Okay I'm certainly no airline pilot, but I would think that ignoring the plane telling you to pull up because there's terrain coming up ahead would probably not be something to ignore?

@carlosbarzottowirti1895

Жыл бұрын

Right??? "Man, I'm in the middle of nowhere, my altimeter reads 35,000 feet, this GPWS is telling me to pull up?", you pull up

@simpleman5688

Жыл бұрын

Zakly

@Incidental104

Жыл бұрын

Under these conditions, pilots face high workload and experience tunnel vision, hindering their ability to hear warnings. It's easy for us, watching a reconstructed documentary, to criticize their actions. In reality, pilots are multitasking and dealing with a chain reaction of events, causing their brains to zone off after a certain point. Many crashes are not caused by a single factor.

@rebeltvr6046

Жыл бұрын

@@Incidental104 Not a good excuse. If pilots are dealing with these issues ,they should not be pilots.

@tochallengethehorizon6487

Жыл бұрын

​@@Incidental104 To the point of not hearing WHOOP!! WHOOP!! PULL UP!! ? 🤔

The fact that this is such an underrated flight crash that actually changed the way pilots and ATC communicates around the world, is interesting.

@andreirau

Жыл бұрын

how is it underrated if it became an example and manual case?...

@Sleetstream

Жыл бұрын

@@andreirau Most people never heard of it, they are unpopular among the public. Even people that lives in the place where it crashed (Malaysia) never heard of it, let alone aviageeks nowadays. Pilots and ATC may have heard of it since it is used in training video and etc. They are useful.

@alanhinkel420

Жыл бұрын

@@Sleetstream that’s because 4 people died in the crash. No passengers.

@danielnovitadubin8272

Жыл бұрын

@@Sleetstream I think you should have chosen a better word other than "underrated".

@Ben-ks5bm

Жыл бұрын

@@danielnovitadubin8272 I think it’s appropriate

When tower said 2400 ft, I heard it as “to 400 ft” as well. But then I immediately thought, “there’s no way that’s right.” I’m amazed that no one questioned it.

@markwallis7199

Жыл бұрын

I'm 100% with you. Nobody has ever cleared me to 400 feet, it just doesn't happen even in my tiny aircraft let alone a heavy and they surely would have known it.

@ElementsMMA

11 ай бұрын

@@markwallis7199 The Captain had landed at this airport so many times you would think he would immediately realise 400 was incorrect.

@VPortho

11 ай бұрын

I find it mind bending that they never confirmed it from the ATC and just rolled with it. Even to me, who knows nothing about aviation, 400ft at that point sounds insane. Instead, they were talking nonsense in circles like a bunch of school kids doing a project.

@HesTNTonPMS

10 ай бұрын

That's what I'm sayin . . . . especially the fact he did not understand the guy on the tower from the get go. "What did he say"

@tryingtotryistrying

8 ай бұрын

2 7 0 0 was fine why was 2 4 0 0 not?

I'm not a pilot but I got chills hearing ATC telling him to drop to 400 ft. I would've at least confirmed the altitude ordered "Confirm you want me at 400 feet?". The confusion of To & Two is mind boggling. I also wondered why ATC didn't come back to the Pilots and say, "I notice you're below 2400 feet, please confirm?"

@hannamiros

Жыл бұрын

They reported their altitude each time, maybe the ATC didn't have in on the radar. From what I know in the 80s they used strips of paper to write down the altitude reported by the pilots along with the call sign and set those pieces in a column forming the arrival/departure queue

@schoolssection

Жыл бұрын

@@hannamiros Was the controller using radar? If so why were the Tiger crew asked for their position?

@virginiaviola5097

Жыл бұрын

What sane pilot would expect a drop to 400ft from the altitude they were currently at? In a 747? Logic alone should have made the pilot reaffirm with ATC.. ATC did nothing wrong. Two Four Zero Zero.

@uniqueurl

Жыл бұрын

​@@virginiaviola5097 it was ATC fault. He said ' decent two........ Four zero zero . Who would use numbers like that when it costs your life.

@rogerhornby1149

Жыл бұрын

@@virginiaviola5097 Right. If someone told you to drink sewage, would you just do so without question? 400 feet is way too low. Even a non-pilot would think this made no sense.

Why would the captain even think that 400 ft anywhere would be ok?

@andreirau

Жыл бұрын

because in these kind of jobs 99.99% of people do not think. they rely on instructions to be accurate and execute them. sometimes, the 0.01% is split into the 0.0005% who disobey causing havoc and the 0.005% who save an unsavable situation.

@georgeconway4360

Жыл бұрын

Because this crew failed by leaving their brains at home.

@intrstrnr

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering the same thing...

@slayer8actual

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Even if the runway was on the beach, 400 ASL is too low to be cruising around looking for a runway in zero vis. Now put the runway inland, add in some low hills, towers, buildings, and tall trees, and you're dragging your landing gear across terrain, rooftops and knocking birds off of branches, and that's supposed to be believable instructions coming from ATC?

@joemanganese

Жыл бұрын

Not even a glider pilot would think 400 feet is a long final altitude!! Short final with a small plane but long final with a 747?? They were totally out of their minds.

It blows my mind how the crew didn't care about the GPWS blaring, no approach plate to reference, NDB approach instead of ILS with autopilot down to 400 ft (?!?!), ATC confusion, CRM breakdown... perfect "swiss cheese model" type accident. So many safeguards that were ignored, terrible loss...

@alanhinkel420

Жыл бұрын

It seems like their experience was definitely working against them. If I were in the aircraft, I would’ve called ATC to double check the NDB and altitude. Especially since the Tower has an accent that is difficult to understand. I probably would have done the ILS approach to begin with. And the argument in the cockpit probably caused more confusion. I don’t understand what he means by “ No one has ever left this plane “

@yorkshirebikerbitsnbobs

Жыл бұрын

@@alanhinkel420 “ No one has "EVER" left this plane “? I don't get that either.

@Viking88Power

Жыл бұрын

@@yorkshirebikerbitsnbobs They died in it... Whats so hard to understand.

@yorkshirebikerbitsnbobs

Жыл бұрын

@@Viking88Power People previously have obviously"left this aircraft" The title is incorrect and poor in my opinion. Unlike the video which was quality content.

@sarahmacintosh6449

Жыл бұрын

This one has enough contributing factors for TWO accidents. I'm glad we are at least learning from it though.

I'm a pilot (private, not commercial). There are certain VERY narrow circumstances where it is okay to ignore the GPWS - these usually involve degraded-control emergency landings where the runway is clearly in sight. (If you can't properly configure the aircraft for landing, the GPWS will activate). Any other time you hear that warning any commercial pilot worth anything would *immediately* pull up, try to get to a safe altitude (usually well above the MDA) and reassess the situation. Basic ANC: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Fly the plane to safety first, assess where you are, and then communicate with control. Coming into an airport with extremely limited and confusing NAV beacons and *no approach plate* is plain criminal. It made this tragedy virtually inevitable. Ignoring the GPWS was just the chef's kiss on this horrible scenario.

@bazoo513

Жыл бұрын

"There are certain VERY narrow circumstances where it is okay to ignore the GPWS" Yes. As you say, it _might_ be OK if you know _exactly_ your situation, know what you are doing and know _why_ it is OK to disregard GPWS.

@mark5862

Жыл бұрын

This happened 35 years ago, some have pointed out that gpws were prone to false alarms. That 400 ft along with the alarm should have been a huge red flag.

@christopherweise438

Жыл бұрын

@@mark5862 - Even if it was a false alarm you still need to check it out to be sure. I couldn't believe they completely ignored it IN THE FOG. 🙄

@ArchTeryx00

Жыл бұрын

@@bazoo513 I'm hardly an expert on commercial aviation but I've read of several cases (and see them pop up in documentaries) of emergency landings where the pilot could clearly see the runway, but was dealing with degraded controls for one reason or another, so the GPWS activated during landing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some emergency procedures *specifically* said to ignore the GPWS, but that's about the only circumstances I'd be doing it.

@bazoo513

Жыл бұрын

@@ArchTeryx00 Precisely. If you know _exacly_ why you are ignoring the GPWS advice, go ahead and do what you have to do. But if it activates out of the blue, when you are low over unfamiliar terrain, you should better do as it says.

Wow this is probably the most cockpit audio chatter I've heard ever in a fatal crash.

@SuperLordHawHaw

Жыл бұрын

It sounds like he recreated the audio to make it easier to hear or did it from a transcript. It sounds unnaturally clear.

@GlutenEruption

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, definitely recreated.

@ronjones-6977

Жыл бұрын

@@GlutenEruption Or else the First Officer just happened to sound like a bad actor... every time he opened his mouth. I actually laughed at him.

@Mash4096

Жыл бұрын

They say "Real Audio" in the title. But the radio communication is completely fake audio. The radio calls don't contain any call signs or standard radio protocol. Maybe the cockpit voice recording could be real, but this sounds recreated too.

@popermen694

Жыл бұрын

@@Mash4096 wait dude. That was the issue. The ATC wasn’t using any standard call signs. That’s as one of the problems.

The crew chatter really shows off a crew why were tired and not willing to challenge poor decisions and weird altitude settings

@josephpacelli3691

Жыл бұрын

Along with the FO being angry either with the Captain or ATC or both

@steveleda7014

Жыл бұрын

v

@steveleda7014

Жыл бұрын

mm

@ernestkovach3305

11 ай бұрын

Crew seemed tired to me. Some irritation. Coarse words. Unawareness. Petty bickering . Symptoms of lack of sufficient sleep.

@humansrants1694

11 ай бұрын

@@ernestkovach3305 They sound like some fellas playing dominos in bar and they are ready to call it and go home.

I must tell you-I truly appreciate you and your efforts in making your videos so realistic and factual. Every single video is not only educational, but honors memories of those fallen in these crashes/accidents and brings light to these incidents. Thank you so much, from a very long supporter, I’ve seen a major evolution in your videos and they’ve been nothing short of amazing. I appreciate you and thank you for the work put in to every second, animation, story, and the love you have for aviation. ❤❤

@theflightchannel

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot man, I really appreciate your support! ❤

@delowarabegum5150

Жыл бұрын

​@@theflightchannel🎉

@M.S.44.44

Жыл бұрын

@@theflightchannel I’ve watched your channel for at least a year and it’s been amazing from the beginning. You really are graceful and proper towards even the monsters who do things like this on purpose (terrorists, when ATC makes mistakes, etc). You do so much research and it’s helped me realize my passion has always been in aviation. I’m currently working towards my Master’s in Astrophysics with a certificate in Spaceflight Aviation. I have loved the sky and flight sciences, aerodynamics, the science behind how airplanes work, so on, and when I stumbled upon your channel over a year ago (at least 1+ yr ago, if not longer), I got to see the inside stories from major aviation incidents I’ve learned of when growing up, in addition to learning all of the things that I think are amazing about flight dynamics in a concise, yet efficient and effective, way to learn about these incidents. You deserve so much credit for the work and time put into each video. I don’t think ppl realize the amt of work goes into each video, from the graphics to the accuracy of the facts. I watched several back-to-back the other day and it was unreal: you actually had people leaving the bus that took them to their flight and you see each person exit the bus and walk aboard the plane….every single person had different clothes, hair, briefcases, suitcases, carry-ons, everything. It blew my mind!! Thank you for what you do! There are many of us who appreciate you for what you do (more than you probably know)!

@renferal5290

Жыл бұрын

@@theflightchannel All we all truly appreciate you

@RJDA.Dakota

Жыл бұрын

I’ve watched this channel for over a year and the quality has always been amazing and has only improved. These videos are educational and have informational and archival content. So excellent. 👍🏻

I am not a pilot. But I have watched this channel enough to know that when a plane is flying too low to the ground an alert will sound. That being said, at the 10:58 mark, I started saying out loud: PULL UP! TERRAIN! TERRAIN! PULL UP!!

@RindaJane

Жыл бұрын

You too 😂 That has to be the most alarming sound to any pilot... except on this flight 🤦‍♀️

@johneyon5257

Жыл бұрын

@@RindaJane - when you watch more of these - you'll see that the alarm is often ignored - there must be many false alarms so that pilots get used to ignoring them - new designs are needed to reduce false positives - then pilots will react to the alarms properly

@RindaJane

Жыл бұрын

@@johneyon5257 I've seen many of these crashes. If pilots are ignoring the warnings I agree. Needs a definite Change !

@danielrn133

Жыл бұрын

A GPWS can sound on many approaches. I was avionics crew chief in military and I heard them many times and it wasn't an emergency. Not saying they shouldn't; have listened, clearly they should have, but it is not always an emergency.

@romansenger2322

Жыл бұрын

@@danielrn133 great way to lose trust in a safety feature.

The flight engineer was born in 1919! He probably had WWI pilots in biplanes as inspiration; crazy the aviation advances he must have seen/been apart of

@RatPfink66

Жыл бұрын

"Jennys to jets to space"

@harpomarx7777

Жыл бұрын

" .. been a part of."

@BlindSquirrel666

Жыл бұрын

Orville Wright got to ride in a B-52.

@M_SC

Жыл бұрын

I think it was 64 years between the first airplane flight and the first step on the moon

@rallymaster001

Жыл бұрын

@@M_SC Yes JUST 64 years! Less than a modern lifetime!

Aircraft pull up warnings going crazy and got ignored.......Such a tragic tale.

400 ft (equivalent of less than 2 wingspans above the ground!) - that's a stupidly low altitude. How they went with that without questioning it is beyond me.

@cindyknudson2715

Жыл бұрын

I wondered if there was a reason the FO was flying rather than the Pilot. The pilot seemed cavalier about a number of things. A sort of "Don't worry about it, it'll be fiiiinne." Attitude.

@Gusto0172

Жыл бұрын

@@cindyknudson2715 It's standard op procedure to mix the flight component tasks around, so the FO flying, rather than the pilot, is not unusual. Cavalier - indeed, 400 feet is essentially skimming the dirt, & they're doing that in a Jumbo!

@lebojay

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of when Michael Scott drove into a lake because GPS told him to. “400? Sure, if you say so.” 🤷‍♂️

@richhiner5156

Жыл бұрын

If I was in a Cessna and cleared to 400 feet I'd have questions.

@Link2edition

Жыл бұрын

@@cindyknudson2715 Unfortunately altitude doesn't care about your attitude!

Imagine being a pilot, dying in a plane crash, only to have the cockpit recordings played repeatedly in flight schools to show people how not to fly because you did such a terrible job. 😬 (edit: I really appreciate how many people are replying about how the guy is dead and therefore can’t care. I was not aware thats how it worked!!)

@erwinschmidt7265

Жыл бұрын

Brionyx - I doubt it woulda bothered Capt at all....remember he ignored shtload of Whoop-ti-dos telling him to pull up, but still did nothing!!!

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

Not that he is watching that!

@leagueG5

Жыл бұрын

Yep. His legacy is forever tarnished...

@jasoncentore1830

Жыл бұрын

I have to say you have an excellent point even being dead i'd be embarrassed

@anthony3295

11 ай бұрын

Imagine surviving and that happening!

At least it was a freighter and not a plane full of innocent souls.

@eddyriley2055

Жыл бұрын

my new PS4 console still has not been delivered, or refunded. sorry, im a bit drunk, looking for the ILS for home.

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they had it coming, didn't they!

The RAF nearly lost a Vulcan while training for the Black Buck raids on the Falklands in a similar way. I remember reading in a book about it that they locked the altimeter to 400ft for whatever reason. As they were flying back the pilot thought he was at 400ft, while the co-pilot, who was the only one using night vision, thought the pilot was showing off and said "I'm looking the sheep right in the eyes!". The pilot had no idea he was actually more like 4ft off the ground.

@fidelcatsro6948

Жыл бұрын

Sheep 👀

@jorgesuarez7073

10 ай бұрын

What you refer to as Falklands are the Malvinas Islands in Argentinian territorial waters. It is as if Argentina claimed the isle of Wight belonged to Argentina.

@maurvir3197

9 ай бұрын

@@jorgesuarez7073 Other than a brief period where Argentina mined the crap out of them, your country has never possessed the Falkland Islands. In fact, Argentina didn't technically exist until well after the initial settlements. Thus, if anyone has cause to complain, it would be the French, who built a settlement there first. As it is, the people who have lived there for a century are British and wish to remain British. So, they are the Falklands - though you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Tragic! Such a shame the Captain wasn't "familiar" enough with the airport to remember the 2,400 MDA on approach and the FO wasn't more forceful when things just didn't feel right to him. Another classy video. Thanks

@josephpacelli3691

Жыл бұрын

The FO was too busy being annoyed with ATC

@georgeconway4360

Жыл бұрын

The MDA is the minimums for a non precision approach. The 2400’ was the Final Approach Fix minimum altitude which they were cleared to by ATC. After they passed the FAF they would then descend to the published MDA.

@MrAcer4

Жыл бұрын

Always towers fault. They never told them they decent was too low on radar etc

@georgeconway4360

Жыл бұрын

@@MrAcer4 Bull Sh**! Pilots fly airplanes, not ATC. They were far too low for the whole descent until impact. You can can include the substandard of how American pilots manage their descents. Since ATC kept asking their distance and radial from VBA they clearly were not under radar control. It’s sad when people die because they were not doing their job.

While listening to the cockpit chatter, i get the morbid sense of nobody wanting to be wrong and the captain wants to be right and now is not the time to argue and let's get this over with so we all can go home.

@damkayaker

7 ай бұрын

It sounds like my father as the captain and me as co-pilot. He's never wrong and will argue to no end trying to prove so.

@thewhitefalcon8539

6 ай бұрын

They train this now. You've probably heard of it a lot already, but it's called Crew Resource Management.

@nikumimito3164

6 ай бұрын

Thats exactly the vibe they gave off.

The kind of work they put in their videos is unmatched... hats off

@ronjones-6977

Жыл бұрын

Somebody has a native speaker proofing his stuff now and it has really made a difference. These vids are better than ever. Quality job.

"Screw this stuff, let's go over and do an ILS". When you feel this is wrong and unsafe and potentially fatal. He did not insist though... Also, when I hear pull up at Flight Simulator, I always pull up, without even thinking. Pulling up will not kill you. Ignoring the message might kill you though.

@deepthinker999

Жыл бұрын

If something does not feel right, that indicates that questions need to be asked and answered. Even to me guidance to 400' does not make sense.

@johnmarksmith1120

Жыл бұрын

From the time the landing lights painted the top of that ridge until impact was milliseconds. Even if they were looking out of the airplane, nothing could be done. Their fate was sealed long before that. There are lots of links on this one and enough blame to go around.

@ronjones-6977

Жыл бұрын

I'm not a pilot and my only knowledge is from KZread, but I do know TWO things. When you stall, you push the damn stick forward and when you hear "PULL UP," you pull the stick backward. And yet, I still see pilots crashing by doing the opposite. It's actually kind of amazing... and sad.

@SluteramousSkankboard

Жыл бұрын

Does anyone remember where the township was or its name?

@fleurdewin7958

Жыл бұрын

@@SluteramousSkankboard You mean the crash site of the aircraft ??? If you mean that, then it is Puchong.

Well, the Captain lied when he said he was familiar with the airport because the ATC would have never told him to descend to 400 ft.

@dalereed3950

Жыл бұрын

That's the key. Captain thought they were cleared TO 400, not 2400. The correct number is TWO THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED.

@shojinryori

Жыл бұрын

And surely he’d be familiar with everything being labelled KL/kayell etc, so he’d ask for specifics? Pilot sounded grumpy so maybe he hadn’t had his coffee yet 🙄

@Bren39

Жыл бұрын

​@@dalereed3950 correct icao (this is intl) is 2-4-0-0. You read out the individual digits. You just have to use some common sense.

@Adeon55

10 ай бұрын

@@dalereed3950 Yes, but the OP is saying that if the captain was so familiar with the approaches at that airport, then he should've known that having his 747 told to descend to 400 ft was very, very wrong.

When I was flying right seat at United, I don't think I had a Captain not brief the entire approach, and reinforce the MDA. I never did an approach without the plate in front of me, pre Ipad days. Captains usually always said if the GPWS goes off, we're going around. NOW. Fortunately , I never heard that warning except in the sim. As a Captain, this crash was taught and studied in recurrent training at length. We learned a lot. Sad loss of the crew and the airframe.

@zephyrsky__

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing. It's tragic but also good to know such crashes are studied by pilots

@johneyon5257

Жыл бұрын

what i don't get is that the F/O was obviously bothered about not having the plate - why wouldn't he have it - or obtained it at that moment - would it have been too late

@mikedeal3466

Жыл бұрын

@@johneyon5257 good question. I've shot some approaches hundreds of times, but never once without the current plate in front of me. There are good captains and not so good ones. I was very fortunate to have some outstanding ones to train and guide me.

@lunayoshi

Жыл бұрын

@@mikedeal3466 Are there any other incidents that are taught in great detail about what not to do? Anything TFC has covered? I'd be interested to know what crashes were so catastrophic, they use them as teaching cases now.

@hannamiros

Жыл бұрын

​@lunabuna I don't think it is as much of catastrophic as it is avoidable. The main conclusions drawn from crashes are what to improve, it doesn't even need to be a catastrophe. Like the first plane to lose both engines in flight, a TACA Boeing 737, where no one was injured and the plane flew off to an airport after an engine change. They didn't even have a checklist for that cause it was considered impossible. Now there are such checklists. But I'm curious which accidents are used in official training as well

There’s one major factor at play here I didn’t see mentioned. Extreme fatigue. If memory serves, that crew was on one of its last legs (pun intended) of a very, very long trip that bounced through many time zones. After that accident, one of the changes made were policies governing how much down time pilots were given between legs, and how long the “lines” were. My pops was a 747 line check captain for Flying Tigers. I was lucky enough to have gotten to spend most summers as a kid in the full motion simulator with my dad giving check rides and recurrent training. Those Tiger pilots were a special breed… some of the best pilots of their time. Just goes to show you not only tragedies can befall you no matter your skill or experience, but also as the saying goes, “every aviation regulation is written in blood”.

@secondskins-nl

5 ай бұрын

Extreme fatigue can do a lot and while I'm no pilot I think that a clearance to 400 ft is something you will never get from ATC. Simply because that's the last part of the landing and the communication is not something you have during that fase with ATC. So it's beyond me someone actually dials the AP to 400 ft that action alone should, tired or not, have to make all three think this can't be right. Even without a map in front of you, 400ft wouldn't even be enough to fly over The Netherlands where I live. Well, mainly because of the wind turbines which weren't there in the 80s but still. Three people and not one wake enough to either question the 400ft or take some notice of pretty clear warning signals. That's indeed a special breed of pilots but not the best pilots of their time.

@Sushi2735

5 ай бұрын

Yes fatigue, but you always follow protocol and charts! No matter how exhausted. I get it, but this was awful!

@B3Band

5 ай бұрын

You intended a pun about this trip being their last? wow, what an asshole

Listen to the prior altitude calls from the KL Tower ATC and he uses the same phrasing each time. "Descend five five zero zero, descend three five zero zero, descend two seven zero zero". Never does he say "descend to" followed by the altitude. Not to mention 400 feet would be unusually low for an approach. The FO was clearly uncomfortable with the whole situation but the Captain kept pushing him to continue. Tragic mistake.

It is so unimaginable how much views you get in within a small time like 7 minutes . Truly great man .

There's now a little township where the plane crashed back then, I pass through it practically every day and it still brings me chills whenever I think about how a 747 crashed into here years ago. May the crew rest in peace

@Heart2HeartBooks

Жыл бұрын

Pieces....Not Peace.

@jonothedudeguy

Жыл бұрын

@@Heart2HeartBooks grow up

@BillGreenAZ

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the local perspective. Oftentimes we see these crash videos happen in lands far, far away. People who are affected by them every day like you, bring us back to how everyone in the local area is still affected.

@fidelcatsro6948

Жыл бұрын

The town should be called "Bandar Pull Up" in recognition of the humble avionics computer heroic attempts to warn the imbeciles

@johngaskell2199

Жыл бұрын

You live in Singapore?

This is not the type Captain you want flying your airplane. WOW

@robertmog4336

Жыл бұрын

He never flew again.

@fidelcatsro6948

Жыл бұрын

please understand..they didnt have Uber back then

Great video and I love the effort to overlay the actual audio. A lot of these accidents seem to be a combination of things and the checklists are there for a reason. Great to use it as a training video.

They reported to ATC descending to 400 after mis-heaing the ATC 2400. Why did the ATC not make a clarification?

@nomadpiloting

Жыл бұрын

Because the ATC is just as crap and contributed to this accident, its Malaysia after all with a reputation of demonstrated negligence and poor training

@tiadaid

8 ай бұрын

@@nomadpiloting This video, from which the recording came from, shows that the pilots didn't actually read back the instructions to the ATC. kzread.info/dash/bejne/c4uXyMV-eM67ddI.html The clue is in the background noise - whenever the pilots talked to ATC the background noise would be muted, however when the captain read back 400 in this case the background noise remained which meant that he was saying it only for the crew onboard.

This was an accident waiting for somewhere to happen, no proper approach brief (doesn’t have a plate out), thinks he’s cleared to 400’ never ever will ATC clear anyone to 400’, and the tin hat, no reaction to a GPWS warning at all after several precursors warnings. We used to use this as a training tool to reinforce CRM procedures, but it still grates on me that this was an incident that should never have happened even if they had reacted to the first GPWS warning they would have avoided it, but no the crew continues in an unprofessional manner right up to impact…..

@TrapKingz.

Жыл бұрын

Its not a plate lmfao. It’s a chart that’s called the approach plate.

@ElectricPics

Жыл бұрын

@@TrapKingz. It's called a plate in the cockpit.

This old saying fits pretty well. There’s old pilots and there’s bold pilots, but there’s no old bold pilots.

I'm clearly not a pilot but how many videos do I have to watch where the "whoop whoop pull up" alert is triggered... and no one actually even tries to pull up? Man... Great channel as always.

@johneyon5257

Жыл бұрын

if the pilots did pull up - they would never make it to this channel - which is a happy thing

@enzy6434

Жыл бұрын

Veteran pilots could become desensitized to the warnings due to false positives and it going off during safe runway approaches. So hearing that to this captain was basically just another day of business as usual and nothing to be alarmed over. (There were also more frequent false positives back then when equipment was less reliable).

@Cadence-qt2ux

Жыл бұрын

MOrons dead

@PySnek

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@enzy6434 But when you know that alot of false positives exist, than why aren't you taking a look on the MDA?? My god they are so lazy about this its crazy

So the alarm is blaring pull up and they ignore it, ok😮

@stephenturner6075

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! And it's pitch black outside so not as if the pilots can see if the GPWS is sending out an erroneous message.

@fidelcatsro6948

Жыл бұрын

maybe they thought it was a false burglar alarm

@Lilinator81

Жыл бұрын

this is a indicator, that they where at maximum stress level... so the brain allows no more input....only a good training can help to react in such situations

@lisapatino955

Жыл бұрын

That's scary and alarming 😢😢😢😢😮😮😮😮😮🥹🥹🥹🥹

@onasismuskita4065

Жыл бұрын

7 year old kids: THEY COPUED JAL123!1!

This accident did indeed cause many changes in the industry. I was still in the Air Force when this happened and can remember reading a safety report about it. Even though we practiced NDB approaches and often flew them on check rides, I can honestly say I've only HAD to fly two NDBs in my flying career, once near minimums. The key to all of this, and this crew was complacent several things, was a thorough approach briefing, checklist discipline, communication amongst themselves as a crew and with ATC. Questions are free. This was a long time ago, but many have learned valuable lessons from their costly mistakes. RIP

@ronaldfischer1195

Жыл бұрын

I'm in the Air Force now, on a multicrew aircraft, and we reference this crash during our yearly CRM refresher.

@Link2edition

Жыл бұрын

I am not a pilot so I have to ask, why would you do a NDB if you didn't need to? They had runways with ILS available. Was it just stubbornness or is there some kind of policy behind it?

@reggierico

Жыл бұрын

@@Link2edition That would depend on the weather, specifically the winds. If the winds, tailwinds, were out of limits, then they would have to come in on the NDB. I would have checked and definitely would have requested the ILS if it was legal. The time I flew an NDB to minimums was in Portland. The weather was 600 foot ceilings and we were landing to the west because the winds had swung around. We did request the ILS but were told that the ILS antenna was malfunctioning and that the only available approach was the NDB. Luckily, the wind was right down the runway.

@Edgy01

Жыл бұрын

When in flight school we RARELY practiced NDB approaches. Just fly what you are most familiar with like an ILS!!

@reggierico

Жыл бұрын

@@Edgy01 What if the NDB is the only available approach?

I am not a pilot but I am astonished at how many crash videos I saw with the airplane yelling PULL UP yet the pilots somehow deem it is ok to stay course. In particular when visibility is poor, if I hear PULL UP you bet I would instantly grab the yoke and pull the hell up THEN start to assess everything else. Planes do not joke and when it screams PULL UP you bet it is serious and you must take it seriously. No wonder the new planes automatically pull up when terrain is approaching and push down when nearing a stall… because pilots sometimes somehow ignore these warning.

Wow. tragic story, the complacence shown was astounding! Great job again TFC👏🏻👏🏻

Wow, just incredible the lack of not only situational awareness, but to let this sequence of events to play out like we just seen in this video is just plain crazy in my eyes. The first officer knew with his whole chest that this wasnt right, but yet he still chose to only verbalize his worry (terror) instead of taking control. Its accidents like this and Tenerife that we can clearly see why CRM training is so important and necessary in flight.

@RatPfink66

Жыл бұрын

He could've at least hauled out the damn approach plate...

@godarkertilldeath

Жыл бұрын

@@RatPfink66 I agree. I'm just literally still in shock after listening to this crew and all the extreme chances they took all the up to their death. It's actually very, very sad. My heart goes out to them no matter what. The F/o to his credit had the captain in his ear the whole time saying that the f/o was wrong and just paranoid. 🙄. Poor fellow new in his heart something wasn't wrong. But the crew literally just dismissed everything he said. He needed to scream at them both saying "give me the plate RIGHT FUCKING NOW OR IM GOING AROUND". And if I was the first officer I wouldn't have taken no for an answer.

@JESCO58

Жыл бұрын

Teneriefe even more crazy, since visibility was terrible and jackass pilot was in a hurry. Bad combo.

@deepthinker999

Жыл бұрын

@@JESCO58 Well Said !

One of my favourite channels! Thanks a lot for doing what you do keep growing 🙌💕

A 70 year old flight engineer, wow

@sarahalbers5555

Жыл бұрын

One of my first thoughts, too.

@ToeInMyJam

Жыл бұрын

@@sarahalbers5555 Same, I thought there was an age limit for commercial flight, but this may have been before that?

@rostrom8

Жыл бұрын

@@sarahalbers5555 He was only two days away from retirement, poor fellow!

@lot6129

Жыл бұрын

So, give me experience EVERY time

@fabmyride5181

Жыл бұрын

😂 70 ! I was thinking, I still have a chance to make it

When everything is called KL, you know there will be a problem

Aircraft as well as the sky can be very unforgiving with brutal results. It's best not to horse around, be complacent, or to not ask questions if you are confused. Ignoring the terrain warning in the case was sheer lunacy. Very good that the fight was not full of families headed home.

When he misinterpreted 2,400 as 400 and turned the dial to 400 I said out loud "Oh fuck!"

It's obvious to me that it didn't matter which pilot was flying the plane at the time of the accident because the Captain clearly would not have done anything differently. In fact, had the Captain not been there, it's likely the First Officer would have changed to the ILS approach runway.

Unbelievable, these three pilots had no idea where they were!

These guys were suicidal.. I cannot conclude anything else. The sheer magnitude of incompetence is beyond my comprehension. They hadn't decided on anything, brakes, flaps, anything. 400 ft is absurdly low for a 747.. a simple wind sheer wiull throw it to the ground.. Just insane... they must have been drunk.

@dc10driver1

Жыл бұрын

I'm a retired B-777 pilot, and I agree.

@ronjones-6977

Жыл бұрын

@@dc10driver1 When some non-pilot moron, like me, can tell that 400 feet is WAY too low, you gotta wonder... exactly how STUPID were these guys. Could that possibly be why they were flying cargo aircraft and NOT passenger planes? Just not good enough to be trusted with OTHER people's lives?

@Fiberglass_Insulation

Жыл бұрын

Fr, how could you think 400 ft is normal approach??

@cll1639

Жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing. 400 feet is ludicrous. And listening to the "whoop whoop, PULL UP!" as everyone simply and nonchalantly carried on totally unrelated conversation had me yelling "CAN YOU NOT HEAR THAT!?" Pull up, for God sakes, and figure out the reasons why later.

@Adeon55

10 ай бұрын

I'd have to say it's very likely that at least the captain was drunk, considering he was "very familiar" with the approaches at this specific airport, but thought absolutely nothing of having his 747 told to descend to 400 ft. 🙄

The First Officer, Jack, was my step father. I've heard this transcript many times over the years, but this one is very clear. My mom was on the phone with Jack the night before and she had a terrible feeling and asked him not to fly the next day. When the phone rang in the early morning the next day, she answered and said "I know." For those of you wondering why they didn't listen to the ground proximity warning, I was told by another Flying Tiger that the "old school" pilots would unconsciously block it out because when it was first developed it had a lot of bugs and would go off all the time.

I am not a pilot, But I know WHOOP WHOOP Pull up means pull up

@madsquirrelz276

Жыл бұрын

Ikr you would think they would take note I'm guessing what happened is that they developed tunnel vision which can even happen to motorists. where they become fixated on one particular task e.g. finding their exit, that all other priorities go out the window like checking before switching lanes etc Or they are so late they want to reach the destination on time that they fail to notice the fuel empty sign light up and end up breaking down on the highway. These guys got distracted to the point the pull up ! warning probably was more of an annoyance in the background than something to be concerned about At least that's my theory.

Currently the crash side is a mountain reserve, and lots of residential and commercial around. Ayer Hitam Forest Reserve, Wawasan Hill near Bandar Puteri Puchong.

Another Flightchannel video two days in a row!?!?! Awesome 👌

And their voices will forever live on, to hopefully prevent others from making the same mistakes they did and saving many lives and the heartbreak of those left behind.

@reshpeck

Жыл бұрын

Wasn't their voices, those were obviously actors reading the lines from the transcript (and doing a poor job of it).

@restojon1

Жыл бұрын

@@reshpeck read the title of the video, then revisit your comment.

@07foxmulder

Жыл бұрын

@@reshpeck I thought the same thing.

@expert_fretwork

Жыл бұрын

@@restojon1 Just because it says "real audio" doesn't mean it's the actual cockpit audio. The audio is too clearly recorded, especially for the time period. There's also too many unnatural pauses and breaks in the speaking cadences. It doesn't flow like normal conversation at all. When they interrupt each other, there's a distinct pause where one man's voice ends and another starts a beat later, instead of an actual interruption. These guys were in their mid-50's and the engineer was in his 70's. These voices sound like men in their 30's. Actors reading a transcript.

@whyyat3470

Жыл бұрын

Just because it says "Real Audio" doesn't mean all the audio is "real". The voices supposedly off the CDR definitely sound recorded later. Probably most the controllers' voices are real.

Im a kid who dreams to become a pilot and i live in Puchong . Learning about this incident happened close to my hometown is genuinely terrifying

@HaziqCTID

Жыл бұрын

Dulu Subang airport (SZB) Memang kapal banyak approach dari Puchong (South). Sekarang dah berubah, approach dari Rawang (Utara).

@AmriTiBriOlym

Жыл бұрын

@@HaziqCTID Ya sbb masa tu approach pathway dari south tak banyak bangunan tinggi2 & kurang padat mcm sekarang so aircraft masih boleh land runway 33. Tapi sekarang area Puchong, Shah Alam & Subang Jaya dah sangat padat, bangunan tinggi2 & banyak residential area so 98% landing kat SZB memang dari runway 15 je. Baki 2% biasanya aircraft yg lebih kecil mcm Firefly & Batik Air (Malindo) jenis ATR72 yg kena land runway 33 jugak utk elak tailwind kalu land runway 15.

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

You are not a kid. You are a BOY. Do not be afraid of saying it like it is.

@Alexander_Grant

10 ай бұрын

@@fredblahblah.6352 What the hell is this comment?

@fredblahblah.6352

10 ай бұрын

@@Alexander_Grant About your sexism.

I bet that was an interesting conversation when they arrived on the other side.

@christopherstuart607

Ай бұрын

There is no other side. Sorry.

Why on earth would any pilot ignore a GPWS warning ?? Also, you would think that with such an experienced crew everything would be fine. But sometimes experience can be detrimental in terms of over confidence, complacency, and reluctance to question seniority in the cockpit.

@jackierobertson1528

Жыл бұрын

You hit the nail on the head.

@OneTequilaTwoTequila

6 ай бұрын

They didn't ignore it. They didn't hear it. Whenever someone is overloaded, the first thing to go is their hearing. It's a human physiological thing that affects practically everyone. You can hear it because you're in the comfort of your home without any stress. You wouldn't hear the pull-up call on your computer either if all of a sudden you were presented with a stressful event like someone unexpectedly breaching your front door with a shotgun wearing a Michael Myers mask. Your hearing goes to shit when you're overloaded. It's not in your control. The pilots made the mistake of allowing themselves to get overloaded in the first place. Never allow yourself to be pushed into something that you're not ready for.

@AviationIsNice

6 ай бұрын

*​@OneTequilaTwoTequila* they went silent when the gpws played tho.

This accident/CVR tape has been shown in just about every CRM program I have been through as a new hire first officer. It's a really great example of non existense of CRM.

I worked as a mechanic for the company when this happened. We couldn't believe it at first. I didn't know the mechanic who was onboard but we heard he was standing in the cockpit doorway upon impact perhaps coming to see if there was a problem after hearing the multiple GPWS warnings.

@Chatta-Ortega

9 ай бұрын

I had planned to jumpsuit on that flight to see a woman I met in Paris. Luckily, my sister's wedding prompted me to cancel my plans.

when the plane goes whoop whoop pull up. you better go whoop whoop pull up

It feels like i'm listening to an inexperience crew rather than a veteran crew.

I really appreciate all your effort you put into these videos and for how much I learn. I will actually think of you while on my fight to London in a couple of months.

@restojon1

Жыл бұрын

"Fight" to London? You'll be flying with Jet2 then?

@Melissa-JC

Жыл бұрын

I hope you have a good & safe flight.

As a flight enthusiast and active flight simulator pilot (infinite flight), I highly aprecheat your channel, having helped me understand ATC communication while implementing it in the server based game. Also, all cockpits layout are 1:1 in the game, so when I watch your movies I always think ahead what I would have done in each situation. I even replayed some of the different flight scenarios (i.e. engine fire, faulty flight configuration and so on). I am now a level 3 pilot in the game, enabling me to fly on the expert server with real human ATC communication (approach, departure, tower, ground). My favorite airplane to fly is the A350 and the 777-200LR, as well as the new Embraer series. The CRJ family is my least favorite, as it is very hard to fly without AP on (1000 series in particular)...I learned all different flight approached (ILS, VNAV, etc) and flight planning while watching hours of your channel. By the way, my favorite airport to fly in is Lukla / Tenzing near Mt Everest - its also the hardest airstrip to approach - also, Auckland airport is beautiful to fly in..... Keep up the great work!

@fidelcatsro6948

Жыл бұрын

aprecheat?🤔

Evidently, it's important to have one's ducks in a row when landing an airliner.

@Adeon55

10 ай бұрын

Who'd a thunk?

This is by far one of the best short-documentary channels I've come across. Keep up the great work!

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

Green Dot Aviation is even better!

Excellent video once again. That blasé Captain was grinding my gears.

With a crew like this thank goodness it wasnt full of passengers... Still loss of life 😢 Rest In Peace to the 4 men whose lives were lost

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

... to the 4 MEN whose lives were lost. Afraid of saying it like it is? Have you been told not to use that word and are sheepish enough to comply?

@RindaJane

Жыл бұрын

@@fredblahblah.6352 Ha. I'm about the least sheep you will come across. The noun and pronouns is such bs. I do not follow the Woke Crowd/or The Leftists Ohh I comply with my beliefs No One else. You have a wonderful evening sir. This woman is calling it a night. Bye 👋

I llok forward to all of your videos BUT, I do have to say, you have been lately skipping the ending, as in , what happens when it crashed, how it crashed (nose first, wing tip ect), which passenegrs died and where they died, the clean up, ect. This would add a lot mroe value in the video.

@tiadaid

11 ай бұрын

It could just be that there's no details about it.

The Captain was careless and insisted the he was in full control. I know that is a harsh thing for me to say, but his attitude created a dangerous cockpit situation. He was the pilot monitoring when this happened, but his harshness to the pilot flying was grossly negligent. The First Officer, pilot flying, was somewhat assertive but not enough so. If I had been the First Officer, I would have keyed the mic as I added power and announced to the tower, "Unstable Go Around"! Safe and Happy Landings.

@deepthinker999

Жыл бұрын

"There are bold pilots and old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots". Another reason to stick with main line carriers if possible when flying.

This is equivalent to hearing Smoke & CO2 alarms in one’s home & goin’, “meh” - goin’ nite Nite…PERMANENTLY!

Yet another superb video by TFC, as expected. Keep it going please 🙂 Somehow though I keep thinking the audio is reenacted, it doesn't sound like it's from the actual pilots but more like from a movie.

TFC, I've been watching your channel since 2019. You've really improved, and inspired me to start my own series, and you've also given me a lot of insight into these disasters. Thank you, keep making these awesome videos. Love from Pennsylvania! (P.S., the disaster of China Airlines Flight 611 would probably rake in quite a bit of views since it's 21st anniversary is just days away)

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

Green Dot Aviation is head and shoulders above this channel!!!

@gaztastic

Жыл бұрын

@@fredblahblah.6352 Well yes, Green Dot also inspired my camera styles

Neither pilot nor FE had the approach plate out…..incredible.

@K1OIK

Жыл бұрын

FE?

@zuflis

Жыл бұрын

@@K1OIK i assume its Flight Engineer, the third person on the jumbo jet cockpit

@bsdrvr1

Жыл бұрын

@@K1OIK flight engineer

@K1OIK

Жыл бұрын

@@zuflis I wonder what he did with the time he saved not typing light ngineer?

@K1OIK

Жыл бұрын

@@bsdrvr1 what did you with the time you saved not typing ight ngineer?

I remember when this occurred. It was about 6 months prior to our (FX) take-over of Tigers. This audio, along with a video simulation of the accident, was shown in many of my maintenance systems classes. An example, as stated in this video, of miscommunication (non-standard terminology) between ATC and the crew as well as non-situational awareness inside the cockpit. The downward spiral into a tragedy, in many cases, begins with a miscommunication between the parties involved. If that is not noticed and corrected immediately things only get worse from that moment until there is no time to recover safely.

the flight channel is good to help my little sister and i learn to read.

I'm not a pilot but I play MSFS2020 very often and when setting an altitude of only 400ft for a waypoint (not even the actual airport) it makes me nervous and I check twice or three times if this 400 ft is the correct one. I am surprised that pro pilots didn't even try to make the ATC repeat the 400 ft request, just to be sure....😔

@ronjones-6977

Жыл бұрын

There were at least 2 dozen, I repeat, TWENTY-FOUR buildings in Kuala Lumpur by 1989 that were over 350 feet tall. How dumb do you have to be to know that 400 feet is too low for a long final? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nobody in that cockpit was good enough to fly actual PASSENGERS in a plane and that's why they were flying a cargo plane. A couple hundred people probably got incredibly lucky.

That has to be the clearest CVR recording I have ever heard.

@K1OIK

Жыл бұрын

CVR?

@las2665

Жыл бұрын

@@K1OIK Cockpit Voice Recorder

@K1OIK

Жыл бұрын

@@las2665 The irony here is this crash happened in part due to the overuse of abbreviations. What did he do with the time he saved not typing ockpit oice ecorder?

@robhorsey9906

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't sound like original audio, sounds like they're reading from a script. The cut-off sentences, inflections, etc. Plus the audio quality from 1989(!) tells me this was an audio re-enactment.

@reshpeck

Жыл бұрын

​@@robhorsey9906 You are exactly right

I notice most pilots do not immediately "pull up" when that ominous sound alarms... They seem to initially disregard it, often until it is way to late.

@aidancoutts2341

Жыл бұрын

You'd think they'd at least do so when they know they haven't seen a runway at any point and can't see outside at all. Of all the errors to assume, how about the one that will kill you if you ignore warnings. "Pull up" with no visibility should be an automatic reflex.

@RobertLinthicum

Жыл бұрын

full power and hard climb, immediately.

@pirate3599

9 ай бұрын

​@@RobertLinthicumfull power, 20 degrees nose up, no configuration changes

Always so impressive to watch. Thank you.

@fredblahblah.6352

Жыл бұрын

I personally find Green Dot Aviation far superior in every possible level.

“Pull up pull up” if they immediately pull up and increase thrust power they could have potentially survived.

That F/O sounded like a real piece of work. If the Captain hadn’t been so focussed on cajoling him, and keeping him calm he might have twigged that 400ft didn’t seem right.

I've never seen the GPWS ignored quite like this. Usually that "Pull up! is the last thing heard before the screaming starts.

In the early eighties, I caught a flying Tigers 747 out of Travis AFB in CA. I Flew to Alaska, then Japan, Then onto the Philippines (Clark, AFB) where I awaited onward transport at Subic Bay for 2 weeks. The 747 had an Anne Murray channel on those old acoustic headphones. I listened to it as the sun rose over the South China Sea. The song "Snowbird" reminds me of that flight to this day. Good times!

When your GPW is screaming Pull up! Pull up! best assume it's not joking.

Of course this sort of situation is unlikely to ever happen in modern times due to improved training, crew resource management and clearer instructions from ATC. That said a few things should have rung alarm bells for the crew and avoided this incident. Surely no ATC is going to clear a flight to 400ft? If I thought I was cleared that low I would want to check with ATC before inputting that low an altitude. Also who the heck would ignore a loud alarm shouting at you to pull up, not just once but multiple times?! The arguing between the crew certainly didn't help the situation either. No wonder this incident is used as an example of what not to do! Totally avoidable and 100% the crews fault.

@virginiaviola5097

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@catscanhavelittleasalami

Жыл бұрын

Right. I was thinking they should have at least confirmed it was 400ft by repeating it to ATC. It was quite a big drop and should have raised a few eyebrows.

I replied to another comment but this is definitely not the actual audio from the flight data recorder. You can tell it is being read from a script. Probably recorded for training purposes. Still crazy how many mistakes were made, thank God this wasn't a passenger jet.

Hats off to who ever made your Logo !! Really cool

It is horrifying to see at 9:50 the actual inexorably approaching terrain with the obscuring clouds digitally removed.

@PySnek

Жыл бұрын

they weren't digitale removed, the scene was rendered with different weather and time settings

@StevenBanks123

Жыл бұрын

@@PySnek “digitally removed” was just faster to say, but yes, of course.

Good video as always.❤

The graphics are brilliant worthwhile watching

I don't understand how mistakes like this are even possible...much respect to them and I hope they're resting peacefully but really wtf were they thinkin?..I love these videos man especially with the cool visuals where u actually change things according to what part of the story is being told like the altimeter down to 400... much thanx for all your hard work

The chain of bad decisions was never broken. We have come a long way from those days but it still happens once in a while.

@romansenger2322

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I still dont get why we dont use sophisticated technology, AI and modern visualisation

@pamc4217

Жыл бұрын

@@romansenger2322, because it was 1989.

Multiple Terrain warnings with zero reaction from the crew. Just shocking.

Excellent video…feel like I’m sitting on the “Cockpit Jump-seat” ..amazing. No matter what else, when you get the GPWS “PULL UP” you GO-AROUND and get away from MotherEarth as fast as possible and figure out what is “Not Right.”

I wish that I had the talent (and resources) to make videos like this! This channel and Allec Joshua Ibay are the best!!!

Nevermind the conversation you're having, if you hear "pull up", pull the god damn up!!

I don't care where you think you are...unless you are touching down on a clearly visible runway and you hear "pull up" you PULL UP AND ADD POWER!

@kingofroam1

Жыл бұрын

Back in those days the WHOOP WHOOP came on a lot. I had one go off at 35000 ft in clear skies. Do you think I climbed higher? Remember this was 1989. Training was a lot different then. So was the technology.

You're whipping up these videos like hot cakes! And quality too

I had to pause the video and just be mad for a moment when the FO said "Screw this...I haven't even got the damn plate in front of me." Like 747s are IKEA chairs and we're just gonna put them together without the pictogram instructions.

Heart breaking on many levels.

Great vid per usual.

As a Singaporean, I am not aware of this piece of history. Thank you, the awesome docu.

Thank you top-notch work