OP has the patience of a Saint. If I were them, I'd have blown up at Dave, probably around the time OP was spending their gold on gifts for the party whilst Dave claimed they were greedy. The low effort gaslighting, the arrogance, the obviously fudged rolls, all capped off with the psycho character death threats make for a perfect "that guy". Truly worthy of a chef's kiss.

@johngleeman8347

Жыл бұрын

Indeed Dave has earned his rightful place in the Halls of Shame. May he be forced to play boring modules with the other c!@# players for all time.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

This was me and I was so pissed. But for some reason I had the mentality that I had to address it in-game and I wasn't there for those comments. I'm really glad I spoke up though and that the group (at least finally) had my back. We're still going strong many months later! We even found a player that's a complete treasure, Dave's opposite in every way. But compared to other horror stories out there, I know I'm lucky that mine had a good ending.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Apparently he's like this in all his games, from what we heard from his replacement who had played with him in the past.@@johngleeman8347

"You're a greedy dragon, so you're bad with money, you probably spent it all" Ah yes, greedy dragons are well known for spending all their money, definitely not for fervently amassing and guarding their hoards

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

In hindsight this baffles me. Greedy people amass wealth. Or they convert their wealth into something else. They don't spend it on GIFTS.

@muggins2279

3 ай бұрын

Amassing credit card debt

Oh, Doge...how _could_ you use Saitama in the thumbnail for this! Poor Saitama, dissed by the public in his universe, and dissed by the memes in this one. 😅 But seriously...great vid as always. Your calm, measured voice is always a treat. 🙂

I knew a GM who was a total enabler, the more grounded and realistic your character was, the worse off you were, cause he'd just allow you to do anything. One guy owned his own planet, a castle filled with servants, a factory that made him tens of thousands and whatever item he wanted, and tons more. Once had a player who was "that guy"'s friend just pick up some random scrap material from a junkyard and literally just stick it to his body without so much as a crafting roll or appropriate skill on his sheet, saying he was making some insanely high power armour, and the DM just let him do it... DM's have to know when to say no.

@schwarzerritter5724

Жыл бұрын

I played with a DM who would have none of that. Player wanted something similar to a chain sickle: Martial Weapon, 1d4 damage, Reach, Finesse. The DM allowed it only if the weapon lost Finesse at close range.

An enabling Dm sounds like my first campaign ever

@ChaosCounseling

Жыл бұрын

Boasting they could kill my character when ever yep sounds like my first campaign

@robinmohamedally7587

Жыл бұрын

@@ChaosCounseling that's not what "enabling" means. That's a power-tripping DM.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Enabling refers to allowing someone to do some bad behavior when they would otherwise be unable to if you didn't participate. So if someone is an alcoholic, I'm enabling them if I always suggest meeting up with them at a bar.

This DM was in serious need of a spine. But he did FINALLY do the right thing. Booting Dave was the only option, and the disposal of his character was especially appropriate. Pity it took so damn long.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, it really was a shame. But holy crap some of the other stories people had about him. I'll share this much, his character's backstory (this part was only communicated to the DM) was that his character had gotten raped and he wanted to gameify/fetishize it. I sadly don't remember the precise mechanics he wanted to use, but something about other party members finding him naked and him being forced to do some kind of roll to determine how his character reacted (I don't think I mentioned his character in the story, it was a "really hot" elf girl)

@7thsealord888

8 ай бұрын

@@UltimateChaos233 Uhhhh, HUH. Somehow, I'm not surprised. Certain things in certain character backstories really are best left implied, or even completely unsaid. Expecting the rest of the party to deal with that kind of thing is WAY too much. Eyeewww.

This just in: Dave has been found dead in Miami.

One of my biggest weaknesses as a DM is that I'm kind of a pushover, but even I wouldn't have let Dave get away with that much B.S. Holy cow.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Haha, I'm glad. I was OP here and this whole thing almost made me go back to pure DMing and writing off being a player as a lost cause. Glad I was able to stick it out and everything worked out.

I swear to god Dave makes m wanna unleash the power of that D20 stick that Den of the Drake just got.

How does anyone fall for that trick? A player insists on rolling dice in real life, rather than whatever online tools are available. That just seems suspicious on the surface.

@johngleeman8347

Жыл бұрын

Unless you want to roll with a camera pointed at your dice each time, get da f!@# out of here with that nonsense.

@andrewbyrne2173

Жыл бұрын

I honestly like and prefer rolling physical dice, and I’ve never rolled 17+ consistently. However if a DM needs me to roll virtual dice, that’s not a problem.

Dave: "I'm going to get away with literal murder!" GM: "lol okey. I as the abiter of supreme justice in this world am literally incapable of stopping this." The real problem was entirely the GM for being a wet blanket. If one player is literally ruining everyone else's fun and taking charge of your story, either stop them or let them GM because you're no longer the GM anymore; you're a player in That Guy's Mary Sue fantasies.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I'm embarassed (I'm OP) that it took me so long to realize that even if the DM was enabling him that I still had the power to just leave. For some context, it was a first time DM. I'm just glad that it all worked out in the end. When we found him dead in a ditch the DM even insinuated that he wasn't able to put up much of a fight, even though he was still clutching his Tonfa.

I'm finding this five months later, but this is me!!!! Haha, I'm so flattered that DnD Doge did my story :) What a crazy experience this was. I'll say one thing about my DM, not necessarily defending him, but just clarifying he was a first time DM, so I have some measure of understanding with his actions/inactions.

I noticed several problems and red flags in this story. Chiefly: a critical lack of spines among OP, the players and DM

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I have no excuses for it. The only somewhat explanation I have is that everyone else seemed to act like it was fine and okay, so I started to think I was just over-reacting. I would shut that shit down so fast if one player was treating another player like that at my table, I don't know why I tried to convince myself it was fine if it was just happening to me. But we were all just waiting for the first person to take a step forward, I guess.

I livestream a couple of games (1e AD&D and Gamma World) and I have a player who always rolled physical dice and suspiciously had insanely high die rolls. Then when I switched to an onscreen virtual die roller that both I and the audience can see, their insanely high die rolls became pretty normal. FUNNY THAT.

@davidtherwhanger6795

Жыл бұрын

I had a player once that usually rolled high. Didn't matter whose dice he rolled either. Dice rolled at least 6 inches and bouncing every time. Of course he did get really bad rolls occasionally. Most of which ended with their character in a hospital at least. Had another player who could roll any die you gave him and got the number he wanted 4 out of 5 times. Swore I was never shooting craps against him.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

The lengths some people go to in order to cheat at DnD baffle me. It feels like cheating in a solo game, all I'm doing is removing the challenge/experience of the game. But I've heard stories of weighted dice, magnetic trays, people who always just dropped their dice without rolling...

I would not be an enabling DM, I’d probably have kicked Dave after he rolled nothing but 17+ the first few times. First and second time making a series of rolls that don’t go below 17, I think I could pass off as good luck, but after that I’d demand they prove they aren’t using loaded dice or flat out lying about their rolls

@davidtherwhanger6795

Жыл бұрын

I was wondering why the DM didn't make those rolls themselves. At least some of those rolls had to be for the NPC blacksmith to fabricate the weapons he had never heard of properly. My breaking point would have been when Dave said he was giving himself a magic item next session. I was like WTF?! Oh no. Listen here you little sh!t. You want that over powered artifact? Can you multi-class as Wizard/ Artificer of at 20th level each? Spend the next 40 years, in game, researching it, gathering the REALLY HARD STUFF TO GET items you will need to built it, and then spending about a BILLION gold pieces on it? Get back with me after you do all of that and I'll see if you succeed, or just blow up the universe trying.

@Keiji555

Жыл бұрын

@@davidtherwhanger6795 Yeah. I roll physical dice, and I tend to roll either very high, or very low. My last session, I was rolling extremely high, and the DM asked about it, and I told him that he could roll the dice for me, in order to stop suspicion on me. Personally, I think that if a player is doing too well, or too bad, maybe the DM should pick up the dice, as there could be problems, such as a player doing to well, or rolling too low. However, even if I always rolled high, I ended up going down to zero first.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Agree here. I typically just ban nonconsensual PVP at my tables, but if I allowed it I would absolutely force everyone to use public rolls. In hindsight, I'm embarassed it took me so long to suspect cheating rolls (I wasn't the DM for this game, but I was OP)@@Keiji555

"Dave had some kind of job where they weren't allowed to be on a computer but COULD talk and speak out loud" caught my attention. I'm wondering if their 'job' wasn't "being incarcerated" in a jail that was loose with the rules. (Discord has a phone app) Or I guess they could be a bored, extroverted night security guard, but why keep that secret? I'm going to stick with them being locked up somewhere. :p

@TheMightyBattleSquid

Жыл бұрын

There are also jobs that monitor your computer activity to make sure you're still working, even from home. So maybe they were doing discord voice through their phone while they continued to type on the computer.

@evolution031680

Жыл бұрын

Or on parole for online crimes.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

OP here This is a better theory than anything we came up with. Who knows, maybe he made up having a job as well. It was baffling. I used to work in tech support as well and am still mildly traumatized from the job so I HATE phone calls. I certainly wasn't going to have one for a stranger for something as unimportant as them being bored.

Sweet - a Ziggy day. Yep it's gonna be a good day 'tater. Dave's a douche - thank Yoda for kitty intermissions. Yes, a long one, but it had a very satisfying ending thus making it worth it. Hopefully the DM in this will take lessons in not being railroaded by a player.

As a DM, I have a problem with a character bringing ANYTHING into the game that they didn't interact with one of my NPC's to obtain. Dude literally wants to bring in the D&D equivalent of a game genie w/o discussing it with the DM. Srsly, where do these people come from??? AND why does playing this way equate to "fun" in their tiny egocentric little minds???

Surprised that everyone was okay with that level of obvious bullying.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I think it was one of those situations where everyone just assumed everyone else was okay, because nobody spoke up (until I did)

that's funny cause I remember reading dragons are so in tune with every treasure in their horde that they notice when one has been nicked. bad with money indeed... they could polymorph as bankers and have an impenetrable horde.

@PaladinGear15

Жыл бұрын

"Dragons are bad with money!" yeahhhh, because people who are bad with money sleep on a literal pile of solid gold like scrooge mc'duck XD

@jacksparrowismydaddy

Жыл бұрын

@@PaladinGear15 I wonder if they snuggle in to it like a blanket. we all know no one can swim in it but an animal that that size might be able to burrow like a sand snake in orbeeze. you just see the wings sticking out covering the rest of the body before it just rests on the hoard and you hear a big contented sigh. lol.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

It really makes no sense in hindsight, as others have pointed out to me. A dragon who spends all their horde on gifts is not selfish. Also, it's right there in the name, hoard. Dragons hoard wealth, not go on spending sprees.

@jacksparrowismydaddy

8 ай бұрын

@@UltimateChaos233 yeah if they share their treasure it'll probably be with a mate. remember that fun mockumentary about finding a real life dragon carcas and going on a nature doc on how it survived and evolved? it suggested that it hoarded shiny things to entice potential mates.that was fun and like to use it in my campaigns.

My love to the kobold, as a player of a kobold who thinks he's a dragon myself! Though mines more party mascot with an 8 foot half orc willing to smack anything that gets near him

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Hahaha, glad to know! It's a really fun character to play. FWIW, I'm sort of the party mascot as well, lol. My party even *threatens NPCs with combat* who insist that I'm just a kobold, lol. I love it.

"I wanted to do something unique, so I played a kobold that thinks he's a dragon" So the game took place in 2000 BC?

Honestly, if it weren't for the fact the That Guy was bad at the game, I would suspect I had played with him.

It's a D move but recording the session so you can clearly show everyone's behavior can be fun.

I also allow my players to roll physical dice and work off the honor system but I usually vet people pretty well and never felt like I had a cheater. I, myself, hate digital dice so I let them choose how they want to roll.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I had ONE player once who I let roll physical dice. But I didn't notice any trends of amazing rolls, they even had some nat 1s on some important ones so I let them have it. Maybe they were BSing, but I was swayed about how they didn't have a lot of moeny but loved dnd so much they bought some really nice dice.

Not allowed on a computer? Methinks that guy was just in a ward and can't be trusted with computers judging by that behavior.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Even months later, none of us have any idea what his job was. But he was always so desperate to start up voice calls...

You got it ziggy

That Guy sounds like he'd have more fun playing video games on story mode, but in truth, I bet he plays one of those guys who cheats in PVP games.

Burning hands coming from your mouth sounds like it wojld mechanically remove the somatic components that are specifically described in the spell information

@realrealwarpet

Жыл бұрын

Rub your snoot to heat it up

@nebstein5527

Жыл бұрын

You could easily say It still requires the gestures that the magic usually does. If a player takes some flavor like that and is gunning to gotcha it as a mechanical benefit it's easily vetoed.

@AtelierGod

Жыл бұрын

He more than likely still had to perform the somatic components just differently, but it coming out of his hands or his snout likely didn’t have any gameplay differences just thematics ones.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I'm not sure it would ever have any mechanical implications unless my hands were bound or something. (I'm the OP). I still followed VSM although my first DM hand waived the requirement away for the table. I also followed weight limits. What can I say, I enjoy challenge and I don't want to give myself any sort of advantage.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

omg I love it@@realrealwarpet

Rolling a 17 and above without any modifiers is less than a 2% chance of happening. For it to happen multiple times are row... You know maybe the guy only had a dice with 17, 18 and 19 on it

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

It was an online game and he insisted on physical dice. I don't want to accuse people of cheating when I'm not 100% sure, but it was more likely than not he was just making up rolls.

Sounds to me like "Dave" had something going on with the GM that isn't clear to the story teller or there are parts missing. The thing that first got me was how there is supposed to be at least some degree of background writing required for this game. The whole point of such things is typically to deal with problem players and situations before the game starts. Somehow the GM did not realize that "Dave" had the background of a city guard in a place he had intended to not have any guards of that sort? Likewise one thing I'm sort of 'iffy' on is the story teller claims they didn't have much of a background at all as they felt they would round it out in play. There is nothing wrong with that, and I have done the same thing myself HOWEVER as this was a new group it seems a little strange the GM wouldn't have had some issues with a new player they didn't know doing that if they didn't know the player as that is one of the big tripwires used to catch "That guy" types.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

To clarify, Dave didn't write out a lengthy backstory or anything. He wrote like two sentences (well, that he shared with us. He shared some DEEPLY DISTURBING things about his backstory with the DM). This whole thing was just literally him choosing the Soldier background from the PHB, or whatever it was.

I would have worked to screw the problem player's character over. Like give him the big weapon... But put on a curse or a condition, such as he can't pull it out of the sheave unless it's something extremely major, and very specific conditions. Or set up a Sword in the Stone thing, that requires a specific aspect in order to pull it out, which would have the character fail.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

If it helps your schraudenfrude (spelling?) when he wound up dead in a ditch the DM made it pretty clear that he did not put up much of a fight and he died still clutching his tonfa, lol.

11:47 I think he rolled 17+ times not minimum.

@TheMightyBattleSquid

Жыл бұрын

that's what I thought based on what doge was saying but, looking at the text, I agree with doge. If it was 17 or more rolls, they would've said "17+ more rolls" not "more 17+ rolls."

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

OP here. It was like 3-4 rolls that were 17+ when it came to using insight on my character (DM made him do the skill check(s) a couple times). Sorry if I was unclear.@@TheMightyBattleSquid

You look like you would give me Dabloons

Tonfa are wooden not metal

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Yeah, DMG literally says to just treat them like wooden clubs mechanically.

Sorry but I would never play online with another "Player" that demanded to use physical dice instead of a digital dice roller, everyone can see. DM's that want to use their physical dice, fine, because players don't always get to see the DM's rolls anyway, and shouldn't because knowing things like Modifiers is meta knowledge players might use. Scream "Honesty!" all you want, but if most DM's have stories about fudging a dice roll here and there so a player or the entire party wouldn't die, you think a player wouldn't? Hell when you can tell that the outcome of the next roll you make is going to be the difference between your own or someone else's character that you played for years with dying,, don't tell me the temptation to say a bit higher number then you actually rolled isn't there.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I agree with you, ESPECIALLY for pvp scenarios.

Aren't tonfa usually made of wood? Because blacksmiths work in iron and steel. Making something out of wood is honestly probably a lot easier

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

The DMG (I believe) literally says just reflavor a wooden club. This was just a first time DM not feeling confident enough in saying "No" to a player until it all blew up.

I always hate the whole "he's going through stuff so we need to give him a pass" excuse. Like no call people out on their bs and confront them don't let them continue to make other people miserable. It's not ok, stop coddling anyway

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

OP here. In hindsight I think I agree with you. I try to always be in control of my emotions and I think I sometimes over-correct and wind up being too generous to someone who's wronged me. But yeah, now that I think about it, lots of people go through all kinds of shit without being absolulte douches about it.

@Luckycharm318

8 ай бұрын

@@UltimateChaos233 Sorry if that came on strong, but Ive watched so many videos from doge and other creators where people excuse bad behavior because "player is going through a rough time". Like it's totally fine to be there for that person but letting them bully and make others miserable isn't the way to go. It's enabling and usually leads the person to believe they can get away with being mean cause they are struggling. It's better to hold people accountable and help them grow as people. I struggle with ADHD and I know that at times I am not a good player but I've asked my friends and DM to call me out when I'm being 'too much' (spotlight hogging, being way too loud, interrupting, side talk, etc) it's helped me be a better player and I'm more conscious of my own faults and can try to regulate them better. I'm not perfect but am trying.

Sorry, had to give up at 4:30. Dave here is a bad player and should be at no ones table. But when a player insists that their backstory breaks the setting, nope- sounds like no session zero, no reading of the backstory, so grossly incompetent GM. Giving himself a magic item, much less something like this? If you have a Dave, as a GM you owe it to everyone at the table to boot them and if that involves them falling down, so be it. If you have pro-Dave GM, walk. Don't say anything, just stand up in the middle of the game and leave.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Hey, OP here! I don't disagree, but this was the DM's first time DMing and he has learned from the experience, so I've forgiven him. But yeah, at my tables I would shut this shit down so fast. I don't know why I waited so long to make an issue of it as a player when it was happening to me. I was livid the whole time but didn't feel like I could say anything if my character didn't have the knowledge. Thankfully my apparently two brain cells finally collided and I realized I could say something about it out of character, lol.

Heyooo

Why do we have Jaba the Kitty at the start of the video?

All this "they" shit is getting on my nerves. It's very confusing, specially for non native speakers.

@robinmohamedally7587

Жыл бұрын

Right? Most of the time, the people being "theyed" are the bad guys in these stories. It's, like, "he's an asshole, who GIVES a shit about respecting his preferred pronouns"?

@BlueTressym

Жыл бұрын

@@robinmohamedally7587 respecting pronouns is about you being a decent person, not based on whether or not they are.

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

Apologies! Would it have been better to say Dave instead of they, for non native speakers?

I'm gonna have to say it: OP is lying. Not sure if they made up the entire story or just edited things a lot, but this didn't happen the way they're saying

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

OP here! Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? In the interest of full disclosure, his name was not really Dave. But I know several assholes named Dave irl, so figured it was as good a name as any to give him for this story.

4:10 why didn’t they leave? Anything that happens after this is the OPs fault for staying

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

I don't really have an excuse. Only a sort of explanation is that I'm normally a forever DM and had spent weeks looking for a campaign and didn't want to leave it. I eventually had a reality check, though.

why would it be a challange for a smith to make a tonfa? its a tick with a handle out the side ffs. what kind of idiocy is this?

@UltimateChaos233

8 ай бұрын

OP here. Yeah man, I don't know. I was so pissed though that it took like 3 hours to do all of this shit with the stupid tonfa.