I so believe this I am 80 in UK and my physio has got me lifting 2k weights and told me to get up from the chair without pushing my self up I also do gardening, I have several health conditions including being legally blind but live alone still.

@wackthegood8884

4 ай бұрын

Good for you - well done!

@freespirit6209

4 ай бұрын

Well done and Happy New Year! @@wackthegood8884

@carolyntenholter5332

4 ай бұрын

Well done! There is good evidence that ANY kind of strength training - especially if you can increase it over time - can make huge differences to longterm health.

@Elena-kc3vw

4 ай бұрын

Impressive!!

@frankleene8766

4 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉t5.h5 thhhhhhhh 😂🎉🎉bbbbbb🎉😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😂🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉van leven o000ⁿ0

“Adherence is the number one predictor of success with fitness and nutrition programmes, always. Adherence.” This is my key takeaway. Just keep doing it. Doing fad diets or bursts of exercise are not as effective. That’s a useful thinking point for me. “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” Keep moving.

@umbroraban1075

4 ай бұрын

Indeed, it is all about consistency... Keep on grinding...

I work as an occupational therapist in a nursing home setting. I’ve been on a mission at my facility to really push for a sit to stand program when resident’s are seated in their wheelchair, and hip bridges when resident’s are in bed, using a little and often approach 3-5 reps to 3-5 times a day 5-7 days a week. Amazing how much push back I get. But I’ll continue the fight.

@joe1071

3 ай бұрын

Hello there! Fellow occupational therapist here as well. I work in a hospital, and have also been on a similar mission. I’ve really started incorporating isometrics with my patients, especially the ones who have precautions that keep them from standing, walking, transferring, up in the chair etc. Isometric holds mid stand, and isometric glute squeezes when standing. Also glute bridge iso holds at end range in bed…genius! Nothing better to recruit muscle fibers, rapidly increase strength, and least amount of muscle soreness than isometric contractions

For three decades i managed to go the gym more or less twice a week. Not always, but pretty consistently. Now in my late 60s I have never felt fitter. I am so glad I kept my exercise routine going. Consistency over time is the key. I did a mixture of easy weights and moderate cardio, never to excess but regularly every week. This speaker is spot on.

I'm 65...100 lbs, 5 '. . ...I have a super heavy mattress...I lift it ever morning at least 6-8 times to make the bed! It feels like wrestling a crocodile! I have to use quads, glutes, biceps, wrists and hands. I'm very petite but I really feel good after my morning wrestling match!And my bed looks great! 👍😂

The thing I like best about Andy is he just wants you to do SOMETHING consistently. He tells you what's best but doesn't push you to do those things.

I reluctantly committed to watching this on the advice of my missus. Genuinely this video may have added 10+ years to my life...... think about that! Thank you Dr. Andy for being so engaging and sharing the science 👊

Thank you for this. I’ve been managing osteoarthritis in my hip for 8 years and am finding it increasingly difficult to do the aerobic exercises and carry out day to day tasks like shopping. You need stability your hips for carrying heavy things. I was planning to get the heavy foods delivered, but you’ve reminded me that if I stop trying, I may never get my strength back again. I used to be so fit; my social life in retirement was centred around various exercise classes at the gym, Ramblers and a cycling group. All that came to an end with lockdown. Everything closed down and the “adherence “ as you frame it dropped considerably. I can’t do the classes or Rambling anymore. The gym is too much all in one go. I do what I can at home doing various exercises throughout the day, whilst waiting for a new hip, but I have to push myself more and more mentally. Today, you have given me a necessary prod! 🙏

@jillsaunder-airs6839

4 ай бұрын

Perhaps the people saying "no gain, without pain" applies to us!

@skippy6462

4 ай бұрын

Maybe think about what you eat. How Not To Die book is fantastic. Library. Exercise obviously very important but food is crucial.

@paulduarte1646

4 ай бұрын

And Dr. Greger's latest: How not to Age, highly recommended reading.

@edwardscott2510

4 ай бұрын

Do static wieght lifting u don't have move the wieght better for ur joints . 2 x week 15 mins

@bobadams7654

4 ай бұрын

Excellent. Well done. The old saying "use it or lose it" is so true.

It all boils down the the same thing: you need to be in a period of discomfort - wether it be long cardio or short heavy lifts .For it to be beneficial for your health in the long run you need to put stress on your body. Reading a book in the gym does not bring you to the next level when it comes to longevity, health or the increase of overall fitness and performance.

@charlesbrown1365

4 ай бұрын

No gain without pain; no progress without struggle.

Fantastic information. Andy was so engaging and knowledgeable, I’ve hated exercise my whole life but enjoy ballroom dancing and did yoga for years but since illness I have’nt got back to same motivation. This podcast has been a wake up call to do something/anything regularly. Thank you so much!

DARN, get this man back again. I learnt so much that is inspiring and achievable for anyone prepared to develop a programme that is challenging and sustainable. Loved it and thank you both.

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🧠 *Grip strength is predictive of brain health due to the neurological demands of strength training, which keeps neurological pathways activated and healthy.* 01:09 💪 *There is no one-size-fits-all fitness routine; individualized exercise approaches are more effective for different people.* 03:13 🏋️ *Fitness is not limited to cardio or strength training; many forms of exercise can be effective, and the key is the physiological challenge you place on your body.* 12:50 📏 *Measuring VO2 max (maximum oxygen consumption) can provide insights into your fitness and potential longevity, with higher VO2 max indicating better health.* 19:23 💪 *Both strength and VO2 max are strong predictors of overall longevity and health, making them crucial metrics to consider for a healthy lifestyle.* 19:51 💪 *Leg strength is crucial for longevity, even more important than leg size. Weak legs can lead to decreased physical activity and social connectivity as people age.* 21:40 💪 *Grip strength is a significant predictor of all-cause mortality and brain health. Recent research suggests a likely causal relationship between grip strength and cognitive health.* 33:44 💓 *Isometric exercise, such as grip strength training using handgrip dynamometers, can lead to statistically significant reductions in resting blood pressure, potentially improving overall cardiovascular health.* 37:11 🏋️‍♂️ *You don't need extreme efforts; even small improvements in fitness from the bottom 25th percentile to the next level can have a substantial positive impact on health and longevity.* 39:02 🏋️‍♀️ *It's not about annihilating yourself in workouts; stimulating your body through challenging exercises is enough to promote progress and adaptation.* 39:56 🏋️‍♂️ *Consistency and adherence are crucial for fitness and nutrition program success over the long term.* 42:31 🚫 *Accumulated injuries don't make strength training impossible; you can work around them and focus on the parts you can do.* 44:10 🕒 *If time is a constraint, aim for at least one longer cardio session per week, supplement with regular walking, and incorporate short, high-intensity workouts and strength training.* 45:06 💪 *Steady-state cardio, like biking or walking, can be a great option for time-efficient exercise, even for busy individuals.* 48:09 🧠 *Strength training, even simple heavy lifting, can have a positive impact on brain health and reduce the risk of dementia.* Made with HARPA AI

@juliamarsh2077

4 ай бұрын

Great summary

@carolpiirto5613

4 ай бұрын

Thanks

@elizh386

4 ай бұрын

What's the academic paper that is the source of the original research on grip strength? Who's the author?

This is the best presentation I have seen re varied exercise as it relates to, and can lead to, longer life, better health, greater continued mobility and self-sufficiency, and better brain health, including much lower risk of dementia. It's clear, persuasive, motivating, and well laid out. Simply excellent. Watch and listen, then do so again and take notes. To both of you: much thanks!

This is absolutely the best discussion I've seen on Zoe, amongst a great many fantastic videos. Dr Andy Galpin is a superb communicator

@terrytari1891

2 ай бұрын

Neil: I agree, Andy is much better than Zoe!

This is one of the most interesting Zoe podcasts I have listened to. Thank you so much to all the team at Zoe.

This was actually really motivating. Thanks

My favourite podcast so far! Thank you!

This is a great podcast and I've forwarded to entire family. It's a pleasure to listen to someone so knowledgable and realistic.

wow, this has to be the best video I have watched.... ever! I learnt so much and feel super inspired to improve my strength, lower my blood pressure and all the other things that will potentially add years to my life, but definitely quality to my life. His honest advice about the "numbers" not mattering, but doing things that will be achievable to me, regardless of the weight or the distance etc. but doing it forever. I am in! So so many thanks to Professor Galpin. "Dont let perfect be the enemy of good"

Really enjoyed this discussion which brought up a number of points that I had never heard or thought about before.

Andy Galpin’s the best! Always great info.

Such a brilliant podcast, I wish I had this information 20 years ago for my dad 😊

FASCINATING. Had not thought before about more muscle fibres needing to be activated for heavier weights! I always like to challenge my brain to novel learning, now i know i can do this just by increasing the weights i lift. Thank you ZOE

Very informative! I love the way fitness is explained/measured. Just a little step can have huge benefits. And it is all relative to you. There is no need to be a bodybuilder - just including weight training and challenge yourself each time you train can produce huge benefits. Especially for your brain.

Found your channel a week ago. Instantly my favourite health channel. Liked this one in particular as a physio with a special interest in frailty and exercise for people in their later years.

Loved this interview. So much new and good info

This guy was on the huberman podcast if anyone wants more

@bbonkers

3 ай бұрын

he has his own channel too with lots of great videos.

The questions you ask are wonderful. I think the exact same questions. Thank you for all you do.

Thanks for the gut health guide. It was very helpful.

This interview was extremely informative and quite a bit of what Andy said was new to me and very very useful. Thank you, everyone at ZOE -- not only for this interview but for all that you do .

Superb! Amazing new evidence on impact of strength activity on brain health! Andy so knowledgeable and great practical advice explained in common language so well! Jonathan brilliant as ever trying to understand it all and translating 😊 fabulous

That was fascinating. Literally got me up off the couch while I watched and doing weights while I watched. Heavier weights, too 😄 Thank you for the link to the research. I shared this one with a lot of different people of all age groups!

this is the best info and advice ever. thanks a bunch

Really really interesting. Easy to understand with lots of new information. I'm 67 and do a range of exercises but have found the strength training to be the most beneficial for weight management. Now I know it's helping my brain too. Amazing. Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Unbelievable info! So thought provoking! ❤❤❤ it!

I love Dr. Galpin's take on health as we age. Very concise and insightful.

Fascinating information❤ thank you so much for sharing ❤

This was fantastic! A bit overwhelming 😅 but also incredibly practical 😊

My former partner was very fit, from regular strenuous hiking and as a rock climber had very strong hands. He developed dementia and by age 65 was quite impaired. I think it was an early onset Alzheimer’s which had been compensated for by his high intelligence for quite a few years.

@edwardscott2510

4 ай бұрын

He might of had the apoe e4 gene and his might of been right

Really useful - I have been hearing about weights and grip strength anecdotally for years now - this is good to hear.

Great interview. Really makes you think. 👏

This is phenomenal information. Everybody should listen to this video. Invaluable !

Fascinating! Excellent!! I hope you can invite him again!!!

Very useful, thank you.

I absolutely love Andy's positive approach - you like doing this, awesome keep doing it, if you don't like doing this, that's fine, there are many other things that you can do

Thank you so much. This was absolutely the best presentation! Theoretical information presented in an interesting and understandable manner. Specifics of things that can be done. And a tremendous level of humanity and encouragement. I could not ask for more.

Very informative information. Thank you.

Super-presentation! Dear gentlamen, you are both God-sent!

You did well summarising Andy's avalanche of data, thanks.

Excellent, thank you. This dovetails nicely with Prof. Ellen Langer's book "The Mindful Body", mind/body unity, and bi-directional demands.

great podcast! Andys series with andrew huberman is also great!

Such an interesting interview, its made me want to go to the gym more and concentrate on grip strength training. I do lift weights, heavy weight 15 reps, then drop to a middle weight 20 reps, then drop to a low weight 30 reps with 30 seconds rest between each of the sets. This I feel works for me.

Andy Galpin on Zoe, I haven't clicked a vid so fast before! 😍😍😍

Thanks

Really interesting - thanks Andy! I've sent the link to my women's powerlifting club - it's always good to know more of the underlying science.

Excellent

I’ve just ordered some grip strengtheners. Some great tips today.

Of course if you are sat down watching this you can be doing exercise in the living room. Usung bands, weights etc. ive started doing this whilst watching tv. Its not hiit but it's surprisingly effective

Nutrition & Exercise You Get What You Give! Consistently put in a Good effort with methods supported by science you will get results.

As you age, the likelihood of Osteoathritis is growing. I would like to know how that factored into exercise in general and gripping specifically..

@broddr

4 ай бұрын

A recent study found that continuous moderate level exercise causing flexing of joints for 10-15 minutes triggers regrowth of cartilage. Eg a slow walk will trigger regeneration of cartilage in ankle, knee, and hip. Vigorous exercise, eg running will not trigger this regeneration. So in addition to the extreme grip strength exercise recommended in this video, also practice daily gentle movement of your hand joints to ensure that cartilage stays healthy.

@joyjones2376

3 ай бұрын

Thank you

sorry, where are the show notes with the links Jonathan mentions in this podcast? I can't find them. Great interview, thanks!

I am 79 listening to this explanation as to brain traing makes sense. I do Sudoko extreme, waffle, wordle, crosswords but When I lift weights c20 kilo I have to think more as to body movement position. That mankind has lifted weights (body and food) for millenia means the brain will have evolved for these tasks rather than brain teasers.

@shawnmann9491

19 күн бұрын

The movement of weight ( especially with proper strength training) is really effective at keeping our mitochondria plentiful and healthy-plus, the neural pathways between our muscles and brain stay quite sharp-all good stuff !

Very interesting

This Guy is Great

Where are all the links you said in the summary would be in the show notes??????

Imagine how complicated walking is ;) Think about how hard it has been to build a walking machine. Balance may happen largely unconsciously, but it's a very demanding neurological challenge. And then on top of that, everything Dr Galpin said about recruiting more and more neurons

This is the only Zoe podcast where I had a lot of trouble relating to the ideas discussed... actually just pinning them down.

@hazeldellis

4 ай бұрын

Yes I struggled too! I suggest listening again, there is a lot of info and rapid talking, so I plan to listen again, and take some notes!

All quite understandable when Andy explains it but a revelation for many people (including Zoe) I’d guess !

I found this so interesting, particularly the part about exercising consistently and over a long period of time. It makes total sense that we would choose something that we like ! The other fascinating subject was grip strength. I haven't heard this being linked to cognitive function, but as a pianist, the muscles of the hands / arms are trained for strength and dexterity for many years. I feel that this has a profound effect on my cognitive abilities, particularly the right/left brain activity. As a bonus it engages many other complex neurological activities particularly when sharing with others. Just getting it out there for music / the arts to be a major part of our lives.

Some people will hook to any excuse to skip a workout - others contemplate 'right, I am coughing - but not blood; Bulgarian split squats it is''. I am praying for anyone to find the addiction for training - the best kind there is.

Great video. The grip info wasinteresting and they do say GP shakes your hand as a test, although probably not for dementia. I did wonder if someone who specialises in a topic leans to claiming more for it but just checking my VO2 on the Garmin app says 37 in my mid 70s which is the level of a 57yr old.

Great info and thank you for sharing. However I disagree on separating fitness from cardio and weightlifting. Fitness is a combination of both. Fitness is what can you do now regardless of what is thrown at you. Whether it’s weightlifting, cardio or gymnastics. The episode is great especially for those that are lost. I did learn that it’s leg strength instead of leg size that’s important. Thanks again

Fascinating information. Rather daunting for me, though, given that I have arthritic hands and cannot grip much! I had to buy a jar opener otherwise I could not get into airtight containers. I had to give away my knitting needles and crotchet hook as my hands kept cramping up and making me drop things. In addition, I have arthritis of the hip and am waiting for a replacement. In the interim I am in danger of falling, especially on stairs, if I do not go slowly and carefully. I have never been a runner, but used to love walking - not any more as my hip gives way altogether sometimes - without my stick I'd be on the ground. My knees are also arthritic but not so bad as my hip, so climbing stairs is not fun. Coming down backwards puts less strain on the knees. I'm writing this as I know I am far from the only person in my situation, someone else has already made a point about their arthritis... I am old - even my children are older than Dr Andy - but I don't want to give up. I don't want dementia. I don't want to be a burden to others and I do want a great quality of life for the time I have left. I'd love ideas from anyone who knows what they're talking about, to help me, and all the other physically challenged people, keep fit and healthy for as long as possible.

@mscd6174

4 ай бұрын

I’m sorry to hear of your health problems and well done for being so positive. Are you able to get to a swimming pool? You don’t need to actually swim there’s all sorts of exercise routines and classes you can do without swimming. The water buoys your joints so you have control of your effort. Good luck I hope you find something that works for you. 🙂

@wackthegood8884

4 ай бұрын

I have a very good friend who has bad arthritis. She would love to swim, but the weakness in her hands means she isn't capable of holding onto the ladder to get into and out of the pool. I was surprised myself, as we don't always think of these things. @@mscd6174

@annhopley6042

4 ай бұрын

I’m sure there are lots of people in the same situation as you, but anything you can do is better than nothing, he said if it is an extra effort that is good for you! Hope you manage to keep going!

@jillsaunder-airs6839

4 ай бұрын

​@@annhopley6042thanks, Ann. Yes, I was posting as an example as there are lots of people much worse off than me, but I can only speak for my own experience. I was very depressed after the video as it felt like he was saying grip strength is the biggest indicator - and my grip strength is pathetic, so I felt as if he was saying I was a write-off... I usually feel uplifted after these podcasts, thinking "There's another idea I can adopt to improve my health'' but this time was disappointed and left me with the feeling I might as well give up now... I appreciate your response. Thanks.

My blood pressure was a little high. I would normally lift with machines (or support) for safety. I switched to free weight exercises that required that I maintain a rigid core and my blood pressure immediately dropped to a good level. I now think that maintaining the rigid core is an isometric component of the weight lifting and that this isometric component lowered my blood pressure. (switch from supported bent-over row to free standing, from leg press to goblet squat and also do Romanian dead lift.)

Super episode thank you Jonathan. Lots of amazing content and information. Definitely found it really useful. I tried to download the gut guide, unfortunately your link on the show notes doesn't seem to be working. Id really like the guide, perhaps someone could fix the link 🧐🤔. Thank you 🙏🏼

This is so interesting i use to move about most of the day but since carers burnout 4 years ago it has caused ME/cfs and i mostly bedboud and isolated as i now live on my own. It worries me about dementia etc as i just can't be consistent with anything. I really don't know how to get back to how i was.

@annhopley6042

4 ай бұрын

Just start where you can but keep it consistent, even just a little movement to music and use your body as a weight eg. Press ups against a wall. Maybe you can find something online to help with the loneliness. I wish you well ❤

@juliebryan4647

3 ай бұрын

Thank you so much ❤

I am 81 and go to the gym almost daily and use strength training machines, ten reps, three sets. Shame on me, I don't do cardio. Please, Dr. Galpin how should people 80 and older exercice ? I wish I could join you but I am very low income.

Fantastic...............we just have to convince the government support us going to the gyms/swimming pools/leisure centres cheaper instead of handing out expensive medication

I didn't find any of the links Johnathan was talking about?

I'm 67 and I hike, bike and Nordic walk

I am 75 in three weeks . I have done Olympic weightliftning since 1962 . The big question is whether I should skip snatch and clean&jerk and only do deadlifts ? By the way considering throwing away my straps .

From this, I’m wondering if training grip could be a good way for less mobile people/people with injuries to train ‘heavy’ and access the neurological benefits of weights? Surely the same ‘recruit more pathways’ system would be working, but from the safety of a chair? Would love to know if there’s any studies on that, or to hear from any scientists who might know more….

For quality living, mobility and autonomy, I agree that it's a 1:1, and no matter what, exercise is good for health. However, fitness isn't a precise predictor of longevity itself, when you're not doing statistics on population, but looking at individuals. It's a little like BMI. Look around yourself and your own family and friends, and the people who lived to 100 weren't necessarily impressively fit, just decently active and lively. But for quality of life and plenty of other reasons, definitely keep moving!

V interesting - Where is the link to find my VO2 max, please?

do hanging/climbing exercises for best grip strength development

27:34 very interesting. I’m in my 40s and six months ago, I had an injury at work where I broke/fractured my wrist. It is my dominant hand. The bone, according to the x-rays, mostly healed within a couple months. However, my strength and use of that wrist/arm, is not like the un-injured arm and wrist. At first, you’re told not to lift a certain amount of weight. Then, as time goes by, you’re given clearance to lift more. So, I don’t use that hand/arm, as much as the other. Now, I need to use it more, and instead of just the wrist feeling pain, the entire arm all the way up to my right eye hurts. So, waiting for approval of an MRI, however, it’s interesting to know, from this conversation, that even nerves need to be exercised. 🤔 🧠 💪 Interesting information that may help me with my recovery.

@PhilWhelanNow

4 ай бұрын

Grit your teeth and follow your physio’s advice to the letter - or get a good program to work with.. I have had major surgery on knee, shoulder, & hand (4/5 digits affected by Dupytrens), and it takes a year or more sometimes to get the best results. You may need to think of a lifelong adjustment, & accept some discomfort.

@skippy6462

4 ай бұрын

I broke my ankle and after the first year it still bothered me. Ache and sometimes a nerve pain up my leg. It did get better but was a few years it was still vulnerable for example if I curled my foot around a chair leg would set off nerve pain and had to wait for it feel ok again. I didn't do anything specific. Just kept walking and playing sports after a year. Sometimes I did wear a neoprene ankle support (not tight at all) but kept some heat in the area which helped.

@elleffeff

4 ай бұрын

I did have wrist pain for more than 2.5 years after an accident. I could not even clap for applause. Doctor's and PT advice was very limited and not exactly helpful. (Learn to live with an arthritic joint). After taking cheap collagen peptides powder for six weeks the pain has mostly disappeared. I can exceercise with this hand again. The excercises seem to help further, despite some pain while doing them.

There are different kinds of grip exercises. You can lift weights. You can instead hold onto a horizontal bar, hanging from it. There is outside a mini outdoor gym where I can do the latter. Are these choices as good as each other, or is one better than the other?

I wonder if language learning has continuous cognitive benefits. That is, if you learn French and Spanish, does then going on to learning Italian or German continue to challenge a person, or has the brain "figured out" language learning, leading to reduced benefits?

i doubt this very much. My mum had dementia and had an iron grip.

I've just been diagnosed with an auto-immune disease called 'connective tissue disorder' but don't know where this inflammatory disorder originates. Does this mean that specific gripping/lifting weight exercises is even more important ...... or is it more difficult?

Add to health tool box: Walking/standing bare feet on bare earth/grass/sand...instant free anti-inflammatory; tai chi; yoga; for those who are immobile: imagine exercising...the body can't tell the difference and you reap the benefits..

❤ Andy 😁

Health span is more important than life span!

@doracsiky

4 ай бұрын

Indeed, and the bonus is that generally health span tends to lead to increased longevity.

What chart should be used for V02 max assessment? Their are 100's . Does anyone have a credible scientific source ?

There is/has been so much contradictory information running around, that's definitely part of what keeps we laypeople from getting started, because we don't know who to listen to and where to begin.

Very interesting video! Particularly the neural training effect of strength exercise. A couple of thoughts came to mind. (i) The VO2 max predictor for life expectancy - a large number of people in the bottom quartile will be obese (from the definition of VO2 max - it O2 measures per kilogram) and smokers. So in large part, it is going to be a metric that identifies unhealthy people rather than a causal measure from fitness training. (ii) The comments on crosswords having a limited effect on cognition because once you have mastered the skill, there is no more cognitive challenge: There is a strong research base of improved cognition from the progressive "Dual-n-back" mental exercise. More fun for most people would be e.g. Chess puzzles, which are progressive - once I can solve mate-in-one, I start trying mate-in-two, etc. There are excellent phone apps that build in this progression.

What about triggering cortozal hormones if you stress your body too much?

Andy has great range, he can talk about basic principles, or look at stains under the microscope.

Looking for links to how to calculate VO2 Max, and what’s a good score by age? Thanks

@pattyleblanc871

3 ай бұрын

I also would like the link please

Very worrying for people like me with delayed diagnosis and treatment of cervical degenerative myelopathy leaving them with decreased strength in hands, arms and or legs as a result of discs in neck having crushed/damaged nerves in the spinal cord - result of arthritic wear and tear in cervical spine moving discs. Most people get this to some degree as they age.

@skippy6462

4 ай бұрын

How did that happen? 😢