The Dark Side of P.T. Barnum
The real story behind The Greatest Showman
Credits: www.buzzfeed.com/bfmp/videos/...
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MUSIC
Vanishing Act_Main
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Bouncing Ideas_Full Mix
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Tiny Tantrums B_Submix
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Devil In The Data_Main
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Curious Quirks_Full Mix
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Stealth Tricks_Full Mix
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Hunting The Prey_Main
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
The Painted Smile_Main
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
The Painted Smile_Underscore
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
Bizarre and Bouncy_Full Mix
Licensed via Warner Chappell Production Music Inc.
STILLS
P.T. Barnum
Heritage Images/Getty Images
Phineas Taylor Barnum
Photo 12/Getty Images
Freaks from Calcutta
Buyenlarge/Getty Images
General Tom Thumb, aged twelve
Buyenlarge/Getty Images
Antique portrait of famous people: Phineas Taylor Barnum
ilbusca/Getty Images
The second deluge First appearance of Jenny Lind in America ca. 1850
HUM Images/Getty Images
Jumbo, the Big African Elephant at the Zoological Gardens, Recently Purchased by Mr. Barnum.
Sepia Times/Getty Images
An early engraving of the Siamese Twins Chang and Eng Bunker.
Pictures from History/Getty Images
Mr. Barnum's White Burmese Elephant Toung Taloung: The Elephant with His Burmese Attendant in Jumbo's House at the Zoological Gardens
Sepia Times/Getty Images
Madame Goldschmidt (Jenny Lind)
Sepia Times/Getty Images
Circus Crowd
H. Armstrong Roberts/ClassicStock/Getty Images
Hum-Bug (P T Barnum)
Heritage Images/Getty Images
Chang And Eng Bunker
Archive Photos/Getty Images
James A. Bailey
Buyenlarge/Getty Images
Antique illustration of USA: Bridgeport, Connecticut - Factory
ilbusca/Getty Images
Samuel Root or Marcus Aurelius Root general tom thumb.
Photo 12/Getty Images
Waiting in line for Circus Tickets
Wisconsin Historical Society/Getty Images
Antique photograph: Albert Edward, Prince of Wales
ilbusca/Getty Images
Phineas Taylor Barnum, Circus pioneer and politician, 1810-1891
clu/Getty Images
Circus Winter Quarters
Pictorial Parade/Getty Images
Cover of "Home Sweet Home"
Library of Congress/Getty Images
P. T. Barnum & Co. Circus Poster
Library of Congress/Getty Images
Portrait of P.T. Barnum
Library of Congress/Getty Images
View of the American Museum, Broadway, New York
Historical/Getty Images
P.T. Barnum
Hulton Deutsch/Getty Images
Barnum and Bailey Greatest Show on Earth, The Peerless Prodigies of Physical Phenomena and Great Presentation of Marvelous Living Human Curiosities, Circus Poster, circa 1899
Universal History Archive/Getty Images
1850s FIRST APPEARANCE OF...
H. Armstrong Roberts/ClassicStock/Getty Images
Caricature Of Barnum Curiosities
Smith Collection/Gado/Getty Images
Burning Of Barnum'S Museum
Smith Collection/Gado/Getty Images
Sketching of Texas Ranchman
Bettmann/Getty Images
Portrait of Circus Tycoon P. T. Barnum
Bettmann/Getty Images
Printing the Daily Telegraph newspaper, London, c1900 (1903)
Print Collector/Getty Images
Circus Elephants Performing for Sick Children
Bettmann/Getty Images
Portrait of P.T. Barnum
Bettmann/Getty Images
Elephants Traveling Through Lincoln Tunnel After Rail Strike
Bettmann/Getty Images
Headshoulders Portrait Of Jenny Lind
Bettmann/Getty Images
Barnum And Bailey Circus Advertisement
Bettmann/Getty Images
P.T. Barnum and Tom Thumb
Bettmann/Getty Images
The Hippodrome
The New York Historical Society/Getty Images
P. T. Barnum
denisk0/Getty Images
P. T. Barnum
denisk0/Getty Images
United States, Portrait of P, T, Barnum
Photo 12/Getty Images
Barnum & Bailey Horse Show
Transcendental Graphics/Getty Images
Portrait of Circus Showman Phineas T. Barnum
wynnter/Getty Images
'Barnum's National Poultry Show Polka' Sheet Music
Transcendental Graphics/Getty Images
Henry James (1843-1916) american naturalised english novelist and his brother William James (1842-1910) american philosopher, picture by Marie Leon, 1908
Apic/Getty Images
Barnum Trade Card
Transcendental Graphics/Getty Images
Going To The Circus
FPG/Getty Images
Daniel J. Boorstin
Cynthia Johnson/Getty Images
Victoria
Alexander Bassano/Getty Images
Jumbo On Broadway
Three Lions/Getty Images
Tom Thumb
London Stereoscopic Company/Getty Images
Portrait Of P.T. Barnum
Hulton Archive/Getty Images
Wee Laddie
London Stereoscopic Company/Getty Images
Portrait Of P.T. Barnum
Henry Guttmann Collection/Getty Images
Broadway
MPI/Getty Images
Portrait Of P.T. Barnum
Hulton Archive/Getty Images
Barnum's Museum
Пікірлер: 180
Correction: Barnum's elephant Jumbo died in Ontario, Canada, not California. Thank you to those who brought this to our attention!
@nathanlalande3321
Жыл бұрын
Was gonna say lmao
@AnHonestLiar
10 ай бұрын
Lol you'll said the Wales fell to their death even though they were in the basement. Lol
@Brandonnutley
8 ай бұрын
@@AnHonestLiarwhat lol
@realmadstupid
6 ай бұрын
Did you seriously read Ontario, CA and think California instead of Canada? Embarrassing...
PT Barnum's whale captures made Seaworld look like a luxury spa. The beluga's he kept at the museum began BOILING ALIVE IN THEIR TANKS. Someone broke the wall of their tank to try and show some 'mercy' but they beached and ended up falling as the museum collapsed. Horrific stuff.
@markcampbell9477
Жыл бұрын
You look that up on Google didn't lol but me from Connecticut will tell you a whole different story
@meghanripple223
Жыл бұрын
@@markcampbell9477 are you speaking English?
@manicpepsicola3431
Жыл бұрын
@@markcampbell9477 what tf are you even saying bro
@Fanney47
Жыл бұрын
😔😔
@brennaleena
11 ай бұрын
I’m from CT, please disregard the CT resident above thats having a stroke while attempting to type. PT Barnum is a huge part of Bridgeports history but almost everyone recognizes the inhumane aspects of his circus. Growing up a town over from bridgeport, to me it felt like the focus was more on Tom Thumb and the circus as a whole and PT Barnum was just the guy in the background making it all happen. But that’s just my experience.
I could have guessed that a man who tortured animals had a dark side.
Small correction jumbo died in saint Thomas, Ontario, Canada not California. There’s a huge statue of him when you entered saint Thomas it’s very interesting
not saying that those awful things didn't happen to those poor animals, but don't use PETA as an authority o. anything. they're as bad for animals as barnum was.
@shouldacomewithawarninh4974
Жыл бұрын
Agreed Peta is biased
@luckyhero2517
9 ай бұрын
PETA kills more animals than they save and steal pets from peoples homes they are the scum of the earth using the veil of caring for animals to kill as many animals as they possibly can
@user-sp9bn4xn5n
7 ай бұрын
They’re not worse
@broEye1
4 ай бұрын
@@user-sp9bn4xn5n They're certainly not better, or more reliable.
@imfknradio9978
3 күн бұрын
@@user-sp9bn4xn5nyes they are, in terms of abusing animals. Theyve been sued several times for kidnapping family pets and euthanizing them. 90% of their stunts results in mass deaths for the animals theyre "trying to protect". IE Releasing a bunch of lobsters into the a freshwater river.
Damn why did they make p t so handsome while he looks like a founding father irl
@Tostito422
Жыл бұрын
PT was old there, he was mid 30s in the movie
@TomasTitan08
Жыл бұрын
Don’t diss my boy, Hamilton.
@KBGVideos1
Жыл бұрын
Casting Hugh Jackman in a film always makes the character look handsome
@ArizonaAngelEyes
3 ай бұрын
Because all the people that think Hugh is hot would be guaranteed to watch the movie at least once.
@djgroopz4952
3 ай бұрын
Lol, this is what an older person from the 1800s looked like.
Several of my ancestors were carnies for PT Barnum as trapeze artists and tight rope walkers
@dreamsteddybearsmaster
Жыл бұрын
How interesting! Do you know what they said/thought of him?
And this is why I can't, "get over it, it's just a movie," with 'The Greatest Showman.' Spectacular performances, especially by Jackman, but it's just more revisionist history that, despite it being "just a film," people will latch onto and believe as truth because it's, "based on a true story." No, it's based on the lies Barnum wanted the public to believe while being an absolutely appalling person. There are plenty of people who can love the movie as a film, and detest the man, but that's not going to be the majority of people. On top of that, it's very existence in the way it portrayed Barnum says that, the people who made the film are either wilfully ignorant of the truth of Barnum, or they cosigned the racist shiesty things he stood for. Either way, not a good look imo.
@morelorel
Жыл бұрын
triggereddddd
@cody8804
11 ай бұрын
As this very video explains “the greatest show on earth” moniker started after barnums death when ringling brothers, Barnum and bailey merged. That’s 8 men. Are they all evil racists or do you think maybe humans are complicated. Greatest Showman wasn’t “about” any of them. Just a movie about the circus. In short get over it, it’s just a movie
@AnHonestLiar
10 ай бұрын
It's was the 1850s too lol Nobody's perfect, and Barnum paid good too
@TheOminousBlade
8 ай бұрын
@@AnHonestLiarYeah man, autopsying a women and having people pay for it was a normal side hustle in the 1800’s, grow a pair.
@fishcakepro
6 ай бұрын
I think the reason it's extra egregious is bc one of the themes is being yourself no matter what other people think of you. The historical Barnum's actions were the exact opposite of that idea.
What if we get L.M. Miranda to write a hit musical about him being an absolute s$%^ monster. Jackman could still star in it.
@tinaht
8 ай бұрын
....we need this
@terranabram5430
8 ай бұрын
Good idea
I have been told by my grandma that P.T. Barnum is my 16th cousin and looking at pictures of my great grandma I can see the family resemblance.
@amyclarke41
11 ай бұрын
I prefer the fake story of him i.e. greatest showman and Barium
@Meowmeow0506
8 ай бұрын
if that's truly the case then you're my distant cousin as well.
@Max-mm1gt
7 ай бұрын
That’s what I have been told as well
Buzzfeed burying everyone who I thought were great people 🔪💀
@TheJinxanna
Жыл бұрын
Don’t listen to Behind the Bastards or Dark History. (But do bc they’re both great)
@desireeespinosa3954
Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately greatness requires unsavory set of personal traits. Traits that normal people would be (and are) horrified by. Greed, narcissism, and usually some sociopathic tendencies to name a few. 😉
@agcons
Жыл бұрын
@@TheJinxanna I'm a fan of Dark History but thanks for pointing out Behind the Bastards - off to have a look.
@9ninrninr947
Жыл бұрын
Its Buzzfeed. Theyre not exactly great people themselves....
Awesome job on the story telling
Jumbo died in my home town in canada not califorina😂😂
@saphira_
Жыл бұрын
Must have passed that statue a thousand times, didn't realize we were in California 🤣
@RandomVids519
Жыл бұрын
@@saphira_ haha same close to my house such a small town
@fishoutofwater3670
Жыл бұрын
I live in the California version of ontario and I literally never heard of that before so atleast my questions have been cleared 💀
Dark side? I knew he was a crook and not a likeable person before and when the movie came out it was a laugh cause it was so loosely based
Never liked the circus. Guess I was right to never go to one
@zachfor3855
Ай бұрын
They aren’t like that at all circus anymore!
Just love how after demolishing the credibility of ghouls, now BuzzFeed unsolved is doing the same to the once-beloved figures
@berthaschwarze6704
Жыл бұрын
Good that this „secret“ is finally unveiled
@Claire_Loves_Music
Жыл бұрын
"Once beloved" 😂
@stanleyjohanson6720
Жыл бұрын
@@Claire_Loves_Music Gotta admit, "beloved" is a bit strong lol
@StuckonStupid84
Жыл бұрын
I don't think anyone even knew who he was until the movie released.
@tiffanykim2773
Жыл бұрын
What are you smoking 😂
“Greatest show on earth you know we turn it out daily. In and out of town, like Barnum and Bailey” - 311
You forgot to mention that Jumbo was the parent of "Jennie". An elephant owned by Houdini. Which was featured in Houdini's grand illusion of Vanishing an Elephant.
So, from what I'm hearing so far, he's the real life Grunkle Stan? Edit - Grunkle Stan with a whole lot of racism, among other morally upsetting things. Stan may not have been a role model, but he's a much better one than Barnum
Am I the only one annoyed by his pronounciation of museum
@mrsapplez2007
Жыл бұрын
Just heard it. YES. Whats wrong with him lol
@pickford3152
Жыл бұрын
And the fact he said st Thomas Ontario is in California?! 😂 it’s in Canada
My parents took me and my siblings to see the P.T. Barnum Circus(Later renamed the Barnum & Bailey Circus) when they came into town when I was 11 years old back in 2015 and I remember that I was crying and wanted to leave during the performance so badly due to the treatment of the animals. Some of the animals were whipped so bad during the performance that they flinched. I remember that during the performances, the tigers were sitting on their stools that their trainer has them sit on and we’re doing what they were trained to do. And they were just getting whipped something awful. And another trainer went up to one of the camels and spat right in its face for no reason. And during the elephants performance, I could see that the elephants had those shackles that have the spikes on their feet. Due to the brightness of the lights, I could also see that one of the elephants was bleeding from its foot and was limping the entire performance. I’m glad that this circus got shut down because no animal deserves such awful treatment 😔💔
Intriguing, I always knew there was more to life and i have also been looking for a way to find not only protection but a way to be influential to the human society
@bartholetbay412
Жыл бұрын
oh well you can achieve that by being a part of the illuminatus brotherhood, i know it sounds like a mystery but there are ways you can actually get in contact with them.
@haynesatteh4463
Жыл бұрын
@@bartholetbay412 hi, isn't the brotherhood a myth?
@bartholetbay412
Жыл бұрын
@@haynesatteh4463 Well it is not and you can't actually expect it to be open to everyone, but if you want to know more you can look up ANTHONY MARK SZYMON online you will find something interesting..
@haynesatteh4463
Жыл бұрын
@@bartholetbay412 oh really, i just saw his website, interesting.i will leave him a message
good one. thank you
Jumbo was killed in St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada, not California
@pickford3152
Жыл бұрын
😂 I know what a knob
General Thumb kinda looks like Hasbullah
@ruipinho1814
Жыл бұрын
who the hell is John Thumb? LOL
@morelorel
Жыл бұрын
😂
Different times in life. Hard to judge. The principles of that time is not the same these days. He still a legend.
I loved the video but every time the narrator said museum, I got ripped out of the story. I've never heard that pronunciation before.
Dude was real life Grunkle Stan
if anyone knows bridgeport, they know the PT barnum apartments lol, not a good place to live
He was right. People want to be duped. Look at Facebook Twitter and KZread today.
10:58 jumbo was struck in st thomas Ontario canada, not california lol isn't Ontario California a city? Why would there be a city inside a city inside a state lol
The greatest showman just got ruined for me, it was my whole childhood😢
the musAM
Sorry.. peta is not a resource to be named as the ones who know it...
P.T. Barnum was a bit of a precursor to Edward Bernays, in that he realized people knew they were being deceived and wilfully desired (to even pay for it) while it also was a bit of a "bread and circus," and essential to a functional democracy.
😂 Everyone always thinks of Ontario CA as on ontario California before they think of Ontario Canada. Not super surprised because Americans don’t know much about us
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
Or, nobody thinks about Canada
He was a capitalist. Capitalism as an ideology is sociopathic in nature. He is a clear example of this.
@9ninrninr947
Жыл бұрын
Russell, just get a job already. You're not relocating anyone's stuff. Get over it.
So how long before disney+ removes the greatest showman off their streaming service? Lol
Read the book THE DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY it has more info
What in the hell is the background noise that starts a lil after 4 mins in
Had P.T. Been alive today.........he would have been a republican president.
Couldn’t even escape this jag weed in death.
chang and aang turned out to own slaves when they retired :(
I still think the movie was decent.
Who is narrating this?
so crazy
Hugh was great but Michael Crawford kicked it in the park in 81!A
@amyclarke41
11 ай бұрын
the real 1 was lets say odd
yeah but like the songs in the movie go hard
DUDE THE GREATEST SHOWMAN IS MY FAVORITE MOVIE AND I CAOULDNT BELIEVE WHEN I SAW THIS VIDEO
They don't compare to universal circus
I think people still enjoy being "conned"--giving the "reality TV" craze. I see very little difference. As much as people might like to believe those featured on these shows are as they appear--it's NOT REALITY. Maybe some of it is ( the challenges that "little people" deal with in a world made for those of regular height, etc and KZread channels that cover children with various conditions and the parents who are raising them). Most is downright STAGED. We NEVER openly were shown the dark side of the Duggars, nor the Kardashians without makeup. I think despite our technical advances, human nature remains the same. We still want to be entertained, the chance to see the unusual and abnormal and to wrap our heads around the bizarre. P T Barnum made it possible for the humans in his shows to make a decent living--in a time they otherwise couldn't have. As for animals--humans have tons more knowledge about the animal kingdom now than they did in the mid 1800's....in part because of captivity and museums. We're all a mixed bag of positive and negative traits. P T Barnum was a man of the times he lived in and a whole lot better of a human than many in the history books. It's generally not advised to try to judge anyone without considering the historical setting, common thoughts and beliefs held at that time and how they contrast to today's. The man was faithful to his wife, he paid his entire crew and piqued human curiousity and filled a need in what otherwise was a difficult existence without the comforts, luxuries and the things we take for granted today. The very fact the circus survived for over 100 years is testimony to his genius. He brought his performance to Abraham Lincoln and Queen Victoria! How many reality TV shows have accomplished THAT?
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
Read what he did to Joice Heth. He was NOT a mixed bag.
Yeahhh
CA = Canada!!!
@agcons
Жыл бұрын
This is why at work we prefer the ISO 3166 three-character country codes: CAN will never be confused with CA.
bring back buzzfeed unsolved
@justdandy6985
Жыл бұрын
Ghost files will be better
@raymondmorlock1920
Жыл бұрын
@@justdandy6985 nothing will be better
It kind of sucks that such a great movie, and actors and songs needed to base their script on this wretched person. But lets be honest, you look back at any of those people living at the time, most of them did horrible things to people. Barnum wasnt the only one who had a circus of curiositys and neither was he the only one who mistread animals, exotic or otherwise. It would be fair to assume that that particular era was filled with exploitation of people and resources, slavery, scams from the simple to the complex, untold levels of racism and massacres. And guess what its still going on. People have just figured new and better ways not to get caught is all. Same problems, different eras
@morelorel
Жыл бұрын
it was the victorian times they had no sense wtf do u expect
@videosammy
Жыл бұрын
@Organ Donor and your point is?
Yo
This is not sure she treated the woman 160 like a queen were are getting your info smh
Who is the PT Barnum of today?
@debbiewong6539
Жыл бұрын
A dosh bag
@spencercrawford-dz7rg
9 ай бұрын
Michael Jackson was in some ways before he died think about it.
11:20 were they land whales? How did they jump out if a window
We’ll Barnum was a dosh bag
Is it really all PT’s fault? Let’s be honest this is more a look at society at the time. If people didn’t go and approve of it he wouldn’t have been so successful.
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
Yes
Theyre going to say something randomly racist, huh? I know I shouldn't assume the worst, but its been like every Buzzfeed video since Shane and Ryan left. Seems they were the ONLY ones on the platform who weren't constantly bigoted.... Called it.
@broEye1
4 ай бұрын
I grow seriously tired of the people that declare him a racist. And even more of the people that call him a hypocrite for opposing slavery (yes there are some). After a certain length of time, a person's entire life gets compressed into itself, and people either look solely at the good or solely at the bad. And if the good and bad contradict, it's not because the person grew and changed, regretting past actions and working hard to atone, it's because the person is a hypocrite who publicly opposes something while trying to exploit it for personal gain.
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
@@broEye1read about what he did to Joive Hes
Nice propaganda drop there. Say the lie enough it becomes the truth. 10:16
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
Huh? But. It's true?
St. Thomas, Ontario, CA actually stands for St. Thomas, Ontario, CANADA not California. St. Thomas is a town, Ontario is a province, and Canada is a country. A Google search would have told you that. Despite what Americans apparently believe there are other countries in the world. The video should be corrected.
ST.Thomas Ontario Canada not California thanks.
this is for my friend 😂 sorry
Lol did u just say St Thomas Ontario California?! 😂 wow bud do some research..st Thomas Ontario is in Canada genius haha
Not sure I appreciate the reference that the parties are flipped from today when referring to slavery. I certainly don't believe in slavery and I don't know any republicans who do.
@chrisintorre7652
Жыл бұрын
republicans were left, they're now very right.
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
It's literal fact though
He owned slaves
@morelorel
Жыл бұрын
ye so did most of the rich bastards back then
@jfournerat1274
11 ай бұрын
Yes he did but he apparently showed remorse for enslaving them. However he was still racist.
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
@@jfournerat1274read what he did to Joice Heth. He was NOT good to his slaves.
@jfournerat1274
3 ай бұрын
@@fishcakepro I read it and you were right. He mistreated the people he enslaved. Honestly I am of course not surprised as enslavers notoriously brutally mistreated people who were enslaved by them such as by brutally beating them with whips or separating them from their families which were of course among the horrors of slavery that made it immoral and wrong along with of course those who were enslaved not being free and were also at the complete mercy of those who enslaved them.
@jfournerat1274
3 ай бұрын
@@fishcakepro this also makes me doubt his supposed remorse for what he had done. Maybe he only feigned remorse or repentance in a attempt to improve his reputation among abolitionists and those who opposed slavery. In that case he would be just like all the countless other enslavers as they showed no remorse or regret for enslaving and mistreating countless innocent people and remained unrepentant and racist for the rest of their lives.
🤔
OG clickbaiter
Is the narrator blind?
That was one right-wing dude man.
Everyone calling him a crook like they wouldn’t have spent money on tickets to see the show 😂 Smart business man and absolutely succeeded beyond his own expectations. If it weren’t for PETA groups, everyone (including me) would still be paying to go watch the circus.
@billydaniels1060
Жыл бұрын
Look into what he did with Joice Heth.
@danamontevideo3806
5 ай бұрын
… i wouldn’t
@fishcakepro
3 ай бұрын
Weird to think peta invented empathy towards animals. If you read articles about him, many hated what he was doing
fast af boi
Multiple issues here…. Not the least of which are how the narrator pronounced museum.. or how he summarily said there was a democrat/republican switch in terms of ethics and economy. Both are wrong..
@rinlo1424
Жыл бұрын
Not sure which video you watched, but in *this one* the narrator said, "Remember that the modern notion of Democrats and Republicans was effectively inverted at this time." That is 100% true. Also, you having an issue with the way the narrator pronounces "museum" doesn't mean it's wrong.
Republican and Democrat ideals inverted at the time? What ever helps you sleep at night I guess.
@TheAllAmericanSocialistMTR1000
Жыл бұрын
The Republican Party was incredibly left-wing, the Democratic Party was incredibly right-wing. Today, the Democratic Party is Centre-Right & the Republican Party is far right-wing. Stop crying.
@jesserussell9286
Жыл бұрын
@@TheAllAmericanSocialistMTR1000 ya it's obvious I'm the one upset lol you find a comment that is weeks old and get so in your emotions you feel the need to be rude to me. Center right wouldn't applaud riots or stand against freedom of speech. I honestly hope you have a good day.
Pt Barnum was evil
@Michelle1963
4 ай бұрын
He did a lot for people with physical disformities. They made a comfortable living. They knew what he was doing and they were grateful for it.
Where’s Ryan 😡
Where is shin and Ryan?
Blah blah racist racist , you’ve destroyed any power that word may have had
fell off + watcher better + ratio