I think it would be nearly impossible for a young person today to read the Dark Knight returns while actually realising what the Batman IP was in 1986. Tim Burtons Batman hadn’t even been made yet and the public ‘image’ of Batman was still primarily based around the sixties tv show. You might think it’s weak or dated but it was absolutely ground breaking, not just for the IP but for comics in general. You have to put it in context and realise exactly how much of the Batman you think you know owes to its existence.

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

Why would you think it's dated?

@loxley75

Жыл бұрын

@@MegaSpideyman why are you asking me? It’s the title of the video. I don’t think it’s dated at all but then I read it on release as a teenager so I can’t imagine what someone in their twenties feels reading it now.

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

@@loxley75 Because I'm curious what your reason is.

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

@@loxley75 Ok.

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

Lotus flowers really made a mistake crapping on miller. Anyone read RoboCop Vs terminator? Awesome.

The first time I saw someone make the argument that Gotham would be fixed if Wayne just gave his wealth to charitable causes I was beside myself with confusion. For starters, nobody making this argument ever payed any attention to any batman media, because the entire Wayne family was almost endlessly charitable, certainly not the least of which was Bruce Wayne. The Wayne Foundation must have dozens of different programs for helping less fortunate people, and most of the ones we know of are explicitly at the root of some of his enemies origins. The batman lore is absolutely loaded with examples of charity and burocracy almost creating the issues they're trying to solve, much the way we see them doing in real life.

@loganross1861

Жыл бұрын

I never thought he should give more to charity, but that he could have just openly been anti crime and heavily invested in wrecking criminals and corruption openly. But by being Batman, he can protect anyone he’s close to via anonymity

@Makingnewnamesisdumb

Жыл бұрын

@@loganross1861 he funds the police, the prisons and the reform programs trying to rehabilitate people and stop them from committing crimes in the future. How much more anti-crime could he be?

@snellavision

Жыл бұрын

Wayne Enterprise AKA Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

@FatherAndrew-Scarlet-Priest

Жыл бұрын

I feel like arkham asylum is probably one of gothams biggest issues, the joker and other criminals have escaped so many times, it just shows that the place is clearly unfit for dealing with, let alone containing them.

@mrbigglezworth42

Жыл бұрын

@@snellavision Minus the attempt at feudalism?

What's sad is that even if these stories are a bit far-removed and dated in narrative, they're still light years ahead of anything coming out of Marvel and DC now.

@MrJustonemorevoice

Жыл бұрын

Dated? It's a story about a decadent civilisation that can no longer defend itself from its own nihilistic offspring

@Nukestarmaster

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, that's an astonishingly low bar.

@yandereneko5523

Жыл бұрын

I see you are a Hotline Miami fan

@Cerbyo

Жыл бұрын

I don't know why you are associating dated with bad. Literally nothing to do with eachother. You aren't? Oh...so then ur calling batman with modern weaponry, pronouns, gender identity, racial woke awareness, I'm black I'm descended from adversity and I'm catwoman so I'm literally robinhood now and u have to blow me..... far-removed and dated in narrative...?....ya, my point is exactly. YA I DON"T LIKE MY POINT EITHER

@Nukestarmaster

Жыл бұрын

@@Cerbyo Wut?

"All the people I've murdered, by letting you live" There is just some evil you can't negotiate or reason with. Batman understands that.

Rather than dated I think that The Dark Knight Returns really summed up the era, and was a cinematic experience for the reader! It was no coincidence that the Batman films of Tim Burton came along soon after, because Frank Miller awakened Hollywood to what could be done with the genre.

When I think about it, there probably needs to be more stories about how money doesn't solve all your problems. Considering the fates of people who win the lottery, the problems people have are always below the skin and buried deep in their souls.

I think you missed the core element of Batman's inner conflict in "The Dark Knight Returns." Batman wasn't a thrill seeker when he retired, he was seeking the right way to end his life, only to reconsider at the last moment. Count the number of times he thought, "This would be a _____ death." That was what made the ending two sentences so epic. "This would be a good life. Good enough."

Neil Adams walked so Frank Miller could run. Neil laid the groundwork for a more serious tone in Gotham and the brooding Batman we know today. Robbins and Friedrich had also set up a darker tone to the Batman before O’Neil and Adams took it to the next level.

While I think that superheroes (not just Batman) probably should just kill some villains, they are still vigilantes. They should be a middle ground between being a bloodthirsty mass murderer and saving the Joker again for 100th time.

"She doesn't scream. Brave girl! Brave girl!" I love Miller's The Dark knight returns!

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

I think this is the lotus flowers Matt Walsh,"All anime is satanic," moment. They don't understand it so they call it the fall of western civilization. They need to chat to Nerdrotic and just some guy about comics they know the good from the bad. Lotus flowers are getting like Ben Shapiro when it comes to looking at art through the lens of their ideology. Ben Shapiro thought that the Batman movie was a defund the police movie, his words lol.

@ATJ-sTAt

Жыл бұрын

@@sexycenturion7074 What has that to do with "The Dark Knight Returns"?? Are you preaching? Then I think it is to the wrong choir.

@ATJ-sTAt

Жыл бұрын

@@sexycenturion7074 Btw, is "sexy" your pronoun?

@MicahMicahel

Жыл бұрын

@@sexycenturion7074 yeah> they didn't understand Batman is the right wing anti establishment guy here and superman is the foil being part of the government. They also don't see the satirical edge.

@Sakattack2023

Жыл бұрын

@@MicahMicahel lmfao, I think you nerds fabricate meaning in shit that’s as shallow as a plate of cereal.

Say what you want, the story is legendary.

@warrennicholsony.fernando4513

Жыл бұрын

Right on. Today's are crap.

Agree that Miller's artwork can be ugly but a lot like Jack Kirby, it tells the story with the action better than most of the prettier artists.

The 80's was a game changer in comics, for better or worse.

Frank is a good writer, I see the genius in his writing. That being said, Franky boy hates Richard Grayson. Franky boy hates Clark Kent. What that tells me is Franky hates the ideal of Righteous men. And therefore I haven’t ready anything after he wrote Strikes again.

Heresy!! One of the best Graphic Novels ever.....

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

Matt Walsh: does interesting thought provoking doc on women today. Also Matt Walsh: All Anime is satanic. Lotus Eaters: Does interesting videos on Western civilization. Also Lotus Eaters: Frank Miller sucks. Me: You're tearing me apart Lisa.

@ulaznar

Жыл бұрын

@@sexycenturion7074 Matt Walsh made another video explaining his "opinion" on anime. Also, why are you so mad that they don't like what you like?

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

@@ulaznar what a childish reaction to what I said. There was no anger in my comment I just think they know nothing about comics or pop culture and they have no taste in either. Criticism is not anger grow up will you.

We love Dated stuff in this house.

I think I still have this comic but can remember the story almost verbatim. It stuck with me that much. Batman not only did kill in this comic, he also METHODICALLY cripples the mutant leader limb by limb to break the groups spirit.

@lesliemills3153

Жыл бұрын

Batman didn't kill anyone. The closest he came was when he shot a Mutant (threatening a toddler) in the shoulder with a machine gun from another Mutant.

@christopherp.1391

Жыл бұрын

@@lesliemills3153 I will have you disagree with you on that. He broke the jokers neck. For good measure as he went to escape from the cops arriving he said "goodbye old foe" and spit on the jokers face.

@lesliemills3153

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherp.1391 He broke the Joker's neck, nearly paralyzing him (showing just how Batman was succumbing to his own brutality). The Joker knowingly finished the job because he knew it would frame Batman. Recall his quote: "No one will know you didn't have the nerve!"

@christopherp.1391

Жыл бұрын

@@lesliemills3153 I stand corrected I forgot that part. Also now recall how the jokers laughter kept ringing in batman's head. Thanks for the reminder.

@MasalaMan

Жыл бұрын

"You don't seem to get it, son, this isn't a mud hole, it's an operating table...and I'm the surgeon."

British people not understanding the American mind and spirit within this story does not surprise me.

@Ciderpunk-jj5es

Жыл бұрын

Brits did some pretty good American comics.

@gaven5479

Жыл бұрын

These guys understand America extremely well. If anyone doesn't it's Frank Miller. He took the character whose slogan is "truth, justice and the American way" and made him an unquestioning lackey of the federal government. That's the polar opposite of America's founding ideals and these guys are right to condemn Frank's ignorance

@Dimes607

Жыл бұрын

@@gaven5479 I listened to what they said. They really don't

@gaven5479

Жыл бұрын

@@Dimes607 What have they gotten wrong?

@loxley75

Жыл бұрын

Rubbish, I bought this book as a teen when it came out here in the UK and it was absolutely huge over here. They are just young and have no contextual understanding of geek culture.

Getting his back broken *wouldn't* break Batman, but *failure to protect others would.*

I remember the lightning imagery with Batman from the Animated Series, which I grew up watching. Back when Warner Bros. had managed to crack the code to a cinematic comic universe with their cartoon shows decades before Marvel had even considered doing the same thing. Ah, memories.

@tinman1843

Жыл бұрын

Batman the Animated Series was & is awesome!!! I rewatched it over the covid lockdowns.

Good to see that you guys are back

@sloppynumber12

Жыл бұрын

Was almost worried

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

@@sloppynumber12 Only almost?

He kills in one universe, and doesn't in another I suppose. Very early Batman was a killer.

@kpaulblume47

Жыл бұрын

Bob Kane's Batman killed in his very first appearance.

It isn't that Batman doesn't want to kill, it's that people misinterpret him as being able to kill. The ideal that he is supposed to represent is that there is a line. It's what separates him from involuntary murderers. The Batman movies (save the 1960s one) are not good representations of what Batman should be.

@The_mechanick

Жыл бұрын

Also, it isn't Batman's place to kill the villains. If anything it's the governments. If you want to see these irredeemable killers put down it should be done via death penalty as it is the government's duty to enact punishment on those who break its laws.

Batman doesn’t really kill in this. Or rather it’s more up for interpretation, some think Batman hallucinates after killing the joker, although I take the more literal interpretation where he snaps the jokers neck but is unable to go all the way, with joker taunting him because even now, he still can’t bring himself to kill. He uses a gun in his hand once to save a baby, but does not kill the mutant lady, and still very obviously despises guns

@skyyswaggstudios2934

Жыл бұрын

Also this story is not canon, it’s explicitly an elseworlds story

Not gonna lie after the animation came out it replaced me reading it again. It's very well done and nearly keeps every aspect of the comic but the voice work is top notch. Better than almost any other DC product since then

@RossMitchellsProfile

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I watched the films first then went to watch the comics, literally couldn't get through it due to how closely the movie follows the comic, felt like looking through storyboards made during production of the film.

@DeltaAssaultGaming

Жыл бұрын

It’s a very poor, low budget, botched adaptation of Frank Miller's 80s masterpiece. Out of the voice cast, the only ones I think they got right are Michael Emerson as the Joker and Ariel Winter as Carrie Kelly. Those two really nailed it. Peter Weller's voice is so flat and smooth and monotone that he just sounds like... well, like a robot. He doesn't sound like an old Batman, who I figure would be more rumble-y and coarse. Gordon's voice actor was also a wrong choice, because I felt he sounded like someone's elderly grandmother. It was oddly high pitched and feminine. Just didn't sound right. Right from the get-go, I could tell that the production was off. The opening scene of Bruce racing the Neumann 500 looked like it was out of a damn video game. The CGI race cars just looked so cheap and primitive and awful, it was insane. You could tell that they just did not have a budget to pull it off. Came out looking horrible. Again, like I said before, Peter Weller's Batman voice just doesn't sound good at all. It's even and flat and you don't get much emotion out of it. Old Batman shouldn't sound like RoboCop. There's odd stylistic choices that just don't jibe with what I know of the story. For example, in this adaptation, Martha Wayne looks like a blonde bimbo trophy wife for some reason? That made no sense to me and just felt distracting. It was certainly not that way in the Miller comic. You get lots of scenes that are directly lifted from the comic, but they're delivered shoddily and lose so much of the impact that they had in the comic. For example, the weatherman delivers the line "Like the wrath of God, about to hit Gotham..." in a disengaged, casual tone. There's nothing real or revealing behind that delivery. On the other hand, in the actual comic panel, the weatherman utters the line "Like the wrath of God it's headed for Gotham..." with this solemn worried expression on his face, as if he can feel the very thunder in the angry night announcing his presence. Indelible moments and lines from the graphic novel are inexplicably toned down and lose their original intensity. When Batman goes after the robbers after their car crashes into the construction site, he turns to the cops and loudly declares "THESE MEN ARE MINE!" in a big booming voice. In the comic, at least. In the animated movie, Peter Weller states "These men are mine" in a flat and almost bored delivery. It just loses all of its punch and power. Disappointing. When Batman and Two Face crash through the side of the skyscraper, there's a wonderful shot in the comic of lightning lighting up the darkness of the room. Yet in the film, this is completely removed and we're left with regular dark lighting. Just one more example of how shoddy and low budget this project was. The ending of the whole scene was also changed. In the original, Batman embraces Harvey in an emotional moment. In the movie, this is changed into Batman just standing there awkwardly. There's no reason for it and it hurts the resolution of the scene. I don't like it. The scene where Batman glides down onto the television studio and has to take on Yindel and the GCPD is a great example of how they completely botched the execution and created something ridiculous and stupid instead. In the comic, Batman glides down and immediately takes cover behind a wall and throws out his smoke pellets, completely obscuring the entire rooftop in a haze and enabling him to move out and take out the police through concealment. In the animated movie, this doesn't happen and he just runs around in full view of the police riflemen, casually knocking them out one by one while they all have clear shots and lots of time to shoot him dead, but somehow don't. It's completely unbelievable and loses all sense of reality. Instead of marveling at Batman's ingenuity and tactics, we're just astounded by the GCPD's stormtrooper-esque marksmanship skills. It's a laughingstock of a scene and completely took me out of the movie. And of course, who can forget that one moment in the hall of mirrors, when Batman saves the little boy from the Joker and then grimly admonishes him "Watch your language, son." Such a good moment! But alas, it's completely dropped from the movie.

The animated version is pretty good

The fatter line weight tends to be more interesting to look at, but it also tends to be crutch to hide a weaker drawing. Like what's pointed out here in the video, if you want to see what an artist is really capable of in terms of understructure and silhouette value, give them a smaller range of line or medium to work with. All of their strengths and bad habits will shine through. And digital anything is usually a purely production approach to "fix" turnaround time to complete something, rather than being another medium. And, again, also tends to be a massive crutch. If you want to see who an artist really is, take a look at their sketchbook or throwaway scraps where it's harder to hide behind filters, custom brushes or tracing over photos.

18 year old fan here, I can appreciate your take on the comics, but I still think the dark knight returns was groundbreaking for the time, and absolutely hold those comics close to my heart

To think the mutants in the comics are similar to the youth of London riding around on mopeds.

Batman is actually insane, can we agree that far?

14:56 this is even in the universally beloved DCAU. In Batman Beyond, Bruce never kills or encourages killing… but he’s a lot less forgiving and doesn’t do a whole lot to save criminals anymore, either. He’s way more jaded and seems less disturbed by criminals succumbing to some ironic (and twisted) comeuppance; in earlier episodes of B:TAS he had a lot of humor and heart. Batman Beyond and Justice League made him a lot colder, particularly Batman Beyond

@petermj1098

Жыл бұрын

Frank Millers Batman didn’t kill as well. He was brutal but he didn’t kill.

The Mutants gang's motivation reminds me of Stavrogin from Dostoevsky's novel 'The Demons'. I haven't read it myself, but have listened to reviews of it, and Stavrogin fits a similar mold of 'he's so jaded/bored/despairing that nothing makes him feel alive except when he causes pain'; and that is because Stavrogin himself believes that there is nothing worth striving for.

This might be the geekiest segment I've ever seen from Lotus Eaters, and I love it 🤣🤗

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

Don't know any geek that would crap on frank miller's dark knight returns. I know only ignorant idiots who would do such a thing. It's like saying your a movie fan and you dislike back to the future or alien. You know classics but hey it's a current theme that the right today can't do art but they can meme lol. When I say left I don't mean leftists who can't do art or meme.

I remember a quote from Batman that he said that Superman is basically a God and if he wanted to he could fly above us all and destroy the whole world but fortunately that never seems to occur to him. If Superman used half his brain and decided to go after Batman he wouldn't have to get near him and then he would just kill him out right

@MicahMicahel

Жыл бұрын

But superman likes Batman. He's conflicted too. He became part of the government in this story... but he likes and is secretly on Bruce's side partly.

@slashbash1347

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I remember once comic where Batman went against a brainwashed Superman, he acknowledged that if Superman wanted to, he could just squished him into the pavement, and it's only Superman's innate goodness that prevented that from happening.

@Gokiza

Жыл бұрын

Anyone written like an idiot will behave like an idiot. Thank to Miller, the brain dead Govt stooge moron boy-scout version of Supes is now the easy go to whenever a Batman story needs a jolt

Most people don't understand Superman or Batman.

Please do more of these comic breakdown/essays! So satisfying

@sexycenturion7074

Жыл бұрын

Not really they know nothing about comics and crap over the classics. They'll probably take a dump on Alan Moore's Watchmen next. Why don't they read modern DC and Marvel which is God awful.

The irony is that the beat downs batman gives would kill most of the thugs.. from physical trama. He isn't using stun grenades, tasers and stun batons... he's breaking bones, causing internal injuries, etc

Great to see you back

INFANTINO. There was a guy named Carmine Infantino who was an artist at both DC and Marvel and wrote an autobiography illustrated with his work. I read it briefly at my local library. On one page he said it was hard to write a Superman story because Superman has nearly the powers of God. He asked, how do you write a plot for someone who could rip up the sun if he wanted to?

One thing I like about this series is Bruce Wayne actually training the gang members to be proper vigilantes after faking his death and blowing up Wayne Manor. I might be a design of the animated movies.

Welcome back lads Roadhouse

Idk, I saw the animated movie and thought it was great. Yeah I can see the argument but eve to this date is really decent and good in regards in what makes batman, batman, and tbh, is much better than a lot of stuff in the last 10 years or more

that looks like a great comic.

*“The readers conscience died with the deceased writers”* - *“You're beginning to get the idea, Warner Bros/Disney. We could have changed the world…now…look at us…DC/Marvel superheroes become a political liability…and…you…you're a joke”*

Disagree on "Batman's always killed", especially since the major examples are this Elseworld's comic and Batman '89 which are less than accurate interpretations of the character. While it's true his character started out killing without remorse and only softened up due to the comics code shenanigans, his maturation as a actual character in the Bronze Age developed the no-kill code less out of honor but more out of self-restraint. He recognized that he was straddling the line of sanity and could very well become the kind of monsters that he puts away, so he drew the line at killing in fear that he'd lose all sense of morality if he crossed it. Also for God's sake stop jerking off Snyder, his version of the fight was far more contrived. Even if Miller misinterpreted Superman, he provided adequate setup for *this* version of Superman and *this* version of Batman to fight, unlike Snyder's contrived way of forcing his two action figures to smash against each other.

@SoundEngraver

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for bringing up the No-Kill rule. This is integral to Batman's character.

@_XR40_

Жыл бұрын

"...While it's true his character started out killing without remorse..." - Okay, so how do you "...Disagree on "Batman's always killed"..."?

@ShakerSilver

Жыл бұрын

​@@_XR40_ Because it's a low resolution statement that doesn't acknowledge that he's become a different character between the decades. Additionally most of his modern characterization is rooted in his Bronze and even Silver Age stories rather than the Golden Age where he did the most killing.

Thank you! The Dark Knight Returns might have been influential back in 1986, but it no longer holds very well. Too many people replicate this miniseries's ideas over and over, especially the Batman/Superman battle. Plus, no one gives a damm on either Dennis O'Neil and Neil Adams, the men who (also Julius Schwartz) saved Batman from campiness. Miller didn't bring many new things to Batman, except just his Bukowskian hatred for everybody, using Batman as his microphone to tell us all how morally superior he is to the others.

Nail on the head here. I never cared to look into any of Alex Ross’ politics. However his artwork is truly gifted.

To date, the best final encounter between Batman and the Joker around the time of Batman's retirement is in 'Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker' in the flashback sequence. Having to cover up that his ward committed murder (even if he killed a particularly dangerous criminal who found out Batman's secret identity as well as that of his friends and family) is reason enough for the little Bat-Family to become estranged. It has the best rendition of Joker voiced by Mark Hammill in it, at that, so none of the others has much ground to compete (save for the 'Batman: Arkham City' game). The Dark Knight Returns is a good starting point to build upon but as is the case with most pioneering works, there are many missteps made by the pioneers on unfamiliar ground.

There's a saying that those glass and metal skyscrapers were meant to be brought down.

It’s a great story - great movie - the art was … not the selling point

I feel like animated version of Dark knight returns is better than the comic.

This was great :) I like the usual programming though this was a nice break from clown world.

Great book, love this Batman

I will never understand the hatred that writers of that era had for Reagan and Thatcher. Ronald Reagan was a top tier President and Margaret Thatcher was a top tier PM.

10:07 EGADS, Boys....Frank Miller's BEST work is the mini series he did called RONIN. And you NEED to check it out.

I don’t dislike TDKR but I don’t like the overall impact it had on his character, Frank Millers contribution to Daredevil was far greater in story and lasting impact to Matt Murdoch’s character.

I mean… yes. It is. But also… it’s fucking old. You all have rightly pointed out that it’s ridiculous for Twitter Twats to judge the morality and themes of IP’s and influential figures from the past via todays lens. It’s dated. So is The Exorcist, but for decades people kept parroting that it’s “The Scariest Movie of All Time!” Dark Knight Returns doesn’t stand up to the best of current year storytelling and… well current day art is pretty shit from the big two, but the point remains. Maybe Frank Miller didn’t make a perfect story, (and Christ are the follow ups horrible) but he did make something new and unique which recent, arguably better, tales like Old Man Logan trace their genealogy back to.

I'd rather read infinitely than any of today's comics which are trash. Manga and independent comics are the only books worth reading today.

3:20 A B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State building in '45. It's already been a precedented fear before 2001.

Yes, it's a bit dated, but you have to realize the comic book industry at the time. It was fading. Starting to die. Them The Dark Knight Returns happened. Darker, grittier. It jump started comic books. I was a teen when this came out. The art was different, but good. The story, unlike anything in comic books before. Basically, amazing. I have always liked Batman and Superman, World's Finest. Yes, this showed Superman as a big Boy Scout and why he became a big Boy Scout. Superman evolved over time, similar to Batman. At the end, Superman hearing, then smirking, made for a good ending. Got the sequel, it was a let down. Not what I thought would have happened, but it was my story to read, not tell.

I've read it. It's really good, but it's not as perfect as people claim. It's also rather asinine for a lot of the run.

Eh I still think it's brilliant literature

It's not about the villains, but it is a shame from a character that is always defined by his enemies.

Even as a Batman fan when I read DKR when I was younger, I noticed the art gradually getting worse. It’s almost as if Miller lost interest. I like some of his panel compositions and that iconic lighting strike shot image among others. He really did Superman dirty and if he wanted to have them fight, he could’ve come up with a better reason other than the President patting him on the head to do his dirty work on behalf of the government. All-Star Superman and Kingdom Come are my favorite interpretations of Superman within comics that I’ve read. Hopefully you guys do a video of Kingdom Come cause that story is epic in scale within the DC universe.

14:50 This "thrill seeker" Batman is what gets us to ABAR, and you know what? I'm the Goddamn Batman! I know people hate that series, but I love it. It's my favorite depiction of Batman. I'm gonna go eat some rats.

did you just go MIA for a week and now back and not say a word?

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

Yeah! That's the way to do it!

Dated and deconstructed just two year after release by Jim Starlin on Batman The Cult.

Dark Knight Returns is simultaneously iconic and bad at the same time.

Where have you been guys? haven't seen the podcast on yt for days...

Where have you guys been for the last week?

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

They got a strike due to their video on American political ads being insane, for 'violent content'.

Who would win? OPMan, or PlotArmorMan?

Tell me the Left isn't coming after Frank Miller and this wonderful story.....please....

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

Not that I know of, but he was unable to attend a comic convention a year or so back because one of the women there, a writer or artist, kicked up a fuss due to Holy Terror.

Frank Miller rocks... If it wasn't for him then Batman would still be perceived as the Adam West version. I still have the original 4 first edition prints of Dark Knight. Miller brought Batman back to life. He's a great artist and knows how to illustrate and tell a story. Dare Devil, Electra and Wolverine etc are also worth looking at. The guy is a master!

@Gokiza

Жыл бұрын

You totally ignore Neal Adams and Dennis O’Neil who curated a serious Gotham years before Miller. Their work inspired his.

The animated movies with Peter Weller are the best on screen Batman.

I still love this comic though.

I disagree on a few points. TDKR was Miller's take on the 80's political scene and an attempt to get past the aburd campiness of the 60's and 70's iterations of Batman

This makes me want to see an analysis in this style of the old Boba Fett comic, "Death, Lies, and Treachery". I bet they'd have a lot to say about the art style there.

I thought the YT thumbnail was Darkman for a second.

Batman holds other heroes to standards that he will break!

I remember Benjamin wondering why Bruce Wayne doesn't give a few billions of his dollars to the Gotham Police.

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

Benjamin?

@lordmida

Жыл бұрын

@@MegaSpideyman Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad.

@Alex_Fahey

Жыл бұрын

because it's as corrupt as the rest of Gotham. He would be funding the crime as much as the cure. It is the same reason the Wayne family's endless charity never fixes the problems of Gotham.

Frank Miller is a cranky old troll. But DKR is a classic. Even this crooked lefty could not deform the Batman any farther. He still comes off cool.

Lmfao no it's not. More relevant than ever

@MutantsInDisguise

10 ай бұрын

Relevant to a hateful baby.

Felt the same way when I read it.

History: HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON, OLD MAN?? Socialism: I love the young people.

Yeah, because forty year old comics never seem dated.

Still my favorite batman comic. I didn’t say best as for me that is probably year one.

As someone who hasn't read a lot of comics or this one but likes a lot of the expanded batman media is this a disection of the character?

@jaspermcminnis5538

Жыл бұрын

DC has a multiverse where characters have different versions of themselves. Occasionally, they meet their other selves. He's another version. But I'm not a DC guy. So I can't tell how much of it is a dissection of the character, other than it's darker.

@loxley75

Жыл бұрын

No it isn’t really. It’s satire for a start and takes place in an alternative timeline where Batman retires after Jason Todd was ‘killed’. It was one of the first ‘what if’ comics that we take for granted these days. ‘What if’ superman really was just a Government lackey, Batman was just a crazy old man determined to go out in a blaze of glory, Green arrow was just some crazy old hippy. Batman, Superman and all the rest didn’t really have much character at all before this time, they were two dimensional funnies, it was one of the first comics ( coming out months before watchman) that bothered even thinking what if superheroes actually acted like real people and had personalities.

Which one got you boys suspended last week?

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

It was the video on American political ads being insane and they got a strike for 'violent content', even though there doesn't seem to be anything there and if there was, why punish them now?

its not dated. its a great superhero story with fabulous art.

If the lads could see the exact timestamp that anyone closes this vid, I imagine it'll mostly be around 5:20

Was revisiting Dark Knight Returns recently. I also found the unfinished look of much of the art to be pretty annoying.

@markmitchell590

Жыл бұрын

It's influenced by Japanese brushwork

The artwork used for Frank Miller's work has always been a bit weird to me. Its unique and all, but it doesn't really work for with some properties. With Batman, it makes him look a bit out of proportion in some places, such as the hands. Looking at superman in the Dark Knight returns, he is drawn like a bit of a caricature, with biceps the size of Bournemouth. With a property such as the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen it's okay, considering that one of the characters is basically a hulked-out Mr Hyde with a build similar to a jacked gorilla, so you would expect him to be a bit out of proportion.

It's "Rides Again!"

There is no as depressing as monotony.

Respectfully disagree. This is a great graphic novel. The story of an over-the-hill hero, coming out of retirement... leading to an amazing David-v-Goliath. (chef's kiss). It is head and shoulders above the more recent movie.

Agreed. I saw Long Halloween and rewatched Dark Knight Returns back to back. Long Halloween set the story up, introduced the majority of characters, established the stakes, and provided motives within 6 minutes of the start. Dark Knight Returns took nearly 40 minutes to do the same.

15:29 While I generally agree, I think Batman’s distrust of both the government and the JLA (other superheroes), and he’s various contingency plans for basically everyone, including himself, show why he would have a rule about killing, even if he doesn’t always fallow it.

13:55 who does batman kill in the dark knight returns? It is literally the main reason why the cops don't come after him, that he doesn't kill anyone and they can't label him as a mass murderer. Even in the end batman can't bring himself to kill the joker, he only paralyzes him and the joker mocks batman for not having the guts to kill him. So, what character does batman kill in the comic?

It's a masterpiece

Can you cover batman RIP next?

@MegaSpideyman

Жыл бұрын

Why that one?

@GODCONVOYPRIME

Жыл бұрын

Batman: Retarded Idiot Porn?