You mix arguments about immigration, illegal immigration, and mass immigration of refugees/asylum seekers/welfare seekers. These are different sorts of immigration, and so are the arguments for and against them.

@asafartsi7028

6 жыл бұрын

Yetanotherytuser I think white genocide is preaching or influencing white people not to have children, or at least - not white children. Not necessarily linked to mass immigration. But anything can look like white genocide or white supremacy, with just a sprinkling of paranoia

@asafartsi7028

6 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ this study: hbr.org/2016/10/immigrants-play-a-disproportionate-role-in-american-entrepreneurship Counts documented employers, workers, and company foundres. Which is why I assume - documented immigrants. (a bit difficult to start a company with no legal status)

@asafartsi7028

6 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ maybe. But you said there IS no difference in the statistics. Do you know of a research that shows the financial benefit of illegal immigration? Or of mass immigration?

@friday13thfan97

6 жыл бұрын

He heavily mixed these arguments. These are criminals not productive citizens. But his main argument outs lusty them stay and bring more.

@killercaos123

6 жыл бұрын

Asaf Artsi So what ur saying is "the argument isn't black and white, there are very large nuances to the debate"?

Very Misleading Legal immigration is very different from *illegal* immigration.

@SilverMenace100

3 жыл бұрын

Then facilitate the legal process and help families come here legally. Problem solved.

@SilverMenace100

3 жыл бұрын

@@alekstanton4715 I was pointing out that most undocumented immigrants don't have the means to come here legally and are desperately fleeing from horrible conditions.

@MIZZKIE

Жыл бұрын

@@SilverMenace100 Yeah, and also lets put every single criminal in jail. Problem solved. World peace achieved. Hurray! (facepalm) Illegal immigrants don't give a crap about legal processing. Moreover, legal processing doesn't mean every single person who applies gets accepted. If you're a criminal, gtfo. If you don't want to contribute to the US, gtfo. If you want to leech off of the US system, gtfo. etc etc etc

@sarahshaw7315

3 ай бұрын

@@SilverMenace100no. 1.2 million immigrants came to the UK last year with a million the last. My ass we need more, the country is FUCKED.

@angkhoa1216

Ай бұрын

⁠@@SilverMenace100Even if legal process is possible, it would still take 18 years for one to get their visa.

If you want fill these low skill jobs with the dropouts then stop all and I do mean all entitlement program.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

illegals and legal migrants use those programs FAR less than citizens

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Mister Mood citation needed. I work for a government agency that deals with welfare data. A lot are illegal. Before that, I worked in pharmacy. A lot of illegals there getting free medication. So stop your bullshit lies.

@jackmeoff8953

6 жыл бұрын

Tell me Mister Mood can you read? If it is yes than what did I say?

@jackmeoff8953

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you DarkSide Blues

@bradpayn8058

6 жыл бұрын

We have millions of Americans already getting paid by welfare to lay on the couch, eat food stamp bon bons, watch The View, and produce babies of all different shades and last names -- it's way past time that they learned how to mow lawns, pick fruit, clean up construction sites, or work at day cares for each other. I say we find everybody American a job, even if it's generating electricity on a stationary bike, before we let one more person immigrate. Things that the liberal voting base fear the most are things like shovels and brooms, and as long as you let them they'll stay on that couch and encourage a never ending flow of Mexicans to do the dirty work. Then as the illegals become legal, many of them will figure out the "liberal baby factory" way of life too. We've been trying this for years, it does not work. While it is true that this country is a nation of immigrants, most of them came legally, and not only was there not entitlement programs for them, but there were no entitlement programs where the people who were already working here could go home and lay on the couch for a living.

My sister had her Social Security number stolen by an illegal immigrant. It was a nightmare for her trying to get that mess straightened out.

@GANTZ100pts

4 жыл бұрын

A friend of mine a few years back apparently had his stolen too. He didn't know it was stolen until the person that stole it apparently died. And as a result he had to go through a huge mess of paperwork to prove that he wasn't dead. Good news is he didn't get burdened with any of the debt that his identity thief amassed. But was still a pain in the ass for him to go through because according to the records he was technically "dead" and couldn't get a job.

@mattw8937

3 жыл бұрын

@@GANTZ100pts It sounds like illegal immigrants don't care about how their actions negatively effect anyone else.

@redstarbelgradefanstv

7 ай бұрын

yes man because one means all doesn't it? @@mattw8937

@thesuperdragonrelic9739

6 ай бұрын

Cool no one cares

@angkhoa1216

Ай бұрын

@@thesuperdragonrelic9739I care.

ive worked and lived with them in california. i had to move out of state because they do drive wage down, take jobs, dont speak english, take advantage of welfare by the women saying the father is unknown or out of country when in fact he lives in the house and works under the table. theyre very racist to whites and blacks. and while on welfare they produce a lot of children which is paid for by the tax payer. then the children go to school which the tax payer also pays and it takes time away from the native born children. its a big problem. maybe one would have to live among them to see how bad it really is. even the jobs they dont take are requiring the employees to speak Spanish because there are so many of non english speaking immigrants.

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

And somehow California creates the largest state economy, bigger than most countries.

@stretchyjim1

6 жыл бұрын

not for long. ive seen it getting shittier and shittier every year. where are you from? are you an immigrant from mexico or central america? i have Hispanic blood and my mexican relatives agree. well most of them. your emotions are getting the better of your logic. knowledge is power, emotions unchecked is a weakness.

@moved2bitchute779

4 жыл бұрын

Well said.

@alexgichmartinez4477

8 күн бұрын

@@stretchyjim1he said facts, you are the one being racist about mexicans

@stretchyjim1

8 күн бұрын

@@alexgichmartinez4477 6 years later and im still right. Even more so. I just visited cali 4 months ago to see some family and its disgusting what its turned into. I told my family to leave now while they can. California is lost. Abandon ship.

Love that like/dislike ratio. Fans of Reason are independent thinkers.

@ASleepyMoose

6 жыл бұрын

Leiter I don’t want a borderless world regardless of race. Keep the germans, Swedes, and Czechs out too.

@Happymars24

6 жыл бұрын

Get rid of the state, then you can have open borders.

@darthutah6649

4 жыл бұрын

or maybe trigger conservatives

@Monaleenian

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Happymars24 "Get rid of the state, then you can have open borders." You mean get rid of every state on Earth, at exactly the same time, I assume. Because if you just get rid of the US state, another state would use its military to assert control over America. I don't think that a sychronized dismantling of every national and local state on the planet is all that realistic though...

@apersononlineyes6554

2 жыл бұрын

It just goes to show you how much of the people who watch this are just conservatives masquerading as libertarians

Jesus, did Nick just say we need cheap labor to use them? That's fucked up.

@FrankMendez1969

6 жыл бұрын

glanemann that's exactly what I understood, too.

@deriznohappehquite

6 жыл бұрын

The argument is basically that we can use them to undercut people's salaries.

@rodziegman

6 жыл бұрын

Yup, last I checked, it's slavery. I don't wanna clean up, make the Mexican do it! Kids need jobs too, it should not be a stigma for kids to do some of the work like this after school.

@qb4428

6 жыл бұрын

It's better than what they could find in their home countries. Otherwise they wouldn't come here at all, dumbass.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

it better than what thier country offers them so yea..

I am an immigrant and I know enough immigrants to say that most people crossing the Mexican border into US don't want to immigrate they want jobs and stable income. They want to send money home and go home eventually because they are deeply attached to their families. They need to be able to work legally, come and go when they need to, like they used to under Bracero Program. When I stood in a crowd of several thousand immigrants during our citizenship ceremony a lot of people around me didn't seem to care to recite The Pledge of Allegiance and some didn't even put their hands over their hearts. It was very obvious that citizenship was forced onto them because there's no other way to bring their family members in, so they too would get work. Let them work legally and see how many still want to immigrate. You will be surprised.

@mortenx9781

Жыл бұрын

they also immigrate for safety the cartel is ruthless in mexico

@phd_phd

3 ай бұрын

⁠@@mortenx9781 but cartel isnt as ruthless as leftists with propaganda crap like this. I myself a us citizen not by birth but i acquired a passport gor what? To hopefully renounce it a decade later? And to swear off american citizenship till it becomes liveable. Im for worthy immigration. Ive always been an immigrant. Ik manh people renouncing their passports not in favor of Saudi Arabia and Spain like me but Mexico… gruesome for america and marxxists

@lucycolon1861

22 күн бұрын

Then create those opportunities in Mexico. America didn’t just magically become resourceful. The true Americans fought for it

@alexgichmartinez4477

8 күн бұрын

@@lucycolon1861there are not true of false americans

Also I wonder what would happen if a citizen worked under someone else’s social security card? Oh wait, they go to jail, right? Not deported and then re-enter 10 times.

@GinEric84

6 жыл бұрын

codebebop apparently identity theft isn't a No-No if you're an illegal

@richdobbs6595

6 жыл бұрын

Actually, probably nothing because working under somebody else's card means that benefits accrue to some else. A citizen gains nothing by doing so. But if an illegal uses a phony SSN those benefits just disappear. I think that government created ITIN to assist folks to pay taxes with no associated social security benefit accruing.

@akbarshoed

6 жыл бұрын

codebebop exactly

@chrishenk4064

6 жыл бұрын

I personally have no interest in paying to house them, clothe them, feed them, and entertain them. Deportation seems easier no? If it's a nonviolent crime I don't think that's worth your money.

@autismintensifies8793

6 жыл бұрын

And applying for credit with said SSN doesn't have any negative consequences?

So if the citizens of one country work (and die) for centuries to make it financially successful, as well as the safest, freest, and best country for themselves and their children....everyone else has the right to abandon the countries they did NOTHING to improve, and immediately take advantage of the benefits created by someone else? If someone works 80 hours a week for their entire life and buys a nice house, should people from the town over who just don't feel like working be allowed to bring their friends and family to eat their food and use the pool whenever the fuck they feel like it too?

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

Please read your USA history and our "involvement" to protect our "national interests" in foreign countries from founding to this day.

@EvidenceBasedMedsin

4 ай бұрын

@@homewall744The USA doesn’t owe the people of those countries nothing! Yes, our Constitutional Republic is veiled by usurpers pushing Democracy, but people here, from the soil of this country pre-Colonialism who fought for this nation, don’t want them here leaching, volunteering themselves for pennies, nor bringing their criminal element. We’ve dealt with at before.

@alexgichmartinez4477

8 күн бұрын

Then go away from USA and give it back to the natives

Love to see them pissing off there alt right fan base they built

@johnvuillemot4805

3 жыл бұрын

Alot of closeted conservatives think they are libertarian, and reason isn't scared of them

I’m from New Zealand and normally the centre ground of our politics is well to the left of US politics. But not on this issue, we have strict immigration rules and only let in people who are useful to our economy and a few refugees. I’m surprised how liberal the US is with immigration, considering how conservative it is with most other political points.

@user-or6yn8pm3c

2 жыл бұрын

US is the reverse. We are more conservative on local matters but more liberal on immigration.

@wow9279

Жыл бұрын

Open imigration has been a pretty big reaseon for americas success that's a probable reaseon.

These are 5 strawman arguments for immigration, and a casual dismissal of them.

@qb4428

6 жыл бұрын

He showed people genuinely making these arguments. How is it a straw man?

@Aeonicentity

6 жыл бұрын

no, he showed highlights of clips from people who have very complex and cogient arguments, but the highlights weren't even their full arguments, or their best ones. The only one here that was close to a good argument was Lauren Southern, and instead of addressing the arguments on its merits, he just hand waves that away by harkening back to 100 years ago, and saying "some of them learn english!" Particularly the one regarding taxes: We don't know how much tax is paid by illegals, because the IRS refuses to actually figure out the stats, everything is conjecture, and no one actually knows an answer to this because we lack even the most basic of migration and naturalization stats BECAUSE OF HOW MANY ILLEGALS WE HAVE LIVING HERE. We don't even really know HOW many illegals we have living here. Go ahead, cite me the number, and prove it. Tell me the method by which you draw that conclusion.

@alexgichmartinez4477

8 күн бұрын

@@Aeonicentitylol no, they are racist fearmongers exposed as such

Go to any border state and tell me they're not receiving benefits.

@HomelessOnline

6 жыл бұрын

Every Californian knows they're receiving plenty more than education and emergency room benefits, but even assuming that's the case, how much in dollars does it sum up to? "Only education" and "only emergency room visits" is like "only a billion dollars per year." (I'm exaggerating to make a point, the point being you can't mention only the services without including the costs of those services. Those costs are paid by me and others like me!)

@HomelessOnline

6 жыл бұрын

And BTW, "education" also includes free college! I pay for it, and I don't even have a college education!

Could you guys start posting sources?

@karendelgado4910

3 жыл бұрын

They can’t because they don’t have any

We don't need to remove or reduce immigration, we need to regulate it from countries we know won't actually cause issues.

I usually love this station. But they did the typical left wing bait and switch argument here. The say “illegal” immigration is good so here are 5 reasons why “legal” immigration is awesomeballs with a nice finish of “you’re racist” if you disagree.

If immigration is good, then folks ought to be willing to pay for it. My suggestion to start up the market place is unlimited immigrants at a cost of 6 * per capita national debt, and 1 million slots to be auctioned to the highest bidders.

@richdobbs6595

6 жыл бұрын

BTW, one nice thing about the million slots is nativists or environmentalists could put their money behind their ideas and bid on the slots to leave them unused. Or high tech CEOs could bid on them for those valuable overseas workers that bring so much benefit to the American economy.

@EvidenceBasedMedsin

4 ай бұрын

I agree

It's not the same to bring an irish, german, or a spanish person and someone from the middle east or africa, the reason why it has succeded in the past is the base culture which was the same (christinaty). So the argument that there is no cultural problem is not a good kind of argument.

@TheFreekg

6 жыл бұрын

Marko Meštrović African migrants in the US actually have some of the highest average incomes, well above native citizens.

@Yetanotherytuser

6 жыл бұрын

Culture and Religion are 2 separate concepts. And actually, most african countries are very christian, so there you go.

@UnchainedEruption

6 жыл бұрын

It’s about culture, religion and race have nothing to do with culture.

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Yetanotherytuser culture and religion go hand in hand. What the fuck is wrong with you? You like spouting shit.

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

SDC Smedly you mean Asians. Not Africans.

My sons lost their jobs as skilled block masons to illegals. Those illegals were paid less and were paid OFF THE BOOKS!!!! Therefore, they paid NO INCOME OR SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES!!!! THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS NEED TO BE ENFORCED.

Something lolbertarians often forget is, mass immigration was largely responsibile for fdr and the new deal being so popular. Shocker, having a massive amount of poor people who have little chance to compete will cause them to vote for free stuff.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

illegal cant vote.

@antman1672

6 жыл бұрын

Mister Mood I didn't say they could. I'm not a leftist, when I say immigrants I mean legal immigrants. Illegal immigrant's children, and other family members who are legal.

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Mister Mood yes they can. Showing ID is not considered compulsory in elections. Project veritas has shown how illegals vote several times. Man, you are getting your ass kicked on this video.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

voter fraud is practically non-existent www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Mister Mood right. That’s a shit source.

Our experience in the UK is that when there were relatively few e.g. Pakistani immigrants then English was widely learnt. Now that some places like central Bradford are majority Pakisani then parts of that community (mainly such as their womenfolk) don't have to learn English at all. I know of cases where hospitalised women who have lived in the UK for 20 years need interpreters (usually male family members) to communicate with nursing staff. It depends if you're seeing their integration into the host culture, or their replacement of it...

Of course, while politicians and corporations love it, "legal" immigration levels have been out of control in the US for the last three decades. Almost more than anything else, overimmigration has destroyed us living standards-driving up the cost and down the quality and quantity of every basic human necessity.

I thought reason was fair and unbiased. This feels like propaganda

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Anthony Dimartino it’s not feel, it is propaganda.

@frankiel3767

4 жыл бұрын

Reason is openly libertarian, and this is a libertarian position. I don’t know what you expect. It’s like going to Fox News and being shocked that they don’t support universal health care, or going to MSNBC and being shocked they support gun control

Everyone's getting pissed off and downvoting a libertarian video for making libertarian arguments...

@Midironica

4 жыл бұрын

Because they're dumb libertarian arguments

I love Reason, but I also believe in the rule of law. I don't blame people for wanting to come to the US, but they should do so LEGALLY. If our immigration policy is screwed up (which is probably is), then we should lobby to change it so it's easier for honest hardworking people to come here without having to sneak across the border to find work with a fake SSN.

@holycrapchris

6 жыл бұрын

Rule of law is fine, except when the law is stupid. "Bad laws make socially-advantageous acts illegal." Cue Milton Friedman: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dWlmts6Jc7mqmdI.html

@carson2725

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly right, Joe Yang. I was sad that ReasonTV would paint the picture to make it seem as if we conservatives are against IMMIGRATION IN GENERAL. My grandparents immigrated here from Mexico LEGALLY and are now citizens (Republicans, interestingly enough). I am not against immigration, but ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. That is what we, Trump, Fox News, etc. are against. I was recently shocked and saddened by a Reason article published that criticizes Trumps "harsh" immigration policy. They criticized the fact that the US is prosecuting people coming across the border illegally. My response to them is that it is...ILLEGAL! Those people are cheating those like my grandparents that come legally! If there is no penalty besides maybe deportation (which they ignore and come back over), then the law against illegal immigration is meaningless. I have witnessed ReasonTV go from calling out corruption and overspending to being an anti-Trump megaphone.

@username5502

Жыл бұрын

@@carson2725, laws against immigrations ARE meaningless. It is a bureaucratic nightmare to enter the country legally. Conservatives often say that they are for individual liberty and limited government yet worship immigration control and other big government things.

Argument 3: Misleading statistics. Yes, illegal immigrants pay taxes, that is true. However, what is important to consider is *how much* they actually contribute in taxes. Notice you left that part out. There’s a reason they’re emigrating to the U.S. illegally, and I’m going to bet it’s not because they’re super-rich. If they’re already working menial jobs at prices lower than what Americans here expect, their contributions to taxes would be absolutely miniscule. The point isn’t that they don’t contribute at all, but that in the grand scheme of things the tax revenue gained from them will be next to nothing while the costs of medical bills, litigation for criminal activity, welfare, etc. far exceed the amount gained from taxation.

Three best actions to help immigration issue: 1. Decriminalize drugs. 2. Enact the Fair Tax plan. 3. Reduce the red tape in the legal immigration process.

@gaztons1115

6 жыл бұрын

The U.S should also stop providing foreign aid as it prolongs and exacerbates the issues at hand, there is a reason as to why foreign aid always flows from a democracy to a dictatorship. In essence the U.S should focus on preventing illegal immigration and not simply deterring it.

@libertylarry3224

6 жыл бұрын

put simply eliminate the state

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Gaztons - I agree. There are many reasons to end foreign aid.

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Liberty Larry - Or that.

@VinnieVolts

6 жыл бұрын

Liberty Larry and the immigrants you want in this country will never vote, petition, or voluntarily choose that. So your plan to end the state by importing people who demand big government is.. well. Good luck?

How funny the example for illegal immigrants not waiting in line in Mexico is that the line has over 1 million applicants in it. So if things take to long its ok to break the law. The logic here is mind numbing. It's amazing to me that people think this way and are willing to promote this mind set. Laws keep order and keep us safe you cannot be for breaking some laws and then rally against people who break other laws.

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

But you can ship your products and factories across borders manana...because they are more important than humans.

Where is your evidence these folks are assimilating and adopting our values?

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Ethan Noble no he didn’t. Mexicans teaching English is not adapting values.

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

What are "our values"? I disagree with most Americans as I believe in the power of liberty and equality under the law, even if it means not growing as fast or killing as many foreigners or deporting "illegals" or whatnot. I believe in a flat rate tax on all non-gift financial transactions.

@cubbymahn1979

6 жыл бұрын

Home Wall liberty, small “r” republicanism and the rule of law. If the first thing you do is ignore our sovereignty by violating our border you don’t share our values.

@Jimraynor45

6 жыл бұрын

The only values they need to have is to repesct the rights of others.

Uncontrolled immigration of unskilled workers and women and children will always create public pressure for expanding the welfare state and more government intervention "to help the poor".

@libertylarry3224

6 жыл бұрын

So it's a matter of educating the public about the ineffectiveness of the welfare state rather than restricting immigration.

@Longanlon

6 жыл бұрын

yeah, bet on an "educated public", that's always a safe bet...

@libertylarry3224

6 жыл бұрын

If the public can not be educated how do you hope to implement restrictions on immigration, which in your opinion are the educated thing to do?

@Yetanotherytuser

6 жыл бұрын

So will poor people in you own country that have a lot of children, and they are propotionally more than new immigrants. Are you for not letting those people breed?

@libertylarry3224

6 жыл бұрын

@Escorpion Venenoso 1. The more people on welfare the less sustainable the welfare state becomes. 2. You are making the same assumptions that left-wingers make that people can not escape the "class" in which they where born and this is simply not the case.

1:47 "they are not paying taxes" so they avoided getting robbed

1. They're taking low wage jobs that often require them to rely on government assistance to get by while simultaneously paying very little into the system. I'm too of this, most people admit that they're jobs will be replaced by robots in the near future, meaning that they will soon be unemployed without marketable skills. 2. What Reason said about welfare was selectively chosen to appear as though they don't use it often. They do, and I encourage you to research this topic yourself. Not only are most immigrants as a whole on some kind of welfare program, but Hispanic immigrants specifically use it more than any other group and are diluted in the statistics by Asian, African, and European immigrants who actually succeed here. At the end of the day, immigrants take more out than they put in, therefore they are a drain of the system by definition. 3.They aren't paying ENOUGH taxes. And did they just try to justify illegals using fake social security cards?😂 4. "There is no line". Come on, Reason, are we supposed to pretend that a million immigrants don't cone here every year? Just because the line is long doesn't mean you skip it, and anyone who does should immediately by denied citizenship permanently. 5. If you import massive amounts of people from another culture, things will become more like that culture. This is common sense. Mexico isn't a shithole for some magical reason, it's a shithole because Mexican culture has turned it into a shithole. Mexicans don't come here because they love America, they come here because they love our money. They will gladly take our money and keep their culture.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

in the video he stated when there aren't anymore jobs migrants tend to go back to their country.

@mistermood4164

6 жыл бұрын

they didn't, more Mexicans were leaving than coming in during 08-14.

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

Mister Mood it was the welfare denials that sent them packing. Not lack of jobs. Please.

@dannyboy765ify

4 жыл бұрын

Also, alot of the money earned by illegal immigrants isnt paid back into the system through US investment or through US business purchases, but is sent back to family in their country of origin

I don't care how long the line is, there are long lines at Disney World and if I think the rules don't apply to me and I cut them, they kick my ass out

Not saying what they are saying isn't valid but where is the sources for all this information. Also they say illegal immigrants don't use as much welfare but we all know that is disingenuous. The best way to measure welfare usage is by immigrant run house because they have kids that are American citizens so their kids are counted to the citizen total usage of welfare. If you do it by immigrant household then you find that 51 percent of immigrant families use welfare while 31 percent of citizen households use welfare. This data is from the Center of Immigration research so at lease I have a source. They don't.

Maybe wages are rising *because* immigrants are returning home. But the biggest problem is voting. They overwhelmingly vote for larger government. Earlier waves didn't.

With such an extensive wellfare state, its dishonest to say the immigrants who come in are the same as a lichtenstein cardiovascular surgeon who arrived in 1970.

See Dr Jordan Peterson’s video on borders and The Rageaholic’s video on Why We Need The Wall!!!! And a nation without borders isn’t a nation!

All of this ignores the fact that immigrants tend to not have Libertarian oriented ideals or political beleifs. Thus destroying any chance for smaller Government in America. Freedom yes, but freedom in a closed system that only allows those that beleive in it to stay.

To begin with the biggest big picture: It is a myth that American agriculture is dominated by illegal-immigrant labor, and that enforcing U.S. labor laws would either shut down farms around the country, as the most hysterical critics claim, or result in wildly higher food prices. The evidence does not support this position or anything close to that position. Most illegals do not work in agriculture - only about 4 percent of the illegal-immigrant population is employed in farming. In no state is farming the predominant occupation of illegal immigrants; even in places such as California, where labor-intensive fruit-and-vegetable farming attracts a relatively large illegal workforce, the main occupations of illegals are in hospitality (restaurants and hotels), services, and transportation. Likewise, most of the people working in agriculture are not illegals: The great majority of the farming workforce is composed of legal workers, with illegals constituting about one-fourth of the total. Illegals make up a larger share of the farm workforce than they do any other labor pool, but they remain a small though not inconsequential minority of workers. Here is the data: www.pewhispanic.org/2015/03/26/share-of-unauthorized-immigrant-workers-in-production-construction-jobs-falls-since-2007/

1. End all entitlements. 2. Open borders. I'm happy.

@Monaleenian

3 жыл бұрын

And when the new arrivals outnumber the natives and vote to re-establish all entitlement programs?

Hey Reason, they are not going to vote libertarian, you want to import people with anti-libertarian ideology to vote for more socialism.

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

Because you know the political proclivities of all immigrants? Everyone in the USA comes from immigration, even the native americans.

@killercaos123

6 жыл бұрын

So not true. Most Central Americans are DEEPLY Catholic. They vote culturally conservative. Ya dumbass. lol

@debunkernator

6 жыл бұрын

We are not getting the best and brightest. You can keep your delusions i will stick with the reality. If their countries were libertarian, they would not be moving here for benefits and jobs. Their countries are what they are because of their culture.

@bustaballs

6 жыл бұрын

You're literally advocating for socialism by wanting a collectivist decision on what your neighbors are allowed to do on their own private property, which means private property doesn't really exist but rather is owned by the state. Being anti-private property is as anti-libertarian as it gets. If I want my buddies from Mexico and Iran to come work for me at my business or live in a house I own, that has nothing to do with you and you get zero say in the matter.

@debunkernator

6 жыл бұрын

No I am not. You are advocating for anarchism. If you want to have them on your property, you have to guarantee they wont go on my property. Can you do that? No? Do I get to them attack your property because you cannot contain them? We can play silly thought games all day but then there is this thing called "reality".

Why should we participate in our own demise? We are vested in our country with blood sweat and tears. The investments we have made in roads, hospitals, airports, schools, and other infrastructure is quickly overwhelmed by mass illegal immigration. There are quotas for a REASON REASON. That is so infrastructure is not overwhelmed. Illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers trillions-money that should be reserved for the to benefit those who have built this country and their children and grandchildren.

Remember when both republicans and democrats were against illegal immigration... Ah the good ol' days of 2013...

A brave effort to make your case. Would you be brave enough to also seek out someone who can provide well-supported counter arguments? I learned something from your points but suspect I might learn even more from an opposing perspective.

Could be me but I thought the current problem was with illegal immigration and illegal immigrants undercutting the wages of our citizens. Nobody has a problem with legal immigration. Cultural change is more of a problem in the EU with the current migrant and refugee crisis.

@martinrheaume5393

6 жыл бұрын

First of all, if nobody has a problem with illegal immigration why are they trying to decrease the numbers of legal immigration. Second of all, why should the government micromanage the flow of human beings to manipulate wages?

@richdobbs6595

6 жыл бұрын

Actually, there are a fair number of folks that feel the current H1B visa program is indentured servitude used to drive down the cost of labor for software development. A merit based system would have less negative impacts.

@akbarshoed

6 жыл бұрын

Johan van Oldenbarnevelt I know. He's really making an argument for slavery to an extent

Just a couple of questions, Nick. If immigrants only suppress wages by 5%, why are they willing to take these jobs that natives are not? Why exactly is labor force participation so low for prime age males? Why are illegal immigrants more attractive to employers than natives? Why are H1B visa holders more attractive to IT employers than natives? If immigration, both legal and illegal, were lowered, do you think that there might be less tolerance for the low labor force participation rate, generous welfare benefits including guaranteed student loans? What is the long term interaction between taking in immigrants now and future job loss from automation and artificial intelligence?

I'll be for high levels of legal immigration when the system is merit-based and I will be for open borders (but not citizenship) after welfare state is abolished and a national voter ID is instituted. Until those conditions are meat I would like to see every illegal immigrant marched trail-of-tears style over the southern border.

A rebuttal for this video in 10 seconds flat: America is an IDEA. Bringing in millions of people with conflicting IDEAS and let them influence politics will inevitably collapse the IDEAS that made the US prosperous in the 1st place.

@rightfulfuture4

3 ай бұрын

it's all intentional, that's why they want them to vote

@alexgichmartinez4477

8 күн бұрын

… us was founded by inmigrants wtf. Also it is not a monolyth, there are various ideas and interpretations of what USA is or should be. Pretending not is just trying to impose your view, wich is pretty authoritarian

>Is libertarian >Wants millions of immigrants who come in to vote for bigger government.

@Jimraynor45

6 жыл бұрын

Ant Man In a libertarian society, you *can't* vote for a bigger government. The thing your missing, is that even if you took all the immigrants away, we'd still have a big government. Immigrants are not to blame for that, the natives are.

@antman1672

6 жыл бұрын

We don't live in a libertarian society. Maybe mass immigration can work in the libertarian utopia, but we have to work with what we have now.

@Jimraynor45

6 жыл бұрын

Ant Man What we have *now* is millions of immigrants! It wasn't too long ago that the United States was closer to Libertarian ideas. After-all, we were founded on Libertarian principles. We should restrict citizens in their ability to vote, instead of trying to hope that they vote in a way we want. What do you think would be easier to do: Deport millions of immigrants or reform our voting system and get rid of welfare? If immigrants couldn't vote and couldn't receive welfare, how much of a problem do you think they'd be? Both of these tasks are quite difficult of course, but guess what, the mass migration has already happened. Instead of focusing on that, which may actually be counterproductive, the focus must remain on reforming society.

@bustaballs

6 жыл бұрын

^ votes for bigger government to build walls ^ votes for government to have a say over private property and private businesses ^ votes for big government to violate the 4th amendment to find illegals ^ votes for bigger government to engage in mass deportation, destroying the lives of millions ^ claims to be proponent of freedom and small government

@antman1672

6 жыл бұрын

@Nicholas Smith Government already does all those things and more. It also created the incentive to come over and use the other people's tax money in the form of social service goodies. Anyone with a brain, knows social programs aren't going anywhere, they are too popular, even among republicans. Despite lolbertarians crowing about them for decades, they have accomplished nothing. Now their blind adherence to principle prevents them from stopping the destruction of the free market and freedoms (such as they are) that they love so much.

Cleaning up on construction sites? Brother the business model is completely changed to subcontracting illegal immigrants

If immigrant workers are so good for the United States why are the countries they're coming from doing so poorly?

@sock7481

2 жыл бұрын

Because they don't get paid enough in their countries

@user4136_

Жыл бұрын

@@sock7481 neither do we

@sock7481

Жыл бұрын

@@user4136_ get paid way more than the immirgants. Do some research. Some live like $10 a month.

@user4136_

Жыл бұрын

@@sock7481 there has to be some order though!!! Our systems are being over run...the citizens of the United States is being put last...

Sick lack of citations bro.

Can you provide detailing sourcing for point 2 please? Last 2 CIS reports seem to detail something very different that what you're saying

To add context, Lauren Southern is describing the cultural erosion occuring in Europe by Muslim, not Mexican migration, where it is legitimately occuring.

How will you guys at Reason react when they vote Hugo Chavez, Jr President of the United States of America for life? Look at the polls on what they believe in, it's not libertarianism.

There aren't many issues libertarians disagree on, but judging by the like/dislike ratio on this video, immigration is one of them. I think the immigration issue separates the wayward-republicans from the true libertarians. "The free market can solve all our issues! ... Except immigration, we need the state to decide who to sell our land to and who we can hire."

I wonder if the presenter and most involved in this production live in areas with a high level of adepts of very different cultures like Islam, and if they have as many diverse friends.

The most important thing is that mass immigration undermines the stability and cohesion of the nation-state. There's no argument against this. Modern democratic nation-states need the cohesion provided by strong fellow feeling to function properly.

All immigration issues should be given back to the States, private citizens, and businesses. Then the Federal Government can go back to doing its job. Upholding the U.S. Constitution.

1) Yeah this has been pretty much debunked for a while, especially in some regions where immigrants are the only ones actually taking some jobs. They're more willing to work from the bottom up, or... just the bottom. Meanwhile I've seen and heard stories of regulars and student types take a common job, and then just ditch it not even after a full day. That's anecdotal of course, and I'm sure it's also just as possible somewhere out there an illegal did take a job from someone else, but as a broader concept it's not a major issue. 2) The welfare is the problem, and needs greater restrictions. Period. That's barely even an immigrant deal, we just need to talk about the welfare system. IF illegals were to be getting too invested into it, we need to ask ourselves how that's even possible and why it's allowed. 3) Nailed this perfectly with the last bit. The problem is in their status, if you're not supposed to be here, you're likely not going to be in some major part of the system where you're treated as a citizen paying taxes. Work on the legal system to get them into the legal system. 4) ...and this is the legal system. Yup, government is slow and inefficient, not too much of a big surprise. I don't know precisely what we need to do to fix this up, but we should certainly work on that. I'm all for legal immigrants, and yet I also understand a need to ensure they're safe and good contributing people. We really should push them to get legalized, but we should also make sure the system itself is working. 5) Okay so there's some merit to this one in our current day and context, because what's going on in europe is cultural destruction. However that's because of government allowed (or even paid for in other countries) mass flow of immigrants from a war torn country nothing like our own, and arriving with culture shock. Sometimes, they're bringing elements of that war in with them. This is why we need #4 to be a thing in working order, we need safe and good people. I'm also a slight bit disappointed in Reason for not covering things like how governments are going out of their way to import these people in, not immigrating them naturally. This form of cultural issues isn't even up for debate, it's actually happening and an effect you can actively see, and hear politicians, crime rates, and so on actively respond to without good results because they're just letting it happen. I'm *not* in favor of this cultural destruction argument being applied too loosely though, as it's historically and factually wrong to just assume anybody from a country that isn't like yours can't assimilate in and work hard in our society. What we need though is to make sure we've still got a system in place to make the right calls and to discern what's an ambitious guy looking to move from a bad country, versus a guy who's just being thrown out of a bad country and decided he could walk into another and bring a bit of it with him. ...and if you're worried about said immigrants pushing us into a bigger government, take a good long look into the mirror. That's going to be human nature with unchecked democracy, and why full democracy is a problem. Like with point #2-4, your problem would be with the government and the way the system is set up, not directly the immigration.

Way to go reason TV, show a Spanish Speaking video (3:33) with the word Gringo Accents on top of the White Board. Gringo being a derogatory (racist) name for White Americans. Do they have a African American Accent course with the N word at the top of the the white board?

@darksideblues135

6 жыл бұрын

sanosuke2999 I got that too. I wonder if others picked that up.

@rxa177

6 жыл бұрын

Gringo isn't derogatory

@killercaos123

6 жыл бұрын

sanosuke2999 Dude ur acting like a lil bitch. "Stick and stones make brake my bones...... But Gringo is offensive to me." lmao

@MarcusofMenace

5 жыл бұрын

@@rxa177 it wasn't originally intended to be a racial term but people have used it as an insult enough for it to be seen as offensive

Anglos hating on immigration all while being immigrants themselves. Lol

@YungPac

Жыл бұрын

Settlers and builders of a nation not destroyers

@marksanders2168

Жыл бұрын

@@YungPac anglos= immigrants "Nation building"= immigrant labor and brain drain. 🤡👍👍

1) The argument isn't about taking jobs. They argument being made here is that they make things cheaper. The problem with this argument is that it's a strawman. There are legal methods like guest worker programs that could do the same without rewarding people for breaking our laws. I would much rather have a vetted person with a work visa than an illegal alien with no background check. 2) Illegal aliens use welfare programs at lower rates than US citizens ignores the fact that they still use them. Then we get conflicting facts about how they only account for 2% yet their usage rate while lower shows them to be more than 2%. This is muddling the waters because the 2% is from SSI and federal programs rather than local programs and emergency services. It's hard to take this seriously when they show native born using Medicaid at 29% and illegals at a whopping 19%. Other studies have shown how large of a drain they are on local services and one of the big causes of hospital cost inflation in some areas. Then he brings up labor force participation. Since their jobs often pay little they fall into poverty rates which allows them to use these services as supplementary. 3) They pay taxes...by using illegal means to fool the government. Yeah that's a hard one to pin down since we have so little information. We know it happens, we just don't how many do it rather than taking untaxed under the table money. Many employers pay cash to "contractors". That absolves the workplace from having to deal with payroll taxes. Changing their status may gain us more taxes as many would become legal employees. However, there's a big difference between pathway to citizenship and temporary residency. You even noted question #1 that many leave when the jobs dry up. 4) The waiting line has been impacted by the huge rate of illegal immigration. Furthermore there is a huge conflation here between receiving citizenship and receiving temporary or permanent residency. Temporary residency is easy to get and wouldn't be impacted by chain migration removal. Again we go back to statement #1 and talk about temporary residency programs for workers. 5) Cultural destruction argument. This one is more about migration en masse. Yes those arguments were made in the past about other groups. Yes those other groups influenced our culture quite a bit. However, unlike other countries, the US was a melting pot at the time and was still developing a culture. The people who came over take several generations to assimilate to that melting pot. Those coming over today have no interest in being part of our culture. They're here for a job. And as you mentioned in statement #1 many go home when the jobs dry up. We want people who really want to be citizens. Not people who want that title so that they can get a job and create enclaves that don't assimilate. Yes by the 3RD generation. Not the 1st. Not the 2nd. THE THIRD GENERATION is when English is dominant. By that point their children's children are so removed from their predecessors culture and language that its natural and frankly necessary. That's not a decent argument to make in favor of illegal immigration since English is a requirement for legal 1st gen immigrants. There is no 2nd generation gap. I'm disappointed in Reason over this video. I expected much better than watching someone make the same progressive arguments that conflate legal and illegal immigration. This could have been done so much better.

Wow. Just one hour since the upload and it already has over 70 dislikes more than likes.

I think that #5 is the most reasonable argument and one that I support. We can't just let everyone in.

The population of the US growing at an incredible rate for a nation where women have roughly 2 children on average. The US has grown by about the population of Germany in 25 years do to this. Its' absurd and unhealthy. Adam Smith said that government had a role to play in maintaining social cohesion, at it seems to me that setting sensible levels of immigration would definitely fall under that role.

The only problem I have with immigrants today is that they may still believe in the failed policies of their home country. Especially from any other American Country including Canada. The difficulty of entering the US helps separate some of the unindustrious ones who make their own countries poor. Probably the greatest immigration we have in the US currently are Indians who are leaving their socialist country and adopting classical liberal ideals in the US.

If every piece of land in a country were owned by some person, group, or corporation, this would mean that no person could enter unless invited to enter and allowed to rent or purchase property. A totally privatized country would be as closed as the particular property owners desire. It seems clear, then, that the regime of open borders that exists de facto in the U.S. and Western Europe really amounts to a compulsory opening by the central state, the state in charge of all streets and public land areas, and does not genuinely reflect the wishes of the proprietors. -- Murray Rothbard

Immigration could be a good thing. But massive immigration will replace the culture of the host country and the reason why people immigrate in the first place is because their home culture sucks when it comes to create wealth, nevertheless they carry this culture with them.

Also disingenuous about1/3 immigrants now marrying outside of ethnic groups. He said it's the same as the 1990s... umm yeah because that's when we still had the majority of our immigrants coming from Mexico so of course it should be the same as back then... I'd like to see some credible info on how many European immigrants marry outside their ethnic group back long before the 1990s. Because back then it was majority Europeans immigrating to the US

I appreciate the sentiment, but I wish you were right on the argument. Your argument has a major flaw in it. It's the same argument as saying that "Sadam didn't have weapons of mass destruction". It's the argument that status quo can be expected to continue even when trends are changing. That's just wrong. It's not a reasonable thing to expect. Asking that immigration drop down to Clinton-era numbers is not anti-immigrant. It's steming the tide. By the way, most 1st generation (US-born) immigrants traditionally had spoken English at home (with each other) -- not 3rd.

Dont walk run productions, did a great takedown of this video

@moved2bitchute779

4 жыл бұрын

*Exceptional

@cheesemccheese5780

2 жыл бұрын

I like his videos.

Very skeptical about those percentages and how they calculated them.

WOW! Reason I usually trust what you post, but I have to say I have friends and family members that are first gen immigrates and their first hand experiences show me that your arguments on welfare, waiting in line and don't pay taxes are wrong. From my undocumented Immigrant neighbor who builds houses to my friend who has a mechanical engineering degree and had to wait for 8 years before he could even come into this country from Cuba, I could write a book of examples. As for cultural destruction the only real impact I see is everyone wanting me to speak Spanish ( not that big of a deal). as for jobs I tend to believe there are plenty of jobs for those who are willing to work. I really am disappointed in this peace because it just show that ReasonTV's commitment to journalistic integrity isn't what I though it was.

They do not just clean up construction sites sir. They take them over entirely...sir.

I am all for legal immigration and would support increased legal immigration but anyone who broke our laws as an adult by illegally entering or staying in this country should be deported. You talk about how if they "get in line" they will never get a chance but why should criminals(which is what an illegal is) get to be citizens before people who are trying to be legal immigrants. And I have to agree with Rand Paul when he said that not everyone who wants to be an American can be. When my ancestors came to this country from Denmark most of their family stayed in Denmark including their adult children. Which is why my grandma still has first cousins in Denmark.

@holycrapchris

6 жыл бұрын

Deporting people who broke the law in the past may produce worse social outcomes. Consider a Dreamer who crossed the border as a child. They're now an adult employed as a nurse. If she is deported, who benefits? Not her, not her employer, not the patients, and not society, who would rather have law enforcement focused on violent crimes. An illegal immigrant who is not a contributing member to society? That's a different story.

@jesseward4115

6 жыл бұрын

Which is why I said people who came into this country as an adult should be deported. If you came in while under 18 or were born in the US by an illegal than you absolutely should get citizenship but your parents and other family, back of the line. Law breakers should not get rewarded over people who are trying to follow the law.

Best way to take care of the illegal immigrant problem is to send them back. PERIOD. No Illegals, np problem. Here in Denver it is disgusting what they do. Killing people in accidents, lying to employers. Cutting corners at work. We dont need this.

My problem with the first argument is that the use of cheap labor, because it makes for cheap stuff is that that is just a different form of slavery.

Imigrants from Europe were great for Native americans. Imigrants from Europe were great for the arabs in Israel Imigrants from china were great for Tibet Natives Imigrants from turk tribes,central Ásia were great for byzantines/greeks.Should I Go on?

I dont really understand the mental gymnastics necessary to believe in free trade + closed borders

@homewall744

6 жыл бұрын

cristi1990an No, he means why can capital and goods move freely across a border but a human is prohibited by law.

@cristian-si1gb

6 жыл бұрын

Ah! Sorry wooki, I didn't read your comment properly... Have an upvote.

@wooki321

6 жыл бұрын

np m8

@AcidicMentality

6 жыл бұрын

If you trade you are exchanging property or money. People arn't money or property. No gymnastics involved.

@wooki321

6 жыл бұрын

potential workforce is just as much a part of the market as money and property

Oh...I thought he might actually have some valid points. His points were half reasoned at best. He is good at spinning things though...LOL

@captainpatchwork8107

6 жыл бұрын

Not an argument.

I don't understand how Libertarians can be in favor of any sort of immigration from the third world. Not letting someone in is not violating the non-aggression principle in any way. Not associating with someone you don't want to is not harming them. Also I feel like this is trying to overcomplicate the issue with how it could help the economy. Truthfully it might help in some ways and hurt in others, but if the third world was so productive, why aren't countries like Mexico and Guatemala and Somalia which are full of third worlders so productive? You get people that are different from the majority and by the way will never vote libertarian.

I'm not even sure what to say about this video. I'm okay with refugees and even a few economic migrants, but we should also be able to monitor who's a future criminal or even worse a terrorist.

@VindulaP

5 жыл бұрын

Agree. We should hire soothsayers into our immigration department.

You have a right about who comes into your house, but do you have a right to decide who goes into your neighbor's house?

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Martin Rheaume - Collectivist what? Things to abolish, repeal or change; partial list: necessary and proper clause general welfare clause commerce clause footnote four government schools Tariffs Federal Reserve FDIC IRS 16th Amendment 17th Amendment War Powers Resolution public sector unions antitrust laws Social Security Medicare Medicaid student loans Community Reinvestment Act war on mind-altering substances IMF World Bank HUD FHA FDA EPA FCC NLRB NLRA Certificate of Need Ethanol Mandate National Flood Insurance Program Insider Trading Laws Professional Licensing Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws Transportation Security Administration Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act minimum wage Obamacare National Defense Authorization Act Sugar Program Agriculture Adjustment Act (AAA)

@dillan3253

6 жыл бұрын

I don't care about Canada's immigration policies

@antman1672

6 жыл бұрын

When your neighbor can get together and vote to take away your house, yes, yes you do have a right.

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Jesus Christ - you might want to reread my comment slowly.

@feartheghus

6 жыл бұрын

2VNews only an idiot thinks we need to remove the general welfare clause for the same reason only an idiot thinks they meant welfare like we have today, it was a statement of reason for why they made the constitution

Thank you for putting together this well-researched video that sheds light on a very prominent topic, even though it's no doubt not going to get much love or attention.

The USA is a magnet. 1. We should select people looking to work and motivated to build their American dream, particularly if they have skills. 2. We should select from a variety of sources and bring them into the fold, rather than setting up isolated ethnic communities

Okay, a lot to unpack here... Reason does at least try to delineate between legal and illegal immigration. However, they dip between the two often and quickly. This combined with poor citations makes it either poor production or an attempt to obsfucate their arguments. As well, they seem to be OK with the illegal part here. Most of their arguments stem from the illegal immigrants not meaningfully impacting the market. That isn't the point for most people, it's that they broke the law. Argue to change the law, alright. Reason seemes to be arguing that the law should be ignored as the effects of breaking it are inconsequential. 1) Maybe Reason staff make well above minimum wage, but a 5% drop for someone barely making it is huge. That impact cannot be overlooked. Also, the cost to consumers that woukd be seen if we no longer used sub-minimum-wage illegal labor is actually unknowable. You can never know how a single factor will impact market pricing. 2) This is interesting, as here Reason continues to argue against current immigration law by employing another. Many people do not agree that children born to illegal immigrants should be naturalized. It is a law that one time made sense. It may not now, but Reason takes this as unassailable fact for their argument. As well, it does not matter if the slice is small as they should get no slice of the welfare pie. Finally, 2% of all emergency medical spending is a huge amount of actual dollars; this argument is incredibly ignorant on their part. 3) So the argument against illegal immigrants not paying their share is that 50% of them sort of do? Okay, so I guess we thank Reason here for supporting that argument! 4) Wait, so the Reason argument here is that non citizens may not get into the USA in their lifetime so dodging the legal process is understandable but the citizens in example 1 with a potential 5% pay decrease from illegal immigration should suck it up?! Just... wow. It's a good thing much of Reason's interviews are high quality because this alone almost got me to unsub. 5) I can't find a real hole here. I think a lot of people see the new-ish affinity to ex-US culture by multi-generational Americans as a sign of lack of assimilation rather than what it is: US demands for consumption becoming more global.

"All cultures are equal"- Reasontv

When *ReasonTV* loses all reason.

This video should be called "Advocacy for open borders"

Obviously he never addresses Rotherham or the dozens of cases like it. Obviously he never addresses the escalation of terrorism. Because of course not.

Either you believe in freedom and markets (including the labor market) or you don't.

@deeplorable8988

6 жыл бұрын

Freedom within a system, yes. 7 billion people on this planet. Of which half live in desperate poverty. Unrestricted immigration would allow all those willing to work for slave wages to enter the country. Eventually turning our country into a third world hellhole too. Of course, there will still be the 1% super rich that benefit from slaves. But, the vast majority will fall into poverty and become welfare recipients. Think with more nuance, not just ideologically.

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Dee Plorable - You seem to not understand how markets work. Study up on that.

@lokiopensloloc5680

6 жыл бұрын

If you think that unregulated immigration helps economies and the people it comprises of then you're remarkably economically illiterate. Reason TV omits reason 6, that is that if you are being forced to take immigrants by an external force such as the EU then you should oppose it for the sake of your national economy. Libertarianism works within a national context, not an international one. Self placed barriers don't contradict Libertarian values.

@2vnews902

6 жыл бұрын

Lokio Pens Loloc - You seem to not understand how markets work. Study up on that.

@deeplorable8988

6 жыл бұрын

2VNews You seem to not have an argument. *Study up on that*

"It's hard, so it's okay to just let them come in unvetted." Yeah, no, not a good argument, sorry.

Terrible set of arguments, sounds like the sort self justifications you might hear around a cheap middle class dinner party on why its OK to have an illegal maid and get her husband to look after the car and her brother in law to fix the plumbing.

bs in SF they get food stamp , welfare , some even cheat the system while they work , they DO NOT pay the same tax as working American , yeah they steal other people ss# , send them all home , or if u support them take in a family or stfu

This is a really good video, thank you :)

I like libertarianism because it is based on rational self interest... this immigration argument you presented is the furthest thing from rational. and the furthest thing from self interest. so lets count all they ways you are wrong. 1. They take our jobs and lower wages. (absolutely and obviously true) your spin and cherry picked data are too easy to dismantle. - immigration is by definition an increase in the labor supply. (particularly the low/no skill labor supply) basic rules of supply and demand unequivocally mean that an increase in the supply equates to a decrease the clearing price for labor; thus a decrease in wages. the means by which this happens is that immigrants underbid native taxpayers for jobs, = they dont take jobs from taxpayers, they take job opportunities. thus natives don't immediately lose the jobs they have, but the more immigrants are bidding for jobs, the fewer jobs they will be able to get in the future. Entire industries have slowly turned to 100% NEW immigrant labor over the course of the last 50 years. These companies refuse to hire anybody who has citizenship, more specifically they refuse to hire anybody who has rights and valued skills. As soon as an immigrant in these jobs gets citizenship, education and language skills they are fired before they can ask for a raise. -Mexican immigrants have ALREADY displaced the entirety of blacks in low/no skill labor. Blacks now have NO job opportunities at all. immigrants have also displaced the majority of unskilled whites and other ethnicity but not to the extent that blacks workers have been displaced. -wages being depressed by only 5%. whos ass did you pull this out of. America has a federal minimum wage. Almost all low/no skill laborers are working FOR the minimum wage. let me tell you how minim wage works. - you get paid starting at the legal minimum, - at the end of the year you get mandated 5% raise, - your company fires you and hires somebody else at minimum wage because there are so many immigrants around, they don't need to be paying you 5% more than minimum wage. - The statisticians look at the data and see that immigration only depresses wages from 5% above absolute legal minimum to the absolute legal minimum. because of minimum wage, its impossible to quantitatively measure the full effect of the wage depression. They conclude the actual wage depression must be MUCH MUCH higher but its impossible to measure - Some unscrupulous asshole (/ a shitty reporter) claims that wages are only affected by 5%. repeats this statistic without any of the caveats (its guaranteed to be much higher) 2. They're using massive amounts of welfare. (your stats prove this to be true, just got to look past your obvious data manipulation) - they use healthcare (2% of all spending) also they have children who became "naturalized" and those children also use massive amounts of healthcare. (10% of all spending). convinient how you gave the statistic for total national spending instead of government spending. as a percentage of total spending its about 2% as a percentage of (government/institutional/uncovered=taxpayer) spending its closer to 20% and their children who are "naturalized" make up another 50% of taxpayer spending on health care. and thats the problem. taxpayer spending is supposed to catch "Taxpayers" in that safety net. 0.0001% is too high a number for "taxpayers" to be paying for "non-taxpayers" health care. - 1:35 your chart shows splits immigrants into two categories just so you can mislead about the numbers. native born = citizen, naturalized = immagrant, non citizen = immagrant. so lets just add your numbers back up into that category that you claim to be talking about. and for simplicity we will just assume that anybody who is not native born is some kind of immigrant. though we should keep in mind that your "native born" category definitly includes Anchor babies and second generation immagrants. -Medicaid: native-born = 25.6%, non-native born = 74.6% = 3/4 goes to non natives, 1/4 gets split between anchor babies, second gen immigrants and deserving citizense. (whos parents and grandparents have been paying onto the program since its inception.) -SNAP: native-born = 32.5%, non-native = 67.5% = 2/3 to non natives , 1/3 split between anchor babies, sencond gens and deserving citizense. -SSI: native born: 7% percent, 11.5% non- native (funny how this one is obviously pecent of population using service and the rest of your statistics percent of service being used by population. ) its almost like you manipulated all the data untill it showed what you wanted it to show. -and the final stat. illegal immigrants have more jobs per capital than legal immigrants who have more jobs per capital than native-citizens. (nice state, it PROVES you were lying about your first argument. so they dont take jobs from natives but they do have less than half as much unemployment as natives. 3.They don't pay their fair share. ( obviously its impossible for an immigrant to ever pay the same portion as a native citizen) -they pay the same sales tax and property taxes (PER YEAR) unfortunate they have only been here for 3 days so the total tax contribution from a new immigrant family is measured in tens of dollars. native families (who have been hear since before income tax was invented , 100 years ago) get to measure their families total tax contributions during the course of citizenship in the tens of millions of dollars. 10/10 million = THEY DONT PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE lest be generous. if they pay 20 years worth of back taxes for each parent and 10 years worth of additional back taxes for each child they have, then we can call it square. that should be enough to have their contribution register for all the schools, healthcare, roads and infrastructure they start using literally the second they arrive having never paid a single dime toward such costs to society. if all of the education health and infrastructure was privatized and you pay as you go, (AN ACTUAL LIBERTARIAN IDEAL) then obviously they can use it as much as they can afford. like everybody else. 4. they aren't waiting in line, They're bringing all their relatives. (obviously they arent waiting in line, and you prove they are bringing their families) -we are bringing in 65,000-100,000 per year legally, (yep) and yet 600,000 new ones sow up each year in California alone. (so obviously, they aren't waiting in line) -the wait list has 1.4 million people on it. (ok) -there is no chance of ever getting in. (HUH? you are still REALLY bad at math. 1.4 million / 65k-100k per year = wait-list is 14 -20 years. in the previouse argument we saw that they should pay 20 years worth of back taxes before they come in, so giving them 14 -20 years notice to come up with those back taxes is just about perfect. However we don't even require that now, so all they have to do is sit tight and wait, maybe spend 14 years learning English, getting temporary work visas where they can start paying that tax deffecit they bring with them... you know, INTEGRATING. -also, not sure if you heard, humans live longer than 14 years, so the math says they are guaranteed to get in within 14 years, which is literally the exact opposite of "no chance of ever getting in"... which is what you said... you moron! 5. They're not assimilating. (again you demonstrate how obvious that is) -1/3 marry outside their ethnicity. (so 1/3 assimilate) - how many Irish and Italians are willing to marry other assimilated Americans, learned the language and taught their kids the language and culture...? (all of them) -how long have Mexicans had to learn a culture of assimilation? - 500 years and they are at 30% willing to assimilate -how long did it take European immigrants to fully assimilate? - 30-40 year to get to 100% assimilation. i think you might be overlooking some obvious red flags. -so lets break your logic down - 1/3 of Mexicans marry for a green card... (proof they assimilate) - most Irish and Italians 5-10th gen citizens don't call themselves Irish or Italian anymore and also speak English good too ... (proof that Mexicans will eventually assimilate?) = WORST LOGIC EVER This is by far the worst spin i have ever seen from ReasonTV. Its so obvious, pathetic and self contradictory that i couldn't help but tear it to pieces. if Reason pushes this delusional immigration bullshit anymore i'm going to have to unsubscribe on principal. here is how society works 1. economy , free markets. 2. public trust, strong charity. 3. immigration and labor investment arbitrage. 4. Government intervention, safety nets, redistribution. you cannot have any returns from later categories unless you take away from previous categories you can have 100% ROI from free markets alone if you want a benefit from public trust; society by definition, must take that economic power away from free markets any benefit you get from immigration; by definition must be taken out of public trust and the economy any benefit you get from government intervention; comes at the expense of the economy, public trust, and immigration. you are libertarians. If you prop up immigration before you reduce government... then make no mistake about it. -You are stealing from the economy and the public trust. no exceptions. i get that you don't want people to demonize immigration, because without government intervention immigration wouldn't actually be a problem at all. it would be entirely self regulated by the free market. But here is the thing. instead of making up bullshit statistics to try and defend immigration destructive effect on social safety nets and public trust. MAYBE you should be using the real statistics to prove that the problem is that the government policies are being taken advantage of by immigrants. don't lie about immigrants cheating on taxes and medicaid tell the truth, to get rid of taxes and Medicaid

Welfare is actually a huge issue. Yearly California expenses are supposivly billions more then immigrant revenue for illegals. Here in colorado they get in state tuition for colleges played for by the taxpayer. Focus on welfare first reason tv then focus on immigration. Free immigration can't exist in areas where there are welfare

Argument 4. So the solution there is to help expedite the legal process rather than support illegal immigration.