The quote at around 30 minutes kind of reminds me of how I've heard people describe their attitude and thoughts while living through the 1960s. That it was this free spirited time and peaceful for many but the Vietnam War broke that reality and ended the decade in a terrible way.

@kinslayermds

3 жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more. I used to think that The Aiel War was Jordan's Vietnam stand-in but in the last year I've come to the conclusion that the War of Power and specifically an ill fated strike have to be the American south during the fifties to the seventies or so.

“Is it evil to control someone’s free will?” What free will? The Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills.

Starts at 2:47! What are your favorite or least favorite parts of the Age of Legends?

Fantastic topic and you announced a whole lot more that I'm looking forward too. Keep up the great work!

Loved this vid, the conversation and topics were so interesting and insightful.

@TheDustyWheel

3 жыл бұрын

It's one of those topics that has so many rabbit holes to chase down, since there are so many holes in our knowledge of that Age, but just enough information for us to speculate endlessly. Glad you enjoyed it!

For the opposite version of a chora tree, I would like to put forth the name of cholla (pronounced choy - uh) tree named after the cholla cactus - also known as the “jumping” cactus because of the way parts of it seem to jump onto anything that touches it. I think this name is perfect for the idea of a tree that makes people angry and want to attack. Plus it sounds good when discussing both together . . . Chora, cholla. It has a nice ring to it, don’t you think?

@ZidaneFC

3 жыл бұрын

I knew some cholas in high school. I would also call them prickly 😂.

Ok. I love ALL your guests, but these ladies are positively delightful. Please have them back on!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

@tracihk9964

3 жыл бұрын

Aw! Thank you!!! We hope to make future appearances for sure!

What if you volunteered your soul/consciousness into the body of a nym? If you're physical body was dying or coming to an end. What better way to serve would there be than that?

@TheDustyWheel

3 жыл бұрын

Love this idea, and twist of how it could be approached, like donating your organs at death.

@aaroncliff2327

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDustyWheel thats exactly right. There is also some precedent of that too when a certain character tries to revive dead person. We see the organs and physical body begin to work again but the soul has left. That opens up a heap of doors

@aaroncliff2327

3 жыл бұрын

I feel special getting a like and reply from the inn keeper. Made my day haha.

@anaiyasgarden

3 жыл бұрын

Oooooo. Love this idea.

This is a side note but: I understand why Rafe said that the references to the 1st Age would be small and vague, but I really wish they deal with the AoL sci-fi setting much more explicitly, even having a few scenes here and there (like the opening of the Bore for example) where say, people wear "modern" clothing or we see a sho-wing flying around.

00:38:38 there's that chair ter angreal underneath tar valon that is used on thieves.

Funny story. I had a dream last night that I was hanging out with Matt (the innkeeper, not Cauthon). He was editing the latest episode of the Dusty Wheel (which is funny since the shows are live). They had decided to get rid of the existing intro music and replace it with Sublime's "Smoke Two Joints" complete with the dialogue at the beginning. I woke up wondering when the episode about Two Rivers tabac was coming out.

Love the episode. You guys are great! Heads up though, your microphones are badly out of balance by volume. In order to hear one of you properly I need to have the volume up loud enough that it hurts when the other speaks. Listening to your show turning the volume up and down every couple of seconds xx

Missed the show live but loved watching after. When reading the books I was completely in that utopia mindset for AoL in the first full read. The show really blew my mind in terms of saying “maybe not”! 😆 I’m going to remain in that fantasy world for now, but really loved the show, always the guests, and great conversation!

I think theres a discussion worth having about how the fourth age begins. By that I mean that the first age supposedly ended in total apocalypse. The second age ended in the breaking. (essentially another apocalypse) But the third age ended with the last battle. It seems to me that the fourth age is starting lightyears ahead of the previous three. This leads me to two questions. 1. What kind of implications does this have for the fourth age? 2. How sure can we be that the last battle was the end of the third age?

@shauntempley9757

3 жыл бұрын

Because of the Bore. Opening that ended the second age, so sealing the Bore ended the third, and this was the main critical mission of the Last Battle in the first place.

@SeebsL

2 жыл бұрын

I think dividing time into seven ages so definitely is a mistake. I don't know if the mistake is the author's or by the inhabitants of the world. It is called the Third Age by some. Does that mean other ages have a different numbering system for seven ages or that dividing the wheel into seven ages is not a WoY universe property but a cultural understanding? If there are seven spokes to a circular wheel they have to be the same length or equidistant. For the metaphor to work in my mind the years in an age should be the same, which they clearly are not in the WoT. (I guess it could be more light a conveyer belt wheel?)

For a suposed utopian society, there was an entire group of people (tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands) who serve another people: the Aiel. The Aiel were slaves. They were bound to serve specific Aes Sedai. True, they were treated well. But slaves, nevertheless.

@Haxerous

3 жыл бұрын

Also Chora Trees. Those are basically mind control, and in a way a form of propaganda tool, depending on how you use them/think about it. Essentially makes you satisfied with what you have and not be too passionate about stuff. Probably best way to stop any kind of revolt or uprising dead in tracks or severely hamper it given how extensively these might have been used.

@shauntempley9757

3 жыл бұрын

The Aiel could have gotten that service in return for being the only people to accept and protect the Aes Sedai when they first appeared and were fully known by society. Humanity could have behaved the way it is in relation to mutants, then the Aiel appeared. A people, by the way that humanity as a whole respected, second only to the respect accorded to Aes Sedai when the Bore was opened. The Aiel were not slaves; they had a job to do with the Aes Sedai. As in, being the moral compass with the Aes Sedai. That only broke down when the Bore was drilled. They are pretty much doing what the Warders were, only on a more intrinsic level.

RE the length of the Age of Legends, we need to factor in that Channelling seems to increase lifespans - therefore, as the AVERAGE lifespan of the Kin is well over 600 years and we probably need to account for at least ten Generations of Channellers, we are probably looking at 3,000 years plus. Plus, the Nuclear Winter that ended the First Age, would need about 1-200 years to end and then rebuilding, basically from scratch, using the One Power rather than more traditional Power Sources AND the Ethical Change which Prioritizes "Service" rather than our own Money or Fame or Athletic Ability or... then we definitely should be talking thousands rather than hundreds of year length!

Was opening the bore like Eve eating the apple? Evil was already there in some ways, they just didn’t perceive it as evil?

I think its difficult for us to even have a conversation about a utopia because our world is so far away from that idea that I don't feel like we can even fully wrap our minds around it so we just look to poke holes. Its almost as if we don't want to believe its possible and it probably isn't 100% attainable because of human nature. I think the question to ask is 99% utopia close enough to call it a utopia. An important point to make regarding crime and punishment is that almost any punishment for crime takes away free will. Prison, death penalty, banishment, pretty much anything you can name. Even fines take away your free will to do what you want with your money. Are those things better than binders? Are binders more or less humane than the options?

@TheDustyWheel

3 жыл бұрын

I think the question of traditional prisons and binders, and the morality and humanity of either approach, would be a great one to have. I almost took us there during the show, but moved on to another topic. I should do a random questions show, where every ten minutes we switch topics, and have this be one.

@SeebsL

2 жыл бұрын

I want to like your comment more than once. I want to say more to add to what you're saying but you said it better than I could.

00:55:00 they did have cor souvra or however it's spelled.

Talking about opening the Bore reminds me of Twin Peaks The Return episode 8. Those who know what I’m talking about, know what I’m talking about.

Also at one point in the books they find a car hood ornament that’s described as looking like an Audi symbol full of greed and vanity.

If the Villains in the First Age were Channelers, then there would have been a huge amount of suspicion of Channelers in the Second Age. On the contrary, in the Second Age, Channelers are Revered.

The thing with the rehabilitation discussion in the 35-45 minute range is that crime would go down significantly if there was no motivation for it. Virtually all crime today is a result of either desperation (most of the time) or greed (less often). The latter could be reduced, for certain, with a different culture that could perhaps do better than our capitalist-centered culture. The former might even be almost completely removed (or close enough) if poverty and punishment were removed. In a utopian society, I think that desperation as a result of fear of punishment from the government or from poverty would be removed. At that point, all crime would be a result of a truly, purely, evil to the core person, or some sort of madness. I don't think the former actually exists, and the latter could be cured in this society with channeling. I believe that the best possible society, which we'll call a type 2 society, is one in which the optimal strategy for any highly logical and selfish person involves the betterment of others. If any human being stands to benefit from actions that harm others, it does not satisfy this idea. In a utopia, or type 3 society, no being CAN do anything that is not for the betterment of others. This type of society would (probably?) have either no free will or no way for any human to affect any other human (the latter is a neat idea, explored in some Asimov books) TLDR: Second age might be a type 2 society, but is not a type 3 society. However, it is certainly close to achieving type 2, which is much better than out modern society. There is a much more reasonable argument for our modern society being a dystopia.

@michaelodonnell824

Жыл бұрын

In OUR society, we have people who USE and Exploit others purely for Profit (Money). We usually call such people "Entrepreneurs" but the difference between may such "Entrepreneurs" and Drug Lords is that the "Entrepreneurs" tend to come from situations of Inherited Wealth. Now, we need to address what we define as "Crime". No one denies stealing or Murder are "Crimes" but what about attaching a tracker to people, expecting them to constantly move, fulfilling customer orders, and limiting break and Toilet access? Is that a "Crime"? If the Age of Legends IS a Utopia, then there's no Amazon and Jeff Bezos is a "Criminal". If that's not the case, then we need to completely reform how we understand "Utopias". Don't get me wrong. Much of what we currently define as "Crime" is the result of inequitable distribution of resources and a Legal System designed to support the continuation of the inequitable distribution of resources. But there are other action and actors, usually lauded by contemporary societies, who cause FAR more harm to both the Earth and to their fellow Human Beings, than the worst "Criminal" pursued by and punished by Society as a whole. If, in a possible Future, such exploitative actions are defined as "Criminal", then there may be many more people needing "Healing" than we today would count!

@egwenealvereiscool7726

Жыл бұрын

​@@michaelodonnell824 Right now, a "crime" is an action prohibited by law. I do not see why this would not be true in a utopia. If the motivation for crime disappears, so too will the crimes themselves. Things that are not crimes, but still cause harm would also (in a good society) not occur. The easiest way to implement that is to remove the motivation for them. My idea of a perfect society has no motivation for "bad" or harmful actions.

Jeff Goldbloom as Ishamael. “See, Umm, this drop of water see? It will eventually, umm drip in the dark ones , umm, his favor. Therefore, it only make, uhhhh, it only makes sense that I should give into um chaos. Atrophy is um, it’s just ahhh natural. Now Lews Therin it’s, ahhh uhhmmm, yes it’s time to die.

@sonicintervention7474

3 жыл бұрын

@@Hostilehippie13 Jeff goldbloom as Patrick Rothfuss. “So Um I put all my ah um insecurities see, um, they are all Kvothe. See I wrote Name of the wind, then I wrote Wise Man Fear the third book is coming out...” trails off weirdly for fifteen years

The ter'angreal that captures soul is called the cour souvra

Is the end of the 1st age not ours? Ending in nuclear war? That spawned generic mutations leading to channeling.

Matt the name of the opposite of Chora Trees is obvious Killer Bees I mean Trees. 😏

While we know Robert said the 1st age was based on our time, does he specifically say he means all of it? Or just when society became a thing? I ask because does he leave room for the billions of years without human society? Because either it's included and the 1st (or possibly 7th as maybe it's the end and beginning) is 4.5 billion years long, or the cycle of the wheel only begins once human society started, a mere 7000 years ago. And if it turns with civilizations, then the 1st age is probably only 8-9 thousand years long. Include the 3rd age at 3500, and my guess would be the 2nd age falls in between those two. Any longer and how would stories from the 1st age still survive? Could they be around for thousands of years, certainly, but for tens of thousands? Doubt it. Yet they speak of the moon landing and Queen Elizabeth still.

Amber and Tracy are louder than Matt

The Second Age Stasis Box scandal, if only they would have put a warning label on the boxes they shipped, it all could have been avoided. 🤦🏽‍♂️

*Tar Vuh-lahn* clicks off the video

@TheDustyWheel

23 күн бұрын

@@dimentoplexitronum4923 😂 I’ll always pronounce that as Robert Jordan pronounced it. Much love to Michael and Kate of course.