Modelling is the future of sample libraries. I think sample libraries should be going smaller in terms of size, not bigger. I've slimmed down to a laptop-based setup, running Audio Imperia Nucleus for traditional samples, with Aaron Venture brass and winds and Pianoteq for keys. My template takes up only a third of the RAM on my 16 GB machine and sounds better than anything I had achieved with other sample libraries previously. I'll be investing in only modelled libraries (Sample Modelling, V-Winds/Horns, Aaron Venture), sound design plugins or budgeting to record real players going forward (with this being the end-game goal), but my days of buying traditionally-sampled orchestral (or other) libraries have definitely come to an end. Why do I need 230 GB of drums (Superior Drummer 3), or 200+ GB of just strings with 26 mic positions (Spitfire HZ Strings)? It's not justifiable for me personally, and really isn't pushing the industry forward in terms of technology, or supporting those who are trying to do new things with sampling.

@eriong.7446

Ай бұрын

Actually imho AI is the future of sample libraries. I’m pretty sure it won’t take too long until there will be an AI model that can read a score and play it. With singers and everything. Like udio just for written music. The sound quality is not that great yet, but I’m sure it will get better. Gone will be the days of midi programming, can’t wait.

@NeuroPete

Ай бұрын

Yes! VWinds/Brass sound fantastic, and are so much easier to produce a natural sounding performance than standard sample libraries, and all without key switches. For the future, I see AI applying a similar nuance of performance as a human would to a set of notes on a page.

@Reactor10k

Ай бұрын

Modelled instruments don’t sound that good. Every time someone talks about how great they sound, I have a listen and there’s something off about them. And, that makes sense. There’s so much more to sounds than the physical reproduction of them.

@kimseniorb

Ай бұрын

its AI not modelling

@Reactor10k

Ай бұрын

@@kimseniorb The original post was about modelling, not AI.

I agree with the sentiment here. My gripe currently, is that some library brands consider themselves composers first. This isn't acceptable anymore and no-one is falling for that boutique artisan rhetoric. You are a SOFTWARE COMPANY. Ensure you're working on latest OS updates, patches etc. Don't leave your libraries to fester. Anyone remember the last update to BBC Symphonic Orchestra? It's still not even fully signed off on operating systems two years old. With the playing-field so level in terms of quality and realism, you'll stand out more by being known for stability, compatibility and excellent support. I'm leaning more and more towards Kontakt libraries as I know NI will regularly be working on this platform.

@phoenixrising4995

Ай бұрын

BBCSO doesn't need to be signed, the Spitfire App does and is. What is annoying is sometimes your presets will disappear from the plugin. That is my only real gripe with the dedicated player.

Thank you! You reminded me of the libraries I bought and forgot about and also showed me new ones to try! Thank you!🔥❤️🙏

@sj-comps

17 күн бұрын

yoo why does nobody recognize you lmaoo

As hobbyist composer, I have spent way too much money on libraries myself. In my possession I have (amongst others) VSL (which tend to be very 'dry' and upclose sounds), Komplete 13 Ultimate, and 2 orchestra from East West. While I am like yourself, I usually stick with that one library (from East West) because it suits my needs. And sometimes I like to go for a different vibe so I come back to Komplete 13 and their string sessions. The only issue I am currently having, with especially that many sounds to choose from, I totally get lost from time to time to figure out which sounds to use. Back in the days when I was limited with a single daw, and only a few plugins, I tend to be more 'creative' with the sounds that I have. But today, I feel like wandering around a dense forest... and I am totally lost

@Milan____

18 күн бұрын

If you use VSL VI or Synchron-ized, they're at their best when you chose the dry mixer preset and pair them with MIR Pro [3D]. Synchron libraries do have reverb baked into them, of course that depends on whether you find the Synchron hall large enough. But yeah, in the end, it's less about which lib you have and more about how intimately you know it and how good you are at orchestrating. (As it is with all hobbies and skills and art and craft.)

I mostly agree. There are tons of small indie devs out there committed to creating quality libraries, but of course only a few of us can afford to get into the orchestral game. Jasper and Aron have that area pretty well covered from an indie perspective, but the rest of us try to push the envelope in other ways, it’s just hard to break through the noise from the big devs.

@joecm

4 күн бұрын

Hey who are you referencing here with Jasper and Aron? Thanks

@jameseverett9037

2 күн бұрын

@@joecm Jasper Blunt of Performance Samples, and I don't know who Aron is. Might be the Cinematic dude, I think last name is Banks or something....down in Aussie land.

This video explains why I absolutely respect Jasper Blunk and Performance Samples. Really innovative sampling and just hard work and commitment to quality :)

@jameseverett9037

2 күн бұрын

yea, my fav. string sound is Vista. It has that gritty emotional quality I could never find in other samples. I really wish he had done a viola for his Pacific solo Str. though. And a Bass would be nice.

As hobbyist composer, I admire anyone who can make a living at it. Before retiring from my non-music job 14 months ago, I went crazy buying sample libraries, and other virtual instruments in anticipation of a big drop of income. I spent a lot of money on orchestral libraries from Spitfire and the NI Komplete collection. If I could do it over, I would buy a Musio perpetual license instead, for the price of one or two expensive Spitfire or Cinesample libraries. I got Musio recently to fill in some of the gaps in my instrument collection. There is a huge number of libraries included. It seems that it doesn't have the full controls to create the highest level of convincing and nuanced mockups for professional composers, but I don't have the skill or desire to do so, now that I understand a little about how much work and knowledge is involved. I should have realized that all I really want is to arrange the songs I write with some beautiful orchestral elements that sound not obviously fake. Of course, since I already own the lovely Spitfire stuff, I will use it, but much of the Musio collection is damn nice too, such as the Tina Guo cellos and the Gina Luciani flutes.

Really great breakdown. I didn't consider competition would lead to products being not as good. I use Native Instruments collection of strings and brass. I really love the sound for what I do. I make music for sync licensing and the brass hits sound so good to me.

Just wondering how and where you store the libraries? Especially libraries that have VSTi front ends to access the files, SampleScience comes to mind?

So I recently got just the Male and Female Choir part of Orchestral Tools's Tallinn. I got it for a very specific project and because it had a very specific characteristic that I knew was perfect for what I was doing, which was having the Estonian Philharmonic Chamber Choir, who has often premiered Arvo Pärt's compositions. I am very pleased with it and it will serve me very well for this particular purpose. I agree with a lot of what you put forth. I think it's recognizing that there is such a thing as diminishing returns when it comes to products available. I also think it's important to practice due diligence on a product before committing to it, so yes having trial periods and the like. In my aforementioned case, I liked that I could pay for a portion of a library, rather than the entire thing. That way, I am only paying for what I really need and I can pay for the rest of it if needed at a pro-rated price. There's probably more but that's enough for now =]

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

I totally agree! I think Orchestral Tools did an amazing thing allowing customers to buy just what they need. It feels like more companies should implement this feature. Cheers! 🙌🏻

Thanks for taking time to make this, it's stopping buying more libraries I really don't 'need' just because they're on sale. I have subscribed to EW to try HD2 and so far have had big problems with Violins 1 legato doing some very weird things, for example playing two notes together a semi tone apart 😮. Tech support did respond very quickly but not solved. So far glad i haven't bought it. A review of HS2 would be great.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Yup. I’m getting the same behaviour in HS2 as well. This is what caught me by surprise when I tried it at first. They already have such a great HS1 product. Why is HS2 not as good?! 🤦🏻‍♂️

@thirdeye7786

Ай бұрын

@@BrianRivlin I have both HS1 and HS2 and what you describe sound like you are trying to place two notes at the same time? The legato works for me in the same way in HS1 and HS2, where you must play a melodic line. None of the legato patches will play polyphonic if you try to play a chord or something

@dkbbass403

Ай бұрын

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, when playing the same note over and over say 16ths suddenly one of the notes will sound together with a note a semi tone up😮. When you play a legato line you seem to get two notes sounding together for a moment, long enough to notice. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I've not had this problem with other libraries, lag yes, but not sounding together.

Great video! Spitfire is now beginning to flirt with the subscription model. However, since Christian’s departure from the company it feels like their heart and soul has diminished, if not completely disappeared. You make many valid points here… thank you for your willingness to speak out! Cheers!

@TheJonHolstein

Ай бұрын

Still to this point, if there is any company i might feel like subscribing to, it would be spitfire, as they release enough of varied new content. However, I suspect a spitfire complete subscription, would simply be way too expensive. After them, NI has potential, as when their own ideas run out, they can always license a bunch of 3rd party libraries, to make sure each new iteration comes with enough new stuff. And if it help DAW developers to updating the feature-set continuously, it could make some sense to subscribe to a DAW.

@Gardener7

Ай бұрын

Spitfire has this labs subscription thing which won't include any of their valuable libraries, but new ones which don't exist yet. That's what I read.

So true, I've been saying this for years. In fact it's always surprised me how developers have managed to stay afloat for so long without selling anything better. And don't get me wrong, they've been selling new interesting stuff too. But these libraries aren't usually traditional orchestral libraries and aren't definitely the 'big name/big release' they try to build hype about - those big names are ALWAYS traditional orchestral libraries.

I think it depends on what sort of music you want to make. If I want to mock-up a piece that will ultimately be performed by a real orchestra then I'll always use VSL. They seem to be the closest to what you'll hear in a recording studio. If your music is solely studio based and unlikely to be performed by a live ensemble, then use whatever library sounds good to you! Also, and this applies to all libraries, find out what your samples can do - it will save you money!

I really dont think that modelling is THE future. It probably has a place in a full orchestral template. But the sound of sampled instruments is just so extremley realistic that I personally don't need anything more versatile than that. At some point the amount of work you need to adjust every single parameter in the modelled instrument becomes so time consuming that it's not worth it. It sound worse and it's more work. I don't get it. AI is different in that case because it could make things faster, better and more versitile at the same time. The only problem with ai is that you need so much training data that it becomes almost impossible to make an ultimate scoring ai. All the big companys would have to combine and make one epic product for this to work. Otherwise it will take a pretty long time for ai to have a place in samples libraries. And for most instruments ai will probably not be better. It will just be different. With things like choir this is a different story I think. Because everyone needs voices and voices are so unique that ai will probably play a big role in that regard. People are happy with what they have and it's already extremley easy to make music with all of the librarys we have that ai will just not be a very big market in music.

@jameseverett9037

Күн бұрын

That's true, which is why I think a.i., will bring something unexpected, rather than the obvious attempts at improving virtual instruments. Who's going to put out the cash while they already have a bunch of sample libraries? Until they get us over the key switching, and limitations of loading various articulations...having a string player on a single track who can play any articulation seamlessly, as well as any nuance of legato, slur and dynamic, all by the a.i. player's own interpretation of your score. The big breakthrough will be a complete virtual orchestra with individual players who can read a score. Plus a new scoring system for amateurs to communicate their ideas to the Virtual Orchestra players and conductor. No need for separate tracks [unless you want them].

Agree! I have sent a mail to all the big companies asking them to add a demo for their products. Everyone said no. Thats because server cost and technical challenges.

I’ve only been doing composing/producing for a hobby for about 3 years. I already have more libraries than I can keep up with. And I definitely don’t need anymore ensemble or “toolkit” libraries. I find myself gravitating towards phrase libraries with midis drag and drop or sound design libraries with very unique tool sets. These help my workflow and keep me feeling inspired and productive.

Very well put. Thanks for sharing! 👍 I feel quite the same way about Hollywood Strings, although nowadays I'm adding quite a bit of colors from ProjectSAM Symphobias and Spitfire Chamber Strings among some other select libraries. ✨ Legato patches are, indeed, a revealing element in how well many of these things have been thought out. Bohemian violin is, so far, the only dedicated solo violin vsti I have been able to tolerate, having grown up close to the real deal. 😅 - Eero

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Yeah anything ProjectSAM ads a lot of life and flavour for sure. I wouldn’t use it as my main library (depending on the scene) and for sure as added color. And solo strings are SO hard to make. For me personally, Cinematic Studio Solo Strings for a small quartet sound. And I’m really looking forward to Performance Samples’ solo strings. The demos sound VERY promising.

A question: There’s a lot of focus on large “Hollywood’y” solutions - and several great ones. However, my productions are within “popular music” (not actually pop), typically where string sections would range from a quartet to like 4-3-2-2. I’ve used partials from an old LASS version, but the mastering of this old product is _very_ bright, showing its age. Could someone suggest a newer’ish library covering smaller sections well? I arrange “old school” from scratch, so I’m fine without ‘phrases’, combos and the likes. Divisi, good legatos, dynamic control, senz. vib. etc are crucial, though… Thanks for inputs… 😊

@convolutionsounds4431

26 күн бұрын

You might try the Spitfire Quartet and the Spitfire Chamber sets. I think with attention to detail they can sound really good. I honestly prefer Chamber over their bigger orchestra sounds.

What all-in-one orchestral library solution do you guys suggest? I have kontakt but i work with individual samples most of the time (hiphop producer). I feel like i'm missing a good library that lets me create hq orchestral samples on my own.

@SineEyed

Ай бұрын

For only a few more days, 8Dio is selling a bundle of 10 of its libraries for less than the average retail price of just one of those libraries. They're selling what would be over $3200 of their products for only $199. That's a crazy good deal. They've included everything you'd need and more to get into orchestral composing. Strings, horns, winds, percussion, and more... it's all there. If you're not familiar with 8Dio, I can tell you that their sound quality is amazing. It's lush and full of life, and you'll find lots of inspiring surprises within each library. I would strongly suggest you look into it. Just be aware that the download size of the complete bundle is over *300 GB* -- so if you were going to make the purchase, I would advise buying an external ~500gb SSD drive to store all the libraries in their own dedicated space..

@micheleduritto

Ай бұрын

Do you have Kontakt full or Kontakt Player?

@redbigapplefloppa302

Ай бұрын

@@micheleduritto i have full kontakt, yes.

My current favourites are the Virharmonic Bohemian series solo instruments. The 'AI' assisted articulation switching and style modes is where all of these libraries and sample players should be headed. So much faster work flow.

@Maplefoxx-vl2ew

Ай бұрын

probalby zero offset delay too right? this is what all libraries need. i will uninstall CSS because of this.. been pulling out my hair all week

For us music producers in hip hop, the libraries were just WAY too expensive. I understand quality costs but when each library costs more than the DAW, it’s a hard decision to make. Maybe for you guys getting $2,000+ sync fees, it’s pennies lol but to most music producers not in sync, the prices were the hard obstacle.

@HieuAnNguyen-qd9oq

Ай бұрын

Just pirate it lol

@rct3isepic

Ай бұрын

There's tons of free alternatives. While I don't make hip hop I do make Electronic music, and there's lots of ways to get good orchestra samples for free or very little. For example, there's a free BBC orchestra, project Sam has 2 versions of the free orchestra, VSL has some real good free stuff, and if you have Kontakt proper there's a fantastic free group of libraries under the Alpine label.

@HieuAnNguyen-qd9oq

Ай бұрын

@@rct3isepic None of those can even hold a candle to CSS and Spitfire Chamber Strings

@rct3isepic

Ай бұрын

@HieuAnNguyen-qd9oq the library doesn't make the Composer. You can compose good music on any of the ones I just mentioned. And it's not illegal

@HieuAnNguyen-qd9oq

Ай бұрын

@@rct3isepic Of course it doesn't, but you're misunderstanding the role of the library. The role of the library is for production purposes and you can't get that with cheap libraries.

Kinda curious, by the way... how did you land your first composing job with that TV show?

At the end of the day, the very best libraries/instruments for composing with or making music with, are the ones that you HAVE, not the ones you wish you had. I have Spitfire BBCSO Core. A very good all round library, which I love, and has absolutely made me as a composer. The next logical step for me would be BBCSO Professional, but that will have to wait until the pocket is ready. In the meantime, I will continue to compose and record using BBCSO Core and my MIDI hardware instruments, because those are what I have.

Great analysis! Did you try the new Soundiron strings? I guess they tried exactly this, to solve some problems other devs still didn’t

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

I haven’t. But thanks for the suggestion! You know, there are so many libraries out there, it’s hard to keep up with all of them, so some of them are down to go unnoticed by some of the users. I’ll check some demos out. 🙏🏻

Good points Brian. Still amazed that barely any devs really update their existing products. Yes you cannot capitalize on updates as much as on new releases, but still leaving users with broken products should not be an option.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Yup! Showing that you care about your product even after its release makes me (personally) feel like that company cares about maintaining a good relationship with their customers (as opposed to just getting more money out of them). Which, in my books, is more important than shiney new products every month.

Also, on the topic of Try Before You Buy, 8Dio used to do something interesting: release a limited-scale version of a library for a fraction of the price, just so users could get a feel for what it could do. It was fully functional, but with fewer samples (and a range of one octave). Great video btw, I agree with what you are saying and I've noticed the same thing in recent years. I too still get excited when I read about the upcoming BEST THING EVER library, only to find that it's a 60GB legato-only module with 30 mic positions or something of that sort. Companies seem to be putting more effort into putting out more libraries than putting out good-sounding and well-scripted ones.

Please don’t stop making these vids!

There's pros and cons to all the libraries. I prefer to use libraries that offer control with a UI that I can cope with, even if it requires a bit of time to learn. LASS and MSS are more complicated than most other libraries imo, but that's basically all I use for the majority of all the string work I do and I love them to bits. As long as you're ok with creating a bunch of automation lanes, they do exactly what I need and I think they can sound very convincing. I've also had happy feedback from music supervisors who are extremely critical about things like realism for orchestral work, so to me at least, this is a good sign. A cute feature of going to study orchestration at a formal institution is having libraries to mess about with before deciding to purchase one, as many music schools have a bunch of libraries already installed, and often the teachers will bring a dedicated HD+license key with them to use when giving a class. But obviously the cost of the education like that far outweighs the cost of most libraries...😂 I waited a couple of years before buying any specific libraries, and really "spammed" my teachers and friends beforehand to make sure I knew all about them/try them out at their studios etc. before dropping my cash on anything. Thanks for the video! Really interesting topic, and I definitely agree that orchestral libraries have basically plateaued in the last few years.

So what are your 3 main libraries, and what are your other 2-3 that you use to layer or fill in? Maybe consider making a video giving your recommendations while discussing some more nuance. Which ones do you think play well together? Which increase or improve your workflow? Which sound good to you? What do you consider to be quality libraries and/or synths/instruments? Personally, I'm still a huge fan of Omnisphere, Zebra2/Diva, Albion One, Cinebrass, Cineperc, Tina Guo Cello, OT Berlin Woodwinds, Cinematic Studio Series, The Etheras, Oceania Choir, Abbey Road One Foundations (as a supplementary library), BBC Core ($240 on sale was a pretty good deal for an entire orchestra in a box), Albion Solstice, and some of the NI Komplete stuff like Damage, The Giant/Alicia's Keys/Una Corda pianos, Thrill for more aleatoric stuff, and Mysteria. I stopped buying stuff once I got these and a few niche things. Haven't bought a string library in years. The only thing I still want to get at some point is E/W Hollywood Opus, just so I can check out the strings and play with the orchestrator. It's a lot cheaper now compared to what it was at release, and still a lot of value. On a side note, AI companies such as OpenAI or ElevenLabs and Udio or Suno will probably make Sample libraries, and sample library developers who don't integrate AI, obsolete. Maybe not yet, but in 2-3 years or so, its going to happen because this stuff is moving at an incredible pace. I won't need a sample library when I will be able to tell some AI to add some violins or a chamber orchestra or some choir to the score I wrote, or the melody I hummed. Some companies like Cinesamples are jumping on the AI bandwagon, but guys like Spitfire are still stuck in the past believing that people are going to be spending 2k on some bs overpriced modular Abbey Road library that nobody actually asked for, or needs, that they claim is the next best thing since slice bread. Spitfire makes some great things, but it also makes complete garbage, and are sometimes completely out of touch. For example, find me a single use case for their Cassette Orchestra. I can't. I haven't seen a single review or a single person who actually made anything with that library. I learned to not buy into any more marketing bs or gas.

@phoenixrising4995

Ай бұрын

BBCSO, Albion One, Abbey Road Two Strings over here. I also got VCSO2 for ethnic texture stuff.

@AtiDBit

Ай бұрын

UVI?

I dream of having the tools to make music just for myself, without any professional concerns. But there are so many options. I'm undecided about which ones are the most accurate. The tools I want to use are seaboart rise2, Pa5x korg, some libraries I chose from Global Sound sweden as backing sound, and strings, wind instruments, drums and guitar from the swam sound library. Eastern sounds (Indian, Arabic, Turkish instruments) from the contact library, I think that's enough. However, I could not make a decision about the program. I want your suggestion. There will either be programs related to the Mac system or Windows. Studio One seems to be the most advanced. But it only works with subscription. I don't want such a thing. It would be nice if its own sound library was also sufficient. Although Cubase is very advanced, it is said that it is not very user-friendly. Frankly, I don't need that much professionalism. Which one do you recommend?

This is why Jasper Blunk and Aaron Sapp are my two favorite devs. They both genuinely care about pushing the art of sampling forward. And their products are really incredible

I stopped buying orchestral libraries years ago. I used to be on the hunt for the best, greatest, most realistic and expressive, etc., and I wish I could get the money I spent while on this quest, haha. After acquiring enough of these things, I realized that they all sound good. As long as you know what you're doing, there's a certain level of quality you can achieve in your mockups and any "major" library can get you there. There is no need for more libraries until some real quantum leap happens that redefines the whole idea of sampling and/or modelling. And I don't see that happening any time soon.

@phoenixrising4995

Ай бұрын

I can't wait for physical moddeling for all instruments to improve with AI. With OpenAI and ChatGPT I could see an AI generated physically modeled orchestra thing being reality. Than I wouldn't need a beast of an SSD to run them. Video games have the same problem as orchestra libraries in that regard.

Actually VSL ticks a lot of points : you can try libraries, you can resell them, they are useful and not niche at all and they stand time very well (Dimension Strings for example) Only complaints : they are quite expensive and yes, keyswitches (I’m fond of KS but not everyone’s cup of tea). Besides, how’s your Open Stage Control project?

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Interesting!! Yeah I don’t know why I never got into the VSL world. But they REALLY seem to care about their product and not get carried away by library trends. Sounds like they’re worth the money (even if they’re a little expensive). As for my OSC project, I pretty much dropped all touch screens and moved to more stream decks and shortcuts. I realized I need more tactile feedback. Maybe I’ll come back around one day.

Omg Thankyou for saying this out!

I couldn't agree more, and not just about orchestral libraries or movie genre. The same is true all across the board. I limited myself to Omnisphere(+trillian), Falcon, Komplete, Dune3, and EZ Drummer. No more GAS (gear acquisition syndrome),

Hi Brian. This might be off-topic here, but since you know a lot about strings libraries, I thought I would ask my question Anyway. Do you know about a library that would feature full strings patches for live playing, but with a special articulation I’ve been unable to find so far, fast attackss with sustains. Something like what we had on our good old Kurtzweil K1000 if you remember, only with round Robbins more samples and so on. It’s easy to find marcattos and spicattos, but nothing actually gives you this type of attack with infinite sustains. Thanks for coming back to me if you know any. Best regards

New products by Performance Samples still impress me after all these years. I also love how imperfect they sound.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Imperfect is where life and realism lives IMO. And yes, their proof of concept videos for upcoming are very promising!

I got spitfire BBC Core but I find the reverb to wet so one day i'll Upgrade to BBC Professional and I think that will be enough to hold me for a bit.

Great Video! Very Concise and to the point!

I relate to your situation 100% coming from around 2010 as well and I hate it lol great video though man! I think Spitfire were the last group I was impressed by.

Excellent video congrats on this, subscribed :)

10:56. Essential comment ! Myself- I pretty much got everything I needed libraries wise around about 2 years ago. That was the last time I purchased anything (filling in the last gaps in all orchestral sections). The sounds, articulations, realism got pretty much so perfect that IMHO they already reached an apogee of design and sonic demands in the hands of a skilled composer/orchestrator. There’s not much (if anything) one can add to what already existed 2 years ago, so buying “new” products makes zero sense if you’re satisfied with the results you can achieve with what you already have. All it takes now is your own creativity, amount of time (oh yes, it does take time !) you can devote to perfect each and every every line… Careful Hybriding is the key if you want to achieve “your” timber. I doubt if I will ever purchase anything anymore, unless someone creates the way to do your own portamentos between any combination of strings notes (YOUR combinations, with your starting and ending notes, with your tempo etc. NOT the pre-recorded ones with fixed duration and notes).

What I want to see much more often in libraries are patches that recognize my playing style and determine which articulation is most appropriate at the moment, resembling the lively playing of a real musician. There's nothing worse than trying to mimic an organic playing style using key switches or many different tracks.

I was so dissapointed by Spitfire’s BBCSO that I decided that enough is enough: I’m not buying another orchestral library unless it’s based on both physical modelling and intelligent lookahead (which twenty years ago was a thing)

@Gardener7

Ай бұрын

What don't you like about it? I don't own it, but know I only has 2 dynamic layers.

I think orchestral tools always pushes the boundaries. I can't think of a single library I bought from OT that didn't blow my mind.

Great topic! Great video! Do more in this format👏🏻

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Thank you!! This was actually an attempt to do something new. Glad you liked it. 🙏🏻🙌🏻

My go-to is Spitfire: Epic Strings with my modification (of Ostinato) I have called Radio Strings. It simulates a martelè sound that also keeps the iconic reverb of the AIR hall. I'm the kind of guy that sacrifices realism for aggression. Less is more

VSL offer demo/trials, you can sell them, and their support is excellent. Hence I only buy their stuff now. I still use the older VI Cube libs, as they dry as a bone and detailed beyond most modern offerings. Oh, and their Player doesn't have a GIANT knob in the middle or look like a 90's sampler :)

Check the Swam modeling instruments. Physical modeling is getting really good, we may be able to leave the samples soon.

I wonder how the strings built into Logic Pro X compare with Hollywood Strings 1? Has anyone done a side by side comparison? Logic seems to have most of the articulations covered: so I don't see why I should buy another strings library?

@this.is.shashwat

2 күн бұрын

There is a reason nobody talk about logic’s strings. spoiler: they are ass

@AlexWeidmannComposer

Күн бұрын

@@this.is.shashwat Apparently they've got much better in recent years; but I don't have much else to compare them to. The only other string libraries I've used are Muse Sounds, and Music Studio for iPad. Once you start automating the midi ccs to add vibrato, portamento lirico, etc..., the Logic Pro strings sound pretty good to me. I'd like someone to explain exactly how they're inferior?

In terms of orchestral libraries, I believe all you truly need is a solid work horse set of libraries or a singular library. I think what interest me is niche sampling of rare and personal instruments. Experimental hybrid ambient samples. I’ve really been liking what the crow hill company has done so far. Probably my favorite sample library company right now.

@BrofUJu

Ай бұрын

This is how I feel. And then I've filled in from there. Hollywood Brass which is huge, but lacks some low end. I've got another brass library which has way more low end and they're massive together.

@envrie9423

Ай бұрын

@@BrofUJu True, mixing orchestral libraries is essential for me as well. There's different weaknesses for almost every library. I've heard some incredible results when people mix modeled with recorded libraries

For me personally, as someone who has limited time and limited funds, and who isn't even ready to release anything yet, much less make a profit or anything, I think that while getting a library that is "just right" could help boost my track by 1 or 2 percent to the finish line, I have to realize that that 1 or 2 percent might just not be in the budget, time or money wise. I would much rather just buy one or two libraries I am confident in and I feel will work for most of what I want to attempt and then pour my time, money, and soul into that remaining 98% to make it as good as possible. Especially considering the fact that if I spend too much time and effort on finding the perfect sound or patch, it will actually hurt that remaining 98%, the composition, what I actually like and care about, since I won't have any time or energy left for it. That's just my perspective though.

@jameseverett9037

Күн бұрын

It's a very accurate perspective. We forget how limited our time for actual composing is. And by the time you get all the libraries you want, they're obsolete, and better stuff is out. I made a list of all my obsolete libraries, and it was so depressing, even realizing I had never really gotten around to using some of the more expensive ones. Instead, I spent my time earning the money to pay for them, rather than making music. Such a slippery slope for many of us.

Great video here!!

I recorded soundtracks with the LSO and other orchestras, and created soundtracks for several theatrical films using samples only. I spent money on libraries and plugin. But apart from Eastwest, I regret every one I bought, incl. Spitfire and 8Dio. And now, I also hate music.

I can’t believe I heard you for 12 mins. You’re absolutely right!

I believe that the main resource that these companies should be looking for is a way to have these libraries with the same or even better competence, but, mainly, occupying much less space in our SSDs and consuming less RAM and processing power. That would be a huge advance. Physical Modeling as it has a gigantic potential, and SWAM has demonstrated this. Nowadays these libraries are gigantic, they require a huge heap of memory and processing, making it impossible for independent composers to assemble their mockups in order to compete with the big ones in the market.

Weird. When you talked about budgets getting smaller, and deadlines getting shorter... I felt that. See, I'm a CG Animator. And it's fucking brutal for us right now. Everyone wants to exploit us to the moon then immediately fire us. Pixar just had a great purge of employees right as they're promoting Inside Out 2. I'm a working guy with a family, and I'm getting by working for corporate places like Dell and Microsoft. But it's not just us, all us production artists (composers are Absolutely artists in my opinion) are having to compete and learn to work so damn fast, on our toes with fire leaping at us in order to stay in the game. But we do it because we love it (and also that means having to take a massive paycut if I wanted to quit and get a "real job") SO... At least for me... I'm fucking stuck whether I want to be or not. So I gotta learn, quickly and fast, and always change with the times. At least I enjoy that.

Last string library that completely impressed me to buy it without hesitation was Spitfire Appassionata Strings. Yeah, it doesn't have shorts or tremelo, but it didn't stop me from improvising with other libraries that I already had to compliment SA like Albion One.

I just got into collecting orchestral plugins. It goes deeeeeeeeeep 🤯

Incredibly expensive indeed. Most libraries cost more than what they are actually worth, and the fact that i can't ask for a refund most of the time is just another kick in the nuts. Just download vital and make all the sounds yourself. Best alternative.

Man, especially for someone that is beginning in this world, the idea of trying out a library is the best! Like, for someone starting, spending 300, 400, 500€ into a library + Kontakt is a big no no. Thank god for free libraries

Great points altogether. My go-to orchestral library is still EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold which I licensed in 2011. With its wide selection of articulations, a realistic score is very doable. In this brave new world of AI, I, too believe that modeling will replace sampling. Combined with MPE, I'm optimistic about the potential.

The last orchestra that really surprised me was NotePerformer. It's a synth.

I’m satisfied with EW composer cloud ☁️

I mix a lot of high budget orchestral scores. Hollywood Strings and CSS are the only two that even come close to live recordings.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Agreed!

Congratulations for this video!!!!

recorded with 32 microphones? Man... that is so amateur.... these days I am expecting at least 102 mic signals, and for the samples to be recorded in a studio whose floor is still stained by John Lennon's great-grandfather's blood and sweat, because that really does add to the sound of the room. On a serious note, demoing libraries would be a game changer. It is unreasonable, in my opinion, to expect customers to spend hundreds of dollars on a product they have never tried. For my OT's approach of selling you individual instruments and even mic signals is great. For instance, I would definitely like more mic signals for my SS Chamber Strings, but I don't quite have another couple of hundred gigabytes (or however big it is) to get the entire professional version, nor would I want to.

I didn't hear you mention Garritan Orchestral Strings.

I agree with you, it seems like they all try to grab your attention with a new «best ever made , 10 years to make this fantastic library» every month. I own more than a few, but my main library is CSS. I think in overall that native instruments produce some of the most intersting libraries, i know that they collab with a lot of developers, but anyway😊

Agree with this vid so much. For me it's more than just orchestral libraries though. Neural Dsp's amp sims are over saturated and lacking features that their competition caught up to and does better; such as mixing and matching pedals and amps etc. Plus any new amp sim they make is just selling the name. You can use their old products, or suites like Bias amp 2, or tone x, OR Ozone to Eq match their tones perfectly. In the case of Bias amp two; I fiddled with settings until I matched the sounds exactly without eq match. Also if you follow the artists of the Neural sims; you can see that they don't always give you their actual full signature rig all the time. Rabea (my fave of theirs), in real life he's mentioned so many time he uses the Blue Sky reverb (even before the sim was made). That's not thee reverb the sim offers; lol! Not a super big deal; and I think the one they included sounds really nice; but yea... For orchestral libraries the one that opened my eyes was Tokyo scoring strings. It was my dream library to get at the time. And as good as it is; it's nowhere near my go to for strings as I thought it would be. They charge so much for it. Put so much work into it; and won't let us turn off the reverb from that library... So anything you write or use it in has to match that library instead of your composition, ir cover, etc. Where as my friend showwed me Strings of Winter. That I have played with through and through. Winter is much more versatile; and if u don't want it to sound cold and brooding, but light and warm instead- you know what you can do? Turn off the reverb and use your own. Lol. I WISH they had a week or two week free trial to this library. Because of them I don't really consider plugins that don't allow somee sort of trial. Aaand lastly is synth plugins. There are quite a few "last synth you'll ever need" plugins like Omnisphere, Pigments, etc. With enough time patience and know-how there is no need to buy another soft synth if you own one of these. Most newer synths just do new presets of what your ultimate soft synth of choice can do already. Haven't gotten excited to buy a new plugin or library in quite a while- but I view that as a good thing. I feel complete with what I own; and can see how far I've come when using them to achieve whatever sound I want with them.

Good point!

I don't really think orchestral libraries have peaked in the last few years. Most companies are adding nothing new except marketing. For me, Performance Samples is really doing something new.

There's a ceiling to what you can do by buying more timbres, and I think we're pretty close to it. As a hobbyist, I got off the train of buying samples and plugins ages ago and re-embraced chiptunes. The professional composer is in more of a bind since they're regularly asked to make their work sound "realistic" (i.e. expensive) but the toolset they're using for that is an imitation, and it has, since the dawn of MIDI, enforced a certain kind of workflow to pursue realism by doing extra work to cover up all the flaws in the samples. Thus, all the arrangements where the sections are layered with percussive instruments and solo voices are limited to amelodic blasts with no dynamics - Hans Zimmer did it and you can too. I did have thoughts of getting a cheap recorder and playing with that. There's a session instrument for ya.

Pacific Ensemble Strings is what blew me way most recently. It just sounds like that sound and in a mix, it sounds sooooo good.

@BrofUJu

Ай бұрын

600 USD? Holy moly. Will stick with my EW subscription sadly, lol

@5ammy13

Ай бұрын

@@BrofUJu Totally understandable. I got it with Loyalty and Intro and it was like 299 or something, so absolute steal at that price :)

@5ammy13

Ай бұрын

Also, shoutout to another expensive library, Afflatus Strings. Really nice stuff :)

@HieuAnNguyen-qd9oq

Ай бұрын

@@BrofUJu pirate it then

@BrofUJu

Ай бұрын

@AlonsoComposer fair! Way more reasonable. Ill add to the list of sales to watch for

I love the east west hollywood orchestra stuff. But I think, that there can still be done lots of noticeable improvements.

My thoughts exactly! I used to use HS and that was a revolution. But CSS was a revolution as well. Anyway - physical modeling is the way now. And maybe some AI instruments in the future. Or next month maybe...

@SoundPaint is hands down the best!

Its so crazy - had the Miroslav Philharmonik 1 decades ago and the cellos were (personally) the best sounding I ever had for my music (less cinematic music more electronic stuff). I personally do not like the Kontakt Factory Library at all - it all sounds so muddy/ muffled for me. In general it is not pleasing to use Kontakt 7 in general - everything is buggy, slow loading times and often crashes. There are so much outstanding plugins out there e.g. Slate+Ash but the Kontakt is limiting these plugins…😓

great video ... really ... I have felt the same over the past few years ...

Big YES for Hollywood Strings 2 review.

These libraries will take up your SSD storage memory and put a big hole in your wallet. And they're not satisfying to play with the latency they recover if you plan on playing them live. Trust me... I'm very fortunate to have most of a "nest egg" still there after buying like 30 of them on sale... and I gravitate more to synth stuff anyway. BBC symphony orchestra doesn't even have in-tune cellos! It works for horror (I don't mind, and often enjoy, microtonal stuff)... but c'mon, it's supposed to be a one-stop shop library! OT and Spitfire clearly prioritize advertising over developing better plugins that only appealed to me before I bought the full version of Kontakt. Audio software companies have no business developing faulty audio software only kept afloat by the content. These libraries are also a pain to mix, and combining the longs with the staccatos sounds weird. I'm more of a synth/sound design person than a classical/orchestral person anyway, so I could be biased (I've had a lot more fun making crazy wavetable and granular stuff with a sample of a former high school friend's voice I recorded on PhasePlant...) but c'mon... I think these libraries are a poor ROI in general. I have an 8TB SSD on my machine... and only 128GB of free space. And this isn't my only hobby! My main special interest is electronics.

Still use EWQL Plat to this day (low resource usage for level of manipulation and detail) and was a bit sad of no callout of Sonic Implants Symphonic Orchestra in that group lol (is also a fantastic old school collection). Overall (short of performance samples methodology), i would have to say that most of the libraries are often providing conveince more than anything. In a stereo primary world, it becomes basically the "same" in a lot of areas, but the time savings are for sure something to be considered (stating this as someone who has amassed things from basically every company mentioned here), but some have pushed the bar (acousticsamples vwinds or virharmonic bohemian series) in the overall orchestral library market. Absolutely agree with the majority stating here though, it has changed into a new market style than it was in the past for sure.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. I still use EWQL as my main timpani and harp. Something about it just sounds ready out of the box. But then you mention vwinds which I can’t even believe someone achieved that level of realism and playability. The gap between good and bad libraries these days baffles me sometimes.

Im surprised none of these orchestra vsts have made a plugin with an automatable conductor yet...

Soundpaint is pretty innovative actually. But agreed with this video !

Music making is extremly expencive and stressful😂

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

lol!! Where did we go wrong?!?

I’ve taking my first steps from sound designing into composition and this hits the nail on the head. Picked up a competitively priced used license for Komplete 14 CE and I’m now immediately getting marketed a promising 8dio composition bundle for $200. While it seems to fill in a lot of gaps, that’s also good money that could go towards, say, CSS for what seems like a stronger, dedicated workhorse library. This video was a good reminder for me to slow down and do more research before getting carried away with this month’s discount FOMO 😅

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Best advice I could give you is to talk to friends who bought some libraries and see what they think of them and which ones they actually use. Saved me SO much money throughout the years.

@5ammy13

Ай бұрын

the 8Dio bundle is really good value for money if you are into more modern, hybrid scores. If you're looking for more of a complete orchestral package for like film or game scoring, then maybe Spitfire Symphonic Strings right now on 50%?

@ghfjfghjasdfasdf

Ай бұрын

Don’t look at Spitfire Audio then… because all of their Albion libraries are currently half off. 🤓😵‍💫😬

Whats your thoughts on OPUS?

@BrianRivlin

21 күн бұрын

Opus as a player is a step up from Play in terms of UI and load times but I find that I miss the original patches in HS1 in Play that don’t exist anymore in the Opus version. So a little better, and a bit worse. I guess it’s a fair trade off.

@lovelymusicnow4404

21 күн бұрын

@@BrianRivlin interesting. What specific patches or are you talking about like just the overall sound?

@lovelymusicnow4404

21 күн бұрын

@@BrianRivlin also do you know if the re-recorded a new Orchestra for opus? Or is it the same samples just mixed different mixing, scripting, their own ui player etc?

Maybe the solution is for composers to form a union in solidiarity with orchestras? Get studios to pay for the real thing?

As a part time shopaholic I have to say that Spitfire Symphony Orchestra at 280 euros (50% sales) is the best deal. In addition Musio 1 perceptual licence at 200 euros (50% sales every 2-3 months) is a great addition… So with 500 euros you could do what was impossible a few years ago. The WOW factor these days is the price and not the libraries themselves. For me, best purchase I ever made is Vflutes from Acoustic Samples. I also own Vbrass and saxes and I have to say I’m pretty impressed and inspired by the level of performance of these libraries.

Wee correction: Windows XP was released in 2001 (?why do I remember this? Because it’s the only time I switched to windows from Mac - before OSX - because XP gave me a true robust pre-emptive operating system

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Thanks for the correction. In my research I searched for what Windows version was released in 2003 and the result was XP. I guess google got it wrong 😂

I want to try SWAM.

I still use the percussion from EWQLSO daily!

I'm just a hobby musician and as long as that's the case, I would never spend so much money for those libraries. Not because I think they don't deserve it or the product isn't worth that, but I just can't invest so much if I'm not even sure I'll use it that much. So for me personally, the EW subscription is an amazing alternative! I'm still thinking about getting very niche libraries, like Orchestral Tools Grimm or insanitysamples Haunted Strings 2

@BrianRivlin

21 күн бұрын

You raise a good point. These libraries are tools. And the best time to invest in a tool is when it makes sense to buy it. Not when you want a shiny new toy. (Although I am very guilty of the latter 😂).

Neural DSP has a 14-day free trial on all of their plugins and it’s a banger

there’s so much free stuff and like danny elf man said it doesn’t matter what libary you use , because there gonna replace it with a real recorded orchestra at the end and if not that kind of epic score would people care ? so much free stuff now don’t pay

For string sections the best recommendation I can give is: learn to play the violin!!! It will make your tracks waaayyy better! I started 3 years ago and now I'm slowly getting to the point where I can record parts and layer them over my VSTs. And boy it makes a hell of a difference. Even if you're not the greatest player it sounds so much better and more realistic- especially for all shorter articulations and/or sections where you need to switch the articulation a lot. Before I started I often didn't even realize how bad those midi strings can sound when you're not completely sure what you're doing- now I hear it.

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

Yup!! Totally agree. I don’t really play any strings myself, but I do have a violin that I can get passable lines from and layered with good libraries it makes a HUGE difference.

preach!

I just love UVI Soundware's. I don't care if they're "the best" They sound perfect to me and I prefer using Falcon over that weird East/West interface. Also, their word builder for the vocal libraries suck. Man, we're in an age where I can throw a rock at high quality text-to-speech/speech-to-speech services. Just update it, dang it

Does Nativ really have the sound of a Stradivarius violin?

@BrianRivlin

Ай бұрын

They do! And it sounds… ok…? 🤷🏻‍♂️ (Just my opinion)

@petterrong1590

Ай бұрын

​@@BrianRivlin It sounds really bad IMO. Even the Performance Samples freebie from a few years ago sounds way better😅