Nothing shows how crazy Urza's block was than the fact that the Academy deck, the Memory Jar deck, and the Yawgmoth's Bargain decks never got to play against each other, despite all three using cards that came out in back to back to back sets

@YourPalJamieEllis

10 ай бұрын

Wow...yeah that is outrageous.

Craziest thing about companion is someone found an old Rosewater blog post from 2010s where he basically described the mechanic and described how the playtesters basically said to him “wtf? This completely breaks the game.”

@ryorai5804

10 ай бұрын

Imagine what could have been at that time... being able to always have an Emrakul or Jin-Gitaxias...

@zenmaster8826

10 ай бұрын

Actually, it wasn’t that it completely breaks the game, but according to the testers, it led to the most unfun games they’ve played of magic since it removed variance from the game and didn’t felt like they were playing magic. The proto companion mechanic that they were play testing were weaker than normal cards and replaced a card from their starting hand and yet, that was their comment on it

@MTGGoldfish

10 ай бұрын

"variance is the lifeblood of the game..."

@tinfoilslacks3750

10 ай бұрын

There's a reason that Commander, which is essentially proto-companion only even stronger (commander damage, returning to the command zone, eminence, more lax deck building restrictions) is played in a 100 card singleton deck. For a subset of really dedicated magic players however, the companion problem was *definitely* a matter of power level and not variance. Higher level competitive players and especially eternal format competitive players enjoy a much more static metagame with more consistent decks. I personally think MaRo is right about variance but it's clear that the lack of variance wasn't the problem with companion.

@FearOgre

10 ай бұрын

Yep they tested that similar mechanic around tempest.

I swear I just watched this video a few days ago on Nizzahon's channel 🤔

@tybell3438

10 ай бұрын

Me too! 😂

As a note to the companion mechanic in commander: Companions do not count towards the 100 card restriction as they exist outside of the game. Functionally, such decks are 101 card decks.

(19:39) Aw, I was hoping you'd show "-14 days" for Lutri like Nizzahon did.

I remember doing a sealed tournament for a friend’s birthday and I got Omnath and I was so excited and won all my games, just for it to be banned the next day and the price drop a ton. Still a super fun card to play

Came here faster than lutris banning

@dingdongs5208

10 ай бұрын

Edh bans are the laughing stock

@bryantkapono420

10 ай бұрын

That's what she said

@tobymcdonald7064

10 ай бұрын

🗿

@fromadhdtodndtomtg

10 ай бұрын

Blink and ya missed it

@iana3892

10 ай бұрын

The fuck is a lutris?

Thanks for featuring BoshNRoll for your underworld breach example. Dude is a phenomenal legacy player.

@7deuc2e38

10 ай бұрын

He's helped me suck way less with breakfast

i would like to see one ring be first restricted card in modern. It makes drawback from burden counters real and fits with the one ring being only one.

@ATADSP

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I have it in a couple commander deck lists, but aside from the one I pulled in my group's draft, I am holding off getting the others to see if it gets banned. Restricting it would make more sense, but only Vintage restricts so I imagine it gets banned in everything but Vintage and Commander and restricted in Vintage.

@axioms22

10 ай бұрын

Horrible idea that introduces too much randomness in games

@RickR0llin420

10 ай бұрын

Sorry bro. That thing is getting banned

@markvanderwerf8592

10 ай бұрын

Restricted can just end up with a format where you have a dozen must-play 1ofs, basically like vintage. Not a way to go even if fits the card thematically so well.

@wesleywyndam-pryce5305

9 ай бұрын

flavor is the worst possible argument to make for a restriction or banning.

There was that time when you could play goose, Oko, and uro, questing beast, and esika chariot all in one deck. That simic deck was crazy

@koolaiddude7685894

10 ай бұрын

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

@999Lucas

10 ай бұрын

omg. the simic deck and the gruul adventures deck. BSG, soooo much ramp, sooo many answers.

@jerkwater407

10 ай бұрын

too bad they coudn't Attune with Aether because it was banned.

@Stroodleable

10 ай бұрын

Not quite. Oko was banned before Uro was released, and Uro/Chariot weren’t played in the same decks. (Ironically, Chariot didn’t see much play in general until after rotation)

@_shogun

10 ай бұрын

How is this commend this upvoted? This is just not true.

I enjoy these types of videos so much. I learn so much

Lurrus breaks its own deckbuilding restriction, thats always bothered me.

@koolaiddude7685894

10 ай бұрын

Lol this is gonna bug me to the end of time now too. Thanks...

@josephhawkins7974

10 ай бұрын

Part of why I'd honestly just play it as a four of in a deck instead

@_shogun

10 ай бұрын

It's annoying but it's also a neat way of balancing it (despite it being broken anyway)

@braydengibbs8245

10 ай бұрын

It should be 3 because there isn't many things you can do for a commander

@christianroot6287

10 ай бұрын

​@@braydengibbs8245it was busted with 2, lurrus with 3 would be disgusting

Didn't Nizzahon make this video just a few days ago? I get wanting to give your own take on it, but figured you'd wait at least a week

@kelvinliu-huang5955

10 ай бұрын

He probably didn't realize. Funny coincidence

@MTGGoldfish

10 ай бұрын

Apparently. I guess he must have also thought that the week before the ban list updated would be a good time to make a video about bannings. Great minds think alike, as they say ;)

You totally missed the EMERGENCY BAN 2 WEEK AFTER RELEASE INITIATIVE multiccard bannings in Pauper! 😢 This one easily makes it into the top 5! With format warping turbo initative turn 1 game ending combos banned....whats left is now slowed to an absolute earliest T2-3 today. And one of the remaining cards from the set remained/remains on watchlists.

@g.ganderson7415

10 ай бұрын

I thought they took longer with initiative bc it wasn't available on mtgo for some time so it didn't get used much for quite some time right?

@kats7930

10 ай бұрын

@@g.ganderson7415 In paper they were mostly fine because the paper meta is usually behind the MTGO meta and slower to be independant, but once the MTGO players got ahold of it and it was publishing something like 80% of the meta they emergency banned it within 2 weeks of it hitting MTGO. As strange as it is, it didn't hit the majority of paper lists till AFTER it got into MTGO lists first. Likely the "mtggoldfish effect" tbh.

@g.ganderson7415

10 ай бұрын

That was exactly my point. It wasn't on the list since the mtgo release isn't the official release

@kats7930

10 ай бұрын

@@g.ganderson7415 But when 90%+ of the player base got the cards finally, it broke immediately, so that's hardly fair tbh.

Didn't Nizzahon just release this video?

@kelvinliu-huang5955

10 ай бұрын

I think it's just coincidence

1 quick correction. Scourge was released May 26, 2003, and Mind's Desire was restricted in Vintage in a special announcement right before release (I want to say May 15th or 16th, because I remember it was right before the weekend, but over a week before release, but can't find the article ). The regular B/R announcement was scheduled for June 1st, which then formally added it ss restricted in Vintage/type 1, and banned in Legacy/type 1.5. That's why Mind's Desire is known as the first preemptive ban.

@franklinrichards6559

10 ай бұрын

I remember reading it in scry or inquest at the time.

@wraith.ferron

10 ай бұрын

WotC in yesterday's B&R announcement even mentioned it was the fastest ban in history.

Seth is ready for that One Ring banned 😂

@itsallenwow

10 ай бұрын

Seth and me both lol

These kinds of videos are so awesome. I love them! I have been thinking of ways to find the most expensive cards for every "block". I was wondering if you could scrape data from eBay or other online resale sites for years that didn't have a good data?

@MTGGoldfish

10 ай бұрын

I'm actually working on a video about the most expensive card from each year, hopefully it will be up in a couple of weeks.

yay i love when you do series about cards from the years

"Even today with 22 years of power creep, it's still considered to be so broken that it remains on the ban list." Well that aged *perfectly.*

lol the companion decks taught us the real issue is the friends we made along the way.

I still love listening to WOTC staff explain how they didn't think Oko's +1 would be used as removal, especially given that it's closest approximation is Beast Within, which is essentially used exclusively as removal. The total level of incompetence at that company is astounding.

Actually Lutri isn't the only card to get a ban before it was printed. Cards with the conspiracy card type were banned from all constructed formats before they were printed.

@thomaskiser3886

10 ай бұрын

That is different-it was a Limited/draft component-and unusable because they all involved the phrase like “when you draft-“ Companion was never to be a strictly limited/draft mechanic.

@faceoctopus4571

10 ай бұрын

@@thomaskiser3886 Not all of them say "when you draft". For example, Backup Plan. Also just cause a card references drafting doesn't mean it gets an autoban for constructed play. Archdemon of Paliano is constructed playable for example. But yes, Conspiracies were never intended for constructed play.

@MTGGoldfish

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, I didn't count those because they don't really feel like real cards, but maybe I should have. Technically they do show up on the official ban list.

@EnderPryde

9 ай бұрын

And the conspiracy cards aren't alone. As I mentioned in my own comment: they released Timmerian Fiends (an *ANTE* card) a full year and a half after the whole Ante effect was put on the banlist.

@thomaskiser3886

9 ай бұрын

@@faceoctopus4571 sooo you agree they are different since the set and the conspiracy draft mechanics were developed for limited and not intended for constructed ever…even though you pointed out that one nitpick? Lol. They were developed with no intention where all these other caress were in standard and all other formats or intended to be…which makes them different. We may as well through all the unglued cards on the list then…which would be silly!

Great video! Now, THE SLOWEST BANNINGS!!

I had someone in my area who would not budge on the idea that lutri shouldn't be banned in commander, because the card itself was not broken. Completely missing the point that even if it were a vanilla it would be an auto include in every deck with its colors because it has litterally no opprotunity cost, and in fact would be objectively worse to not have. Yet alone actually having an impactful ability that just about any deck can make use of

Ivory Tower is actually played in Premodern. All three of us premodern players are appalled!

@itsallenwow

10 ай бұрын

I love you grandpa!

@janmelantu7490

10 ай бұрын

It was restricted for the same reason Sharazad was: it just makes the game way too long

I love this series, seth!

I have arrived from the future, the Mind’s Desire section is pretty funny now

Oko's ban still felt like it took a year.

The word release is defined as the date a card could legally be played in tounaments so the ban for memory jar was made before the card could legally be played. So Memory Jar was banned before it could be played also known as a pre-ban.

Nizzahon literally put this same video out 3 days ago

Oh you saw the nizzahon magic video on “fastest bans” a few days ago too!

There's like this sound coming from Seth with his barely laugh that makes me thing of a goat lmao

awesome production quality and audio but, whats that thing you are doing with your voice?

Wow this brought me back. I played Magic from Revised in '93. During combo winter I sold all my cards and bought Warhammer models. Didn't come back till RTR, like 13 years later.

I still swear I remember Memory Jar being announced as getting banned during the pre-release of that set, if not the day of release. Might not have been officially banned but was on the chopping block.

DAMN YOU SETH! you had my hopes up for a the one ring ban. but its just a history lesson :

Would Alter reality be able to target Llawan, Cephalid Empress as it was being cast, to change the color words on it? Or would it only be able to target the creature after it was cast?

I can remember Limited Resources being 'banned' from limited when me and some friends stopped in for open drafts. They raised their hand for a judge, and just swapped the whole pack out if that was the rare.

@christianroot6287

10 ай бұрын

was there a reason why?

@999Lucas

10 ай бұрын

The play patterns. Mono w was already one of the best archetypes and it didn't need a lot of mana. If you don't have an answer to LR in your deck it's a scoop. Lots of tappers in white already, so if you sat through a game of that you'd want to play another game instead. Draw a card for turn, you can't play a land, discard for hand size and pass until opponent loses from a bunch of 2 and 1 power creatures and etc. It was better just to swap in the new pack and draft without that card. Read that card. At best case it makes it so nobody else can play magic. It was pretty much boosting if you got LR as the rare. There isn't much else on rate that can compete or even answer that card for card, mana for mana the turn it comes out in the decks that can play it, which is anything with the best color, white.

Tolarian Academy :( i found it out in the wild for $20 hoping i could use it...didnt know it was banned until i got home and found out i run a few artifact decks

You and @nizzahon mind melded on this one

As an otter enjoyer, i wish lutri wasn't banned, just had a restriction that said "can't be used as a companion in commander" or something. There's only like 3 otters in the game 😭

Can you do one about cards that stayed legal for longer than they should have, such as the Saheeli Rai Felidar Sovereign combo that dodged two banning periods in standard?

@wesleywyndam-pryce5305

9 ай бұрын

thats completely subjective though

The companion is the 101st card of a commander deck, so izzet decks wouldn't have been 99 cards+lutri but 100 cards+lutri.

@ILCEM-Y

10 ай бұрын

At least izzet* including Grixis, Temur etc

@blueheartorangeheart3768

10 ай бұрын

Where did you get that idea?

@SparkDragon42

10 ай бұрын

@@blueheartorangeheart3768 the rules

@leress

10 ай бұрын

-No, it would be 99+lutri. Lutri was an extra card in the "starting" hand for no opportunity cost.- I was wrong.

@Zakading

10 ай бұрын

That's just wrong.

Mind's Desire's announcement was before Scourge was even legal to play. They were both effective on the same day.

Maybe you can do one a video on card/deck ruining rule changes. RIP Brain in a Jar. (Honestly that rule change was completely called for for confusion reasons, but WotC should have done it BEFORE a cool combo was built around that cute interaction).

Lutri was the illusion WOTC casted to make us think they didn't design standard sets for commander

still got 4 ivory towers...... was a staple in my blue deck back in the day hahaha

The point where I felt Oko crossed the line was this one 5-0 Red Deck Wins deck I saw. Bog standard Red Deck Wins deck... that splashed _both blue and green_ to run Oko.

Surprised to not see Mental Misstep, that was basically banned a couple of days after modern was made.

@Sientir

10 ай бұрын

How long had it been out before Modern was made, though? (Actual question, don't know the answer off hand.) The list was for how soon a card was banned after it was first printed.

@phyrexian_dude4645

10 ай бұрын

@@Sientir Well, modern was made official the day New Phyrexia was released and it was banned during that week... just enough time for me to get my 4 goddamn copies.

I didn't understand Lutri till I realized he wouldn't be your commander but an extra companion in the 99

I played ivory tower in a Kruphix EDH decks. For 1 mana you can often gain over 100 life, no so bad.

funny timing with nizzahon xD

I was upset about Lutri as I wasn't following mtg at the time and thought it would be super fun to have with my deck.

@jussikivela1914

10 ай бұрын

I'm not a fan of rule zero conversations beyond general power level, but I think that, in this case, you should just ask your pod or playgroup if it's ok to run Lutri. Commander is so messed up (exactly why I love it,) that if someone asks, can I run this or that, or if I can use these two as partners even though they don't have it, I'll just say go ahead! I would even tell to play companion as it's written on the card.

@Sxcheschka

10 ай бұрын

@@jussikivela1914 I used to be part of a group that was super hardcore on tournament rulings even if casual that made me rather glad I no longer live in the same state as them anymore.

@jussikivela1914

10 ай бұрын

@@Sxcheschka Fortunately my playgroup is really relaxed and has some really inventive players. One player in particular has had these fun brews, like mono white Bruna and Gisela partners, mono red Brothers Yamazaki partners and an insane Kitsune mystic/Autumn-Tail, Kitsune sage auras build.

@Sxcheschka

10 ай бұрын

@@jussikivela1914 See, I've always wanted to do The Brothers Yamazaki as they are the og partner commanders, and I'm still a little salty to this day about it, but nope those don't have the official rulings to play with those in tournament play so F you basically. I've also wanted to do silly Un-set stuff as you are never really able to play with those cards, but because that playgroup really only cared about insane efficiency decks and not stupid silly fun, they were like, well what's stopping me from using the overpowered cards, but it isn't about being overpowered, it's about having fun.

Ragavan was prebanned in historic. It was banned prior to it's introduction to arena

Time Vault + Animate Artifact + Instill Energy. 2 years of development and play testing never saw it comming.

And here we are with unbanned Mind's Desire a week after the video

Nizzahon just made this vid like 3 days ago

can you guys do a ban unban predction video for modern?

Popped in here faster than you combo with tibalts trickery on t1.

I would love to see this for EDH ban list.

@pollaski

10 ай бұрын

The only two I remember being fast were Lutri and Leovold. Even Paradox Engine went over a year before everyone had enough

note: Lurrus is legal in vintage nowadays

@joshuagriffith9191

10 ай бұрын

Thankfully. Jeskai Xerox needs it to try and keep up with initiative. It helps… sometimes.

12:43 Actually, it would still be 100 cards, Lutri starts in the Companion zone which is a lot like a sideboard, it's 99 cards+Commander+Companion. (Or 98 in case of partners/Backgrounds)

@christianroot6287

10 ай бұрын

pretty sure that companions are outside of the deck and not counted as part of the 100

@wesleywyndam-pryce5305

9 ай бұрын

​@@christianroot6287 that's what they said

@christianroot6287

9 ай бұрын

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 yeah oopsies

Fluctuator was banned so fast we did not even see it coming. Urza's Saga came out Make Fluctuating Death deck. Played it once in a Local match was banned the next week before a PT Qualifier. You only needed 3 cards in hand to win Fluctuator, a swamp, a Dark Rit and all the rest of the cards cycled. Everything cost 2 to cycle so turn one play swamp cast Dark Rit Cast Fluctuator cycle until you get 2 more Dark Rits and Living Death cast the rits cast LD win.

Man Wizards saw your Mind's Desire entry and were like: Bet

The last part about lutri is wrong: the deck would still have 100 cards, but all UR+ decks able to play Lutri would have an additional free card (and also quite powerful)

@thomasjacobs4919

10 ай бұрын

He was not wrong in what he was saying. In a 100 card format, if the 1 card is in every deck of its colors, then when building those decks you are only choosing the other 99, since the 1 is always there

@thebagger1733

10 ай бұрын

@@thomasjacobs4919that is wrong. Companions aren’t part of the deck, they’re essentially the 101st card and why it was even more of an issue.

People don’t run maze of ith in edh anymore??? This is more surprising to me than the rest of the video haha! Thanks for the video :-)

@klopakarus

10 ай бұрын

I still do use it in some decks. It is definitely seeing less use than before probably because it is way much easier to make wide powerful board. Still I won't dare to call Maze a "bad" card like in a video. Rather not anyhow broken to ban it in a first place xD. I suppose at least from a perspective of modern meta

@MTGGoldfish

10 ай бұрын

It still shows up on occasion, but it isn't really a staple anymore.

i’m running ivory tower as a 4 of in a mono black historic deck. combos like crazy with the one ring.

@josephpurdy8390

10 ай бұрын

It works well with Lich.

Lutri be like Imagine being banned after the set your printed comes out

The fact that Hogaak didnt even make the top 10 is amazing.

@mahdamnblueberry6571

10 ай бұрын

Came here for this comment.

Did everyone forget about Rampaging Ferocidon? If I remember correctly it was banned before it entered standard but was later unbanned. Should still count for a list like this though.

@Lykagame

10 ай бұрын

Rampaging Ferocidon was banned in January 2018 after being released in September 2017, so it had a good 3 months before it was banned.

This is one day old. Maze of Ith went up 2 dollars and card kingdom sold 19 original printings

I actually really like Maze of Ith in my Grimgrin deck, basically allows me to destroy a creature every turn without risking Grimgrin in combat.

Without looking, my boy lutri got the rawest deal ever

Is Lutri hard banned or just as a companion? Can you use it as a commander or in the 99?

@Trokee

10 ай бұрын

Since it’s banned in the commander format as a whole, you can’t use it for any of these unfortunately.

What about the fetches pre-pioneer? They were banned before the format even came out.

bannings didnt happen with each set release but on the 20th every end of quater beeing effective on the first day of the next month. sets becoming legal only the first the following month was a long time rule when we couldnt all preorder stuff from the internet. IIRC to be banned 6 days after release Minds Desire was announced to be banned and restricted before it was even released. so we are actually tied here. since Scourge was relese on the 26 and became legal the following 1s of the month. and therefore also illegal to use Mind's Desire on the same day.

just bought an oko and a mind's desire for an oathbreaker deck :D

Maze of ith was huge for stopping the silly tron decks in EDH, stuff like Rafiq of the many.

@M0NK3Y42

10 ай бұрын

Me and my friend were talking about tron the other day, and I asked what big spells were played before Karn Liberated / Eldrazis. I still have no idea. Lol.

Should i try to sell the one ring now before a ban? Or will the price will be stable even when it's not a modern playable card anymore.

@reyny2118

10 ай бұрын

The price will drop when it gets banned in modern, but it will still rise over time, since it fits in almost every EDH decks.

@sleepteam

10 ай бұрын

@@reyny2118EDH gets even more boring with that autoinclude.

@UnderrealmLich

10 ай бұрын

After Lotr is done with its print run, there will never be another The One Ring printed ever again. I'd say it's pretty safe to keep ahold of if you're able to

@sleepteam

10 ай бұрын

@@UnderrealmLichlmao, I doubt this. We’ll see it in a product down the line guaranteed.

@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle

10 ай бұрын

​@@sleepteamwe'll probably see a mechanical reprint but not the lotr flavor to avoid copyright

Ivory tower in premodern is nuts

Funny he says Ivory Tower doesn't see play anywhere. It was a key piece of the most powerful deck in Premodern but ironically just got nerfed because Land Tax got banned.

Mind's desire is back in Legacy!

This DEFINITELY isnt about the one Ring and the B&R this weekend, huh? :D

Wait. No mention of Timmerian Fiends? A card banned 21 months before it was even released? For context: no. Lutri was not the only card to be pre-banned. In January 1994, with the creation of the DCI Banned/Restricted list, all cards that had Ante effects were banned from play. Towards the end of the next year - October 1995, Homelands was released with Timmeian Fiends... an Ante card. (There are a few other Ante Cards released after the mechanic was banned - Bronze Tablet in Antiquities, Rebirth in Legends, Amulet of Quoz in Ice Age) - the Fiends are just the most pronounced one, being the last card ever printed with the mechanic.

Crazy how recent these are.

Is it coincidence that you and Nizzahon made identical videos and released them 3 days apart? I awesome it is coincidence and kinda funny.

I love how people are going cross eyed screaming BAN THE ONE RING!!!! And you either don't play modern or didn't see how the one ring worked in the pro tour. If anything Dauthi Voidwalker is more busted than the one ring.

@Gonzplays

10 ай бұрын

Clear opponents hand and have menace or double striker within 1st three turns. Fair and fun.

@aarondunbar4707

10 ай бұрын

Turn 1 4/4 double striker. Super fun.

These seth videos are the best content (okay some brewers kitchens are better. Their editing is insane)

ive got maze of ith in every commander deck because i run 37 in almost every deck. also helps they our playgroup are very aggresive players.

Oko...gosh, what a powerhouse of a card!

@g.ganderson7415

10 ай бұрын

The crazy thing is they said in an interview that oko was designed to have a impact in vintage. How could they think that a card that would be good in fucking VINTAGE wouldn't rip Standard apart

@DylanHilliard1

10 ай бұрын

@g.ganderson7415 I mean, I get it. Sometimes, you only value a card with a certain scope, like they did when they looked at it in a defensive stance. They just completely overlooked it as an offensive card. It happens.

Also, minor mistake, Companions are a 101st card to a deck. So saying Lutri decks would be 99 cards plus Lutri is not correct. However, the card is rightfully banned either way.

19:28 That aged well

Nizzahon Magic did the exact same video 3 days ago

Nobody: Oloro: Am i a joke to you?

Ironically enough I'm breaking ivory tower on arena with reliquary tower so i can just have a giant grip of cards and negate the life loss from The One Ring. Haha

Memory jar was an emergency ban

Number one has gotta be lutri right? Banned like, a month before it even came out?

This is crazy as a new player. We have cards that do some of these things lol

Why not just change the Oko second ability to only permanents you control or make it a minus ability?