Rest in peace professor. Thank you for spreading the great wisdom and philosophy that is becoming more rare year by year

@canceresbunny

3 ай бұрын

He died? What a shame. Such a cool dude.

@robertburke9920

Ай бұрын

For a breakthrough understanding of the Book of Job, read the novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Advanced. Good.

Thought I was watching just another lecture on philosophy by Prof Sugrue. Ended up reevaluating my own heart in regards to my secret resentment towards the Lord in the past few years. To those who can, please do pray for me.

@tatumsheppard4669

24 күн бұрын

philosophy was the beginning of my journey with Christ and healing religious trauma. May God heal any wounds or jaded feelings you may have ❤

These lectures are wonderful, Michael. It seems your destiny is to float all the boats a little higher !

@TheAdekrijger

2 жыл бұрын

Like the flood.

This is probably the hardest pill to swallow for many attempting the Christian faith. Ego. Self righteousness; to God no less.

I'm only just 16... but these lectures, from Kant to Kierkegaard, are amazing and have revived in me an interest in philosophy, thought and simply introspection, which has made me so much of a better and happier person. Thank you Prof!!

@GODSSON365247

7 ай бұрын

My favorite is his lecture on Marcus Aurelius, it’s Pure Artwork.

@kellenolsen2767

4 ай бұрын

when i was sixteen i ain't do shit. good on you for educating yourself; god knows it's easier now than it used to be. you live in an era of human history where the answer to any question is (potentially) just one click away. stay humble and stay learning.

@DianaStevens42

11 күн бұрын

@@kellenolsen2767 when I was 16 I was smashing bottles and lighting fires under bridges.

It's a testament to the internet's better angels that lectures like these can be found so easily, legally, and for free. It can be a bit difficult to watch the series in order. But I'll gladly sort through given the rewards.

Theological gem @ 16:40: "Satan is not just the tempter; Satan is the image of Promethean futility of humanism in the sense that it never achieves or reaches or longs for, never gestures, at the divine. It's strictly surface, strictly body, strictly alienated from the divine being."

@DianaStevens42

11 күн бұрын

Rock and roll

The scope, magnitude and depth of his knowledge is truly amazing. And only about 20 thousand subscrbers? It shocks me.

@posthegemony944

Жыл бұрын

Try 95! And in only 8 months

@Hey-jm2hw

Жыл бұрын

Over a hundred now

@borisbarrientos9382

Жыл бұрын

Slightly over 5x the amount in almost a year of you posting this

@garrettfricke4076

Жыл бұрын

106

@phinehasochayi3900

Жыл бұрын

109

I could listen to this lecture every day. Nothing short of fascinating! Bravo!

Sagacity is bestowed on select few. Professor Sugrue you are one of those fortunate few .You are in fact not only professor per excellence , but also the sage of our time. Thank you .

Great lecture! Thanks again

What an incredible education we get from these lectures. Thank you again for posting these!

Dr. Sugrue, Thank you for these brilliant lectures. I have grown greatly in my oratory skills by watching them. Your mannerisms and the way you deliver certain words is efficacious. You're an amazing teacher. My theology, as a seminary student, is constantly being shaped and transformed. My journey toward truth sometimes takes me to weird, often unexpected places. I am grateful that it's taken me here. I am also grateful for the mystery. If you had to label me as one particular "thing," I'd probably go with, Christian Mystic. You kinda fit this genre, so maybe that's why I enjoy your take on the world so much (I also listen to the Idea store). When I first heard you speak about the Judeo-Christian God via lectures like this one I thought, my God, there is hope for theology. I am an amateur theologian/philosopher and I don't really fit neatly into a particular box. I appreciate your ability to be somewhat of a Christian ninja, that breaks down the boxes of people's certitude, only to build them back up with asking the right questions. Most of all though, I appreciate your ability to open up a good "can of worms." You give me hope. Hope that you can be smart and still be Christian. Even if you claim to be a poor version of Alyosha, you're doing a damn good job. Thanks, dude. In Christ, Joshua Beierschmitt

@dr.michaelsugrue

2 жыл бұрын

Melville once wrote that we know of God what oysters know of the sun. He was right, we are as suited to theology as mollusks are to astrophysics. Theology is like pointing a flashlight at the sun so you can see it better.

@shipaskof8371

Жыл бұрын

Try Nietzsche.

@bishaldey5339

Жыл бұрын

@@dr.michaelsugrue Dung Beetles navigate using the Milky Way. Yes we're oysters and theology/science is our hubris but not for these small animals. Think of me as a student raising their hand and saying this. I really enjoy your lectures😘

@braedenhunter6501

Жыл бұрын

@@bishaldey5339 I think perhaps the point here is not necessarily that the dung beetle has the capability to do so, but more so does it possess a genuine comprehension. Yes, we know they use polarized light from the moon and a gradient of lightness to darkness provided by the Milky Way, but does the dung beetle understand these actions as the only nocturnal animal to do so. It is asserted that they take snapshots of stars and remember them. Does this mean they understand what they are doing or could they seek to understand what they are doing?

@user-gl9jd3ih8h

4 ай бұрын

​@@dr.michaelsugrueI think you've been having a few health issues. In any case, I now say a rosary for you every day ...my way of thanking you Michael for your kind and tremendous work. I feel there are so many of us out there that are grateful for these lectures, especially those like me that did not have the opportunity to go to university. Thank you again and God bless you Michael.

If anyone had told me I’d be transfixed by the lectures of a philosophy professor I’d have laughed, yet here I am.

The book of Job is proof that the events that befall us are not always a function of our individual identities but are responses and precursors to processes that effect the entire universe. Sometimes you are a cog in a much larger process.

This is my favorite of all Dr. Sugrue's lectures. I keep returning to it. The Book of Job was never of that much interest to me but after this lecture I've become fascinated by it. Love the work Doc.

@shipaskof8371

Жыл бұрын

Carl Jung also wrote a book Answer to Job

@preciousamaechi5887

10 ай бұрын

My God, in what book?

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

​@@shipaskof8371You're better off reading the commentary of St. Gregory the Great in his Moralia in Job. He does a threefold interpretation of historical, allegorical and moral. It's around 1000 pages though so you need to set aside time for it.

Amazing!

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.”

@RealAmericanStar

2 жыл бұрын

Where them audiobooks at?

He mentions that satan is evil because he knows god already knows if Job is true in his faith, but continues on making a wager so he can make Job suffer just because… but, he fails to notice/mention what that says about god.

@MasalaMan

2 жыл бұрын

But this is an all powerful God that it is his perception that we are small insignificant beings. As such, the matters of life and death are of low importance. If Job were to die too or he passed his tests of faith, I'd bet he reunited with all his family and sheep...that's what I'd be thinking if I was God. There is much more of more value to take from this story and lecture then simply that discrepancy.

@gp-oi5nt

Жыл бұрын

@@MasalaMan You fall into the same trap as the originaler commenter, the whole point of it is that we CANT reason on the level of God. He is outside of our understanding and exists even outside of our moral code. Devil's advocate is correct here, it does say something about God. It says that His authority trumps any notion that us mortals have of Good and Evil. If we are to believe God created all things we must also believe He created evil and its offspring

AWESOME!

Love these lectures excellent

Oh man, I love this topic. I was so excited when I saw the title. Time to watch.

This man is a friend of wisdom, there is no doubt in my mind.

Brilliant lecture. Thank you so much, Sir!

I wish I had these when I did my divinity class in high school. Thank you Dr Sugrue!

Brilliant lecture! Inspiring me illuminating. So much to ponder and take to heart. I look forward to hearing the lecture on Kierkegaard.

Thank you 🙏🏼

Thanks Sir.

His academic cradle is on point.

Wow, the treatment of Faith and Reason is genius!!!

I don’t know how I got here but I am so glad that I did. Listening to discussions like this rescued me from the dryness of engineering. This guy is undoubtedly one of the best lecturer in this platform.

Is there any way to get the missing lectures uploaded? I only found lecture 1 of this part of the series... Thank you for uploading these, an honorable and gifted teacher is a gift to the world.

@prod-white-noise

2 жыл бұрын

here’s the playlist i’m using kzread.info/head/PLWUJzq4Xl33kxEesoegdqtT-YvtUxnZ21

Cannot appreciate how much your courses mean to me. I'm reading The Republic now.

Thank you so much

Dear professor, you have a brilliant mind granted to you by One, Who’s Name you mentioning

Again simply wonderful. The philosophy of resignation in biblical world seems to correspond to the discipline of suffering in Buddhism.

God bless you and blessed in God.

this man radiate knowledge

Thank you

Read the Testament of Job if you want the full story, it's all the more amazing.

I'm in love ...with philosophy! Michael is amazing. What a legacy.

Listening to this and to your other Keerkergard lecture from a muslim perspective, it resonates perfectly with the same wording we have: "islam" = meaning in arabic you literally "resignate" to god's will. 1. No one truly has a merit in god's view, no matter how righteous they are. It is only, *only*, by god's grace that we are granted absolution. 2. No one really understands god. In particular, we must quit thinking in the frame of "god is good, therefore only good must spring from every single thing god makes" if we ought to take that leap of faith. No one can explain sickness, war, death or any of the darker atrocities that some of us have to endure. The most "correct" way of taking this leap of faith is by resignation ~ islam ~ or maybe there is another wording from our jewish/christian friends. Thank you again professor, for putting some of your valuable insight into a story that has always puzzled me for years. Thank you sincerely.

@dr.michaelsugrue

Жыл бұрын

God bless you. As Coltrane says in the liner notes to A Love Supreme, "May God help and strengthen all men in every good endeavor". There is a wonderful line from the era of the American Revolution. One of the Adams boys, I forget if it was John or Samuel, said "I am no bigot. I will pray with any man of virtue and piety whatsoever." Inshallah, more will embrace this. Respect.

I really enjoyed Jordan Petersons maps of meaning lectures but I can already tell these are going to be my new favorites to listen to. Can't wait to dive into the rest.

Powerful

Thank you for this lecture! I remember reading the book of Job after HS and hated him, but I didn't remember why and listening your retelling reminded that I still hate this story but still a compelling one.

I have heard many sermons on Job! There are such great additional insights i am gleaning from this secular treatment! BTW - the Minister who has by far the most penetrating insight into Job to date is Timothy Keller.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

LOL no way would some Protestant would understand Scripture like the Church Fathers. The most comprehensive and penetrating commentary to date on Job is St. Gregory the Dialogist's Moralia on Job where he gives a threefold interpretation of historical, allegorical and moral. It's around 1000 pages long.

You are a fantastic educator and I’m eager to learn as much as possible

@elsoil3387

2 жыл бұрын

@@chadradwell2593 Which is useless if you want to watch them sequentially. An ordered playlist would definitely be good.

@mrmotl1

2 жыл бұрын

@@elsoil3387 learn to let God in your inner heart guide you and see what your focus brings your attention to. I understand your frustration, but simply complaining about it does nothing beneficial for anyone. Sometime there is no order just try to string things together in a timely manner and allow your inner guide to decide the rest, it will help you learn to follow what you should be following in the first place.

@allyourbase888

Жыл бұрын

Here is a playlist for the Bible kzread.info/head/PLYG74ux2mEaOBzXGgF2LxozzYlKNxfZwI

Live long and prosper

WOW...now that's some Twister!!!

I think that this lecture justified Meister Eckhart's thoughts on prayer, as he argued that prayer is unnecessary because it can be seen as an attempt to manipulate God's will by asking for personal favors. If Job had prayed for the torment to stop, he would still be left questioning the fairness of God's judgment. once again fantastic lecturer Mr. Sugrue

Immense.

Job is a very different and untypical book from the 24 books of the Hebrew Bible. Usually in the other books, the prophets warn, and explain God's actions, and explain the rational, and freedom of choice and the results of the choice. All books show that there is a rational and linkage between man's deeds and the results.

The videos are first class, thank you for uploading them. Does Dr Surgrue have any other videos about Shakespeare excluding the one or two already uploaded? Would love to hear his analysis of Macbeth, Hamlet, Othello etc.

Jung didn’t think Yahweh’s answer was satisfactory either, so he wrote a book called “Answer to Job” which is very compelling.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

St. Gregory the Dialogist's Moralia in Job is better.

I’m a Muslim, and even albeit our stories of the prophets don’t always perfectly align; for the most part they do, and I immensely benefit & enjoy these lectures. God bless you Micheal !

@SaifAli-qw3zx

3 ай бұрын

Because they were redacted later and from all the previous scriptures

You Do Not Shake Your Fist At God. 💯❤️🔥

This is lecture 4 of part 1

No easy solution 0:55 Polytheism: who is to blame? One of the Gods 1:54 Harry Truman “The Buck Stops Here.” 2:33 It’s only a Monotheism Problem 3:20 The gap between Man and Divine 5:33 Satan, how? *The Story of Job* 6:01 Job 7:48 Wealthy man has lots of goats God’s blessing is long life 8:49 Satan and God talk to each other? 10:22 Go and Test Job 11:25 Sheep killed, Family killed God, why do you send me these afflictions? 12:15 My thoughts are not Your thoughts 12:40 Mrs Job 14:26 Inflict him with more pain Job; bears it Knows his position and God’s place 15:55 Futile Torture 16:38 Strictly Surface 17:42 Job’s Friends 3 Theologians Miltonic Theologians Prophets 20:04 Justifying Themselves Infliction = wickedness 21:42 3 22:04 Liar Not a Liar 22:38 Family Sin 23:16 Ignorant Sin 23:41 God knows, Humans don’t 25:25 Faith 27:10 Elaiju Listens listens listens Self-restraint 28:38 Accept what God sends you 30:11 Internal Pride, Hubris, Self-Satisfaction 32:26 Don’t disagree with God 33:36 Speaking out of the Whirlwind, man put in his place Out of Moral Chaos 35:50 who do you think you are? 36:57 Providence works, let it 38:00 God has his reasons, beyond all understanding of Man 39:16 God knows, don’t try to justify 40:33 God will give you pleasure or pain, it’s all in his Loving Goodness 41:36 God will let us know if he wants to

The Book of Job is like a novel from 1,000 BCE

Hello, I'm Nic and I want to comment two things real quick that I hope you could shed some of your wisdom on and comment how the book of Job relates to these ideas. If you don't respond I hope you just know that your videos are excellent and a great tool as it is so incredibly interesting. thank you so much for giving us this resource! While I do like all of the points made from you in the book of Job, I was wonderings how practical the book of Job is through the Christian perspective. While the idea that we simply do not know why Yahweh does what they do is appealing on paper as it does solve a question that we do not know the answer to, I cannot see it being used outside of paper. For example, if someone is going through the stages of grief I can't imagine anyone actually taking solace in the idea that the reason their loved one died was because of the will of God, something that they will never know. It doesn't work as it goes against the idea that God loves you. Someone in a state of mental anguish might think "If he loves you so much, why is he causing me this much pain". And they have a point, why is a God that is clearly so loving causing such pain? While the idea that we do not know why Yahweh does what they do can again be used to argue, it goes against all of the love that you feel from God on a daily basis, and one must ask why is it here in this that God's love is so difficult to explain? Another comment I have is actually one of my religious' teacher's explanations on why we suffer. It comes from the book "When Bad things happen to Good People" by Harold S. Kushner and it follows a rabbi after his son died at 14 years old of a uncurable disease and to sum up on of his points, he says how God gave humanity free will and humanity does what they want with that free will, whether that is for good or for evil. He also created this world with the blessings and the tragedies of mother nature that came with it. He explains that God is in total control of Humanity, but chooses to not step in as to not go against his previous creations and will. This directly goes against the book of Job's explanation of suffering as God is in complete control throughout the entirety of Job's suffering and I am wondering what you think about this idea? Sorry for the long response, again thank you so much for your videos, they are amazing and I hope you have a good one!

It’s refreshing to see a clear defense of faith as derivative of the resignation that God, his mind and plans are inscrutable, unknowable, a mystery. This clarification evinces a “virtue” constructed on ignorance.

Great series, I just finished watching lecture 1 and I can’t seem to find lecture 2. This is the next video on the playlist. Can anyone help?

I hope you do a single video of the culmination of your knowledge and your own true personal beliefs in regards to the story of man and it’s relation to its reality

@dr.michaelsugrue

2 жыл бұрын

I don't have the stamina anymore, but we have located two 45 minute lectures which recorded in 1992 that form one big lecture. It is a review of the whole Western tradition. I have no idea what my personal beliefs are of interest to anybody, these lectures are not about me. I just try to focus my mind, minimize resistance, and serve as a human superconductor for Something Else.

@joshbeierschmitt4820

2 жыл бұрын

I hope you finish your book on human civilization.

@optimusprimum

2 жыл бұрын

@@dr.michaelsugrue You - are what has made these lectures. But I can understand and respect that. I too try to be a better man for The Energy that fuels this process.

@JosephusAurelius

Жыл бұрын

@@dr.michaelsugrue In my humble perspective, it would be interesting to get a glimpse of what you believe through all that you learned. For instance, through your talk about Marcus Aurelius, I try to follow the Stoic way of teaching as best as possible

1. Faith become virtue in religion 2. God's israel is Yahweh Grateful ❤

\very good

The begging of wisdom

Does anyone have the correct order to watch this lecture series in? This lecture is #4, but I can't find 2 or 3 and the playlist I'm watching lists this as the 2nd lecture.

The best biblical sermon I've ever heard 😂 If I had heard this exposition of the bible as a teenager I could've avoided a lot of misery. Mostly misery inflicted by myself and other theocrats 😂😂😂

Professor, any response to Carl Jung's Answer to Job? His position is that Yaweh is in an unconscious state that allows himself to be hoodwinked by Satan, and that Job represents a pivotal moment for Yaweh in his quest to enter the world as a man.

@dr.michaelsugrue

9 ай бұрын

I read this book in an earlier century but I remember Jung's work as being stimulating but decidedly uneven. I much prefer Mircea Eliade for the history of religion. There are sometimes unexpected insights in Jung, again it is somewhat like the experience of reading Freud. There are in Jung, as with Freud, a whole collection of posited beliefs that range from the improbable to the bizarre which serve as a Praetorian guard for their more fertile and coherent and serious speculations. I have nothing in the way of theological expertise. I believe in God but I'm skeptical of even the possibility of theology, as Job ends up. Melville once wrote that "We know of God what oysters know of the sun" which I believe well said. It is conceivable that mollusks can distinguish between day and night and it is possible for people to see the difference between light and dark, the sacred and the profane, but beyond that minimal, vanishingly small crumb of religious apprehension, human cognitive abilities are as suited to theology as those of mollusks are to astrophysics. "Job" is not a question and so it does not require an "answer". Only a fool thinks he can shuck God's adamantly closed oysters. If memory serves it is chapter 26 where Job puts his hand over his mouth and he finds out that the beginning of wisdom is not fear of the Lord but learning to keep your mouth shut, which is profound wisdom. Jung does not learn the lesson that Job was taught and he attempts instead to match with with YHWH and become the fourth of Job's "friends" who, like Milton, pretended that they knew how to justify God's ways to man, which is blasphemous Greek hybris. YHWH is unique, omniscient, omnipotent, and good, but He does not reveal Himself as such all at once. There are many things said about divinity, but I have never heard of any monotheism treating God as lacking intentions and will, so YHWH's unconscious mental properties (apparently He is defective and lacks self understanding which can be supplied by Jung) seem to me like the round properties of squares, there is nothing to talk about. As Plato pointed out, it makes no sense for a monotheistic god to undergo change. If the Form of the Good is completely Good, then any change is deterioration, but if the Form of the Good is not completely good and needs improvement then is not the Form of the Good. Jung's YHWH sounds much more like the gnostic Demiurge [an imperfect gullible creator outwitted by his own creation in which a Satan vindicates Pelagian self liberation which makes the Incarnation superfluous] than YHWH. God wants nothing because He lacks nothing but God loves what is good and right. A monotheistic God is necessarily a mind, but also necessarily not a mind that needs help from Satan or German psychologists.

I agree with a lot of it, however it's not "deserve" it's what we "need" because Job would not have known his pride, if it were not for the situation, the point of it was to bring the darkness within us into light, there's also symbol of Jesus within the story of Job, which those symbols would not have been shown if this would not happen

He mentions Job’s philosophy is quite different from the Greek philosophy but I’m curious about the similarities between Job and Marcus Aurelius. Seems to me the only difference in their behavior was that one is motivated by faith and the other reason?

@thomasbarber7739

11 ай бұрын

"Only"?

Thank God Job never needed a job. That would have been confusing.

I sometimes like to think that God comes as the Son to replay Job in a way.

5:01 “Satan is there! The devil, the tempter! The problem is, before we even get to the story: “what is Satan doing there!?” Why is it that he converses with Yahweh, how is it that Yahweh and Satan seem to be on such good terms! Satan would seem then, not yet to be entirely the personification of evil? A tempter? A seducer? But he somehow seems connected with God!? 😮 (I had to listen to this 10 times, it was so entertaining!)

I've never heard of this interpretation before -- that Job's sin was pride. Thanks for sharing that. I've always liked Job's wife's remark: "Curse God and die." The woman is tempting him like Eve -- like Eve had been tempted by Satan in the garden. Again it all stems from pride. I don't know the Book well enough to know if Job feels pride or how that is expressed. If Job was just simply recounting -- telling the truth -- that he did not break any laws then he seems to be innocent. I'm curious if Job had been told that pride is a sin. And I'm curious to know if the Devil tried to cheat by paying off Job's wife to say what she did? She is Promethean and full of human pride. Perhaps she is Greek. But I like her remark for her courage in the face of impending ignorance and doom. Women have such a hard time in the OT and she seems to see the apparent injustice of what was happening to Job. But she acts nobly. And what did the Devil win in his bet?

@KittysDawn

Жыл бұрын

Unless I'm mistaken, the story itself takes time out to display how much Job loved the way he was treated by the town and everyone and even travelers. It goes on at length about it. This may be what Job truly misses the most, and may be the story's intended hint. It plays well in to the conclusion of this video. It's a subtle trap open to those wading deep in the faith. That sense of pride in being above others. Having the notion of approval not only by others but a false notion of our approval by God. Pride is the deadliest sin for a reason, and satan would truly delight most by making a man's own faith in to a sin. Such as he was delighted in bringing Job low through the very same. Given this, it might be contender for one of the most important OT stories, and it's certainly one a frightening number of us struggle with. Though I think we shouldn't miss the subtle message of hope tucked in. Job stuck through it all the way, once admonished by God directly, and was eventually restored to several times what he had before. That includes an increase in the amount of charity and compassion he was able to show others. Maybe it's presumptuous of me as a sinner too, but sometimes God doesn't give us what we want because he wishes to give us better. Job may have gotten a couple good wacks to the knees with a bat precisely because God knew Job's righteousness could increase and become the kind of genuine that is beyond question or threat by the likes of Satan's games. God will see us through to the end if we do not turn our backs on Him. But the core of this video's lesson loops back around. I am aware many would still call God cruel for an "ends justify the means" approach (as humans understand such a thing). Yet if we disagree with God's methods, we are merely wrong.

@countvlad8845

Жыл бұрын

@@KittysDawn I agree that sometimes we don't get what we want and that it is a sign that it wasn't really meant for us. As you say, God knows there are better things in store... or that if we had got what we wanted it would have hurt us. Success can be like that in the sense if you, for example, pine to be a rock star, that life can drag you down into unspeakable drug addiction, stress, temptations, etc. It becomes a hellish existence despite the glamour. But the heart can pine over some of the most wicked and nonsensible things. And it again comes down to pride. So be thankful for the gifts you have and let the trapping fall by the wayside. (that's what I keep telling myself in regard to music)

@shipaskof8371

Жыл бұрын

Ayasee migh do well to read Aesops fable re sour grapes and fox

💯

In fact, those piecing together the Book of Job may have inadvently let in a questioning ,protesting intelligent man who wants his rights. A shining example of man who respects Human Rights. What do you say?

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

Human rights don't exist.

If Yeweh is all-knowing,then why does him need to wager with Satan, Why does Job need to be tested ?

@nickchavez720

2 жыл бұрын

Great question, the book of Job is not meant to be taken as an actual event; as opposed to other books in the bible. Rather it is what is called wisdom literature, its a poem meant to explore complictaed ideas. In this case to explain why bad things happen to good people; the answer being that sometimes in life we have no idea why they happen. And that is ok.

@pouyathedestroya9095

2 жыл бұрын

@@nickchavez720 It's definitely not ok if you truly believe there is a loving and omnipotent/omniscient god that exists

@AtanasNenov

2 жыл бұрын

That's the takeaway from the whole story, though, isn't it. Yhw isn't actually testing Job, he's punishing him right from the get-go, knowing in advance of his pride and his being presumptuous that he could judge better than god if he deserves a punishment or not.

These lectures were pivotal in bringing me back to practicing Catholicism. Thank you!

@markrossow6303

2 жыл бұрын

( Episcopalian here also liking them -- tried the one on numerology in Gospel According to John ? )

@CelestialWoodway

2 жыл бұрын

God is imaginary.

@ExpiditionWild

2 жыл бұрын

@@CelestialWoodway You seem insecure about this

@australopithecusafarensis5386

Жыл бұрын

@@CelestialWoodway He’s not though, He personally revealed Himself to me

@dannyhodorowski5847

4 ай бұрын

@@australopithecusafarensis5386Delusions often look like reality.

NOW I KNOW WHERE MY PHILOSOPHY PROFFESSOR'S AUDIO LECTURES COME FROM!!!!!! EUREKA!!!!

Realize… there is a breakthrough understanding of the Book of Job, read the novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Advanced and Good.

The only way the narrative “works” is if it concludes that bad things do happen to good people for no justification or reason, and also if “God” and “Devil” are simply choices within Job’s own psyche to determine the remainder of his broken life. The wife’s interpretation of the universe is also correct- why should anyone forgive misfortune so crudely assigned? Admit defeat in your loyalty to what was taken! No shame in that. Curse any “God” that would allow for this. Job’s faith/hope in continued living is a choice, and is seen as the more admirable, “Godly” action despite his circumstances. Maybe the secondary conclusion is that a fully good person will never actively turn to evil actions oneself- the Socratic notion that it is better to suffer evil than commit it. Okay, sure. But deep down we know that it’s not humanly honest to pretend that we don’t all have a breaking point, or that we should simply forgive the wrongs assigned us. The ending is always, always lame- Job should never be content replacing his family with a random new one. Same problem with Jesus-he shouldn’t magically resurrect to fix everything over one weekend, resolve everything perfectly with a happy bounce in his step. Ridiculous. The lesson is that life is necessarily painful, that no tragedies get to be fixed, but that one can live a lilted, mostly defeated life that doesn’t add more evil where a world presents it in abundance. The true “God” moment is remaining innocent when condemned as guilty, rather than join the savage world of cruelty to oneself or others (if it’s even possible). Hence, Job becomes the true God of the story, and God is just another tempting Devil. The question remains: when oppressed by a villain, why submit to being a pushover? Justice still requires the defeat of evil, not merely the acceptance of it. Job as God does the universe no good if the remainder of existence is terrible.. No man is an island, nor should God be one, either

epic

Seamless extemporaneous exposition. No “um” or “uh”. Each of the doctors presentations are profound and perfectly paced. What a teacher.🙌

Job's 4th friend wrote the story.

This is what occurred to me after listening to this lecture numerous times: At the end God visits Job and basically says how can you question me, do you know how to make mountains, i do etc etc. meaning that questioning the actions of God is a foolish thing as no human can ever understand God. In other words, be humble, worship me and leave everything else alone because you will never understand it, its foolish and arrogant. Imagine a human trying to understand God. Which leads me to the point I'm trying to make. Doesn't the lessons from Job make both the study of scripture and scripture itself superfluous. Since no one understands anything about God, and to do so is arrogant, when what you are supposed to be doing is just believing and worshiping him, everything else is a distraction. Yet the most religious of people study and more importantly, interpret scripture, and teach others what God wants, yet no one really knows. Since what you are supposed to do is worship him and believe in him, not study him or try to interpret what he wants as that is a distraction and you will never find out anyway and any conclusions you come to just tries to understand something that not understandable. I am probably not explaining myself precisely enough, but hopefully you get the point i'm trying to make.

@cloudthekell

Жыл бұрын

I get your point friend but the point of religiosity (at least for Christianity) is not to understand God through theology but to know him and connect to him through such conduits. God is inconcevable to us yet we still try to have a relationship with him because he is our creator. Hopefully this perspective helps.

@theignorantintellectual

Жыл бұрын

@CloudTheKell Yes that is the point I was making, everything other than a personal relationship with God is just semantics and a distraction. The book of Job has an irony that is lost on most people I talk with.

@dannyhodorowski5847

4 ай бұрын

“Worship me. I bested a big sea serpent that I also made. Did you do that, Job? I don’t think so.” Yahweh’s such a petulant child in this story.

@ElonMuskrat-my8jy

Ай бұрын

​@@dannyhodorowski5847Your blasphemy is like a pathetic child whining about getting spanked for misbehavior.

So those believe in Yeweh must not be able to be rational and be able to reason, to be good by himself. They must total servants

Yes ive met plenty of jobs "comforters"

What about the convening?

What year was this filmed?

And hence the difference between philosophy and religion

13:43 "Double or nothing" 😂😂

I am not so sure that jews and catholics or even orthodox Christians would accept this heavily protestant interpretation.

Rip ❤️

Actually it is not true that Job at any point displays pride in judging God's treatment of him. His repeated prayer, however insistent and demanding he might appear, is for understanding, to know the reason for his suffering. This is not pride, it is not hubris, it is prayer. 🙏

Top lectures,one of the best orators i have ever listened. I think also Jordan Peterson was influenced by these lectures

@dannyhodorowski5847

4 ай бұрын

Your brain will rot listening to JP. I hope you’ve grown out of it.

5:00 what translation are you going by? In the Russian Orthodox Bible it's God's First Angel that wants to test Job's faith. No Satan anywhere until Jesus accuses Jews of worshipping Satan.

when are these from?

@sunlord6165

2 жыл бұрын

@Harry Moorehouse thx

The argument goes that God is inscrutable, his judgment beyond human understanding, but that this is God's cosmos, and we mortals, though we are part of the drama, are radically unequipped to plumb God's motives. As mere creatures, we are in no position to advise or even complain to the creator. And starting around 38:28, Professor Sugrue says: "[the point of the book of Job] is to force you into an absolute and radical position of faith, which is a moral virtue unique to the tradition of Western monotheism, or certainly unique in its intensity--the Greeks would find this rather fanatical, rather excessive." I know much less about the Greeks than Dr. Sugrue, whom I admire and very much appreciate, but I think the Stoic (first Greek then Roman) conception of man's relationship with God/Logos/Providence/Nature is nearly identical to the position sketched out above--from the assurances in Cleanthes' "Hymn to Zeus" that, despite how things might look, the deity is ruling the cosmos justly, to the many calls in the later Roman Stoics for us to put our trust in divine providence and accept (and even embrace) the fate apportioned to us. I understand the Stoic deity is not the Abrahamic God, but neither are the two all that far apart, particularly when it comes to how they're running the show and man's relative place in the scheme of things. What is the following statement from Marcus Aurelius but a declaration of faith in the providential cosmos?: "Everything suits me that suits your designs, O my universe. Nothing is too early or too late for me that is in your own good time. All is fruit for me that your seasons bring, O nature. All proceeds from you, all subsists in you, and to you all things return." (Meditations 4.23) THANK YOU for putting these lectures on youtube. It's such a tremendous resource. I hope you are doing OK.

Steve Jobs could note history by the computer.