When people say "if they come with a strong season 2"... what they are really saying is: "If they use season 2 to correct the many mistakes of season 1". That alone should be signaling something.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

IF WE DON'T HAVE HOPE WE HAVE NOTHING LEFT 😭 (what I'm saying is, is yes you are right)

@moma-b

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed.

@FeebleAntelope

2 жыл бұрын

// what they are really saying is: "If they use season 2 to correct the many mistakes of season 1" It really sucks after seeing a show like The Expanse, which just sets things up well from the start. Just knowing that there's quality like that out there, I don't have the patience to waste my time watching shitty shows and hoping they get good later. Life is too short. If I want good WOT content, I'll just read the books. The WOT books are good and that's enough for me. The show can fade away as far as I'm concerned. There can be another adaptation later. They make reboots all the damn time. Fraggle Rock got a new movie. Ducktales got a reboot. BSG is getting a reboot again. Ghostbusters got two in under 10 years. **It's not the end of the world if this show gets canceled! In fact, the worst case scenario is Judkins and his writing team continuing on at the helm**, blocking a better production team from the opportunity to take a better crack at it. Judkins has done nothing but double down on the shoddy work he has delivered. He's not capable of righting the ship. This is his first time helming such a huge project: He would need experience helming at least ONE such project first to have the skill set required.

@bradys_luck6963

Жыл бұрын

Well season 2 wrapped just after season 1 aired soooooo

What really saddens me is that after reading many non book readers reactions, most, almost all, don't care at all about the EF5 (Nynaeve being somewhat an exception but barely). And that's just a total failure, especially when it comes to Rand, there should at least be some interest. They are the main characters, after 8 episodes i see more people caring about Liandrin, the hell. And i totally agree with what your friends said about all the teenage drama, it's so incredibly unnecessary, and i didn't see anybody, reader or not, being even remotely invested in that "triangle". That scene with Rand and Perrin was terrible, those are not Rand and Perrin AT ALL.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

The thing, is they tried to darken the tone to appeal more to adult audiences but then...threw in a love triangle which is stereotypically known to be a more YA fantasy element. Just a very weird choice.

@Baalzamon84

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Your friend Brandons take on the whole Perrin killing his wife plot really hit for me. His reaction was basically exactly what Sanderson warned Rafe against doing in an interview and Rafe just totally ignored him. Which had to do with how there was just no way the show was going to be able to do justice to the emotional turmoil that would come about from killing your spouse like that.

@bluelight17

2 жыл бұрын

@@Baalzamon84 It's such a big trauma, there is no way Perrin could get over it so fast, if ever. And it just went nowhere. With how they handled it i wouldn't be surprised if his wife will be barely mentioned in season 2. I don't even know how his beef with the WC will go, in the book he killed 2 of them, in the show...he growled once at Valda.

@davidbowles7281

2 жыл бұрын

The EF5 aren't that good in the books either imo. People are interested in Liandrin because antagonists make the story, not protagonists. Jordan never got that memo, making his stuff hard to adapt.

@bluelight17

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidbowles7281 We just have different opinions about this. I was plenty interested in how these 5 (some more, some less) story was going to unfold, no matter what i thought about them. Egwene is my least favorite of the 5 as a person, still i really liked her story arc, and i was way more interested in her's than Perrin's for example. Villains are good, but i never felt the need to know more about someone like Liandrin. If anything i wanted more of the Forsaken, in the show as well (still, not as main characters unless it's a spin off).

This was so interesting! I think it just validated my final opinion on the show - I could have gotten on board with almost any changes from the book if they had just made good television. But all we have is a mediocre tv show and a bad adaptation.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, agreed. If non-book readers were super excited about the show and just LOVING it, then I think we would all pause. But...it's just not happening for the most part. THey are finding it just OK.

@KevinRothert

2 жыл бұрын

100% agree

@lolroflundxd

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. You can get away with almost everything, if you are good at the core thing you do. Sportstars or Musicians beating their Girlfriends, nobody cares aslong as they score points, or produce good music. Or Gaming Companys: Riot and Blizzard basically had the same problem, nobody cared about Riot, because people were happy with the product. Blizzard gets (deservedly) craped on, because people are not happy with the product. So even if the show changed alot, or was super woke, nobody would really care if it was just good Television.

@AA-hr1bk

2 жыл бұрын

If it weren't for the special effects to save its ass it would have been the same quality as the Legend of the Seeker. Which was failure as a tv series.

Watched it with my Daughter and her boyfriend, (20 somethings) who knew nothing about the books, and we did it weekly as the new shows came out, (no binging). Generally, they started confused, and felt the story had poor explanation of what was going on. The wife and I (who have both read the entire series) tried to fill in a lot of questions about back story and the powers, but if we hadn't been their I can't say if they would have understood half of what was happening. The boyfriend noped out at the Love Triangle. His exact quote, "What, is this a CW show? Didn't Perrin just kill his wife? Well did he kill her to get her out of the way?". Needless to say, he was done with the show after he though Perrin was a murderer. Daughter liked the politics of the Sisters in episodes 4-6, but by episode 7 and 8 was playing with her phone rather than watching the show. In the end, she compared it to Netflix's "Smoke and Bone" and "Cursed", which is not high praise. Neither expressed a desire to watch Season 2.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Such a bummer, but that seems to be the default opinion - it's not working for non-book readers either. And the show is relying a lot on book-readers knowledge but is also alienating us. It's confusing!

@papabull8993

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I was sad, I wanted it to be something we could share. Honestly, it is just poor writing on behalf of the show. But that seems to be the plague of Hollywood lately.

@v.lighting3530

2 жыл бұрын

Man, that's really suck. I know how it felt sharing something you love but not appreciated. Its not your daughter and bf fault tho, the show just suck. Most people wouldnt want to pick up the book because how bad this show is.

A fun thing for me was watching your face during the first interview. Barely restraining yourself from helping your friend with his confusion over the storyline and characters. 😆 Perfect visual of the frustration most of us WOT readers have with the show.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

LOL I was trying so hard not to spoil things too since I know he's going to read it 😆

I always refer to this Reddit comment about the show that I saw. It sums up my feelings perfectly. 👇🏽 "I felt like a gambler at the horseraces: the anticipation and hopes of what might be ahead of the race, the ups and downs of the race itself, and throwing away the betting slip, returning to my 9-5 job after the horse collapses on the track and doesn't even cross the finish line."

AJ's comment (time stamp 39:45) is spot on. "The problem is there are so many plot holes, so many inconsistencies, so many mistakes, it doesn't make me feel like I'm in the hands of a master story teller that's going to make it all pay off. It makes me feel like "do they know what's going on right now?" "Are they just flying by the seat of their pants pulling this together?" "

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, he said it so well! I started feeling the same. So many almost-good elements that just...didn't come together, or weren't planned effectively

My reader friends and i tried to like it but couldn't get past all of the major changes. My non-reader friends liked the show, but they didn't have enthusiasm for it; they just watched it because they saw the commercials and ads. For them it was just entertainment for a few hours.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

That’s seems right perfectly describe the friends I interviewed. It was entertaining for them but nothing to inspire obsession

@alveolate

2 жыл бұрын

as a non-book, that is my exact reception: cool show, but completely forgettable. i was initially quite awed by the cool effects they used for aes sedai magic, but it got wayyyy out of hand by ep8. in retrospect it was really only best used in ep1 when morainne smashed some trollocs. ep8 reallyyyy felt bad, even before i watched any reaction videos after.

@moma-b

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I wish I could had entertainment at least. But for me the entertainment factor of a story where I see 20 people charging the back of their own fort, and characters behaving totally unnatural in their story is close to zero. I only watched all 8 episodes because I wanted to know what they made out of the story. After the first 3 episodes I still had hope, I understood that cuts were necessary. But then they just went too far with not explaining anything but creating contradictions and ambiguity mixed with woke propaganda, like "the arrogance of men broke the world", "the power is for women only". (Do you remember Kathleen Kennedy in a t-shirt with "THE FORCE IS FEMALE"?) As a person I do not like when writers think I'm stupid and I won't see the incoherence in the story. --> Nynaeve's story about the Wisdom who was rejected by the White Tower because she was poor, and in Siuan poor Sanche's story, who is accepted and raised to leadership. Moiraine who spent 20 years to find the Dragon Reborn because the fate of the whole world depends on him, but when she does find canditates she just casually abandons all of them in great danger for a month, hoping, they can and will go to the White Tower. (book vs. show - *they arrogantly thought* they can write a better story than Robert Jordan) Siuan Amyrlin Sanche dreaming about the Dark One being weak at the Eye of the World and not sending all Aes Sedai there right away to attack, but only Moiraine with two untrained girls and some boys to certain death. In secrecy. What a wise leader. The writing of this show is insulting everyone's intelligence. 😕

@emrek99205

2 жыл бұрын

@@moma-b Thank you. I hadn't made the connection between the previous Wisdom and Siuan when I watched the show, but I totally see the contradiction. The Wisdom's journey to the White Tower at 14 wasn't mentioned in the books. The show needed some visible reason for Nynaeve to be mad in the presence of Moiraine so that her power could be sensed. And that angry story was it. The anger started when Moiraine blocks Nynaeve's exit from the pool before the story is told. Exactly how Moiraine knew that anger was necessary to detect Nynaeve's power, who knows, but she did. Maybe that is included in the Karaethon Cycle along with knowing the Dragon Reborn is female. Maybe Rafe was using it as a similarity to the writing on the One Ring being seen when it's been exposed to fire.

Please have Brandon back on after he’s read the books. I’d be really interested to see if his take changes.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

A few people have suggested this and I think it could be super fun! I'll have to get on him about reading it lol

@squiggs928

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn sweet. Thanks for replying. Always great to feel connected to the channels I follow. Consider me a sub with the bell ON!

@step4018

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn He needs an extra name though because with WoT every time anyone is saying Brandon... well unless his surname is Sanderson too! 🤣

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I love how Brandon didn't care about ANY of "the main FOUR" characters from Emond's Field... and completely forgot about Nynaeve making FIVE. Notice how Brandon NOTICED and REMEMBERED even Thom... from just one episode? And of course Lan... and Logain. He noticed and remembered, and WAS INVESTED IN three of the four male characters who were NOT "pathetic losers"... as well as Moiraine and Liandrin. WHO he noticed, among the guys, who he didn't remember/mention, and who he outright admitted NOT caring about, should tell us all rather a lot about how well the WRITERS of this show did their job of getting us invested in our heroes.

@jaginaiaelectrizs6341

2 жыл бұрын

@@nyetzdyec3391 I disagree. I think it really just tells us alot about what his own personal interests in characters and story-elements are, personally. I've never read the books either. And yet I noticed and remembered and cared more about completely different things than what he did, myself. 🙂

I have yet to read the series but I do enjoy the genre having watched many fantasy shows and movies while also having a high interest in games both video and tabletop alike; however I did not care for the show and felt it was pretty bland without really diving into the meat of the characters. If anything I would say that these videos have had me more interested in picking up the books than I would have continuing the show.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I think many people share your opinion (including my friends). It was *fine*. Nothing that's inspiring a lot of excitement, even among non-readers.

@AA-hr1bk

2 жыл бұрын

The show was less than average. I didn't like it at all. I don't understand how can people would give it 6 out of 10. It is max a 3 and even that is high.

@FearTheLivingDFG

2 жыл бұрын

@@AA-hr1bk In comparison to the book series or just as a show overall?

@AA-hr1bk

2 жыл бұрын

@@FearTheLivingDFG just as a show. If it was not for the speciall efects to save its ass everything else is on the same level as Eragon and Legend of the Seeker. And those two were terrible. If i compare it to the books i will give it -1 rating.

39:55 That is the best summary of the impression this show gives that I’ve ever heard. And yes, I 100% believe they don’t really know the story as well as they say they do and are just making every decision practically on a whim.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

And I'm for sure more biased against that sort of thing - I'm always someone who has preferred tight plotting to exploratory writing, and so it always grates me when I see it happening.

@moma-b

2 жыл бұрын

Amazon did not buy the rights of WoT to make a good adaptation. They bought it to make as much money as they can, with as little investment as possible. Nobody cares about the story. They want to make money, convey propaganda, and that's it. Have you read the script of the first episode? It's really bad. It is worth it to read and learn what did they aim for. 🤐

@squiggs928

2 жыл бұрын

Rafe said they weren’t following the book. That they took quotes from the books and built the story around those. Not the plot or the characters. Just quotes. A very subjective way to try and make a faithful adaptation.

Seriously, this was an awesome video. Your friends did an awesome job of expressing their views. And, I think that their views were both insightful and very telling. Again, great video!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Great perspectives! Thanks for putting this together bookborn!- would love to see more content like this

This is really good to hear. Honestly kind of what I expected, but I like seeing the opinions of different viewers. I’m still waiting for my brother to finish it so we so we can talk, but I definitely think his reaction will be very similar. -T

18:05 Not even book readers know where the show is going from here. I feel the first season only stuck to the books just enough to be able to claim it was based on them, but it ended in such a way that it seemed to be telling the audience “forget what you know about the story, cause we’re doing our own thing now!”

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes but it's expected as book readers that we don't know where it's going because we are stuck on all the changes...it's more damaging that non-book readers have no idea what to expect either, you know? Like the show should be able to stand on it's own, at least...

@KevinRothert

2 жыл бұрын

@Ash Hill No kidding! Are you ok with them doing their own thing or nah?

This is such an interesting video! Thanks BookBorn and guests!

75% chance Rand/Perrin/Egwene love triangle ends up with Perrin being interested in Rand, not Egwene.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

LOL WELL IT WOULD GIVE PERRIN SOMETHING TO DO WOULDN'T IT

@EricBentleyEB5minus2

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn lol it would at that

@BonaparteBardithion

2 жыл бұрын

(Spoilers, just in case) This is Rand we're talking about. Mutual polyamory is the only possibility.

@whowhatwherewhy1434

2 жыл бұрын

Ummmmm…I honestly thought that was where they were going to to Be more woke…a rand Petrine thing…I did not pick up on the Perrin egwene thing

I figured it out! I love the way you annunciate words! Good video!

Great video! I hadn’t read the books about halfway through as well and them started reading them at episode 4! I’m now on shadow rising and I really enjoyed the series as a whole as a great piece of television with the actors perfectly capturing the characters for me in early part of the series. There are some differences I’m interested to see more of in season 2, like the Horn of Valere placement and others I can’t think of right now! You’re friends opinions were fascinating and you are an awesome creator! Have a good one.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Oh I'm so glad you are enjoying the books! It makes me so happy that the show is making people want to read them.

I have read the series already and I have no hope for the show anymore. After watching the show, seeing the changes, reading about rafe and his beliefs about the show, I think the show will get worse and worse and get canceled in the end. This is a sad thing because I was so hyped for it at the beginning, encouraging my family to watch it. Nobody liked it. I personally give the show a 4/10.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I'm giving it season 2. Or at least a few episodes of season 2. But even for non-book readers this season is going to make or break the show. I wouldn't say nobody loved it... there's people on the internet who have... but it certainly wasn't enough people.

@davister84

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I expect it to improve once the storylines do. EotW is pretty Tolkein derivative and the ending comes out of nowhere. The climaxes in the next two books are much more in line with the plot development throughout the books. And the quality of plotting is much better from book 4. My worry is the dialogue writing is pretty poor, but there's little dialogue in the books which is snappy enough to directly put into TV scenes.

Hey! Found your indie fantasy September video the other day and instantly subscribed. Glad to see new content. And gotta say that this inspired me to give the show a shot. Adaptations of epic fantasy just don't usually work out for me, but hey, at least I know going in what the weak points are.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! And I'd say...read the book 🤣

Love this! Thanks for making it happen and to your friends for participating. :)

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Awesome video. Great job bringing us these perspectives.

The lack of world building/lore seems like the biggest problem

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, I agree. It's all in the writing room. It relies too much on book-readers knowledge but also doesn't want to make them happy either

Love the review/discussions, keep it up!

Just subscribed. Thank you for continuing the conversation. I think I've heard the majority of perspectives on this show. They are as varied and complicated as the weaves of a gateway.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I think there are a lot of different opinions, and it's been fun to collect them. I will be curious if one opinion starts settling as "dominate" the further we get from the show.

Your friends are great, thank you SO MUCH for sharing their perspectives with us!

I love the perspective. Great idea of a way to sum up the way different people felt about season one.

Great video, I appreciate their insight! Fantastic. Best wishes and good fortune to you and your friends.

Wow your friends seem like really nice people :D I'm glad you have such a fun group around you! OT: damn this show, I hope it gets locked up with the forsaken :D hahahaha

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

LOL do we need to make a seal and seal away our dark one (the show)

Great video and a wonderful follow up to your series on WoT show! I loved hearing these different perspectives from non-readers and semi-readers (your friend AJ). I'm on the fence about season 2. I would love to see Verin and Selene but not enough to jump in right away. I think I'm going to wait until a couple of episodes come out and watch a few reviews (including yours) before jumping back in (if I jump back in). I made the same face you did when I heard they were more than halfway done with season 2 by the time season 1 finished airing. I think one of your commentators mentioned Nerdy Nightly - they have started a book club series for WoT after watching the first season as non-readers. One of their comments on the first section of the book was - 'why didn't they just put the prologue in, would have explained so much' (I'm paraphrasing). That one comment was worth all the frustrating moments explaining to non-readers why I had such a hard time while watching this first season.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I've heard so much of Nerdy Nightly! There's just so many simple small things they could've done to make it make more sense. These weren't giant episode-changing things; honestly, many could've been small. It's just that all those things added up to a season that didn't deliver on much. I'm very nervous for season 2. I had way more hope before finding out it was already well into filming. I guess we'll see 🤷‍♀️ There is a non-zero chance that it may deviate so much as to be impossible to do differences videos...

It's interesting how many concerns/questions about lore would have been addressed if they had done the prologue from the novel rather than the scene they did.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Do you think it would've answered questions? I feel like as a reader the first time, the prologue didn't make much sense to me until after like book 3 or 4. But, I do think it would've been great to include just for wow factor alone

@KameronFranklin

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I think it would help with some explanation of why men channeling is dangerous, and the threat the Dark One poses. I agree it would have created more intrigue or mystery if used as a prologue to episode one, but I think it would have worked better in place of the flashback we got in episode 8.

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@@KameronFranklin "created more intrigue or mystery"... Another way to say "baiting the hook to attract viewers", which would have made it VITAL if only for that reason, but it would have served other purposes, as well. Just for one, it would have explained why people are afraid of the Dragon being reborn in their lifetime... would have established a "stake".. would have explained WHY Rand resists the idea of being the DR, and so on.

@johnmasteller140

2 жыл бұрын

@@nyetzdyec3391 I think one reasons why they couldn't (not just didn't, but couldn't) get into it more was the world lore breaking decision that a woman could be the DR. I know it was probably done for inclusion or what have you, but it tossed in a dilemma. If the DR is a woman, then you don't need to worry about the taint or them going mad and the whole part about men channeling isn't as bad.

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnmasteller140 I agree... but that's one HUGE reason that it was such a stupid decision in the first place. The decision to "break the lore" and include the possibility of a woman being the DR had a great many "domino effect" results... and I can't think of a SINGLE one of those results that was actually good. Even the people who enjoy that possibility, and/or the "mystery"... probably would NOT enjoy it if they understood all the crappy consequences which have resulted from it.

Thank you for doing this. It was great to hear non book readers talking about the show. I think you having a history with them added a lot more to it. I've read the series a bunch of times, not a fan of the show (unsurprising, I know lol) . Also, I love your background! All the books and Cap's shield to top it off. Keep up the great work, it's appreciated!

Morraine and Siuan was in the books but their “relationship” ended when they were novices. I was good with it still going on and being a love affair.

At least for the majority of the series, the scenes that were adapted from GoT were fairly accurate. WoT is all over the place, and misses the CORE story.

Great discussion! Loved this. Thank you.

Thanks for making this video! I loved hearing these perspectives and finding out how your non-book reader friends felt about the series. I had a lot of disappointment as a book reader as I watched the show with my husband who has not read the books and the amount of frustration I felt at the storytelling issues was felt tenfold by him. He ultimately found it boring and confusing. It was really sad because I’ve been wanting to listen to the books together with him and convincing him of that time commitment now is a much harder sell when I was hoping the show would pique his interest. Really appreciated hearing some other point of views. I’ll be sharing this video with him.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Ugh that must've been SO frustrating! And just a bad sign that the show was confusing/not working for a non book reader. If your book readers don't love it, and your non-book readers aren't understanding it...then who is your show for?

Thank all four of you for filming this, It was very interesting... I have read the books many times throughout the years. And I also give the show a 5 / 10. The most fascinating thing about the comparisons (for me) is that a lot of the issues for both groups (book / non book) seem to be the same, just about different aspects of the show. In general the consensus I have seen is that the visuals were pretty good, the casting was good, the writing / lore fell very short. Some of the individual pieces were good, they just weren't cohesive enough to make an over arching story that made sense and drew in the audience. But I digress Thank you for your fun discussion . I enjoyed it

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Completely agree. Components were there but they didn’t manage to bring everything together. Hopefully they listen to their detail person better next time n

I liked the veil down. It's a statement that she didn't want to fight.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I wasn't too bothered by it - even though it's sort of "lore breaking", I think for a show it was an ok choice. But...I did like what AJ had to say about it so now I'm conflicted

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

IMO, the veil down would be fine to indicate she doesn't WANT to fight... but then she needs to put it UP when fighting becomes inevitable. She dies in the ONLY scene she has all season, so we don't really need to connect with her as a person... but as a member of a group, "Aiel"... and Aiel veil when they intend to fight for real... kill or potentially kill. In turn, later on, if they hadn't already "broken the lore", an Aiel character quickly veiling would save time/dialog/exposition, etc... ie - "A picture worth a thousand words."

@scottpaul8479

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I think it is also important to remember her "origins"

Thanks for this! I discovered your channel while looking for level-headed discussions/reactions to the WoT series and I think this was a fantastic way to follow up your thoughts on season 1. As a book reader I think I would give it a 4.5-5/10. My non-book reader wife (she will probably read the books soon) was more of a 6/10 like your guests. She had a lotnof similar complaints and questions, and raised a lot of similar points too.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Oh that's fun that she's going to read it! Honestly, a TON of people have started reading it because of the show, which is a huge win in my book.

@ryan.noakes

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn agreed!

That was an amazing video! Watched the whole thing while at work and really liked to hear everyone's opinions. I laughed because I know so much of how you feel about the show, and when someone like Brandon (who didn't read the books) would confirm he feels the same you seemed so relieved 😂Super interesting take on the Aiel scene by AJ, I wasn't aware of the motivations for the change either. Also sorry but Adam is a carbon copy of Zack lolol

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I kept waiting for the few people that know Zack to be freaked out by his brother lol. Zack has two brothers and they all look extremely alike and have similar mannerisms haha.

I've read a lot of fantasy. Across all sub genres. The Wheel of Time has stood it test of time and is among the best written and broadest in scope out there. And it was exceptional when it came out back in the early 1990s. So much of the genre owes this book series. The show on the other hand is generic and badly paced, has bad dialogue, terrible character development, with inconsistent CGI and internal logic. The budget spending is rookie-like and the story is all over the place. It has it's moments, which apparently is enough for some people, but it's nowhere near the books. Like not even 5% in greatness. And that is why I'm sad that this is what we get. It will probably not be re-adapted in the next 10 years. This content is 58 minutes long, so obviously I haven't seen it all yet, but the first guy seems nice with good points.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah i me a since none of these three people have read the novels they have less of an investment than us fans, you know? And I think that’s interesting. Either way they only thought it was ok which is a bad sign imo

@theupperechelon7634

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Yes, actually a terrible sign as these people are the fantasy nerds Rafe claims to have made it for. The show should have been exceptional. Everything less is not good enough. We should be discussing how fantastic the ending of season 1 was, how well the wolves and Perrins journey was, how amazing the big battles were, and how exceptional the writing and production was. Instead it's; "is it as bad as a lot of book readers say?" or "I would have done this instead" or "I don't think I will watch season 2".

@SuddenReal

2 жыл бұрын

"It will probably not be re-adapted in the next 10 years." Oh, it will. Remember, this is the second adaptation of WoT. Red Eagle made the first one when the rights were about to return to the Jordan estate. So, in ten years, when the rights will go back again, they'll make another one to keep them.

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@@SuddenReal I'm almost certain that the rights will NOT return to the Jordan estate in 10 years... not for a LONG time. The reason Red Eagle made that TINY half-hearted attempt was to KEEP the rights from reverting... at which they failed... because they did NOT make a GENUINE attempt. Amazon IS making a genuine attempt (no matter how bad it is, 100M$+ is definitely genuine), so that is going to secure the rights for a LONG time.

@davidbowles7281

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think it has stood up well at all. It's very 1980s imo.

Props to you. You can tell you're struggling to not give away what happens in the books compared to the show. Especially in the first interview. The restraint is admirable. I couldn't do it. 😂

Awesome video! Even though you don’t like the show, I really love your videos and your perspectives! I love the show. Despite some issues I have with it overall, I really did like it. I never read the books when I started watching but my love of the show caused me to start reading them. And now I’m on book 3 and I still don’t feel the show has ruined the books or the characters. I love the cast and think they really nailed the characters from the book. I also like a lot of the changes they’ve made to the books. For all the criticisms launched at the show, I think similar problems persist in the books (pacing issues, fridging of female characters ie Thom’s arc in book 2, rushed arcs, poorly developed romances, etc). But I’ve had book fans call me stupid for liking the show, and it’s been really frustrating dealing with all of that to the point where it’s almost deterred me from continuing to read. I think people need to chill and let people enjoy what they want. It’s been annoying having tons of video essays say why the show is bad but any time someone says they like it, they get attacked, basically drowning out the opinion and making it seem like no one likes it. I like both the show and the book, and hopefully people can respect that opinion of myself and others!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Your love of the show is safe here!!! Even though I was disappointed, I'm always happy when people enjoy the show because I want it to perform well. I think this show doing well will pave the way for other shows and adaptations in the future. Actually, most fans (at least the ones I talked to pre-show, before the loud minority started shouting) agreed there were issues we expected to see fixed in an adaptation. Like the fridging you mentioned, and honestly every single romance LOL like they aren't done well. So it's annoying that although some things were fixed (and I enjoyed that) others weren't...like fridging Perrin's wife. But I'm eager for season 2 and hope it fixes the issues I at least personally had with it.

@dsigg

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn thank you so much!! I definitely hope they can fix a lot of issues from both the show and books in season 2! I love this series (in either form) and I want to see this show thrive and be the best it can be!!

@maxdelpo5578

2 жыл бұрын

Don't worry I'm with you with this. The show has a lot of flaw but a lot of high too, for instance: Padan Fain, the tathu'an, Nynaeve.. I do think that we have to suggest every fantasy addicted non book readers, to give a possibility to future seasons because, as for the books, there will be epic moments and a lot of cool new characters and incredible arc for the protagonists. Expecially the misunderstood Rand that, in the book, has one of the most impressive arc that I have ever read

I love this video. Thanks so much. 1:57 "Nerdy and legit" just how I would describe your channel.

Greatest lines from this video " It felt a little like dragon ball Z, like Goku is summing the spirit bomb for five episodes" and " Felt really strange to see his pecks when his bro is dead" hahaha these were great.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I died with Adam said that about Lan 🤣

Great video! Cool friends and I appreciated the varied opinions! And, ya gotta tell us what D&D campaign lasted 5 years! I am a book reader who never expected a 1:1 tv adaptation of TWoT. I didn't get one with GoT and I really enjoyed the show. The same goes for The Last Kingdom on Netflix. Great delivery, awesome writing and some very competent actors. Totally sold and happy. My biggest worry with the Wheel of Time was that they were going to make and deliver a CW style show in the vein of The Shannara Chronicles; and that is exactly what we got. Like they went and found everyone that worked on that show (down to the costume designers and lighting/sound engineers) and hired them for a do-over.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

oh lol the campaign hasn't lasted 5 years! We've just been playing in the same group for five years 🥰 We cycle through being DM's. Our campaigns all last about a 1-1.5 years. It's such a fun group! The Shannara Chronicles is perhaps the worst thing to every grace the screen. Like...I got so much second hand embarrassment from that show I think I made it 1.5 episodes before nope-ing out. This was better than that but I do think it had some similarities that are worrying.

@mplovecraft

2 жыл бұрын

Both WoT and Shannara average at 7.2 in IMDB with approximately the same distribution of votes - 10 being the most common with both series. At least the voters on imdb seem to have very similar feelings towards both of the shows.

@redbeard365

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Exactly. I've always felt really, really bad for Terry Brooks. I honestly don't know his opinion on the tv adaptation of his books, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he wasn't too keen on it. I will never get over the 'elf ears' comments. They destroyed me inside LOL.

Thanks for putting this together, I know Adam and it was enjoyable seeing him surmise the Amazon product in a very apropos way. It is worrisome that season two is already underway and how close they are to post production, could seal the fate of its future more so than any cuendillar could. The point of adaptation changes from book to TV are for a few basic reasons. Complexity and the reliance on imagination in a book can be difficult to adapt for movie/tv, characters feelings, and especially in fantasy the magic needs to be visualized, and finally if the changes make the story better. The changes Judkins makes do not make the story better, instead of using already proven story archs and events, he either ignored or changed those events and then failed to make any impact for the better. As with your select panel here, the story on Amazon is confusing and without substance and it is hard to escape the thought if Judkins would have just stuck to the story, it would have been far less confusing and more time could have been spent on capturing an audience to be fans of the characters, instead there are the extremes both for and against, but majority of TV show watchers share the response to the question, did you like the show ...."meh". That seems like a waste of millions of dollars and ruined a truly epic fantasy story being told well. As a old (haven't finished the series but read the first 7 books years ago) book reader and many of the facts and details are forgotten, I was open and ready for an adaptation - true to the source material - that was likely to be different than the books, and I would have enjoyed them if they were done well and made sense with an outcome that was rewarding. But Judkins' team failed. Radical changes/adaptations to the same story are possible and can both be unique and enjoyable, one example is 'It's a Wonderful Life' and the modern adaptation of that story 'Family Man'. Very different, very independent, but tell the same story. Amazon and JudCo had a ready made consumer base. Sadly though, the product offering they sold was average for the masses. Like those here, I will watch season two but without any excitement because season one was so poorly executed and instead watch with morbid curiosity how they continue to defame such legendary work.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I am also very worried about the fact that season 2 was well underway before season 1 was over - and so no actual productive criticisms could be taken into account. We'll see...

SO MANY of Brandon's comments of things that don't make sense, or didn't get explained are how I felt reading Eye of the World. Lol

@bluelight17

2 жыл бұрын

I think the main difference is that the book and the show follow completely different narrative threads. Stuff that by this point we should know in the show (but that in many cases we still don't), weren't really necessary in the first book.

@KevinRothert

2 жыл бұрын

@@bluelight17 I agree. it's a huge world(s?) with a ton of lore and it's hard to make sure what needs to be there for the audience is there (especially dealing with characters that don't know things themselves!)

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

LOL I mean yeah my deep dark secret is that I don't think the prologue makes a lick of sense to a first time reader. I didn't like the prologue until my second read through. It's only amazing to a seasoned person I feel like...

@KevinRothert

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn yeah I read the prologue and was like...what?????????? emphasis on the questions marks. I also was still wondering what the eye of the world was when we the book was over, sometimes I still wonder... 🤔

As a non-reader of the books, I agree with a lot of what Brandon said. In my opinion, the show is about Moraine, Lan and Igwaine. Whatever is going on with the 4 kids from the 2 rivers and the dragon and the end of the world is pushed way way into the background and made almost irrelevant. I'd give the show a weak 7/10 but it needs to get stronger and spend more time on the main characters and whatever is supposed to be happening. A map would be helpful too.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think you've hit at something which is that people are entertained enough that they will for sure watch the next season, but if it doesn't keep their interest people won't have a problem leaving it at the drop of a hat, either.

Ok, so your friend on the episode, Brandon, would absolutely love the WoT books. If the Aes Sedai political intrigue his favorite part he would love the series!! I don’t want to spoil it in any way but the books go really in-depth and with him being a fan of Sanderson I think he would especially love the later parts of the series. It’s my favorite part of WoT too and quickly became my favorite book series ever. I really hope he reads it! I would love an update on the channel of more people reading it after the show is over.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah the only difference is that stuff doesn't start until a bit later in the book...you aren't getting much of it in the first three parts. But I Think he will enjoy them, just since we read an enjoy a lot of the same stuff!

Your guests were great. Well-spoken, thoughtful and warmly critical.

(posted this on another reviewer's comments as well, just so ya know) I knew a little going in, because I watched Daniel Greene's "let's summarize" series (over a year ago, since I never intended to read the books, and forgot most of it), and some of the basic lore of "how the world works" type stuff. After watching the series, I listened to the first audiobook (listened through the first 3 after posting this)... just to see how much they went off the rails. (I've also been watching Shad rightfully rip the series apart.) Impressions from watching: * The first episode contradicted known lore. (I was willing to let them play the "unreliable narrator card" once.) * The whole "men cause the taint" thing, and no differentiation between Saidar and Saidin, was repeated from the perspective of at least 2 Aes Sedai (Moiraine and Liandrin, perhaps different wordings, but the same idea came across to me). * The whole "the 'dragon reborn' can be either a man or a woman" thing just baffled me. This undermined a core element of the original lore that has HUGE implications in the world. * Moiraine must be the main character of the story. * The "aging up" and sexualization of certain relationships didn't work for me (especially the "love triangle", and knowing the amount of stress and tension there was in the original story about the coming of age story, not being able to talk to girls, sex before marriage being a massive taboo, etc) Things that would have made sense for a younger group to be important seemed really out of place for the group we saw on screen - it's like they were only aged up enough to have sex scenes, but remained early teens in everything else. * Rand was a non-character (and coward.) His reveal to be the Dragon Reborn was unsatisfying, relying on withheld information, incorrectly seen scenes - channeling in the ways, etc. * Perrin was a werewolf who was going to follow the way of the leaf to avoid transforming, like the incredible hulk. His murdering his wife seemed unnecessary unless it was an important event from the books that I didn't know about... * Mat was a creep. I know him to be a hero in later books (due to Daniel's "lets summarize" thing, and being his favorite character...) so, unclear how he'll recover from the dagger stuff... the show trying to say he'll go down the dark path just rings false, given my rough outline of later books... so not engaging to me. * Nynaeve was very powerful and stubborn and angry. (I guess they nailed her from what I hear.) * The Aes Sedai were a powerful group respected everywhere, except the borderlands, where stupid men don't want any help fighting the hordes of the dark one. * Whitecloaks could capture, torture, and kill people right outside the walls of Tar Valon, if they suspected them of being Aes Sedai... they must have a powerful country's backing to run around with impunity. * Tom was basically Aragorn as a cowboy thief who met Rand and Mat and then 'died.' (only think he doesn't die because he looks like Aragorn... and Daniel's summarize stuff mentions him again later.) * This Stepin guy must be an important char... nevermind. (Foreshadowing Rand/Egwene warder or Moiraine dying? I didn't pay that much attention to the "let's summarize" thing afterall.) * Pregnant battle lady was unrealistic and over the top. * The Logain stuff was mostly ok. * We finally get a reliable narrator - a DIRECT scene from 3000 years ago, not just a story... and it shows Lews Therin to be a stupid arrogant man that ruins a utopia, and he gets warned by a woman of the events that will unfold. (I know from Daniel's summary, that this is a totally false scene, so I'm not willing to let the writers slide with another "unreliable narrator" card, or some character perspective thing... this is twisting the original story of desperation and a final last plan, that succeeded! Lews did nothing wrong. And they kinda leave out the whole bore thing... and the women not helping, and the fact that the Dark One retaliated against the men's sealing him away, which added the taint to the Saidin. * Agelmar was a pompous idiot. * Where was Rand's moment to shine, showing how powerful he was when he went out of control with lightning and fire? And the whole sword of light thing... Overall takeaway: Men are stupid, arrogant, and ruined a utopia. Rand needs to follow the orders of the Aes Sedai to fix what Lews did wrong or something. (unclear what the Dragon Reborn needs to do, or what really happened at the eye of the world. Who was that guy? Why was he smiling? What is that broken rock?) "What's going on" moments after audio-reading the book(s) (and watching rant vids): * Rand didn't stand out at all. His little meltingpot of a crossroads town was home to a wide variety of people to blend in with. * The whole Perrin thing didn't work for me. They really gutted (intended) his story. In the book, he didn't have any leaning toward the way of the leaf, and already knew what he was, thanks to a character they never introduced to his story. * Moiraine's destroying the inn basically flies directly in the face of the fact that the Inn was one of the only remaining buildings after the attack in the book... not super important but... * Moiraine's injury just... doesn't make sense to add. I guess it stops her from doing her Gandalf impression, with the earthquake and wall of fire "you shall not pass" moment. * The dreams made no sense without any real confrontation. At this rate, they could have just given them the dream prophesy/message of the dark one wanting to blind the eye of the world... and potentially made that part of the Ta'veren thing. I dunno. That seemed to be a big reason for them meeting the tinkers, and Loial. (I forget who else had the same prophesy now.) * Tom didn't act as a mentor to Rand/Mat at all really. His character was a big "what's the deal here?" * The "relationship" between Moiraine and Siuan didn't work for me, since the book describes them talking about the men they'd marry... not something I'd expect that sort to talk about. (just finished listening to this part.) * Moiraine channeling to open the ways made no sense. Loial was there... let him (or Moiraine) find the leaf and use the leaf! And let him guide, not just read the guide stone once in the ways... * The Logain stuff, with him looking like some depressed, hollow, shell of a man, instead of a king basking in the glory of the praise of his people, despite being caged and being a sign of his going mad... because they decided to gentle him before getting to Tar Valon... just undercuts that part of him, and Rand's impression. * No Caemlan... the queen, the princess, ... no, Tar Valon instead... and they didn't even reach Tar Valon in the first book. * Fal Dara was a HUGE supporter of the Aes Sedai, welcoming their aid, and hoping Moiraine was there to help against the massing forces. When they learned of the mission, the king kept insisting on sending warriors to aid her in her battle... speaking of which... * Agelmar was a very good man, not pompous in the least, welcoming, understanding, supportive, and intelligent. * The Blight was not the blight I expected, nor was the eye of the world, or the lack of the green man. Why the Horn wasn't found in the protected resting place along with the flag... just makes no sense how it was under the throne... (especially given the first 5 chapters I've listened to of the 2nd book...) * Rand's decision to just go off to live as a hermit so he wouldn't hurt anyone as the Dragon... and Moiraine just letting him go, when we know she knew that was NOT the last battle... makes no sense at the finale... sure, she's stunned because she was shielded/stilled, whatever that didn't happen in the book... just... and I've even started into book 2, where he's wanting to do the same thing... but it's clear Moiraine isn't just letting him go entirely... there's a reason, and direction she's pointing him to take up the role of the Dragon Reborn, whether he likes it or not... They had the unique chance here, to go back and write "chapter 1" of the series, after knowing the ending, so they could have written something that really spoke to the overall themes of the story and the characters... and we got that thing instead. The theme from the book/series, of men and women working together... two halves of the whole... is fully and totally lost in this adaptation.

Thank you for doing this. I was very curious about what non-readers (of the WoT books) thought of the show! They all did great!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

They have such a different perspective which is really fun!

Best thing the show did was make a load of new readers.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

ABSOLUTELY. I can't tell you how many people have messaged me saying they are reading it because of the show. So that's a net win for us fans.

AJ is spot on. Especially about the feeling of a grand story teller with huge payoffs. You just don't feel that at all watching the show. And his take on the Aiel and the veil is clever too

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah and without those pay off's, I feel ultimately that's why even those with no skin in the games only felt like it was ok. It didn't pull enough emotions.

Great interviews! You have very cool friends! Even though they haven't read WoT ;)

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

We'll forgive them just this once for that 😂

Smart pretty not overly confident willing to take criticism, not flack like pronunciation and you’re a good friend you are an amazing person

"You're the one that gave us the illegal downloads of Mistborn" You're truly an icon.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I only feel brave enough to say that now that Sanderson has literally taken all of my money 😅😅

Hi. Really enjoying your channel and content. This was really interesting and what I thought was most revealing is that all three views agreed that the major changes such as Perrin's Wife "Arc", the whole ending and the added scenes around Tar Valon with the Warders all didn't work. These points are also what many readers (myself included, been reading them since i was a teen in the 90's) feel were poor decisions. Just makes me think what on earth the show runner/writers are even doing??

Hahaha the guy in the last interview w/ the prediction of the male & female linking. This guy is a wizard. Thanks for putting this together. It was interesting to see some non-book reader's perspective as I'm too embarrassed with it to encourage my non-book reader friends/family to watch it. I'm a huge WoT fan and read through the whole saga a good 7-8 times, and understand all the little intricacies/rules of the world to a fault probably where I nitpick a bit too much. It's all the little things and inconsistencies with the world that just drove me nuts (IE: The big plan being to give Rand a Sa'angreal completely shattering the impact of what those actually are and how they are relevant later. lolol). I also was okay and understood there would be changes with a film adaptation and was completely okay with that, but to me they removed big parts of the character development and world building and replaced it with something that just created massive inconsistencies with the fundamentals of the world and story over and over again. (IE: Not setting the stakes with the actual EOTW prologue showing the breaking and really explaining how being the Dragon is more of a curse than a blessing and showing exactly why, or the dragon can be a man or woman to play up the "who is the Dragon" question). I do hope S2 will be better with COVID restrictions relaxing and no major last minute writing w/ a main character leaving, but my expectations are now rock bottom unfortunately.

I can't wait to watch this video! Non-book readers seem overall to be much more positive on the series than book readers!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think that’s true of most adaptations because book readers get too attached to their own imaginings lol

@theabhorrentchef7226

2 жыл бұрын

Give an old flip phone to someone who’s never seen electronics and it will seem magical. Ignorance can be bliss in certain situations. Once you know what ‘really’ went down though in randland the show just hurts. I’ve never read the Witcher books though and the show has been enjoyable for me. Same with the expanse. I think show/movie first will be the best way to tackle any new adapted thing I come across.

Liked the different perspectives. I had it at 6/10 before episode 8, which dropped it to 5/10 for me. Do you watch Sanderson's YT channel? Sounds like he may have more input in season 2, although his take on TV series - it is a different turning of the wheel.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I love watching Sanderson's takes on the show. I wish they had listened to him more tbh lol. I mean Sanderson is my favorite author tho so I generally agree with him on how to tell stories!

@matthewschwoebel8247

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Random comment. My new puppy, Arnor, ran to the TV screen and stared at it when you started talking in this video. That lasted like 5 seconds, puppy attention span.

Always interesting to hear other peoples takes on the show. I seem to be in the minority of booktubers/bookstagrammers who didn’t feel overwhelmingly negative about the show. It was great but I thought it was good and fun (like 7-7.5/10) and am excited for season 2 🤷🏻‍♂️

I would love to hear Bradon's take on things after he reads the books. Any chance you might talk to him on your show?

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I asked him already if he'd come back on since a lot of people seem interested to hear his thoughts about the book! I just need to needle him in starting now lol

Completely agree with AJ. They aren't changing season 2 and they thought season 1 was great. My hope at this point is that it does get cancelled after season 3 so they don't ruin some of the story just to try and stay on the air. Im especially worried they will use Dumais wells as an attention grabber but not set it up or lay the groundwork.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

The more info I find out the more nervous I am for season 2. I guess we will jsut have to wait and see… hoping it’s less sloppy storytelling but not expecting it.

This was really interesting, thank you. However, during the interview with AJ and “it’s only a show” , it’s true, but I stay strong in my resolve that Rafe has done a bad job. I had a bitter hashtag #WokeOfRafe instead of wheeloftime for a reason… I would not give them a covid-pass of it. I think you did a splendid job with these interviews. The meltdown you mentioned in the first interview… I had the same, but all over.. I strongly agree with totally fine with the actors, but again - the changes for no apparent reason to characters and storyline… your brother-in-law put it true - will not be there for season two - and I tried hard to look as a non-reader - four times over for all episodes … 😂. Go books! I hope Rafe finds something he’s in my opinion better at than this. I enjoyed the guesswork on what’s on the horizon - because it’s obvious it’s not more than briefly based on wot :).

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I'm going to give season 2 a try but going to give myself the grace to quite at any time and not see it through. There's a chance it'll be so different that it won't even be possible for me to list the differences between it and the book anymore lol

Good comfortable interviewing and reviews… I like the non-reader perspective here

haven't read the books yet and I found the show forgettable, it's only been a few months and i've already forgotten half of what happened. Characters were mostly meh. I had no problem following the plot but they didn't make me care enough. I also had similar feelings for Dune, haven't read the book and know very little about it and the movie was just all setup and didn't really go anywhere.

@Raylen_Fa-ield

2 жыл бұрын

Good, it's for the best. That way if you ever do read the series it won't be spoiled/ ruined for you cus the show.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it seems like a lot of people feel like you do, which is a bad sign for the show - you had no reason to be critical of it (like book readers maybe) and yet you still thought it was average.

Really enjoyed everyone's thoughts! Everyone echoed some things that my wife and friends have been saying too. A lot of the things Brandon pointed out as being confusing lore-wise is also stuff my wife mentioned...a lot of stuff was just very unclear. When my friend asked why the Whitecloaks were able to just chill outside the White Tower, I was like "uhhh? Cuz" AJ's point about how the writing was just consistently the problem is the biggest issue, I think. Also your brother-in-law's takes are hilarious! His roasting of Rand was great. Can he be a regular feature? Also glad everybody is fully on board that this Perrin wife situation is atrocious. One thing I'd disagree with you and AJ on is the Aiel/face thing. I get that there's lore around them always having their faces covered, but I'd agree with the cinematographer in this case. TV is a visual medium and the scene is more dynamic with the actress being able to react with her whole face, I don't see any version of this happening where they allowed her face to be covered xD it's just how TV works, I guess? Maybe when the Aiel are more plot relevant they will pay more attention to this..

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

DARTH VADER.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Anyway also, I do think it's super interesting that everyone hates Perrin's wife dying whether they read the book or not. It's just so clear they did not deliver on that story line.

@readbykyle3082

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I didn't say you could NEVER have masked characters :p just that that scene would have been worse with a face covering. Ya dang nerds, always bringing up Darth Vader.

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@@readbykyle3082 Ah, come on, Kyle! You gotta admit, she REALLY "pegged" you with that "Darth Vader" reply! I also happen to agree that we did NOT really need to see her face... but they could have used a half-transparent veil as a sort of compromise.

I found this fascinating, great diversity of non-reader viewpoints and everyone was very well spoken! My experience is that I was up to Book Eight when the show started releasing, and I kept saying to my partner who hasn't read it, 'I'm almost certain that didn't happen'. As someone who had only done one read of the books the season was based on, I found it more confusing than my non-reader friends and relatives. The character changes were more frustrating than plot or setting compression, I could handle that if the characters felt right. All in all, I enjoyed the show for what it was, but felt that Episode 8 in particular was a huge letdown. I hope Season 2 is an improvement, it has so much potential to be good!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think most readers and non readers agree that episode 8 really lost it. Which is a pity, because I think if it hit it out of the park I'd feel completely different about the entire season.

Nice video. I like the approach, here. I'm a book reader, and my wife and son are show watchers (defining them by what they did, rather than what they didn't do). I found it interesting to see what landed well with me vs what landed well with them. I also saw the conversation with Brandon and Dan on their podcast, Intentionally Blank. In one part, Brandon said that he thought something landed well, and Dan reacted by saying that he didn't know it was a thing, so it did not land for him at all. Dan had read the first book, but not the whole series. Anyway, my point is that we all can watch the same show and have a very different experience. Personally, I went into the show knowing that it would be different. I've been that person who watched a screen adaptation and complained about everything that was different. I've decided to no longer be that person, as I can get much more entertainment out of it if I accept it for what it is rather than criticize it for what it isn't. With that in mind. I loved that they captured the characters. After all, the WOT characters are my old friends. I didn't have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out which one is which. They were presented in a way that I immediately knew who each of them was. They were in different situations, traveled a different path, and other changes were made to their environment, but they still were true to the people I knew from the books. And, yes, I recognize that some characters are different. Mad had a very different upbringing, and at least one wife was added to this story. Even so, Perrin is slow and careful about every decision he makes, being careful not to hurt anybody. Mat has an unhealthy obsession with the dice to go with his sense of humor. Hopefully they are playing the slow game and resolve some of the things that you talked about in this video. On screen, they haven't shown us Perrin's thought process, so maybe that's still coming. It would be nice to see it all come together.

I have read them all, twice. And watched the show. I respect your opinion and your friends. I absolutely loathed the books. Every single one of them. For multiple reasons. I agree with you first interviewee. Thom was the only character in the book and the show I could stand for any length of time. In both the books and the show. Have a good day.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I can’t believe you read the entire series twice if you hated it! I don’t think the books are for everyone so I get it!

@timothymcrae77

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I read them waaaaay back in the day when I was in college. The 13th or 14 book had just been published and a female friend of mine encouraged me to read them. (We weren't really dating at the time but she was really cool and way cute so... I read them) Sadly I hated them, and thus our love wasn't to blossom. But she's still a friend so I don't blame her. But then fast forward to 2020 and I was stuck at home for two solid years! So what's a slightly nerdy not at all middle aged guy to do... I read them again. Surely they couldn't have been as bad as I remembered. Well they were, and don't call me Shirley. Lol. But I do appreciate your channel and the fact that we all have different views. So keep being awesome ma'am.

@timothymcrae77

2 жыл бұрын

Oh my god, I can't believe how old I am. I just had to check to make sure I was right. It was book 7. Book seven was out and book eight came out like a month after I started reading them. Tragic, just plain tragic.

I watched the show with my wife both of us not being readers of the books. We were both interested but confused through most of the season. Everything felt about the show just felt off not bad but not good. It kind of makes me think of a Dutch angle were you see everything but in a weird way. As we were going though the season I was watching shad break it down between each episode which deffanatly pointed out how bad (compared to the books) it is. I'm on book 5 now and I'm hooked and have no hope for this show. Ps I thought it was funny how in the middle interview you both were talking about the aiel and her sword several times. Pss watched all your differences videos and really enjoyed them as well as this video. Keep up the good work.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I have to admit I love hearing people who go and read the books because of the show and then LOVE them. Always like getting new WOT fans!

1.) Was it difficult to convince your friends/family to make these reaction videos? 2.) Aj's thoughts on Tigraine's scene and the veil were something I didn't think much on but he raises an excellent point. 3.) I'd definitely say you should make a similar video again after season 2, assuming they haven't read the great hunt beforehand. 4.) Although I found your brother-in-law's predictions to be interesting (no hate), I really hope prediction #2 doesn't happen in the show, although I could see it happening.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

There was one friend I couldn't convince to come on even though I tried 😂 But these three were very gracious and agreed right away! I agree about number 4 LOL - since he hasn't read the books, he has no reason to hate the idea of a multi-dragon, but us book readers would DIE.

Well I read a lot but somehow haven't gotten to Wheel of Time yet. Mainly because the series is so long and the apparent slog later on in the series. But I might wanna dive into them and judge for myself. As for the show, it is literally the worst show I've seen in a while. Obviously I can't judge how it handled the source material but this show was just bad. The characters are flat. I really didn't give a fuck about any of the characters by the final episode, so that is a huge letdown in itself. Also, the show looks so fake. Terrible set designs, seriously. It looks so plastic despite the mega budget. The world seems to lack depth despite the fact that the books are famed for having a rich world. I know this shouldn't be compared, but I'm anxious for how the LOTR show will turn out, since it is made by Amazon as well. I don't have to see adaptations of popular franchises anymore, just make something new or adapt something that isn't that well known yet. The Witcher on Netflix is another example on how to fail as an adaptation. I've read the books and it is safe to say the show has absolutely nothing to do with the books anymore. I would go on and say it is a disrespectful adaption, since it completely neglects the Polish and Slavish aspects that are present in the books. It does nothing to represent the people it is based on, which is just disgusting. Now, Im not saying WOT has that same issue, but I think it's a damn lazy show. And despite that it is still successful because people will watch it anyway, even though they are lukewarm on it. I've never seen a show with main characters that are this bland. In my opinion, Wheel of Time by Amazon is a summary of everything wrong with Hollywood nowadays. It's a lazy cash grab based on a beloved fantasy series.

@Raylen_Fa-ield

2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you felt that way. As an avid fan of the book series, the show was a slap in the face. You think the witcher season 2 messed up, imagine events like eskels death but occuring multiple times per episode. That's what the wot tv show was like. They really set the tone by giving one of the main characters (Perrin) a wife he never had, then killing her in same ep she is introduced. I would say give the books a shot. I'd say at least the first one if not the first 3. Hahaha fun task, read first book in tandom with the show. You'll see all the f-ups

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah the WOT is hard to want to start because look, 14 books is just a huge commitment, especially when they are all 800+ pages. I'm trying to give each show it's own chance. I'm reminding myself that I loved Amazon's Good Omens, so there's still a chance LOTR can turn out well, especially since it's not directly adapting anything.

AJ's suggestion for having Shaiel take a wound because she takes the time to veil herself really says it all about this show. It's the kind of thing RJ would have included if a director had said "I'd really like for us to be able to see her face", but there's nobody on RJ's level as a storyteller on that production team.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

It only takes one good idea to realize how many ways the show could've stayed more true to the books while just being more interesting and compelling in general

@joshuamchenry5657

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully this is fixed if they show Perrin freeing the Aiel from the cage.

I haven't read the books, but the show made me want to read them to see the differences and how it compares. I feel like if the show had committed to explore a different narrative, it would have been super interesting. Like, instead of having ye ol' hero's journey, we have Moiraine finding who is the hero to begin with; and if they had gone with that storyline for a couple episodes, introducing the watcher to the world, the people, the rules for channelling, the stakes!, it would have been waaaay more interesting. But since they went for showing the hero on the first couple minutes after the intro, that was ruined. I then thought it was going to be sort of like a "who done it", of who's the Dragon Reborn, but again, it was super obvious it was Rand from the very first episode. And then I thought that if they showed that the Dragon is all four of them (then casually just saying five), then Moiraine would explain their importance and train/mentor them, since she kept bringing up that they all would die (except for the Dragon) after going to the eye of the world. But in the end, I didn't know the stakes, I didn't know the importance, the rules for channelling because they kept changing and the five were unnecessary because it was only two and three random untrained channelers the heroes of the day. It was a very disappointing show to be honest.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly even as a book reader I think if they had just chosen to go WAY different it would've worked better. Like I could see a show that only focused on the Aes Sedai being very interesting. The thing is they went a weird "too close yet too far" from the book that left it in this weird nothing of a show.

"They need to knock it out of the park with season 2" and "They started filming season 2 before season 1 was released" puts me right in the boat with you on the level of hope I have. In order to get people to watch, they have to care about the characters. I went into it understanding that some of the side stories and minor characters would be cut or merged. Maybe some of the later books could have been merged into one season where we don't need an entire episode dedicated to Egwene's attire. But, with only 8 episodes, they should have only made it halfway through the first book to establish the characters. Had the final episode of the first season been the battle of Fal Dara with Rand destroying the trolloc armies, that could have been a nice bow to tie off a season where they had time to establish character motivations and personalities and fleshed out the lore. I'm curious how many people have watched the animated "Origin Story" shorts Amazon buried in the "extras". I rarely hear them mentioned, but they did help season 1 somewhat. I have no problems with the actors. I think they've done a good job with the material they've been given. I think the level of issues caused by COVID have been downplayed - like them literally not being able to get actors into the country to film because of flight restrictions - like them not being able to get a set full of extras and so on. The ONLY reason I'm even giving season 2 a chance to redeem the series is in hopes they'll do a TON of flashbacks. I seriously think they should leave the tidal wave as a cliffhanger resolved in season 3 and spend ALL of season 2 fleshing out the characters and lore. We'll see...

It sure did for me! It was the final push to commit to reading the entire series, and while it's evident since the first chapters how some things are different, I am loving it!

Just starting the video, but there are so many people on KZread who reacted to the series as non book readers and really loved it! It really helped me to watch those for the whole week leading up to the next one! One channel, Nerdy Nightly, loved the show so much that they decided to start reading after the show finished. Though they agree the last episode was very disappointing.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! I followed Reddit threads who mentioned a lot of them. Seeing non book readers reactions is very fun.

@gilian2587

2 жыл бұрын

They are a sweet married couple. I like their videos a lot, as well.

@maxdelpo5578

2 жыл бұрын

They are amazing, I agree. I love to see new WoT fans

Is there a followup video to this after the non readers have finished reading the first book (or the whole series)? I'm really curious to see how/if their opinions change.

This is a lot more than anything my friends and family have had to say about the show, just a grunt or a shrug when I brought it up. The complete opposite of how they are with other shows. I suspect by now they couldn't remember anything that happened in the series...

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I just force my friends into this 🤣

book reader here (well, first 7 books, and currently having another go at the series...the slog is a real roadblock), and my feeling was that the first 7 episodes were mediocre-average television when considered on their own merits (but awful as an adaptation of WoT) and episode 8 was dogshit from both angles. One of my biggest issues with the show was the number of changes made to the books...without appearing to actually consider the ramifications of those changes beyond the immediate consequences, leading to even scenes that *are* more or less book accurate working very, very poorly. For instance: - Moiraine being injured/unconscious, and Lan making the decision to take the party to Shadar Logoth creates knock-on problems because suddenly Moiraine is out of action, thus no wards against Mashadar, thus no need for the trollocs to appear to create the impetus for them to flee (and be separated) makes Lan look like an absolute idiot for deciding to take them there and stay the night. - The Whitecloaks being actual (effective) witch hunters who can and do capture, torture, and burn alive full aes sedai (and presumably also any novices or aspirants making their way to the Tower) makes their (tolerated) presence just outside of Tar Valon nonsensical (vs. in the books where they have no defence against the Power, and are terrified of Aes Sedai until things go enough to hell for them to get a bit bolder). - Having Lan and Nynaeve sleep together makes his speech to her the next day (despite being ripped word for word from the books) land way differently, and gives the impression that he was just using her and (now that he's gotten what he wanted) dumping her. all of which gives the show a very lazy and slapped-together feeling. I also watched the show with my girlfriend (not a book reader) and kept having to explain things to her, because the show did a very poor job of letting us know the very fundamental elements of the worldbuilding, like 1) the nature of the power (and that it does in fact have a male and a female half) 2) the nature of the dark one 3) the narrative significance of the dragon 4) what the taint is and why it's important. The show fails to establish these very important building blocks, which is *especially* important if they also intend to make massive changes to the book lore (frankly, I'm still not sure if the existence of Saidar/Saidin *is* canon in the show, they were very wishy washy on that point). Like, it's never *good* to rely on outside material to explain your worldbuilding, but it is especially bad when you are simultaneously making large changes to the plot (which alienate book readers and also make it unclear what aspects of the book's worldbuilding *do* still apply) and also trying to draw in a broader audience (who definitely will not have the context to fill in the things you omit). And that's just the tip of the iceberg, there's also the writers' apparent misunderstanding of Moiraine's role in the story (she is not and cannot be the main character, and her entire arc in the books is centred around her learning that this is not her story, she is not in control, and she needs to find a way to swallow her pride and contribute to *Rand's* story) and the weird blend of misogyny and misandry that weaves it's way through the show (one apparently intended, the other likely not).

@christianrapper

2 жыл бұрын

Moraine is definitely NOT the main character of this series. We aren’t in rand’s head like in the books. They can’t just have everything from his perspective like in the books.

@feistierthread294

2 жыл бұрын

@@christianrapper moiraine is very much the focal point of the season, as demonstrated by her huge amount of screen time and the fact that she is one of only two characters to get any kind of character focus (she gets most of episode 6 just dedicated to her relationship with the Tower and with Siuan). This is not a case where Moiraine is being used to provide an alternative viewpoint or external viewing perspective on the actual main characters, she is drawing focus and screentime away from those characters (to the great detriment of the show).

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Someone made the interesting point that they think one reason moraine got such a big role is because Pike is such a big actress and they didn’t want to waste her. But there are plenty examples of iconic actors in iconic roles that get little screen time… so I always feel that’s weird. I love Pike and her bigger role COULD’VE worked but they didn’t balance things right. Plus all the inconsistencies you said that are going to be hard to explain away later

@feistierthread294

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn there were honestly a fair number of scenes/plotlines that I thought were pretty decent on their own, but *in no way* should have made it into this season, and I feel like many of Pike's scenes fall into this category. She's a good actress, and I *generally* like her portrayal of moiraine (she's a bit emotional, but that may just be a medium change thing), it's just that she should not have drawn so much focus away from the actual main plot and characters with her white tower / logain / Siuan subplot. The show spent more time developing *Siuan*, a supporting character to moiraine, than it did Perrin or even (arguably Rand). I honestly have nothing against the stepin storyline in principle, or the moiraine/Siuan romance, or tar valon politics or the tinkers, etc (they each had their silly moments, but overall they were pretty decent) but they *did not belong* in a show that was already scrambling for screentime and which needed to actually establish the world and the main characters properly In terms of Pike herself, I've heard some talk that she's got some degree of control over the project (and may have provided funding?) Which may explain the shift in focus to her character. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, but if so that would be...concerning...to me.

When I found he read redwall, I shouted for joy to myself... on of my top 5 favorite series Highly recommend it. It's like the animal fables but in the medival era

I also started the WoT books after episode 4. Episode 4 is what won me over to the series. I finished all 15 audiobooks in less than two months after that.

wow your brother sounds exactly like a long term book fan. so interesting he thinks almost all the same things book readers think

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Other than his theory about a split dragon (which book readers would hate). But yes his description of Lan’s scene had me howling 😂

@dinocollins720

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn Hilarious. Yeah, it's a pretty good theory tbh though given other decisions showrunners made. I made my mom watch and she came up with the same theory. Well... she guessed all of them or Rand because "the chosen one always has to be the most beautiful person." haha smh

Will we get a book review from Brandon? I also hope to see AJ in your channel again!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

So many people have asked, so I will for sure be forcing him to come on again 😂

Incoming wall of text responding *some* of the points each brought up. Brandon : "I give it a 6/10" This broke my heart because it ranks so much lower (2/10 if that), and I hope he sees that after reading the series. As well as him preferring the 'filler' episodes in the white tower that in and of itself tells you how much the season one was overall. And the sadness of him not having an emotionally connect to Loial also so much. , also shows a failing and how rushed everything was. AJ : The reason the first book was not quite 'overwhelming' I can say that is due to how Jordan still believed at that time this would only be a trilogy as he originally intended. Once he realized it was going to be so much more in scope. If you keep reading the series you will quickly see how truly brilliant it all is. Also while the GoT show "pathed the way" tv wise. WoT was put to page first (by 3 years) and far eclipsed sales from the start and even after the show. Also as one more aside : As much as a trope the "mysterious mentor" is, Moraine is widely considered the best of them. Some of my favorite and emotional moments in the whole series are directly due to her presence Adam: His criticism of the cadence and story telling is spot on, amen. Especially his words on Lan at the funeral. But the whole multi-headed Dragon theory would make a show already teetering on the edge completely irredeemable in the book Fans' minds, Anyways, I am still waiting for Rafe to apologize to the fans because we deserve it.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I think hearing about how they liked the Aes Sedai more or how the multi-headed dragon sounds cool is interesting because they don't have any reason NOT to like/want that stuff, you know? With no connection to the books, you might think it's possible. But that's also a good way to show writing failure if what readers care about in the books aren't what show watchers care about in the show - it implies a lack of balance and focus.

@bluelight17

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn I didn't mind viewers speculating about a multi-headed dragon, it was fun, but when Moiraine talked about it in the show i couldn't believe it, like seriously? What are they, some kind of horcrux, they have 1/5 of a soul each? It's like there is seriously zero lore.

@nyetzdyec3391

2 жыл бұрын

@Pec TheMage Don't expect an apology from Rafe, ever. In one of his tweets, he was positively gleeful about looking forward to pissing off the book fans.

I think that the major difference between 'The Wheel of Time' and 'The Song of Ice & Fire' adaptations is that 'Game of Thrones' is a faithful adaptation of a faithless author's work, and 'The Wheel of Time' is a faithless adaptation of a faithful author's work.

I never heared of the WOT before the movie came out but I loved the first season so much! Watched it 11 times before I’ve decided to actually purchased the books and start reading it( currently at book 4)

To answer the question: no. Didn't read the book, gave up on episode 4.

Great to see non-readers backing up all our criticisms. This is all the proof we need that we’re not just being purists, their changes were legitimately awful for everyone! Just trust that the author knew what he was doing already! The arrogance of the writers is astounding!

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

yes, this. I think it's so easy to write off all book fans (even when we are trying to be reasonable) but when you see non-readers who have no stakes in this ALSO say it's only ok...you need to listen to that.

It's a 6-7 for me too. and hopeful it'll grow higher. Many things pick up on later seasons. Heck, even The Last Airbender starts off slow, but ends up easily being 10/10 for MANY ppl. Haha also your brother in law looks so much like Zack I was like "wait did she say brother? oh, right, brother in law, that makes sense"

@Asteczz

2 жыл бұрын

So true

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

lol I was waiting for people to say that about Adam. They get that ALL the time.

I loved the video. Great content. IMO season 2 is a make or break season. The fact that they began filming before they received audience feedback is saddening. I do not have a lot of confidence in Rafe. He seems in way over his head.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Ever since I found out they started filming before season 1 was over, my hope tanked quite a bit 😬 But...maybe because TGH is a more exciting book, that'll trickle through to the show...

@noodlemans

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn the rumor is that they will combine book 2 and 3 into season 2. Basically the hunt for the horn and Rand getting calandor will conclude in the same location, either Falme or Tear. If this is true, I’m not sure how I feel about it.

Just found your channel. I am a book reader and gave it maybe a 4/10 as a WoT adaptation, but trying to picture it as a totally new fantasy series thought I'd give it a 7/10, the ending maybe drags that down, but I was fine for most and trying not to deduct too much for the covid issues. Was interesting to hear that even the nonbook readers only gave it around a 6/10 and did not like the new additions. I thought a lot of the other fan review channels over bashed the show, calling it things like 1/10 or disgraceful seem overexaggerated. The book is so darn long (and frankly not the best of the WoT books either), so of course there had to be adaptations and not be scene for scene translated, I liked that your channel comments tended to accept that as given as well. For example, I thought episode 4 was mostly amazing and those segments were not from the book, but true enough. And yet it was directly followed by a useless episode that squandered precious time on a nonbook character, who it turns out even new viewers didn't care about either. If whoever wrote ep4 did the rest of the series at that same quality I think the show could have been a 9.

@Bookborn

Жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more. I was expecting decent changes going into the show, and was even feeling positive about them because I think the books could not be adapted, like you said, scene-for-scene. I just think they just really weird things to change that don't make sense with the wider story - that are short-sighted. Overall I didn't think the season was a disaster until episode 8 - then I sort of gave up haha. I'm interested in Season 2, though, I don't think it's so far gone it can't come back.

Thank you for your time and perspectives. Adding more views on the show was interesting. I have started reading book 12, the Sanderson books after your positive remarks on his material. Just couldn't fi d reason got finish the books after Master Robert Jordan passed, so Thank you for that. Will pick up Mistborn and see from there. Cannot wait for a follow up view from Brandon after he has read EOTW. Problem though is in my view, the fantasy landscape has changed so much that the classics, because of pacing, just won't love up to expectations. My views. Lastly, great videos... and a question? What did you think of the Janny Wurts and Raymond Feists Empire series if you read them? With all the fantasy politics. How would that translate to an adaptation, considering everyone loved the tower politics of WOT? Congratulations Brandon on the birth of you child.....

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I hope you like the Sanderson WOT books! I can imagine how hard it would be to want to pick them up after going on a journey with an author for so long. I'm sorry, I haven't read either of those books!

@gilian2587

2 жыл бұрын

I admit that I haven't read Raymond E Feist's Empire series; but I have read the Magician's Apprentice, Magician's Master, Silverthorn, and A Darkness at Sethanon; along with his much darker Serpentwar saga. It's probably safe to say, I like Raymond E Feist's books very much. I think bookborn would enjoy the first set of novels that I mentioned; they aren't particularly dark at all. Serpentwar, however, is pushing into grimdark territory.

Everyone in my circle who didn’t read the books loved the show. My wife and 2 of my friends have started to read the books because of the show. They didn’t take my advice years ago to read them, the show did it lol. It’s great and sucks at the same time because now I’m re reading again with them as a mini book club, but sucks because I was just about to start Rhythm of War. Ahh well. Stormlight can be put off for a little.

@theabhorrentchef7226

2 жыл бұрын

Rhythm is a little tough to get through. Some preparatory wheel of time may strengthen your heart and resolve.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

Ok well first I loved Rhythm of War so don't listen to this person 🤣 It was my second favorite of the SA books so far (although I think that's legit an unpopular opinion so maybe listen to The Abhorrent Chef). That's my favorite thing about the show, honestly - so many people are reading it now because of it! So that was a huge success in that way

@fy4b230

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn yup. That’s how I got over my problems with the show and just went for a pure entertainment factor. That and I was looking forward to the adaptation of EoTW because well, it’s a hard book to adapt imo and one of the weakest. I’m excited to see what they have in store for the next 5 books culminating with Dumai Wells. That scene is gonna be so brutal. Funny thing was I was already re reading WoT. I just finished LoC. I was going to change up and read Rhythm, but now I’m going back to EoTW to read with my friends and family. First world problems.

I'm curious if you did get Brandon to read the books and whether you interviewed him afterwards. Would be really interesting to hear the perspective of someone who came to the book series from that direction.

@Bookborn

2 ай бұрын

He has read the first one! I need to get him back on

I’m curious, did Brandon watch the lore animations that accompanied the show? I wonder if they had (or would have) any impact on his comments about the lack of lore in the show.

@Bookborn

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll ask him. I wish we could get data on how many people watched those - and demographics. Book readers? Casual viewer? My guess is unless you were super into the show as a casual viewer, you didn’t watch the extras

@bluelight17

2 жыл бұрын

@@Bookborn At first they were also really hard to find, which is a pity cause they are really well done.