Next, check out my aerodynamics video for touring and bikepacking bikes! 🚲💨 I have pulled together lots of studies to help us understand what makes the most efficient setup: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h5mTttxwlZOqnag.html

@NeoFrontierTechnologies

Жыл бұрын

Hi, someone is imitating you on your channel. Look at the comment made on my comment. It is someone imitating you...

Commenting as somebody who rode the TD this year: Yes, drop bars were noticeably faster on the smooth gravel and pavement. Yet, I was pretty grateful to have flat bars for some of the rougher terrain, especially when it was raining and muddy. There were a few riders on rigid drop-bar bikes without great bike handling skills who struggled at times on the rough stuff. So, I wouldn't choose drop bars unless I were confident in my bike handling skills. And worth remembering that both this year's winner, Sofiane Sehili, and record holder Mike Hall (in 2016) chose flat bars. Also, given that 2/3 of the starters either didn't finish, alternated from the route, or didn't ride fast enough to not be relegated to the 'touring' category, I'd be highly interested in what bikes the race finishers rode, rather than what the starters rode. If I had chosen a drop-bar bike, I absolutely wouldn't have chosen any other model than the Salsa Cutthroat. It's popular with very good reason. Try riding some of these rigid drop-bar bikes over rough gravel back-to-back and you'll notice how beautifully the Cutthroat handles the rough stuff compared to most. It's an incredibly compliant design and also has so many wonderful design touches, such as the abrasion plates inside the front fork. As for tyres, I personally saw a lot more of the Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge tyres out there than Ikons, but that's anecdotal. I'd have been happy with Mezcals, Fleecer Ridge, or Ikons/Rekons. Mezcals were the quickest but also get pretty worn out by the end. Ikons were the toughest and most durable but slowest and heaviest. Fleecer Ridge sits in the middle as an all-rounder, and are what I used and winner Sofiane Sehili used. I went with the new Silca Ultimate Tubeless sealant and was one of the few who never flatted nor needed to even use a tyre plug. So, this was a very solid combination of tyre and sealant for me. The Conti Race Kings that I saw others using wore out the very limited centre tread by the end more extensively than any other tyre. Yes, Mike Hall used them to set the record and they're undoubtedly a fast tyre, but he was also a light rider on a light bike who would have worn out his tyres more slowly. And 2016 saw very good conditions. I personally was glad not to have chosen them given the snowy and muddy conditions we had this year. (Also, I've personally used Conti Cross Kings with the same compound before and found them to be a fast-wearing tyre, too.) With regards to forks, I heard more than a few people complain about their rigid setups being too rough (usually not on Cutthroats). You can ride rigid but you need to make sure the bike has some seriously decent compliance built in. I know of one rigid titanium fork that broke, one Lauf fork that broke, and one suspension fork that broke. However, I also know of a few other people on suspension forks whose forks had issues and wound up either stuck in open or locked-out mode. I used a Lauf fork, which definitely helped to take the edge off the rough stuff and was maintenance-free, but certainly came with both an aero and an efficiency penalty in certain conditions. I'd possibly consider a rigid fork with a suspension stem next time. Not sure a full-suspension seat post is necessary when there are some tough and compliant carbon seat posts that really do smooth out the bumps pretty well. But perhaps it was more necessary for the full-rigid setups. (Some people were also afraid of using carbon for seat posts and handlebars given concerns about how tough they are. However, I personally only heard of one carbon component that broke--a front wheel.) An additional comment about bags: You can take a reasonably aero bike (for an MTB) like a Cutthroat and slow it down immensely with a poor bag setup. It's been said that nobody has set a record on the Divide with anything attached to their fork legs for this reason. Minimising the frontal area of the bike with a good bag setup is part and parcel of any bikepacking rig.

@ethanboswell2572

Жыл бұрын

That was a great write up. On the topic of carbon components breaking, my dad rode it this year on a Cutthroat and his carbon drop bars snapped before Whitefish.

@sdilizio

Жыл бұрын

@@ethanboswell2572 Oh no! I guess if I count the Lauf fork that I heard broke, that now makes three carbon breakages I know of.

@lenolenoleno

Жыл бұрын

This is an excellent bit of insight. Thank you for the write up! I particularly like your point regarding finishers bikes vs. non-finisher's bikes and comments on tyre choice.

@robgrubb420

Жыл бұрын

you are the man for posting this.

@sdilizio

Жыл бұрын

To add one more comment about the Continental Race King Protection. They updated this tyre since Mike Hall set his record on them. In tests by Bicycle Rolling Resistance, the new tyre isn't as great with puncture protection as the old one, and I think the issues of tread durability are with the new compound, too.

I so love they way that you systematically analyze these bicycle related questions instead of just speculating wildly like most other bike "experts". Thanks for what you do, you hold a really unique and important space in this bike media landscape! :)

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

Mate, your channel is absolute gold. I got so excited when you said how many bikes you were gonna compare and all the stats you were breaking down. Love the bike nerdery ❤️

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a tonne!

The most important thing I learnt from this video? Alee has a lot of napkins and is bloody good at doing math on them!

You did exactly what I was hoping you’d do at the end with the “average” bike. Do you think you would/could do an analysis of the same bikes but focusing on their bag setups and what everyone is carrying?

On the Clip in Pedals: As someone who attempted to ride the divide this year (and had to scratch); I use clip ins to keep my feet in the correct spot and keep my knees tracking correctly to prevent injury over those 12 hour days.

@Jacksparrow4986

Жыл бұрын

You sound like the typical ergon pedal customer ;-)

@ZenEndurance

Жыл бұрын

How much of the course is technical mountain biking? Or is it pretty much all gravel road? I wear clipless when gravel biking but flats when mountain biking so I can step off easier when things get technical.

@richardkim8220

Жыл бұрын

This is the answer I was looking for. I didn't attempt the Tour Divide, but I just spent 24.5 hours on my bike during a 600km Brevet. Keeping my feet in exactly the same position with my knees tracking correctly definitely helped prevent overuse injury. I discovered other bike fit issues about 470km in, but that wasn't one of them.

This was the video I didn't know I needed to watch until I watched it! I had seen those two articles and wanted to do some sort of analysis on the whole set of bikes. Yours was excellent and saved me hours!

You have done another huge research that will help a lot of riders. Thanks for all the effort and wishing you happy rides! Greetings from Ireland!!! : )

Nice breakdown of the various types of bikes being used. After the extreme weather conditions encountered so far this year by a large portion of the pack I hope the riders and organizers have a serious after action critique. There seems there could be lots of lessons learned by everyone.

This absolutely answered my questions about what people run. Thanks for going through all of them and laying the facts out. Well done!

Yet another masterful analysis. Thanks @Cyclingabout!

Masterful analysis.. I'd like to go on some long bike packing trips one day and these videos will surely help me setup my rig. Bookmarked! Thanks!

Spot-on, as always. Your content really shines! I use the Conti Race King in 27.5", 2.2" wide on my electric commuter hardtail, with the prevalant surface being road and some forest. While they are very quite, with low rolling resistance and very good grip for their profile, they have two setbacks. First, I have never ever encountered a tire so reluctant to get on the rim. It took over half an hour per tire to fit, using several vices, lots of soap and a small injury. Second, to my surprise, they wear out rather quickly. I was surprised to hear that someone got TWO tour divides out of a set. Mine have lost quite a bit of profile and are becoming slightly porous on the walls, after about three years and 6,000 km.

Great roundup! Thanks!

Who’s that handsome bearded fella that keeps popping up?! 😉 Great video though Alee! Sorry to have not caught you in Melb while you’re back. Interesting note: Josh Kato (2015) is the only rider to win the TD on drop bars. Although Jay P did set an course record (2014 or 13 I think) on drops too. But all other wins and notable times including the women’s record and SS record have been on flat bars.

Great to see all the images of the fully decked out rigs! Cool video.

This is a wonderfully concise, thorough, and useful summary! Thanks!

Thank you alot !!! This video contains priceless informations, people should appreciate more for this man

Your analysis is so informative and inclusive! Salsa is really nice bike. Have not ridden the cutthroat, but the Fargo with carbon fork was amazing!

Great vid! Love this innovative category. Thank you!!

As usual, your presentation was brilliant and full of sound judgment. In previous comparisons between derailleur drivetrains and internal gear hubs, like Rohloff, you and many others have pointed out that internal gear hubs perform to their full efficiency regardless of their environment whereas exposed mech does not. On the Tour Divide dirt, grime, mud etc. are constant companions and lower the top efficiency drivetrains are known for. I had no idea of the products Ratio Technology offers. I checked out their website and found items innovative and useful. Thanks for blazing the information trail here. When you mentioned hydraulic brakes, I assume that is disc, not rim? Suspension forks: the benefits will vary with terrain. When things are rough, grateful they’re there, going up hill, wish were elsewhere. One has to decide over the course of the course, whether the challenge of hills or the paths that are coarse, cause the greatest fatigue and the most use of force. My guess is that comparing results over time may be indicative. Inductive over deductive methodology. Your final conflation of a prototypical Tour Divide bike was another typical and ingenious Dehham moment. What a great capstone. Bravo.

@cjohnson3836

Жыл бұрын

I think if it were a shorter race, more people would be on suspension forks. Cutthroat is technically a mountain bike and has the appropriate head tube to run modern susp forks (even before the "gravel" susp became a thing). The course is generally rated as pretty mild in terms of technicality, its just long so people are optimizing for the climbs is my guess.

@RobinCapper

Жыл бұрын

Agree, peak performance of chain drivetrain would be hard to maintain given the time pressures and conditions. Watching one rider tackling 'peanut butter mud' and suspect a box/belt drive would fare far better.

@cjohnson3836

Жыл бұрын

@@RobinCapper Any mud that gums up a drive is going to cake your tires and have you walking far sooner. No one is going to use overweight gearboxes in a race. For not the least of which, you can't fit a gearbox in a carbon frame. And if you're racing competitively, you're riding a carbon frame. People need to get off this idea.

So glad I have subscribed to your channel!

Great info and summary of the ideal bike setup.

Straight forward info. Never wrong. My mind did not wander, got tips on a lot- especially tires, and just enjoyed the video start to finish.

Great breakdown! I dig the background music, too!

Absolutely fascinating. I love biking but know very little about such races, or even long rides, although to be honest, I use my dept. store bikes as ATV's, so your video is superb. My road bike is a Browning that I bought in the 70's and used as a camping bike. My mountain bikes are bigbox store bought. One weighs 45 lbs with a steel frame and has never busted over 30 years of riding it, with no suspension. The other is Al framed with dual suspension, but was a gift, and is actually too small for me but I keep it anyways. The optimum bike for a race like this, as you described, would be hellish expensive I surmise, but I could trade all of my bikes in on just one, I suppose. Your video conjured up some pleasant dreams.

Extremely informative video !!! well done ...and thank you !!!

Wow…epic ride and some utterly epic bikes. Thanks.

Very well presented, thank you.

I raced on the Specialized Epic Hardtail S-Works shown at 12:00 with a Rockshox SID SL Ultimate Brain fork and slightly wider than average 2.3" tires. There were plenty of rough sections on the route where I was super happy to have suspension, and the carbon rims and lightweight frame easily made up for the weight penalty of the fork. I was definitely less fatigued than I would have been with a rigid fork, as there were times when the suspension stopped working when the stanchions got caked with mud and my upper body got significantly more tired.

@christophelautrette451

Жыл бұрын

thank you for that comment ! i haven't yet ride the Great Divide but bought myself a Cutthroat with front suspensions ...and was debating if it was a good idea . you just confirmed ! as far as Specialized , i crossed Mexico to Guatemala with my Specialized with no issues what so ever ! so ...good choice :)cheers !!

Absolutely FANTASTIC CONTENT !

I am new to your channel and am totally in awe of the trips you do. I just watched “Cycling Southern Patagonia” My own experience on bikes is riding 17km each way to work and back which I have done for 12 years. This is just enough to comprehend the daunting conditions you overcome. Seeing what you do prompted me to buy an 11-speed hub gear. If it handles what you do? I will be using it when I retire! Fantastic 🍺🙂👍

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

Great to hear! Enjoy that Alfine hub - hopefully, it lasts as long as you expect.

Great work man. Thank you

Great analysis Allee!

Excellent video. Please keep doing it

Very interesting! Thank you 🙂

This is really great analysis!!

excellent video, thank you.

The best bike channel period !

Great vid. Thank you

Really cool video!

Great vid! Thank you very much!

Great job with the analysis

Awesome content! Wireless was the bigesst suprise.personaly. 👍

thank you for the amazing introduction.

Great info mate loved it 🇦🇺

interesting analysis, thanks!

Excellent video!

thumbs up for pointing out that tires are so important.

And yes.. It's all about personal preference,, Thank you for the all package info

Great vid, super interesting to see what the go-to tech is in this proving ground.

Great video! 👍

i love nerding out on these videos

Very informative so much information.

Top info as usual !

Awesome summary!

Great content!

Loved this!

Great video. I'm planning out a build to take on the divide in '23. One thing I'll be doing you didn't discuss is a suspension stem, likely a redshift. Also will be running a dynamo like most on the tour

@bertnerny

Жыл бұрын

I had thoughts of suspension stems going through my head while watching the video but wasn’t sure if there were any being made currently. Good to know there are.

Phenomenal video!!!

I tried to get the Race Kings, but they were completely out of stock for me, so I went with the Ikons. It may just simply be a supply chain issue. Love the analysis!

@mrnobody9821

Жыл бұрын

Are you looking for tubeless or tubed race kings? I fitted the 2.2's to my supercaliber with tubolitos which made the bike super lightweight but the light weight tubes made it unreliable so I went back to the XR2 set up tubeless.

Fantastic analysis and statistics. Would have loved some numbers about bikepacking bags brands too. Cheers

Just bought a gravel bike so this was really interesting to see even though the tour divide is not that big in europe it still impressive what kind of efforts people are doing there

Bought your book based on this video! Thanks

Great to see these bikes! Very inspiring! BTW,where are you know?

Great video. I would love to know more about all the different bag setups and brands chosen and why.

Super stoked about bikes.

There's something to be said about practicality over weight. GMBN demonstrated this by running a dropper post on an XC bike. Despite the extra weight, he was able to ride over rough terrain and down hills faster because of the way he could shift his weight and achieved a faster time.

Remarkable video. Could this be continued with an overview of maintenance/repair challenges during the Tour Divide? Wonder e.g. about damaged frames, spokes, clogged up drive trains etc. Surely not easy to get stats on those though.

@kai_v_k

Жыл бұрын

Ask the bike shops along the way. I was touring a bit around the Canadian border (Fernie to Heureka) and the wet grimy weather wore hard on the break pads (in Whitefish they replaced 7 sets already until 1500 on Day 4 of the tour and my pads were also shot) and today a bike shop owner in Butte told me that they are completely sold out of 10 and 11 speed chains. I don't know anything about other mechanicals though from hearsay.

Thanks! I use the Race Kings and really like them. They are barely worn after 700 miles of 50/50 gravel. And I'm definitely a suspension guy. Comfort is first and foremost at my age. I'm currently looking for my 1 and only bike and am leaning towards the Transition Spur full suspension at 24 pounds, which has a nice, big, usable front triangle and 3 bottle mounts.

From what I have read and experienced, clipless pedals really shine in standardizing your position, so you can fine tune your bike and technique precisely. And it helps to stop all kind of small movement with your feet and use of unnecessary strength that can happen with flat pedals. I have been converted to flat pedals for my commute and bikepacking, it's just much easier to have normal shoes, especially useful for bikepacking so you don't need space and weight for extra shoes. And it seem like overall performance is about the same. But to me it seem like clipless pedals do provide clear improvements that are important for sport cycling.

I wanted to try the Conti Protection too, will be my next tires. I wonder what would be your napkin number for a Lauf passive suspension. Faster because it absorbs some rocky terrain, or slower due to energy loss on flatter surfaces. Incredible that Rohloff once won a race, never knew. I bet it makes you even prouder to own one :) Quality content

@Red-ju4mi

Жыл бұрын

I thought lauf suspension doesn't do anything on flat smooth surfaces and only dampens hard hits. I can't imagine it's more energy loss than a regular sus fork

Master Bike Nerd! Well done. I would like to think that the Lauf fork would be more widely used in an event such as the Tour Divide. Does not add a lot of weight like a traditional suspension fork but works very well to minimize the road buzz and vibrations from a gravel road. Also Lauf came out with their Seigla model this year which I think is right up the Tour Divide's alley.. The Lauf fork is present, ability to fit 29x2,3 tires or at least 2,2 tires. Seat stays were lowered on the seat tube so it has more flex there than previous Lauf models. And I think also that the top end models come with Sram AXS. I know that if I would ever consider this race then the Lauf Seigla would be very high on my list.

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

The Lauf fork is intriguing as it's light and is un-damped, so it can add to the compliance of the system without robbing it of much energy. 28% of bikes with suspension had one fitted. Interestingly, I've got some data that suggests that the Lauf forks don't actually absorb more gravel road chatter than a rigid fork - the benefit is only found after bigger hits. I guess that makes sense as there is only so much 'tuning' you can do to a leaf spring to make it compliant in the first few millimetres of travel...

thanks man, have you ever done the race? great vid

wonderful video

Thx! Another hack is to mount long cage plates to a rx812 derailleur which allows for 11-46 or more, better imho than the wolftooth which affects shifting. Also you can fit 2.2inches on a cfr696 frame.

@cjohnson3836

Жыл бұрын

That's the carbonda frame yeah? Looks pretty nice and no proprietary small pieces. You have one?

You sir, are my fave bike nerd!

TWO WEEKS!!!!!! OMG, they are all legends

@GordoGambler

Жыл бұрын

Nope. They got SNOWED out. LOL hahahahaha

well i've got clipless pedals and a brooks saddle, my touring build is slowly coming together! brilliant video and as someone has already stated, you weren't speculating when you put this together!

Great bike analysis. As a rider that had to scratch this year due to lingering and then progressively worsening patellar tendonitis, it's fun to see all of the trends we TD aficionados followed this year. Looks like my English Cycles Attack Owl falls in line with most all of the current setups, minus being steel. If only my knees had followed these trends as well...

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

Congrats on your ride! As much as it sucks that your knee gave you problems, you've got to be proud of your effort. Lovely bike too!

@benhandrich

Жыл бұрын

@@Cyclingabout one addition with the tires, while I'm here: many riders were using the Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge tire this year. I'd venture to guess that it is actually the most popular tire on course, honestly. The Mezcal, Ikon, and Race King have historically been the go to tires for the Divide but I think a major shift happened for 2022.

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

@@benhandrich The data I collected was all from the Bikepacking.com article, and the Rene Herse FRs came in third (17/121). Interesting to hear there might be many more sets out there - it'd have to be 30 pairs to be more popular than the Mezcal (44/121)!

I'm a daily rider and I took them off my road bike because it made it so easy that I had to ride longer and further to get the same exercise as with normal drop bars. When racing, I use aero bars if it is allowed.

Conti Race Kings are great, no idea why more people don't use them? I used on the divide and they were perfect.

I’ve seen several riders riding by my house in the last few days. I live in MT on the route.

You're the videos are the only ones that count.

I recently sold on my suntour suspension seatpost due to the weight of the thing. I'll perhaps consider a suspension post in the the future but maybe something lighter with a small elastomer. I've got a wide rigid fork that can take very wide tyres for a 29er build I'm doing.

Would love to see a none race version of this video. For example, ride these tires and bar for comfort over these other ones that are faster.

Very good information. Would be nice to hear also, what were the fastest bikes like compared to the average.

The Cutthroat is a fantastic bike for what it is. Super happy with mine.

@Jean-jk4zv

7 ай бұрын

Same here apart they just replaced the fork and I had to wait 4 months. But it was totally free of charge. Got mine for more than two years cannot ride anything else on mixed terrains. I tried a Grizl and a Diverge but they are too close to a road bike for me. Got a full sus for gnarly things. My gf loves it despite having a Rondo Bogan but the Cutthroat full rigid bike compliance and higher than usual head tube is unbeaten actually.

awesome analysis ! as a cutty owner, I assure you this is one of the most comfy bike for long trips. I ride mezcal front and terreno back but the terrain is more forgiving here . (in the summer, terreno front and back) I think people go for mezcal because they are cheap, easy to find and really reliable, around 35$/€ usually...

@Cyclingabout

Жыл бұрын

There are a couple of versions of the Mezcal. The TLR or TNT versions are the highest performing and normally come in at US $77 each.

@Jean-jk4zv

Жыл бұрын

​@@Cyclingabout oh those prices hurt, it's almost half the price in europe :-) also I did some research with customers reviews it looks like the Conti ones (protection) have less puncture resistance, a lot of people are complaining about it and they also seem more porous by reviewers comments... I may try them nonetheless 😃

I think that clip-in pedals are not only good for acceleration but also for keeping your foot in optimal spot on the pedal all the time. When I ride my bike with platform pedals for longer period of time I often find myself forgetting about keeping my foots straight on the pedal which results in less efficient ride. With clip-in pedals you don't have to think about it as it's always in the same spot.

I just put on the Vitoria Mescal on my gravel bike. Grip and comfort is superb, rolling resistance on gravel is superb on street o.k.

Great analysis, any summary of wheelset used, Al vs carbon, hubs, spoke counts? That seems to be the final question for me in my cutty build up.

@RedShipsofSpainAgain

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, I'd love to know if more riders are using carbon vs aluminum rims. Carbons are lighter but also much more expensive.

The raceking almost only for loam and hard pack i think the ikons offers more grip than race kings. Maybe the best set up for this course are raceking back and ikon front.

Es una auténtica locura! 😮

Good analysis. Thanks. The Ergon seat that we can see in this video seems very comfortable. Any one could tell wich model is and comment something about it? Thanks a lot.

Like you I love the conti race king. They measure up very small and the largest they offer is a 2.2 ( so more like a 2.0) Conti always seem to be a bit behind the times in terms of sizing. They also struggle being made tubeless compared to other brands. I could see why someone would give up on them quite quickly

@glennoc8585

Жыл бұрын

My race sport mountain king tyres were hard to start tubeless as they leaked a lot until several rides.

@adamabbas8876

Жыл бұрын

I'm trying to get racekings to seal at the moment. Bit of a nightmare to be honest.

Thanks for the interesting video. Worth highlighting a few extra points about why wireless shifting and the use of clipless SPD vs flats. - Wireless gears - shifting is physically easier and hence less tiring on the the hands than mechanical - particularly if blips are also installed on the tops. - SPD's - aside from possible improvements in power from being able to pull up as well. Have things like the shoe-pedal combo being a bit lighter. Soles that can have chunky tread patterns that play better with mud when hike-a-biking. No pedal pins to mangle your shins. More rotational float - while at the same time being simple to achieve and hold the foot in a fixed fore-aft position relative to pedal spindle - which - if the fit is dialed in - is kinder to the achilles, knees etc and will help prevent injury.

@LastAphelion

Жыл бұрын

What is meant by "if blips are also installed on the tops", what is that?

@jonhume6051

Жыл бұрын

Hiya @@LastAphelion, Blips are SRAM's terminology for its add-on remote gear shifter buttons e.g. see kzread.info/dash/bejne/a6WOpcmcprqTmbg.html . Typically get stuck under the tape on the bar tops or on aero bar extensions so as to allow shifting when using those parts of the bars. Idea being to reduce effort, keep aero - or if it's particularly rough - help maintain bike control ; while still being able to readily pick best gear 🙂

@jojoanggono3229

Жыл бұрын

I agree with the rotational float, my knee seems to like more float compared to very stiff/rigid clip.

Something I'd love to see tested at some point is: How much is it the smaller roll over angle vs the higher rotational inertia that makes larger tires attractive. Higher rotational inertia = less loss of speed from each and every bump on the bike.

@cjohnson3836

Жыл бұрын

Smaller angle of attack means you're also less likely to jam the wheel and go OTB. A lot of people talk about fork travel but really, 29er wheels are a major part of what makes modern trail bikes so capable.

You mentioned suspension forks (30% of them) but a lot of them, including the winning bike, had Redshift's Shockstop suspension stem. What are the downsides to that other than some 200 grams of extra weight?