I think that bringing Demis was a mistake, a couple of Knights would've shut down the cannons without much pain if they die. Demis needed to much of your micro which prevented you from really using your missiles effectively, they were all blobbed up in melee at some point when you still had plenty of infantry alive.

@7Rendar

4 жыл бұрын

That and KotH dodged almost all of the searing dooms too so the magic was not very impactful either.

@Northreyar7314

4 жыл бұрын

I would've just used Final Transmutation on the Drakes or if he just brought Searing doom then the Slayers would've been the thing to target constantly.

@khelgarironfist3301

4 жыл бұрын

@@Northreyar7314 Actually Slayers were such a juicy target for Crossbowmen

@TuanHoang-zy7of

4 жыл бұрын

I like using Wild magic against Dwarf. Manticore is just such a good disruptor against missile and gyro. Plus amber spear if shoot from the side can destroy even ironbreaker.

@spitezor

4 жыл бұрын

I was thinking 2 units of cav - and I agree, knights b/c they're cheaper than Demis. Gotta take advantage of that shit Dorf mobility. I'd also be interested to see an artillery duel. IIRC Empire artillery outranges dwarves, so a hellstorm + arty vs dwarven artillery.

The actual tactical reserve, very different from the normal tactical reserve we usually see.

Balthasar Gelt, supreme patriarch of the Imperial colleges of magic, has led a small army to the Pillar of Bone to enact a ritual, when he is met by a throng of the Dawi, led by the king of the slayers, Ungrim Ironfist, who refuse to let him pass and do anything with this great cursed construction of some bygone age. Unable to come to terms, both sides ready for a battle. A pair of witch hunters to keep on eye on Gelt have come as well thoguh they stand with him against these small mutant subhumans, and following them are several contingents of flaggents. This mission even has the approval of the emperor who sent along the bravest swordsmen in the land. Sigmar's Sons. Along with these are: a great deal of archers, crossbow men, gunners, a group of spear men and the powerful demigryph knights. In the Dawis throng are their own clan warriors including the legendary ones from dragonfire pass, may slayers even ones that have felled dragons, irondrakes with fire gunners of their own, a heavy gyrobomber and a runesmith to counter any magics. The canons open at Gelt in the sky in an attempt to drive him back, but being the master of metal magics, the metal cannonballs do nothing to him turning to dust before they hit, thoguh he cannot keep that up forever. Seeing this they switch fire to the handgunners to cover their gyrobomber who move in to fire on the flaggalent who have no armor, along with the thunders. The bomber is still driven back by the heavy fire though who takes evasive maneuvers. As the Empire gets close though they see the technology the ancient Dawi have as fire spews from their lines, driving the Empire back somewhat. Seeing the ranged advantage thoguh the dawi charge into melee, still with literal fire support as their own gunners are outdone, and Gelts magic tilts that fight. To end the fight quickly the witch hunters go after the strange Dawi mage and their leader to give him his desired death. The heavy volume of fire from the empire pours in forcing the Dawi to deploy their reserves leaving them exposed to the demigryphs who finally make their appearance smashing throguh a line of thunders who try to stop them, downing a few but ironically the Dawi forged armor for these men and their beasts is too strong, and so they break into the back lines of the Dawi along with Gelt himself flying in. The irondrakes try to roast the knights inside their armor but they move quickly onto the canon crews, and Gelt and his archers silence them. Able to drive off one cannon crew the knights then retreat from a horde of on coming slayers. The fallgents fight to the last, but finally the dawi break through them, thern chasing their archers. All the while too Gelt is still using his magic to weaken the metal arms and armor of the Dawi. As the knights strike another group of irondrakes the slayers finally catch them and killing several drives them away from the field. All over the field is a mess of dawi chasing imperial troops, a score of small scale battles going on in disarray, thoguh the strong pocket of dawi artillery stands, which drives the Empire back from the accursed Pillar of Bone.

@TypowyKubini

4 жыл бұрын

Indrid lore writing?

Im glad you upload losses, makes the battle much more intense now knowing how it will end

Love seeing the Gyrobomber and Irondrakes in action. Find it strange that people never mention the other buff they got which was an increase to their missile explosion radius from 1m to 2m. Unsure if it has any significant impact on the unit but any buff is a good thing for underused units. Looking forward to more "dreaded" matchups.

UMGI BETRAYERS, THIS IS GOING IN THE BOOK!

@The_Murder_Party

4 жыл бұрын

As much as you’re right, let’s call it a practice match to prepare for the Dawizar.

Question about lore: are wood eleven good or evil? From what I read, they will put an arrow through your head if you get too near their forest, and the wild hunt is just slaughtering brittonians who gets close to the forest.

@samba37537

4 жыл бұрын

well warhammer world is pretty gray. They are lawful but will still hunt brittons for fun

@eldunae922

4 жыл бұрын

Angry Neutral.

@AbyssWatcher745

4 жыл бұрын

@@samba37537 Lawful neutral?

@FruitH.

4 жыл бұрын

Lawful Angry?

@gerryjtierney

4 жыл бұрын

@@samba37537 Bretons

Final transmutation has always served me well against dwarves in the end game

Can someone explain to me why the Dwarves are a bad match up for the Empire? In my experience the Empire so soundly outshout the dwarves that if you bring a powder based build its a pretty easy win?

4 cannons or rockets, a frontline of halberds, and a mix of handgunners and outriders.

T, love your casting - point of constructive critique though. You should of explained at the start why the dwarf empire matchup is so hard. Ofc regular multiplayer people know why but since it's such an unusual matchup on this channel it would of been a good opportunity for a quick explainer.

I just bring a wave of artillery in quickplay, because there's a good chance the dwarfs just box up. Doesn't work for competitive play though.

@alexsitaras6508

4 жыл бұрын

@@____-ju6mx If they block up too tightly rockets can mess up dwarfs

@sirkarliyedidia7872

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah as the dwarfs I've always had trouble dealing with hellstorm batteries, they out-range other artillery and absolutely mess up tightly packed dwarf lines

@ramnozack

4 жыл бұрын

@@____-ju6mx Helstorms are what I use against dwarfs always. Bring 3 or 4 of them and just focus fire and destroy dwarf units one by one. Bring Wulfheart and light wizard to net everything down and your good to go

maybe it's a bit of a meme, but would the War Wagon RoR work as a surprise flanking thing that you hold in reserve/out of range until your front line hits (and cav tie up arty) then zoom the Black Lions in to do quick moving high AP damage?

@lich109

4 жыл бұрын

Probably not just because of how much ranged AP the Dwarfs get, not to mention their Gyrocopters with Brimstone guns.

The 2nd build seemed perfect to me, for what you want to achieve :D Edit: And keep the flagellants in reserve until the chaff (spearmen and swordsmen) break (they will do less dmg than them so just use them for the unbreakable to hold for your ranged) or even intercept slayers going after your knights

Considering getting into the mp scene as an empire/skaven main. I think a warrior priest instead of a second witch hunter would've helped you far more, and given your frontline so more survivability. Instead of demi's maybe go blazing knights since (I'm guessing) they do fire damage and not magical and cost less than demise. You're also one of the few factions that can beat dwarfs in an arty matchup, like skaven, bringing a helstorm to annoy his cannons with a helblaster of your own to pepper his infantry would also be quite nice. I wouldn't bring flagellants they more for low armour infantry spam factions like skaven, vamps, etc; I think halberdiers would be a better pick and more cost-effective too, actually just replace your entire frontline with em, since he didn't have nearly as much range as you did and you could kill it pretty quickly. His irondrakes were short range and a bright wizard could've added some nice fire resistance.

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

that's always been my approach > have the dawi do what they're least good at, e.g. mobility/rush. 3 cannon & 1 hellfire volley gun, plenty of cheap spearmen for blobs, hit the dawi ranged with artillery, then use hangunners to flank and shoot from behind as dwarves march slowly towards artillery. couple of net attacks along the way, some infantry buffs etc, can work well. obviously, map permitting as unfavourable terrain can put the kibosh on the above. but all things equal, that's my strategy

I like there theory craft build a lot. I think that has a lot of potential. Gonna be really micro intensive but maybe once the hand is fixed!? Happy birthday!

I think mortar wagons aren't bad here. You'll be able to reposition them to keep them out of cannon fire (or occupy the cannons if they keep turning), and dwarves are not quick enough to react to the incoming shots.

In 8th ed tabletop warhammer I love using the hellblaster volley gun for shredding heavily armoured infantry

What about a target overload? Drop the Spearmen and the Witch Hunter and grab 2 Mortars. Ideally, you keep your Knights hidden until the infantry gets close enough, during which your opponent can choose between shooting your Handgunners (your primary AP damage source) or your Mortars (which they can only reliably reach with their cannons). However, the moment you reveal your Knights, they can either keep shooting what they were, giving free pass to the other 2 elements, or switch targets, reducing the overall value gained since they ended up spreading damage around.

How to beat the Dwarves as Empire? Make them to come to you. 2 rockets or mortars or 1 each will force them to slowly walk towards your army. Load up on AP and AI units to wait for their battered armies. GS, Handgunners, Outriders, and KOTBS are really good against them. Karl Franz and his sidekick wizard are great options. Badass moustache is good too. Actually any hero plus 1 wizard and priest are good.

Consider a steam tank rather the demigryphs, sword men chaff boosted by a stripped down priest, (flagallents too squishy). 4 crossbowmen. Grim mostachio with the pimp waggon. one witch hunter, one shadow wizard and black lion war waggon ( it wrecks choppers and harder to snipe than static cannons)

@thomaschinyere-ezeh6676

4 жыл бұрын

Steam tank would have four uses bullet sponge, artillery counter, anti armour piece, road block. It is good if used right.

Good luck during your operation! Hope it helps with your pain.

peak thumbnail right there! even better than the MS paint kholek lol

I was wondering about the flagellants lol, but you explained it nicely Also I suppose the Crossbowmen are because of the arc of fire, since they too have horrible AP?

I think an Amber Wizard on a Griffon might be a good choice. Amber spear is good vs. elite Dawi and you get a Manticore. The wizard himself has high AP and mobility.

I think there's some value for Heavens caster, Urannon's Thunderbolt has good AP, kill artillery, most dwarfs are slow enough to eat it, Curse of the midnight wind helps the frontline grind. The passive might slow a gyrocopter/bomber that gets too reckless

Damn, was hoping to see the stunties get krumped.

Empire has some stuff to utilize: greater range with hellstorm. Hellstorm should be good after the AP dmg change. More shock cav. Don't need expensive demis, just need shock cav for the charge. Silver bullets. Sneak in a favorable position Black lions war wagon. This should wreck infantry. If don't have dlcs, hellstorm, knights, and skirmishers.

Bretonnia vs Dwarves next? :) as long as some squires and men at arms with Grail reliquae hold, the allmighty cav might stand a chance at pulling a victory.

Flagellants were a mistake. Dwarf warriors are terrible at killing normal infantry because of their low melee attack. The flagellants' low defense and complete lack of armor means they are the optimal target for dwarf warriors to chew through. Empire swordsmen can actually go toe to toe with dwarf warriors and trade about evenly, which is great considering swordsmen are 400 vs dwarf warriors at 450. Swordsmen also have shields to resist some of the gunfire on the approach. Flagellants don't break, but they die super fast.

I always like a good dwarf video!! :)

Happy birthday Turin! \o/

Seeing witch hunters on the action is just god damn fun.

I've had some success with a rushy build with Halberdiers and Reiksguard. Two units you don't often see. Halbs are normally too slow to be effective in the melee brawl, but against the slow Dorfs that doesn't matter. Reiksguard are strong enough to kill Dwarf skirmishers quickly and pull their weight in the melee brawl, while not being low model count, high cost, like Demis. I think matching the Dwarfs gun to gun is a mistake. Empire is faster, get stuck in and seize the tempo!

Is this still the Case?? Empire Artillery outranges Dwarven Artillery also they Get Magic and Cavalry Which rip through Dwarves it seems

I'm not a multiplayer guy, but what ranged units do Empire have with vanguard? Some RoRs? Maybe put them in the corner to attack from behind, so slayers who guard cannons have to chase, opening up for attacking the cannons, or dwarf ranged have to turn their backs to the main line, making them vulnerable to Empire missile play?

What is your experience with plague of rust in this matchup? I think it would work but I have not played a lot of empire. Searing doom feels a little wet noodle-y

Could you try doing away with a frontline altogether? Take like 5 units of free company and just kite the warriors forever... They would die just as fast to iron drakes but loose formation would presumably help a lot with cannon fire? I am a MP noob so I'd love to know why it wouldn't work

@theStamax

4 жыл бұрын

Big issue is that without shutting down cannons you lose the range duel against dwarves. If you don't bring a frontline they can use their melee units (usually shielded so hard to take down with small missiles) to not only push back against something like free company (so they can't hit their valuable targets), but also guard their artillery better. They'd just shoot you to pieces pretty much and any attempt by cav to get into their canons would be futile. Reason for a frontline is to tie down their melee units basically. Not saying your idea wouldn't work, but that wholly depends on the experience of the dwarf player. Against a good player he'd use your lack of a frontline against you.

respect to turin to have the balls to upload a game where he played like a potato just because the game is interesting. Manies wouldn't have done it

A matchup that we never see - Counts VS Dawi. Im pretty concinved that its the most onesided matchup in game.

@khelgarironfist3301

4 жыл бұрын

Not really. But one of the most fun MUs for sure.

Hope your hand is doing well Turin!

When playing as Dwarves vs Empire in Multiplayer I constantly get crushed by the Hellstorm Rockets, since given their huge range I always end up being too slow to challenge them, so they always end up having enough time to do irreversible damage. How would you counter them as Dwarves in multiplay?

@rorysheridan441

4 жыл бұрын

Cannons or gyrocopters w/brimstone guns+spacing out your units and keeping them in spaghetti lines so the splash damage from the rockets wont hit multiple units all at once

@Hargrovius

4 жыл бұрын

Spread out in spaghetti lines when deploying. If Empire has Hellstorms, you counterfire with cannons and move back with your infantry. If you are getting rushed you just keep playing layered defence. There's a spicy alternative with going for a vanguard rush, but it requires serious APM to pull off and can get rolled by cavalry or Volkmar.

@Moaningbird

3 жыл бұрын

@@Hargrovius I see people knowing stuff here

Can outriders with grenade launchers be a good pick vs the dwarves?

I specifically remember I played a game against ninjahund (dwarves) on tww1 with me (empire) bringing 4 cannons and he had like 4 gyrocopters and got so wrecked he rage quit mid-game :P

@rovers141

3 жыл бұрын

How do you know he rage quit? He could have just saw it was pointless continuing and quit...

maybe replace crossbow and archers with more guns and cav but that would require so much micro.

what about the huntsman RoR to snipe the cannons from vanguard stealth?

Would Volkmar been a better pick in this matchup to wreck dwarf infantry and back up your flagellants?

@lich109

4 жыл бұрын

He's not very good against armour, and ranged AP can melt him pretty quick.

Empire vs Beastmen is always pretty miserable I find. My go-to pick if I want to counter Empire in quick battle (I know nothing of competitive tho)

I like the idea of wide armies with lots of cheap archers, this has always been a bane of Dwarfs. Sadly you just ran out of unit slots. The fact that you had to spend money on wastes like Demigryphs and Flaggelants illustrates that.

Things would have ended much sooner if that gyrobomber got itself over the back line to dump its payload. I’m actually very surprised that didn’t happen.

I know you get into the rust/transmutation/searing but against dwarfs especially someone so good at dodging what about bringing the lead and glittering scales spells. Dwarf resistance doesn't effect those

With this many missiles I think you would benefit more from dropping Gelt and the demis in favor of 1 empire knights, Franz or another high mobility melee lord, and then taking on a light wizard with net and protection (maybe one another?) for your magic. Spend as little on the mage as possible because ultimately magic is a losing situation against dwarfs, but the utility from single-target net will be really high since dwarf units are mostly really slow (could've annihilated that gyro very quick for instance, and stopped slayers from protecting arty), and pha's protection would help your line hold a bit longer, and/or let your ranged units survive a bit more while waiting for reinforcements if they get attacked. You probably wouldn't even need to mount the wizard just take care to keep him in a safe central position. Having a flying melee lord though would give you a better chance of dealing with artillery while also being a lot more useful in the end game after the fight has inevitably worn on (not just flying around trying to use searing doom on isolated infantry). I think some would say it's too vulnerable of a target to dwarf ranged and that's fair but some casual micro can juke the cannons and/or quarrelers and thunderers don't have a ludicrous range, plus this build was otherwise just about killing ranged ASAP anyway. Ungrim would be a problem but with net you should be able to deal with him easily since he's low armor. But ya Gelt is my fav lord but he's just not good for this matchup imo even with Plague of Rust. Final Transmutation is too expensive w/ the -25% damage, gehenna's hounds will do very minimal damage in most cases, and searing doom is way too easy to dodge given its almost 10 second cast-to-damage time (although you used it well by forcing ranged units to move and stop firing back). Glittering robe is OK but I'd much rather have pha because it's cheaper and also buffs melee def., and transmutation of lead is nice most of the time but dwarfs don't really have their damage in their melee anyway. The double witchhunters were nice although I don't think they were as good here as they would've been against another dawi LL since Ungrim is the only one without much armor. Though they might have won you the game if you had been able to get rid of the cannons and kite. This was a really cool fight though and for a minute I thought I was watching a wood elves match. It would be really nice if they could get lore of light btw, I feel it's crucial to having them be a competitive skirmish faction, Prey of Anath Raema is good and all but only 3 casts. (definitely balanced tho bc it's a great ability) :( P.S. hope your recovery is going well! Edit: I played some dwarfs last night and turns out Ungrim is armored unlike other slayers so my bad on that but I feel much of this still applies

If you keep a lot of money in the shape of demigryph knights hidden, won't the opponent know that you must be hiding?

Edit: See you did that after battle: Drop all the empire archers. Not good in this matchup. Need more cav. The crossbows are good to kill slayers. use more cheaper cav try 3 units of emp knights instead of the one Demi. Dwarfs destroy low model units. Use the knights just to throw dwarfs around. Dwarfs tend to not be able to handle more than three well microed cav units. This will shut down their gun lines. Then once you’ve got them running chase them off so that you get some power balance and then pile into them with hammer and anvil. Move missiles to the flanks and hit them in the backs. Make them most effective mobility is your friend.

@theStamax

4 жыл бұрын

That's some good feedback yeah. Outshooting dwarves is almost never a good idea (well in MP anyways). Their biggest weakness by far is their lack of mobility so always solid to use that against them. Probably should take something to prevent them from clumping up though. Wanna keep them nice and spread out so they don't just box (or pseudo-box).

I'm not an expert player or anything, but while playing against the dwarfs in campaign, I try to bring more cavalry to cycle charge when the dwarf warriors chase, and artillery to put pressure on them to chase. Would this be a viable tactic in online plays Turin?

@will.roman-ros

4 жыл бұрын

The name of the game in MP, and really, war in general, is to trade better than the opponent. If so much as an Empire cav charge gets botched by dwarf charge def, and they lose models, the Empire will already be losing. The only artillery that Empire has to outrange dwarves is the rocket battery, but perhaps the dwarves could have more artillery and slow push, or they can spread out, let the rockets run out of ammo, and maybe they couldn't even take out a dawi arty unit completely, and that would be a horrible trade. Or the rockets could use their ammo on other things, but the dawi gun line will still be ready to murder anything that comes close, or their melee line will be so cumbersome that Empire cav and infantry won't have the armor-piercing and vigour to finish. Needless to say, humans are magnitudes above Tww2 AI, and the campaign cheese won't work. The dwarves can shrug off ur artillery, and they can let ur other units tire while the dawi defend their layered onion. The other advantages that stack up are that dwarves are less micro intensive, they have less options for their builds, and that w their natural counters make it very easy for Dwarves to all out counter Empire as a faction MU.

Wouldn't some Empire Knights be good?

Was this Turin's first ever loss?! /s

You could of done a cinematic replay perhaps?

Why not try to outgun the dwarves with triple cannon and force them to move out?

Grenade outriders + artillery maybe?

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

always works for me, 80% of the time ; )

What about Hunters in Vanguard behind lines, once the lines advance bring them out to snipe out the dwarf artillery. If Slayers follow you, they dont have any armour and you can kite?

@bloodraven5533

4 жыл бұрын

Huntsmen are slower than slayers so they'd get minced

@will.roman-ros

4 жыл бұрын

Gyros can also give chase, but that sounds like a good build to have huntsmen challenge arty, slayers, and gyros, and then have outrider, cav, magic support. But then I just thought that the horror to huntsmen would be dawi rangers and quarrelers.... So yea huntsmen get countered by 3 natural dawi picks (slayers, gyros, rangers/quarrelers), not good.

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

@@will.roman-ros Yep, the 90 range hurts the huntsmen here. Maybe pair them with a Zintlers to combat slayers and rangers/quarellers? Probably no good either as the dwarf 160 and/or 145 range would be enough to focus fire the cav into oblivion

@will.roman-ros

3 жыл бұрын

@@krell2130 possibly if the dwarves have a weak build, or you bring enough to distract, or get the timing right. I just think it's too much value for the dwarves to chew on. The huntsmen only advantage is to stay hidden, and the zintlers or cav support can hide in trees, out of LOS, or just ride up at the right time. However, dwarven artillery can pound the cav, or the gyros can munch, and when the gyros have support, they could even take the trade diving on the huntsmen, whom the huntsmen were brought to deal w in the first place. Perhaps it's better to just have the huntsmen stay w the main army to prevent this. Personally, I think it'd be better to use handcannons or for the Empire to focus on taking other armor-piercing units, and if the rocket battery still has more range than dwarf artillery, then take one of those to force the Dawi hand: if Empire wants a more passive ranged build. Having a cannon too could take shots at gyros. That seems more sensible as the cannon can also get value shooting into any dwarf line (where huntsmen would not do more than empire crossbows). Empire can always bring flyers, and/or use magic to help harrass dwarf artillery to keep Emp artillery alive. There's even the possibility of microing the Black Lion's ROR Hellblaster Wagon or a faster unit to attempt to drain dwarf artillery ammo. I say Black Lions bc that seems too dangerous for a dwarf player to ignore, and if they don't take the bait, the Black Lions can happily pick either a Lord/Hero or artillery target. I make it sound easy but in fact it's still tricky bc you don't know that the dwarf player might pick a full vanguard build of rangers and miners, and that would require a more mobile build from Empire, but if Dwarf player wants defensive onion, then I think a balanced build or ranged build will be better for Empire than the mobile build. Black Lions are perhaps the more versatile pick then for Empire artillery, which can work on any Dwarf build, except perhaps if they go heavy in artillery, but no matter what Black Lions will be a glass cannon and win/lose you the game. Best have pistoliers, outriders, or a Lord/Hero support Black Lions. I'll have to do some testing and practice some builds. Huntsmen could be worth the annoyance: coming in from an unexpected angle at the right time. They'd also be good at running around the Dwarf position (while hidden) ready to shoot at routing units in the back or flank w their fire while moving. If the Dwarf player is near a corner or near the back of the map, this move by huntsman could have those routing units run off completely, but that's a role many other Empire units can fill.

Wouldnt one or two hellstorms absolutely destroy the dwarfs because they are so infantry heavy? Have hellebardiers sit on top of it and force the dwarves to move?

@quincy3964

4 жыл бұрын

Sadly I think the dwarf cannons would shoot the down pretty quickly. Unless there’s a map with a hill you could hide behind

@christophblankertz9602

4 жыл бұрын

Warwagons then maybe? Theyre Cheaper and more mobile alloing to preasure with more infantry?

@lich109

4 жыл бұрын

@@christophblankertz9602 War Wagons get taken out by cannons or Gyrocopters.

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

everything else being equal, 1 dwarf cannon can outduel 2 hellstorm rockets. hellstorm too easy to counter (spread out & thing lines) as they're too inaccurate. only any good vs tight box, but no-one will box up if hellstorms on field. 3 great cannon and 1 hellblaster volley gun...now thats a different matter ; )

I will keep saying it in every video I see it happen until people listen to me; don't use piercing bolts-like spells. They are a waste of magic. They will most of the time miss or underperform. At best you are looking at 600dmg with friendly fire being a piece of it. Use surefire damage like final transmutation. A single cast can hit many units, is undodgable and deals enough damage for the cost to only require a single casting at the beginning to justify bringing it. Use the rest of your winds of magic on plague of rust.

Was the inclusion of archers, just cost? I thought it would be all Handgunners due to AP?

@lich109

4 жыл бұрын

Archers are much more cost efficient against Slayers.

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

would have worked better, for sure

Not often I see dwarf win.

some tomb kings vs chaos pls

Wouldn't Volkmar have been a better choice?

What about Volkmar and loads of knights?

@ransomwisley2429

4 жыл бұрын

I reflect your sentiment

It's really cheesy but you'd have to beat the dwarfs at their own game with artillery and force them to move. Maybe even a celestial wizard to snipe cannon models. The last game I actually out artillery the dwarfs, my opponent just quit the game

@krell2130

3 жыл бұрын

good plan of attack, imho. they have no cav, so throw in a couple of nets, you can really open that can of dawi right up!

Any chance you could show a decent Dawi attempt against High Elves? I normally play HE and in quick battles I just feel guilty when I see someone go dawi against me, so seeing someone show it is possible for the dawi to put up a decent fight might settle my conscience.

@jackevnorman

4 жыл бұрын

Felkon calls it the most one sided matchup in the game, and even I haven’t lost it in over a year.

Anyone know how his surgery went??

go dawi!!!!

Isn't Searing Doom just a shit spell when all is said and done? Even if you aim perfectly, it doesn't seem to do that much damage. Plagues of Rust in the front line might have done more damage over the course of the whole battle, and that seems to me to be the whole point of bringing Gelt against dwarves, esp. with your Flagellant frontline and archer play.

Man this match-up just feels so wrong. Its kinda strange that seeing humans fighting dwarfs feels more weird than seeing humans fighting other humans.

@cn.st.182

4 жыл бұрын

PocketCoffee Krieg is it? what other humans? hoomans in-fight all the time!

@BavarianHobbit

4 жыл бұрын

@@cn.st.182 Yeah thats what I said. Humans fighting each other isnt weird compared to humans attacking dwarfs.

Can someone explain to me why it's such a hard matchup? I'm new to MP

@will.roman-ros

4 жыл бұрын

Empire is a magic wielding, good at everything faction, but Dwarves resist magic, and have a ton of armor. The units that the Empire would use to counter armor can be easily countered by Dawi guns and artillery (great swords, handgunners, artillery, steam tank, outriders, demis etc). Dawi infantry often have charge def against cav, and being short, it's very easy for Dawi to shoot over their melee line, defeating cav. When they're compromised they have slayers, and they have gyros to counter enemy artillery, mobile assets, and chase off anything routing. Let's say u think it'll work to bring a bunch of cav vs dwarves. The reality is their ranged will get some value, and the cav will run out of vigour by the end, and still have to face fresh Dawi infantry w charge def, high armor, and melee def. The cav can get worn down w very little micro compared to the micro it takes to control the cav. Everything being said, the dawi player still has a build to pick, and they can play w proportions of the following: melee, ranged, artillery, and gyros. With more limited options than the Empire, and the ability to naturally counter a lot of Empire picks, the Dwarves again find an advantage that they can easily make a balanced build, while the Empire will have to bet heavily on something in order to win: a balanced Empire build is at a disadvantage to a balanced Dwarf build. The Empire will have a much better chance of winning when they try to go heavy in melee, artillery, or ranged, when the Dwarf player also goes heavy in whatever is weak to the Empire pick. What I'm saying is that the only way to win as Empire in this MU, is generally via mind-games, and that's a situation that even the best players can lose, bc no one can win rock, paper, scissors everytime. And even if the Empire goes all infantry, or all whatever, maybe a balanced Dwarf build can still beat it.

Why can't W.H ride a horse ☹️. You can hammer and anvil the Dawi like. Crazy with the Empire. Gelt is not applicable here just bring Frantz and a gold wizard with one spell.

How are flagellants good at holding enemy in melee if they have no armor at all? Why didn't you pick swordsmen for example?

@theStamax

4 жыл бұрын

Because they don't break. Swordsmen you'd lose half your holding power before they even hit their frontlines and then they route way too fast. Sure your flags might die pretty fast as well, but they'll provide more holding power than any other state troop (for their price point).

@adahnyemeth6317

4 жыл бұрын

@@theStamax oh, of course, I forgot about that. Thank you, this makes sense

More please

Your voice is similar to heirofcharthage

less missiles, more cav :)

Why is no one using slayers with great weapons? Why are they considered bad?

@SenpaiTorpidDOW

3 жыл бұрын

They're more expensive, just not needed vs empire who don't have any crazy high armour threats, only demigryphs which you can kill with guns easy enough. Giant slayers are more for killing things like rogue idols, arachnorok spiders, dread saurians etc.

why is this a bad matchup for empire ?

@qrangejuice8225

4 жыл бұрын

Anything the Empire can do to counter heavy armor, the Dwarfs can delete from the game with artillery

@magnuschristiansen7941

4 жыл бұрын

@@qrangejuice8225 okay i just think with huntsman and mass cav plys normal archers plus balthaher gelt

@meltdown4126

4 жыл бұрын

From what I've seen, Dwarfs play it out a lot like the Empire does, but they are better in everything save for cav (which they dont have) and magic (they have magic resist instead). So Dwarfs win everytime as long as they're able to counteract Empire cav play, which is anything but impossible.

@mcpheery3571

4 жыл бұрын

Dwarf warriors and longbeards beat Empire infantry pretty easily, Dwarf cannons are better than Imperial cannons. Quarrelers and thunderers have armour and shields so they beat Empire handguns and crossbows in a ranged competition. Empire doesn't have much in the way of chariots, and their only cav unit with good armour piercing values is very expensive and makes a good target for cannons, copters, and thunderers. Empire is good at isolating large high value targets and killing them with handgunners, Franz, or Boris, but the Dwarfs don't bring large single entity monsters. Empire cav, archers, and state troops are usually good at getting value against more expensive troops, but in the Dwarf matchup all the lower tier Dwarf infantry have good melee defence and high armour.

@eumaies

4 жыл бұрын

empire has some of the most limlited options for melee AP (super pricey demis or a limited number of slow greatswords). On the ranged side, dwarfs are excellent at winning a ranged war, especially when its predictable.

Big mistake was that terrible Empire army composition

warhammer 2 aka rome 2

Empire vs Dwarfs is almost as fucking horrible as Brettonia vs Dwarfs... on second thought nope, Brt v Dw is so fucking stupid

I think your misplays were mostly your magic. Play that better and you could've taken it

Dwarves vs Empire bad matchup? I dunno man, Dwarves are prone to AP range and mobile tactics (two things where Empire is really great). I thought the matchup favors the Empire tbh. And most battles that I see online between these two factions: The Empire player is bringing tons of infantry that would obviously lose to Dwarven infantry and that might be the reason why people has this perception that this is a bad matchup. Against Dwarves I bring 2-3 Cavalry units (I can go very cheap on this one) and a couple of Great Swords (these guys just owns many Dwarven frontline units). I can go greedy with Handgunners and Outriders. Iron Drakes and Bugman's Rangers are tough match-ups but not unsurmountable. Dwarves are one of those factions where the Empire's War Wagon (with artillery) is really (100x) good, although normal artillery can do the job. Amber Wizard if I want to shutdown the backline and Jade Wizard are the best caster choices, Marcus or The Witchhunters if I want to cheese many of their units and heroes. Volkmar and KF are also a bane for their range and frontline units (I would suggest the former over the latter though). This is micro heavy, skirmish/cycle reliant, and I don't often enjoy the cinematics, constantly moving my mouse checking all of my units (except for the Great Swords as I can leave them engaged and expect to beat their opposition provided that they are not receiving any damage from enemy artillery).