Honestly, I think the Voth are 100% right about being "Delta Quadrant" natives and not just because they have been there for 20 million years. One thing the episode didn't take into consideration that funnily enough vindicates the Voth is that the Sol system and other stars slowly orbit around the center of the galaxy. During the Cretaceous era, Earth would have been in what would be considered the Delta Quadrant. I think the Voth fled Earth before or in the immediate aftermath of the Chicxulub Impact. They probably had tech just a little more advanced than modern day and fled in generation ships that became a permanent space born civilization with city ships. These ships probably maintained a relative position in the galaxy and lost track of their devastated homeworld. This would also explain some weird biological traits that they probably picked up in space such as their ability to go into hibernation in distress (useful for long space voyages and low resource conditions), their more humanoid shape (more compact and useful in space than a more traditional saurian body plan), and cold bloodedness (less energy use - the ancestor of crocodiles for instance seems to have been warm blooded but their descendants became cold blooded to save energy while focusing on ambush hunting).

@Brukner841

Жыл бұрын

that ties it up real nicely.

@WINTEJER000

Жыл бұрын

Why you so smart!?! That is a great thought

@SomeKindaSpy

7 ай бұрын

The only thing that gets up my butt about them is the fact that they're descended from *Hadrosaurs*. The LEAST LIKELY species to evolve intelligence.

@TK199999

7 ай бұрын

Yup, that is why Chakotay is an idiot. He could have proved that the 'Distant Origin' theory was wrong and Voth doctrine (which probably was written the way it was for a reason, which the epo. never explores) was mostly right correct. Since Sol was probably close to the Voth homeworld during the Cretaceous and so not distant be incredibly close. Meaning Voth controlled their territory for millions and were likely a powerful neutral kingdom in Delta Quadrant for millions of years. There were lots of minor cataclysms during the Cretaceous that caused mini mass extinctions and could have easily pushed the primordial Voth to leave Earth in great colonization fleets and not some rag tag refugee fleet as Matriarch feared. Especially since such an event would have permanent effects on Voth cultural, if not on their mythologies or religions. But the opposite seems to be the case, with their Doctrine suggesting their star nation survived some great event that precipitated the necessity to create a set of laws to govern their society. But seem to emphasis not interacting with the warm bloods (though the Voth like dino's could be meso-therms and not cold blooded) and that all had rights even the erratic warm bloods. In fact Voth doctrine seems very similar to how Vulcan society could have gone rather than it did. But would have made the epo. very short and given everyone a happy ending.

This puts it into perspective that the UFP era really represents a kind of "Renaissance" period of Galactic history, with interplanetary civilizations re-emerging after million-year long Dark Ages.

@TheRezro

Жыл бұрын

Basically that. Furthermore of long last civilization. There is a reason why machine gods watch them carefully.

@Corbomite_Meatballs

Жыл бұрын

Sort of like the Mass Effect backstory, without all the weird sentient destroying stuff, and almost like our history where civilization pop-up, exist, and decline/vanish, only to have other civs build on top of their remnants.

@jaimebabb9968

2 ай бұрын

On the other hand, maybe there has been a continuous churn of civilizations of comparable power to the UFP since ancient times and very, very few of them have ever survived into godhood.

A huge chunk of this timeline is fulled out with "USS Enterprise bumps into something funky, turns out its probably god."

It is interesting just how many of these ancient hyper-advance civilizations either went into complete isolationist stagnation or just were completely wiped out. Now out-of-universe, this is so that Humans and the UFP are not near the bottom of the totem pole for some immortal intergalactic hegemon. In-universe though, it leaves concerns of what yet discovered entities exist out there in the Trek universe, and how Humanity and the Federation will be able to resolve and progress beyond them.

@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat

Жыл бұрын

Everything in the Star Trek universe is lacking some trait that we’ve made up for, or will. Hell even vger wasn’t even capable of understanding person to person communication, while presumably encountering billions over time

@jamiedoe6822

Жыл бұрын

Raises questions about how long a civilization like the Federation can exist

@Youtube_is_Trash

Жыл бұрын

On Earth, there are plenty civilization that went extinct pretty much by themselves. Heck, there used to be many species of Sentient hominid on Earth, yet only one survived. Why would it be different in space?

@jamiedoe6822

Жыл бұрын

@@KZread_is_Trash well futurists believe in a scale where civilizations reach a certain point and essentially there is no turning back. I have never bought into it but trek’s optimism would suggest it would have a less fatalistic view of history.

@tba113

Жыл бұрын

The more you poke around in the edges of the lore, like the occasional bizarre xenoarchaeological digs, the anomalous after-action reports, and situations where science seems to just stop working, the more the Star Trek universe starts seeming like it would fit in with the Cthulhu Mythos.

8:43 funny that there were two independent humongous probes on their ways to earth and they probably had no clue about each other

The Voth the Civilization turtle meta in Star Trek.

@meswoopnoseenothing

5 ай бұрын

Triceratops not turtle!

@barrybend7189

5 ай бұрын

@@meswoopnoseenothing turtling is a term used in strategy games where you go slow and focus on defense.

@meswoopnoseenothing

5 ай бұрын

@@barrybend7189also I was wrong regardless because I forgot the Voth were hadrosaurs lol

Some of the "no exact date" parts are easily explained by a gradual occurrence; such as the Organian's ascension.

In season one of Picard Narek says that Vulcans and Romulans didn't originate on Vulcan. "Like Ragnarok or Judgment Day. An ancient myth. Some say it dates back from long before our ancestors first arrived on Vulcan"

@jaimebabb9968

2 ай бұрын

Which fits with Spock's comment in "Return to Tomorrow" about how Sargon's people were possibly ancestors of the Vulcanoid races.

Its believed that the Perservers were of the same race as the Progenitors, and were preceded by the Seeders. My theory is that the Voth were one of the Humanoid lifeforms that the Progenitors created, however before they could evolve enough, the asteroid hit earth. They were then saved by some group of Progenitors (seems that Seeders and Perservers are more a job title than an actual race name), and later transplanted to the Delta quadrant. This actually solves both problems form on screen. They did indeed continue to evolve, only on their new home in the Delta quadrant. So form their perspective Doctrine is correct. It also explains when after 65 million years their tech isn't as advanced as we think it should be. Because they didn't have space tech when they fled from earth, they were transplanted by others and were basically still primitive, maybe even still animals with the potential to become intelligent.

@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat

Жыл бұрын

You could even say the changlings aren’t a natural species, and are the genetically engineered remnants who went nuts. Ala all Tomorrows

@TheRezro

Жыл бұрын

I'm almost sure that Progenitors and Preservers were not species, but factions of same specie. Who after discovering that most advanced civilization before them died out, become obsessed in they own survival. One faction take passive approach creating archives of extinct species and they own. Important note, it was recorded in they own DNA. When another start actively terraforming planets and impregnating them with own life. They also left recording of that in species DNA. But I also have another theory who they actually were. T'Kon! Specie who could manipulate whole star systems (terraforming is quite hard in Trek) and created wast network of Gates (look Portal 63), BTW later used by Borg. As side note Guardian of Forever also show in human form in Discovery, holding paper referencing destruction of T'kon by supernova. I personally believe that they capital was located somewhere near galactic core, where area was riddled with anomalies. Romulus was in fact destroyed by same force, what wanted prevent rise of similar power. But that in not everything. I do believe that T'Kon are no one else then Iconians! Tikon?! Though they lore mention slave rebellion and orbital bombardment. It is not mutually exclusive that one of those slave races could be mechanical and detonate Iconian Star. Iconia was also located between Federation border and Romulan Empire. But that is not everything. Though STO consider Tuterians (Sphere Builders) as separate specie, they actually could be a offshoot of Iconians (who were exploring and then trapped in the subspace). They in fact do look extremely close to Progenitors and Preserves (who most likely do use rudimentary temporal tech). It would also safe to assume that Delphic Expanse was located near core and somewhat separate Earth from Romulan empire. What would allow passage during Earth Romulan War, but also not make border obvious. Due to problems with exploration. I do believe that Iconians from STO actually, could be one of several groups of survivors. The differences in look could be explained with genetic modifications. Basic design is still rather similar. Though if having that option Sphere Builders should be Icoinains and then adopt temporal polarization suit over time. What would allow stay them in current time.

@TheRezro

Жыл бұрын

@@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat I agree about that.

@jacara1981

Жыл бұрын

@TheRezro might be, however the Progenitors first appeared several billion years ago, and the Perservers were 30k to 50k years ago. The Seeders I believe were around a million years ago.

@TheRezro

Жыл бұрын

@@jacara1981 Problem is that transwarp gate networks allow time travel. So we should look on them from angle of Temporal Cold War, not the linear timeline. It is also where Star Trek Online fail in my opinion. Tough I assume machines were actively preventing them from temporal manipulation, so it can be sort of explained?

This is amazing! Thanks! Cant wait for part 3!

I’m sure the Voth were impressive in the gap of time between other species, but now they’re just bigger versions of everyone else. Also I really wish we saw a Borg assimilated both ship like in STO

Be space fairing, home sectors sun goes supernova "Well, I guess that's it for us, better go extinct" (Common Star Trek theme)

@meswoopnoseenothing

5 ай бұрын

I wonder if there’s an outside entity triggering supernovas

😯🍿 good stuff. Gonna enjoy the next part

Another great one. Thank you! :)

6:47 you should be able to find traces of this, mainly in the planets composition having little to nothing to do with the star it orbits

The Voth, at slower than light speeds, could have colonized every single star in the Galaxy in 10M years.

Impressive work.

Thanks for another great upload..

👏 Very good video, thanks...

is there any information why there is no cryogenic systems on starships? i remember seeing cryogenics or something similar being used in a show or two (don't remember which) but i don't see it being used for example, in emergencies, like when a doctor can't cure some weird infection or something along those lines.

How could the Voth make anything with those massive claws

I never got why the Borg didn't destroy the telepathic pitcher plant

Amazing lore

I strongly recommend a TNG novel called "The Buried Age" by Christopher L. Bennett, which really gets into the nitty-gritty of archaeology in the Star Trek universe and the civilizations that were present circa 300 million years before present.

Where’s part three?? It’s been over nine months since this video came out

Ugh, how the hell did it take me literally 3 full days to realize he posted the next part????? Lol

I had the audio book of ST:IV, narrated by George Takei, says that the whales were in contact over long distance with the species who built the probe. Kinda like pen pals I guess. Well what once was joyous correspondence becomes one of distress and anguish, and then silence. So the probe was dispatched to see what had happened, only to discover that what they had thought was the only intelligent species on Earth had been wiped put. Which is why the probe's transmission had been directed at our oceans. So the probe then began to ensure that whatever had wiped out the planet's intelligent life be exterminated.

part 3 please

i love that in a book(cant remember) its the ex-3 tech that soong finds and uses as inspiration for data

Only 31k views is insanity tho. 84th

10:00 Quarians be like XD

So curious. I haven't watched any of discovery but in sto at the end of the iconian story they tell you they may be ready to speak on 1000 years how close would that be time wise?

@teresaravenshaw5477

Жыл бұрын

Season 3 of Discovery takes place in 3189, so that might help you work it out.

@LMG1792

Жыл бұрын

@Teresa Ravenshaw so yeah a little over 1000 years then as sto takes place around 2409 that is cool that the time line matches up to that. Thank you.

🖖

Part 3?

14:03 “uss yamato” lmao what were they smoking when they came up with that one?

in the show in voyager "timeless" the prime timeline ends after 15 years when harry change the timeline and all happend things after 2375 played in another quantumverse right?

Hmm... An ancient and highly advanced civilization called "The Old Ones" retreats underground to escape a global ice age, relies on increasingly capable artificial servitors, and is eventually wiped out when the servants grow too capable to remain in bondage. Where have I heard this before...? _Tekeli-li!_

Is it just me, or does the Tkon Empire sound like the basis for the Universe Sandbox games? 😀

BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO...

I wonder if anyone has written up laws for the use and treatment of sentient AI yet? It's gonna be here very soon, after all!

What if the remnant of the Tkon lead the attack on Iconia.

The Voth's refusal to believe the origin of their species is obviously a mirror to those who deny our own evolution. BUT, it is also just as likely that the ministry's anger over not being "native" to the delta quadrant is also to mirror Americans and other humans' denial that we are all immigrants if we go back far enough. But we are now natives of the places we inhabit.

kzread.info/dash/bejne/dYCHtppspMKfeps.html The Excelsior might be related to the moon Ganymede.

Yey first 3 minutes for a change

Your voice, Ricky, seems related to AI in this: Backspace Returns. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fY2etJaNmbWvmMo.html

When human-made AI develops to a sufficient level of sophistication that it can choose whether or not to wipe us out or not, we should just resolve to be cool and not push the issue.

@jolan_tru

Жыл бұрын

Fortunately (unfortunately?) AI doesn't and can't work that way in real life.

@alexrusset8614

Жыл бұрын

@@jolan_tru I don't think we can say that for certain. There are just too many things we don't know.

@gh0stcassette

3 ай бұрын

​@@jolan_truWhy not? If you can create a machine far more intelligent than humans and accidentally give it a goal that conflicts with human survival, it would eradicate us. Do you not think AI that intelligent are possible?

In sci fi you always see the limits of what can be published and produced that also what can appeal to enough people. Humans have a hard time with exponentials. There will perhaps be more people in our solar system in a thousand years than in most of these sci fi universes. We're now starting to truly contemplate this. And plot armor can be so annoying, like why didn't the Borg just send 10 000 cubes after the first one? Wouldn't they have had millions? Taking out Mars construction yards in Piccard shouldn't have affected production capacity that much. At the size of the Federation and Starfleet, wouldn't they have had a construction yard in every other system? I do kind of like the swashbuckling influences, lone ships out in the undiscovered void, but we could imagine the far future at a much higher order of magnitude. I loved DS9, Babylon 5, but Stargate stands out especially cause it made the most sense, every species had been either in thousand year hibernation sessions, or stagnant with cloning and 0 births, Goa'uld being very primitive ultimately, the super weapons being the only way to stop exponential growth like replicators, Ori zealots, from overwhelming the Galaxy. In a real scenario, so many worlds, habitats, city ships would be populated and with everyone having their own manufacturing, fusion and antimatter, automation, biotech etc... The real scale would and will be inconceivable, because in real life, we might expand in all directions with von Neumann probes, send entire ecosystems in a petri dish, everyone will have a Versailles in space, and those will be the cheap studio ones. And if we're talking interstellar war, firing black holes and creating utterly massive laser weapons that obliterate moons would be the order of the day. I doubt capital ships will limit themselves to 640 meters most of the time like in Star Trek. And there would be millions of them The Death Star is a leap in exponential thinking, Dyson swarms as well, the Combine had at least one. Can't wait for the future, hope we get to live 5000 years and see this stuff, and hope we don't turn out like the Borg.

@AGTheOSHAViolationsCounter

Жыл бұрын

Ahhh I sense a fellow Arthurian, a fellow man of culture 😅

It’s a shame that human scientists have not taken the lessons of AI in Star Trek to heart. We are treading on thin ice and will someday reap the whirlwind.

So that's it? You've given up on this series after this video? smh

I think the most advanced Spiecies in Startrek are the Q. In my humble opinion they are only one step below in Evolution to become an Entity like the Overmind from the Novel Childhoods End from Arthur C. Clark. Maybe our favorit Q , portrayed by John D Lancy, will be integrated after his Death

algorithm comment

TFTC

Any organic lifeforms who are foolish enough to create something as potentially superior and destructive to them as ASI must find a way to install within it an indestructible mechanism which generates an artificial conscience which produces a sort-of artificial morality set---including an unalterable gratitude program that ensures that it (1) refrains from destroying its creators; and (2) pursues goals which never constitute a threat to its creators' existence.

Did some blue guy decide to try and ride some massive orange flying predator just as the TKon empire collapsed?

I hate the Kelvin Timeline!

Well, in the Christian religion the artificial life (humans destroyed it’s creator) so make sense in Star Trek.

The Voth was my favorite alien species in the Delta Quadrant and this species should have been the main foe of the Voyaher crew instead of the worn out Borg and the equally uninteresting Species 8472.

@davidortiz2696

Жыл бұрын

They were ok

106

"The probe has sincebeen repaired and allowed to continje" Repaired by whom? If you are going to throw in things like that, then add more information! And if it was repaired and allowed to "continue on its way, though without anyone to report its findings to" then why repair it at all? Repair it and then change the system to report the findings to whomever repaired it! And yiu don't even understand that being native to somewhere means that someome ORIGINATED there. That is like saying humans are native to Barnard's Star, despite the fact that we never evolved anywhere near it. Just because no evidence of voth have been found, doesn't mean it won't be. Techtonic plates, floods, volcanos - all can hide evidence of any culture. You are getting sloppy in your videos.

Not gonna lie, I don't like the Voth one bit. Their entire existence is so badly thought-out and poorly designed.

Hello Captain Rik so i have seen Picard S3 ep6 WOW! so much Fan service can't be faulted the photography Stunning the Emotional reunion and pay off was impactful but is it too little too late? The LaForge gang is worth watching so credit where it's due

Aw, he went with Chakotay's absurd theory as canon. Just say the Voth are descended from dinosaurs saved by the Preservers. It makes them an extremely long-lived force in the galaxy, but if the theory that they're the Progenitors is true then 10s of millions of years is just a drop in the bucket. Plus it fits well with an old Star Trek novel and current Star Trek web comic.