MCRN Sagamatha might have scored the most kills on the incoming FN fleet, but the UNN Tripoli stayed on station till the last torpedo burned out. From the first Ring gate blockade by the UNN to this valiant last stand, Tripoli stood vigil with no access to dry dock or proper resupply, and it kept firing on all cylinders even when it’s railguns were sheared off, even with its hull cracked and torpedoes hammering through its PDC grid. Sagamatha may have been a hammer, but Tripoli was a shield that refused to break well past its expiration date. To the UNN Tripoli. You will be remembered.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Fer sure that ole warhorse didn't go down without a fight...

Everyone yacks it up over The Red Wedding from GoT but The Battle of Sol Gate is the greatest double-cross ever.

I highly doubt that the gravitational pull of the sol gate is strong enough to rip a stealth coated asteroid apart. If it is than why are the three capital ships not falling into the ring? they are not using there drives to counter the pull before the battle started.

This was a great video, man. Very thorough. I was looking for more content regarding this fight. Keep it up!

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it and thanks for watching.

Lone capital ships on station could make sense in terms of endurance requirements, as with spaceships, other than fuel mass, the primary limiting factors for fleet endurance will be the amount of food and water ships can carry. Lone capital ships would have far superior endurance compared to lighter support ships. We also need to consider need. Modern and history naval capital ships needed escorts primarily for submarine screening and to extend the fleet’s radar horizon. Neither is an issue in the world of the expanse, where there are no (no longer) stealth warships and sensor range is unlimited by the earth’s curvature. In many respect, the naval composition of the expanse is like that of the age of sail, where capital ships were preferred and could operate independently without need of lighter escorts. At the start of Marco’s war, the capital ships would have been there for glorified policing duties officially, but they were there to keep on eye on each other as much as anything else given the extremely important nature of the sol ring. As such there were probably agreements on place between earth and Mars in terms of ‘allowed’ ship strengths near the gates to avoid a Cold War like arms race build up where both sides tried to position more and more ships there in a bid to control the gate. After Marco struck earth, the bulk of the UNN and MCRN fleets would be been either pulled back to protect the homeworlds from further rock attacks, or be dispersed to hunt down the free navy. With the massive amount of firepower on station at the Sol Gate already, reinforcing that would have seemed massive overkill and a waste of ships and as such been a low priority. Remember, even with the micro-meteorite attack and backstab, the battle would have eventually gone against the free navy but for the rogue Martian fleet. All of that is understandable and fine, however the glaring problem I have with this (and last season) was the handling of Mars. Why on earth(Mars?) would they be dismantling their fleet after the discovery of the ring gates? It would kind like Europe deciding to abolish its navies after Columbus had ‘discovered’ the new world. Yes, ordinary Martians would have been keen to colonise the new worlds, but you cannot do that without ships! And as last season showed, unarmed civilian colony ships by themselves is just begging for anyone with a gun to come and take your lunch money. Rather than scale back its navy, Mars (and earth) should have gone into a ship building frenzy commissioning new ships like crazy. That would have provided far better cover for the rogue Martians to gather up and secret away both the ships for Marco’s free navy, but also their own breakaway fleet. When you have an already small fleet, further depleted by war with earth, it makes no sense that anyone would be able to redirect the sheer number of ships as was stolen without being discovered long ago. Freshly commissioned ships, OTOH, could have crews cherry picked for their loyalty to the rogue faction, and would not be missed for weeks or months as they go on shack down cruises. With such a building frenzy of new ships, war damaged ships may not be repaired, and many old workhorses might have been retired through obsolescence. That’s where Marco’s free navy should have come from - resurrected slain Martian ships from the war with the UNN patched up and rearmed with stolen weapons or damage ships redirected to Marco. Giving him brand new ships made zero sense in the context of general decline and reducing fleet numbers of the MCRN.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Wow that was a very detailed and well thought out response with good points. Maybe Mars was de-commissioning older ships and it seemed like a lot of Marine Arms. Possibly the MCRN did not want some of their warships falling into private hands like the problem Earth had? Ya those are all valid plot points that I would have to think about for a minute to give a good response .. :) Thanks for the awesome feedback.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Okay I thought about this some more. Likely this was a domino effect due to the Martian economy being based around terraforming. Because these large institutions have stopped work on this planet wide endeavor and the economy has shifted towards colonizing new ring planets, the MCR no longer has the funding to support such a large naval and military force. Yes it does seem odd they would scrap naval vessels instead of converting them to colony ships, but a lot of times it is simply cheaper to build new ships instead, especially war ships to fit the new environment and technologies that had formed over the past 15-30 years sense some of the older ships were constructed.. Take in mind this is shortly after the Earth Mars conflict and likely the MCR has decided to scrap more ships in desperate need of refit / retrofit / overhauls. Economics can be a strange beast, especially ones that exist on an interplanetary scale. That is my paraphrase response

@Iceyman314

3 жыл бұрын

One thing I found interesting that you pointed out was the UNN and MCRN watching each other as much as anything else... Gives those first few seconds of the UNN battleship rotating its railgun forward (instead of where it had been pointing, backwards, towards the Sagarmatha) a bit more interesting potential meaning

Dude.... criminally undersubbed. Keep it up cuz this channel will have 25K soon. Watch.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

The Donnager class ships are cursed to do a dramatic last stand

Great video 📹👍

Very interesting content 👌 👍.

very well done!!!

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

For the second time on screen... we get to see A Donnager class battleship in battle, And for the second time it gets destroyed because the captain was too freaking stupid to deploy any of the support craft in a screening role. Fighting with your back to a one-way mirror is an insanely stupid way to function and the commanders of all three vessels should be reprimanded for their appalling lack of tactical sense. At the very least they should have deployed a sensor drone of some kind through the ring gate so that they knew if missiles were coming to shoot them in the ass. It is one thing for Marco Anaros To work out the orbital intercept to throw stealth astroids at a planet....It is entirely another thing to send micrometeorite fragments at Mobile targets like battleships. The consolidated Navy vessels should not have been that predictable and their formations should have been spread out so as to prevent this sort of thing from ever happening in the first place. Note, it should also be pointed out that the UNN admiral is talking out of his ass when he says that those three vessels out gun the enemy forces 3 to 1. They have no clue how many vessels the enemy actually has or what their fleet strength might be. They are shooting blind in the dark and in this case all three of their ships are parked with their backs to a giant tactical weakness. NOTE: 2.0, As long as I am ranting about stupid things that would never actually happened in reality... Earth and Mars, the two superpowers in the system have zero tactical presence in ring space. Not a single probe of any kind, no communication relays, no sensors... nothing! The sole terrestrial (if we can call it that) presence in ring space....is an OPA station. A fifth grader could recognize a tactical chokepoint like that, but apparently the UN and The MCRN are incapable of recognizing that if external alien attack comes... it will most likely come through the gate so they should probably point some weapons at it. Parking your ships with their back to the gate is one of the worst possible mistakes you could make

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

The Asteroids were 3 rubble rocks covered in stealth composite layers that got ripped apart by the rings gravitational pull turning them into thousands of projectiles, that is hard to defend against. The ships were well spread out in the formation, each rubble rock targeted each ship separately. As for only the three battleships, I think it was because the UNN and MCRN fleets were focused on defending the inner planets from the protomolecule strike threat. Also Earth and Mars had just lost a bunch of ships fighting each other. I think the defense force just got out maneuvered by the in-depth strategical planning of the rogue martian Admirals, that by the way neither the UN or MCR were aware of such subterfuge. Hind sight is always 20/20 and no one thought the Free Navy could execute such a precise order of battle, which they couldn't have without the rogue martian fleet... As for the Medina Station attack, there was no indication the fortress had switched sides as Admiral Duarte facilitated its take over by authorizing MCRN ships to smuggle in Free Navy operatives. It seems like a bad defensive strategy to the viewers because the in universe personal did not grasp all the dynamics in play like the audience could.

@Matt-yg8ub

3 жыл бұрын

@@SurfTrekTonics If you want to talk bad strategy, it is inexcusably bad strategy to leave your rear completely unguarded and open to attack from what was AT BEST! a neutral party, and at worst a capable threat.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Even if the MCRN and UNN deployed a squadron of 4 or 6 gunships the Rogue Free Navy would have launched an extra rubble rock or two to take them out. It would not take that much more effort from a logistical point of view for an operation of that scale. Also the Ring Gate treaty stipulated that OPA assets guard inside the ring space hub, but yes I do see your point that the UNN or MCRN could have got around that by sending in inspection sorties to monitor Medina Stations activities possibly...

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it does seem like leaving the 3 Battleships unsupported was a bad tactical decision, it would have made more sense to have a few Frigates patrolling outside the Ring Gate position but the Rogue Navy could have countered that also. Hard to say..

@Matt-yg8ub

3 жыл бұрын

@@SurfTrekTonics It defies suspension of disbelief that neither Earth nor Mars chose to deploy a recon satellite or three to “monitor” things. Apparently the Expanse has never heard of the future equivalent of the infamous ‘Russian trawler’. As for the Free Navy “launch(ing) An extra rubble rock or two to take them out” Stealth material is a finite resource, it is statistically unlikely that the Free Navy would have been able to successfully coordinate striking three fixed targets... Adding in an additional 4 -6 frigates on unpredictable trajectories? That’s damn near impossible to hit them all simultaneously.

🙏 Thanks for this

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Fer sure

Great video

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

Great video, but the scenario presented by the show was obviously flawed from the beginning. Capital ships that size NEVER travel by themselves in our current modern navy. And I can't imagine they would in the Expanse universe as well. They would each be surrounded by a flotilla of smaller support craft, extending their situational awareness and covering against smaller craft. Additionally, that micro meteor swarm was EXTREMELY lucky to find it's target in the exact same spot as when it was first launched days prior. I'm skeptical the three battleships wouldn't have made periodic maneuvers for various reasons (gravity assist, tactical unpredictability). I found the battle as presented on the show to be rather unrealistic. But your video did a good job presenting it as was presented by the episode. Thank you for your work.

@jssjhsb7234

3 жыл бұрын

Most other ships were probably hunting for Marco in the belt

@jeanwesleynew

3 жыл бұрын

@@jssjhsb7234 Leaving a "cap ship" (or three) unprotected would be exceedingly unwise. Akin to a major league baseball team playing a game without an outfield. ...it wouldn't happen. The flotilla isn't just escorting the capital ship for the heck of it, waiting for any old reason to leave their station protecting their cap ship. Such a significantly valuable resource requires an escort.

@jssjhsb7234

3 жыл бұрын

@@jeanwesleynew it was also often stated that those ships were way superior to any belter ship and i think it was even said that one of them could destroy the whole free navy. They simply were too confident in their ships and they were on full alarm after the asteriods hit which is why they probably sent the rest of the fleet to hunt marco. They would have probably won easily against all those belter ships if the meteriote storm didnt happend.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

The three Dreadnought Battleships guarding the ring were massive compared to standard ships and they had a combined firepower of roughly 60 standard warships. Major UNN and MCRN fleets pulled back to guard the inner planets from a possible protomolecule strike. Task groups were hunting the Free Navy but Marco Inaros had high level intelligence from Rouge Mars Admiral Duarte, feeding him deployments and navigation allowing Marco's ships to avoid intercept.

@jssjhsb7234

3 жыл бұрын

@@SurfTrekTonics yes

The Medina station backstab didnt matter, the Rogue Martians woulda finished the job anyway. Even the Pallas station attack didnt matter, Inaros faction belters woulda seized the place, sicne its clear his own fanatics are all over the important parts of the belt. Still not sure why UN/Mars had such a skeleton force guarding the Ring Gate.

@randomnobodovsky3692

3 жыл бұрын

Skeleton force is easily explained by previous lengthy hostilities causing attrition, if we insist that 3:1 advantage over Free Navy (and who else would they guard it from, if their mutual hostilities were frozen?) is skeleton force. Seriously, attrition rates in space must be terrible, as space isn't water.

@zqfmgb4335

3 жыл бұрын

Three of the most powerful ships in the system is hardly a skeleton crew. Of course normally there would've been more, but they probably had to call back quite a few to protect Earth and Mars, as well as their assets in the Belt. That and Mars doesn't have a lot of ships and the UN lost a big part of its fleet in the last war.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

I will agree to disagree, the 20 Free Navy and Rogue ships needed to take out the MCRN battleship to avoid the ships advanced sensors detecting their drive signatures through the stealth, just like the Rocy detected the other Martian Free Navy Ships. If Medina Station did not take out the MCRN Battleship I don't think the Free Navy Rogue ships could have overcome that amount of firepower without the element of surprise.

@thedachmo

3 жыл бұрын

There's actually a scene in an earlier episode where you see ships pulling back from the rings, why isn't explained, but I'd assume protecting Earth/Mars and other assets like Ganymede would be the reason. Looking at the way those three battleships were just shrugging off the incoming and taking out a few in return, I think it is clear the Free Navy wouldn't have stood a chance without the surprise meteor shower and the rogue Martians.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

@@thedachmo That was UNN and MCRN Fleets pulling back to guard the inner planets from a possible protomolecule strike. Hunter task groups were dispatched to eliminate Free Navy ships / take out Inaros.

Admiral Sauveterre

the show they took away the "time " of space travel it felt like startrek, just watching them zip from location to location

Still annoyed at how this was written. With the MCR and the UN at war at the time the ships guarding the gate should have never just stayed at their location. Not just for the obvious "prevent attack by long range kinetic projectiles" but also to keep simulated gravity through accelerating and braking. Cant just have your crew in zero G for months when you have another option like that.

Good video, but it's "Marco" not "Marcos" ;)

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

Right-o, I have of a bad habit of adding the "s" when his name is used singular. Thanks for the watch / comment.

Your video clips are a Cam job? 🥴

The ring doesn't have any gravitational pull... it's a structure, not a planet

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

The ring itself would have an Area of 785,398.163 KM, that is around half the size of Luna. The Expanse showed a 375m UNN Dreadnought next to the ring gate entrance and it looked like a twig. So any mass artificial or natural will have gravity. Also not assuming the ring gate energy field produces some type of pull. Sometimes I get Meters and Kilometers mixed up from years of Yards and Miles :) Thanks for watching.

@mostlymessingabout

3 жыл бұрын

@@SurfTrekTonics it's a stretch to say it has any significant mass to attract objects. Otherwise the ships guarding it would have to have its engines turned on constantly to avoid being sucked in. The ring is big but the weight is in the ring itself not the total surface area. The path of the meteors would have also been very different. It looked as if it was flying almost parallel to the ring face rather than falling towards it. The show is quite accurate when it comes to all space paths near gravitational bodies. In this case it was very carefully swung from very far away and use gravitational slingshot from other big bodies like planets. The materials to make the ring came from two small ships and some dirt on Venus. Maybe the weight of a small asteroid but not much. I may be wrong but best check with the book for reference.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

The rubble rocks were on an orbital trajectory angle arch coming towards were the apex of the curve was at the front of the ring gate. Also the free Navy Ships were doing a slowing burn with the engines facing the ring gate to slow down. When they attacked the ships flipped forward. When the battle was over the ships flipped back the way they came accept for Marco's ship that was entering the ring network hub. As for the battleships they would need to do a certain amounts of thrust bursts every so often to maintain position, but not a constant burn or they would escape the gravity. Also because it is a gate leading to wormholes, maybe directly in from of the gate is a vortex and further out from the object is like normal gravity, its tech beyond our understanding. The protomolecule is said to be so advanced almost to the point of God like tech, able to multiply itself. Also how it created the ring gate was not understood, maybe it can turn rock into tech, no one knows. I think at the start of S4 they show how large the ring arm circle is compared with the UNN Dreadnought, sorry dont know off the top of my head. So maybe the total mass of the ring gate is comparable to a planetoid or small moon, either way that is enough gravity. Thanks for the feedback, I really have to think about how to explain a sci-fi show based on realism :)

@GabbieTheFox

3 жыл бұрын

Also... The ships of the Expanse use Fusion reactors. Not Matter/Antimatter reactors to generate their power. If antimatter was aboard an Expanse ship, the ship would immediately be annihilated since technology in The Expanse isn't advanced enough to reliably contain antimatter. In Season 1 we see that Donnager classes can't keep fighting all-out for particularly long. Presumably the heat generated from weapons fire and various other systems would reach dangerous levels. So they have to shut down their main engines for a while. By the way... I hate to be that person @Surf TrekTonics ...But the video and audio quality here when you're showing clips from the show sucks... Why are you using a camera to record your monitor? Why not just use Shadowplay or some other screen capture software to do the recording? It would be easier for you since you can just press a hot-key or click a button and it's recording, No need to adjust an actual camera... If your system has an Nvidia GPU, which is usually the default choice for most systems as far as I know, you have Shadowplay built-in to Geforce Experience. Just make sure Geforce is running then I think the default keybind for recording toggle is Alt + F9. Note that you might need to enable Desktop Capture. If you do, it should ask you before starting the recording.

@SurfTrekTonics

3 жыл бұрын

@@GabbieTheFox Anti Matter is an advanced form of fusion drive based off pulse propulsion types. It is a general term not exclusive to Trek.