These rules sound like a response to their personal group tbh.

@ashtinpeaks9972

Ай бұрын

This, drugs, being late, cheating (rolling dice before declare shit) breaking shit. Sounds like this DM literally had hell on earth. I think the DM just needs a break + new table.

@hweidigiv

Ай бұрын

Six months as a player and a new table, at least.

It feels to me after reading them and watching a few yet videos that this was written by a teenager/younger DM very fed up with their online table. It reminds me of when I (a 36 yo) DM for my niece and her cousins, who are 10.

This feels like an example of dnd trauma. As in, they tried dming, it failed spectaculary, and they made specific rules to prevent a repeat. Especially with so many rules about subjective rulings and turn timers, I'd imagine someone pulled an orbital lazer immovable rod or something similar on them

Context for people seeing this for first time: I have seen multiple places that the DM didnt post the rules on reddit the player did. Some people went through the players reddit and they seemed like an ass apparently. I wouldnt be surprised if this table was just one of the worst tables on earth. Especislly rukes like drugs comments

@TheCurseofGatau

Ай бұрын

I read about that too. It reads like a DM who’s at the end of their rope. The OP deleted the post because of that.

I don't understand why you seem to think the 'reasonable rules' in there loose validity 'with context'. I think if anything, the context makes me think the players portraied some seriously troubling behaviour. If anything the DM definitely didn't seem like he felt appreciated by the players. Yes the DM is obviously lashing out in anger here, but he posted this in a private group, the players posted it to Reddit. There is some seriously toxic dynamic going on here and I for one am not convinced it's just the DM. The DM could just be a control freak, who takes himself way too seriously, or they could be someone who was burned by a bad group.

It seems like a lot of people are confused by the harder combat, 2 char sheet thing, but it seems clear to my ADHD brain that tends to automatically fill in the blanks… The DM is just saying to bring a backup character, but don’t expect to immediately be inserted into the action when your first character dies…

My reaction is less of "oh god what a terrible dm and more of "..who hurt you? D:"

I have a 30 sec hourglass that I will throw on the table if someone is taking way too long. As soon as i put it on the table players always, 100%, make a decision in 10 sec. People just need a nudge.

@ronturner3598

Ай бұрын

the boggle one is 3 minutes and is pretty good to allow for spellcasters

I once had a 4 round fight that took 3 hours to resolve. In this one player picked up the PHB and spent 30 minutes reading how his level 4 monk works ON HIS TURN. He could've done this one other people's turns. So many times have I heard people say "I don't know how my character works". WELL READ!!! I am on the DM's side for the 1st rule. Yeah he's salty, I'm salty too. You would be salty too!

@Cloud_Seeker

Ай бұрын

The "I don't know how my character works" is not an excuse if the player have been in the group for over a month or played 3-5 sessions. If a player takes 30min to read up the rules during combat just to understand what they are doing, I am going to skip them. Each player as an obligation to learn what their character can do before each session.

@Briskeeeen

Ай бұрын

Same, but 1 minute is way too short. I'd probably do 3-5 minutes for normal encounters while doing 10 minutes for really important encounters.

@Mastikator

Ай бұрын

@@Briskeeeen Whatever number you decide on is not important. What is important that the players get the memo that taking too long is disrespectful to the other players. In my experience you'll only have to skip a turn once or twice before players pick up the pace.

@Cloud_Seeker

Ай бұрын

@@Briskeeeen I don't actually agree with that 1 minute is short. If you read up on the rules, and know your character. You do not need 1 minute until you hit level 8 or 10 or so. You are supposed to think about your turn, while everyone else deal with their turn. If everyone have 1 minute, that is 4-5 minutes you have to think about what to do. Just consider how long a battle will takes if everyone takes 3 minutes to think about what to do. If you have 4 players and 1 DM. And the average battle last 4 rounds. That is 60 minutes, where most of it is just waiting for your turn. Remember. There is 12 minutes between your turns. You can go and make some kind of snack while you wait. And if everyone is doing that, they will not pay attention to the game and require 3-5 minutes to make their turn as they were away when the information they required was given to them.

@ronturner3598

Ай бұрын

I won't play at a table without timed turns. Boggle timer hourglass is perfect for experienced tables.

I actually think this is a real person; seems too specific to problems not to have dealt with them. In context of all the rules, there they seem extreme, but there are a lot of anti-cheating rules in there: submit your spell lists ahead of time, I will take punitive action if you do not mark off spell slots, roll dice where someone can see you, declare your actions before you roll... in order for these to be needed rules, he has to be playing with people who are or he thinks are cheating. There are a few rules about social niceties that imply the group is pretty bad. Having a rule about not getting drunk or high in a game or leaving every 10 minutes to smoke or hit the bong implies they are doing this; why else have a rule about it? Coupled with the do not complain and I will not take you home if you complain implies people are complaining at them the entire ride home after he told them to stop. Plus there are various rules about disagreeing with his rulings; it makes it sound like he spent too much time arguing with a belligerent drunk who keeps leaving so they have no idea what is going on in the game.

@simonteesdale9752

Ай бұрын

Yeah, it's clearly a DM who's snapped from a bad group of players. That's not to say that the DM is faultless. A lot of these are tryannical overreactions to problematic behaviours, often in a way that's counterproductive.

@rynowatcher

Ай бұрын

@@simonteesdale9752 I read a lot of these as the final step before they leave. Ie, if you have a bad relationship where you catch your partner cheating on you, some decide to give them a path forward by making strict rules... that the players responded to by embarrassing the dm by basically posting an unhinged section of a private conversation. Rule 3 specifically states he will not give them a ride home unless they STOP complaining. Given the tone of the doc, unless the gm is super passive aggressive, that means he asked them to stop gripping about the game as he is driving them home.

@rynowatcher

Ай бұрын

@@simonteesdale9752 counter productive implies there can be some kind of progress. If I have to make a rule that says you cannot urinate in my drink when I am out of the room, there is a very good reason for that rule, but the fact I had to make it a rule means we are just counting down to one of us leaving. A lot of critics of this dm are assuming the players are normal, but having rules against showing up high and leaving the room every ten minutes to hit the bong in the middle of a social activity is not something you have to tell a normal person. I do not really see a path forward with a group that has to have rolling dice method prescribed because the group cannot be trusted not to cheat. There is no conversation you can have if someone who has a lot of these issues; it is not like they are going to be like, "oh, you are right, I did not know me lying about my dice rolls is bad."

I think this is rooted in a deep problem, the Um Actually Rule i at least read it as “if you treat me like a rules lawyer and mock me, fight me over it” this is not just a guy with lack of self-awareness, this is a guy that wants, desperately, to play d&d without friends to do so, he’s involved in a game with people that don’t want to play like he wants, maybe not at the extreme of this rules but in a serious way, and the only group he has is with people that drink and smokes and don’t care at all, and when he wants to be talen seriously he receives just irony? he literally uses the dnd rules and punish them in-game because he doesn’t want to stop playing but he doesn’t have the group that he wants, it’s sad, because probably there are people that could get the best out of this DM, and he can’t find these players

I read like 15 of these rules, there's a lot of anger in them and just seems like the person snapped ( if it isn't faked ). I used to DM for D&D but it made me too angry and sad, i literally got abused by some players ( old and new ). I think D&D players take DMs for granted, they're more like butlers now than story tellers. I noticed as a DM my fun and what i wanted isn't something the average D&D players wants. A lot of times its assumed that for DMs its "your a bad DM it's your fault" or "just let the players have fun, give them everything". I never felt so alienated by an online community before.

@robinmohamedally7587

Ай бұрын

There's a lot of unjustified entitlement in this culture. Narcissism is rampant. It's not even worth DM'ing for a group anymore.

@modtyrant1784

Ай бұрын

@@robinmohamedally7587 Ya it feels more like getting bossed around by guild mates in an MMO. To be fair i have veteran players that are really good but its only like 2 players, its not enough.

So, after a bit of digging, I was able to find out a few things. TL;DR, everything here was absolutely the players fault because almost every bad player behavior listed here was intentional by the players. This set of rules was a response from the DM to the players trying to get the DM back so they could bully him some more after their hiatus. When this post originally came out, a lot of people noticed that this sounded like a very angry, but very HURT DM. A few people were curious to see if there were any other stories like this from the OP. Turns out, OP had previously posted many times about gameplay behavior and the DM. However, it was the player bragging in other subreddits that they and their group had been bullying the DM intentionally for some time. Begging for or demanding more and more powerful magical items, smoking often, cheating, complaining, arguing, gaslighting, and the works. They continued to go out of their way to give the DM a bad time. This claim is also supported when you look at the number of rules that SPECIFICALLY mention Reddit. People started calling OP out on this, and that is why they not only deleted the post, but they deleted their account. Getting into speculation now. This looks like the DM took a hiatus/break with every intention of trying to just break up the party. However, the party was likely trying to get the DM back into playing with the group, hoping to be able to abuse them some more. So in response the DM decided he'd lay down a law for everything they'd done to wrong him as something of an ultimatum. "If we're going to be playing together, these are my terms. I'm tired of all of this, and you will either fix your behavior, or I will stop playing with you and you will hate playing with me." A lot of people also mention the language and how aggressive this DM Seems to be given the profanity shown. I have a few theories on this. Firstly, is that given that this isn't the DM, but the OP who posted this, it's possible that they just punched up the language to be worse than it actually was. This is supported by the OPs previous language and posts as well. Secondly, given some of the specific language used, we can assume that this group is either in the UK, or Austrailia. If they're in the UK, particularly on the northern side(Scotland and the like), they have quite liberal use of various swear words, so there might not even be the same amount of spite we here in Northern America might attribute to it. Often times, we in the Us/Canadia make the bad assumption that UK= Polite and posh British. But don't forget, the UK includes Britain, Wales, N Ireland, and Scotland. Even further, if this was in Australia, then this would be a *polite* response to this group, given the lack of the use of the C Word. There's also a small chance he's military as well,(Former military myself,) and really, swear words just become interrogatives and common adjectives at that point, though prior service is much less likely. With that in mind, It's entirely possible then that this DM isn't actually as rude as we give him credit for. With all of this in mind, this was a DM that was tired of the bullshit, and likely wanted nothing to do with this group given their behavior. With everything here, the players were obviously the bad guys here, and OP at the very least knew it. It seems like the DM caught on as well and was basically saying: "Okay then. If you want me back to try and play your fuck-fuck games, I can play back." So OP Used that to try and get some extra Reddit Karma, but instead got some real and proper karma in return.

Given the way this came about, I'm pretty sure it's 100% real. For context, it was a reddit post in D&D horror stories, where one of the players posted it going LMAO, look at these stupid rules my DM made. He's absolutely tyrannincal and just an awful DM. Then when people started commenting that, while it was written in an overly aggressive manner that the player posting it is likely at least part of the problem, they deleted the list. A satirical post wouldn't be so understandable (albiet extreme). You can see the behaviours that a lot of these rules stem from.

I feel like a lot of these "rules" aren't really rules. Overall this was a rant that the dm put to paper and called it rules to get the players to read. Players likely pushed the DM to this, given how specific some are, and after reading through these most of them feel like an excuse for them to just leave or shut down any "backtalk". Some rules are valid but most of this is just a rant by the dm. Also , if after a hiatus they still feel like this its time to end thst campaign, no game should have you feeling like this.

Timing turns isn't inherently bad, but 1 min is unreasonably short. 3 min is better. An egg timer.

@logancuster8035

Ай бұрын

In my experience it really depends on who you are playing with. If anyone at your table struggles with anxiety and being put on the spot this could feel like torture. My group has several people like that so we don’t. Our agreement is that if someone is panicking and doesn’t know what to do on their turn they can take their turn after the next creature. It doesn’t alter their permanent position in initiative we just keep moving and come back to them. It’s been very effective. I have talked to my group about how this is an accommodation though, and if they start using it tactically we would have to readdress the ruling.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

I can get behind not wanting someone’s turn to take like 10 minutes every time, I get that, gotta keep the pace. But yeah, exactly one minute or you do nothing is just insane lol

@matthewparker9276

Ай бұрын

@@InsightCheck the other part of making it better is having a default action to take instead of doing nothing, like dodging or attacking the nearest enemy.

@matthewparker9276

Ай бұрын

@@logancuster8035 it also can depend on the vibe you're going for. A beer and pretzels game with lots of meming isn't going to be improved by restricting turn times.

@pheralanpathfinder4897

Ай бұрын

Many groups complain about slow combat. At game stores DMs often find they have 12 players at the table sometimes more.

I think timing turns is good in context. For example: group of 5+ doing a one-shot, and need to finish in less than 3 hours. Besides, 1 min of thinking time is doable, especially for lower level parties

Who hurt this man with Guidance and broke his stuff? His group sounds awful for him. Smoke and bong breaks every 10 minutes!? ;_;

@simonteesdale9752

Ай бұрын

I'm guessing that the Guidance thing is because the players were using it for literally every check, or just complaining about not being allowed to use it when it wouldn't make sense.

There is wisdom in these rules, just with a dash of harsh & exasperated DM. The 44 rules that can be reduced loosely to about 5 or 6 rules in session zero. 1. RP: Required & will affect your outcome. 2. Be mindful of others' time with punctuality & preparedness. 3. I brought my gear and would appreciate you treat them well. 4. Some Spells are banned. 5. Travel: there's no random encounters. Just point A --> point B. 6. Combat: Everyone has 1 min for their turn. No take-backsies on movement. I can see that maybe they've prepared an RP heavier session, but a loosey-goosey Fireball ruined it by killing all the NPC's because of LAWLS. The two issues are, firstly, that the DM controls characters, not players, and punishes the players by punishing their characters. Lastly, the DM wants to be respected but does not respect back. It's a two-way street. P.S. Instant Death Traps may likely been a concept of older dnd. If I knew this going in as a Player (thanks to the 44 rules), I'd have prepared the abysmal Find Traps Spell, Dungeon Delver, Observant, Shield Master. Half of instant Death is half dead ey~ but alas, there's no mechanics about rocks fall, everyone dies. This DM needs to be a player again.

This sounds like DND hard core mode I kinda am interested.

For real though? That one about no-showing twice in a row I abide by religiously. Had way too many people (in the double digits) just no-show, sometimes with no notice despite, being "totally interested" in playing. Like, if you don't want to even show up to make a character, don't agree to play. It's forthright and saves a spot for someone who may actually want to play while still maintaining the good nature of friendship. After you're passed a few sessions, as long as the person is being communicative as to interruptions, missing sessions shouldn't be a problem. First part of that rule is unmistakably garbage, though. Don't subtract levels or items. It's bad enough they're already behind the party if the party made any progress.

Within satire, some pain does crawl through the words. :v

The 44 rules sound like 20% DM being a dick and 80% whatever group sending the DM up the wall some of these rules are just too specific.

Oh shit, I'm here for the reddit reaction commentary

I've seen quite a few of these reactions to this (bandwagon lol). It is weirdly consistent that the 'reactor' has trouble figuring out what what these rules mean, and recognizing that they're a response to previous events. By contrast, when this got posted to a discord full of GMs, they sussed out *instantly* what must have been the situation pre-hiatus.

16:27 this isn't uncommon... I have seen it run at many tables. Its used to prevent cheating and help build encounters. Sometimes you csman build an encounter with the spells in mind to either chalkenge the player or give them an insanely fun moment with their spell.

The only viable response to that was obviously "not reading that essay"

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

LOL

@sexuallyconfusedpenguin2646

Ай бұрын

This DM obviously doesn't want to DM for this group, so that response would just be the confirmation of this hiatus becoming permanent.

Too bad there weren't 25 extra rules, that way at least it would have something *nice* (😏) about these rules

Dudes post has already been ran through the mud, hes not had a good time with his group, and or friends, and hes still trying. this needs to not be public anymore

If this DM is real, then all these rules are is a very salty long winded way of asking someone else to take over DMing

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

10000% Assuming it’s not just a troll post this person absolutely does not want to play or run D&D lol

@rynowatcher

Ай бұрын

So, I think this is a real person because the complaints are too specific in some cases otherwise. I am not sure the dm is all that is wrong with this group here, though. Using the logic that the rules only exist because someone broke it, there are a lot of rules about not cheating (people must see your dice rolled, I have to see your spell list, if I catch you not marking off spell slots I will take punitive action...) and a lot about basic human decency (do not get drunk or high in the game, stop complaining when I ask you to, do not leave every ten minutes to smoke or hit a bong, I cannot trust you not to ruin all my stuff if food is present, do not break my stuff in front of my face and lie about breaking it...) that make the group sound nightmarish to me.

@The_Crimson_Witch

Ай бұрын

@rynowatcher And the correct response to such a group is to say "I no longer want to run games for you guys for these reasons". Not "I'm going to say go fuck yourself 44 times"

@The_Crimson_Witch

Ай бұрын

@@rynowatcher Then the correct response is "I don't want to DM for you guys because of these reasons, if you want me to keep DMing these need to be addressed." Not a list of 44 'rules' that are caked in salt to force them to fix it or get out. You aren't obligated to be a DM, nor to DM for that specific group. Anyone who feels entitled to your time or your table is just that, entitled.

@rynowatcher

Ай бұрын

@@The_Crimson_Witch there is not a "correct response" when you are dealing with people. Whatever relationship they have might be working for them. This one in particular has potential substance abuse and personal boundary issues that they are working through. Setting hard boundaries with punitive measures might be the only way to keep players from showing up 2 hours late, drunk, and keep them from leaving literally every 10 minutes to hit a bong. We have no idea if these 44 rules were made because everyone is breaking all of them all the time or if only a few members of the group breaks 1-2 every few games. It is hard to call if you only know one side. There are also a lot of things that you cannot "just talk about" such as the rules against willful cheating. I do not get what you could talk the issue out or what that would accomplish. Most of the punitive rules in this list are things I feel most dms would just quit the group over; it shows an odd degree of concern that they are actually trying to make it work after you caught the group in large cheating on dice roles, cheating by changing their spell list, and cheating by not marking spell slots. Sure the tone is very "in your face" but most rules I see as fairly rational within the context of the whole. I can understand taking a strongly worded stance as two rules are literally about stop complaining if I ask you to stop and do not take out in game frustrations out on me in real life. Personally, I would not get to this point, but the dm is getting enough out of this to try to salvage it and the players are getting enough to keep coming back. There has to be something there that is good and the good must on some level be out weighing the bad for them.

These rules were so obviously not meant to a new group but a group of complete and utter asshole who constantly abused this poor DM and he came up with this list for the sole purpose of telling then to leave him alone. I have zero sympathy for those players and all sympathy for the DM.

It's 100% satire.

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

Almost certainly lol but it was still fun to read through them :)

@spooderous

Ай бұрын

@@InsightCheck they're saying all the intrusive thoughts so we don't have to :) unhinged but funny

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

@spooderous 100%

This dm is either terrible or has finally snapped from a TERRIBLE group

Half of the rulings would be fine if it wasn’t presented in such an antagonistic way. This sounds like a bad DM who has a bad group, but they are bad in opposite ways and can’t communicate their issues in a healthy way.

@ashtinpeaks9972

Ай бұрын

I don't think the DM is fully bad. Tbh. I think they might just not know how to deal with conflict with people. He should be just talking to them irl and in this case finding a new group. Sounds like something snapped basically

@hweidigiv

Ай бұрын

I think the GM doesn't know how/when to kick problem players. Symptom of never having it modelled for them.

A turn is supposed to be 6 seconds. Taking 10x that irl is not unreasonable.

I believe this is satires. But in the case that yhis is 100% real, well damn good look trying to DM anything i guess😅

@InsightCheck

Ай бұрын

Hahahaha yeah I’m also quite confident it’s satire but I think we’ve all seen too many of these “rules” unironically stated on Reddit and around KZread lol