5 million hours is roughly 570.7 years, if anyone wonders

@jayjake

6 ай бұрын

enough for pihole

@KC-xb1bu

5 ай бұрын

Nah man I was looking for at least 10,000 years in 16k 480 hertz

@sirrandomguyrg182

3 ай бұрын

Nope, 570.4 years

I’ve found great success with San Disk and Samsung Pro Endurance cards. Mostly designed for dashcams they are cheap and I’ve had 5 Pi’s running for years without a single failure. As of this year I also log to ram instead and flush to the card every 5-10 seconds.

@OnnieKoski

7 ай бұрын

Actually just got one of the Pro Endurance cards myself. I’m glad they’re worth it 😊

Most people also don't properly configure their Pi for best reliability. By default an OS writes a lot of data to the main disk, log files for example. By making the SD read-only, and making sure logs stay in memory, you'll make your system last a whole lot longer

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, unfortunately, that part is not emphasized enough!

Got tired of SD cards, switched to Orange PI 5 on M.2 SSD and other mini PCs and never looked back. Anyway thanks for sharing the struggle and how to overcome it 👍🏻

@jonmayer

7 ай бұрын

I too got tired on SD cards and just boot Pi's from USB to SATA converters. So much faster too.

Having just spent far too much time RMA’ing Samsung Micro SD cards, this video is a happy find!

Had the same issue, replaced over 5 SD cards for my Pi-Hole and around 2 for OctoPi. Currently going strong with Kingston branded micro SD cards. Thanks for sharing, i will upgrade if necessary.

@bern047

9 ай бұрын

Did you get free replacements from the manufacturer, I did with from Sandisk lifetime warranty

@metalmikecode

9 ай бұрын

@@bern047 i did not bother with it. Thanks for reminding me though!

@mk500

8 ай бұрын

I recently had a lightly used Kingston Canvas 64GB die on me. It seems to happen to all the brands.

@metalmikecode

8 ай бұрын

@@mk500 Damn, looks like I'm looking forward to another crash 🤣

@Kalvinjj

7 ай бұрын

Good call for action for me to make a proper full image of the OctoPi card at my work printer instead of having to deal with full reconfiguration when it eventually kicks the bucket.

I was already aware of industrial grade SD cards and their advantages but couldn't easily get hold of one. I therefore used a Sandisk card in my Pi 4 server but took the precaution of running log2ram to try and avoid all those pesky small writes that seem to be the main cause of failures. So far two and a half years without a problem.

@chillnacho

5 ай бұрын

Wow, thanks for making me aware of this utility. I had no idea this existed.

Very interesting, I too was unaware of industrial grade SD cards.

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! Glad you found it useful!

hi Tomaz, just stumbling upon your channel as I'm researching which sd card would be great to chuck in my raspberry pi for a cheeky home server. thanks for the enlightening video. would you recommend other non-industrial-grade sd cards that would be more reliable than sandisk ones? =x i'm gonna buy a sandisk one lol

Thank you for sharing. I will pass your ideas to my non-believer friends. It is good to know that industrial-strength SD cards are available.

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

Sounds good! Thanks!

If you installed Armbian on a standard SD card, or if you setup overlayfs with a standard raspberry pi OS install, it should last way longer. The former uses a lot of hacks to put whatever's writable on RAM disks, typically variants of tmpfs. The latter does something like it - mirror the existing install to a whole ramdisk, but then making upgrades a bit harder.

is class 10 micro sd card better for use on pi5 ? i m using pi5 for product , so i expect class 10 micro sd card wouldlast longer

I had 3 SanDisk 64GB Ultras just like the one photographed on your video fail in a Gentoo Linux image using the btrfs ("better") file system. The disk simply locked up and became read-only. I posted to the btrfs DEV mailing list and complained and quickly got a response from a lead architect at Western Digital. I had used SanDisk 32 GB (white & gray) successfully before with no problems and I just assumed the most recent release would be better. When 3 of the disks exhibited the same failures in the same amount of time, I knew this was not just an exception. After several weeks, SanDisk replaced 5 of my disks with later models of 128 GB (which I did not need) stating the 64 GB model was no longer available. I suspect that "batch", e.g. the 64 GB, had problems and has been withdrawn from commerce. You and I shared the dismay of encountering a bad batch. Lessons learned: newer is not necessarily better or reliable. For mission critical applications, e.g. 24/7 server, stick with proven SDs from reliable manufacturers. Even reliable manufacturers can release problematic models.

Interesting... I did the same dns thing with a years old sd from one of my phones and a Raspi4 and it has no signs of failure at all. Maybe what you need to do is stop the logging (pihole logs a lot, that could kill the card) which is like, great for privacy too, or redirect it to a network device, somehow. I'm way too cheap so I won't get industrial cards for sure. I would've tried USB boot tho, maybe with a small ssd

I use cheap Sandisk microSD card in my Rpi4bs and I never had a problem. Also I use pihole, Kodi...and no problem with the cards. They are in use for at least 3 years...bought on Aliexpress.

Ah the Pi SD-Card reliability is one of those reasons that i use a flea market FritzBox with OpenWRT for these sorts of things. I'll have to figure something else out for my projects. Some ways to make most of the filesystem readonly, maybe that shall suffice to stop killing SD cards. Do SD-Cards parse FAT32/exFAT for the purpose of wear levelling, since they don't support TRIM? Maybe it makes sense to keep most of the modified files on the FAT partition?

@tomazzaman

9 ай бұрын

I actually "retired" my ISP-provided Fritzbox for a custom SuperMicro server :) I have no idea whether it's even possible to make most of the OS read-only. I think that alone would be a huge undertaking in itself and unless you really enjoy the process, I'd still go for a more expensive microSD card.

You can try limiting number of writes to an SD card in order to make it survive longer. That's a topic for an entire video and requires deeper OS knowledge but you could mention it.

I’m in the process of standing up a pxe boot server as soon as some parts arive

I have the old Scandisk card in a digital Camera. I have one in a portable radio with MP3's of my old music library that used to be on CD's. It is still operational. As for Rasbery Pi people are going into Solid State or USB storage even M.2 Just use a Micro SD with the OS and store it somewhere safe to reinstall OS. And run OS on more stable media. Just alter boot code to make it boot via alternate location.

The oldest SD card in my possession is a Nokia branded one that came preinstalled with a Nokia Smartphone I purchased in 2010 which is 4 GB capacity and still works today.

The life extending practice I use is log2ram which has log files written to ram and only written to disk on clean shutdown. I don't care if it loses the logs in a crash so that's not an issue for me. Ran a pi 24/7 for 6 years before SD failure. Of course I stated with a good SD card so low cost ones may not perform as well. Also SanDisk makes high endurance cards which get good reviews for life time writes. The reviewer thinks it has 2 level recording instead of the tri level typical in other SD cards. However, this is no documentation on number of levels by the mfr.

FWIW, while the industrial spec cards are the epitome, ‘high endurance’ cards aren’t that far off and are far more affordable

Regular microSD cards use bottom of the barrel flash memory, it simply won't survive regular abuse. Perhaps try one of those full size SD to microSD adapters? Those with the ribbon cable, that way you could at least use a proper sized SD card which, rumor has it, has a bit more endurance.

you can do usb boot..

SanDisk does make an industrial micro SD card that's 16GB.

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Is it SLC?

@ShinyTechThings

7 ай бұрын

@@tomazzaman No it's MLC but they classify it as industrial grade adn that's as big as it gets from them right now.

Honestly I'm just using a nvme or SATA SSD hooked by usb. It is reliable,easy to find and cheap.

Maybe a strange question: why didn't you switch over to a ssd instead of a sd-card?

@tomazzaman

8 ай бұрын

Tried, had some issues with unstability, which I LATER learned was due to bad (weak) power delivery.

@apveening

7 ай бұрын

@@tomazzaman Bad power is known to kill SD cards. Even cheap, low quality SD cards function a lot longer on a good power supply than high end SD cards on a bad power supply.

I need a 128gb for for my helium rak miner but i need a v30 or higher? what do set?

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

Not sure I understand. Set what? I think majority of consumer MicroSD cards are V30.

2:05 Call me crazy but I almost think that's the best part of using an SD card for a raspberry pi. I have a pie four running open WRT right now and I just made a backup of the first fully functioning working version I got. So if the SD card in it right now fails it's literally under a minute to pull out the card and The backup in. Then when you get a second make a backup of that one and you always be ready. Heck they're so cheap get a pack of five of them have a few backups 😂

@tomazzaman

8 ай бұрын

Well, since you put it like that… :) The only problem with this approach is that my wife doesn’t know how to replace it, so if I weren’t home when it died,… Let’s just say it wouldn’t sit well with her hahaha

I got a raspberry pi I’m popping some websites I will be self hosting (low traffic) Will I be okay with regular sd card or need something special?!

@tomazzaman

26 күн бұрын

You should be fine, reading from the card is not what wears it off.

ive only had two scan disk mico sd die. One has been running for 4 years with PiHole on it

I mount a usb flash key and log out to that to minimize the writes to the sd, my pi-hole has been error free for three years now and counting.

or you just buy a nvme with adapter for pi?

Thank you for sharing! May I know how you like the SAMSUNG FIT Plus 3.1 USB Flash Drive as a substitute for the microSD?

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

I use it as an additional storage, but wouldn’t use it for operating system. It also uses a relatively cheap flash that will not endure a lot of writing for long.

@relishxylitol

6 ай бұрын

Thank you. Also, do you mind sharing with me what you do with Rasberry Pi? @@tomazzaman

I was extremely surprised you paid so much for a 4GB card. We use Industrial cards for years now without any issues. In our case: Kingston Industrial 32GB. They are designed with a lifetime of 1920TBW with wear-leveling, 30.000 program/erase cycles and is optimized for long life applications...

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, this one was recommended to me and I was just so sick and tired that I went ahead and just bought it. :)

You can get 32GB industrial cards with pSLC memory for 30 bucks. I got one for my Pi 5.

It does have lifetime warranty though... And it's made for high speed photography or videography... You need to use an sd card labeled as "High Endurance SDC"

I've used SanDisk for photography and RPi's for years without much problems. The ones in the RPi's will die after approx 12-18 months, and it comes down to number of writes. That is just how it is.

What about WD Purple micro-SD cards? they are suitable for large/continuous load. and have a HIGH TBW

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Not a fan of WD after the bull**** they pulled a while ago by misleading their customers.

At 60EUR, an ssd connected via USB makes more sense for most people. Also stopping log from constantly writing to the ssd/micro sd also helps with life span greatly.

RPis are not really suitable for mission critical stuff, and once start adding to the cos by buying more expensive parts that plug into/onto it like fancy sd cards or m.2 hats with ssds, you're better of buying some old office mini pc from dell hp or lenovo (size of a book). Those you can buy used for under 100 euro and will come with 8GB of RAM, few times faster CPU than what RPi5 has got, and a lot of these come with SSDs.

I've gone thru 4 cards in the last 2 weeks for my brand new pi5. Idk what im doing to it. I'll try one of these.

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

Also make sure that the power delivery is adequate! No cheap adapters!

@jfarre20

6 ай бұрын

im using the official pi5 adapter@@tomazzaman i've just given up and am usb booting over a 128gb 3.0 stick

Why are you running in disk and not on ram?

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

Never thought I'd run an OS on RAM.

I've been using the exact same SanDisk sdcard you said it died on you twice. i have around 8 of them in raspberry pis 4 and 5, some working for 3+ years. not one died on me. 24/7 uptime on all PIs. i guess i'm lucky?

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

There's many variables, power delivery, OS choice, how much writes, etc. Could be like, could be all the other factors aligned :)

I am using Kingston Industrial in more than 10 raspberry pi for long time and none of them died yet :)

Wonder how that price compares to an SSD module for the Pi 5 🤔

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

SSD module costs around $30. So, half the price? :)

Some Years ago i also had 2 micro SD's die on me in a Pie. different brands. after that i discovered that Sandisk also has a Industrial Card with 8 GB. The only place i figured out to get it from was Ebay (mostly from china). Do not know if its the real deal, but it costs between 5-15 EUR and since then i had no problems no more... so probably you do not need to pay 60-120 EUR for such cards...

I've had better experience with USB keys, though they also have issues. Good alternative is USB-to-SATA adapter and a SATA SSD, but I guess none of these are aesthetically pleasing enough to warrant a YT video. 🤪

@tomazzaman

9 ай бұрын

I tried an external USB drive (Samsung T7) but Raspberry Pi would hang every once in a while, same if I had a thumb drive. I think it's due to voltage fluctuations which I read can be an issue on RPIs, but haven't actually tested it. No need, now that ATP is in :D

@zelozejn

9 ай бұрын

@@tomazzaman Yeah ... Good power supply is a must for RPi, first thing before anything else. If you're getting "undervoltage detected" messages in logs, replace it with a beefier one. I've seen RPi not working with external HD, but going all good when power supply was replaced. Even industrial SD card needs juice to work.

The speed of the Pi5 suffer greatly with slow sd cards thou.

I've done a similar setup compared to yours but setting the $ROOTFS to read-only and guess what? It's about to hit 6 ~5 months in and its still alive. And yes, its a very generic microsd one, bought from aliexpress.

I have a lot of Pi's running continuously for years and none have worn out cards. Most have 8 or 16 GB Sandisk. Avoid the large cards, stick with smaller ones.

@apveening

7 ай бұрын

I'd say the optimax is about 32 GB, large enough for wear levelling and small enough to avoid the complications of the larger ones.

Why don't you just boot off an ssd. Argon makes a case for that.

6 months back i also used a SanDisk Class 10 SD card.. corrupted and Died 😢😢

dudes... take the logging out of the SD card! Mostly it's only wasting writing cycles, create an external syslog server.

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Yep, definitely an option if you have one (an external syslog server that is)

@jupa7166

7 ай бұрын

Who needs logs from pihole? You can move all logs to tmpfs and happily delete them every day with cron. Should you need troubleshoot something? You just simply disable cron task.

Not sure why people's SD card died so often, I still have a SD card I bought when I started working

Are we supposed not to buy a perfectly good card because you've bought a bad clone or a bad unit?

@tomazzaman

6 ай бұрын

No.

Another solution if decide to stick with Raspberry pi, here: FINALLY! NVMe SSDs on the Raspberry Pi kzread.info/dash/bejne/d4yL15aMhdbHiZs.html

I decided to do not buy SanDisk after some time.

my sandisk died 3 times, now i am on usb

Unstable power is what destroys the cards.

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

Agreed - I suspect that was a culprit in my case as well, because I used some cheap USB-C wall wart.

WTF Sandisk are very reliable and they have a lifetime warranty, been using it for over 3 years with no problems

@tomazzaman

9 ай бұрын

Yep, they are. Until they are not :)

@Kalvinjj

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, very reliable until you hit their lifetime writes, then... yeah they'll die cause that's what every flash, reliable or not, does. I've had a Sandisk 64 GB Micro SD on my phone for like 7 years or what was it and it still works fine. The thing is, it rarely ever writes to it. An OS disk is a different story, your PC's SSD will also accumulate writes over it's lifetime no matter how lightly you use and how little you install stuff. Same with a phone's internal storage.

2 years and counting? You said it was "3 months ago" Stop using AI to generate scripts for you lmao.

@tomazzaman

5 ай бұрын

I'm not. Mistakes are possible. I'm only human. And not a robot. I think.

Laughs in F2FS. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F2FS

@tomazzaman

7 ай бұрын

TIL! Thanks!