The unintentional killing of a brother by a brother with a thrown or shot object also occurs in The Saga of Hervor and Heiđrek (forthcoming in a new translation by me), where Heiđrek accidentally kills his own brother Angantýr when he spitefully throws a rock back into town as he's leaving after being kicked out of a party by their father. Once again, the father is at a loss as to how to avenge his son on another son, and in this case he banishes him. Another motif found outside the Baldr story is making someone who was considered too young to swear an oath into a murderer. In The Saga of the Volsungs (available in my translation), Guttorm was too young to swear blood-brotherhood to Sigurđ and so it is he that his brother Gunnar makes kill Sigurđ. Also note, in the Poetic Edda, another mention of Baldr's death in Lokasenna 28 when Loki brags to Frigg that he's the reason she'll never see Baldr ride home again.

@dawnsteele2474

6 жыл бұрын

Tell me another story Dr. Crawford. Best wishes! :-)

@JacksonCrawford

6 жыл бұрын

For everyone asking about the use of the Baldr myth in God of War, I've spoken about that to the press in two places: www.videogamer.com/features/how-to-put-a-god-in-a-game-a-deep-dive-with-the-experts-into-god-of-wars-antagonist and now variety.com/2018/gaming/features/god-of-war-norse-mythology-1202823019/

@nikburisson9

4 жыл бұрын

Why will Thor not avenge Baldr?

@jacobandrews2663

3 жыл бұрын

@@nikburisson9 perhaps thor loved hodr as well

@Starkodder1963

3 жыл бұрын

Also in Beowulf, where the geat Herebald is killed by accident by his brother Headcyn with an arrow.

"Odin leaps into action... and sleeps with a woman" gets me everytime I watch this 😂

@mistahanansi2264

4 жыл бұрын

I came back for this xD

@jamesbennett6900

2 жыл бұрын

Lol crying

"With his beloved son baldr dead, odin leaps into action sleeps with a woman." I don't know why I laughed

This doesn't relate to anything but I'll put one Viking age Finnish poem here, which is believed to be related to raiding: Teuri took his spear, the spear is not very large Nor is the spear very small, the spear is of medium size: A wolf spoke on the shaft, a cat meowed in the head of the nail. He puts his spear among other spears. The young rowed, the oars bended, the old rowed, their heads trembled. The oar handles whistled like a hazel hen, the oar points sang like a swan the aft croaked like a raven, the oarlocks honked like geese. (SKVR I2 906, 49-62.)

@JacksonCrawford

6 жыл бұрын

Cool.

The Death of Balder is the earliest Norse Myths that I can remember hearing - love that mistletoe spear.

The killing of Baldr by Loki also reminds me of the killing of Balor by Lugh in Irish mythology. Only in that version, Balor is a tyrannical one eyed giant (signifying perhaps a connection to Odin) slain by his righteous grandson, Lugh. However, I wonder if this stark contrast may be the result of socio-religious conflict between the Germanic and Celtic peoples...

I really enjoy hearing all of these different versions of stories and their relations to one another.

taught norse mythology in my schools history club. thank you for getting me interested in something so deep and intriguing

My first thought when the mention of mistletoe as an inadequate material for a spear, was that the gods subsequently cursed the tree to existence as a vine with particularly undesireable berries

Doc! Play the new God of War game, and tell us how they did regarding Norse Mythology. Maybe also a review on Neil Gaimans Norse Mythology book? A series of videos critiquing Norse myths in pop culture would be really interesting!

@saatvikam

6 жыл бұрын

It's safe to say that he'd rather eat lead than play God of War, but the fact that it's driving traffic and interest is awesome!

Thank you for including some Finnic stuff as well :)

I have also heard explanations where the 'wind spear' that killed Baldr was a poisoned blow-dart made from mistletoe. It is certainly possible to make blow-darts from mistletoe twigs.

@tompatterson1548

Жыл бұрын

That would make sense becoming an actual spear in Snorri.

I like Grammaticus' version better of the two main versions - it might lack the important brother detail (which is easy enough to extrapolate), but it still has more of an inter-family tragic quality to it which Loki as the usual antagonist in Snorri's version lacks. It also portrays Baldr in what I feel is a more true nordic light - competitive, violent and fierce, whereas Snorri's Baldr I feel has potential Christ undertones to him that could have been an addition of Snorri's for all we know - particularly so when you consider Snorri's version of Ragnarok which has Baldr, the most beloved of the gods seemingly, be one of key gods to return from the dead in the rebirth of the world - very Christian indeed!

@Tsotha

2 жыл бұрын

Snorri's version of Ragnarok does sound uncannily similar to the Book of Revelation in the Bible...

@casthedemon

Жыл бұрын

Also remember that it might be an older germanic version since Loki is a Norse invention. So the story probably mixed the Germanic and the Finnish versions.

The story being missed about mistletoe being punished sounds incredibly plausible to me and minds me of the story of the dogwood in Christian tradition, which, in its sorrow at being used for the wood of the cross refused to ever grow straight and tall enough to be used as such again and displays the cross as its flowers.

Love it when you talk about Finnish stories. Shame there's so little known about the subject.

Here in Norway the name Balder is still used and a is common pet name. We also have the word Rabalder. Whitch is a negative charged word. Eks. Du spilte musikk hele natta og lagde et skikkelig Rabalder. - You played music all night and made a serious Rabalder. It can also be used when something breakes with a lound noise. Also it can mean a fight: Det blei ordentlig Rabalder når gutta begynte å sloss. - It became a real Rabalder when the boys stared to fight. There is a type of daisy who grows here, That is named: Balderbrå. -Balders Eyelashes. Utrolig bra kanal! Veldig fasinerende å høre om språket sitt fra en fra et annet land, Å du har lært meg ting om språket mitt jeg ikke visste. Skriver dette på Norsk, for det ser ut som du er ganske stø på språket. Stå på videre! Fred

Hooray you are holding fourth on Kalevala!

It's truly fascinating how these stories have spread and diverged over time - just a shame we don't have many more sources to look to. I'm certain that the vast majority of the myths preserved in the Eddas would have had parallels in Anglo-Saxon or German myth, as we sometimes see with the few records of myth we have from those places. For Anglo-Saxon myth, I'm pretty certain we can blame Henry VIII and his dissolution of the monasteries for the scarcity of material. I sometimes lie awake at night and wonder what treasuries of knowledge originally existed. One wishes time machines were a thing, so we could go back ourselves and find answers to all the things we cannot know for certain nowadays. Wouldn't that be nice... Thanks for another great video Dr Crawford - you're a truly brilliant and engaging presenter of all this knowledge. :)

Love the subtitles/notes of the names! Great video! Thank you!

Another excellent post, I'm an American with Norwegian and Finnish heritage, love that Dr. Jackson brought the Kalevala into the discussion, more Kalevala, please!

@BeaufordStenberg

6 жыл бұрын

Kate Vitullo Sami shamanic-religious traditions and Kalevala and Rg Veda, etcetera, are external nodes to the Edda and Saga and archaeology of Sed proper, which help inform the reconstruction of Seidhr.

The mistletoe tree I believe is just a misinterpretation as the tales were passed by word of mouth until they were written down much later on, plus those doing some of the recording weren't indigenous to the original land or culture of the people (who's stories these were originally) so maybe the tree was whatever was native (pine fir? )but due to mistletoe growing on it, it was just referred to at the time as a 'mistletoe tree' in the same way that someone with no knowledge of the name of a certain flower or tree may only be able to refer to it by its color or shape.

After listening to Jón Leifs' musical presentation of the Baldr story (1947) it's fascinating to hear about the different versions and texts. Many thanks.

I enjoy your inclusion and discussion of multiple sources and mythologies here.

Hey, i just realized a very interesting parallel is in iranian mythology. In iranian myth, Freydoun (the third) Has 2 wives, one gives birth to his favorite son "Iraj" who happens to die in the hand of two other half brothers "Turaj" and "Salm".

That landscape behind you looks beautiful

Best channel on KZread. These videos are amazing!

Love these videos! Keep it up! Also, the mountains make a beautiful backdrop

only knew the outline of the story before this - thank you so much for filling in some of the details (the ones that are known) - the mistletoe aspect has puzzled me too - your colleague's suggestion makes a lot of sense - thank you as always :)

You’re the man, Dr. Crawford!

You do this so well, I so enjoy and appreciate these videos. Thank you! Kiitos! Hugs & sunshine 🌞 N

One of the most interesting videos of yours.

I love the disappearing act at the end, Dr. Crawford. Nice touch!

As I recollect, in Saxo Hotherus kills Balderus in the night as he returns to his tent. Murder in the dark = Blind Hodr?

It's interesting to see how these myths are so similar to the tale of Osiris. He was killed by his brother Set (god of disorder) then resurrected by his sister-wife Isis (Divine Mother figure) who collected his dismembered body parts which was scattered all across the land. (in some version his corpse were thrown into the river Nile) Isis then gives birth to Horus by copulating with resurrected Osiris, then Horus sets to go and avenge his Father by coming in conflict with Set. Intriguingly, according to some myths, Set's motive for killing Osiris is due to his grievance over Osiris having sex with Set's wife Nephthys.

Dr. Crawford - - as a Canadian, I am fascinated by the stories of Norse expeditions/settlements on our eastern coast that predate the arrival of later Europeans... Were there any myths associated with the North American continent? Any writings from that period referencing it?

@YOURTECHFRIEND

6 жыл бұрын

Tristan Yeah good question! Let's hear about that

@lindaliljecrona4404

6 жыл бұрын

The Saga of Leif Eriksson describes that expeditions. Not really myths since it happened in the Viking Age not in a far past.

@tristan7848

6 жыл бұрын

Wow - that's way more colourful/eventful than I was expecting. I need to look into these sources you listed. I wonder if Crawford has already touched these subjects...

I know this was posted some time ago, but I wanted to comment and say how fascinating it is to pick out small details of the older stories from the fragments we have left over.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks

Thank you for teaching

This is one of the best of the videos to me, or is the umlaut video a rival?

I have question you may have come across however I've never found a solid answerer that I can say came from someone educated and learned in Norse Mythology. The idea is that Baldr is Odin's vessel post Ragnarok meaning when Baldr is "resurrected" after the finality of Ragnarok it's actually Odin. This is a way for Odin to survive Ragnarok and it would certainly play into the Magician / Magicians apprentice nature of Odin and Loki. It's had me curious for a very long time is there anything in direct translation that "hints" or leans credibility to this notion? I would greatly appreciate your opinion. - Thanks!

Hello Professor Crawford, Slightly off topic question: was Iceland always sparse with trees? I'm curious if the first Norse to land there also found a land basically devoid of trees like we have today. Thank you!

Another great video of which I really enjoyed and gave it a Like. We've very recently told the Death of Baldr as told By Egil Thorsson here at Northworthy Sagas and Stories. .

I just received your Poetic Edda book Dr. Crawford. Is Nanna a possible version of Inanna?

Did you know that it is mandatory to study this in every high school in Iceland? So every one that is in school in iceland knows Snorra edda, gylfaginning and hávamál? Takk fyrir hjálpina btw.

Didn't Baldr represent the "Day" while his brother represents the "Night" and his death explains why the sun "dies" and then is revived the next morning?

I don't know if you are into video games, but I would really enjoy if you commented and maybe expanded on some of the dialogue / story regarding Norse mythology from the latest God of War. I think the visuals from the game would compliment your commentary beautifully.

fantastic video but I have so many questions now (and feel free to ignore this, I'm kind of just thinking out loud) when everything swore the oath does that mean that the giants also swore this oath? did Loki? Is that why Loki couldn't just kill Baldr himself? or was it because he knew he would get punished and was trying to hide his involvement by getting someone else to throw the spear? how much does intention play a part when some one breaks an oath? Hoðr didn't intend to harm Baldr yet he was punished severely, so did the oath even matter all that much. I mean it sets up the reason why mistletoe was used but then why didn't they just say that Loki was trying to be sneaky about killing Baldr and that's why he had Hoðr do it? I feel like the mistletoe was out of place for the story but maybe I'm just not seeing the full picture idk great video though! I really do enjoy watching your videos!!

Thank you.

I always assumed the mistletoe spear was another example of "dream logic," so it's interesting to hear more practical explanations for how you can make a spear of it.

I'm curious what the pronunciation for Mistletoe in Old Norse. I'm looking at naming a cat and I'm wondering if it would work as a name.

Dr. Crawford is the translation of Baldr’s killers’ name “strife”?

@JacksonCrawford

6 жыл бұрын

'Hǫð' (feminine) does mean "battle." The name 'Hǫðr' is probably formed from the same root.

This is a great video love your work, but why is everyone ignoring how Dr. Crawford pronounced Persephone??? 10:41

Thanks a lot!

I also read that the mistletoe was white and turned red with Balder's blood. Also, there are a lot of people who worship Loki as a lovable trickster figure like Coyote etc. I wonder if they know of this story. There was also Forseti the son of Balder, who, I think, became the god of justice, whose name is cognate with the German word Vorsetzer, one who presides or sits in front.

How do "spear" and "dart" differ in the original texts? Is there a differentiation between the different sizes of piercing missiles? I ask because of the confusion about making a spear of mistletoe since it sounds like it would be far easier to fashion a dart instead.

@JacksonCrawford

6 жыл бұрын

Intriguing question. In Vǫluspá the murder weapon isn't named, it just says he was shot (which can mean he was hit by any thrown weapon, or by an arrow). Baldrs draumar calls it a hróðrbaðmr ("famous tree"), probably alluding to mistletoe but not identifying the weapon it was made into. In the Prose Edda, Snorri has Loki call the weapon a vǫndr ("wand") when he hands it to Hǫðr.

hello jackson, great vid! subbed. if you happen to see and read this comment would you be able to try help me with the meaning of a name? i had an afi (icelandic grandpa) who was named Gudjon or maybe Gudjón? just curious what it meant, THANKYOU sir.

Is no one else going to mention the friendly bee? I had to rewind and listen to that part again because I thought I might have misheard. It's a tragedy but there's a "friendly bee" story involved, I wish we knew more. First time hearing about this. History is amazing.

Maybe it was just the tip of the spear made from mistletoe, similar to flint or bone tipped spears used in ancient times?

@jackpayne4658

6 жыл бұрын

Or even a spear-tip smeared with mistletoe berry juice, as a poison. I'm sure mistletoe juice had a reputation for being 'powerful', in certain traditions.

I'd love to hear if Mr Crawford has opinion about the new God of War game. I mean, I doubt that he plays a lot of computer games, but I'm curious is the developers did good job with the lore etc.

It is nice to hear about analogy in different traditions, but it would be rather nicer to have insights of what these stories might mean, apart from some references to possible interpretation of revenge of relatives killing each other .. For instance, for me the story of Baldr has much sense if I compare it with the myth of Persephone from Greece. Both myths might just use a poetical ways to describe the change of seasons on the Earth. And resurrection of Lemminkinen by his mother from Kalevala are having a lot in common with resurrection of Osiris by his wife in Egypt, or even Christ, lamented by Maries. The domestic customs are very interesting to study, and it can give a lot of knowledge of the general mindset of ancient people’s lives, but it only can provide a framework for much hidden processes behind the surfaces of the stories.

Is the mistletoe cursed to be a vine anywhere in this story? I see that added as a reason that the mistletoe is now a vine. But doesn’t seem to be an original part of this story. Just beginning to learn the stories.

0:50 - "...and then having them throw spears or shoot arrows or throw rocks at him. And Loki, seeing this, became jealous." I wanna have arrows and spears shot at me too, dammit! Come on, at least a little stone? No?

@TheEnigmaticmuse

5 ай бұрын

It seems it became a great past time for the gods. I heard him say Loki became jealous and thought how Loki was possibly jealous because his children had been cast out of Asgard by Odin because of his dream that they would be the death of most of the gods at Ragnarok. So Loki never got to "play" with his children because they were cast out. Surely that made him and their mother very grieved.

16:23 bro just teleported away

Didn't you already have a video about this topic?

@saatvikam

6 жыл бұрын

He's been remaking a lot of the older videos as he's learned a bunch about how to make them better. (Also the backdrops are much nicer than his ugly Berkeley office!)

@baseballfan4877

6 жыл бұрын

Ah okay. Yeah, I agree they are much nicer looking.

My favorite god. May peace be forever bound to you all!

Sounds like a spear forged in the fire of the mistletoe, since both would be blades. Seems to match up with the Egyptian story of creation a bit. Where the brothers fight and one is killed and the other is torn to 13 pieces.and only one piece missing.

Holdr and Baldr look like Castor and Pollux,.... who borrow what to who in that case or did the both culture inherite this legend from an older tradition ?

@RawkHawk9000

6 жыл бұрын

Yep, dates back to the Indo-Europeans. Manu and Yemo.

@redcapetimetraveler7688

6 жыл бұрын

thx, i 'll read about that. I still ask myself on which trait of european character it is bound ?

@redcapetimetraveler7688

6 жыл бұрын

after having read the narrative of Manu and Yemo and compared it with Holdr/Baldr and Castor/Pollux , and again comparing them with the narrative of Abel and Cain , here are my thoughts: -in the Indo-europeans texts the brother kills his brother unwillingly or because the fate is inevitable; and this sacrifice has something good and important to create the world as it goes... -in the middle eastern narrative Cain kills willingly his brother by jealousy, he represents all the sins of mankind: violence and greed... -it seems for me that the oriental teaches us a moral lesson when the indo-european prefers to explain the world without moral prejudices...a good conclusion ? or just my cultur choc prejudices , huh ? who knows...

Dude I know Boulder has got some thin Air up there that wow

Man can I have the shrooms that you're on doc???

Iceland wasn't treeless in those days, there were big forests on iceland specially around the south coast, but it was all used up through the years, but i don't know, maybe there may not have been any mistletoe even if they had trees, so they might not have realized. mistletoes aren't even very common anywhere in scandinavia to begin with, except maybe scania and denmark, and some of those hazel-oak-beech forests in some parts of sweden, i grew up in the country in sweden and i've only seen them a few times... not that i've been actively looking for them, but still... On the other hand the climate was a bit warmer back then at least in scandinavia i don't know about iceland, and you could grow grapes in sweden (starting to be possible again thanks to global warming), and a lot of the forest we think of typical nordic forest today ways totally different, like the spruce was not nearly as common, and there was much more leafy forest with oak, beech and hazel, and much denser, with brown dry soil instead of black soil covered with moss and blaeberry bush

Saved by Eric the half a bee

Wait, do you speak Finnish too????

that finnish story has alot of similarities with isis and osiris story from egyptian mythology as well!

When the blind/ignorant give into jealously and hate. All that is beautiful in this world will die and herald the coming of Ragnarok. That is what I believe is moral of the story.

aye, baldur is blessed with invulnerability to all threats physical or magical

Baldır is a Turkish word and used for upper side of leg in today's Turkish but it's root meaning is " attaching " . Vali is also a Trukish word and means ruler .

@AthrihosPithekos

Жыл бұрын

Vali is of Arabic origin. Baldır is Turkic. Both are totally unrelated to anything Scandinavia. The god's name (Baldr) means 'brave, defiant'; 'lord, prince'.

Hmmmmm... I wonder if this video has something to do with the new God of War game... (hell yea it does)

Even Snorri euhemerizes the gods in beginning of Skaldskaparmal (Snorri's Edda) by telling the story of them emigrating from Troy (copying the main theme of the roman Aeneid). He then speaks no more of it and goes on with presenting the gods and their myths. Saxo on the other hand makes sure the reader sees the Aesir as mere humans emigrating from "Byzantium", powerful in witchcraft and duping others into thinking they are gods. Saxo seems to have a clear agenda of firstly promoting Christian values using the aesir as negativ examples (the rape of Rinda) and secondly glorifying Danish history (depicting Hotherus as a Danish protagonist against the Aesir). Snorri on the other hand is writing a book teaching the art of old poetry, explaining the myths related to it in the process. His version is probably the best rendition of the old stories that were once told by the hearths in prechristian Scandinavia. Still Saxo is well worth reading as a complement to Snorri, and the Balder myth is not utterly clear to modern men and has caused much speculation. One might point out the resemblances to Mediterranean myths of the annual cycle (Attis, Adonis, Persefone) or indeed the resurrection of Christ, but contrary to these, Balder never returns from the dead. The dilemma of the father of two sons murdering each other in a clan-like society where revenge was sacred is certainly the best theme to draw from, although this story probably has even more complex origins. Not trying to teach the doctor here (who is quite well learned for an American *wink*). A good teacher should never cram to much information into one video and should want his listeners to learn and speculate for themselves. So that's what I did. And I didn't know the bit about Lemminkäinen. Time to get that book from the shelf ... All the best from Uppsala, Sweden, (where, according to Saxo, "Othinus settled either because of the beautiful landscape or because the people living there are exceptionally stupid")

Wow like I was highly suspecting since I've heard the story of Baldr (now more complete with your cross cultural analysis) that Baldr is behind the Jesus myth and now this is confirmed to me, thank you so much for your cross cultural analysis made available here.

Isn´t it more likely that the Finnish tale of Lemminkäinen was inluenced by the Norse Baldermyth rather than the other way around? Seing that Finland was settled by Swedes since before the Viking Age, I would say that is quite likely.

Rip Litr

You should make a reaction to the game God of War.

Hello (=

@juliaconnell

6 жыл бұрын

hello :)

@MatejRRL

6 жыл бұрын

Hi Julia (=

@juliaconnell

6 жыл бұрын

finally ;)

Kratos, just a godly man.