Jonathan would make a great "Q" in the next Bond-Movies.

I love the concept of the needle rifle with paper cartridges. A case of an engineer taking what was possible at the time, "turning it up to 11". Thanks for bringing this to us.

@Bird_Dog00

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Metallic cartridges predate the Dreyse needle rifle, but mass-manufacturing on the scale needed to supply an entire army was simply not yet feasible. Still, it was an awkward system, and as soon as mass-manufacturing of metallic cartridges was feasible, the needle rifles were obsolete.

@allangibson8494

Жыл бұрын

Dreyse was an apprentice working for Pauli in Paris who developed twin barrel centerfire metallic cartridge rifles in 1812. The rifles were rejected by Napoleon as being too complicated logistically to support. The other problem with them was that they lacked extractors for the cartridges but otherwise looked like modern double barrel shotguns other than having a rifled bore.

@marvintodeo5221

Жыл бұрын

@@Bird_Dog00 i also think they were expensive at that time, not until in 1871 with the Mauser rifle.

@marvintodeo5221

Жыл бұрын

@@allangibson8494 thats cool, first breach loading rifle tho by the british the furgesson and that was in 1770s? 🤔🙂

@allangibson8494

Жыл бұрын

@@marvintodeo5221 The Ferguson had issues with powder fouling that made it marginal as a sporting weapon… The biggest issue with cartridge guns was metallurgy of the cartridges. Cartridge brass is actually hard to make - the 30% zinc content is hard to consistently achieve because it wants to evaporate from the mix at smelting temperatures…

Obturation is a fun and interesting element of early bolt actions. The chassepot did it with a large rubber washer. But that did mean another part to occationally replace. Both the needle and the washer.

Is currently 100° outside I'm sitting in my truck with the air conditioning on watching Jonathan talk about something he is passionate about. Thanks.

The Austro-Prussian War of 1866 seems to have shown the rapid-fire needle gun was tactically superior to the rifle musket.

@tommyscott8511

Жыл бұрын

Due to doctrinal demands of the time, that seems sensible. When you're massing fire at another massed group of opponents, ROF seems superior to accuracy.

@johnrohde5510

Жыл бұрын

@@tommyscott8511 the weakness of the rifle musket was that, to take advantage of its superior long range accuracy, it was necessary for the soldier to estimate or have estimated for him, the range to which to set his sights. In the din of battle, through gunsmoke, that was very difficult. An opponent pressing forward could get under the parabola of its low velocity bullets if sights weren't carefully and continually adjusted. The weapon could be deadly in the hands of dispersed marksmen but they hadn't the rate of fire to stop a charge.

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

The American civil war shows the limitations and good uses of the rifled musket.

@johnrohde5510

Жыл бұрын

@@noneofyourbusiness2997 maybe but neither side made us of breechloaders on a large scale. Prussian tactics gave a combination of firepower and shock, as Austrian rifle musket fire was incapable of holding them at long range. The French experience of 1859, when they had the edge in being completely rifle-musket armed, was to stress the rapid advance or the zouave rush, rather than stand off shooting. That was the lesson the Austrians took too, with their subsequent Stosstaktik. Paradoxically, the limitations of the rifle-musket favoured the attack and the needle gun added superior punch at closer ranges to that attacking doctrine, countering the bayonet charges that the French and Austrians had learned to use. In entrenched positions, behind obstacles, the range and accuracy of the rifle-musket was likely to tell and there were plenty of such situations in the latter years of the ACW.

@XMysticHerox

Жыл бұрын

There were more factors to be fair like Prussia starting to adopt smaller unit tactics, a general staff and in general modern command structures while Austria was still largely stuck with Napoleonic tactics. But yes the needle gun was almost certainly superior.

Hello Jonathan, We have featured shooting most of the Dreyse military models on our channel with and without their respective bayonets for ballistic evaluation. Furthermore, we adhere to the exact reconstruction of the cartridges and the rolled and swaged sabot. All the different models of cartridges have been evaluated: M/41, M/47, M/55, the M/55 Karabiner Patrone, M/72 and the experimental Versuchss Kompressionsgeshos. Also have included the First Pattern Enfield copy of the Dreyse rifle in our book. Keep up the good work, Regards, G and L A-R-West FHBSA

@karlwilhelmmeinert7592

Жыл бұрын

* Versuchs-Kompressionsgeschoss

@20:10 The ability to fire three rounds a minute in any weather? That's soldiering!

I personally own an 1860 Dreyse Fusilier Rifle. Very interesting piece and, of course, incredibly fun to shoot.

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

Amazing - I'm not jealous at all. (I do lie on occasion)

I was right! Okay, the only time I've heard of the Dreyse needle gun was in a textbook about German history (for German language class) in which the Prussian-Austrian War was described as being very brief due to the needle gun. I assumed the "needle" part of it, given the era, meant how you fired the cartridge and then relatively promptly forgot about the whole thing given other subjects of greater import. It was 1987 as it happens. So, nice to know that teenage me wasn't completely clueless when turning text into visualised idea all the time.

@Bhartrampf

Жыл бұрын

I have one that was converted to 12ga, interesting gun

@aaronleverton4221

Жыл бұрын

@@Bhartrampf Sounds very interesting.

@cvmaniac7286

Жыл бұрын

Ian of Forgotten Weapons (as well as Othais and Mae of C&Rsenal) reviewed the Dryse needle pistol if i remember right. Don't know or remember if they covered the rifle.

@peterstadlmaier3107

Жыл бұрын

Making the Zündnadelgewehr responsible for the outcoming of the Prussian-Austrian War is very popular but too much simplyfied.

@aaronleverton4221

Жыл бұрын

@@peterstadlmaier3107 It was a book for 12-year old language students, not 18-year old history students.

This man is wearing a calculator watch in 2022. We should probably trust what he’s saying.

Thanks Jonathan and team. It was really interesting to see those rifles - I'd never seen the Enfield version before.

To see a Dreyse in action at speed to get an idea of the RoF over a percussion rifle at the time: kzread.info/dash/bejne/npN9sNqjqrHVfLw.html The minié is a british idea? Monsieur Delvigne is spinning in his grave ;-) The annular recess in the Dreyse bolt is to encourage swirling of the propellant gases to combust the case and blow out any debris. The later Beck conversion (in my vid) has a separate flat mobile breechface with a rubber/leather gasket behind it. The breechface acts like a piston upon ignition to squash the gasket outwards to seal against the inside of the chamber. It's essentially the Chassepot principle shoehorned into a Dreyse bolt.

@mikehoare6093

Жыл бұрын

hey jolly ol´ chap, the chassepot is superior in every way, known fact. what kind of lead do you use in your cartridges ?

@thebotrchap

Жыл бұрын

@@mikehoare6093 Lead hardness or bullet type? I use pure lead and the bullet varies on the type of cartridge I’m making. From a period correct profile to a good ole traditional 405gr 45-70 bullet.

Thanks Jonathan , fascinating stuff always . Bloke on the Range recently posted a video about his Dreyse needle rifle and showed us some examples of the ammo He was trying along with the groups , it's well worth watching . Thanks again catch You next video .

Thank you so much for this video. I'm very fascinated with the early introduction of breached loading firearms while muzzle loader firearms were still used in the military. There is hardly anything about the history of this phase and of the reasons of thinking behind the decision's to keeping muzzle loader over a breach loader firearm. American civil war ten years after the Crimea war the muzzle loader was still prominent but plenty of photography taking place.

If only someone at Enfield in 1850 had come up with a cartridge design similar to the Chassepot (which is more accurate compared to Dreyse cartridge) the British could've adopted a technologically very advanced rifle for 1850s. Imagine the advantage it would've given the British against the Russians in the Crimean War.

@jordansmith4040

Жыл бұрын

Given that the Russians in the Crimean war were lucky to have functioning flintlock weapons, I'd say the British and French had an advantage either way.

@hendriktonisson2915

Жыл бұрын

@@jordansmith4040 Yes I know that. So if the British would've had these technologically advanced rifles their advantage would've been much bigger.

@jordansmith4040

Жыл бұрын

@@hendriktonisson2915 agreed.

@williamromine5715

Жыл бұрын

One of things to keep in mind is cost and production time. A muzzleloader is cheap and easy to produce. Interchangeable parts was a thing of the future. Even within the same factory, every gun was almost hand built. It took a specialist to fit the parts together. With the Brown Bess, that's pretty easy. With the Needle Gun(rifle), production is slowed greatly, and costs go up. That's not even considering the ammunition problems. Since the British were more advanced than the Russians, I can see why the decision was made to stick to what was tried and true. Interesting hypothesis though.

@jordansmith4040

Жыл бұрын

@@williamromine5715 I would think that replaceable/interchangable parts would be essential for the production of breech loading rifles. It had been developed by this point, so it's a matter of integration.

That was very interesting, I was unaware of the needle rifle. Thank you.

Always something intriguing from the vault; it would be interesting to see a cartage for these rare weapons, whether a original or modern mockup

A WONDERFUL INTRODUCING

Those are beautiful guns.

There is no way the collection's only example of a firearm with the same name as a Halo weapon is number '117'.

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

😃😆😅🤣

@ckl9390

Жыл бұрын

That wasn't their only example, just their oldest of that type.

I don't have a Dreise, but I do have it's predecessor... an 1828 Danzig conversion.

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

WOW - I'm jealous.

RIP Queen Elizabeth II That aside , im glad you did this Vid , ive always wondered how the Needle rifle worked and what the Needle referred too. Cheers Jonathan

*Question for Jonothan* - What are your favourite firearms, and what's in your personal collection?

Soo beautiful weapons. The one shot period in history of killing each other is magnificent!

I always wondered why the British never continued testing the more advanced Needle Rifle upgrades which continued to be made 1855-1865

Great video

I love my Dreyse rifle, and my two others b-powders Chasspout and my Burnside carbine

Is Jonathan wearing one of the classic calculator watches?

@MNewton

Жыл бұрын

It seems so! How novel.

@alfredvonschlieffen6813

Жыл бұрын

i think its the modern reissue.

I bought myself a really really great Chasspot from '66 just a couple of days ago. It has probably never seen a battlefield in it's days and was kept in gun racks early on. Only needed to refinish the stock and some minor rust removal from the barrel and bolt-action itself. It looks like it has left the factory just a couple of years ago. I believe the Chasspot really took from all other needle rifles and combined it into one. Probably because France held onto it for the longest.

For an englisch man, the pronuncation was really good. Greetings from Germany

Mom, can we get a cartridge rifle? The cartridge rifle at home:

A quick guide on how to (at least approximately) pronounce Zündnadelgewehr: Tsind (similar to cinder, to which the word zünden (ignite) is probably related) - nardel - gay (but without the y) - vere (like where, but with a v).

Howly cow I never heard of this! An Enfield needle rifle, thanks so much for making me feel dumb.

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the Hobbes

Hi Johnathan, can you do a video on some artillery in the collection?

A few years back a firearms dealer showed me a needle rifle made by LSA that looked like it had some sort of copper obturator. Would love to know what it was.

It's really good to see how much this show has progressed! I'm savouring this format before the channel gets too successful annoying ads start to creep in! :P

Watch? What type of weird voodoo magic is that wrist device

"Master chief. You mind telling me what you're doing in 1848?" "Sir. Finishing this colony."

I would have liked to see a cartridge and the casing for the needle rifle to see the design where the firing was located

@Losantiville

Жыл бұрын

Look up channel “paper cartridges “ or channel “capandball”

Oh shit, I moved an old couple who had this exact rifle under the couch and I couldn't figure out what it was. Huh the more you know

Interesting fact, Draiser did invent the first kind of bicycle, a “Draisine”, too.

Hi, please can you give me some advice about how best to clean and preserve an old rifle. I have a Martini Henry from 1875. It is rather gunky from all the old, dirty grease in the mechanism, so I think I need to clean that off and then apply some fresh oil. Grateful for your thoughts!

Quick couple of questions Jonathan. When the British Army was using the Martini Henry Rifle, the American Army was using the Trapdoor Springfield, Gun to gun comparison which was the best ? 2nd question during the War of 1812 The Americans used the Springfield Musket and Harpers Ferry Rifle, how did they compare to the British Brown Bess and Baker Rifle ?

@justacentrist4147

Жыл бұрын

Having shot both id say the martini was a better gun. Not as easy to clean but one smooth action opens the breach ejects the empty cartridge casing and re-cocks the weapon. Smoother to load as well. Not trap door floping around no exsposed hammer in the way.

@robertbodell55

Жыл бұрын

@@justacentrist4147 which is to be expected the martini Henry was a purposely designed breechloading rifle, while the trapdoor springfield was a conversion from a muzzle loader to a breacher loader, more analogous to the earlier trapdoor conversion Snider- Enfield breachloader

@88porpoise

Жыл бұрын

As noted before, the Martini-Henry was the next step ahead with fewer actions and motions in firing. The Trapdoor would be the equivalent of the Snider-Enfield. But would that have been a big enough difference to make a real difference in a large battle? My money is on it not mattering. But if I had to personally bet my life on one, Martini all the way for the fewer actions required. For the muskets, it was almost certainly close enough for it to not make any difference. The Americans found some issues with the Springfield and updated them, but the recent British updates were still filtering through the system at that time. In the end the Americans modeled their muskets on the French, and those were well proven to be effective. In the end, it is rare that a major military rifle and it's counterparts weren't close enough to not make a real difference. For example, the amount of ink and bits devoted to G98 vs SMLE and Kar 98 vs No4, while you can argue until the cows come home which is better they were both close enough that if you swapped them it would make no difference.

When I was a lil tacker and didn't know much about guns or ballistics and I heard of the "needle gun" I thought it literally fired needles or needle like darts at the enemy, how immensely disappointed I was when I found out it wasn't so, but then immensely impressed with the mechanism once I grasped how much of a leap forward in technology this was compared to everything else at the time

@llamallama1509

Жыл бұрын

There are needleguns in the way your younger self thought, they're sometimes called flechette guns.

Damaged cleaning rod on dreyse or stacking hook?

What stopped the needle from simply pushing the cartridge forward with mechanical force?

surprised the Brits didn't use the needle rifle(thanks to Arthur Wellesley for that)

What i need to know is if Jonathan has accidentally broken any firearms

What was the role of the ramrod on the Prussian gun? Clearing misfires? It appears to had been used rather vigorously.

@brittakriep2938

Жыл бұрын

Cleaning the barrel with brush or piece of cloth?

@herocommand

Жыл бұрын

cleaning and clearing a stuck round

I mean would you rather use this needle rifle or a musker

It seems quite expensive to swap to for the benefits. At least ramming sweeps the barrel. I'm not sure how great it is until smokeless. Cooked off paper in the chamber, and expensive cartridges meaning less practice/ drilling.

“Only used in 1848, when an uprising happened.” LOL. Only a Brit would refer to the continent wide Revolution of 1848 as an “uprising “.

@greycatturtle7132

Жыл бұрын

Yea

@Ghelasin

Жыл бұрын

Well yeah, the Schleswig-Holstein Uprising(this is in fact, one of the two commonly accepted names for the conflict, the other is the "Schleswig-Holstein War", it is never referred to as a Revolution.) was, in fact, an uprising, which the Prussians supported, but were not a direct part of. It might have ended up being called a revolution if it had actually succeeded, but it didn't, and Denmark retained control of Schleswig-Holstein. (It's also not generally considered to actually be directly related to many of the other uprisings and revolutions happening around that time period.)

@Anglomachian

Жыл бұрын

It’s only a Revolution when we do it. -every country ever. The Spring time of nations didn’t get that far in Britain, so it didn’t concern us as much as it would a place like Austria, Germany, or France.

@Ghelasin

Жыл бұрын

@@Anglomachian This wasn't actually connected to the "Springtime of Nations" though, those were a bunch of uprisings where the people tried to overthrow Monarchies, the Schleswig-Holstein Uprising was basically a group of Local Germans that wanted Schleswig-Holstein to be under German and not Danish control, with a lot of support from the German Confederation.

@justacentrist4147

Жыл бұрын

Its not a revolution if you lose.

Is that a Casio watch?

Interesting how military doctrine had reversed since Wellington's era. From fast as possible short range musketry, with rifles reserved for skirmishers, to much longer range accurate but slower shooting.

If the gas seal is perfect, it will fire 3 times and lock closed. Transformed into a club.

@mikehoare6093

Жыл бұрын

in the field yes, at the range it will fire 4 times.........

Why is the bolt so long!?

I gotta say, when I saw the name needle rifle, I was expecting some sort of early flechette design

“Riflemen All”

If anyone is interested to see needle rifles fired at the range, see capandball channel'ss video on Dreyse vs Chassepot - neeedle fire rifles of the Franco-Prussian war.

meanwhile the french went french with the chasspot design. which is a great gun, just didn't help winning the war

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

Should have; it was a much superior weapon of war. It just couldn't overcome the negatives of the rest of the French problems.

Imagine clearing a room with one of these🥵

"...British never used... an enveloping nose cap" SMLE - "Am I joke to you?"

@Ghelasin

Жыл бұрын

The SMLE was introduced more than *50 Years* later, and is not relevant to common British design practices of the mid 1800's

@TheWarmotor

Жыл бұрын

@@Ghelasin I am aware of this, was just making a joke... apparently it didn't land.

@Celebmacil

Жыл бұрын

@@TheWarmotor I don't know if it landed, but I was grooving to it.

@TheWarmotor

Жыл бұрын

@@Celebmacil Thank you, friend :)

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

@@Celebmacil That is worth much love.

16:05 toob sorry i couldn't resist

✌️

In the American Civil War the US was using Repeating Rifles, why didn't the British, I would imagine Isanldwahna might be different if they were using Winchester or Henry Rifle Repeaters

@snowflakemelter1172

Жыл бұрын

You have to stop to reload a Winchester repeater, you can fire a Martini at a steady rate as long as you have ammunition.

@geraintthatcher3076

Жыл бұрын

@@snowflakemelter1172 Winchester have 15 shots though and Henry have 18 And how long does it take to load them

@Bird_Dog00

Жыл бұрын

How widespread were repeaters in that time in the US? The US military afaik fielded a new Trapdoor rifle as late as 1888, when european nations were rushing to bring out their second generation of repeaters. Many armies of that day were reluctant to adopt a repeater for several reasons. They would mostly go for breach-laoding single shots until the 1870s or even 1880s.

@geraintthatcher3076

Жыл бұрын

@@Bird_Dog00 Repeaters were used in the back end of the Civil War. They were used at both the Battle of Franklin 1864 and Battle of Bentonville 1865 I believe Roosevelt Rough Riders in the Spanish American War were using Breech loaders but I could be wrong

@geraintthatcher3076

Жыл бұрын

@@Bird_Dog00 I know the Turkish Army used a mix of Breech loading and Repeaters at the Battle of Pleven in 1877 against the Russians

no range markings, just vibes

Two cones one seal

Bang rifles

they smashed the danish with this rifle in 1864

See it fired here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/h35k0JKCYNnVYdo.html

A firearm called the needle rifle rather than the Needler - what a missed opportunity.

it seems a bit long

When I hear "continental" I first think "the us?" Then I'm like oh "continental Europe" I would make a joke here, but given yesterday's loss, I'll just say "God save the king" (hopefully I'm not saying that too early)

@noneofyourbusiness2997

Жыл бұрын

nope - King Charles the Third, King of [many places, including King of Canada]

@handlesarefeckinstupid

Жыл бұрын

Your comment would be correct and indeed respectful. I went to a chirch service to commorate 9/11. Horribly overlooked over here

:)

holy mackerel your microphone is pitchy today, Jonathan. Had to kick the volume super low due to the percussiveness of it. Good episode though, as always, otherwise!

I would agree with Jonathan that range was much more important to the Brits than rate of fire at the time. I cannot hit anything much over 200m with my Dreyse, especially with the langblei bullets.. I have however hit 6ft frame targets at 900 with a Chassepot (..most of the time) and my P60 Enfield (nearly all of the time). I think it would have been a bit academic whether having a breech loader in the Crimea would have helped. The Thin Red Line was able to destroy the enemy before they ever got into engagement range. As pointed out by "The Chap" the hollow bolt head "Flammenkammer" or "firespace" was intended to allow debris to be blown out of the barrel.. it works pretty well!

I had no idea Master Chief was issued a needle rifle. Makes sense now that I think about it 😂 It's in reference to the number 117, his designation was sierra 117.

Made in Germany 🇩🇪 ' ...was always a thing?

So what English spy smuggled out one of those Prussian rifles to copy? Or was this design common knowledge?

@brittakriep2938

Жыл бұрын

In 1848 revolution attempt, a number of Zündnadelgewehre was stolen from a Zeughaus ( house for storing military equipment) by revolutioners in Berlin. This stolen rifles found their way outside of Prussia. No Spys involved.

@allangibson8494

Жыл бұрын

I suspect Queen Victoria asked he cousin for one. Prince William of Prussia was in London in 1848 (slightly involuntarily).

@granddukeofmecklenburg

Жыл бұрын

The brits had good relations with alot of the german states(including but not just Prussia) that adopted the Dreyse near contemporaneous to Prussia

@thebotrchap

Жыл бұрын

It was a poorly kept secret known as the "light percussion rifle" to mislead the competition. Pretty much all the surrounding countries had got the details of it by the time it became general issue. Espionage is nothing new.

@herocommand

Жыл бұрын

They were first used in a revolution so mostlikely via the same way the french got their hands on it (rather than family ties as another commenter suggest), feeing/exiled germans from the 1848 revolution that are stopped by borderguards on their way to settle somewhere else.

He's not Gun Jesus but he's OK.

its not soldered it sooderd

Jonathon! Play Contractors VR with my crew! I'll literally send you a RiftS free of charge. I will pay for international shipping. I'll buy you a goddamn GPU if I have to.

Really interesting video but the sound quality is pretty bad; makes you sound like you're talking through a tin can and a piece of wire 😕

you what, mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!! obturation quite effectively done ? and that from you ?????????????

Nah I was actually first

First

Nah I was first

@whoelsebutmeofcoursei

Жыл бұрын

Steve Nicholas has commented 9min ago. You commented 7min ago. With no way to proof who got here first, considering that one can reach the video, but not comment first, I have no choice but nominating Steve Nicholas as this video's "FIRST".

@ivanm.a9147

Жыл бұрын

@@whoelsebutmeofcoursei Are you sure about that?

Nevermind your pronunciation the sound is terrible.