. If you want to keep clean and sober cut the people out of your life that drink or drug for a while so you can adjust to your new lifestyle.. Start living life.. start catching up on things your missed out on for so many years.. there's heaps to do like walks.. swim.. gym.. sight seeing.. mountain climbing.. driving.. fishing.. spending time with family.. holidays.. beach.. read.. social media time.. breakfast.. lunch.. dinner.. make sure to have plenty of rest.. sleep well.. eat well.. and give yourself alone time also.. learn to organise your life.. pick and choose who and what you want in it.. take back control.. keep busy busy busy.. You can do it.. You don't need to be sitting in some sad ass AA meeting listening to dickheads tell their problems to you.. work on yourself and stay strong and positive attitude mindset... ✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️

@movingforward.

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for being there . We will save some seats

@davidjohn8795

3 жыл бұрын

@@gorillagodzilla8138 what happens if you get sober and you dont start feeling good about yourself and no matter how many hobbies interests and activities you do it just doesn't make you feel anybetter about yourself n your life,

If u have not heard of Monica step 13...If u r criticizing offer others choices.

Anything works if you work it main word being you once your ready you will do what it is your trying to I agree not easily the power of the program is the fellowship until they go all fundamental and start the whole who's recovering better then who I've been around many years and seen it all people who recover with the book without the book sponsor no sponsor if you Google it you'll see the percentage of people who recovered with absolutely no outside help is quite high, I'm not so fortunate but then again I've been force fed the program since 13 wasn't until I shed my powerlessness and took responsibility for my self and actions instead of blindly following a program that people rarely failed that I began to prosper in life and not just in the area of not using I cant find a place where I can fellowship without the dogma so I endure the shenanigans !!

As a sober member for the last thirty three years, and an athiest for a lot longer, I find this bible bullshit ridiculous in the extreme

@tomlund4951

5 жыл бұрын

We all have life within us ... as long as there is life there is hope... believe anything you want and spread that fact with others and you can’t go wrong.

@tomlund4951

5 жыл бұрын

George L If this guy is sober and helping the new guy... what do ya call that???

@paulbangash4317

5 жыл бұрын

George L the creep is busy unloading and denigrating here also

Wow why is this happening did someone from a group made someone upset and the attack is on. I have 38 yrs coming from a group that’s been around 58 yrs. Whatever helps another person having a problem is a wonderful thing to see be it addiction from alcohol or other issues. I find this strange to believe these attacks and discrediting awful.

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

It's been a while since I read this article or listened to the audio, so I am not familiar with what it was that you found strange. However, I find all the inter-AA arguments to be just plain silly and honestly quite rare. Most people in AA pretty much practice the principle of "live and let live." Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment.

@mariaquiet6211

8 ай бұрын

If you have 38 years and can't comprehend why people leave, find the steps unworkable, toxic, dangerous, then you're either not listening or just plain lying.

The 5 things AA gets right: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nnWZ1bp8qLPJgZs.html

bobby k if you quit drinking maybe youll get sober

When you have to resort to name calling and abusive text, it show's precisely how immature and insecure you really are. You know nothing about me, but I can assure you I am not a failure in any area of my life, in fact, the very opposite is true. I am very successful in business and far more importantly, very successful in personal relationships.

@bipolarexpress9827

4 жыл бұрын

Pat Ryan thanks Ryan. Thanks for letting us know how successful you are in a frivolous KZread comment.

@MrAnarchris

4 жыл бұрын

if what you say is true, why is president trump pretending to be pat ryan?

@thisisgettingold

2 жыл бұрын

Problem is, a bunch of REAL alcoholics also get clean and find success in life without what you would call "the only solution". Enjoy your tiny little world.

I agree with so much you say. But I am learning about the real Bible. If u are an atheist..please are u a believer?

AA is a religion,

Hmm. I feel some of the comments seem to have missed the A.A. message of recovery. Conflict is what I came to A.A. with. Personal recovery came with personal sobriety. I wish to make a comment on personal believe. God, G.O.D. (Got of drink.) God, G.O.D. (Good orderly Direction.) God. As you find him in your ( Personal Recovery.)

@georgepramble928

10 ай бұрын

I forgot to mention, I am 50 years in continuous sobriety. I am the last member of the original ONE group available at that time in 1973. I sincerely wish everyone who comes to A.A. to accept their recovery.

In Clarendon,TX to a newcomer they will say "AA helps your church life" ! They will say this to a person who has 1 day or less ! It is funnier than watching midgets run tracks, no wonder We Agnostics are growing ! AA is the same WWE, it is a "work" !

Im getting plenty of giggles hearing this. Funny - i can understand both sides but i cant support either one against the other. It somehow doesnt matter anymore to me. I do enjoy the atheists most, due to their good sense of humour.

And God saw everything he had made and behold it was meh....

Works for some, not for others. Unless you got something better, and I mean better for the masses, not just yourself, then you have nothing but a critique of a program that has saved tens/hundreds of thousands.

I think we should be looking at the "fundamentalism" in Secular A.A. before pointing the finger of blame too much.

@petemcc152

2 жыл бұрын

Who are "we" and what "fundamentalism" are you on about? Nice deflection but it fails at the first hurdle.

This person seems to be a garden variety terminally hip and fatally cool focusing on our differences rather than our similarities!

Outrageously funny truth!

As doesn’t work for everyone but for untold thousands it does,get over it

According to bill Wilson in the forward to the second edition in 1955 the recovery rate was 75%. I don’t think he was lying. What I’ve seen is that people who do what’s in the book get and stay sober .. I’ve been sober 41 years. When I came into AA the recovery rate I was told was one out of 37 makes it. I’m glad I at least read the book right away. Took me a long time to actually do it as simply outlined in our text . Buried a lot of friends along the way . Hank Pankhurst the atheist started my first home group in south orange in 1939 % he started drinking in 1940 or 41 and never got sober again

@BeyondBeliefSobriety

2 жыл бұрын

Jim Burwell one of the original members and also an atheist, died sober and outlived both Bill and Bob. We have no idea what the success rates were or are for AA, which is fine.

AA has changed more alcoholic lives for the better than all other therapies / treatment programs in the history of mankind combined - A Wholesale Miracle...

As WWE I mean, I like the Esoteric God ! The All !

aa is also live and let live this is something u get with time for sure is you experienced under a year you only a your perspective bu with time it those get better you guys should read the doctrine of many aspect like tradition and am not talking about the 12 and 12 but article that general service publishes and you will have a better ideal of the all before talk i don't do aa today so am not a pro aa

You know what's been really eating away at me is... why? There's no financial incentive to keep preaching aggressive fundamentalism. I suppose there's a small amount of "power" to be gained in the rooms but it doesn't look like much to me. Why does some cult-like behaviour exist in AA with hardly any motive?

@katherinechase3674

3 жыл бұрын

For some people a little self righteousness goes a long way!

@thisisgettingold

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very specific personality type that AA works for.

@Snow-wz6eu

Жыл бұрын

Power. Anywhere they can have it. Narcissism.

@blondequijote

Жыл бұрын

Religion works on the same part of the brain as drugs do. Pll replace their drug of choice for this God stuff.

AA IS A fellowship. Not a cult.

@kazkazimierz1742

5 жыл бұрын

AA is very diverse. There are groups that are pretty cult-like.

@illegitiminoncarborundum115

Жыл бұрын

Full of favoritism and cliques.

AA is a pysop.

NO THANKS

AA is about accepting personal responsibility, making restitution for wrongdoing and living by spiritual principles, the vast majority of members fail to see that, for the most part, they just stop drinking, turn into dry drunks and hope all will be well.

@patryan6615

5 жыл бұрын

@James Boyd of course, you are now doing what you accuse me of, namely being Judgemental, another concept most people simply don't understand.... I made a value judgment based on my own long experience, however, I make no moral judgment of anyone.

@paulbangash4317

5 жыл бұрын

Pat Ryan no , you are a sadistic failure whos only way of elevating your pathetic self is to denegrate the journey of others. You fucking creep.

@kevphillips02

5 жыл бұрын

Pat Ryan In your judgemental opinion .

@kevphillips02

5 жыл бұрын

Pat Ryan So what you are really saying is you are doing it properly and on the whole the rest of them are not . What I suggest is patting yourself on the back and offering some tolerance as opposed to judgement and criticism . As you know all the sayings , live and let live , who am I to judge and when I point the finger ....,..

@Marinus_Calamari

5 жыл бұрын

The "dry drunk" is an imaginative person, that only exists in the mind of AA people to solve the cognitive dissonance that exists between their belief that "AA is the only way", and a reality where the great majority of people who stop drinking/drugging do so without AA.

You boxos take yourself too serious. The only way to have a spiritual experience is to elevate your consciousness. To where God is. In you. The mind and ego are useless.

@ndrthrdr1

5 жыл бұрын

Gods are imaginary.

atheist alcoholic coping 😂

Yup, AA works when you work it. I'm just saying the facts are the facts. There's a way out is good news for someone thats drinking themselves to death, very good news. I recommend reading the big book before a drunken death.

@karma2236

6 жыл бұрын

But it's a cunning baffling and powerful disease which has such a grip on the sufferer. How compassionate man, is it such a simple concept?

@gmtmaster01

5 жыл бұрын

Ooohh a drunken death, how dramatic and typical of your ilk.

@valentinowerahiko1084

5 жыл бұрын

Not as much as your ilk

@gmtmaster01

5 жыл бұрын

@@valentinowerahiko1084ah, such a sensitive member..

@thechitownclown8972

5 жыл бұрын

First of all, it does not work if you work it. I "worked it" seven different times over the past 20 years and guess what, if I relapsed I did it wrong. Tell me, how the fuck did I do it wrong by following the directions out of the book with the guidance of a sponsor? Then those same people who are supposed to be there for you give that look, and you know what im talking about. That look like you are the biggest piece of shit. And they cast you out, or at least they make you feel like that. AA is estimated to be statistically the worst way to try to get clean. I saw people come and go everyday. Most people in AA only drank or drugged for a couple years before they got clean. In all my years in AA never did I see someone with a 20 or 30 year habit get clean. Try getting clean after that long and you tell me how good AA works. And at the end of the day AA is not affiliated with any particular religious sect. It is affiliated with ALL religion. AA has its roots in religion starting with the Oxford group. And at the end of the day im sure Bill Wilson and Dr Bob and Bill D and all the others were sucking the porcelain dick of Jesus. Tell me im wrong about all this.

A rather feeble attempt by the author to transform his personal beliefs into a movement. We don't come around to debate Theosophy, most of us attend AA in a desperate attempt to save our lives, and it works!

@taunoctua245

5 жыл бұрын

Not if you trash other people's path, which is what these former agnostics/christians/jews did to me.

@SeanMcNerney

5 жыл бұрын

Bailey. yeah this guy's a real dick. I don't like AA but I respect it. It's done alot of good. AA doesn't even talk about religion much , at the meeting s.

@helderpatricio8339

4 жыл бұрын

@James Boyd , my experience in AA has been very, very different to the one you are describing. The AA that I have seen described in your comment and the comments of others, is not even close to the reality of the program, as I have experienced it: I am free to make my own decisions of how I will do my program. The group offers suggestions and recommendations, like attending regular frequent meetings, getting a good sponsor that can guide you through the 12 steps and working the program to the best of your ability. I'm from Australia, so maybe things are done a bit different here than in the US, but not once have I been browbeaten or bullied while attending meetings. From the meetings, I take what I can use and I leave the rest. The thing that might keep me sober may be the thing that will make you drink. There isn't a surefire path in AA, a one size fits all solution. People need to tailor make the program to suit their own needs. I have been a member for roughly 2 years, and in that time i have seen people who attend 7-8 meetings a week and some who attend 1. What matters is the level of spiritual fitness, of having a mental defense against the first drink. Some have more than others. I also know people who have been in AA for many years. That doesn't mean I would want even an ounce of their sobriety. There are those that like to preach and talk down to others. To those I give a wide berth. I am not a bad person trying to be good. I am a sick person trying to get well. I have to find my own way. There are many paths to sobriety. AA is one of them. It may not work for everyone, but it has worked for me. You refered to the program as a "religious program". It is a spiritual program. It is a program for enlarging your spiritual life, for making connection with a power greater than myself, on which I can draw strength and request help in dealing with life's ups and downs, without having to resort to picking up a drink. Where the program excels, is that this higher power is one of your own conception. Some may believe in God, Buddha, Allah, etc, while others believe in a Creative force of the universe, whatever will help, as long as it is power greater than myself. Some even draw strength for the AA groups themselves, using them as a higher power. My life has changed since I found AA. I was able to let go of the wreckage of the past, the guilt and remorse, the resentments I felt in my life. Everything that ever happened was always someone else's fault. I let go of the self pity that pervaded my life and just learned to accept people for who they are, not how I would like them to be. I had to give up control of those around me, focusing more on trying to change myself and my attitudes, rather than trying to change those around me, to suit my needs.I had to let go of selfishness and my self serving behaviour and learn to do for others without expecting anything in return. Most importantly, I had to learn to listen, really listen... Feel free to reply if you would like to continue the discussion... Cheers

@achach5055

3 жыл бұрын

@@helderpatricio8339 hows AA going?

@helderpatricio8339

3 жыл бұрын

@@achach5055 not sure if we have corresponded before, but AA is still doing well for me. I am still sober, one day at a time. Will be close to 3 years since my last drink. No desire to go back...