I have a friend whose father was the bombardier on Capt Egans plane. His name was Howard “Hambone” Hamilton. He was hit in the back several times by enemy fire but was able to bail out and survived POW camps to return back to the U.S after the war ended. One of the many “Greatest Generation” war heroes.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I mentioned Hambone in my previous episode about Buck and Bucky. The line from his navigator about how Hambone was full of holes and wanted to go home really gets me every time I read it. Incredible he survived. Please let your friend know that I am extremely grateful for his father’s service.

@nicholaschan8750

4 ай бұрын

Hambone getting peppered is in the latest episode

@priestsonaplane2236

4 ай бұрын

On todays episode of things that never happened

@a.lproductions4086

4 ай бұрын

​@priestsonaplane2236 it very well could have. No reason to be disrespectful

@left-hand-threaded

4 ай бұрын

That’s funny if you look at every comment every grandad or dads friend was there

I live in Münster and was also born here. There is a large and very beautiful forest cemetery just outside the city. There are many gravestones there that bear the date October 10, 1943. As mentioned in the movie, the flak in Münster was small but accurate. Later, many guns were withdrawn to Berlin. Some large air raid shelters in the city have been preserved and are now used as commercial space. One of the bunkers was recently converted into a residential complex. May all those who lost their lives that day rest in peace.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching and nice to know some of the former shelters have been preserved! I’d love to visit the city one day to explore the old town.

@tomlongbow

4 ай бұрын

Living in Coesfeld only 30 km west of Münster it was interesting to learn about and see „the other side“ of the raid.

@TheArneschwindt

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2WayfinderThe hospital I work in in Münster was founded in the 1860 ( St. Franziskus Hospital). During WWII a 3 story bunker was added to the complex. After the war there were no means to tear the massive concrete structure down. Today there are three stories of wards built on top of it including the helicopter landing platform and they built a U- shaped building around it. Being operational during the Cold War the bunker had Operation theaters and food storage. However nowadays it only contains archives and storage rooms. The blast doors are still there and when I looked for some old X-rays there last year the atmosphere inside is quite creepy… Thanks for your videos, relaxing infotainment!

I'm here after watching episode 5 of MoA... what a great video to watch afterwards to get a better understanding of how the mission went. The episode was absolutely incredible. The bravery of these men is just so hard to fathom. Truly was the greatest generation.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Episode 5 was a tough watch but really well done and I think the production team did a fantastic job of conveying the horror of that day. I hope my episode provided some of the wider context to the mission and the other events that day. Thanks again for taking the time to watch

@28th_St_Air

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. Watching the episode couldn’t help but make me resent the top command for knowingly sending these guys on suicide missions and treating them like they were expendable like the aircraft.

@BramStoked-uq4hp

4 ай бұрын

Every student should have to learn about the sacrifices of the young men who died in WW2. Maybe some will be less influenced by the victim mentality taught to students today.

Thanks, Jon, for another superb and utterly heartbreaking presentation. especially the graphic combat footage and the photographs of the documents regarding this raid. So many brave and young lives were lost in these daylight suicide raids. I will never understand how the aircrew of the USAAF and of Bomber Command had the courage to get into their bombers either day after day or night after night. For those who survived WW2, their nightmares about these raids never ceased and their psychological distress was never recognised at that time. My admiration for these men is limitless.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Sur, and I absolutely agree. The courage, and resilience those men had to do what they did each day regardless of RAF or USAAF is staggering and I don’t think we can truly comprehend it in this day and age. What they went through and witnessed could never be understood unless you were there and experienced it first hand. I’m just glad many wrote their stories after the war so we can get some insight into it.

@suepalin9202

4 ай бұрын

I've read a number of books by ex-Bomber Command veterans whose modesty about just doing their job belies their courage and determination. For anyone who calls either BC or USAAF aircrews "murderers", I'd like to put them under the open bomb bays of a Lanc or a Flying Fortress and ask them how they would have coped with 30 or 25 missions into Occupied Europe, with flak, with fighters, with collisions, etc. I think we know the answer! Looking forward to your next video. Are you doing any more "chats" with JD?@@WW2Wayfinder

@Riverrockphotos

4 ай бұрын

They just came to the concloustion they were are already dead.

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

@@Riverrockphotos On the contrary, the 'Brits' were literally fighting for their Country's existence. The Luftwaffe had been bombing Britain since 1939!

We had an uncle flying with Rodney Snow''s crew in the 95th on this raid. Our uncle had severe wounds and ended his tour with 23 missions. This video is the most accurate coverage of the Munster raid on 10/10/43 that I have seen. Thank you and well done.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow. So sorry to hear your Uncle was wounded on that mission. Thank you for taking the time to watch and I hope it helps to keep alive the memory of what your Uncle and all those other men endured that day.

Another outstanding presentation, attention to detail as always. Thank you for telling the story of these brave men, can’t wait to watch episode 5 tomorrow. Thank you again Jon for what you do, it’s greatly appreciated. 🫡

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Troy. When looking at what Rosie’s crew went through being it was effectively their first week in an operational unit is surreal and harrowing all at the same time. Im really looking forward to Episode 5 but dreading it in equal amounts knowing the fates of all those crews.

@troykauffman3963

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder I can’t fathom being a crew for a week then facing what they did, very harrowing story. That is very true regarding the fate of the crews, will definitely be a sad one to watch.

Jesus, that was great. I've read about this mission over the years, and this was the perfect refresher. The graphics on these were awesome. I appreciated light being shined on the 13th Combat Wing and highlighting that aircraft had to be borrowed between groups. Wasn't aware of that for Munster. I've sent this to my podcast co-host so he can familiarize himself with it. Keep it up Jon! -Mitchell

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Mitchell, glad you enjoyed it and hopefully it provides a bit more context around Episode 5 this weekend. It’ll be a touch watch though and I’m looking forward to it and quite nervous about it all at once!

I was based in Munster for several years, it's a lovely city. My regiment were based in York Barracks, during the war it was a Luftwaffe camp, and there was still evidence of its past in the late 90s early 2000s. Was a great place to live.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow! That must have been an amazing place to live surrounded by so much history!

@Howard759

4 ай бұрын

My father was also stationed there at the end of the war.

@wolfganggugelweith8760

4 ай бұрын

Munster or Münster/Muenster?

@nigeldenford1983

4 ай бұрын

@@wolfganggugelweith8760 Munster, near Osnabruck.

@nigeldenford1983

4 ай бұрын

@WW2Wayfinder York Barracks was built I believe around 1920 and was Luftnachrichtenkaserne 1936 (Radio Transmision Station 1936) From what I can gather it was a base manned by Luftwaffe. I'm still trying to find more history on it. Some of the buildings you could still see where the Reichsadler was above the doors, they'd been taken down years ago but you could still see the outlines on the brickwork.

I know Muenster well. I don't think it was ever a major industrial town. The city center is full of churches and historic buildings, which thankfully have been lovingly restored.

Amazing video! Thank you for this. I'm glad my father missed the Bremen and Munster raids . He wrote about them in his diary and mourned his lost buddies.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow! May I ask which BG he flew with?

Thank you for all the great detail you provide. There are so many stories within the headlines that you bring out.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! Mission 114 is one of those really tough missions that had so much happen but with the second Schweinfurt raid being 4 days later, it gets a lot more coverage. I hope this helps to provide some wider context to the horrific events and act as a tribute to the men who flew that day.

Hi Jon Fantastic piece of work mate, Great research, editing and stock footage. A very dark day for the 100th bomb group! Cheers from Australia 🇦🇺 ❤😊

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

My father was with 16 years at the Flak to defend Münster. He told me that they (Flak) shot down 36 bombers, which was - even in this bad Szenario - a great success for them.He showed me in the West of Münster the area where the 8.8 canons were positioned. After the war he studied mining technology and took a practise in an English coal mine, that should have been in the early 50s. He told me that the workers and people there were fair and he had - surprisingly for him - a good collaboration. So, things can change…

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you for sharing that!

@roxannlegg750

4 ай бұрын

Thats lovely! Tragic day that i really wonder was necessary. Too many unecessary losses on both sides. I know war is war, but some missions DO need to be questioned....

@Melior_Traiano

3 ай бұрын

My grandfather served in the German Army during WWII as a 17 year old radio operator in an infantry platoon. He was in Münster before it was bombed and he was there immediately after it was bombed. After the bombing his unit was assigned the task to prevent the civilians from looting. He said you could see from one end of the city to the other, because every building had been flattened. He didn't speak of anything else he saw there, but I know that he must have seen some rough things. He was later wounded by Sherman tank shrapnel to the leg while fighting in the Münster area (Ostbevern) and taken prisoner by what he believed to be Canadians.

Episode 5 was a very tough episode to watch. 😞 Those brave and courageous young men did what nobody today could fathom doing... Those Bomber Boys went through complete hell during these missions..They faced unbelievable high concentration of flak and then to have the nazi fighter planes repeatedly attacking the Bombers after they endured the horrible flak taking out numerous Bombers.. Top it off with the nazi fighter pilots using their newest air weapon the rockets which they shot directly into the Bombers Combat Boxes which caused chaos and completely decimated the Bombers it blew up near... Those young men are FOREVER known as The Greatest Generation To Have Ever Walked The Earth!! 💙🙏🇺🇸❤ God Bless them all for what they did and what they endured over the skies of Europe during WW2 in the European Theater.... Great video! Very informative and I actually learned a few new things!! Please continue to make these videos because these young men deserve to be recognized for their sacrifices and for their courage during the horrors of War....❤❤❤

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you and glad you enjoyed it. I agree episode 5 of Masters was a really tough watch but I thought the producers did a great job conveying the horror of it all.

@DannyBoy777777

2 ай бұрын

The greatest generation? Do you understand what happened in the US at that time ? Secondly; Werfer-Granate 21 rockets were not particularly effective. Thirdly; terrible FLAK? Is there any other kind ?

Another exceptional video Jon. Great detail on the squadron designations and flight plan, gives me a better insight on the series. Thanks.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@palaver40

4 ай бұрын

Yes. Just an outstanding coverage of those many brave souls. You do remarkable work.

A beautifully put together video. I found it easy to follow, very well illustrated, sweetly detailed and well narrated. My Highest Compliments to you.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

Jon, I have just watched episode 5 of Mota and noticed that you had just uploaded this video, which was well put together and narrated.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Steve! I thought Episode 5 was really gripping when I watched it yesterday.

Came here after watching the latest MOTA episode, subbed about 2 minutes in before watching the rest. Really really high quality vid man. Dont know how the algorithm hadn’t sent me to you before now

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Welcome to the channel! Glad you found it and I’ve done one other video about the 100th BG and have another one on the way and have plans to do more as well as all the other stuff on here!

A superb presentation that was exceptionally clear, detailed and easy to follow. Such a loss of brave men was truly tragic. Thank you for this, and for what you do. Have you done a video on the Marienburg raid?

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you Colin. I haven’t covered Marienberg yet but I may look to do a series on Black Week looking at those air battles from the 8th - 14th October ‘43 given how instrumental they were in altering the coarse of VIII Bomber Command for the rest of the war. Thanks again for taking the time to watch!

@ColinH1973

4 ай бұрын

​@@WW2WayfinderThat would be a most interesting project indeed. Fingers crossed, and thanks again.

Huge fan of “Masters of the Air”….and wow what a fantastic companion video you have put together! Can’t wait for the next episode. Very impressed by the attention to detail presented here. Great job and keep up the excellent work!!🤘🏻🤘🏻

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! I can’t wait to see where the rest of the series goes and I’ll have another episode or two to accompany the show, again looking at areas the 100th were that are not well known. Thanks again for watching!

great vlog with personal detils, subscribed. My uncle was a B-24 gunner who completed his tour. Came back to States & assigned to B-29s. Mastered the remote control gun system & made an instructor

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! Do you know which BG he flew with when he was on B-24’s?

I would highly recommend "Wrong Place, Wrong Time" by George C Kuhl - who was a pilot in the 305th - it's an in-depth account of their raid on Schweinfurt on October 14th 1943. I must have read this at least half-a-dozen times!

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for that I’ll try and find a copy this afternoon!

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder You're welcome, see if you can get any information on 'Lazy Baby', which crash-landed in Switzerland, four miles from the German border. The navigator, Donald T Rowley, had already been severely injured but managed to guide them to safety before sadly succumbing to his wounds. German border guards saw the crash and watched his subsequent burial - the Germans also fired a salute as he was laid to rest.

@OrbitFallenAngel

4 ай бұрын

I'll have to check out that book. Because I love reading anything about WW2 and the European Theater... And I'll especially read it if it's about the Bomber Boys who flew the B-17s...Because they have some of the most intense and dangerous jobs flying their Bombers deep into Germany... Thank you for suggesting it!! ❤

The amount of work you must have to put into these videos is fantastic. I embarrass myself with my own laziness compared with you. Thanks Jon. I'd love you to do a history of Spanhoe, I know it's a small base but it must have had some significance to D Day and the 82nd Airborne Division. It's my local airbase cos I live in Rutland.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I know Spanhoe well! I grew up in that area so it’s all quite familiar and I’m glad I did as it’s a stunning part of England! I’ve got plans for more Air Force stuff later this year!

So many Bomber bases near me, Grafton Underwood for example. Also very local airbases near me where the 82nd paras took off for DDay, namely Spanoe, going to the 'O' dropzone in Normandy

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Grafton Underwood is a beautiful base to visit and the work the team are doing to get the old Operations Block renovated is very pleasing to see!

@terrym3837

21 күн бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder There are some good bases to visit and you can do more then one a day as they were no more then eight miles from each other

Excellent work, the images and video match well with the narration. An informative prelude to tonight's Part 5. Thank you.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you David, glad you enjoyed it and hopefully it helps provide some context to Episode 5 as I know they can only show so much each episode. What really gets me is it was only Rosie’s third mission of the war in as many days!

@soppdrake

4 ай бұрын

​@@WW2WayfinderThe episode seems to have covered just about everything. It was brutal, totally gut-wrenching

Another excellent video, you're research and attention to detail are top notch. Thanks and I look forward to more from you regarding the MOTA series.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! I've got another MOTA episode that's ready to go but wont be out for about 3 weeks I think to coincide with the series, and it's an aspect that hasn't been covered before!

Great video with a ton of information. Thanks for all your hard work on the videos.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! I need to find the time now to cover the rest of the missions in Black Week as it was the key week for VIII Bomber Command, especially with Schweinfurt II 4 days after Munster!

Fabulously presented! Thank you!

@WW2Wayfinder

3 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!

What a great video, very interesting and educational. My neighbors father was in a B-17 in the Eight Air force but that is all he knew as his father wouldn't talk about the war. He didn't know his position rank or anything. Kind of sad but if he didn't want to talk about it then he didn't have to and I can respect that.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! That is a shame he wasn’t able to get more information from His father but I can understand why given the brutality of the air war.

@georgeallen4495

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Yes it is but that is all he knew. I don't even think there was anything his father kept from his service? He never mentioned anything and I just let it go at that as it was really none of my business to ask.

Another excellent video, Jon. Keep them coming.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! When I have time I plan to cover the other missions that took place during Black Week in October 1943 as it was such a crucial time for the 8th AAF

Thanks for this video - brilliant and brutal history lesson. Such respect for these guys.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

You’re most welcome! Hopefully it provides some of the wider context to the Masters of the Air episode that came out this week.

Thanks for the excellent recap. It was difficult to watch this episode in Masters of the Air. Imagine if they were told on Friday's brief that in the next 3 days, only 1 out of 20 of them would return, that would be wild!

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! And I agree, episode 5 was a very difficult one to watch, but brilliantly done by the production team at the same time.

Really enjoyed this presentation ( although horrified at the American losses, man 88 bombers in 3 days!) Excellent combat footage, especially of the American crew members. Very knowledgeable narration.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it and yes, it was a horrific week for the 8th. And this was all before they went back to Schweinfurt 4 days later!

Rosenthal went on to be a prosecutor at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials aftrr the war. He flew 52 combat missions.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

That’s correct! He was an incredible man! Also shot down and bailed out twice and made it back to friendly lines twice!!!!!

Very well done, and excellent photos. One of my relatives had flown to Munster. Thanks for the added information.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it! Do you know which BG your relative served with?

@BB63

4 ай бұрын

@WW2Wayfinder Yes, the information I have found for our family history is. Lt. Willard "Bill" Secor Copilot 418th Bomb Squadron Mission - October 10th, 1943 Munster, Germany. The pilot was 2nd Lt. Richard B Atchison Jr. Aircraft was a B17F bomber named Sweater Girl. I also have a list of the crew for that mission. If you have the ability to find any more information about him and the mission, I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks for your time.

As part of a mission against railways and waterways around Münster, the VIII Bomber Command Mission 114, consisting of 274 B-17s, focused on targets of opportunity around Coesfeld and Twente Air Base, which, however, was defended, meaning that not only the airport, but also the city of Enschede was hit hard. This resulted in 151 deaths, 104 seriously injured and heavy damage in the city.

I took the opportunity a few years ago while passing near Diss in Norfolk to visit tne Hundredth bomb group memorial airfield. What i chiefly remember and wnat stayed with me was the seemingly endless list of lost aircraft and airmen.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

It's a wonderful museum isn't it and the volunteers there and a great bunch.

Currently watching Masters of the Air Season 1. Flack was lethal n constant Fw 190 Me 109 ME 110 fighter attacks relentless n scary. Previously loved Memphis Belle of Matthew Modine n 12 O clock High Starring Gregory Peck. Also loved 12 O clock High 60s tv series. Really liking Masters of the Air at the same time mourning all those valiant B-17 crews of 8th Air Force who were lost in Bremen n Munster raids 390th n 100th bomb group. War is he'll. Hello from India 🇮🇳

@WW2Wayfinder

3 ай бұрын

Glad you're enjoying Masters of the Air! 12 OOClock High is also another favourite of mine! The War Lover is another great film too if you can find a copy!

@samnigam3451

3 ай бұрын

@WW2Wayfinder Yup seen The War Lover of Steve Mc Queen n Robert Wagner. Character played b steve was that of a over ambitious arrogant n over confident B17 pilot. Guess that happens in most conflicts. Something like Bule Max's character played by George Peppard.

Very brave young men the fear they must have felt up there freezing in a tin can being shot at,unreal.....

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

It’s hard to comprehend isn’t it. Even when it’s depicted as well as it’s been shown on Masters, it still makes me shudder to think what those young men endured on a daily basis.

@terrym3837

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2WayfinderI find how on earth did they find a reason to climb aboard the death trap again and again

My Grandpa was a Navigator on "The Devil's Daughter" for the 390th. He was shot down, bailed and taken prisoner on that day. He lived to be 83.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow! Do you know which POW camp he ended up at?

@charles9571

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Stalag Luft III

Another great content, thank you

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

You’re most welcome, thank you for watching!

Thanks for another informative video.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

My pleasure, thank you for watching!

According to Luftwaffe pilots the 100th was identified as shooting pilots in their chutes So they were given special treatment. I believe the pilot was Heinze Knocke.

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

I've read his book "I Flew For The Fuhrer". He was one of the most successful fighter pilots of all time and was awarded a Knight's Cross. If I remember correctly he wasn't a Nazi either.

Am impressed how accurate the TV episode was given this factual video

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

The team on Masters did a great job I thought in conveying the horror of the mission and yet making it a gripping episode. Not easy to do but I think they did it really well! Thank you for taking the time to watch!

Thank you.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

You’re most welcome!

Awesome work Jon, I know your to do list gets longer from your videos, but I would be interested if you can do a short or reel on the caterpillar club, haven't heard of it before? Your work is great but unfortunately opens up a can of worms to ask🤣. Keep up the great work Jon👍

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Haha, that’s the great thing about WW2, always a rabbit hole to explore! I could certainly add it to the list!

Excellent video! Do you have much detail about the hugely destructive raid only two days before (October 8/9 1943) on Hannover? This was night time, so RAF. I don’t know if there was any daytime follow-up raid., Thanks

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! On the 8th and 9th October the 8th had hit Bremen then Marienburg so very much the focus for VIII BC during that time. Regarding Hanover I don't have any specific information to hand but I will be covering more Bomber Command missions in the future.

Excellent as always..👍👍

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Great video! Do you happen to have any information which single engine Jagdgeschwadern took part in this battle? The ~200 aircraft would have been mentioned in German sources, but I only know of such large formations from Battle of Berlin timeframe, not October 1943 :/ Thanks in advance!

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

From what I’ve found so far it was Gruppe I and II from JG 1 and JG 3 but it might take me a bit longer for a more thorough answer

Excellent video, great work.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Thank you for this really great documentary ! Where do you find aerial photos ? I know about the NCAP but do you use other archives ?

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

You’re welcome! NARA is a great resource, although takes a while to get used to but a great source of original information

@clementaut7287

4 ай бұрын

Thank !@@WW2Wayfinder

Very nice research and presentation.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Drove through Munster, back in reforger in 1987 Had I’d known the significance, I’d look for the cathedral.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I’ve heard of that Exercise! There’s now a computer game named after it!

@richardmardis2492

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Yeah, in Holland, there was a depot (probably many other depots) with all new equipment for my First Calvary Division (and many other divisions) To fly over in jump into the new tanks and take on the Russians. The one in 87 was the largest of its type, and only second only to D-day for the number of men involved.

I wonder why the TV show claimed that the target was to be the railway junction and that the cathedral just happened to be nearby, whereas in reality the aiming point was the cathedral.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Good question. Possibly because the producers were conscious how that would be received by the audience, especially after the emphasis on precision daylight bombing which was the mantra in 1943 prior to the advent of H2X in American service. However that’s just my assumption and nothing more.

@benjaminsealey6811

4 ай бұрын

That's what I assumed too, but I have to admit that it makes me a little uneasy that they are portraying what the producers want you to think happened rather than giving the facts as they were and allowing the audience to draw their own conclusions on the moral dilemmas behind the air campaign.@@WW2Wayfinder

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Sadly they did so with Band of Brothers and I’d imagine to an extent The Pacific too. I think some comes down to the ‘artist’ side of writers as they feel a certain scene would look better if done in a different way etc and others due to constraints in being able to portray scenes. For example, Captain Crosby was on leave in Bournemouth on the 10th October and not at Thorpe Abbotts. He too phoned back to TA using a code but as Episode 4 showed Egan doing this I imagine they didn’t want a repeat of a similar scene but it’s a shame as the call Crosby made and the dialogue is harrowing.

Very impressive video - thank you. Have earned a sub.. ;)

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you! And welcome to the channel 😃

Any on British raf bomber crews . I met a macanic once in Hackney London I watched a plane a decorated fly over wile in the garage and said so oh you know what it is yes I said I love old planes oh I flew lancs we talked he was 18 flight Sargent pilot. In 1944 married with kid . He spoke about flights where everywhere he looked planes were blowing up going down I think he said Berlin but it was Germany he said the flack and night fighters were intense out of his hole squadron on Lancasters three came back on another he told me flack was so bad he remembers shrapnelpasing his left arm go over the flight engineer head as he was selecting some thing and out the right lucky , one piece of shrapnel landed on his arm burning a hole in his sheepskin jacket pieces landing spent on the floor . On one trip he remembered again plains going down he said you could feel the fear of death in the plane he knew this was it tonight we die some one said on intercom this is it , he asked the rest of the crew there thought and all came back tonight is the night they were over enamel terretory so he gave the order to drop bombs he said it was like air coming out of a Bolton like pressure disserpering in the plane as everyone knew they’d live . They were the only ones who made it back no one had reached the target . There was so much more I can’t remember last thing was the war was over his crew survived 75 missions he was ordered to fly a junkers ju52 and refused as it’s condition and he had a felling his commanding officer took the plane and said when I come back your on a charge the plane took of the pilot told me he knew it won’t make it up and was wright as it claimed it just dropped like a stone turned over and went in . He said I told him it was a death trap and ther he lyes . This was in 1984 will never forget him that’s why I’ve put it here to last don’t know his name

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I have a plan for a series of episodes about RAF Bomber Command planned for later this year and into next, and some that will be quite different! It’s just a matter of time to fit it all in!

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Make sure you mention 101Squadron! I find the development of new technology by both sides during the air war fascinating. Schrage Musik at the 'blunt end' to radar and the sophisticated electronic countermeasures and navigation equipment that followed. I will always remember reading de-briefs from bomber crews describing aircraft exploding next to them when there was no flak or (seemingly) no fighters around. We were very lucky when the radar-equipped Ju88 fell into our lap! I can also recommend a book by Heinz Knoke - 'I Flew For The Fuhrer'. It's a good read!

Fyi Jon - this video and your last video never showed up in my subscription feed, tho I have been subbed for over a year. I only saw it in my recc feed. Just wanted you to know in case views/ engagement were down.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh thanks for that! KZread is a funny thing sometimes. If the bell icon is tapped it’ll show up the option to be notified every time I release something so might be worth doing if you haven’t as that should prevent KZread from not pushing my content forward to you.

I just received my book Masters of the Air yesterday. I'm sitting my old ass down today to get into it. Jon you did it again! Can you suggest a informative book on the British Air Force. I would like to learn more about the British bomber crew's. Again thank you for the history lesson. Looking forward for the next one. Stay safe Jon.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Donald Millers book is superb so glad you’ve got a copy Mike! Some harrowing chapters in it though I’ll warn you and one especially regarding those men interned in Switzerland of all places. For the RAF, I’ll have a look when I’m at home and send them via here as I’ve got several which I think you’ll enjoy 😃

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Mike, I’m no particular order I’d recommend: Lancaster by Leo Mckinstry The Hardest Victory by Denis Richard’s The Red Line by John Nichol The Berlin Raids by Martin Middlebrook There and Back Again - A Navigators Story by James Douglas Hudson Lancaster Over Berlin by Walter Thompson

@mikehall5815

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Jon thank you for the information. Here in the States you mostly hear about the 8th air force and I understand that. And as you know being British the RAF had been battling this air of War for much longer. It's important that my kids have all the facts. You may have already done this and I haven't found it in any of your videos yet but are you ever going to do a tour of a lancaster? That is such an awesome bird! Thank you for getting back to me. And thank you for everything you do for history

@Trylk1138

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinderbeen trying to find any info on my Grandfather who was a wireless operator in Halifax’s and Wellington’s any mention of those in that list of books to look into??

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder One of those authors, John Nicol was a Navigator on Tornados in the Gulf War and his aircraft was shot down. He's had a good career in the media since then and has featured in many documentaries in the UK. I've read three of your recommendations and have met Douglas Hudson, who was selling copies of his book at Duxford Airshow one year. I still have it.

It bugs me that the first FOUR episodes of the show never mention the fighter escort the bombers received up to the German border, then in the 5th episode, the escorts are barely acknowledged. These guys risked their lives too.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I understand your point as my personal interest is in VIII Fighter command but it is specifically about the 100th and the air war is such a broad topic I think they've had to be really strict in what they can and cannot show on screen.

As a German, I have no problem respecting these men's courage and sacrifice. What I find much harder is ignoring that my mother, 10 years old at the time, was sitting in a cellar down below, scared.

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that, but there were also thousands of scared civilians who'd been sheltering in Tube Stations and cellars since 1940 when Adolph and Hermann decided that they were legitimate targets.

@ralfklonowski3740

4 ай бұрын

@@gibson617ajg I know perfectly well that we as a nation brought this on ourselves by poor bloodymindedness without need. I do not complain and would normally disconnect the two sides of the matter for that exact reason. It is just that little bit harder in this case.

@CH-lc3yf

3 ай бұрын

@@gibson617ajgOne war crime does not justify another.

@gibson617ajg

3 ай бұрын

@@CH-lc3yf The Luftwaffe had already proved how ruthless they were by bombing Guernica and Warsaw - these could be considered 'war crimes' as neither had any 'military' targets - it's pointless crying about the Allies retaliating. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

@CH-lc3yf

3 ай бұрын

@@gibson617ajg .... and nobody is disputing that. So you can go to m* previous post. If you think the atrocities of the other side give you permission to do the same, you lowered yourself onto their level and, of course, in doing so, lose all right to complain or accuse them.

This was late 1943. It is a sobering thought that the RAF had been doing this since September 1939.. It is also worth remembering that the strongest German units were being sent to the Eastern Front.

Strange to think how it was during WW2. I worked in Munster for some time living in the city centre area. Also NURNBERG. TRIER. Baden Wurtenburg. Regensburg. They were still finding unexploded bombs in those parts of Germany. Grim finds from a brutal past.

Lovely city, i lived there and saw photos of how bad it had been bombed. Rebuilt older part of city is worth visiting.

This series is truly amazing and I’m really enjoying it- I’m probably going to get into lots of trouble for saying this….. something is missing. I’m not sure what it is and as I said it is extraordinarily good but I’m not feeling as immersed in it as I thought I would be. I’ve watched every episode so far three or four times. Anyone else feel this way or is it just that I’m a silly old fart…

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I think it has a very unique feel to it, completely on it's own from anything else we've seen like BoB or The Pacific and those are tough competition. I've spent a lot of time recently listening to the soundtrack and now and it's really brought me into the series.

Fabulous video and yup - just watched Masters of the Air. But, Im sorry, there is nothing that convince me that aiming for the Cathedral on a Sunday at noon, esp when the rail yards were the ideal military target, was a moral choice. That is not tactically sound or justified. You dont repay an evil regime by punishing worshiping civilians. That decision was vengence, and those pilots knew it. Thankyou for the very helpful video.

War means Terror on both sides.

After Munster, the 8th went after Schweinfurt, the last of four missions of “Black Week.” After this, the Bomber Mafia had to rethink everything. Losses were unsustainable. They ceased deep penetration missions and went after targets in France, where escorts could provide cover to the target and back, until 1944.

Nice work

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

The Treaty of Westfalia, that ended the 30 years war, was signed in Munster. It wa 1648 if memory serves.

Maybe your most sobering video yet. My wife had a relative who was a radio man in a B17 and flew out of a base at Kimbolton. He got shot down and was a in a POW camp for the duration somewhere near the North Sea I think he told me. Sounded like a very bad experience. It stuck with me him saying he would never buy a German car. Guess I can't blame him.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow! I know Kimbolton well and have a photo album from a pilot who flew with the 379th BG from there.

According to the City Museum in Münster (Stadtmuseum Münster), the number of persons killed during this raid was 437 German civilians and around 200 German soldiers. The number of foreigners killed is not documented. In all bombing raids on Münster up to 1945, a total of 1600 Germans were killed. The word Münster in German translates as "cathedral". Targeting the cathedral in a city named cathedral is a unique event. Today, Münster is also famous as the location of the German tank museum (Deutsches Panzermuseum Münster). During the Cold War, the German 1st Army Corps had its HQ here. It is still an important garrison in 2024.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you, I wasn’t aware of the translation! I would love to visit the Deutsches Panzermuseum on day as I’ve heard excellent things about it, and it would also be really interesting to visit the Cathedral and see the old town there. Thank you for taking the time to watch.

Question: Many American bomber airmen died early in the war largely because no fighters could escort them deep into Germany. So why weren't drop tanks fitted to existing fighters so they could do long range escorts?

@WW2Wayfinder

3 ай бұрын

Sadly no thought had been given to escort fighters as the theories dreamt up in the 20’s and 30’s was all about the bomber and ‘the bomber will always get through’ plus the false sense of security of the B-17 and its guns didn’t help this flawed thinking. P-47’s which were the main stay of the 8th AAF during those difficult first months was only capable of carrying ferry tanks as additional fuel and they weren’t suited to combat. When the USAAF realised longer range fighters were needed then drop tanks were designed and fitted to Thunderbolts with the modifications needed but the range still wasn’t enough. The Mustang solution had been starring the likes of Arnold and Eaker in the face but it wasn’t until the 2nd Schweinfurt raid on the 14th October 1943 that it’s requirement as an escort fighter was really ramped up!

Talking about Australia and spiders, I remember when I was in Perth staying at a backpackers and I was in the shower, when I noticed webs and then saw a Red Back (Black Widow) spider close to me. I then departed the shower, rather rapidly and informed the owners, oh after getting dressed of course lol

It begs the question why the USAAF didn't decide to change to night bombardment along with the RAF.

@gibson617ajg

4 ай бұрын

The Americans thought that flying in tight formation was their best form of defence - it was of course but that's not something you'd try at night! One of the worst experiences for the Lancaster, Halifax and Stirling crews was being buffeted by the wake of an unseen aircraft in the darkness. I read a harrowing account of a Lancaster crewman being startled upon seeing another aircraft so close he could see the squadron code quite clearly. He knew which crew it was - they were from the same airfield. His pilot took evasive action to avoid a possible collision and seconds later cannon shells ripped through the wing of their 'neighbour', setting it on fire. It flew on - losing altitude as the wing fire spread and then exploded. Small margins between life and death.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

They had sold the doctrine of VIII Bomber Command on day time, precision bombing so a switch to area bombing at night wouldn't have gone down well with the politicians and public back home, plus the B-17 carried a small bomb load for a heavy bomber but that was deemed ok due to the attacks being conducted in daylight coupled with the accuracy of the Norden Sight. However with the advent of H2X, the 8th AAF switched effectively to area bombing during the day as they would often bomb through cloud so in the end, the statement about precision daylight bombing, while sounds appealing was by and large wishful thinking.

"Precision strikes" there was no such thing from high altitude in massed formations. Bomber Command had good bomb sights for the time, and they still chose area bombing.

So Jon can your u tell me more about the Warbird coffee company Chanel

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

It’s my other channel and one of the social media channels for my business ‘The Warbird Coffee Company’. We’re partnered with lots of UK based warbird owners and museums to help them restore or maintain their aircraft. If you search for Warbird Coffee on Google it’ll come up as the first result!

Fine work: 👏

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I predict military historians of the future will render a different analysis of the Air War over Europe in WW2. By autumn 1943 it was clear the heavy four-engine bomber was obsolete, whether American or British. The Germans produced extremely effective, heavily armed day and night interceptors that were blowing the bombers out of the sky. Why didn't the superior interceptors end the Allied bombing once and for all is because: 1) The creation of effective Allied escort fighters such as the P-51 Mustang due to its long range and exceptional design. But remember, early British and American strategic bomber doctrine did not rely on escort fighters. It was thought that fleets of heavy strategic bombers would always get through in great numbers to their targets. 2) The Americans were able to mass produce thousands of interceptors and train thousands of competent pilots. 3) The Germans were not able to produce their effective day and night interceptors in the numbers needed. 4) The Germans were running out of trained and experienced pilots and could not replace them. 5) The Germans were running short on fuel which was needed to train new pilots and to fuel the necessary fleets of interceptors. So in a different or alternate history, where Germany could have produced thousands of interceptors with the pilots to man the aircraft and the ample fuel for training and missions, then the Allied bombing offensive could have been beaten back. On the several rare occasions where the Luftwaffe was able to get four hundred interceptors into the air against American daylight bomber armadas which had only partial fighter escort - not all the way to the target; the interceptors inflicted unacceptable losses to the Americans. The Americans in fact had to stop their bomber offensive for three weeks in the autumn of 1943 to regroup and replace losses.

Precision strikes, how is that accomplished with gravity bombs?

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

It was deemed to be precision for the 1940’s thanks to the Norden sight. Not precision as we would understand today utilising PWIV and a Lightning 5 pod

It had to take a lotta balls to go up there in a flying bus holdin' a bunch a bombs knowing they were lookin' for ya.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

100% agree. How they did it day after day I will never know!

A M A Z I N G !

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Really great work. Shame they didn't have you on board for the TV series - it is truly awful!

I watched a veteran from this raid on youtube a long time ago and he said the church was a main target because supposedly "high ranking" Nazi officials were known to attend the church and he was very clear how uncomfortable they were about this.

I live close to Muenster

@berzerker1100

4 ай бұрын

Münster Brau 🍺🍻 Yawohl

You have a email? Where i can send you a mail. For a question?👍

I know Munster well, and I do not think it is a major industrial or military target. Why was it being bombed?

The Bloody 100th received special attention from the German Airforce because of an incident that happened early in their deployment. A B-17 with the 100ths markings had been badly shot up on a mission and had dropped its landing gear and flaps. This is a signal of surrender for aircraft in a combat zone. Two BF-109 took position on the wing tips of the B-17 with the intention of escorting the B-17 to a safe landing field. After a few minutes the gunners on the B-17 shot down both BF-109s. Other German fighters then shot the B-17 down. After that incident whenever German fighters identified aircraft with the 100ths marking special attention was given to shoot them down.

@sped17373

4 ай бұрын

Really? And what actual evidence or proof do you possess that this incident ever happened? After the war a number of Luftwaffe fighter pilots said in interviews that aerial combat is so fast and furious that there's no possible way to specifically identify and target one bomb group alone. Plus I have yet to read a single account by any Luftwaffe fighter pilot describing any such encounter with a "surrendering bomber" from the Bloody 100th. Think about head-on attacks--the Luftwaffe's preferred interception technique in 1943--closing speeds of both bomber and fighter are such that Luftwaffe fighter pilots had only a brief couple of seconds just to aim and fire their guns--there is no time whatsoever to look for any special marking(s) of what bomber group they're attacking...all while flying through the collective defensive fire of this and the rest of the B-17's. There's just no time for an i.d.

@stingginner1012

4 ай бұрын

The incident was described by retired Colonel Raymond E. Brim in his book Pathfinder Pioneer. @@sped17373

@unclestuka8543

4 ай бұрын

Why did the German fighters go for the 100th ? There is documentary evidence that on one mission all the GAF fighters shot down every B17 from the 100th , no other groups were touched. (this was sending a message, don't fuck about)

LJ!!!!!!! // as always.

Grampa Roy was always careful to separate his Time Bombing Germans as After the "Big Battles", there or not at this Moment, He wanted No Credit for his Service Bombing Germans after these days or their Lose of Crews! I Know he was in the last few years of the WAR! not his Dates or posting locations. Think he was an OG EWO? with my older OJT ant Trades knowledge putting his bits N pieces together. Dude had a Car Phone before Cannon! the first! on TV! "I already" saw and knew that.

The Germans didn't destroy that mission. The American commander did.

@ChienaAvtzon

3 ай бұрын

This is actually true. Robert Rosenthal, who was Jewish and hated the Germans, blamed the 100th’s inept leadership and lack of discipline. It was his skill as a pilot that got his crew back to England.

Excellent video, very interesting and enjoyable, thank you, 👍.

I was born in munster in 1966

Beans deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

What is brutal to think about is that the second Schweinfuhrt raid was 4 days later. It was called Black Thursday because of how many aircraft and crews died and got destroyed that day. Would be good if the show would show a little bit about the escort fighters doing their jobs as well. This episode made me feel sad it really kicked in at the end the sacrifice. Hitler was a dick to have ever started all this rubbish.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I’ve got plans to cover more about VIII Fighter Command in the next few months as well as expand the series on Black Week given it’s importance in how the USAAF prosecuted their war after October 1943.

@alexsp7086

4 ай бұрын

@@WW2Wayfinder Turns out episode 5 was about Munster. Which was also a crazy lose for the 100th.

Decimated isn’t too bad. That means a loss of 1 in 10, which means 90% got through and returned.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

That’s the historical context of the word relating back to Roman times. The modern meaning states ‘kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of’ So in the sense of the Münster raid they were decimated.

Then they went to Schweinfurt…🫡

the irony of 1940s America complaining about race hate, but they practised colour segregation - hence the tuskegi men (excuse spelling if wrong)

@WW2Wayfinder

3 ай бұрын

Absolutely.

Interesting how in the show the target was the railyards that happened to inconveniently be right next to the church. Funny how propaganda about something that happened over 80 years ago is still prevalent

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I agree, although I think the way the series addressed it still worked and showed the conflict that the crews likely felt that day and not just at the 100th BG. It’s certainly a difficult topic to address especially in an hour long drama.

No offense to you or your effort, but I have no great sympathy for the crews. In their own way, they are exactly what Germans are always accused of being: mass murderers. Who are the good guys now? It's not the standards that piss me off, it's the double standards.

@WW2Wayfinder

4 ай бұрын

I understand your point of view. It is a difficult topic but I do understand there is no definitive answer an it certainly isn't one sided.

4:47 Also describes the attributes of white America at the time. What made NAZI racism and the racism my family suffered at this time in America different?