This video is a follow-up and more extensive view on my previous video on the Black Legend, found here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m311rLOkeLuWg6Q.html&t After I made the previous video however, I was made aware of a couple of important facts that made me compelled to do a more thorough and proper video on such a complicated and sensitive topic. I hope this video makes up for previously omitted information. And I hope my attempt at a new format is tolerable!

@zorrozorro9681

Жыл бұрын

one of the things that this video lacks is why Portugal and Brasil did not suffer such fate ?? may be because Portugal was England biggest ally in Europe ?? were the Portuguese any better to Indigenas and to slaves ?? Hate propaganda targeting a successful way of doing things differently ??!! why Portugal has never received such HATE propaganda ?? servitude to the English monarchs ?? sometimes comparing same actions that happened at the same time and had received different judgement, can enlighten the purpose of the judgment and the true face of the judges !!

@oscarmeneurubio3330

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this important video

@vivaelespanolylahispanidad4072

Жыл бұрын

Imagine we in the Spanish world dedicate every bit of our cultural interactions with you was to create a French Black legend... imagine... how would you feel today if me with my accent started telling your people and neighbours what your own history is? how would you feel? Would the government try to send the Foreign legion to correct this? The true black legend belongs to the English and I would just open the eyes and mind a little bigger and you will see it is all there.

@joseantoniocastro1486

11 ай бұрын

Somehow the Black Legend still is very present in your video, despite yours efforts in telling some kind of truth, I mean telling the truth has become "white legend", and here we go again, the truth has suddently become a legend itseft and an intent to disproved the real legend the black one. Also you insist throughout the whole video that Spain was a colonial power, just like the other europeans nations, and this is not true. Spain was an empire, like the Roman Empire was, never was a colonial empire just because Spain never had colonies, Spain had Virreinatos which are territories just like the ones in the Iberian Peninsula, not mere extractive colonies as the dutch, portuguese or british had. Spain also from the very beginning and for this very reason that oversees territories were spanish soil build hospitals, universities, cities, colleges, roads, ports, and developt those new territories and integrated them into tthe spanish mindset jus in the same way Rome did centuries before. So far, I aprreciate so much your video, and encourage you to further investigate into the Spanish Black Legend, because is a topic in which you can find for sure a lot of similarities with the present world . Greetings from a spanish history teacher, and thank you so much for your video.

@diegolondrina7510

8 ай бұрын

@@joseantoniocastro1486Gracias. What's the *systemic* difference between the roman and the english, french or dutch empires, however far apart in history? What is the difference between the soviet empire (whatever your ideological differences) and the portuguese or belgian colonies? We can all collect examples of plunder and rapacity from *any* of these projects. At this scale, they are indistinguishable from each other just as the molecular interactions or neural communications are between a pidgeon and a lizzard; does that mean that mean that we should confuse a pidgeon with a lizzard? No, they are completely different creatures. what we are missing is the systemic view of each of these projects. I oppose the pink/white legend just as much as the black legend, but people should start recognizing, just as they don't feel any remorse in feeling awe towards the Roman or Macedonian empires, that there is such a thing as a "Generator Empire" and a "Predator Empire"; or "Constructive Empire" vs. "Extracting Empire".

Spain didn’t have colonies. Vicerroyalties didn’t have the status of colony. Colony was a modus opeeandi made mostly by the british, french, belgians and dutch.

@matecocido2744

7 ай бұрын

eso es verdad, aunque luego de la guerra de sucesión en 1714 cuando la nueva familia real de origen frances se hiciera con el trono, hubo un cambio de filosofia y se comenzo a tratar a los virreynatos como colonias de forma no oficial

@lauramartin-bk9nr

29 күн бұрын

And Portuguese in Africa and Brazil and Germans in Namibia.

@lucario2188

29 күн бұрын

Yes the Viceroyalties only started being treated has colonies when the Bourbouns took over.

The evidence that the anti-Spanish Black Legend is absolutelly real is that no one talks about the Portuguese Black Legend, even when you think they were the main importers on a large scale of African slaves. That difference is explained because Portugal was always an ally of England, so you will not find books with engravings of those atrocities.

@hiphipjorge5755

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. It's hilarious how little people know

@vivaelespanolylahispanidad4072

Жыл бұрын

The English black legend is real, but not known, yet the "Spanish" black legend is just propa. How does England fight for the unity of it's language but fights to break everyone else's? Sort of give you a clue? Go to Hispanoamerica and what do you see? Natives, in government, with the ability to revisit everything they want... what do you see in Canada and U.S and Austria, India, South Africa, all regions controlled by it and enjoy all the natives in zoos called reservations... to this day... to this day... to this day... doing government designed pow wows... who invented camps that intern people of other cultures while the British enjoy their government, best lands and genetic power? Not even mixing.

@diogobarata6346

Жыл бұрын

The portuguese were not the main importers of african slaves. The africans were. The arabs also imported more slaves. Btw, Spain bought a lot of african slaves from the portuguese. The spanish couldn’t buy slaves from the africans directly, because of the treaty of tordesilhas.

@diogobarata6346

Жыл бұрын

What are you talking, about? The british have always made false propaganda about the portuguese.

@xmaverickhunterkx

11 ай бұрын

@@diogobarata6346 He is just talking about the size of it. Plus, the Brits do bad propaganda about everyone who isn't them all the time.

By the way, Felipe 2 has already imposed the 8-hour day for Americans on Sunday rest and the prohibition of the work of pregnant women, when did the Europeans do that?

@petessmith6623

2 жыл бұрын

When Felipe the 2 did he was European

@perico400

2 жыл бұрын

​@@petessmith6623 no, in the laws of indies

@petessmith6623

2 жыл бұрын

@@perico400 Von Hapsburgh.

@oolooo

Жыл бұрын

@@petessmith6623 Spain is not European

@marcostation1000

Жыл бұрын

when brithis do something right they are brithis. but when they do something horrible they are europea s, whites or weteners

Just one point It was the slave from the 13th colonies escaping to Spanish Florida, not the other way around. In fact, the very first free black towns in what is now the US were stabilized in Florida and protected by Spanish Crown.

@monicacaballero6160

4 ай бұрын

Fuerte Mosé was called. It was in San Agustin de la Florida

The images you have shown about Chile, are false. The man on the statue is a Chilean general, not a Spanish conquistador.

In the Philippines "Black Legend" still very common belief among us.

@mamarrachopunpun

Жыл бұрын

It's up to you, guys, to wipe off all misinformation and come to terms with your Hispanic heritage.

@AngelDGarcia

11 ай бұрын

Same in Mexico unfortunately

@joseantoniocastro1486

11 ай бұрын

When the american stole the Filipinas from the spanish, and after genocide more than 3 millions of filipinos they also took over the educational system and changed the language and spread the black legend, blaming the spanish for they actually did, but the truth will prevail finally.

@johnchristiancanda3320

8 ай бұрын

No thanks to the WASP's and the Katipunan.

@mariar.6741

6 ай бұрын

The great Emilio Aguinaldo, revolutionary leader of the Philippines, regretted having risen up against Spain. He said: "Yes, I am largely sorry for having risen up against Spain, and that is why when the funeral of King Alfonso of Spain was held in Manila I appeared at the cathedral to the surprise of the Spaniards. And they asked me why I had come to the funeral of the king of Spain against whom I rose up in rebellion... And I told them that he is still my king because under Spain we were always Spanish subjects, or citizens. But now, under the United States, we are just a consumer market for their exports, if not pariahs, because they have never made us citizens of any state in the United States... And the Spanish made way for me and treated me like their brother on that significant day."

Spain was the most kind colonial empires

@caramelc0rn

Жыл бұрын

it was a colonial empire regardless.

@abezebethou

Жыл бұрын

@@caramelc0rn and thats not bad one side of the world met the other side of the world for the first time in ages

@Someone45356

Жыл бұрын

Depends on your defintion of colonial and colony, because really the new world territories were called viceroyalties for a reason, not colonies. By comparison one definition of colony means a territory only used to extract resources and nothing more, something that not only cannot be attributed to spanish america but also can be very much attritubuted to many lands the english, french, dutch, etc, owned.

@xmaverickhunterkx

11 ай бұрын

@@caramelc0rn Not really. Unlike the Brits etc, Spain considered these "Colonies" to be part of the kingdom instead of occupied lands so to speak. There was proper laws and aid, not just taxes for the crown.

@Avram_Orozco

10 ай бұрын

Tell the blacks that the Bantu expansion was peaceful and whit people invented slavish in the 1500s 😂

Spain was always unique and stood apart from the rest

@arcotroll8530

Жыл бұрын

Every country "was always unique and stood apart from the rest", What you say makes no sense.

@HispaniolaHistoryChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@arcotroll8530 is every nation mentioned in the Bible? Does every nation have history involving Celts, Vikings, Christian kings and Moorish kingdoms? It's not that difficult to comprehend what I've said.

@arcotroll8530

Жыл бұрын

@@HispaniolaHistoryChannel Νο but every nation has history and its own unique identity. All that is history, is not exclusively EUROPEAN history. Do you get it now?

@HispaniolaHistoryChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@arcotroll8530 Spain's entire history is not limited to Europe, the Spanish Crown was a global power, including the Americas. Europe wants to take credit for all of Spain s glory but were at war and stole from Spain. So please overstand what I'm saying because the topic here is Spain and not "every other nation".

@lastword8783

Жыл бұрын

@@HispaniolaHistoryChannel No you mentioned "The Rest" its not just about Spain. You wrote yourself into that corner.

As a non spaniard but also a non northern european I have to say this: In foreign countries, the white or pink legend isn't there at all. It seems to be a spanish phenomenon and located within spain. The black legend is present, though in comparison from what I've seen from northern europe, it's not emphasized nearly as much. I believe that the black legend seems to be entirely from protestant countries and their negative opinion of the catholic church adds to this. also it's quite disconcerning that there aren't spanish authors (except for juderias) in your sources. Almost all of them come from northern europe. Now I'm not claiming that you are biased or malice, but it just seems to reinforce a very northern european and protestant narrative that seems to be omnipresent and omnipowerful

@Cholimao

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's also a common thing most of Spain counter-arguments on the black legend come from Spain itself and even in Hispanic America, being the reason why most of the anglo-speakers only hear one version of the argument most commonly being the anti-spanish one, the problem with the counter arguments is that they were trying too hard to put spain in a better place dismissing some critical points like minimizing the actions of the country itself, which also lead to an internal debate wheter this is even good thing or they are making the same mistakes of overexaggeration(which they are doing),it's a shame as Mexican i've been trying to clean the bad image of Spain in my country while not forgetting the problems and attrocities or miscarrieges that occur but that idea of the Bad Spain i'ts so deep rooted on hispanic consciousness that it seems pointless.

@Someone45356

Жыл бұрын

@@Cholimao its promoted by the very government and even the president AMLO will not shut up about things he literally has no idea about, yet people eat it all up from what he says, to the history textbooks saying this and that, to the gringos who also believe this reinforcing it, etc. It’s really wild how much of a deep root it has yet at the same time it makes the underdogs, the people who know the truth and want to spread it, more powerful in that sense since its the knowledge, its the wiping of ignorance the passing on of the actual happenings that is what will make people know what really is and what really isn’t.

debo corregirte pero en los paises bajos aunque intervinieron españoles gran parte del ejercito imperial estaba compuesto de neerlandeses , aquello fue una guerra civil pero los orange lo vendieron como una invasion eso forma parte de la leyenda negra I must correct you but in the Netherlands, although the Spanish intervened, a large part of the imperial army was made up of Dutch, that was a civil war but the Orange sold it as an invasion that is part of the black legend

@alfredoyelisa

2 жыл бұрын

¿De verdad? Bastante interesante, incluso pensaría que hubiera ayudado el sirg, gracias por la data

@perico400

2 жыл бұрын

son muchas capas de propaganda contra españa en diferentes epocas , convertidas en relato oficial para legitimar a los nuevos poderes , que no historia real

@perico400

2 жыл бұрын

@@alfredoyelisa la mayoria de la identidad europea de una forma u otra esta construida contra españa que era el poder ejemonico en la epoca de formacion de dichas naciones

@zorrozorro9681

Жыл бұрын

@@perico400 los envidiosos del norte usando el juego sucio y la propaganda !! ahora que tenemos lo que decian de España, y lo que ellos hicieron, que fue terriblemente peor !! hay que exponerlo, esto es lo que dijeron de España, y esto el lo que ellos hicieron !! La Doble moral protestante !!

@oscarmeneurubio3330

Жыл бұрын

Por no memcionar la importancia de las palabras específicas utilizadas. No fue conquista, fue liberación, no son latinos son hispanos. Maldito el apellido de Colon que comparte similitudes con colonización dando pie a confusion y refuerzo por asociación...

Imagine we in the Spanish world dedicate every bit of our cultural interactions with you was to create a French Black legend... imagine... how would you feel today if me with my accent started telling your people and neighbours what your own history is? how would you feel? Would the government try to send the Foreign legion to correct this?

Nope, sorry, you can't speak about the black legend facts and using them in your own arguments at the same time, the Spanish army in the Netherlands was anything but Spanish, it was the army of Flanders and most of their soldiers were Flemish for god sake, also... frequently unpaid? like everybody else? The biggest problem with the black legend is not the lies, it's the lack of context by omitting facts, like the Spanish inquisition dismissing witch accusations as nonsense unlike protestants who liked to burn them at the stake.

@luissantano9938

Жыл бұрын

Wtf ? And the number of Indians that you can find in Hispanoamérica is the same as you can find in Canada , US and Australia ??? You are blind or what ?

@InvictusSolDeus

8 ай бұрын

Exactly, The Spanish inquisitor Salazar y Frías promoted the end of the burning of witches, and the Spanish Inquisition prohibited it in 1614, becoming the first court in Europe to prohibit the execution of witches. In total, less than 300 people were executed for witchcraft by the spanish inquisition. In Britain, between 1,500-2000 people were executed for witchcraft (not only much more than Spain, but much more than Spain, Portugal and Italy combined), 4,000 in Switzerland, around 4,000 in France, in what is now Germany, between 25,000-30,000 people executed for Witchcraft. And let's not talk about religious intolerance. Everyone talks about when the Spanish expelled the Jews, and they use it as an example of the intolerance and religious fanaticism of the Spanish.... even though the Jews were expelled from practically all the European kingdoms. King Edward I issues the Edict of Expulsion of all Jews from England in 1290, and many Jews died because of it like the massacres at London and York in 1189-1190. And from the end of the 12th century to the end of the 14th century, the Jews were expelled from France many times (again, with many Jews killed because of it). But no one talks about these expulsions. Martin Luther, in addition to being a great promoter of the burning of witches, was also an anti-Semite so passionate that even the Nazis admired him.

Resulta penoso escuchar a alguien como este señor que pretende situarse en un punto medio diciendo "todos cometieron crímenes", "la virtud está en el punto medio", etc. How many natives are left today in North America, in Australia, in Tasmania? How many universities and hospitals did the English, the Dutch, etc. build? No sir, not all behaviors have been the same.

@GregGarciaHouse

2 ай бұрын

El señor éste, parte de la premisa de que todos los Imperios son iguales. Evidentemente falla. Tiene argumentos a favor pero para mi suenan más a estrategia para hacerlo parecer “objetivo” y distraer. Para mi, es un video para neutralizar la historia real: que Inglaterra y sus hijitos son el imperio depredador. Tanto así, que siguen metiendo la nariz en todo el mundo hispanohablante para mantéelo desorganizado y débil . Saludos de un Mexicano orgulloso de su herencia mesoamericana tanto como de la hispana.

@lauramartin-bk9nr

29 күн бұрын

Or the Portuguese, who were terrible colonizers and built cero universities and few hospitals. Spain built more than 800 hospitals n the Americas.

why today usa is all white and latin america you can see indian faces every were ? think about it

@Testimony_Of_JTF

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't north america less populated?

@marcostation1000

2 жыл бұрын

@@Testimony_Of_JTF is becausw spaniards had children with the indians. the engliah practice eugenics were ever they go

@Testimony_Of_JTF

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcostation1000 I know dude. Still I am quite sure that north America was less populated as most tribes there didn't have agriculture and stuff. The spanish did genocide less tho

@marcostation1000

2 жыл бұрын

@@Testimony_Of_JTF so it was less indians that is why is non left ? let me show you how indictrinated you are. indian descendancy Canadá 0,4 usa 1% México 60% Perú 90% Bolivia 90% look up eugenics Charles Darwin and the englis or american indian extermination not genocide.

@EdgardoPlasencia

2 жыл бұрын

Genocide in north America

In this debate, the black legend has a huge advantage since there is a lot of information lost within the barriers of the Spanish language since many official documents about the empire have not been translated and will not be. But I recommend that you read Elvira Roca Barea's book on imperophobia, it shows that the author has investigated the primary sources first-hand and knows what she is talking about.

@cangrejitamora

11 ай бұрын

Imperofobia y Leyenda Negra de Elvira Roca Barea es una pasada de libro de investigación.

Great to have international media fighting against both legends. As an historian friend of mine allways says, History is a scale of grey.

Bartholome de las Casas?? you forget about Antonio Montesinos ,and Francis of Vitoria ,dude

@lauramartin-bk9nr

29 күн бұрын

And the entire School of Salamanca.

Love this video. Love Spain, it's culture and story. I always feel annoyed when i see "Black Legend" narratives. Sure, there is no any Empire or Kingdom with the "Perfect" reputation. Everybody, everyone and anything has it's own black & white sides. But this "anticolonial"/"progressive" hysteria is going too far - they don't know history. / / p.s. - but still in the end the russian empire was the worst of the WORST. You can never find the "white" legend for the russian emperialism and colonialism, because there is nothing good was done by russian emperialists. Even communistic Soviet Union was some kind of profit-empire which used natural resources and native-people for it's own egoistical profit. True Empire of Evil.

@mamarrachopunpun

Жыл бұрын

Hey Olegh. Bear in mind the anti-Spanish black legend is a very clever tool to keep all Hispanic countries from uniting based in their many common features and heritage and becoming a world super power. Cheers from Spain.

@Someone45356

Жыл бұрын

@@mamarrachopunpun exactly, all the current superpowers are aware if a serious effort to reunify the spanish speaking territories happened it would be akin to making a new counterweight in geopolitics. This is why they built up subordinazing narratives like the black legend or that the anglos/western europeans created all whats modern and right and that whats spanish is lazy and bad/etc. So that the people themselves have a whole wall of mental puzzles to overcome yet most fall on believing what they are told simply put

Spanish empire legacy it’s like Harari says about imperialism we will not get a definitive answer. Aside from Belgian colonization all empires had a complex legacy some more than others, however the issue here is that Spain’s legacy should be held as with the same levels of complexity as it’s often done with the British empire.It’s not about washing there crimes or condemning them for all but to see it with the complexities of the word. However it shall be mention that the black legend to this day is reinforced in public education in Latin America, Spain’s legacy is demonize to the point of ridicule claiming making students believe that the Spanish were so bad that if we were discovered by the British or French we will live better. This way of thinking and teaching in Latin America is not a mere coincidence, sadly the Latin American governments push this agenda on order to find a good culprit for all the modern flaws of the country and its politicians or the failures of our independence. Mexico is a good example, ever since it’s independence Mexican leaders lost half of their territory, take awful economic choices, centralized power and rob the peoples of Mexico ever since but who is to be judged on this, well Spain it’s because of them and not our bad choices. Which is to say other harming thing of the black legend and it’s enforcement in public schools which is that first whashes all the crimes committed to communities after independence; the Latin American republics abolished a lot of the Indian reforms made by Spain while at the same time modernizing the exploiting tactics The Hacienda system of cultivation has little to no difference with the encomienda and yet in the school they teach you that you should be thankful with your heroes cause they ended the massacre of Indians and exploitation of the peoples of Latin America even though thats a huge lie. Simon Bolivar made himself a dictator and didn’t care for the Indians he actually killed a black commander for betrayal even though all his white commanders who were pardoned did the same, San Martín lead Argentina into tyrannical chaos and after independence natives of Argentina and Paraguay were persecuted with no mercy. That is to say we should look very carefully Spanish colonial history just as we look every colonial history; I love your video first time I see an English speaker portraying this grey portrayal of history in Latin America, I recommend you also to look all the things that happened after The Spanish empire left the country. It gives you a lot of perspective on the issue as well, thanks again for the video.

@maxharo7125

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I see the Black Legend mostly used by populist trying to put blame on an enemy rather than the true problem: their general incompetence. But like the video said we should also be weary of the White Legend or "Leyenda Rosa".

@FelipeGarcia-ch3iw

2 жыл бұрын

@@maxharo7125 agreed

@dekuboidonut4552

2 жыл бұрын

Spain was bloated with inflation and spiraling into a chaotic situation thanks to the napeolenic wars if we're being realistic independence was the best option and while yes Spain did do good things for its colonies it also sowed the seeds of racial and class tension. it was them who established a totem poll that put natives and former slaves at the bottom of totem poll not only enabling but encouraging exploiting of them post independence but also even gave more pure blooded European descent people a blank check to call the shots and Crack down on the lower ranked people. Also don't bring up Simon's mistakes if you're not also gonna admit the Spanish were barley much better to the indeginious, black and meztisos who even passively supported the uprising. Not even starting with how during the initial colonization of the Americas the Spanish treated the natives any better than immediately after post independence Latin American countries did.

@carnelujai

Жыл бұрын

@@dekuboidonut4552Well said….

@John-sz8je

7 ай бұрын

Those territories were always going to be lost as they were sparsely populated and Mexico had been involved in civil wars for decades so the population was weary from fighting in all those conflicts and why the US was emboldened to push into these territories at that time. Spain was in no position to stop the US either as they had their own issues to deal with in Europe which has always taken priority so if there had been no independence movements it would not have made any difference as well, soldiers from Europe would not have come to the rescue of Mexico. In fact Spain might have asked for and expected assistance from Mexico themselves. Spain’s hold on Latin American colonies had been tenuous almost from the outset of the colonisation period as it relied on the co-operation of the governors of these colonies. Once the loyalty of the Latin American elite was lost, independence of these territories was inevitable. I’m not sure that Spain had any genuine concern for the indigenous population all that much, as long as monies from Latin American countries continued to flow into Europe they were not all that fussed about matters related to the native communities. Once independence was gained it’s true that those governing were more interested in the indigenous communities assimilating into the dominant Westernised society that was composed primarily of mestizos with a large percentage of native ancestry, than encouraging native culture and traditions. I’m not convinced though that that was worse than the invasion, bloodshed and atrocities committed by foreigners in the 1500s.

what is the name of this old film about the Aztecs shown in some clips?

Remember who the Pope was at the time - an Aragonese marrano with an axe to grind with the Spanish Crown and the Inquisition.

@justinshades6652

2 жыл бұрын

The pope came to America? I'm being facetious.. the first bishop was sent to America by Pope Pascal.. the 1100s

Thanks so much for this I been having the black legend as an official story here on PuertoRico all my life I saw some Spanish youtubers who finally tell the truth and i get impressed but them I saw that on english nobody have even talk about this and everyone still thinking that spain where the worst thing . Thanks for this video

Spain is great

Remarkable that the statues were destroyed by the NEO Bolesheviks but were ignored by the original Bolesheviks after the 1936 revolution..

A bit off topic. I'm an ameture historian and a gamer. I must ask... how accurate is the history of the game, "Black Legend" compared to the actual history?

@forbidden6543

Жыл бұрын

Ignore. The Historical Black Legend is based on racism in Europe. The Game is about a Cult taking over London

@willfakaroni5808

Жыл бұрын

@@forbidden6543[insert joke about politics]

España NOOOOOO tenia colonias. En España, la colonia es un perfume barato. ¿Cuantas universidades, ciudades y hospitales construyó el imperio español en America y cuantas el ingles? ¿Cuantos nativos y mestizos sobrevivieron al imperio español e inglés? Solo hay que mirar la población de nativos y mestizos en Norteamerica e Hispanoamerica.

This video needs way more views

Underrated channel

Interesting stuff, never knew any of this. So god damned handsome too

Congratulations on 12K subscribers!

@Hipstorian

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, bud! Making good progress yourself!

@HistoryandHeadlines

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hipstorian You're welcome!

Yo me pongo colonia todos los días por las mañanas.

@willfakaroni5808

Жыл бұрын

That’s beautiful

You really deserve more views because you do a lot of good work! :)

What's the *systemic* difference between the roman and the english, french or dutch empires, however far apart in history? What is the difference between the soviet empire (whatever your ideological differences) and the portuguese or belgian colonies? We can all collect examples of plunder and rapacity from *any* of these projects. At this scale, they are indistinguishable from each other just as the molecular interactions or neural communications are between a pidgeon and a lizzard; does that mean that mean that we should confuse a pidgeon with a lizzard? No, they are completely different creatures. what we are missing is the systemic view of each of these projects. I oppose the pink/white legend just as much as the black legend, but people should start recognizing, just as they don't feel any remorse in feeling awe towards the Roman or Macedonian empires, that there is such a thing as a "Generator Empire" and a "Predator Empire"; or "Constructive Empire" vs. "Extracting Empire".

other part of the black leyenda is the theme of the dance, which is more common in the United States and is used for trade with china that is used to create new Spanish and Peru at the level of Spanish propa

Very good video and a new subscriber. Would there a video down the road about the racial colonial system in New Spain? I hear that it is much different in the preBourbon Monarchy than the Bourbon Monarchy.

Wow! The production for this is masterful! I am saddened to see I am "late for the party."

Sólo hay que echar un vistazo a la cantidad de nativos en países anglosajones en oposición a los países hispanos. Australia es un buen ejemplo, Estados Unidos también. La mitad de USA fue construida por españoles, cuando los norteamericanos robaron la mitad del país a México habían allí universidades, ciudades, hospitales y, no menos importante, acabaron con el el canibalismo y los sacrificios humanos. Los nombres de la mayoría de los estados de USA tienen nombres españoles (Oregon se pronuncia orégano, y Montana montaña). La esclavitud duró mucho más tiempo en USA que en el mundo hispano donde, legalmente, estaba prohibida, al igual que el maltrato a nativos. El propio Colón fue enjuiciado por maltratos. El mundo británico tiene más de vikingo que de anglosajón, pero claramente también tiene mejor prensa. Bartolomé de las Casas fué un mercenario.

@John-sz8je

7 ай бұрын

The sheer number of indigenous Americans in what is now known as Latin America, compared to North America where the native population was sparse, meant that Iberians from the outset had no alternative but to rely heavily on forging alliances with indigenous enemies of the ruling native empires at the time and why there are more people with indigenous ancestry in Latin America today. The decision to make indigenous allies was not out of benevolence but out of necessity as Iberians were seriously outnumbered from the outset and could not have toppled the ruling native empires without assistance. After the fall of the Aztecs indigenous prisoners suffering from pandemics were sadistically tortured, incidents that were supported by European clergymen, and those that survived were worked to death as slaves and replaced by slaves shipped from Africa. Some apologists try to rationalise it and justify it by saying it wasn’t their intention to kill them because they needed their slave labour to enrich themselves. Well if Iberians were such humanitarians for banning blood rituals out of concern for the welfare of the indigenous population, simply not enslaving and working them to death would probably have prevented tens of thousands of them from dying but that clearly was not the priority. Stealing the wealth of Latin America and becoming wealthy took precedence over the lives of people that were suffering from introduced diseases. You could argue that Iberians were considerably worse than the Aztecs, as they never caused a huge decline in native population, contrary to the claims that thousands of blood rituals a year were being carried out, that Iberian colonisation did. The pursuit of wealth was more important than the lives of sick indigenous people that resulted in tens of thousands of them dying via forced slave labour. Had the indigenous allies known what lay ahead in the future they may have made different decisions. Blood rituals were mainly carried out by the indigenous ruling elite and not every common subject necessarily participated or agreed with these practices. It would be akin to blaming every single German for the millions of Jews the Nazis gassed in the 1940s, every commoner in Britain for all heretics and witches that were burnt at the stake, all Iberians for people executed during the Inquisitions, all Roman citizens for those killed in the Colosseum for sport, etc... In any event most of these claims are mostly conjecture based on interpretations of artefacts and archeological sites. They could easily have been burial sites where dead bodies were mutilated and artwork that were meant to intimidate enemies, not necessarily accurate records of events. If these estimates of blood rituals were accurate the Aztecs would have run out of victims within a decade. The universities, hospitals, roads and other similar infrastructure were built by mestizos and indigenous Americans who comprised the majority of the population in the Iberian colonies (many who were servants) but it was generally intended mainly for people who were mostly of European ancestry or wealthy mestizos. It was only after these colonies gained independence that these institutions gradually became accessible to everyone regardless of ethnic and social background. Most of the laws introduced to protect the indigenous population were at the behest of European clergymen who had been advocating against the mistreatment and atrocities committed against them to the central authorities back in Europe. But when these laws were implemented they were often ignored by those in positions of power as the authorities that could mete out punishment for not following them were too far away in Europe to successfully enforce them in Latin America. It was more indentured servitude than slavery prevalent in the US, in any case African slaves were imported to replace indigenous people that died from harsh slave labour.

@mariar.6741

6 ай бұрын

@@John-sz8je Nobody denies that Spain negotiated with the native tribes, it is what we Spaniards say happened instead of the version of the black legend that says that Spain arrived and massacred all the natives. No, Spain did not massacre the natives, Spain allied itself with a large part of them, who preferred the treatment that Spain gave them to the treatment they received from the dominant peoples like the Mexicas (the same ones that you call Aztecs, only it is more correct call them by their name, because Aztecs are the inhabitants of the mythical Aztlan). Regarding the deaths in the bodies found at the time, both the UAM and Harvard University have stated that there are no signs of having died from violence, there are no marks of such a thing. What they have found is a variant of salmonella that seems to have been a great pandemic, and that not only killed natives en masse, but also Spaniards, although in smaller numbers. So check your sources because the Spanish did not massacre their allies but rather gave them noble titles (in fact they even gave titles to those Mexicas they fought against, for example Montezuma, and their descendants still live in Spain). You can also read a large number of documents from the time in which they talk about these natives in their positions of power or management of their own lands (even if it was under the umbrella of the Spanish crown). As for the number of indigenous people in the lands of Spanish America, it is not due to the deals they made with the natives in the first instance, but rather because Queen Isabella herself, the first Spanish queen of the Americas, considered the natives people (which was not the case when England years later discovered Australia) and Queen Elizabeth also encouraged the spaniards to form mixed families (that is, to marry and reproduce with natives and not only among Europeans as happened in other territories occupied by other Europeans. ). Interracial marriage was approved in Spain in 1503, while in countries like England or the USA it was approved in the 20th century. In addition, Queen Elizabeth herself also prohibited any mistreatment of the natives and respect for their property, with which the natives were able to coexist and even flourish together with the Spanish crown. And I can't answer everything you say point by point, but no, Spain did not enslave the Native Americans, in fact it prohibited all forms of slavery of the Native Americans in the year 1500.

@enlosluceros7236

5 ай бұрын

​@@John-sz8je si los hechos no coinciden con tu propaganda te tienes que inventar unas supuestas malas intenciones ocultas por parte de los españoles. Mira, cállate ya y deja nuestra historia tranquila

@lauramartin-bk9nr

29 күн бұрын

@@John-sz8je Who are the "Iberians"? There is no such thing. Spain and Portugal have completely different histories. One gave Laws protecting Native Americans (Laws of Burgos, 1512; Leyes Nuevas, 1542, etc), created International Laws (Francisco de Vitoria), held Human Rights Debates, built more than 800 hospitals, built 32 universities... the other, Portugal, was a brutal colonizer and built cero universities. And Portuguese have a big colonial history in Africa; not Spain.

I am assuming this here, but mad respects if you can read Spanish AND you bypassed the "muh literal natsis" filter and read Gullo and maybe other revisionist authors of Latin America. Greetings from Argentina.

Contra la leyenda negra, viva la hispanidad

The Damn Spanish they ruined Spain... my bad joke aside excellent video. I was familiar the concept of the black and white legend but this is the most in depth coverage of it I've seen and you avoided moralizing to the audience 👏 Consider me subscribed.

Buen video. El mundo no es solo blanco y negro.

Completamente en desacuerdo. Hubo y hay una leyenda negra ya que fue la política de estado hasta la actualidad del mundo anglosajón. Estos son racistas y nunca se mezclaron con los aborígenes, simplemente los mataron. Así que no es lo mismo imperio que es lo que creó España que imperialismo o colonialismo que fue el creado por los ingleses. Hay mucha diferencia entre ambos. Bastante diría yo

While there will always be a lot of death when different Kingdoms meet each other, and this is a "fair enough" video, I think the guy doesn't get the point. It is not just a "Gray" legend, it is purely black. Because this is in contrast to how other, much more devastating and evil Empires are portrayed as good and positive, when they are a billilion times worse than whatever Spain did. Also, you say Spain did X and X for profit, and that is sure true, but there is always a religious justification as well. Both can be true at the same time. The Queen decided to give human rights to the indians, because they were sons of God. You can then see the profit, sure, but the point is the religion behind each culture clearly defines and shows in how they did governing of their respective empires. Catholicism was of forgiveness and peace, while the other option wasn't. Had the north of Europe remained Catholic, perhaps the world wouldn't have been so effed up.

Arriba España

Great Video!!!

Cuanta gente con ascendencia nativa hay en Sudamérica y cuánta hay en Norte América???????????????? Nada más que decir.

@willfakaroni5808

Жыл бұрын

How many people with native ancestry are there in the Caribbean?

@gonzalomcampos

Жыл бұрын

@@willfakaroni5808Most of the islands in the Caribbean were unpopulated

@nomecreona3829

Жыл бұрын

@@willfakaroni5808 Well, the Caribbean is a very good example of the difference in European colonization if we compare Jamaica (colonized by the English), Haiti (colonized by the French), and Spanish Cuba. In the first two, colonized by the English and the French, there is not a single native left, all are black of African origin because all the natives were exterminated. The example of Haiti is even more evident because it shares the same island as the Dominican Republic where there are still natives.

@willfakaroni5808

Жыл бұрын

@@nomecreona3829 Both jamaica and Haiti were originally colonized by spain

@nomecreona3829

Жыл бұрын

@@willfakaroni5808 True, but that's precisely what makes my argument even more powerful. Let's see a brief summary to put some context. When the Spanish arrived in 1492, they settled on an island they named Hispaniola, which is now divided into two countries, the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In the early years, a lot of people died on the islands due to diseases brought by the Europeans, for which the indigenous people had no immunological defenses, having lived isolated from the rest of the world. Some historians estimate that 90% of the Caribbean and Arawak population died in the twenty years following the arrival of Christopher Columbus and his men in 1492 from the flu, measles, and smallpox. A demographic disaster only comparable to the European Black Death, which killed more than half of the population of all of Europe and Asia in the 14th century. It is known that in those 20 years, around less than 10,000 Spaniards (including men, women, and children) arrived on the island in total, because they were documented in Seville, where the expeditions to the New World were organized. Despite the cruelty attributed to the Spanish in the early years, until the Laws of the Indies were implemented, which prohibited enslaving the indigenous population (Laws of Burgos 1512, New Laws 1542), it is physically impossible for a handful of Spaniards armed with swords and crossbows (the arquebus was not popularized until the mid-sixteenth century) to have been capable of murdering the 40 million Indians that Bartolome de las Casas mentions in his book. Firstly, because as most current historians agree, it is most likely that there were no more than 12 or 14 million inhabitants on the entire continent, and secondly because it made no sense to exterminate a population that they needed to control an immense continent. If Bartolomé's figures were true, each Spaniard (including children and women) would have had to murder 200 people per year, equivalent to all the deaths of World War II, an absolutely absurd figure. In fact, the Spaniards who chronicled the disaster caused, especially by smallpox, had to import part of the labor they needed from the slaves they bought from the Portuguese, who had the monopoly on the slave trade from the African continent. This explains why today there is such a large population of African origin in the Caribbean islands. If we look at the case of Jamaica, which was not an English colony until 1655 or Haiti, which came under French rule in 1697, the current demographics explain a lot about their past and the figures are conclusive. Jamaica now has a population of African origin of 92%, Haiti of 95%, and the Dominican Republic of 15%. How do you explain that on the same island (the former Hispaniola) on the French side, 95% are of African origin and on the side colonized by Spain only 15%? How do you explain that in Jamaica it is 92% and in Puerto Rico it is only 12%? The historical explanation is that the English, who were allies of the Portuguese, imported many African slaves to exploit their rich sugar plantations, similar to the French in Haiti, because the natives were dying from the harsh working conditions they were subjected to and the Africans were more resistant. This was not the case on the Spanish side where slavery was prohibited by law for the native population. That proves that British or French colonization was much more brutal than Spanish colonization.

This was well done. I did wonder if the Black Legend persists in the modern US with the immigration debates?

The Black Legend is still strong here in the Philippines, no thanks to Rizal, Bonifacio and the WASP's.

Great great video!!!

Este video es una muestra más de la propaganda. No entraré en ningún debate con quién no tiene intención de buscar la verdad. Solo basta observar la estructura demográfica de los países iberoamericanos y de las

@holabuenas7200

2 жыл бұрын

Cómo?

I guess the White Anglo Saxon Protestants, the Puritans, baked the Native American cookies and were so kind to them!

you need to dig in deeper my man but good job

he Laws of the Indies (Spanish: Leyes de las Indias) are the entire body of laws issued by the Spanish Crown for the American and the Asian possessions of its empire.The laws are composed of myriad decrees issued over the centuries and the important laws of the 16th century, which attempted to regulate the interactions between the settlers and natives, such as the Laws of Burgos (1512) and the New Laws (1542) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_the_Indies

Viva Spaña!!!Viva Philippines Viva Mexico Viva Latin America 💥💥💥VIVA 🥳🥳🥳❣ Son of Spain!!

@samcabrera2316

2 жыл бұрын

¡Viva la Patria! 🇪🇸

Gracias

Why people only speak about spanish black legend but ignore the english black legend, american black legend , belgium black legend etc? I think because of the propaganda and jelous .

@enlosluceros7236

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, because Hollywood propaganda machine and its world influence portraying the Spaniards as always the bad guys certainly levels up to a random Spaniard saying he wants Gibraltar back. What are you? a mσrσn?

Thanks You for vídeo. I don't speak English

Race in course is not race in America. Features other than skin color where used and the culture was tied to the ethnicity because travel was extremely rare. It was a very different world with very different technology.

pink legend made by NO spanish, note it. Mostly South Americans...

what about latin america culture manifestations vs non-existing cultures of miscegenetion from the other empires ?

Una vergüenza que los videos iniciales sean de mi país…

I think this video matters more than people may think. Rigth now in Spain books about the Black Legend are as popular as ever. Many people have a very positive view of the Spanish colonial empire, even being proud of it. Spaniards always think they are so special and that their empire is the only one which has to suffer a Black Legend. But in reality every European country with a colonial legacy has tried to justify their colonial empire. It's nothing new. The UK still has imperial nostalgics that see their past empire almost as a destined humanistic mission, France doesn't even recognize its atrocities in Algeria and the Françafrique is only being weakened by the competition of other foreign powers, the Dutch until very recently saw their empire as just a enterprise of humble explorers and merchants, Portugal the same, just a small innocent merchant empire. Even Russia, with their supression of Ukrainian, Kazaq and other peoples, is only being critized now, when just fours days ago it's just was how things worked in the so-called Russian world. As this century passes, Europe (again) will not have the same geopolitical power as the last two centuries. But meanwhile the continent is filled with far rigth nationalistic political parties and nostalgics of empires that just don't exist anymore. Everything is fine. Anyway, good video.

@vicentegarcia7102

8 ай бұрын

Yeah? Where are those videos about the other countries black legend? I guess so much hatred makes us feel special...

@enlosluceros7236

5 ай бұрын

"Spaniards always think they are so special" that's pure fuelled hatred right there. Like "you, the first world power, you are a little country now that we are going to keep ignoring and through that ghosting treatment you're going to learn how important we are and how you don't matter anymore no matter how well you do or how many succeeds you have". That's what that sentence is really saying.

History written by the victors,the voices of the victims are silenced

"cruel, tyrannical....and foul-smelling"

Could you make a video about American Revolutions, because the same rubbish happens to it, lies and lies everywhere

CALLATE MATE , BECAUSE THE ENGLISH ARE SO INNOCENT...🤣🤣

I love how these Castilians try so hard to cover up their cruelties making us believe that their Black Legend doesn't exist just like how they refuse to admit the truth that Lapu-Lapu killed Magellan. Admit the truth of your cruelties Castilians.

@xispaster

15 күн бұрын

El origen del apellido Palacios se encuentra en el valle de Carranza, Vizcaya, de donde pasó a Castilla y Navarra y, posteriormente, a toda América. En el año 1887 fue otorgado el Marquesado de Villarreal de Alava, a doña Carmen Velasco y de Palacios.

In all your videos there is none dedicated to the British Black Legend, American Black Legend or Russian Black Legend, why only Spanish Black Legend.... interesting, uh? Black legend has nothing to do with History, it's politics... you can't fight politics with historical facts, they won't listen.

@GatoMestizo.

5 ай бұрын

Because it does not exist

@enlosluceros7236

5 ай бұрын

No te da vergüenza defender a los ingleses llamándote Vicente García? A mí sí me la daría

Oh, no! Heckin racisms?? Thanks for the warning, I won't waste my time.

Did Columbo cut the hands of natives or not, No Esquesses, please, Otomammn empire far more better than europeanpowers as colonial power.

I'm not sayin that things don't get wiped from and added to historical record, but Spain has indeed done MORE THAN enough to earn its "Black Legend". It's disappointingly predictable that nuthin was said about the near genocide of "Black" or Negro Jews (mainly the conversos & marranos ) prior to their expulsion during the Spanish inquisition, which led to their exile into Portugal until the Portuguese inquisition (Auto da Fei/Acts of Faith), which then led to the further exile of the "Black" Jews into Africa where they were $old into the transatlantic slave trade by the "Black" Moors, Arabs/Muslims, Africans, edomite Jews and ashkenazi Jews. This was ALL pretty much initiated by several papal bulls and decrees by the Spanish Crown and the Catholic church. Of all the different races of Sephardic Jews, The Mongol/Turkic-descended White Jews of this time period, didn't suffer this fate. Maybe cuz at the time they couldn't usually be racially distinguished from the caucasian European Christians/Catholics. The edomite Jews didn't get shafted either. Only the Negroes who were known to be bloodline descendants of the Biblical era Jews did. They literally had their cultural identity, wealth, children and freedom stolen from them cuz of what Spain and Portugal started. Everything I'm sayin was written and recorded in several books over 300+ years by people who were there and those who lived during the next couple centuries afterwards when this wasn't suppressed like it is now. Not to mention the DNA and archaeological evidence that corroborates it.

@Codreanu_Prezent

Жыл бұрын

Nonsense

@drazig7579

11 ай бұрын

Didn't You watched the video?

@elviralopez6503

10 ай бұрын

Quizás no sabes que los judios fueron expulsados de muchos paises europeos, siglos antes de que fueran expulsados de España. Inglsterra los expulso en dos ocasiones y de Francia 3. Desde los siglos XII y XIV. Pero solo se habla de la expulsión de los judios de España. Esta es otra prueba de la leyenda negra.

@InvictusSolDeus

5 ай бұрын

The Jews were expelled from all of Europe: England expelled them in the year 1290, France signed numerous edicts of expulsion of Jews throughout the 13th century, Naples expelled the Jews in 1288, etc... And persecuting the Jews was also something that all the nations of Europe did. Martin Luther, father of Protestantism, was deeply anti-Semitic to the point that the Nazis dedicated coins in his honor. Why then do none of these countries have a black legend? Precisely, despite its bad reputation, the Spanish inquisition was one of those that tortured and executed the fewest people compared to the inquisitions of other countries. The English Anglicans killed more Catholics in a few decades than the Spanish Inquisition did in its three centuries of existence (Between 3000-5000 people)

Ñ

The hate for the Spanish and Spain itself are quite high. But most of the time many don't care about the horrible things or the blatant cultural genocide they committed. Usually overshadowed by the British or the other acts of the other colonial powers.

@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4

2 жыл бұрын

@@fedevida1951 a blatant cultural genocide when seen from our time. Also I don't imagine the dead people from back then would think about such things. Given the norms and values were different back then.

@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4

2 жыл бұрын

@@fedevida1951 the hatred for the Spanish is quite high. And by who, well who do you think. The people who were colonized. Those whose cultural identity was oppressed, sometimes persecuted (some even fully eradicated) treated as servants/slaves. Mainly from former colonized, now independent countries. The hate is historical and not someone's nationality. Heck there are even some protest in Latin America where they are toppling colonial statues.

@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4

2 жыл бұрын

@@fedevida1951 I feel like your trying to divert information away from the main conversation by saturating it with other info that wasn't asked or requested. While dragging in events from another country to fill in the space. Also in the last 10 years or so. There has been a drastic shift in understanding historical events that isn't found in the educational system or books. So now instead of the quiet hate for the Spanish before. The newer generation are more vocal in expressing it. All the cultural genocide, oppression, treatment of local, destruction of native records and the force assimilation into the oppressors cultural way of things. All that is being brought to light which justifies why the hate for Spain and the Spanish existed in the first place.

@Drzahman

2 жыл бұрын

@@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4 all of that is false and pertains to black legend propaganda. For starters Spain did not have colonies, but viceroyalties.

@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4

2 жыл бұрын

@@Drzahman colonies grew big enough that the Spanish crown gave them the title viceroyalties. Also giving that title the powers to act an authority. But it's still considered colonies.

Fact is Spanish still trouble.

@flordete3697

Жыл бұрын

Lo que demuestra el éxito de la Leyenda Negra, nada más

No wonder why we Filipinos really hated the Spanish, even not Officially adopted their Language and hated anything that Spanish implemented on our people. That is why various revolutions have occur during their Colonization until their fall in the Spanish-American War. . .

@econman5670

2 жыл бұрын

Mostly flamed and exacerbated by America in the 19th Century, just like in Latin America

@DemitriusX666

2 жыл бұрын

@@econman5670 The Americans exacerbated and inflamed revolutions in the Philippines and South America during the 1800s?

@econman5670

2 жыл бұрын

@@DemitriusX666 My bad, thanks for pointing that out I meant the 20th Century (1900's)

@marcostation1000

2 жыл бұрын

america and england never lie to create propaganda, racism and hate Irak weapons of más destrucción exist

@jorgenjackson3231

2 жыл бұрын

After the conquest of the Philippines by the US of A, about two million Philippine peoples were murdered, exterminated, killed by the new "benefactor". The eradication of the Spanish culture and language from the Philippines was a conscious effort of the US to better culturally dominate the country, by separating it from their roots. There is a whole Philippino culture in Spanish that has been ignored, when it wasn't simply destroyed. It was the culture of some of your greatest national heroes. It is funny that, if Spanish was the language of the Philippines, you would be talking of about "cultural genocide". But as it is not, you are saying the Spanish were so evil, people didn't want to speak their language. The truth is, Spain never imposed the language anywhere, it was AFTER the independence that countries in Sout America imposed Spanish. Btw. the Japanese finished up the uprooting process by destroying completely Manila. The city has to have been one of the most beautiful, and fascinating cities in Asia.

As a South American I can testify we hate those spanish symbols.. the whole place is littered in churches built all over sacred indigenous places. Enough is enough. (Unpopular opinion)

@kles44

2 жыл бұрын

What is a South American? Most people in Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile and others are descendants of the conquerors. In other words you are the hiers of the conquest by Spain and exist today because Spaniards took the land. Most people in the Americas died off from disease which left Spanish men and Indian women to create a new mixed population that exists to this day. If you all hate the Spaniards you really hate yourselves and do not know it. There's no such thing as a 'pure' native American.

@giantorres3352

2 жыл бұрын

So you hate the symbols of your ancestors? Do you also hate the language that your mother spoke to you?

@Drzahman

2 жыл бұрын

Atiende a tu nombre por dios! sino cambiatelos a Machu pichu, ponte plumas en la cabeza y sacrifica a tu gato en el tejado de tu casa por el dios tlaloc. Que manipulado estás.

@guillermosanchez9989

2 жыл бұрын

You hate Spanish symbols but at the same time you emigrate to Spain lolmao.

@EdgardoPlasencia

2 жыл бұрын

You have racial resentiments

Well probably there is a black legend because it is true

@diegoapalategui579

2 жыл бұрын

Sure....study a little bit. Where are the natives and mixed? South or North America?

@guillermosanchez9989

2 жыл бұрын

If it was true there wouldn't be any mestizos or natives in center and south America. Where you can't find them it's in North America (US and Canada), perhaps those who were more brutal were the British.

@apathy251

2 жыл бұрын

@@guillermosanchez9989 spaniards and portuguesse were pretty chill, anglos and belgians were the most cruel and brutal of the lot

@EdgardoPlasencia

2 жыл бұрын

It's not

@flordete3697

Жыл бұрын

Hay Leyenda Negra, no historia negra. Inglaterra no tiene leyenda negra, sí historia negra, igual que Holanda, Alemania y USA