I am absolutely not surprised that Greece was given Constantinople. I know the map-drawing community, they always want Byzantium back.

@dakapo8985

10 ай бұрын

Of course the Roman Empire is peak map-painter fantasy. Its the bloody Roman Empire!

@seanmcloughlin5983

10 ай бұрын

Even tho they’d be given it, like with eastern Anatolia I don’t think they’d be able to hold it against a resurgent Turkey under attaturk

@johnconners1733

10 ай бұрын

even though by this time, I'm pretty sure that Istanbul was more turkish than greek

@Quickshot0

10 ай бұрын

@@seanmcloughlin5983 Possibly not, though at the same time it's a far more defensible position, so taking it sure wouldn't be easy either.

@bunniifangz

10 ай бұрын

Constantinople was like ethnically half Greek too before WW1 and had been historically Greek for many centuries before the Ottomans stole the city, ofc many agree it’s rightfully Greek

Germany: loses ww1 Germany: gains more land then lost Germany: visible confusion

@Yanate1991

10 ай бұрын

wehraboos, byzaboos and virgins on a circle diagram would be a single circle

@gladiatorone9023

9 ай бұрын

The task has been failed successfully!

@ro.m.6432

9 ай бұрын

they still lost polish corridor though, what made them most angry

@aoki6332

9 ай бұрын

@@ro.m.6432 actually what the biggest objection of the treaty was Article 231 which forced Germany to take sole responsibility for the war and the more than insane war reparation that fallowed (33 Billion USD which is around 581 Trillion in today money 25 time the gdp of the US, war reparation that Germany ended paying in 2010)

@danielhopkins2277

9 ай бұрын

​@@ro.m.6432 That's completely wrong. They're even against to attack Poland... even Göring and some other big shots were against it. Hitler & Co had to use a lot of propaganda about polish people killing germans in Poland (what was true 15 years before) to get the Support of the people. Like the other one said, the biggest problems with the Treaty were the blame for the war (although everyone in Europe wanted the war and it was Serbia and Russia) and the money... and without the american Stock market crash in 1929 Hitler was still preventable. NSDAP: ~ 3 % in 1928 ~ 18 % in 1930 ~ 37 % in 1932 Thanks to the former Leaders it went better in 1932/33... sadly perfect time for the NSDAP...

Truly to say I'm kinda sad that everyone forgets Bulgaria during WW1, when the country mobilized between 12% and 20% of its population, which for a country of 4.8 million people, at that time, was quite the achievement.

@Melnek1

10 ай бұрын

It is because it draws attention to Serbia and its role in instigating the conflict and supporting terrorist groups, and also to Greece, the narrative that the entente fought for the rights of smaller states does not hold up, it becomes hypocritical when we see all that the French and British did to bring Greece into the war.

@nanaya7e433

10 ай бұрын

I for one always remember about Bulgaria in WW1. In my opinion, it's the country that showed the most competence in waging war and Bulgaria's impact on the war was way bigger than its small size would suggest.

@TiagoH1710

10 ай бұрын

@@Melnek1while the part on Greece is true as far as my knowledge goes, I’m pretty sure the assassination of the archduke wasn’t supported by the Serbian Government

@concept5631

10 ай бұрын

​@@Melnek1 Woodrow: I respect every nations right to democracy and self-determination. European Colonies: What about us? -Weasal- Wilson: *_NOO YOUR BLACK RAAAAHHHHHHH-_* _has a stroke_

@why-ng1rf

10 ай бұрын

the team of assassins were trained by the black hand, an anti austro-hungarian separatist movement. they used the facilities of the serbian secret service

Love this experiment. I feel like this would have absolutely infuriated the French. Seeing Germany be more or less the same size after a French victory would have given the same sentiment as the Italian “mutilated victory”. Would we have seen the rise of a fascist France??

@DeutschlandMapping

10 ай бұрын

@@ObscureGun Geodeterministic thinking is heavily outdated and has been severely critisized since the 70's so I would advice not to use it.

@DeutschlandMapping

10 ай бұрын

@@ObscureGun It is general consesus in scientific geography. There basically no more professional advocates.

@jackeinessontjader5291

10 ай бұрын

@@DeutschlandMappingDoes this apply to historical or modern geography?

@DeutschlandMapping

10 ай бұрын

@@jackeinessontjader5291 Both. It is hard if not impossible to seperate the two

@japanpanda2179

10 ай бұрын

​@DeutschlandMapping It may not be perfect but it's the best we have as far as predicting what a country might have done, rather than just describing why it did what it did.

Please do more things like this

@vladimirgunnar7015

10 ай бұрын

yes

@Ksescel

10 ай бұрын

Agreed

@slambam2665

10 ай бұрын

Yes again

@datredhat

10 ай бұрын

Yes, for sure!

@benoneyahaghotu1588

10 ай бұрын

Yep

"Germany Loses War - Gets Bigger Than Ever!" Also, fun fact, Woodrow Wilson actually intended to put Armenia under U.S. administration as a League of Nations mandate; it never happened, obviously, although it would make me wonder what would happen to it when the Soviets came around, as they'd effectively be going to war with America.

@amckittrick7951

10 ай бұрын

Considering allied troops were in Russia to back the whites perhaps it could've led to full allied intervention in Russia.

@TheLoveTrain

10 ай бұрын

God a 1920s war of close to depression US vs Civil War crippled USSR would be just insane and honestly I could see Japan jumping in too, it would be a bull run on Siberia at the least

@MrFarmer110

10 ай бұрын

One of two things would happen. Either America would remobilize and go to war with the Soviets, which would most likely end in a US victory, assuming the American public is willing to foot the butcher bill for the war, or the US makes a fuss diplomatically and doesn't do anything more than that, thus leaving Armenia to its fate.

@SexkeksProducts

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, giving, literally everyone, what they want, so they have nothing to complain definitely raises the chances of a future war.

@JasonParmenter

10 ай бұрын

The U.S didn't join the League of Nation though.

The thing about Eupen-Malmedy: not even Belgium wanted it. They even offered to sell it for a very fair price after WW1, but it never went through

@theChaosKe

10 ай бұрын

*Sad Eupen-Malmedy noises*

@MK-rw1on

10 ай бұрын

tbh even today it just weakens belgium

@Infidi

10 ай бұрын

this reminds me of the Entente telling Denmark to grab more land and the Danes are like "thanks for the offer but we are not contemplating suicide atm"

@piekay7285

10 ай бұрын

@@Infidi fun fact: if Denmark capitulated earlier this would have been the border proposed by Bismarck in the first place. After that nobody ever touched this border again. Hitler occupied Denmark, but didn’t change the border

@Infidi

10 ай бұрын

@@piekay7285 Fun fact: most "fun facts" are copied and repeated so often than they are now just "common sense" amongst the people who frequently watch this type of videos.

This was super fun to participate in. I think it’d be cool if you continued doing stuff like this. Maybe something for the congress of Vienna or the end of WW2.

@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714

10 ай бұрын

Id also love to participate but the man doesnt know that most of his audiance only gets notified of video releases.

@aarongodinez9022

10 ай бұрын

Yes Vienna would be very interesting to see

@thegreatteaman

10 ай бұрын

@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 I mean, that’s probably more of an issue on KZread’s end. If people are subscribed and have the bell set for all notifications and aren’t getting them, KZread must not be notifying people correctly

@Mimi.1001

10 ай бұрын

​@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714KZread has been pushing community posts lately, they at least appear on the start page now and on mobile in the subscription box, as well as through notifications once turned on. But yeah, a simple poll announcement video which is deleted after a week would probably boost engagement quite significantly.

@donpollo3154

10 ай бұрын

Yeah this was so cool

Someone should take these border changes and make a HOI IV mod called Tigerreich.

@lovelylavenderr

10 ай бұрын

Absolutely amazing title.

@amckittrick7951

10 ай бұрын

Yes, that would be great.

@czarsalad101

10 ай бұрын

Good idea. I’m currently learning how to mod HOI4 so I’ll see if I could develop it. Edit: life is too dense atm so maybe in the future

@goose93

9 ай бұрын

​@@czarsalad101good luck

@barkankirecci6939

5 ай бұрын

only problem is this borders going to change in a second after the treaty.

The French would NEVER accept a larger Germany, gaining Austria is like giving defeated Germany rocket fuel. Interesting experiment but it would be fun to see someone trying to sell this idea to the French.

@ganyumaindayone1112

10 ай бұрын

@@ObscureGun calm down adolph

@HSE331

10 ай бұрын

I can easily sell this by showing images of Paris now to them. German propaganda wasn't really propaganda was it?

@LOLquendoTV

10 ай бұрын

​@@HSE331least racist map community member

@HSE331

10 ай бұрын

@@LOLquendoTV What about what I said is racist?

@gagecole4913

10 ай бұрын

​@@HSE331We all know you meant that Paris is filled with minorities you don't like.

it doesnt surprise me even slightly that they decided to give every central power except turkey more land

@advakart4208

9 ай бұрын

it's just blatant racism

A great thought experiment... but that proposed map would've had France IMMEDIATELY leave the negotiating room

@jeffreygao3956

10 ай бұрын

But then, who'd be the French Hitler equivalent? Petain?

@Antarius1999

10 ай бұрын

​@@jeffreygao3956Maybe Jacques Doriot.

@arthurbordet8754

10 ай бұрын

​@@jeffreygao3956 I can't give a name for sure, but we could expect a military man taking on the legacy of Boulanger, maybe de la rocque?

@jeffreygao3956

10 ай бұрын

@@arthurbordet8754 So either Francois de la Rocque or Jacques Doriot teams up with Mussolini against Weimar Germany aka the world's haven for democracy. Britain and France then go back to their old ways of butting heads. And now, I got a new Great War...what have I done?!

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@jeffreygao3956No one because a peace treaty without France in the room doesn’t exist

Petition for EmperorTigerstar to do more surveys like this (Like to Sign) Edit: Thank you for 400 Likes

@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714

10 ай бұрын

Pettion to get him to do video announcements of when they start.

@strongninjagaming9210

10 ай бұрын

Agreed

@MatthewConnellan-xc3oj

10 ай бұрын

Signed both

@technorunner2139

10 ай бұрын

Yes maybe even continuing the history of this map.

8:07 its not a question of feeling sorry. I can almost guarantee you not a single person in france felt sorry for germany. The question is are they militarily capable of fighting germany, and the allies didn't think they were.

@AndrewVasirov

10 ай бұрын

Indeed, the British thought their empire might die after a war with Germany, which turned out to be true.

@spaghettiking7312

10 ай бұрын

WW1 was the twilight of Britain and France as superpowers as it was. If WW1 was the twilight, WW2 was midnight.

@HW-sw5gb

10 ай бұрын

People did legit see Austria and the Sudetenland as reasonable and not worth fighting for. It was only after Germany invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia and then asked for more in Poland people realized their ambitions weren’t limited to German majority land

@marley7868

10 ай бұрын

and this is why france deserved everything they got in ww2

@spaghettiking7312

10 ай бұрын

@@marley7868 Lol.

Honestly it came off as I predicted. The "historical map" community has a heavy pro-Germany bias because they make the maps move the most so giga-germany was definitely not unexpected.

@ekn_38

10 ай бұрын

Not just that but the good old "Greece Armenia Kurdistan" ordeal is in here as well

@TheRenegade...

10 ай бұрын

I don't mind Wilsonian Armenia or Independent Kurdistan, but I don't think Greece taking parts of Turkey is a good idea

@aarongodinez9022

10 ай бұрын

@@TheRenegade... The Turks are trespassers on Greek land

@memeboi6017

10 ай бұрын

@@TheRenegade... alot of that area was majority greek before the genocide.

@andrew-paulclements1502

10 ай бұрын

@@TheRenegade... One can argue that it is reparations for the Ottoman occupation of Greece, with Constantinople being an important symbolic piece as well as reuniting the Religious head of the Greek Orthodox Church with the Greek nation, but it would definitely cause more than a little chaos and lots of conflict, as what is now Istanbul is predominantly Turkish ethnically So while Greece would probably love it, the Turks would probably hate it more than giving up Smyrna

Casual reminder that the Potsdam agreement at the end of WWII was significantly harsher to Germany than Versailles was

@benoneyahaghotu1588

10 ай бұрын

Duh

@angusyang5917

10 ай бұрын

The difference is that Germans truly felt the impact of losing at the end of WWII, but were not abandoned by the Allies, whereas the Germans at the end of WWI never saw the war reach their doorstep.

@Bolitadewien

10 ай бұрын

Well, if you kick someone on the knee, he will kick back. If you broke his legs and separate his body on four, he can't kick back

@fkboyStalin

10 ай бұрын

deservedly so! do bad stuff twice you get punished harder!

@Daniel_Jones

10 ай бұрын

Does anyone argue otherwise? The critics of Versailles (or atleast everyone ive seen) argues thay it was too lenient to prevent the threat of germany again but too harsh to effectively bring them successfully into a post war cooperative europe

Well, France and Italy are gonna be absolutely thrilled to have fought a war for nothing, and Romania won't casually march to Budapest.

@IdrinkSoup-phrog-

10 ай бұрын

New axis would be France and Italy, maybe even Spain considering the Latin heritage

@lorenzodepaoli

10 ай бұрын

@@IdrinkSoup-phrog- More like new comintern - the communists are proven right in this timeline, going to war was utterly useless. I don't see the government of Italy to last long enough for Mussolini to gather enough support to launch his bid; the country would fall to civil war and IMHO the communists will win. France, probably would face a communist Revolution as well. I also speculate that this timeline latin communism would be very nationalistic, maybe even Strasseman-y.

@tortenschachtel9498

10 ай бұрын

@@IdrinkSoup-phrog- That would be interesting. Land war between Germany and France while Britain has to keep the goods flowing trough the North Sea. I suspect Germany should be able to beat France and Italy back with the help of Britain. Now the question is, what are Russia and Japan going to do?

@Ralph-Rainier

10 ай бұрын

I feel like this will probably lead to a communist/socialist takeover in Europe, imagine the French Commune gaining more reason to take power, Republican Spain winning the Civil War, Socialist Italy possible with Socialism on the rise, the USSR, and possibly Yugoslavia (pressuming it would have close ties with Russia and Italy), Romania (presuming it would have been fueled anger with transylvania not being given), Greece (Fueled by hate with the Hellenic republics inability to control the Bosphorus) and Portugal (was kinda ruled by a dictator, and people might look over to their brother for a new ideology) siding with the communists, and given the close Russo-French alliance would definitely make an interesting alternate history.

@IdrinkSoup-phrog-

9 ай бұрын

@@tortenschachtel9498 i feel like a heavily militarizing France would prove quite a challenge, especially since they'd have more of a reason to fight. although i feel france wouldn't want direct warfare at first, likely going an economic route to annex countries in the lowlands. seems like something they might do

2:27; Germany’s Treaty of Versailles 5:20; Austria’s Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye 8:12; Hungary’s Treaty of Trianon 8:40; Bulgaria’s Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine 9:43; Ottomans’ Treaty of Sèvres 10:22; Voted map of the Middle East in 1920 11:42; Voted map of Europe in 1921

@zoltanzzolt

10 ай бұрын

Hungary has undergone the greatest occupation of her territories and her wealth. This poor great country, which saved both civilization and Christianity, has been treated with a bitterness which nothing can explain except the desire of greed of those surrounding her, and the fact that the weaker people, seeing the stronger overcome, wish and insist that she shall be reduced to impotence. Nothing, in fact, can justify the measures of violence and the depredations committed in Magyar territory. What was the Rumanian occupation of Hungary: a systematic rapine and the systematic destruction for a long time hidden, and the stern reproach which Lloyd George addressed in London to the Premier of Rumania was perfectly justified. After the War everyone wanted some sacrifice from Hungary, and no one dared to say a word of peace or goodwill for her. When I tried it was too late. The victors hated Hungary for her proud defence. The adherents of Socialism do not love her because she had to resist, under more than difficult conditions, internal and external Bolshevism. The international financiers hate her because of the violences committed against the Jews. So Hungary suffers all the injustices without defence, all the miseries without help, and all the intrigues without resistance. Before the War Hungary had an area almost equal to that of Italy, 282,870 square kilometres, with a population of 18,264,533 inhabitants. The Treaty of Trianon reduced her territory to 91,114 kilometres -- that is, 32.3%. -- and the population to 7,481,954, or 41%. It was not sufficient to cut off from Hungary the populations which were not ethnically Magyar. Without any reason 1,084,447 Magyars have been handed over to Czeko-Slovakia, 457,597 to Jugo-Slavia, 1,704,851 to Rumania. Also other nuclei of population have been detached without reason. - Francesco Saverio Nitti: Peaceless Europe

Unsurprisingly the internet managed to cook up an even worse and more illogical settlement.

@Hunter-cx6

10 ай бұрын

As always right?

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

Nah it makes sense, someone just let a German diplomat into the room. And a greek one

@darklysm8345

9 ай бұрын

worse by what margin? Actually putting up borders alongside ethnic groups? Fk off

@JarinCOD

9 ай бұрын

@@anon_148 It would make Germany much stronger and they'd win WW2.

@aerohydra3849

8 ай бұрын

​@@JarinCOD The goal is to stop Germany from having any reason to fight WW2 to begin with. The bargain here is to give Germany less reason to be angry before radicals like Hitler take power and make appeasement impossible.

I'd love to see more of this, tbh, for other wars and treaties.

@therealinferno161

10 ай бұрын

I personally voted primarily for entirely self-determination, dividing based off ethnic lines.

@derserthefoxxo3873

10 ай бұрын

Likewise. It was fun uniting the entire middle east without colonialism in play

@Azurethewolf168

10 ай бұрын

@@therealinferno161that was the main issue during those times, if the allied powers hadn’t drawn the borders so oddly a lot of things might’ve gone better. It’s impossible to make a fully majority country but they could’ve done better.

@therealinferno161

10 ай бұрын

@@Azurethewolf168 Agreed, but imperialism and vendettas are not conducive to self-determination.

@therealinferno161

10 ай бұрын

@@derserthefoxxo3873 OH, hey, Derser. Yeah, I basically gave everything but Kurdish areas to Hejaz to rectify the betrayal that is Sykes-Picot, LOL

The choice for Hungary in Transylvania is odd. The intention was probably to include Székelyland, but the map only manages to include half of it, with most of it being in the southeastern corner of Transylvania. In the shown scenario, you include a lot of non-Hungarians in Hungary, while still leaving the Székelys in the wrong country.

@goese868

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, i would have to agree. Including Szeklerland into Hungary is just more trouble than it's worth. It would just include a bunch of romanians for no reason, unless you wanted to make an enclave in Romania. Pluss they oddly streched Hungary into serbia for no reason. I'd just give Hungary the hungarian border poulation in Slovakia and Serbia and leave everything else like the original treaty.

@marcellkiss-redey8451

10 ай бұрын

@@goese868 Including Székelyland would be fine. Not including Székelyland, but stretching deep into ethnically Romanian territory nevertheless, as shown in the video, makes no sense at all.

@goese868

10 ай бұрын

@@marcellkiss-redey8451 okay so 1. What do you mean? It clearly includes Szeklerland. And 2. There is a big romanian poulation between Hungary and Szeklerland so i don't think they should include it unless they wanted to make an enclave, which i think is a bad idea.

@marcellkiss-redey8451

10 ай бұрын

​@@goese868 It clearly doesn't include Székelyland. I did my best to overlay the video map on an ethnic map of historical Hungary here: i.imgur.com/JzTHOk0.png You can see that the border drawn in the video excludes most of Székelyland (all of Csík, Háromszék, as well as a large portion of Udvarhely), while including the ethnically Romanian corridor to Székelyland. It makes absolutely no sense this way... For #2, well, there only would have been bad and less bad solutions. A corridor would have left many Romanians in Hungary. An exclave could have made Hungarian irredentism even stronger (see Germany's case with East Prussia). Including it in Romania is what eventually happened, but I wouldn't call putting more than a million Hungarians in the wrong country a good solution, either...

@SirAdrian87

9 ай бұрын

@@marcellkiss-redey8451 It would not be fine because it would create a Hungarian bantustan in the heart of Romania and lead to war within 5-10 years.

without even starting the video, i knew exactly what this map would look like knowing the community of map-loving 20th century history nerds. i’m honestly just a little shocked that they weren’t able to vote to somehow give all of France to Germany and turn Anatolia into a new Byzantium lmao

@deleetiusproductions3497

8 ай бұрын

Well, there was no option to give all of France to Germany on the poll. That, of course, was unrealistic.

Germany: Loses the war. Also Germany: Gets considerably larger. France: Bruh i thought they lost they got more lands then i did.

@rimpak7748

10 ай бұрын

That's what happens when you let wehraboos vote on something.

@sulphurous2656

10 ай бұрын

4D chess to placate the Germans pre-emptively.

@space__idklmao

10 ай бұрын

Ethnic groups are ethnic groups

@Paciat

10 ай бұрын

@@space__idklmao Ethnic groups are ethnic groups... till they get Germanized: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation

@algoraxmago1527

10 ай бұрын

I assume we all know what nationality voted the most in these pools...

This has a lot of potential. Wars of Spanish Succession, Quadruple Alliance, Polish Succession, Austrian Succession, Seven Years, Napoleonic Wars, WW2, Crimean War, Austro-Russo-Turkish Wars!

its kind of crazy how awful some of the choices the voters picked were lol

@Prxypad

10 ай бұрын

Especially Austria uniting with Germany

@Mizzurani

10 ай бұрын

@@Prxypad Its was the only reasonable choice. Germany was still in a far worse position then before the War. People are just looking braindead at a map and think "It got bigger so stronger, hehe".The real treaty pretty much created a Nation which could not survive on its own (Austria).

@Prxypad

10 ай бұрын

@@Mizzurani In the real World Austria survived 20 years and would have many more if it wouldn't have been annexed by Germany. The fictional treaty gave Austria even more industry than in the real world. People only *thought* it couldn't survive

@Mizzurani

10 ай бұрын

@@Prxypad It struggled enormously especially feeding the gigantic Urban Population in Vienna, while it stabilized with great Effort it was absolutely not needed. Industry on Country Level yes, but geopolitical they would be completely isolated. Losing the only Ally and only getting the rump state of them is not winning or growing. People need to understand that owning Land is not always everything and its way more complicated then that. Preventing the Unification pretty much was self harming for the Allies. Because no Frenchman or Englishmen would be able to enforce that or even would want to die for that. The Problem of the Versailes Treaty was it was not realistically enforceable.

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@Prxypadhat actually almost happened irl, and was desired by the Austrians. It is one of the less ridiculous elements. Providing you don’t count the French and British never allowing it (as they did irl) And when Germany and Austria united in 1938, they wanted to join Germant again lol

This video proves that even though appeasement policy is considered a mistake today, most of us would just do what Chamberlain did out of fear.

@F14thunderhawk

10 ай бұрын

unmentioned is a new clause that these random two specific privates are executed by being thrown into a Woodchipper.

@danielbishop1863

10 ай бұрын

Not out of fear, as much as not wanting to have majority-ethnic-German enclaves stuck outside Germany. Reasons for voting this way may vary: Some people may feel that Germany was treated unfairly, while others just don't want to give Hitler an excuse to demand land back from Poland and Czechoslovakia.

@gaborrajnai6213

10 ай бұрын

Well, appeasement policy wasnt a mistake from a lots of standpoints. First of all Czechoslovakia was indeed a failed state, Austrians genuniely wanted to merge with the Germans, but the most important is neither the Brits nor the French had the military power to force anything on the Germans, especially not in Eastern Europe.

@aarpftsz

10 ай бұрын

@@danielbishop1863 "Land back from Poland and Czechoslovakia" With Poland sure, but with Czechoslovakia? I mean, Sudetenland was never part of Germany. Sure, Bohemia was part of HRE, but at that point Czechoslovakia could have claimed land from Germany on the basis that their lands were the ruling ones a few times. With Hitler, being the manchild that he was, he would find another reason to invade others even if Germany kept their eastern territories.

@therat1117

10 ай бұрын

@@gaborrajnai6213 They absolutely did though. In 1938, the French military alone was larger and better equipped than the German military, and alone could have invaded Nazi Germany. The issue was that neither the French nor British had any particular desire to fight the Nazis because a. it's far more profitable to stay at peace and sell the Germans consumer goods, and b. who cares about Czechoslovakia or Austria anyway, it's not like they're major trading partners for France or Britain. They only drew the line at Poland, because Poland had major investment from both France and Britain that would be lost if the Nazis took over. The reason the French surrendered so quickly was because the Maginot line had completely crumbled, and the French army effectively cut off from immediate British reinforcements, and on top of that, the French lost the majority of their tanks and heavy weaponry in the first outing in the same manner as the Soviets. But whereas the Soviets managed to regroup and fight back the Germans, the French gave up early rather than be drawn into another long war, even though they still could've won if they pulled back and regrouped, as French casualties were not very heavy and the Germans had also suffered large equipment losses (particularly aircraft, around 1/3 of the Luftwaffe was obliterated, as a prelude for the rest of the war).

Would be cool to have more stuff like this, but I was completely unaware that it even happened.

@danilapolesciuk4316

10 ай бұрын

Bro he talked about this 2 times in the last 4 days

@jamesdillon5976

10 ай бұрын

On mobile, community posts go on your feed/homepage of KZread. On the computer, you have to directly go to that tab on the channel page.

@Argacyan

10 ай бұрын

@@jamesdillon5976 I think that was the problem since I exclusively use KZread on Pc & mostly check my subscriptions page, never channel community pages.

@aarongodinez9022

10 ай бұрын

@@jamesdillon5976 no you dont? community posts still show up on pc for me

@pizza8725

10 ай бұрын

Same

It absolutely feels like a lot of the German and Austrian changes were motivated by avoiding WWII (Sudentenland, Gdańsk, Allowing Unification, other Ethno-linguistic appeasements) with little consequence for the atrocities for WWI. Frankly, the outcome of the poll would have led to probably an even worse WWII if Hitler or another like him decided to go nuts anyway, which would be an inevitability with the other (admittedly mild) punishments levied against the empires. Germany would still see an economic downturn assuming they had the same financial punishments, but with all the important land they lost after WWI, they'd bounce back *much* more impressively than they did with the real-world outcome. Germany would just be significantly more powerful. Honestly, it proves just how difficult it is to handle situations like peace treaties.

@Gustav_Kuriga

10 ай бұрын

Ah yes, because the Allies totally didn't commit atrocities themselves. *cough* starving Greece to force them into the war *cough*

@Geegs

10 ай бұрын

@@Gustav_Kuriga I fail to see the relevance of that to what I said. It's not an either-or. The Entente and the Central Powers both committed terrible acts, but only one side lost.

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

The most economically significant land they lost was the Alsace, which they,d still lose here. Them bouncing back had more to do with capable policy than land. People always downplay 1929, without knowing if a global economic crash like that happens again you can’t make any predictions. As the Weimar Republic was actually doing well until then. After Stresemann had stabilized the effects of hyperinflation

@Gustav_Kuriga

10 ай бұрын

@@Geegs You seem to be of the mistaken belief that punishing one side actually solves anything. It doesn't. It just builds up resentment and reduces the legitimacy of the peace in the eyes of the most important population regarding that peace: the common citizen. The only reason Germany even gained land was because Austria's citizens (and this is important, its CITIZENS, not its government) was given the choice of whether to remain independent or merge with Germany. If you had any knowledge of Germany, you'd welcome this because this would drastically reduce the influence of Prussia on the nation as a whole.

@Geegs

10 ай бұрын

@@Gustav_Kuriga Yeesh, calm down. Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Yes, punishments should be levied against the losers of a war. Not to solve things, but to come to a sensible agreement to end a war. That's how terms of peace work. The losing side could always just keep fighting and risk being taken off the map if they disagree with the terms. That's how war works. Did the original treaties go too far? Definitely. Is the community's idea based on the notion that the original treaties caused too much resentment? Probably. The community's treaties here are basically preemptive appeasement. Be civil, pal. And, just for the sake of anyone else you talk at, be a little less presumptuous.

I’m happy that for once, a history youtuber say that Versailles treaty wasn’t that harsh

@thomaslewandowski3724

10 ай бұрын

God that hungarian banat and suddetenland is really bordergore

@chinesetaxevader

10 ай бұрын

land loss wise i agree, everything else.. too far

@asuka7309

10 ай бұрын

@@chinesetaxevader German reparations didn't even come close to making up for the actual material damage they did to France and Belgium, let be the human suffering.

@thug588

10 ай бұрын

@@asuka7309 the french shouldnt have gone to war then?

@bunniifangz

10 ай бұрын

@@asuka7309really? so how come the German economy was so much more crippled than the French economy after the war?

Would love to see more of these, for example: - The Concert of Europe - The Paris Peace Treaties - The Peace of Westphalia and the Peace of Münster - The Berlin Conference - The Treaty of Versailles (1871) - The Division of Carolingian Empire - The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - Treaties of Versailles, Trianon, Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Neuilly-sur-Seine, and Sèvres again, but all previous chosen options are removed

In this scenario, it is obvious that the Treaty of Sevres would be rejected just as it actually was. Treaty of Lausanne would be implemented

@bunniifangz

10 ай бұрын

that sucks

@an0rmalicyz469

10 ай бұрын

@@bunniifangz cope lol. most clever greek. still claiming istanbul after 100 years lmfao. go get a life.

@user-rv6cx3rz7t

10 ай бұрын

Not necessarily. It was not as mutilating as our own timeline. Most ethnic Turks remain in Turkey

@warcriminalgaming2359

10 ай бұрын

Not true, Constantinople was actually a pretty minor city at the time and without the European Powers leaving Turkey nothing but a shell around Ankara the Turks would be pretty satisfied. I’m sure there would be some people pushing for regaining Constantinople but without the British just giving it away it could have easily been defended.

@utkumazgal8555

10 ай бұрын

Our demands remain the same after our recent victory as they were before. We ask for Asia Minor, Thrace up to the river Maritsa and Constantinople... We must have our capital and I should in that case be obliged to march on Constantinople with my army, which will be an affair of only a few days. I much prefer to obtain possession by negotiation, though naturally I cannot wait indefinitely. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in an interview for the Daily Mail

What were people's reasons behind their votes? Preventing WWII? Imposing reasonable, fair punishments without being blinded by vengeance? Making the most ridiculous map imaginable?

@vukbajic4904

10 ай бұрын

I think it's the third

@jeffreygao3956

10 ай бұрын

I was hoping to delay war and avoid too much vengeance and...what have I done?!

@piplupempoleon4225

10 ай бұрын

not prventing ww2, but make ww2 end quicker, fascist france < nazi

@dragance9995

10 ай бұрын

probably all 3 lol

@alexzero3736

9 ай бұрын

I ll tell you, it is the Myth that Germany started WW2 because of Versailles humiliation. So the guys are doing everything to appease Germany.

idk why but the german border with czechoslovakia is making me cry

@hrvatskicetnik

10 ай бұрын

🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿🇨🇿

@JarinCOD

9 ай бұрын

Because giving Hitler what he wants literally caused ww2.

I wish I'd known about this survey when it happened. But the Middle East outcome was remarkably similar to what I would have done. Instead of giving the bulk to Hejaz I would have created a new Kingdom of Greater Syria under Faisal, made the Hejaz Railway the eastern border of Palestine instead of the Jordan River, and subjected Smyrna to a plebiscite.

@nadavsagir8354

10 ай бұрын

Hi Sam! that is very interesting. What is your incentive for placing Palestine's border on the railway instead of the natural border? Also, what do you believe would have been the result of Smyrna's plebiscite?

@Aetherguy-cb9bu

10 ай бұрын

Interesting, what would you have chosen for Europe?

@SamAronow

10 ай бұрын

@@nadavsagir8354 1. The Hejaz Railway was the border agreed to in the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement of 1919, which was contingent on the existence of the Kingdom of Syria. In fact the entire Transjordan was technically part of Mandatory Palestine until 1923, when it was set aside as a refuge for the Hashemites fleeing the French. Jabotinsky saw this as a betrayal of the Balfour Declaration and founded Hatzohar in response. 2. Smyrna probably would have _narrowly_ agreed to join Greece.

@SamAronow

10 ай бұрын

@@Aetherguy-cb9bu Most of them same stuff as here, but German Bohemia joins Czechoslovakia, southern East Prussia stays with Germany, and Austria has to stay independent.

@Aetherguy-cb9bu

10 ай бұрын

@@SamAronow Appreciate the answer and love your content!

I would love to see this become a recurring thing! A fun little experiment to see alternate outcomes for other wars and treaties.

If discord intention was to prevent WWII they failed entirely considering that Italy got even less than irl and so do you know the "vittoria mutilata" was the main point that the fascists used to have the coup and Mussolini directly inspired Hitler with his ideology.

@TheBard1999

10 ай бұрын

No matter how much territory Italy got, fascists would likely take over Italy. The problems had much more to do with post-war economy and veterans.

@Prxypad

10 ай бұрын

They got more than enough for what they did, because they managed to do nothing

@cobragamingxd5935

10 ай бұрын

@@Prxypad (You have absolutely no idea about WW1 and studied it through memes)

@Prxypad

10 ай бұрын

@@cobragamingxd5935 To my knowledge (through Austrian history class) they only managed to get a little bit of southern Tyrol at the end of the war and basically no progress in the Balkan, so tell me where I'm wrong

@piplupempoleon4225

10 ай бұрын

italy military is a joke anyway, ww 2 will end quicker

Boys: let's not punish Germany and hopefully they won't try to invade their neighbors again for the millionth time. Men: let's permanently disband Germany and keep the newly independent states divided and harmless, sandwiched between a powerful France and powerful Poland that will see any attempt at reunification as a declaration of war.

@raphym.3666

9 ай бұрын

the good timeline

@mobiletaskforceepsilon1172

8 ай бұрын

The 'Vengeful Peace' ending.

The Turkish - Tigerstarian War of Independence. Every 20 minutes

I would love to see more videos like this where we get to vote on treaties.

We need more like this! Great video! Keep it up!

I missed the poll but I like the video, I’d love to see more “crowdsourced peace treaties” in the future

Basically every "Ugh, big Germany" map on r/imaginarymaps ever.

This was pretty cool, hope you'll do more. Either specifically expanding on this one or other post-war partitions

This feels less like a division that could prevent WW2 and more like an appeasement policy speedrun

@AFGuidesHD

9 ай бұрын

appeasement is when people are actually in countries they want to be in.

@adrien3019

9 ай бұрын

​@@AFGuidesHDappeasement is when there is a gigantic Germany in the middle of the map with intact industry when all of Europe is devastated.

@AFGuidesHD

9 ай бұрын

@@adrien3019 How is that appeasement ? There weren't any real war goals of the allies apart from "not let Germany defeat everyone and dictate its own terms". Since it was militarily defeated, the goal then, theoretically, was "let's get back to trade and peaceful relations forever after".

@BlackCrafte

9 ай бұрын

@@AFGuidesHD UK wanted the colonies and the War Fleet of Germany. France wanted a weak Germany that couldn't come back for round 3. Some French even wanted the Rhinelands. With Versailles, Germany was not made weak (even more so that France was the only one trying to make the country pay the reparations, while the UK and US were indeed more interested in trades, because they were not destroyed unlike France). This treaty is just making Germany stronger, and WW2 would not be prevented. The myth of the undefeated German army, that started even before the armistice, is what guaranteed that it would happen again. Yay let's leave a disgruntled, but still strong Germany, who thinks it didn't actually loose the war, next to a destroyed country where 1/4 of young men died and which has to repay American war debts. This policy is indeed, as said original commenter, appeasement. The Allies should have marched in Berlin and make a tougher treaty, while re-including Germany in the democracies clubs. Simple as'

@AFGuidesHD

9 ай бұрын

@@BlackCrafte Was the Treaty of Frankfurt appeasement ?

I wouldn't mind seeing a Congress of Vienna survey and your thoughts on the potential ramifications on our changes to the map

If my private situation wasn’t as horrible as it is now then I probably would have been online enough to see you telling us to vote for outcomes, but still it was an great video with good information and hopefully this will get done for other wars too 💜

Gotta love the isthmus of Moravia connecting Bohemia to Slovakia. Really makes Czechoslovakia look even more threatened than usual.

This poll was very fun. Hope you do more!

I actually did my final project on this for my Nationalism in Europe course in College. My map did not look the same, but it was such a fun thought experiment.

This was amazing, not the treaty I think it’s literal dogshit, but the video idea was amazing

@cosmosyn2514

10 ай бұрын

Not trying to be antagonistic, but I'd like to ask you what a better treaty would be?

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@cosmosyn2514The one we actually got

@alexzero3736

9 ай бұрын

​@@cosmosyn2514 it depends, what you want in the end... I believe the balanced treaty would be the best. 1. Alsace- Lorraine goes to France 2. Saar goes to France 3. Eupen- Malmedy divided between Germany and Belgium 4. Shleiswig- Holstein stays German. 5. Danzig stays German. 6.Poland receives Poznan, Katowice. Western Prussia is divided between Germany and Poland. 7. Austria is free to join Germany, Sudetenland gets a right of plebiscite. 8. Italy receives same territory as IRL plus city of Fiume. 9. Slovenia and Croatia are free to create their own country. 10. Serbia receives Bosnia- Herzegovina, Montenegro plus 1/3 of Dalmatia and Macedonia. ( saving Bulgaria- Serbian border of 1912) 11.Dobruja goes to Bulgaria. 12. Vojvodina divided between Hungary and Serbia. 13. Slovakia divided between Czechia and Hungary ( south and Ruthenia to Hungary) 14. Transylvania goes to Romania. With population swap. 15. Greece receives all Turkish land in Europe plus all islands including Cyprus, excluding Constantinople which would become international zone under control by League of Nations.

@doodlebug4360

9 ай бұрын

​@@alexzero3736I noticed you skipped Britain. What would they get because without a doubt this treaty would be dead in the water without their signature.

@alexzero3736

9 ай бұрын

@@doodlebug4360 oh. I just wrote what I would change, everything else same as IRL. Britain would still receive German colonies and middle East

This is probably my favorite video of yours that you’ve released in a hot sec, thanks for the awesome content!

bro i love seeing the notification of your videos, the second i see them my day has been made. thank you for so many amazing videos

Worth noting, the map-making community has certain very heavy biases, namely in favour of Germany, Greece, Armenia and Kurdistan, as seen here Honestly might be the HOI4 effect

@squirtleawesome1064

9 ай бұрын

the Greece favorism is likely more due to EU4. Byzantium is a popular starting country due to the Rome LARP and the underdog difficulty. Also the Armenians and Greeks would have recently went through a genocide so it could be the voters wanting to address by creating a new state/ceding land. After all Israel was created after the Holocaust so to the modern mind it would not be that strange. Finally, the Austro-Hungarian Empire had a similar thing happen to it where new states were created out of ethnic minorities. As for the Germany bias? Honestly I can't explain it, I think the HOI4 theory is spot on with "haha beeg Germany" being the mindset.

@raphym.3666

9 ай бұрын

@@squirtleawesome1064 I think it's more the historical community having a big portion of kaiserboos and wehraboos, you can see it just by scrolling down any reddits about maps or alternate history, around 60% of the time they have big Germany, even if he doesn't make any sense

@hopfinatorischerkuchenkrieger

5 ай бұрын

@@raphym.3666 I honestly disagree. Making sure that as little Germans as possible remain outside of German borders and let Austria join Germany would probably prevent WW2. And it's not like there was any reason apart from strategic or economic ones to give German-settled areas to the Czechs, Belgians or Poles. It was the majority population that counted. That's why Memel wasn't given to Germany, as there were more Lithuanians living than Germans (about 10-20k more, if I remember right) and the Schleswig-Holstein split still happened.

8:57 poor Czechoslovakia with bitten-off borders I think it would be better looking if the northern parts weren’t taken from it, but anyway

@Husicka_

10 ай бұрын

Yeah man, basically same after Munich Agreement-Czechoslovakia wasn't even invited.

@andriinaum1411

10 ай бұрын

@@Husicka_ yeah and these borders were terrible, yet they didn't last for long

@aarongodinez9022

10 ай бұрын

They would have looked even better if all of Bohemia, Moravia, and Austrian Silesia were retained by an independent Austria

@chimera9818

10 ай бұрын

Maybe but it does make it less likely for war to happen (maybe make the borders more defensive lines with culture has main priorities

@typiclyjohny5114

10 ай бұрын

Screw some line on a map honestly, if the people there want to be part of Austria then why force them to be a part of Czechoslovakia?

Very fun video and I liked that you gave the actual history and then what the alternative was voted for

Why was so much of northern Slovenia given to Germany? Germans were not an ethnic majority there. In fact, the area of the Slovene population actually spilled into modern day Austria rather than the other way around. Also, a majority of ethnic Slovenes voted to join Yugoslavia instead of Austria in the plebiscite in southern Austria that happened in 1920, but because of the way the plebiscite borders were drawn, their will to join Yugoslavia was struck down. Also, in South Tyrol, I think the option to let Ladins vote to join Italy should've been given as they are an Italian Romance ethnic group, not a Germanic one. A final interesting idea would be to let the Sorbs vote to join Czechslovakia as it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to let them join, especially since German lost and their Sorb homeland is close to the Czechslovak border..

I wasn't aware of the existence of this Survey and tbh Kinda wish I did because I would've loved to vote and participate on it. Pretty interesting results and would've definitely changed geopolitics at the time. I gotta say I hope you do more stuff like this in the future, I.E. votes on changing the maps of the world/territory partions in treaties. Perhaps a bit controversial but maybe you should do one where we get to determine the borders of post WW2 europe, that would be quite the interesting endeavor.

One big problem: Poland without Gdansk/Danzig would suffocate economically without it. Each neighbour was in some kind of territorial conflict with Poland, international trade would really suffer. That's why when problems with trade in Gdansk arose in 20s, Poland builds entirely new port in Gdynia. I'm not sure if Poland almost without international trade would have enough economical strength to do it.

@Urlocallordandsavior

10 ай бұрын

Poland did build it's own port on the Baltic during the interwar period though.

@kerim.s8801

10 ай бұрын

@@washingmachine6485 That makes no sense but ok. By that logic most of northern europe belongs to Germany because they are related to germanic tribes...

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@washingmachine6485es and older Pommeranian tribes are different to Poles. But more directly, it makes no sense because in 1900 Danzig was 90% German, not Pommeranian. If you want to reduce who should own what down to “we or people we are related to owned it at some point” then you can literally justify any claim. European borders and ethnic groups have shifted a million times Just say you want it for nationalist reasons instead of making up vague connection lol

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@washingmachine6485 well you do own Danzig so stop whining

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

@@washingmachine6485 They aren’t, the city was German and ethnically cleansed and then just resettled with Poles. But I think you are aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed

this was really cool. id love to see this become a regular thing

Loved this video! Please do more like this!

germanophilia in this survey is just frightening

@yazovgaming

9 ай бұрын

it always concerned me

@borakaraca9788

9 ай бұрын

I heard some crying polish sounds :)

I’m sure someone else has commented this, but the board game “Versailles 1919” is very similar to this concept, with players taking the roles of the great powers and dividing up territory to suit their goals. Similarly, there are a few options for most treaty points reflecting what some of the competing proposals were. Worth checking out if you’re a history nerd.

This is amazing we need more content like this

This is fascinating and I'd watch a hundred of these videos easily.

It would be very interesting to see someone continue this scenario to the end of an alternate WW2

I really like the concept although I wished the timeframe to vote was longer and an announcement video was made

This is a sick idea. Hoping to see more of it!

This is much less of a re-examination of history as it is an examination of the viewer base. The Entente powers might have some of their own radical sympathies as a result...

1. Treaties were not only about terriorials switches, but also about recompensations - mainly resources. So France occupied Rhineland with other Allies. Then Ruhr Area. Austria could (in this scenario) join Germany, but both need to pay recompenastions. Allies could antagonize German states. For example little recompensations from Bavaria, Hamburg etc. and still harsh from Prussia. Even partition it - revive of Hannover State, creation of Rhine Republic, Silesia and going on. 2. Poland need access to port - in this case Gdańsk. So Gdańsk could stay in Germany ( since 1871 / 1792 ), but trade would be unresctricted like zero tariffs. 3. What about different scenario of Russian Civil War ? :)

@NorthPoleSun

10 ай бұрын

Why don't Poles just build their own port next to Danzig along the tip of their corridor?

@Dariusz_1.618

10 ай бұрын

@@NorthPoleSun They build - from 0. It was just a village - 1,268 citizens in 1921. Other coastal countries had developed ports. And not only 1. With normal port Poland would have much better trade and would be far better developed. This made hudge cost leaving other part of country in low development for ~15 years. The country did not really start to develop until several years before the WW II. War in which the Germans murdered 16% of Poles. Civilians. Children and women. It must be also mentioned that Prussia / Germany simple STOLE city in 1793. So it was less than 126 years.

“Treaty of Sevres” *Ataturk joined the game*

I enjoyed participating in this! I really hope you will do this again sometimes :)

Looking forward to it!

Not sure if the community likes Germany, or just really hates France.

Problem with this treaty is that no one would have accepted it at the time. If they knew what was to come in the future maybe, but with no knowledge of Hitler, this would be seen as going easy. That is why, given the circumstances, Versailles otl was actually easy on the Germans

I really did enjoy it greatly❤ Thankyou

another great video, very enjoyable !

Great video! If you plan on doing something like this again it would be great if you showed the results of the vote in like a pie chart or something

don't ever let 13yo history nerds decide a peace deal bruh 💀

@pougetguillaume4632

10 ай бұрын

The werhaboo bias is insane on this map lmao

@Gustav_Kuriga

10 ай бұрын

@@pougetguillaume4632 Showing your ignorance if you call everyone that disagrees with you wehraboos, especially when that's the wrong fricking time period.

@aarpftsz

10 ай бұрын

@@Gustav_Kuriga Given that a shitton of "Kaiserboos" are also secretly wehraboos, nope, it's not really all that surprising. Of course you being a Kaiserboo doesn't mean you're automatically a nazi, but looking down the comments on Imperial Germany's anthems, and historical videos concerning them, you really shouldn't be all that mad if people make the connection. Also sure, wrong time period, but since a lot of wehraboos believe that if it weren't for the Treaty of Versailles, and blah blah blah, then the stuff that happened in WW2 wouldn't happen, and Germany could be a "little" happy Ethnostaat or something (provided they get that "rIgHtFuLly GeRmAn" land)

@Gustav_Kuriga

10 ай бұрын

@@aarpftsz Literal experts in the field also believe that without the harshness of the Versailles (and related treaties), then Germany would not have had an environment so amenable to Nazi recruitment. In fact anger would have instead gone towards the leaders of that prolonged the war, and Germany very well might have turned Communist. The Versailles treaty instead turned that hatred towards both the party that had signed it as well as to external scapegoats for "stabbing in the back" at the end to force such a "humiliation". Germany in OUR TIMELINE already almost went communist. Given a generous treaty, they would have viewed the war itself as a mistake and blamed the ones who prolonged it and cost the lives of millions. It seems to me you just want some excuse to believe that Versailles was the only way, and the only thing that can prevent conflict is harsh punishment, when it's shown that only breeds resentment for the next war. Your oversimplification of opinions into "Kaiserboo" and "Wehraboo" whenever someone so much as hints at disagreeing with you shows such a massive bias when looking at history that it's a wonder you even know the difference between WWI and WWII. You clearly don't know anything about the interwar period.

@piplupempoleon4225

10 ай бұрын

@@pougetguillaume4632 fascist french easier to defeat than nazi in case ww2 still happen, spain wont let fascist france

I like the idea of crowdsourcing a peace treaty. Do more!!!

What a fun video idea, was glad I got to vote

Next we need a viewer decided Vienna Congress.

@ilect1690

10 ай бұрын

vienna was already perfect as could be, theres a reason it was called the "concert of europe"

@cvmpro1944

10 ай бұрын

@@ilect1690 I know but we must ruin it in another video like thus

@wp9746

10 ай бұрын

​@@ilect1690 it was so perfect that it started breaking down 15 years later while causing a surge of unrest in Central Europe. all because the monarchs deciding the borders didn't give a damn about nations and anyone who wasn't a monarch, noble or clergyman (for a pretty good reason though)

@JarinCOD

9 ай бұрын

Why though? Vienna Congress was very successful at maintaining peace for a long time.

@JarinCOD

9 ай бұрын

@@wp9746 There was no major war until WW1, it was literally perfect for the time.

So, this channel's viewers are basically "German were the good guys all along"

@derkurier2710

10 ай бұрын

Considering that a post-WW1 Central Powers victory would see a far less bloody 2 World War and (if winning WW2 that would happen the war not Victory) absolutely different world state and best of all no big Commie States

@yazovgaming

9 ай бұрын

lol

Bruh I completely missed this, better next time, this looks awesome

"Germany lost ww1 so it's obvious that they should gain more european territory than the entirety of the entente" the map painters are at it again ...

I would be interesting to see this done again, but with large modern audiences from each of the treaty nations voting in blocks on the terms. Would be an interesting experiment to see what modern history and geography minded viewers from each involved country think now about the terms.

Great video as always

@vladimirgunnar7015

10 ай бұрын

yes

@AmericanCockroach954

10 ай бұрын

There’s no way you saw the whole thing yet🤔

Love this kind of videos!

I'd love a poll like this but for WW2 of even other important conflicts in history

Ser, you really should learn to do video announcements for your pools, this is the first time Im hearing of this and I wouldve defintely wanted to participate. Also of note is that Ive been subrcibed to you stince 2017 and Ive never taken a single chanel survey because again, I only get notifications for the videos of them being closed.

Germany is still split away from Prussia, Slovenia got annexed by Germany, czechoslovakia is in a miserable situation, Italy got even less territory. I think if germany was to start ww2 again, they would have even more allies and be more powerful thanks to this treaty.

@trauko1388

10 ай бұрын

Remember that when Czechoslovakia was created... no one asked the Slovaks... they got taken over by the Czechs. Italy didnt deserve a thing.

@prohacker5086

10 ай бұрын

@@trauko1388 Yeah totally, if instead it was Slovakoczechia everything would be different. Or just divide 'em up, not like they are so small they can't stand on their own against their foes. Italy literally chose the fate of the war on their own by switching sides for the entente at the very start, France wouldn't be able to defend against 2 fronts of both German and Italian hordes, they barely held against just Germans in 1918, and that was with the support of Italian distraction against Austria Hungary.

@trauko1388

10 ай бұрын

@@prohacker5086 See 1940 to appreciate what Italy could have done against France in 1914... I am pretty sure the "you are too small" was often used by the large powers to swallow up small nations...

@Tortellobello45

8 ай бұрын

@@anon_148bullshit, read a history book

@Tortellobello45

8 ай бұрын

@@trauko1388bs, read a history book

I enjoyed this. Please do more

this was very fun to vote in!

Now let me decide the end of WW2!

Even though I know a lot of Austrians wanted to join Germany after ww1, I find it funny that a country that was basically formed in 1156, so 369 years older than the founding of Prussia, not even the unification where it would have been 715 years older, is questioned for it's independence. The main two factors for joining were that Austria was tiny and broke and the that they wanted to join their German brothers.I don't doubt that the majority of Austrians would have voted to join, but as a region in Germany I'm sure we would've developed an even stronger independence movement compared to Bavaria, since we would have been the only region in Germany that had one of the largest empires in Europe at the time. Also us Austrians are closer to Bavarians than the northern germans, like how the German Swiss are closer to Vorarlberg and Baden-Wüttemberg than the rest. Also last thing, over the last 100+ years, we Austrians have developed a more independent identity, not in the sense that there wasn't on before, just that it got massively weakened by both world wars and a huge economic crisis. Austria joining Germany would be like saying Norway and Sweden should join. Ps: Funny that the smaller country had a long lasting empire and not the big one.

@sebe2255

10 ай бұрын

Clinging on to past glory beyond what you were able to maintain is definitely something Germanic people tend to do

@Leo-gi7bg

9 ай бұрын

@@anon_148 true, but it is the first true unified German state after east Francia, and Germany is a result of Prussia.

@Leo-gi7bg

9 ай бұрын

@@sebe2255 Empires by themselves are the opposite of glory I agree, I was just looking at it historically. ps:ofc I have biases

@ingratus8160

7 ай бұрын

@@Leo-gi7bg They could have shifted the capital to a more central city like Frankfurt that has no Prussian relation.

This was insanely fun!

We need Cody to continue the story on this that would be such a fun video

FUN ACTIVITY: Send that picture of Ottomans in 1920 to turkish nationalists for a very interesting reaction!

@user-zp9nf5qo8j

10 ай бұрын

Their reaction en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_War_of_Independence

@Yanate1991

10 ай бұрын

FUN ACTIVITY: Send a picture of actual Turkish borders in reality to a cringe neckbeard for a very interesting reaction!

It’s interesting that a lot of the underlying tension that our WW1 treaties created is still present. There is still a massive global power vacuum and self-determinism as a political principle is still taking a backseat to the Allies creating their own “concert of Europe”. (For example, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia’s existences are still purely arbitrary political constructs designed for European stability, despite their inherent internal instability.) Some trivia: the League of Nations mandates were a result of negotiation between Wilson and Smuts (iirc). Smuts, being a colonial administrator in South Africa, wanted colonial annexation, while Wilson wanted League of Nations trusteeships (similar to Danzig). In OTL these mandates were supposed to be transitional governments until self-governance could be established (like the allied occupation of Korea post-WW2 or the occupation of Austria). I balk a bit at Hejaz being given independence while German colonial holdings were mostly annexed-in OTL it’d be one way or another. /nerd rant over

@JarinCOD

9 ай бұрын

Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were absolutely logical.

Love this. Gotta do stuff like this with other wars. OR maybe we can remake American states or something like that. It’s very cool and fun that you did this though.

This was very fun to do, you should do this again but with a different treaty like the treaty after ww2