The boiler that baffled me.
To support this content and get access to the PDF files to go with this training click here: / heatinggeeks
The PDFs for this video are not done yet!!! SOON.
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Пікірлер: 416
I have been doing breakdowns for 40 years and think your work ethic is excellent. Problems like this are always better when slepped on . Advise, dont ever give in. Well done.
@HeatingGeek
Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the comment. I haven't been in here for a while. Keep up the good work
@HeatingGeek
Жыл бұрын
Breakdowns are what make us.
I know your a good engineer when you take things like this personally, shows your emotionally invested as opposed to not caring , well done 👍 keep up the good content.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-). I want to fix everything.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@they're taking the peace :-)
Well done HG great fault finding work. I know well that tormented feeling, when you go home having not resolved the issue. You nailed it on the next visit, and that feeling is sweet when you find the fault. Excellent video, I relate to it very much.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
That's why I put this here. People think I don't have problems. :-)
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@H UK Thanks
You are s genius Ollie. Can't thank you enough for all your hard work to make those great videos 🙏🙏. Hope you and your family safe and healthy.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
All good here. Thanks :-)
Your dedication and perseverance is a credit to you ! After watching a few of your videos we are probably going to get your company to do a service on our boiler.
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Wait until summer. Its crazy busy :-)
You fixed it because you know what you are doing and have now learned from this testing lesson, well done fella
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Every days a school day. :-)
Love your videos
Absolutely well done mate. Been in the 25 long years now and I'm still learning. I too have a saying. "Nothing beats me". So well done again for sticking with. You've taught me something today. Lee
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-) This job can be very very frustrating sometimes. :-)
Well done HG👍👍👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-)
Love your videos, I’m learning loads. Thanks for all you are doing.👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
No problem. :-) I have more coming this week. :-)
Great content HG, I've learnt a lot from your vids and no doubt will continue to. You're a solid engineer and you clearly put the effort into recording, editing and upload videos to help drive up standards in the industry. Stay safe and keep up the good work :)
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Nice one. Thanks for commenting it means a lot. :-)
Great to see someone taking pride and care in you're work. If you're anything like me, when anything like that has got me hung up. It plays on my mind even when I should be taking time out/or I've resolved it.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Yes. Im a grumpy bugger at home too. :-(
Good job
Mint vid!!! Love how u showed how boilers can break us!!
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I was stressed on this one. :-)
Great video - thanks for the honesty and transparency ... not everyone is brave enough to show this side of the trade.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
The more you do it the less it happens.:-)
Hope you and your family are good, nice job.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Yes all good. You?
@leaturk11
4 жыл бұрын
Very well thanks, keep the videos coming, I've no work at all right now, but at least I can look at some! lol
Well done mate. Goes to show every day is a learning day.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Yep. Stressful sometimes. :-)
Awesome video Ollie, 👍. Brilliant how you went through the process to eliminate different faults, that would have fried my brain mate!
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It did fry my brain. :-)
Hats off!
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I have had a worse one now. :-) Got it all filmed... 3 visits. After visit 2 I nearly quit.
Great info
Thanks Olly. That was some experience and proper fault finding. It shows there are proper engineers out there when they pull their finger out.
@HeatingGeek
5 ай бұрын
:-)
Great vid I love these
Well done mate.😊
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Cheers! It was a difficult one. :-)
Great work 👊🏾
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you 🙌
Well done
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-)
Great you persisted and won through, we have all been there on more than one occasion that’s for sure. Great tip though always check connections
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It doesn't happen often, but when it does its nothing but chasing your tail. :-)
Always agree with walking away and coming back re freshed. Great vid btw
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-) I think we all suffer from not walking away when we should. It's very difficult. Lunch or a quick cuppa outside can make all the difference.
What a nightmare! that certainly was a difficult one! Another great vid, always very helpful, cheers.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it. :-)
I’m glad you sorted it
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
So am I :-)
Great video Ollie, its comforting to know its not just me that loses the head at times on repairs, even the best do! :D
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Yep we're all the same. That's why I filmed the second visit.
Awesome job, good catch
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It was easy the next day. First day was super stressful. :-)
Well done bud. Al.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. :-)
👍 Great video & I feel your pain. Glad it didn't break you
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I felt my pain too. :-) This ended well though. :
Really good video mate
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to watch. :-)
Hi king...keep well
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, you too!
Always a informative vid I’m sure this will help someone out at some point
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I will never forget it :-)
Great show of character by persisting with the problem until you won. Excellent.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Took some years off me. :-)
I like stripping old boilers and putting them back together again, learning knowledge and skills is only hands on, can't just read and learn. You got a truck full of skills, passion, patience too. Like watching your stuff, would love to have 30% of your skills and boiler confidence on repairs. It's a mighty long road. Knowledge can't be bought its gotto be learnt. Cracking job/skills/ motivation 👍👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I will learn about any boiler I can fix. Right down to the nitty gritty. If anyone does that on enough boilers they have no fear. :-)
@raymondhenry1708
4 жыл бұрын
Always on the look out for any old boiler, don't get many these days as I mainly service now, although the options of repairs/fault finding is on the horizon! Nothing ventured nothing gained...
Great video thanks 👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it
Well done 👍👍👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Cheers!
Great video. Leaving all the time.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Leaving? Why :-)
@brianmayne6513
4 жыл бұрын
Learning
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@@brianmayne6513 Oh ok. :-) Me too, every day. :-)
I love your videos. Good job!
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I love making them :-)
Brilliant mate ! Different fault codes throwing up is the sort of things that happens to me. Have to fight back the tears 😭 😂
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I was interesting at least. :-)
Nice video as always. Looking forward to the open therm video. 👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thats a long way off but I will do it. :-)
Here I would like to have a big thanks for Oliver Glicrest who come to fix my boiler, the way Oliver Gilcrest changed pump is so clever and work so effecient, the previous enginner did not fix the problem properly and also damged the valve, Oliver spend some time identify the valve problem and also fix the part in the valve, all problem parts position are in a very difficulty position, Oliver tried so hard manage to fix them, Oliver has such high standard skill to understand the boiler system and high standard skill to fix them, the way he is working in such professional way very suprise me. Here I highly recommend him to every one who need engineer to fix their boiler. Well done Oliver.
Gr8 vid & info as always Oliver stay safe and well from a fellow gasman
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, will do!
Excellent fault finding appreciate the video mate.
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
No problem 👍 Thanks for watching it. :-)
Another great video mate. I just repaired an exact same boiler but different fault. This might come handy the next time 👍🏼👍🏼.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I do love to fix these boilers. :-) But not this one.
I've had many a boiler do that especially vaillants, mainly due to not having to attend many faults on them. Know vokeras inside and out obviously. Great informative video there. 👍
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Vokera? They are quite rare down here now a days. Where are you base?
@marksherrit5874
3 жыл бұрын
I'm in Glasgow. Every housing association fitted vokeras, unicas, lineas and the dreaded red light compacts. Lol
Mate , as a new heating engineer, your videos are brilliant for me to learn off , u explain everything really well , so keep um coming mate , could u do a video on using the multimeter ? And what to Look for when using it ?? Thanks mate , keep up the good work and stay safe
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I will get it done soon. :-)
Just brilliant 👌
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-) Your comment slipped through the gaps.:-)
Brilliant mate
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
:-) We all get them.
Good work and I know what you mean about smoking I used to slip out to the van and have a smoke It was like pushing my re set LOL Keep them coming
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I will. I enjoy doing it, I just dont have any time. :-)
I was guessing some sort of moisture problem shorting out connections, well done for staying with it
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Drove me mad the first day. :-) Second day was a lot easer . :-)
I’ve had a few boiler where I’ve lost my head and couldn’t think straight but then took a time out and sorted the fault out! 🤯
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
We all do. I haven't had one this year. :-)
Nice one mate, good perseverance.. I'm not a boiler trade person but have had an 831 for about 14 years now (gone through all the early upgrades) and had a few issues over the years... I'm in another technical industry that throws problems at me.. I like your attitude to getting this fixed... sort of bloke I'd employ because I can tell you really do care and give a shit.. cheers interesting video as well.. especially your fault finding methodology..
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Nice comment. :-) Thanks for the positive vibes :-) Even the difficult jobs are interesting. Afterwards> :-0
Well done HG great find mate. We had the same fault in work with a ecotec pro 28 2015 model it didn’t have the thermal fuse still had the wires but with a link at the plug the only fault code that was coming up on ours was F28 gas after 10 to 15mins of running ok if reset straight after going to F28 would fire for continue to spark and go back F28 if left for a bit would work for 10 to 15 mins then go back to F28. The boiler had a 2.5 meter horizontal flue run all ok several engineers on job we had replaced p.c.b gas valve ignition probe and then ignition lead to finally find out the connection was loose on the thermal fuse cables. Had a couple of smoke breaks on that job 😂
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It's a weird issue. How it causes such unrelated issues I don't know. :-)
Well done founding the fault and fixing it.
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-)
F76 last one I did was main heat exchanger senser and the thermal fuse..
Very clever.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I just dont give up. :-)
Earth faults, I had a loo loo back in the day (looks skyward). Anyway, you live and learn, well done fixing it. One thing I used to do when faulting was send one man to check every fuse in the relay room, amazing how many times that cut fault finding time :-)
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Sometimes the simplest checks find the massive 2 month long issues. :-)
I know the feeling mate ! I have quite an old Ravenheat CSI system boiler that only fires up when it feels like it ! LOL, Goes through the cycle and sparks but does not ignite, Then for some reason at some point it decides to suddenly fire up ! It's driven a couple of guys crazy who have had a look at it but as it's old I don't want to start throwing new parts at it, I had the transmistors replaced three years ago as it would start up and switch off after a few seconds and another Gas safe fitter said it could be these again ! Hey ho, Well done for getting there in the end, Great work !
@HeatingGeek
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks. Ravenheat have a great tech department. The engineer should give them a call.
Exceptional investigation work well done and i hope its still working ok ,great video,thanks for post.
@HeatingGeek
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching it. 🙂
Good stuff - fault finding is a logical process that sometimes defy logic.😉
@HeatingGeek
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching and you are completely correct.
Another great one Ollie, real hands on stuff, tell it how it is. You’re, quite rightly, gaining a lot of respect mate. I’ve always known that you know your onions👍 Very interested in your OT & Bus videos, can’t wait for that one. There’s a lot of debate on that subject & there’s a large band of ‘so called’ experts out there. The Intergas Pin 5 Pounces, to name one of the bunch of tozzers. It’s going to be an entertaining one😂😂😂😂
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Im no expert on it but have some things that might help people. :-)
It was funny to see ur frustration
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-\
Another good one mate, had similar with an old sime, fried my brain, went back next day and sorted it
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Sime are a rare boiler. I have only seen a handful in my career. Always a difficult part order.
@mickeytee123ify
4 жыл бұрын
Great vid, just subscribed. Loads of simes around West yorks btw 🙄
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@@mickeytee123ify I don't see very many around here. :-
Saw a vid from a Vaillant engineer that said Thermal fuse will often fail to F62 as it begins to fail before eventually going to F76 so worth checking before replacing board - although it will usually be the board.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I found out the hard way. :-)
great info cheers bud
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it. ;-)
bloody genious,
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Bloody frustrated. :-)
Excellent 👍🏼✨great video ! You’ve been the first guy who’s made me create my own youtube account only for watching your clips as well as liking and subscribing . well done .
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
That's awesome! Thanks :-)
Hey love your videos .. they've helped me loads of times. When you going to post some more ?
@HeatingGeek
2 жыл бұрын
As soon as I can. I have loads filmed. :-)
Well played it’s basically like a Worcester EA where the electrode connectors expand with heat and no longer make contact causing no flame detection
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. :-)
Worked on vaillants before for many years and was Commonly Board or gas valve check the pin connectors on the pink plug far right pins should start at 15vdc then jump to 21v DC then back down roughly 18v dc if it doesnt faulty pcb not enough power to open gas valve as rubber gasket sticks shut when damp ( great to find one fault disguising another well done )
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks rob. I'm ex Vaillant engineer too. :-)
Nice shot of High Barnet in your opening
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Indeed. Your local then. :-)
@marke293
4 жыл бұрын
@@HeatingGeek Hi there I was born just down the road in the old maternaty hospital that is now flats spent the first 35 years of my like in Barnet. I lived down in east barnet and went to barnet college (electrician) Now living in Ashford Kent My Son is still in Hertfordshire Also like you a Gas safe Heating engineer
Time for a new boiler. My ecotec 831 gave me 10 years trouble free service but now I’ve swapped it out for a new one as a proactive measure. These boilers have so many sensors that can go wrong and from there, it will be one thing after another.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I get your point. I have a 12 year old ecotec in my house. I will replace it if the heat-exchanger fails but the rest of it is going ok. :-)
You know your onions mate lol coz some people would have said needs a new boiler... brilliant fault finding
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I really don't like to lose to a boiler. Especially a boiler I know so well. :-)
@garylawton7254
4 жыл бұрын
@@HeatingGeek mines the 2007 ecotech plus its been fantastic reliability wise changed three parts in all that time (1 was my fault long story lol) im interested in your videos as im sure its inevitable more things will fail eventually lol... is it just the larger vaillant combis that have the dip tube feature mate btw? Thanks
Throwing up that F76 initially from nowhere didn’t half make me giggle. Bloody boilers !
Have been there as well on faults
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Brain melts sometimes. :-)
Like you say sometimes we cant see the wood for the trees mate ! Well done.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks 👍
Great video , New sub from Massachusetts!
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Wow, you must be one of the first non UK subs. :-) Welcome
@rickyhertz7250
4 жыл бұрын
HeatingGeek Thanks , I find it interesting how heating is done in other parts ! I’ve learned a lot from you guys , unfortunately wall mount boilers are a very small part of the North American markets! They are priced too high and American homes just don’t have enough radiators to use these boiler for the full potential! people will install these , only to remove out door reset and bump the output to 80 -90 degrees celsius !
Thanks Ollie, very interesting vid again. Hope the Covid hasn't delayed your polyps surgery.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Cancled. I was ment to be in Cyprus today too. :-(
@rafflesnh
4 жыл бұрын
@@HeatingGeek Bummer. :-(
I felt your pain there
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I was proper stressed. :-) All good now and people like the pain. :-)
Keep up the good work 👌👍💧🔥
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I will try.:-)
Great vid mate. Can’t believe Vailiant don’t sell those thermal stats separately, had them go a few times.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It because they are to ensure the safety of the main heat exchanger. If it gets too hot the plastic will become compromised and leak fumes etc. 9 times out 10 if you link them out you will find the boiler overheats like F@#k and that's what caused the issue.
I got 2 minutes into your video and was itching to tell....I have the same boiler with same problem F62 and F27...fixed 3 days ago. After 2 years and 3 fitters and hopelessly out of pocket, it was fixed thur. 16 apr 2020, 2 days ago. Turned out to be Pump ( motor) and a new filter was needed. BINGO, job sorted
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
What filter? The Pump could of caused the F27. Check out the "Vaillant pump hack" to see how the F27 can be intermittent and the pump ruled in or out using the boiler software. :-)
Hi, I've got f76 and talked to Valliant and was advised it was the thermal fuse and it was part of the heat exchanger and would cost £625.00 to replace. I'm hoping it is the same problem as you found and I'll get a result, great vidio from an old school engineer 👍.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
If the fuse has gone then a new heat exchanger is needed. The fuse protects the plastic shell of the heat exchanger.
@haywardsteve
4 жыл бұрын
Typical not a repairable part, costs the customer £625 instead of maybe £10 rip off by Valliant
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@@haywardsteve Vaillant says if the fuse fails, its because the heat exchanger has been overheated to a point where the plastic case has lost its integrity. That's why you can't get them separately. But the new ecotec hasn't got one at all....
nice fix geek, bet it was a good feeling when you opened that gas isolator and she lit :)
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It was. :-) I think you can hear that in my voice. :-)
Fair play dude, f76 is death knell, you’ve kicked it back to life.... homage due
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I was very stressed about going back here. :-)
If you are getting beaten by boilers we best quit! Decent video
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
The second day it was easy. :-)
I've had this fault also,the connection to the stat can go poor is you have condensate leak from flue, normally clean up and they are ok, they also don't always show the fault. Top work.. well done.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
It's a difficult one to find. I will never forget it. What about yours?
@andyjennings2061
4 жыл бұрын
@@HeatingGeek been fine ever since, new seals in flue also
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
@@andyjennings2061 SO stressful at the time but you will never ever forget the fault. ;-)
Genius 👌🏼👌🏼
amazing
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Nice one. :-)
Keep doing what you do best then eh? Having a quality conscience is a gift and providing good , honest service at a fair price, is in itself priceless in in itself, so therefore you have learnt well enough young sir! Could’ve done with you recently myself,... I have an Xtramax 2 ,17 year old boiler,that as good as it is, keeps writing off thermistors,which are harder and harder to get through obseletion !, Shame cause its a Sebuk 87.5 rating and has given great service to date!! Anyway nuff about boilers eh? Stay safe matey and take Zero chances !! ATB Nigel
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
At the same time Sauner Duval had and version of that boiler. Xtrafast was ither the smaler GW or the SD. I cant remember now. I bet you can get the NTC from another model. Stay safe :-)
@nigelparker5886
3 жыл бұрын
HeatingGeek hi matey, staying well it seems in the 10 months since you sent me a tip on Gloworm xtramax alt parts, it was the case, so thanks again! Whilst I never touch the gas side of it, I do maintain the waterworks! I had a H E block after 17 years with the mag issue, ( bought a £30 cleaned one on line,with correct compressive rubber seals ,difficult access,but worked a treat!), tho I do make a point of refreshing with new inhibitor every 3 years or so?! The gas flame is a lovely stable blue so I don’t see the point of disturbing it, do you? I think as now genuine parts are available on line, more than they were a year or so ago, I would prefer to keep it going as have dad very little income since Covid kicked off! As I’m not sure who your target audiences are, I wondered if it could be a theme for one of your vlogs to offer your thoughts and pro opinions on the various levels of risk any diy folk should go to.! We all realise the dangers of gas, and that a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing in this regard! I appreciate what you do(well), and you have clarified certain questions I had before I pushed on with my maintenance work. So if you have time to reply sometime, I would thoroughly appreciate it! Stay safe and keep doing what you do, which in turn keeps others warm and safe! Cheers Nigel
Very logical diagnostics, good job... Recently I spent 5 hours on a Vaillant 146 ecoTEC Exclusive constantly stepping down to "emergency mode" and showing all sorts of error codes. I changed the CO sensor and it worked normally for about 15 minutes before it stepped down. When all was said and done I had swapped 2 new CO sensors and used, 2 new prints spoken to Vaillant for hours (thanks for patience and good faultfinding service). What was the problem? Eventually we discovered that the prints didn't recognise the boiler in spite of menu 93 showing the correct value, in this case 06. I then changed everything back to the original CO sensor and the original print and set menu 93 once again to 06 and it all worked. The Vaillant technician's response "I have no good explanation, it shouldn't happen". Later I had a chat with a radio technician that told me that this kind of fault is due to overheating and no ventilation in box that contains the print. Since then (3 weeks) I have always checked and reprogrammed all values when I previously just changed the print and in some cases that was all I had to do. I have stacks of old prints and now I wonder if all those prints actually works fine if they are reprogrammed?
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
I will go in a change the DSN if a boiler is messing around a lot. I tell it its 06 for an 824 then let it throw a F70 fault code (incorrect DSN). Then I put the correct code for the actual boiler in. Like 17 for an 837. For some reason, they just glitch out.
Nice one, full credit for bottoming this one out, wish you were local to me in Yorkshire....Root causing diag. is always a difficult one . +1 and +1 sub, keep up the great work.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks :-) Where in Yorkshire?
Electrician, but find your channel very interesting to watch . Your fault finding skills are first class. Knowledge is king , and you clearly have plenty . 👍
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks man. :-)
always great vids, i wish you lived near me, im having loads of problems on a vaillant VCM 240/1, so hard to diagnose.
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear that, Where are you. :-)
@leighmurphy7805
4 жыл бұрын
Spain mate, call out would be expensive :)
Gj , would have done the same , sometimes these fault codes get you on the wrong start
@HeatingGeek
4 жыл бұрын
This one was difficult. :-)
I done 30 years installing domestic and shoul
@Travels_in_nuevo
2 жыл бұрын
I done 30 years installing and should have got into breakdowns but lacked confidence so never built up technical knowledge Looking at ur videos I am thinking about jumping back in again but at nearly 57 and my gas ticket long expired Dunno if its worth it now Great work keep it up