The Belgians needed such a BIG CHUNGUS locomotive for all their steeply graded lines over the huge mountains that Belgium is so famous for... 😂😂😂

@matsv201

Жыл бұрын

Maybe the cross.over the bordets to netherlands at times

@federicoghisafi3384

Жыл бұрын

In fact it was meant for freight on alps. It was designed by italians

@keiranallcott1515

Жыл бұрын

I thought they would need it for their Belgium chocolate trains

@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis

Жыл бұрын

@@federicoghisafi3384that makes sense.

@nielsleenknegt5839

7 ай бұрын

Oh no, we made that thing cus we could.

as an Australian it feels great to know that 2 of our locos are in the top 5 Most Powerful steamers (that aren't American) out there, also Belgium, what were you planning with that thing.

@megladon6

Жыл бұрын

Makes sense. Strong locomotives need long stretches of straight lines. Australia is the perfect runner-up when it comes to long straight tracks. Russia gets an honorable mention when you get past the Urals.

@QLDrailfan798

Жыл бұрын

@@megladon6 thinking about it... yea we do have flat plains here soo I don't see why we shouldn't have big engines.

@Phoenix_emperor76

Жыл бұрын

We were erunk when designing it alright

@obelic71

Жыл бұрын

The most heavy trains in Belgium were the Steel, Iron ore trains from the Liege (steelmills) to Antwerp (seaport) The coal was mined also mined in and around Liege.

@liammatthews5656

10 ай бұрын

He missed out the NSWGR D57, though - so it's actually 3 of 5, not 2 of 5

Dear history in the dark , great video , two things that I would like to add about the ad60 Garratts, 6029 is about to run to the blue mountains with 3801. When they were ordered , we had on the nswgr , the d57 and d58 class which matched the garratts in terms of power output but were too heavy for branch lines. And curtains lines , such as the short north to Newcastle , where garratts were used for the big coal trains from fassifern. I’m a bit surprised that the Canadian 2-10-4 or i believe there are known as the seirkirk locomotives didn’t make the list.

Good to see the AD60 getting the respect it deserves.

I think LNER U1 should have taken the place of the AA-20 cause the U1 has a tractive effort of 72,940 lbf so 1000 lbf more than that Soviet AA-20

@bussesandtrains1218

11 ай бұрын

Really!

@neilsonthegreat

11 ай бұрын

@@bussesandtrains1218 yeah

@hummingbird9149

11 ай бұрын

The list is odd, as for one the first mentionedDRG Class 45 has well over 300 kN tractive effort, not 245 kN. Even the quite numerous Class 44, of which examples still run, clocks in at a nominal 291 kN. So yeah, not sure he got his figures from

The United Kingdom does in fact have a dog in this fight, in the form of Gresley's U1. Even in the post steam era not many things surpassed it in terms of tractive effort!

Impressive! Though you missed one in the #2 spot. The SAR GL Class Garratt, blowing the NSW Garratt out of the water with 78,650 lbf (349.9 kN)! I do love that a Garratt managed to get on this list, though :).

@shaunbrierley5864

Жыл бұрын

The East African Railways 59 class 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 Garratt was even more powerful, with a tractive effort of 83,350 lbf

@user-gz6hn1kb4y

Жыл бұрын

dont forget 59 class from Kenya. South African GMAM' are also stronger than the AD 60

@nigelslade5276

11 ай бұрын

All 59 class garratts were modified with Giesl ejector and gained another 3-4 % more power @@shaunbrierley5864

@ianmandy127

8 ай бұрын

And a gl is on a 3foot 6 inch line, very impressive for that gauge

@ianmandy127

8 ай бұрын

@@shaunbrierley5864 but it was oil fired i think where the gl was coal fired

Is nobody gonna talk about the LNER U1 garratts, it was the most powerful steam locomotive in Great Britain (possibly in Europe). I feel the Brits could have had a chance to be in the list after all.

@sawspitfire422

Жыл бұрын

72,940lbs of tractive effort, should be ahead of that ghastly AA-20

@crocowithaglocko5876

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@MercenaryPen

Жыл бұрын

to be fair, the U1 is a relatively obscure locomotive (similarly to the LMS Garratt that did banking duties on the Lickey incline), Darkness may not have been aware of the class

@kisarabanuja3254

Жыл бұрын

@@MercenaryPen I am pretty sure he has mentioned both the classes of Garratts in his previous videos.

@neiloflongbeck5705

Жыл бұрын

​@@MercenaryPenso? I'd not heard of the Class 45 before today 9r the AD60. As he's covered the U1 before, your defence is laughable.

Um yes, I'm completely speechless! Belgium!? But it would be somehow cool to see the locomotive as a replica. Oh yes, the video was of course great as always and I think almost everyone could learn something!

Most of the AD60's "branch line service" was coal haulage, my late Grandfather used to drive them from collieries around Lake Macquarie and the Mandalong Valley on occasion when he wasn't driving C36/38 passenger runs or the newer diesels.

Regarding the "most powerful Garratt ever", the NSWGR AD60's are a close second to the Bengal Nagpur Railway class P - double mountain, at 69,655 lbf (309.84 kN).

Idk if Canada counts as not us but the Canadian Pacific Selkirks had a tractive effort of around 75,771

The Victorian Railways H class, Heavy Harry H 220, may have the others beat on the basis of the 3,600 HP recorded at 50 mph with a dynamometer car on a test run. Pity the other 3 planned H class were not built and the streamlining planned not proceeded with in war time conditions. Written by someone who climbed into the massive firebox and the huge water space of the tender of H 220 as a kid in the newly opened North Williamstown Railway Museum near me. Not that you can do that sort of thing anymore.

@PiersDJackson

Жыл бұрын

From a "What if..." perspective, if VR had continued with their intentions for the construction of minimum four H classes and an additional six S classes... to be named: S304 George Bass, S305 Hamilton Hume, S306 John Batman, S307 John Pascoe Fawkner, S308 Sir Redmond Barry, and S309 William Lonsdale; H220 George Higginbotham, H221 Sir Ferdinand Von Mueller, H222 Peter Lalor, and H223 Alfred Deakin. If you wonder why they're these names? They're the next names in the replacement S class Diesel-Electrics... then swapping over to the H for the "second series".

@wezza60

11 ай бұрын

Sad the beautiful VR S class pacifics were all scrapped before the preservation era, Luckily H220 survived.

as an Aussie, I am impressed how powerful some of our locos are. and if your wondering what the AD60s are, they are basically the Beyer-Garratts from the UK and southern Africa, but Aussie as well as like 2x more powerful! I am also a huge fan of the AD60 class. Also, for the next episode of the best train locos series, please include 3801 if you haven't in a prior episode. I havent watched them all yet because there are so many, but if you havent already include 3801 in the next episode.

At 72,940lbs TE, the U1 just gotta be an omission. Is one loco a 'class'? Edit: with 78, 940lbs @75% BP, surprised the SAR Class GL 4-8-2+2-8-4 didn't make the cut. A great example of what happens when a Garratt is designed by people who know what they're doing (Yes, LMS Garratts .... I'm looking at you), the GL class retired in the early 1970s, with over 40 years of the heaviest traffic on the SAR behind 'em .... and even then, only because there wasn't any work left needing steam haulage.

I feel it makes sense no British locos ended up here. First of all our routes have very short distances between major junctions and stations compared to USA and Australia. Secondly our hills simply aren't as big as other places. The steepest grades on UK mainlines are only sustained for 5 miles or less, the famous Lickey incline only being 2 miles. Speed and acceleration has always been a more pressing factor for British rails than sheer slogging tractive effort, especially since even in the age of steam passenger travel made up a large portion of traffic on the lines. Even freight jobs had to perform quick dashes between sidings to clear the main for express passenger trains across a lot of the network, it's just how our railways were run. Edit: except LNER U1 which should be in second place on this list.... I mean if AA-20 is here U1 should be too

@markbarrile2930

Жыл бұрын

I think one of the major factors limiting UK freight loco power was the lack of braked goods rolling stock. Having a loco that could drag a 1000 ton train wasn't much good it you couldn't stop it. Add to that the much smaller loading gauge that restricted having big big cylinders and the UK loco's were always going to be lower powered than their US or Australian contemporaries. That said, as far as efficiency and speed, UK stuff has it hands down. Long live the Duchess!

DRG!!! DRG!!! DRG!!! Class 45!!! Thank you SO MUCH Darkness for including my country!^^❤🎉😊

where is the SNCF 241s?

Oh hey H220 "Heavy Harry" again

An a quadruplex.....they just dent get enough hugs when it was still the little engine that could. great video 👍👍👍👍

If you ever make a second one of these, you should definitely include the Soviet P38 locomotive. She was a 2-8-8-4, and had a tractive effort of 91,018 lbs (44913.86 kg) they only ever built 4 of them. From what I've found, she actually worked, unlike the massive AA-20.

class 45 One of the few locomotives that I have seen live at the Eisenbahn Treffen in Bavaria,👍🏻🚂

I remember seeing the 45 class when I was 6 it was my favorite locomotive

Extreme missed opportunity to not include the NSB Class 49, the largest and strongest steam locomotive in Norway, which had a tractive effort of 468kN.

First , the Belgien quadruplex could pull around 420kN or 92500lbs. The russian Yellowstone P38 449,65kN or 99042lbs. EAR class 59 Garrett 378kN / 83260lbs . And my favorite loco SNCF 160 A 1 , a 2-12-0 6hv pull 360kN /79295lbs.

Huh. I woulda thought that Bertha would have snuck into #5. Guess not lol.

You should take a look at the NSW D57 class, which was surprisingly more powerful than the AD60s

The strongest steam locomotive I'm aware of from outside of the USA was a 4-8-2-2-8-4 Garratt built by Beyer Peackock for the Soviets. It had around 90,000 lbs of tractive effort, and I think it was also the largest steam locomotive in Europe at the time.

@TheHoveHeretic

Жыл бұрын

That one seems to have died a quiet death in the Soviet Union. AFAIK, not other Garratt trod SZD rails. Garratts always seemed better suited to warmer climes!

@PiersDJackson

Жыл бұрын

Along the lines of Garratts, David Wardale was contracted to do his development magic, for the Chinese Government Railways. In an effort to stop doubleheading of QJ class locomotives, he proposed building a Garratt reusing components of two QJ's. It is surmised that a prototype was built, but did not proceed due to government changes, and Wardle moving on. It would have been a 2-10-2+2-10-2, with four cylinders of 25.59" × 31.50" each, with a new build 94" diameter boiler, 132 ft² firebox, at 255psi, and mechanical stoker. The projected output was 126,470 lbf tractive effort and between 4950 Hp and 7150 Hp...

you said useful in regards to a train! you're transformation into the fat controller is complete

When the AD60s popped up, I had to refrain from going "Aussie Aussie Aussie!"

"Why belgium, why?" "Because why not?" Refuses to elaborate.

14:19 What...Just...WHAT?!? I can't, I just can't comprehend the fact that kind of locomotive exsists.

I'd like to see more Chinese engines in your channel. There are some good examples. China designed a freight locomotive based on soviet FD engine and AV engine. The interesting thing is... it has more tractive power than AA20. Both engines has 20t axis load, one is 4-12-4 and 208t in engine weight, another is 2-10-2 and 134t in engine weight. AA20 is designed to have 320kN tractive effort, which it has never reached in actual use. While Qianjin has a 340kN tractive effort, although being a small engine comparing to American monster locomotives. It's designed to have 2980 horsepower, brought by well-designed firebox capable to chewing down almost any kind of coal better than lignite and peat, and sometimes may exceed the designed power output when running in good conditions. One of the commonly used tricks back in Mao era, was that the mechanical stoker can be turned off, switching to manual mode will save extra steam energy used to run the locomotive itself, therefore making the engine consume less coal or generate more power. I'm sure it deserves having a seat among most powerful non-American steam locomotives. And although desgined as a feright locomotive, with only 1.5m wheel diameter, Qianjin has a maximum speed of 85km/h, capable to be put in passenger service. And it was widely used in passenger service until 1990s. I guess it should be one the best cost efficient locomotive types. And I heard that Qianjin is the most fuel efficient one among mass-produced locomotives. There was a plan to further improve its power and efficiency, by introducing the same technology used on South Africa 25NC. And there was actually one engine (QJ-8001) made in this way. But such modification would hurt the cost efficiency, with limited improvements in the already good enough combustion efficiency and power output, and will not improve the tractive effort which is already near the physical ceiling of friction force brought by weight. And it's already 1987, only one years till the last of this type rolling down the assembly line in China, making way for the time of diesels and electrics, so the plan is shelved forever. There were 4714 Qianjin locomotives manufactured from 1956 to 1988 in total, including early prototypes and altered types and exportations.

@henrywang3977

Жыл бұрын

@HistoryintheDark So as there are other suggestions in the comment area on which else can be on the list... Do you like another video to include 5 more non-American steam engines?

New video gets uploaded *glances at clock* 12:10 at night Me: yeah i got time

10:51 "Most powerful locomotives to operate on Australian railways." NSWGR 57 class 4-8-2: You do know we're stronger than the 60 class Garratts? We produce 65,000lbf or 289.1kN which we used to great effect, leading to crews calling us "Lazy Lizzies" as we made heavy workings seem effortless.

The NSWGR AD-60 ended up being in service until the early 1970s due to their relatively simple maintenance procedures and reliability which is rather impressive, 6029 is A rather common sight on museum events, she is operational and runs regularly. They are also the most powerful steam locomotive in the southern hemisphere, 7th most powerful in the world.

The 9F is better looking than anything that makes the list. Well, I at least think so. 😊❤😊

@Alexander-km8es

4 ай бұрын

Nah I beg to differ heavy Harry has better smoke deflectors and is more intimidating in power over all

Interesting to see the AA20 here. Somewhat obscure yet having her own spotlight.

@Alexander-km8es

4 ай бұрын

If AA20 had taller driving wheels like the union pacific 9000 class it would have less tracktive effort

I dunno how relevant it is to any video but I just learned about the P&R 1187. A 0-4-0 camel back.

Can u make a vid of the longest steam engines

Doing the rough calculation for the Belgian Quad, I get a high end estimate of 96,935 lb of tractive effort. But that's using the rough estimate formula for starting tractive effort, assuming that she has 8 cylinders that all see boiler pressure, no compounding. If she was a compound, then her tractive effort would be lower, due to the reduced steam pressure.

It still surprises me that the AA20 was not converted into a stationary steam boiler for heating train cars and buildings in Moscow.

nice to see garrets come up again

Since Canada Isn't part of the USA I'll add my nomination here. The Canadian Pacific K1a 4-8-4 Northerns 3100 & 3101 built by CPR's Angus shops in 1928. By all accounts they were well designed locomotives and their performance was great the only downside they had was their large weight restricting their route availability. The tractive effort on these two engines was 60800 lbs, BUT they were equipped with booster trucks that gave an additional 12000 lbs of force for a total of 72800 lbs. I think they would have fit in nicely but that's just my opinion. On a side note both engines made it into preservation.

@markbarrile2930

Жыл бұрын

Agree, Canada is in 'Nth America' which makes them American but definitely not part of the USA, although most "USA'ns" do not seem to think of anyone being American unless they are from the USA.

Fortunately we have a fully functioning Beyer Garrett in NSW 6029. And they were used extensively until the 1970s. And they are said to be the most powerful locomotive in the Southern Hemisphere.

In germany, the number on a locomotive is read as if it's two most of the time (does that make any sense?) so say "010" is zero ten, "2322" is twenty-three twenty-two, "7235" is seventy-two thirty-five, et cetera

@henrywhite2984

Жыл бұрын

If they are playing nice, they will say "seven two (pause) three five". If they are joking at the expense of a foreigner, it will be "two-and-seventy five-and-thirty".

The reason why Belgium locos were powerful because it all not runs by coal but waffles

I love the steam locomotives

Great video, however there is another Australian loco that drops into this top 5 and might mean the poor old German giant drops off. The NSWGR D57 class. These 228 ton 3 cylinder 4.8.2 locomotives are rated as having a tractive effort of between 56000 and 62000 lbs (apparently some had 200 psi boilers and some had 220 psi boilers but I can't find that confirmed anywhere). There is 1 remaining in static preservation. However like Heavy Harry H220, it's axle load would very much limit any operational use so a return to service is very unlikely.

@InevitableMe

11 ай бұрын

That's at Valley Heights Rail Museum, isn't it?

how about a 5 most powerful uk steam locos next

The waffles have risen. All hail Belgium.

The China Railways QJ class should be on here too

As already mentioned, the LNER U1 should have been on the list; en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_U1

Great as allways but...some inexact.: the number 5 most tractive effort giant outside the USA was not german, whas spanish. The 2-10-2 Santa Fe built in Barcelona by La Maquinista Terrestre y Marítima (1941) had 55000lbs tractive effort. The whole serie had 22 locomotives. One of this (the Renfe's 151f-3101) is preserved in the Museu del Ferrocarril in Vilanova i la Geltrú (Catalonia, Spain)

It's funny how a Traxx or a Taurus how cazy strong for their 4 axial. I know they are these recent two decades electrik locomotives, but still they basically the uper limit without giving much more axial load.

What if you rate the top 5 steam locomotives (any country) by power-to-weight ratio?

@marmion150

11 ай бұрын

If you did that, I think the winner would be the SNCF Chapelon 4-8-0s ,39.1hp per ton of engine weight.

a part of me wants a compilation of every time Darkness says "big chungus"

As for the why of that Belgian Big Chungus: Things like that happen when you enjoy their amazing beer too much...

What about then Bulgarian 2-12-4? Wiki says that their tractive effort was around 85.000 lbf

And oh yeah my boi the Franco-Crosti quadruplex

Where tf is the LNER U1

As a Belgian i don't usually say this but, i'm proud to be Belgian

@schorpioen007

7 ай бұрын

me too

@schorpioen007

7 ай бұрын

Me too

The NSWGR AD60 Garrett at 7:47 . Some film of a double headed pair as late as 1968 hauling heavy bogie hopper coal trains up steep grades : kzread.info/dash/bejne/l4SkqZathqu5fbQ.html Also the preserved 6029 in a parallel running train "race" a few years ago where you can get a good feel how complicated and well preserved it is : kzread.info/dash/bejne/loVrxNxrnt3gpKg.html Searching for 6029 will show lots more recent running of this locomotive.

drink 5 belgian trappist triple ales, and you'll understand ;) we're out there, and we love it LOL

Top 5 most powerful non standard gauge steam locomotives please.

@johnd8892

Жыл бұрын

Two from this list would make the non standard gauge list. Heavy Harry H 220 at 5:25 being to the Victorian Railways standard gauge of 1600 mm broad gauge. The Soviet dud loco AA also to the Russian broad gauge of 1520 mm or so. More broad gauge track in the world than narrow gauge.

@wezza60

11 ай бұрын

Heavy Harry ran on 5'3" gauge, and was constructed to be converted to Standard Gauge if required.

@johnd8892

11 ай бұрын

@@wezza60 as i said 1600 mm gauge. You do know that is the metric conversion of those archaic units I hope. The 1435 mm gauge is irrelevant since it was never converted. The saga of converting an R class to 1435 mm over many years of costs and problems likely to prevent any more conversions of the gauge convertible ( in theory ) VR locomotives out of the question as would the magnitude of getting H 220 running again

Can you talk about the DSB Litra E.

Hello History In The Dark, here’s a suggestion for a new video idea. A full in-depth video of the London Brighton and South Coast Railway E2 tank engines because there’s more about their history, their “flaws” (not just the small coal bunkers or heavy going on water), attempted improvements, and their longevity of their service until their retirement in 1961 and 1963. Fun fact: The LB&SCR E2 we’re supposed to replace the E1.

You completely missed the Canadian Pacific Selkirk locomotives, which had 78,000 lbf (350 kN) traction. Should be #2 on your list……

That Belgian Quadruplex could have been the absolute Banker for any long train that needed go uphill.

HEAVY HARRYYYY

Australia, hold my beer!

I wonder if the AA20 would work with today's technology?

ah there is my baby, AA20 so big and so useless but i love it nontheless

Concerning the USSR AA20, if anything the boiler was UNDERPOWERED

@BarometricQuad

Жыл бұрын

At 85% Cutoff . AA20 could produce atleast 88355 lbs of tractive effort (at full power)

@BarometricQuad

Жыл бұрын

yeah. AA20 was pretty much underpowered

@sangheiliwarrior86

Жыл бұрын

@@BarometricQuad I guess the best comparison is the UP 9000 class, which had around 96,000lbs of tractive effort.

Well, we were one of the leading countries in developing railroads during the age of steam (our railroads were already in decline as Diesel's came out) and we have some of the longest routes and largest hills in the world, so it makes sense most of the big ones would be ours.

O i don't know About that big chungus is um his bizzy in b.f.n.a an i don't thank they could handle tha big chungus putting a bunch of f.u.b.a.r down on there rails 😆😆 Great video 👍👍👍

there was also the 242 A1 at 265kn

@chefchaudard3580

Жыл бұрын

3680kW @80kph!👍

@chefchaudard3580

Жыл бұрын

And the 240P, improved by André Chapelon : 269kN

Where the USSR P28 Yellowstone? They can easily be on here.

someone tell me what this list would be like if usefulness was accounted for

1:51 both engines BR 9F and Australia garrat 10:24 are more strong from Union pacific 2-8-0

I honestly don't know if the Soviet P38 Yellowstones are more powerful then the AA20?

@austinschmuck7814

Ай бұрын

I was looking for someone else to comment this, if he ever does a second one, hopefully she will be on it. The p38 had 99,018 lbs of tractive effort. (44913.86 kg) Making her quite the stronk girl.

When 5 came up, I was thinking I wonder how much our Harry has, and Harry was next 😅

I think 45 010 shloud be restored to operating condition. What do ya'l think?

BIG CHUNGUS !!!!

i would like say that YES 4 AD60 class locomotives exist. but only 3 are under proper preservation as 6042 is sitting in a field rotting away and the museum that owns it is on the other side of the state. google it im not joking

I already knew number one would bring an absolute unit back to the spotlight. I may be American but uh POWWWAAAAAAAAA

you forgot Alsace Lorrain G16 and SNCF 160A six cylinder compound

Not being mean but there no gerrits here because most of us can see a flop when we see one ...but we've made a lot of own flops so not pointing fingers just saying,....an 4,14,4 um jenny crank thats all i can say😶 great video 👍👍👍

The AA20 is basically the same tractive effort as the S-2.

Garratt my beloved ❤

Technically the Garratts are UK engines - Beyer Peacock's works was in Openshaw, Manchester, UK.

Hey now are you considering the selkirks cp rail as american?

No British engines on the list? Remind me again where Beyer Peacock had their Factory building Garatts for export to Australia.

@MrStantheman103

Жыл бұрын

Manchester rings a bell. And not Manchester in the USA. 😂

None of the loco's done by Andre Chapelon?

I hate to break it to you, but in my research the big Belgian put out about 94,000 pounds TE, based on German Wikipedia and a few French sources from the time, though it should be stated that the reason it’s that low is because she maxed out the dynamometer car. So who knows how powerful she actually was. But my money is on the confirmed sources from the time, even if they’re false, better safe than sorry.

DRG Class 45 had a tractive effort of over 300+ kN, not sure where you got 245 kN from. The more numerous Class 44, of which some still run, boasts 291 kN. Heck the std. WW2 Class 52 Kriegslokomotiv had a tractive effort of 230 kN.

@SiqueScarface

9 ай бұрын

Wikipedia lists 420 kN for the Class 45.

Where are the BIG Garratts? Built for South Africa and the British LNER U1?

Do the most powerful British steam engines

wtf where is bdz class 46 with its 381kN?

Belgium for the win! although I do not know why my country would need such a ridiculously powerful locomotive? It seems a bit excessive to me.