Did you know about 'effective altruism'? Are you concerned about the way it's administered? Or is this a net positive? Hit like, share with friends, and let me know below!

@GreatGreebo

Ай бұрын

This was an enlightening and thought provoking conversation. I’m definitely looking into reading her book. Thank you for uploading this interview.

@LordBlk

Ай бұрын

On the theme of elitist ideologies, you should look up and interview @iamlisalogan. The theosophy groups of some very large global institutions

@LordBlk

Ай бұрын

Damn my reply disappeared....you should look up Lisa logan's work about certain ideologies

@user-zo1uj2lo8k

Ай бұрын

What if affective altruism is effective at saving lives and in doing so create a compounding effect of lives that need saving. At what point would they say these problem are so inflated it’s not worth the investment?

@SunRabbit

Ай бұрын

Never heard of EA until this podcast, however, I had coined the term "Scientific Morality" about 3 years ago wherein I postulated that objective morality MUST obey the same rules as physics.

If you're a true altruist, nobody knows that you are one. A true altruist expects NOTHING in return except the pleasure of having been generous and helpful.

@mihaelacomanescu

Ай бұрын

True altruism is modest and discreet too. No advertising, no tam-tams, no bragging, no receipts for tax exemption purposes.

I worked with the homeless for 20+ years and the majority of my clients were addicts and/or had some sort of mental illness. Many of them also had low IQ’s; poor coping skills; and grew up in abusive/neglectful homes. The success rate of programs designed to help these individuals is extremely low and most will return to the life they know as their “normal” as soon as you release them back into society. That doesn’t mean they do not deserve help, but I can understand why someone with a lot of money to give would see this as a poor investment. What I would say to those individuals is to focus on creating programs for children that give them healthy coping skills and teach them how to overcome the various challenges they face and make a better life for themselves.

@Bakeroo

14 күн бұрын

Agree witb you 100%. Prevention is better than the cure. I worked for a housing association that would give people a property whilst Shelter would provide the practical and emotional support. I didnt see it working. A man sleeping under a bridge didn't show up twice to view a flat in a really nice area. Old habits die hard. Like you I don't think things are impossible but money might be better spent preventing someone getting to that difficult stage where perhaps society and services have let them down.

@goodgrief888

8 күн бұрын

@@BakerooI have lived in San Francisco for 3 decades now, and I used to repeat the whole “one paycheck away” and “there but by the grace of G0d go I.” But after moving downtown in 2020 and seeing very upclose every single day right in front of me the reality of the situation, i got to see what those people in tent encampments were doing as they lay on the sidewalk under my front window. I no longer believe that your average person is on the verge of dragging a tent down to a freeway underpass. If you can’t find gainful employment or an affordable apartment, the best course of action for a rational person is to leave the extremely expensive city and go somewhere with less competition for jobs and cheaper rent. These places still exist (although there’s an argument to be made that the wealth divide is widening everywhere.) It’s a complete grift that these non profits and developers who are benefiting from a large homeless population have convinced us all that the people sticking needles in their feet are all just regular people who suddenly lost their jobs at Apple and Twitter. There’s a large population of people who come to San Francisco just to live their tent encampment lifestyle. I used to think this was a MAGA talking point, but I have seen and experienced firsthand that it is not. The majority of the folks bent over aren’t just nice normal people who lost their job. They never had a job.

My fear is we are creating an online generation who don’t experience that pang! Our society seems to be failing to develop empathy and morality

I am going to stand up a bit for the good side of humanity. I have early onset Parkinsons which has begun to affect me more and more when I commute into London for work. I sometimes freeze and are unable to move, or my legs start to give way and I start to fall. What has really shocked and surprised me is just how many people, in London of all places!, have stopped, taken time out of their own journeys to ask me if I an ok and to offer assistance to me. i have been helped to seats, had people physically help me stand, run off to get help from London Underground staff, offer to stay with me until I feel better and immediately leap up from their seats on the tube and offer it to me. It's easy to be cynical about humanity but actually I have seen the very best of it in a way I never expected.

@user-hq2js9tw2e

Ай бұрын

No-one wants to not help, the life-work machine makes us feel we can never stop in case we are late for whatever it is we are rushing off to. Sad but I'm so glad you've found some angels out there xxx

@Bexks

Ай бұрын

I love 💕 this!! Wishing you the best from, Hampshire 🇬🇧

@FocusedFighter777

28 күн бұрын

Go full carnivore. Look out for all the comments of carnivores who got their life backs. Do it.

@josmith9662

22 күн бұрын

30 years ago there was occasionally a sikh gent outside a shop who asked me for a shove..... i shoved amd we were both on our way in no time

Nothing better than somebody Westminster/Cambridge educated who works for the BBC warning me about the 'elites'.

@Ifailedeverything

Ай бұрын

I respect her for showing up and having the conversation.

@banangnang

Ай бұрын

Judging her on her socio-economic class instead of the substance of her message is just more identity politics. Sad!

@bwhitleyjr

Ай бұрын

Might need someone close enough to the dark / evil elites to expose them and their evil altruism

@liberality

Ай бұрын

​@@banangnang Social class isn't just an identity, it's a material reality. Rich people really do have more money.

@StillAliveAndKicking_

Ай бұрын

@@banangnangTrue. But it’s a shame that the British elites are dominated by a narrow group i.e. wealthy privately educated people, and the media are dominated by those who tend to follow a liberal agenda and push identity politics. There is a lack of diversity and equity. Ironic that.

Its like the old advert "give a man a fish, he can eat for one night. Teach him how to fish and he'll be fed for his lifetime. " Thats how it should be, effective ways to get people out of poverty by giving them the right tools and not just throwing money down into a bottomless pit, like so many charities (which seem to make a business from our guilt and don't actually make real changes)

@kristinsimondson

8 күн бұрын

How does one spend a day effectively learning how to fish if they are starving?

It goes against natural human instinct to save a material possession over a child.

@SkepticalTeacher

Ай бұрын

Ah, but our reptile overlords are not human...! 😂😂😂

@ph8077

Ай бұрын

Unless it's a gold Rolex

@jwsuicides8095

Ай бұрын

@@SkepticalTeacher My parents would have if no one was watching...

@debralittle1341

Ай бұрын

Then maybe people who think like this don't have a soul and if they do, they sold it to the devil.

@ginaweith9475

Ай бұрын

Does it though? Look at the atrocities throughout human history. Look at companies that poisoned water and killed people. There are different human instincts. Some people only focus on the bottom line or some equation of logic and believe that is their human instinct. Others believe humanity exists to create and invent. Some are instinctively humanitarian and others prefer structure and order as their ‘instinct or approach to people and things. The trick is to leverage each others instinctive strengths to create solutions that are multi-dimensional or multi-modal. There is no perfect answer and we will never all agree. The best we can hope for is to mitigate the downsides of any solution or approach. We are basically the longest running Star Trek episode, compassion vs. logic, innovation and creative solutioning vs. sticking with what we know is reliable but maybe won’t be as effective. How do we get out of our own ways?

I liked this interview a lot. Not so sure about jenny's willingness to accept men into female spaces. I am a man who has been SA'd, and Jenny clearly has not. Good for her, but consent does not transfer, and it shouldn't. She has not thought this through, IMO.

@riiidiculoso8697

Ай бұрын

I agree completely; in fact, I would not express it as diplomatically as you have. She has definitely not thought it through, but worse, believes that she has. She has formed a conclusion, based on a fundamentally flawed cost/benefit analysis, that the most ‘effective emotional altruism’ is to extend ‘kindness’ and sympathy to a vocal faction of men’s rights activists. She has completely omitted the wide-ranging and enormous costs exacted upon everyone else in society, when policy is driven by emotions rather than truth.

@kelleygreengrass

Ай бұрын

Thanks for saving me from watching the interview. Dislike for giving this putrid woman a platform.

@jellybean6582

Ай бұрын

I found a lot of what she said "not thought through" For example she would stay home again in a lockdown because she'd feel guilty about possibly harming someone, not too bothered about those of us who worked right through it and are now paying through taxes for those who sat at home being paid

@blythemajors9193

Ай бұрын

@@riiidiculoso8697couldn’t have said it better. Spot on.

@juneelle370

Ай бұрын

I agree~ before the trans ideology as it is today was introduced, I was taught traditional gender in psych class and even then I was astonished because it was just the same sexist stereotype boxes I was taught in religion! Gender & transgender ideology goes far beyond our respective biological strengths and vulnerabilities and is so limiting and divisive for all humanity! I read a study showing that the more a woman has of so called feminine traits, the more anxious and depressed she is because of lack of agency! And another study that showed almost everyone has both “masculine” and “feminine” traits-so we are ALL “non-binary”. Gender simply is repackaged sexist stereotypes! Humanity is a Venn Diagram of traits-ability and personality! Once (before I knew about transgender ideology) I was leading a women’s group and a man showed up wanting to join in. I explained it was a woman’s only group but he wouldn’t accept that and (I now realize) my empathy was weaponized and I caved and let him join because he was guilting me. After he left, I HEARD IT from nearly all the other women and I rightly apologized! Women DO have a right to their own spaces because many women don’t feel safe even expressing themselves in front of men, let alone what’s going on now with bathrooms and sports where there is a REAL biological vulnerability to safety (because with all biological men we just don’t know WHO is a threat and who isn’t because we don’t KNOW them!) I wish more and more people with sex dysmorphia would see that we want all people to be safe and to have their spaces and that includes women and girls!

The child you didn’t save could’ve been a future Picasso, you’ll never know

@NotLikeLee

Ай бұрын

Or junkie that beats his partner

@DrGreenGiant

Ай бұрын

Could've been the next Jack the Ripper, too

@Sairfecht

Ай бұрын

@@DrGreenGiant Maybe a Jack the Ripper who paints like Picasso…

@NotLikeLee

Ай бұрын

Not if they are dead. Picasso was alive after eight like a dinner mint.

Given that mandated lockdown cost 6x more than the NHS would spend on a treatment, that cost-benefit assessment is a no-brainer!! Mandatory lockdown IS NOT WORTH THE COST

Bill gates is awful. Seriously.

@harrying882

Ай бұрын

Even the wife left him, he looks awfully, basically he’s, a dirty auld man.

@primordialpouch565

Ай бұрын

Unsubscribed over that, how ill informed and dismissive the presenter was about something he's clearly never loooked into, even if you don't accept all the awful stuff back to the 80's Gates has done, you still can't deny he befriended a child abuser AFTER he was convicted, any person who willingly set foot on a plane of that name clearly hasn't a shred a decency, and what kind of 'business' was he conducting with said Child abuser....

@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559

Ай бұрын

But so is Jenny, for seeing no problem with surrogacy or men invading women's spaces.

@simanothername3035

15 күн бұрын

Epstein's best mate is not a philanthropist. He uses his charitable donations to create market conditions he desires.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with effective altruism. The whole idea is maximising the best outcomes. I don't think shutting your eyes to emotional appeal is necessarily a bad thing either. The problem with saving the homeless on the streets of sanfran is that the money goes towards keeping them on the streets in drugs because of local policies. I wouldn't give my money to that

The Bill Gates comment seems odd because I thought you were a journalist. There is a lot of articles/Videos covering his early life/work / investments and so called philanthropy. Ask James Corbett, Whitney Webb and Vandana Shiva about Bill Gates.

@thereselarfield7177

Ай бұрын

That philosopher has a god complex… he is a psychopath!!!

@tommymarco

Ай бұрын

yeah, that was weird. thought less of him the way he approached it, should of have a balanced approach as the information is definitely out there

@jamie_gray

Ай бұрын

An academic analysis - Linsey McGoey, 'No Such Thing as a Free Gift'

@Time-to-rise-13

Ай бұрын

Billy G is a philanthropath!!! Great comment.

@redpilledpict2747

Ай бұрын

Bill Gates learned from The Rockefeller Foundation who used to do a lot of dark stuff on behalf of the CIA.

There's a lot of nonesense in this interview.

@krisvq

26 күн бұрын

Substantiate and elaborate please...

@mirianakovachevic748

10 күн бұрын

Agree

How does saving a Picasso save more children than saving a child? I feel like I’m missing something.

@AdviserMoppet

Ай бұрын

Sell the Picasso and use the money to save more children. That would be my answer.

@NotLikeLee

Ай бұрын

Picassos are sexy af and the owners of Picassos don’t use contraceptives.

@liberality

Ай бұрын

@@AdviserMoppet The Picasso should be insured, and the loss of one work makes the remaining works more valuable. Only a psychopath would save the painting. This question reminds me of the tests they used in Blade Runner to figure out who the Replicants were. Human life has intrinsic value that can't be balanced on a spreadsheet.

@hermann5347

Ай бұрын

@@liberality But actually it can. Humans require ressources to live and ressources are limited. We just forget that because we are all so incredibly rich. Depending on where you live, your life may be worth only a few hundred bucks. I agree with saving the child here, because the painting has no intrinsic value. It just represents a large amount of ressources. Let me rephrase the question: You are living in a poverty stricken land, where people are starving every week. You have on the one side a big storage house with several millions worth of food, on the other hand the child. You can either see the storage unit burn or the child drowning. What do you do?

@liberality

Ай бұрын

@@hermann5347 I would save the child, because the food can be replaced. Each human is unique. In reality, the reason why children die and starve for no good reason has to do with the people who start wars, not abstract ethical puzzles. The 'effective' part of effective altruism just means dehumanisation and neo-colonial practices. Seems to me that many of these tech bros forgot that who gets to live isn't actually their decision to make.

This is definitely giving me "The Constant Gardener" vibes 😢 It's about drug companies doing dodgy things in developing countries 😮

Thank you again for doing these interviews on heavy subjects. They always open my mind to different perspectives.

The uphill gardener 😂

It's shortsighted to save the Picasso, the kid you'd hypothetically abandoned might have turned out to be the Picasso of his own time, creating many works that would be revered in 100 years... In my opinion if you make that choice you don't understand the value or potential of human life.

@alexcrawford1387

Ай бұрын

I like this take would have had this so called philanthropist boggled 🤣

@violetvixxxprovixen6682

Ай бұрын

But he most likely is not.

@DrGreenGiant

Ай бұрын

"Might" I think is the key word there. The point of the hypothetical scenario is that you could forego one life in order to save many more. It's similar to the; "give a man a fish vs. giving him a fishing rod," concept.

@prunt23

26 күн бұрын

Worse than that, if you save the Picasso and not them they might survive then later come for revenge.

I could never lose my leg for any reason.

People are giving away literally billions of dollars THEY DON’T HAVE TO to help people they don’t even know and still someone can be found criticizing the way they do it. What a world…

@doetodeer

Ай бұрын

Right? Like I get the outrage or whatever but if you're billionaire and people decide to start criticising your altruism, then the risk is you just stop being altruistic and nobody gets anything.

@a_sher1775

Ай бұрын

Oh dear god you missed the point entirely. If you don’t invest in your home your home falls apart right? Plus how are you going to overlook something happening a continent away, with different laws, different ways of governing and challenges you will not foresee. Machiavellian, yes, but also more effective.

@jimmyblanka6025

Ай бұрын

I think there is also no vicarious kick back from this type of 'altruism' - because there is no emotional investment or appeasement of any 'functional anxiety' to speak of. It's held at an (emotional) arms length. Perhaps the proposition is that these doners have no emotion(s) - no soul - and this is what produces the ick factor for this author!? Clean drinking water is pretty much top of the list for doing good bang for buck-wise. I think opting to invest in this for a motive that seems cold is better than investing money into a donkey sanctuary for the world's working / neglected donkeys but for reasons of 'the heart'. Ps I love donkeys btw.

@jacquiollard8784

Ай бұрын

you know they claim the money back in tax...dont you?

@user-dy4oc6of8g

Ай бұрын

Exactly. They don’t have to give money away.

Really enjoyed this chat, fascinating

Absolutely buying this book. These subjects are new to me. And this looks like a great place to start.

Really love your studio Andrew. Amazing interesting people with expanding perspectives. All 💯👌

I agree with Andrew. To do something like this you have to be a psychopath.

The Constant Gardener is based on a book by John le Carré. An excellent well researched novel.

Interesting topic. Great podcast! 👍

Really enjoyed this one, thank you

Anyone who has been censored online loves Elon Musk.

@BlueberryEnjoyer

Ай бұрын

I got banned from twitter after Elon Musk took over because I said I didn't like cops. Elon Musk just changed who is censored on twitter.

No I don't think I'd buy the book, as a mother her comments about making her daughter wear a mask were really disturbing amongst other comments she made

@alicee2952

21 күн бұрын

Wacky! I was astounded.

There's no contest. A human life is more important than any painting or other work of art. Just as a human life is more important than your pet. Many people have trouble with this moral choice too.

@yvonnelashford2969

Ай бұрын

I have to admit it would depend on which artwork and which human!

@SystemsMedicine

Ай бұрын

Hi Gwen. You seemed to have missed the point… Kleeman poses the scenario in which, if you save the valuable painting, then you could use money obtained selling the painting to save many people. Lots of people are unable to act on ‘delayed utility’, others would prefer to save many lives later. Many charity oriented people will engage in a mix or short term giving and long term projects.

@mardyroux8136

Ай бұрын

@@yvonnelashford2969 Indeed. If the person was Joe Biden or Rishi Sunak, and if the painting was a fingerpainting made by one of my grandchildren at kindy, I'd definitely save the painting.

@DrGreenGiant

Ай бұрын

whooooosh

@yvonnelashford2969

Ай бұрын

@@mardyroux8136 I was thinking more along the lines of the statue of David vs a murderous terrorist - but fair enough!

plenty to think about, as always. thanks.

Odd that Jenny Kleeman’s book is not available state-side? I have ordered it from Blackwell’s and had it shipped halfway across the globe. Cheers, fantastic conversation Mr. Gold.

If you actually believed saving a rare painting is more important than saving a child, you are evil with no humanity.

The experimental medical procedure effects fertility,especially in women… anecdotally I know of a few men that have had some issues as well….

Saying this before I've watched ‐- love the intro.

Great episode

The Uk Government SAYS it doesnt negotiate, but it definitely does. Just not publicly.

@GreenMorningDragonProductions

Ай бұрын

Correct. And the proof is the Good Friday Agreement.

I very rarely say this...,but what a load of arbitrary BS!

What a great insightful interview well done to you both

I really enjoyed that i interview thank you.

OMG Andrew..... I loooove Ralph Fiennes and Constant Gardener & The English Patient !!!!!

@gisellemagraibhaigh8342

Ай бұрын

The Constant Gardener! Never forgot how shockingly beautiful that movie was

I also love The Constant Gardener, Andrew.

Such an interesting way of looking at the world that I never thought about. Great interview. Thanks

Actually, I like that Jenny points out things that we should be aware off, too many of us are ignorant It is the stress she obviously has over these subjects, she cant cope

On the hostage costs... I get Jenny's point about UK/US citizens being the ones to die because our governments won't negotiate BUT, if we did and we paid more than the French or Germans, that would mean the poorest countries citizens died in order to hike the price for the UK/US citizens - someone is still dying in that case. Better to invest your resources in prevention and (if necessary) rescue than simply paying up and encouraging further attempts. Much of this is the old "do you push a man on to the railway tracks to save a family?" People agonise over the action of pushing (murdering) the man and human nature allows us to excuse our inaction and let a family die. Only in hindsight do we feel guilt over inactivity. There is a sound, if unethical, logic to saving a family by murdering one. Of course, a truly selfless person would throw themselves on to the rails to save the family and spare the man. Sociopaths don't experience empathy so it is an easy choice for them. Many (not all) CEOs are sociopaths, its 80hrs a week, absolute dedication to your goal, regardless of cost - family, friends, co-workers, any real connection. Sociopaths do extremely well in that kind of environment, in a way, its a productive use of what could be a dangerous individual.

At 16:47 - sure, male fertility rates have never been so low, but we have always lived in a world where, aside from those who adopt, the biologically fortunate are the only ones who can have children. It's strange that Jenny seems to see this as immoral or unethical, given that it's how nature works. How does she propose this 'natural injustice', as she sees it? Does she support surrogacy for all? If so, there are soooo many ethical problems with that. Commodifying women's bodies and commericialising their reproductive organs is akin to state-endorsed prostitution. It's totally unethical, not just because of the negative effect it has on women, but also because it involves deliberately creating the most intimate of bonds between a woman and the child she is carrying, and then deliberately breaking that bond. It's terribly cruel, and appeals to the kind of people who are too selfish to deserve to be parents. Egg donation is equally unethical, because of the risk it poses to the body of a woman.

There has been a child I know of in Romania with SMA. Romanian insurance does not pay for the drug. A group of people managed through incredible efforts to raise almost all the money but the child won it at the lottery and the money were diverted to another baby with the same condition. This is a story with happy ending. That child is almost 5 or 6 now and doing well. He won the right to live at a lottery. I honestly don't know how companies are allowed to do this.

>are there negative effects of effective altruism >it requires you to have cold hearted attitude to doing good, to shut down your emotions. Hey, you don't have to sell it to me anymore. He asked about negatives! Seriously though, people doing what FEELS good instead of what is actually, objectively good is one of the biggest sicknesses of the society. We need less of it, not more.

11:27 Individual people will not pay "anything" for a drug because they don't have infinite money. Governments are much closer to being able to pay "anything" because they can use money from millions of taxpayers.

I really work hard to engage myself in someway of earning more income. My family are happy once again and can now afford anything for my family even with my Retirement.$67k weekly returns has been life changing, after so much struggles.

@JimmyHernandez-zo8eg

Ай бұрын

Maria Angelina Alexander I really appreciate her efforts and transparency.

@JimmyHernandez-zo8eg

Ай бұрын

I remember giving her my first savings $20000 and she opened a brokerage account for me it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me.

@dewsydaisy

Ай бұрын

I heard a CNBC news host spoke highly big about this name and her strategies, how she has been helpful to many people. Been trying to reach her since.

@marcosvg90

Ай бұрын

YES!!! That's exactly her name (Maria Angelina Alexander) so many people have recommended highly about her and am just starting with her from Brisbane Australia.

@KuramaUchiha-id1ow

Ай бұрын

Most people keep getting scared of taking risk,though I started with as low as $15,000 actually because it was my first time and it was successful, She's a great personality in the state.

This has been my favorite!!!!

'I don't know why Bill Gates is so hated?' Lol

Why is altruism only effective if it saves lives? Why not create a definition of effective altruism which is based on enhancing the lives of people measuring human needs like freedom, choice, safety, control over one’s destiny, friendship etc?

@umwha

Ай бұрын

EA people do understand that there is both the quantity of people helped and the quality which people receive

Her definition of effective altruism is a bit off. The actual thinking is, if you can help more people by making a lot of money, and giving it to those who need, that is more effective than not having a career, and digging wells, etc. to help the poor. As to the child or the masterpiece, that depends upon kinship. I'd save my grandson before any work of art. If it were an unknown child, and a Picasso, I'd still save the child, but if the art were Monet, Matisse or von Gogh, I'd save the art.

@dvanaestcestica1135

Ай бұрын

You got wrong the point of the painting in this context. It's not the matter of liking the art and saving the piece you like for the art's sake, it's saving an artwork, any artwork, that is potentially worth millions when sold, which can then be used for charity purposes and help potentially millions of people. With this reasoning, you revealed that you would actually sacrifice a child's life for a painting you like, but not for a painting you don´t like. Ooops. Not good.

@Bexks

Ай бұрын

@@dvanaestcestica1135👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

@mihaelacomanescu

Ай бұрын

​@@dvanaestcestica1135You got her right: she missed the point but she was sincere at the risk of being politically incorect😂

Yet another great guest I haven't heard of! I have heard of Effective Altruism, and have listened to Will Macaskill on the Sam Harris podcast and even briefly thought about taking the pledge to give 10% of income to effective charities with his Giving What We Can organisation. P.S. I have ordered Jenny's book!

@andrewgoldheretics

Ай бұрын

Aw thank you so much !!

here's the thing though. If you THINK about it - a which takes time and weighing up the options - saving the Picasso would be the right thing for the greater good. BUT in the actual situation - you wont BE thinking it through, or taking the time to weigh things....you would act on instinct and save the child. As is so often the case, the logical answer given time and being removed from the actual premis is often a different answer to being thrust directly into that situation.

@mihaelacomanescu

Ай бұрын

Thorough thinking and so we'll expressed.

@user-fq1oj2tr3v

5 күн бұрын

It isn't the greater good to promote materialism.

In the downtown area where i work so many businesses are just gone. Even the YMCA which surprises me.

You have to laugh. This woman is one of the elites.

@tommymarco

Ай бұрын

now I wanna watch to the end

@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559

Ай бұрын

'Elite' in what sense? She's certainly not a deep thinker.

@curiositycloset2359

Ай бұрын

@@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559 in that she went to Westminster boarding school.

Andrew im only 2 years older than you and i was one of those kids in university back in 2006 smoking weed and discussing altruism... where were you lol you missed out? Interesting you mentioned Immanuel Kant earlier in the episode as well, some names i havent heard in a long time. Brilliant episode as always... absolutely loved it. Jenny is amazing,l and so engaging.

🌴🌴🩵🩵😎 Andrew: Thank you for inviting the BRILLIANT JENNY KLEEMANN🩵😄🩵G-D Bless🌴🌴

Frog pride 😂❤

Is the Picasso a Picasso painting or a person named Picasso? We shouldn't devalue the lives of Picassos just because they share a name with a quirky painter.

Very interesting interview, but the title seems like it was intended for another video and inputted here by mistake...? Is there some timestamp that actually touches on the "woke be kind" theme?

20:40 She is too humble. We were trained not to brag. But when it comes to altruism one has the right to say I'm altruistic without trying to explain things away. She is altruistic, kind, humble, selfless and caring. That is genetic. I'm that way as well. It's wonderful that those people exist in this rough world. You are that way too. The vast majority of humans world wide are not that way.

Governments couldnt risk much of the working population being dead as this would have a long reaching effect on future wealth of a country. Also the health system in my country wasnt coping before covid and certainly wasnt capable of masses infected with covid. Yes prolonged lockdowns were tough and for small businesses and the tourist industry it was devastating . We initially didnt have to wear masks but when it was demonstrated that they did help in crowded areas they were mandated. Because I am over 70 and I already have a chronic autoimmune condition it was really important for me not to contract covid. I am happy to say that so far I have never had covid. Two children I know have become extremely ill after having repeated infections on returning to school. My mother died in a care home shortly after getting infected. Fortunately we were able to be with her before she died but she kept telling me not to visit as she was afraid I would get ill. Certainly my doctor warned me to stay away from medical centres, supermarkets and care homes. I am glad I lived in New Zealand during covid and we are recovering as a country possibly because we didn't lose people from our working population.

This woman is IMPOSSIBLE!!!

The dark depths of longtermism ideology being followed by some very influential billionaires (Elon Musk, Peter Thiel ...) might be a good topic for further discussions.

@andybrice2711

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I think this is where EA disappears up its own arse a bit. Because long-term predictions are so unreliable. It generally seems better to concentrate on problems which definitely exist now. Rather than problems which may or may not exist in the future.

Effective Altruism is a new topic for me, it will help me when I win the lottery.😃

This overwhelming arrogant ignorance is so disheartening.

In a weird way, this makes me feel blessed for always having been too poor to even consider buying cheap and dodgy cleaning services, car washes (because I've never owned a car), child care, etc. If you don't enter the economy, you can't do any harm in it. :-)

If money given away comes with terms and conditions then it's not really altruism or 'given away'. Also... if drug companies were unable to protect their products with patents they wouldnt be in a position to hold sick people to ransom.

@michaelbell6894

Ай бұрын

But then I guess you'd reduce the incentive for research and development of new medicines.

If your personal wealth continues to grow by billions every year then you are not being altruistic. The first stage of being altruistic would be to take the necessary steps to prevent your wealth growing every year.

@spamcrud5639

Ай бұрын

You could stop inventing reusable spaceships. Stop inventing new types of battery. Stop developing the engineering of EVs. Is that what you mean?

@stephaniefairey8633

24 күн бұрын

Rubbish. More money for you means more altruism for them.

@john_halifax

24 күн бұрын

@@stephaniefairey8633 But where is this "more money for you" coming from? I assume that would be the "them" who are then lucky that you give a little back to them. That is a real God complex and won't end well

Flipping 'eck she's brainy. Enjoyed this.

@eoinoconnell185

Ай бұрын

There's something 'off' about her. Can't put my finger on it. All she seems to do is criticise.

I’m with you on Ralph Fines. Not only his looks but his voooiiiicee💞🤪😍🥰

There are people who will give according to these principles and there are others who will give according to what appeals to their own feelings. Everyone is different.

@mihaelacomanescu

Ай бұрын

Because their values and motivations are different. Their characters are different.

So what would you do with all that money power?

This negative critique of philanthropy - where a man is GIVING AWAY $5 BILLION dollars really underlines the saying "No good deed goes unpunished". Obviously, he would be better to blow his money on himself hedonistically, because then he wouldn't be in a video highlighted as a "Dark Elite". I challenge this guest to put HER money where her mouth is. There was no one stopping her from helping the homeless she was stepping over in San Francisco on her way to interviewing these philanthropists to write about (for the benefit of herself). Giving away billions has to be done based on something. Just because it's thought about in a way that is more logical than led by the heart, doesn't mean it's ugly or wrong. Those people or things that are helped are also worthy. Preserving history and art for future generations also has it's place.

Wow..😮 😢

I find the idea of thought-experiments a bit dumb. There was one on Radio 4 recently where the contestants were asked if they would shift a lever to move a train that was heading for 3 people, to one that had just 1 person on it. Everyone on the program made a massive fuss about what was the most 'empathetic' course of action. It was pathetic. All it showed was that people act like twats in a crowd, as if we didn't already know.

@tommymarco

Ай бұрын

I like that word twats, explains everything about ppl in a crowd

@andybrice2711

Ай бұрын

I think thought-experiments are really useful. They make you consider your own morality in a clearer way. And for most people, such decisions are hypothetical. But if you're a medic, a solider, or a firefighter, then you have to make tough moral calculations like that every day.

@Szlater

Ай бұрын

You’re describing “The Trolley Problem” one of the most famous ethical thought experiments in philosophy. The whole point is to provoke discussion as there is no “correct” solution. I’ve used this problem in class a lot and every time the discussion is different, and it is a good and engaging way to get people to think about a difficult problem. It can be extrapolated to real life situation fairly easily too.

The scenario of saving a child or Picasso is very abstract since the mechanism of converting the value of the latter into life saving isn't explained. How much would the means of acquiring the painting affect its sale value?

@user-fq1oj2tr3v

5 күн бұрын

Seriously. It's just paint on paper in the end.

Altruism is the unselfish concern for other people-doing things simply out of a desire to help, not because you feel obligated to out of duty, loyalty, or religious reasons. No i don't believe in this, we may not know it or think about it but we some times do this for a pay off that is not immediately apparent, the pay off can be meta, delayed, not easily calculated, but can benefit you indirectly so is not selfless but a un-thought strategy for a better social environment for others and you.

It is a good idea to ask how effectively one's resources are helping people, but the count of people being helped is one of many potentially meaningful considerations. There's room for multiple approaches to altruism. Some wealthy people will focus on children in Africa, which is good. Others will focus on disadvantaged people nearer to them, which is also good.

“Clever girl” from Jurassic Park

John le Carré wrote the book The Constant Gardener, read it before you see the film. Both are great though.

It absolutely does not surprise an elitist would save a Picasso over a child. Their entire lives and identities are materialistic and power driven, and not to mention Picasso was a womanizer and creep, so it makes sense.

@DiffuseAppearance

Ай бұрын

Ok let's say you have the choice to save a child or a doctor. Who do you choose? The doctor who could save innumerable or the child who can't?

@musicninja98

Ай бұрын

​@@DiffuseAppearance That isn't the same scenario and misses the point being illustrated.

@VesnaVK

Ай бұрын

@@DiffuseAppearance By "a Picasso," she means "a painting by Picasso." Not "a painter like Picasso." That is, would you save a child's life, or an artwork of historical significance. I can see how the phrasing (save a Picasso over a child) can be read either way, especially as she goes on to talk about Picasso's bad moral character. But in this case, it's the painting that they're talking about.

@DiffuseAppearance

Ай бұрын

Ahh that makes sense lol. Thank you

@VesnaVK

Ай бұрын

@@DiffuseAppearance you're welcome! 😊 ❓🎨❓🧒❓

Andrew, u should interview gary stephenson, his view is so interesting eqaulity .

Every move she makes, every step she takes...... Jenny and all of us can trace harm to another human

Rutger Bregman should be an interesting character for you to interview about altruism as well.

I’m only a cpl minutes in & I’m fascinated!! 🤯 Edit: Just finished watching the whole video and this is my favourite video and guest you’ve ever had on (that I’ve seen & in my personal opinion). So thought provoking & interesting. Thanks 🫶🏼

I don't see value in a Picasso, and any such value relies on a greater public trust. This, like anything is subjective opinion. What guaranteed future exchange is to be made that this Picasso actually generats a useable lump sum that is directly linked to some financed good we can calculate?

Greetings Andrew. I’ve resent my email reply regarding your autograph forThe Psychology of Secrets I’ve preordered. Looking forward to reading your book! Cheers🤘

I need a new roof and a better car (I'm 69 and retired) all for about £15K. Not qualifying for help because I am a homeowner. It would be cheap altruism for someone out there.

@chrisbuggy4849

Ай бұрын

I'll swap my crap car and failed roof with you if that helps..

What would Picasso do? Would he save the child or his painting? Wonder if we could run the question through AI?

society does thing they dont have to in order to help people -> people forget that they are the exception for being nice -> people get mad and suggest society is evil for not helping more

When I lost my leg, I didn't have a choice

This was interesting

This is utilitarianism. It demonstrates a lack of concern for people and a conviction quantity is more important than quality.

She's just talking about Utilitarianism. Not a new idea.