Hi mate, GREAT video I will definitely give it a shout-out on my news show on Sunday 😉👌✌️

@DrKnowitallKnows

3 жыл бұрын

Lars, love you, man! You're an inspiration for sure

@BestInTESLA

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrKnowitallKnows yeah for sure would be fun making something together. And I did just give you a shout out in my latest for this great video 😉👍

@DrKnowitallKnows

3 жыл бұрын

@@BestInTESLA Nice... or should I say, be nice!! :). You're a huge futurist, and I love AI, and we both love Tesla. There has to be something in there for us! Hit me up at drknowitallknows at gmail and we can chat about it. Thanks for the shout out. Watching your news episode as soon as I get done with this comment!

@bruns.like.spoons9251

3 жыл бұрын

I can confirm that A) Lars did give the shout out because he brought me here and B) Lars rocks.

@presidentelecta-10warthog44

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrKnowitallKnows wear 3 face diapers in every video granny killer, it's science!

One revolutionary advancement that came out of World War II was the "heavy presses" for forgings and extrusions. When the allies found out the Germans were producing large lightweight forgings for their airplanes (making them stronger and lighter), a cold-war era program was begun to catch up. The Mesta company ended up producing presses of up to 50,000 tons transforming the design and construction of many military and industrial products. BTW, forging is doing metal forming when the metal is hot and soft to realign its "grain" properties, greatly strengthening it.

@CarloHerrmann

3 жыл бұрын

You sound like you know what is going on!! Thanks.

@carholic-sz3qv

3 жыл бұрын

Yes eventuell car companies uses very high strength and light heat formed steel to reinforce their car shelfs, some even uses carbon fiber and magnesium to significantly reduce the car weight.

@ronblack7870

3 жыл бұрын

that press is owned by alcoa in cleveland. it is used to make the falcon9 grid fins from titanium among other things.it was rebuilt a while ago at a cost of 100 million. however forging can't do what these casting are. they are far too complicated for forging . the molds have side action run by massive cylinders that run 90 degrees to the motion of the machine platens. if you look in the wheel well of the car you can see all the ribs formed by the side action of the dies.

@Sekir80

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, somebody who knows what he is talking about! Thanks!

@PeterBirett

3 жыл бұрын

@@carholic-sz3qv BMW uses carbon fiber for the i3 but it is baken and that needs time. That's the reason why there is none follow up design of the i3.

The 6000 ton rating is the pressure required to hold the pieces of the mold together. These machines inject material into the mold at 1000s of psi and the mold has a large surface area therefore a massive amount of force is required to hold the mold together during the injection process.

@DrDave327

3 жыл бұрын

The Dr describes the sequence: inject first, then press the mold together. It’s likely more like plastic injection molding, where the mold parts are united, forced together with extreme force, and the hot liquid material is injected at high pressure.

@andreasklossek9252

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrDave327 It is, pressed together before injecting, but you know it better i see :)

@jonbong98

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrDave327 correct

@martindurtschi3292

3 жыл бұрын

Dr.- No-idea is just the pseudonym. The real name must be either Dr. Dunning or Dr. Kruger.

@oliverwunsch4412

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrDave327 The Dr. should have informed himself..... He is talking crap. It's an injection molding machine using molten Aluminium and a Ram and not an Extruder with a hydraulic ram at the screw like plastic injection machines use.. The mold on both is closed and pressed together with a force that is the equivalent of XXX Tonns. (the mold is sprayed with an bio-oil for mold release, the mold is evacuated by vacuum pumps, the mold will be filled from the bottom to the top and this takes less than a second. The whole cycle time would be IMHO less than 90 seconds)

Forging is pressuring a solidified metal into a new shape, not heating it up. It creates a stronger metal by aligning the metal crystals and changing their shape. So this process creates the shape of the product and then applies pressure at a point before full cooling to make it stronger.

@omnicurious2949

3 жыл бұрын

There's cold forging and hot forging...

@mrsith1402

3 жыл бұрын

@@omnicurious2949 yes : it's sqeezing or hammering metal whether hot or cold, just not when it is liquid for obvious reasons

@danielstapler4315

3 жыл бұрын

19:12 They say otherwise

@mrsith1402

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielstapler4315 The video describes forging incorrectly; I am correcting the mistake.

@lachywocky

3 жыл бұрын

this is correct

The clips are very interesting but unfortunately Dr. Know-It-All does not seem to have completed his coursework on forging or metallurgy. 😄

@peglor

3 жыл бұрын

He's Dunning Krugered himself embarrassingly hard on this one.

@freeman3320

3 жыл бұрын

You're being exceeding tough on this guy. Lighten up. Who do you think he is? Elon Musk ??

@selwynjames9592

3 жыл бұрын

I second that. He actually doesn't know it all after all... He shouldn't be guessing. Still very interesting, if a little misleading though. And no, this isn't exceedingly tough. He is presenting what he claims to be the facts and they aren't. If he doesn't know something he should say so, not guess.

@tonywilson4713

3 жыл бұрын

As an engineer who has worked in plastic injection molding he's been badly informed or simply hasn't done his homework. But then I see that so much in the world right now its almost a full time job correcting stuff. I wouldn't say he's Dunning-Kruegered himself so much as he simply should have done a better job. I gave him a pretty lengthy reply in his pinned comment at the top. I notice he gave a very hollo reply to one person he called a "futurist." I have a very short fuse with so called "futurists" having seen some of them bullshit at levels of ignorance so high they are on a par with flat earthers. I did my degree in aerospace but mainly work in automation and robotics. Some (if not most) of the stuff I see and hear about what and when we will be doing things in space is nothing short of idiotic hype and utter bullshit. This guys is more in the line of enthusiasm off track than any deliberate bullshit, but clearly his tag of "Knows it all" needs updating and or he needs someone to technically review his work ahead of time.

GM: We need 10 of those Gigapreses! IDRA: Please take a number and queue up.

Definitely 8 in Berlin. It is on the plans.

@fjalics

3 жыл бұрын

Needless to say, Austin will get in on the fun, and I don't know if they are done getting them at Freemont yet.

Completely agree. Idra is a great company kicking ass in the development of EVs.

Heating and cooling is annealing, compressing material is forging.

@gedw99

3 жыл бұрын

Thankyou !! Mr know it all was driving me nuts with his bullshit definition of casting and forging . Might want to rename your channel dude

@Milan22229

3 жыл бұрын

well your are not compressing the mass/Volume will not change. Or at least not that it makes that much of a difference

@bryandepaepe5984

3 жыл бұрын

@@Milan22229 The crystalline structure of the grains at the microscopic level of the metal gets compressed making it harder.

@Milan22229

3 жыл бұрын

@@bryandepaepe5984 it won't get an harder by forging. It will if you cool it so that the cristals build Martins it but that you is only heat treating. When you forge and cool the part slowly it might get even softer. The grains are Re build but even that is more because of heat treating and less because of the forging

@bryandepaepe5984

3 жыл бұрын

@@Milan22229 So your saying the college I went to for mechanical engineering was wrong? You have never heard how much stronger a dropped forged crankshaft is then a machined billet one or why they can't be cast? The grain structure is altered in the different production methods. Annealing is heating and cooling to relieve stress and increase overall strength. Heat treating hardens metal by heating and quickly oil quenching a part. Forging is the process of hammering into shape or modern drop forge machines uses a die for the shape making.

The fact that they refer to it as 'Giga-press' means the idea was pushed by Tesla. Tesla started the 'Giga' trend. I think in the industry they generally refer to it as die casting machines.

@fmfbrestel

3 жыл бұрын

No it doesn't mean that. When a single company buys out your entire production capacity of a brand new product, it's not unreasonable for the product name to be a homage. There is no reason to assume motive by Tesla.

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, more than just a coincidence

i've worked in manufacturing almost 40 years now this stuff is fascinating. thanks for the vid

Die casting is similar to injection molding. Injection molding uses melted plastic, while die casting uses molten metal. Both processes involve pressure-injecting a liquid into a shaped cavity in the mold or die. (The mold/die has previously been coated with a release agent so the part doesn't stick). The liquid hardens, the mold/die is cracked (opened) and the solidified part is removed and cooled. The mold/die is cleaned and the process repeats.

@johnterry8890

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Tom. Great description. Also, to clarify, when speaking of the tonnage, we are talking about the force tons of holding the press closed during the high pressure injection of plastic or aluminum/magnesium as Tom describes. As info, with plastic, the pressure within the dies can reach 40,000 psi for some thin wall molding so allot of pressure in those dies.

Watched it three times to make sense of it, Thanks

Great video! Amazing technology, to achieve high speed part production with such large pieces. Wow.

Off the top of my head, the negatives would likely be: 1) Difficulty making timely updates to the original die. 2) No spare parts if everything is attached to everything else, making it impossible to fix a car in an accident. 3) Creates a huge entry barrier to other startup companies wishing to throw their hat into the e-car arena.

@SilentSalad

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully accidents will become very rare.

19:35 FORGING = shaping of metal using localized compressive forces. The blows are delivered with a hammer or a die. Improves preferential GRAIN DIRECTION in the metal part

@Libertylute

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Pablo! Dr. Know-It-All got it completely wrong. Forging can be done without any heating.

Very fascinating! 💡👌🏼

I saw your comment on "Best in Tesla" channel and came over to check out this video. Nice work!

@PeterBirett

3 жыл бұрын

I got directed by YT-algorithm ;-)

@csrow00

3 жыл бұрын

❤️❤️

@csrow00

3 жыл бұрын

❤️❤️

@csrow00

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeterBirett the same

@csrow00

3 жыл бұрын

❤️❤️❤️

Thank you professor.

The CyberTruck will definitely need some sort of a strong frame under that exoskeleton. The Tri-motor with model is supposed to be rated to tow 14,000 lbs. So the whole structure will need to be able to endure those stresses, plus a safety margin. Forging is not just heating and cooling, it is heating and pressure to result in a desired shape/material characteristics. I think you're right. Tesla probably has all of those orders for it's upcoming giga-factories. A video analysis showed the cycle time for the Fremont press was 184 seconds. Without considering downtime, that is 170K units a year. So for 1,000,000 units a year, you can figure out how many presses you'll need with both the rear and front castings made.

@andrasbiro3007

3 жыл бұрын

The cycle time will likely improve a lot. I think there will be 8 machines in Berlin, which should be enough for 1M cars with front and rear castings, assuming the cycle time can be halved (should be possible, 3 minutes is a very long time).

Great info!

I'VE ordered the cyber truck tri motor fsd & have lots of solar to charge it.i can't wait!!

For all those that don't understand the high pressure die casting process, here is a simple vid. The Idra machines are obviously much larger and more complex but the basic process holds. kzread.info/dash/bejne/m4etpNWdes63pZs.html One thing to consider is that you have to be able to get the part out of the die. Casting large complex parts with many undercuts means the dies can be extremely involved often utilizing sliding side cores which all have to be retracted before the part can be taken out of the die. What Tesla have achieved here is quite something.

True that you are to close to camera. Great quality Video again thanks.

I was waiting for Solving The Money Problem to do a video on this but I like this better you made it long and this machine is so interesting!

@michelangelobuonarroti916

3 жыл бұрын

If you prefer to hear a video of a technology with a lot of bleeped out profanity, STMP is the place. If not, the video here was good.

The Gigapresses' are only used for the rear casting so far. Elon has said they want it used on the front casting also. This will eliminate a total of 600 robots from the assembly lines and quicken the manufacturing process. One Gigapress cost less than 300 assembly robots and saves time.

Since the giga press only works (so far) with a special alloy developed by Tesla it doesn’t make sense that IDRA initiated the GIga project themselves as implied. Tesla must have come to them with a requirement and then worked with them jointly to make it happen

In injection moulding the tonnage is the maximum clamping force of the mold when it is "locked over" shut. 6000 tonnes of lock is insane!

The three in Shanghai are from Idra’s parent company LK Technology. DCC 6000. Not sure about Fremont but there is one installed in Berlin and one in Austin.

@paulsladen

3 жыл бұрын

Idra OL 6100 CS: 2 in Fremont, 2 in Berlin, 1 in Texas. LK DCC 6000: 3 in Shanghai, 1 in South Korea (not Tesla). Spare foundations: 6 in Fremont, 2 in Texas. So far…

Great video. The tech stuff was explained in a great way, making it understandable for me anyway. Thanks. 🇩🇰🙋🏻‍♂️👍🏻👩🏻‍🚀🇺🇸

I used to put together giant machinery like this fun hard a stressful work.

I found this to be very interesting and very cool. Thanks for the research and sharing. Many years ago, I had performed contract work at an aluminum alloy suspension die cast company (Contech, now Michigan Die Cast I guess). As I recall there were about 30, 2 meter-square cast machines. The suspension parts, such as upper-lower A-arms, rack-and-pinion housings, etc., were x-rayed for quality checks (inclusions/occlusions). I recall with certainty machines were not the size of a house! Maybe 20’ x 40’ (7m x 15m-ish) - best as I can recall .... after all, I was validating the control systems experienced no “Y2K” issues (AllenBradley PLC-5s).

very smart casting to forged quality.

Anything coming along that will improve the outer panel fit? Will these affect them in any way?

nice to see a more technical and leas fluffy yt video on tesla /idra engineering

@fu3g

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Most u tubers have a sickness of being the most annoying sounding people I’ve ever heard.

@fu3g

3 жыл бұрын

WHAts up guys. Back at with another video. Don’t forget to subscribe and Smash that like Button and hit that bell and join my patreon. I’ll put the link in the description down below and don’t forget to leave it in the comments down below. Now in my last video...

Wow had no idea Italy had such advanced metal forming technology. Bravo

I want to see this thing working!

If I remember correctly each die saves the need for approx 300 robot welders, assemblers, and human laborers. Three dies and that’s a lot of overhead saved.

@tonywilson4713

3 жыл бұрын

Go back through Sandy Munro's videos. He does a really good (but technical) explanation on it.

Hail Idra!

Remember, it only worked after Tesla designed a completely new aluminium alloy in order fir these presses to creat a perfect casting at these high speeds!

If you take a 13.5 inch cube of molten metal this machine injects it in a 10th of a second, that's how fast it's working. It would be nice if IDRA made a video showing how it worked, where the metal went in how the finished piece is taken out. I feel like a space alien looking at a washing machine with no idea what all the hoses do or what the round door is for.

@dmpease01

3 жыл бұрын

There's a drone video of one of the 2 Fremont Giga Presses opening the sides, the main dies retracting, a robot going in and picking up the casting, removing it, then 2 robots each on the top of a die half going in and spraying the casting surfaces. The video is at kzread.info/dash/bejne/dKujy6h8XavdgKg.html , start watching at 5:10.

@Martin-se3ij

3 жыл бұрын

@@dmpease01 Thanks for that.

@phantommedia9964

3 жыл бұрын

@@dmpease01 Dang that's cool, thanks!

@peglor

3 жыл бұрын

@@dmpease01 More interesting content in the minute or so showing the press working than the whole video here. Mostly because we get to see the press in action - I wonder whether they deliberately adjusted the video speed without saying when they changed it back so the cycle time for the press still can't be determined. It looks to be most of a minute at the very least anyway, which is way more believable than the 'few seconds' claimed here. Most of that time incidentally is spent cooling the mould so the metal will solidify, not pumping the metal into the mould, which all happens at high speed at the start of the process. This means that the claim that the flow is laminar is highly spurious as a quick back of envelope calculation puts the Reynolds number value north of 10 000 at a low filling speed of 10 m/s (Internal flows begin transition from laminar to turbulent flow at Reynolds numbers around 2000 unless extreme measures in both flow steadiness and lack of flow disturbance are taken - and any mould with useful geometry can't meet either of those requirements). Not having splashing or jetting in the flow trapping air bubbles which then become voids in the casting is a critical part of mould design and has almost nothing to do with laminar or turbulent flow.

Amazing 😻

forged in this case is similar to forged wheels Simi solid aluminum is pressed into a shape. In the case of wheels they then mill to produce fine tolerance. Apparently, the press gives them an end product not needing further milling.

Wondering how this cast frame would compare in maintenance costs after being bent/distorted in a collision?

@19:40, ehh, no. Heating and cooling down is heat treating/quenching/aging. Forging involves grain flow and grain distortion to break up and homogenize the as-cast (brittle) structure.

Cool, I just placed an order for a 6000-ton giga press to make diecast 1:18 scale Tesla models.

I remember a story when Elon was sitting with (Franz?) in a resto getting the idea to apply the "matchbox" tech of die-cast to a whole car? Guess it was in one of the Elon interviews. I am sure after that Tesla looked into the market, addressed IDRA as the best in class, and discussed this idea. Then the development of the right alloy and patent application (07/2019 for a full-car) Attention, IDRA was mentioning die-casting only of front and rear, the center can easily be done by converntional stamping, as this structure is quite simple!

Making the entire skateboard structure for an EV in 3 pieces is a huge, huge cost saving over bend and welded steel pieces.

@donjones4719

3 жыл бұрын

The amount of manufacturing steps directly and *indirectly* eliminated is truly hard to comprehend. Also, Tesla has shrunk several systems down to one Octovalve, and I'm sure is still working on consolidating wiring to main lines instead of point-to-point. When that's all put together, the cost of producing a Tesla will be staggeringly low.

I’m from UK and your title music reminds me of UK show The Antique Roadshow 😁

He didn’t actually mention a centre casting. By omission he implied that the centre section was not cast

Worth mentioning, Tesla with SpaceX developed a special aluminum alloy that can be used in the Giga Press casting process. It must have high material strength eliminated post process heat treatment which would've cause all kinds of dimensional yield issues. e.g. Low grade 3000 alum vs 6000 ht treatable are totally different animals.

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

I thought SpaceX use stainless steel

@kbmblizz1940

3 жыл бұрын

@@henryD9363 You need to raise your bar. The exoskeleton is SS, but there must be an internal structure, which will be SpaceX invented AL-alloy cast with Idra Gigarpess. No $$$ post process painting on tin foil sheet mtl. NEVER rust. F150 is window dressing, no tougher than a Corolla.

Seems like the August 20, 2020 date of the 1st working aluminum casting was important - it allowed Tesla to make several related announcements on battery day

I wonder how many castings can be made before the machine needs to come off line for maintenance? Can the same machine make all three casting and only needs to be configured? If that's the case, you would need four machines, the fourth being a standby to come one when the primary comes off line?

This is great. Casting is perfect for high volume parts. I had a job as a die caster, it was like hell on Earth. The Giga Press is at another level, same process.

@peglor

3 жыл бұрын

Castings are great until your car has a minor bump and you discover that a slight bend in the casting will write the car off. I hope I'm wrong about this, but nothing so far in Tesla's execrable customer service and terrible attitude towards anyone working on cars they bought themselves suggests this won't be the case. Castings often can't be repaired because even though it has a lower melting point and is softer, welding aluminium is very difficult because it's far more thermally conductive than steel, so getting one point of the casting hot enough to melt where it needs to be welded will run a very high risk of the rest of that heat igniting anything flammable that same casting touches - namely the rest of the car. Most castings have very good strength to weight and phenomenal strength to cost properties, but poor toughness and high rates of work hardening (Which again aluminium in general is much worse for than steel), which means that there's a good chance a bent part will either snap or crack in a minor impact or will snap instead of bending back, unlike pressed steel car parts. This building method will will almost certainly be much cheaper for Tesla, but they're keeping all the savings as profits, while passing a maintenance time-bomb on to their consumers. It wasn't a big deal when Tesla buyers were buying them as second or third cars, but those buying them as their only car are already being hammered by this when they discover that simple repairs and shortages of parts take their cars off the road for weeks to months.

@bobchemist

3 жыл бұрын

@@peglor Great point. You really can't weld an aluminum structural casting. They are also very rigid and will resist bending, but will break instead. It should be strong enough to resist minor accidents. Replacing the entire frame would be very expensive.

@peglor

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobchemist A quick example for how this construction method could cost customers a fortune - a friend of mine was rear ended at a junction by someone reading a text message. The car looked okay, but on opening the trunk there was enough bending in the floor that the spare tire couldn't be taken out of the wheel well. She dropped it in to the dealership, they replaced the trunk floor pressing and crash bar (Not sure if the fender was replaced as it popped back to shape straight after the accident. Doing this with the rear quarter or the entire rear of the chassis, as is the case with a Model Y, or the entire rear of the chassis, as will be the case with the newer models, would be 10's of thousands and a long, long wait, rather than 1-2 thousand and a week in the shop (Or the option to do it at home of you have the skills and space, because, unlike Tesla, other car companies are happy to sell their parts to anyone who asks for them). A likely end to this is the car becoming an insurance write-off, costing more than the car is worth to repair and creating more waste, which is an environmental cost that an electric car (Which already has a higher environmental cost to make) can't offset unless it does enough miles.

For dr know it all you don’t know much. Forging is the mechanical densificarion of the grain structure. In a forge, you bring an initially cold material up to semi solid state using heat, and then mechanically pound it to density the structure. In this case, the aluminum comes in liquid hot into the near net shape, is allowed to cool quickly to semisolid where more pressure is applied.

What do you mean my giga press is funny? The way it presses? Funny how? Does it amuse you?

Hail IDRA

Cool Warbird model bro.

As an added bonus, Tesla has a custom alloy. And no, Giga was not originated by Tesla but is a wave to the other companies behind them. Gotta love that the company (Elon) has a sense of humor while doing serious business.

That is one hell of a big high-pressure die casting machine. The technology is not new but the size sure the hell is.

GREAT FOOTAGE... I think Sandy Munro would be able to answer the deep questions as he has always been a supporter of this type of manufacturing.. I would interview him..

Please look up metal forging. There is no furnace underneath this press, it is simply pressing the still semi liquid metal under extreme pressure into its final form. Effectively forging it, so no casting porosity and better properties. They may still after removal from the press put the final casting through heat treatments to relieve any stress if needed.

hail idra

This guy is a real know-it-all!

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

Just ask him

Bravo, the Italians are masters at whatever craft they take on.

You cannot blame IDRA for trying to grab all the glory they can so that their company can continue to grow as fast as possible. However, I would bet that Tesla had an agreement with IDRA that they get ALL of their orders for new presses filled first -- before IDRA can fill orders from other companies. Also, Tesla will probably not let other companies use their custom designed aluminum alloy -- unless they are paid appropriately.

@MolloRelax

2 жыл бұрын

Tesla can sure afford the price of patents to keep that alloy recipe secret for as long as the law grants it .

So, a Tesla in a minor incident, damaging the die-cast chassis, will be a total lost. Insurance costs will sky-rocket.

Wouldn't be possible without the special aluminum chemistry from Tesla/Spacex.

@jonbong98

3 жыл бұрын

No

What is the stack price of IDRA !

How long will the molds last? How much time to remove casting waste?

@michelangelobuonarroti916

3 жыл бұрын

Good questions. This is new technology, so likely to improve considerably in the next few years.

I thought you knew it all you should watch more of the videos to learn it's not a press it's a casting machine it's been referred to even by Elon as a "giga casting machine" the press machine is on the South end of the Austin Factory and that's used to take roll aluminum cut and press the various body shapes as well as the skins of the body the casting machine is on the North End

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

Seems Mr know It All is over his head in the subject. I think he makes stuff up, to be polite about what he says

Great stuff. Much appreciated! Tesla Stock- TO THE MOON!

Doctor, is their a Sprite bottle in the center of your plant? Because it looks like there is.

The secret sauce as it were is in the aluminium alloy which cools without cracking or warping. This is part of the reason that other OEMs haven't adopted this technology... At this scale.

@Mrbfgray

3 жыл бұрын

I believe it has more to do with eliminating the need for heat treating after the part is formed that Tesla made a breakthrough, heat treating tends to distort the part but other alloys require it for the desired properties.

@williampelzer1460

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mrbfgray Thanks, couldn't remember the reason exactly but yes that's it. 😊

@donjones4719

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, and afaik Tesla created the magic metallurgy and "owns" the alloy. From what I can see another company wanting a Gigapress will have to develop their own alloy, which means these are a Tesla exclusive for a while - even if another OEM gets smart and bold enough to want one.

@Mrbfgray

3 жыл бұрын

@@donjones4719 I've always wondered if others can't duplicate the same or equivalent alloy. What protection does Tesla have from that? Patent I assume but then the precise chemistry is available to all, at least as a starting point, and if the mfg is in China they will simply use the formula if they choose.

@danahebdon6810

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mrbfgray - There are ways of keeping the precise chemistry of the alloy as a "trade secret" and having the "security of a patent". But, we all know that having a patent on something doesn't mean as much today, as it used to.

Great video! Another thing I was clueless on and now know some basics thanks to TSLA and DR Know it All! Once again. Way over wall St analysts’ heads. TSLA to $5000!

Well, background ominous music is indeed appropriate for a company named IDRA 🤣

Definitely will use LPF - IDRA is almost certainly developing this in consultation with Tesla. Also, Tesla can then have LPF and LFP tech in their future robots... I mean, cars.

I would love to see a discussion sometime comparing pros and cons of casting vs. 3D printing. Of course something like that already exists somewhere, but I'd be fascinated to see it in the context of applications like Tesla.

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

@JCKR2 It would take about 75 years to 3D print that chassis. And it wouldn't be as strong and tough as die casting.

@michelangelobuonarroti916

3 жыл бұрын

3D printing is great for prototypes, R&D and specialty parts. For scale manufacturing, it would be WAY too slow.

@paulsladen

3 жыл бұрын

10 days to 3D-print a chassis. 0.1 seconds to *die-cast* a chassis. (It's the difference between cutting cookies out by hand, and using a shaped cookie-cutter).

@TheMagicJIZZ

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulsladen what if it was a massive machine and it printed molten steel powder? It one whole cybertruck without the doors of course but an assembly cell not line?

@paulsladen

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheMagicJIZZ Traditional assembly processe cycle/takt time increases with size. Die-cast cycle/takt time stays flat (remaining c. 1/10th of a second)-hence the bigger the object (ie. Cybertruck chassis) the more significant the difference becomes. It's why plastic widgets, and bottle tops, and Lego bricks are die-cast.

about a year ago in an interview elon says the casting idea came about from a die cast toy car . they thought how far can we take this? can we actually make a car this way. ? so i'm not convinced the idea came from IDRA. also i thought tesla has a patent on making these castings for cars. yet Idra is promoting it like it's for any car manufacturer? i sure hope tesla doesn't give away that patent . another critical thing is the aluminum formulation which was developed by tesla along with the spacex materials scientists. the castings don't need heat treating after molding. that is incredible . other cast aluminum parts need heat treating for strength . they warp when that happens.

6000T is the clamping pressure of the machine. If you want a big part you have to clamp a bigger mold with more area to clamp shut.

Ok doc. Yes casting goes back before the seventies as I was a little shaver 66 years ago and had sandbox cast cars. It was decades later that I worked at GM here in Rochester as a tool maker building carberators for vehicles with alum and zink.

So if the model y is using these front middle and rear castings does anyone know how they are connecting these three pieces? Are they robot welded?

Next: Build our own Tesla kit , assembly for half the price

Tesla: we're gonna need a new name for the Truck press...

Hello from Tangier

Are wheels not currently die cast already?

Forged parts get used on things like aircraft struts and suspension support pieces in cars. There's probably some such parts Tesla could utilize on the Semi and Cybertruck.

Question, if ever there is a issue with that structural battery, would it be very hard to change it ??

@danielstapler4315

3 жыл бұрын

Currently to fix a battery pack the approach is to take the top off the pack, identify the failed (parasitic) cell and de-activate it. If you have 7000 cells in a pack and you get rid the contribution from one or two cells it isn't a big loss to the capacity. I think there will be a top to the middle section casting that can be removed because basically there has to be a top because how else would you get the cells into it. Is the mid section bolted or welded to the other castings? Would you need to remove the seats to get to the battery pack? If it is bolted, then that would make things easier. Even if you weld the nuts onto the bolts.

@henryD9363

3 жыл бұрын

Mr know It All said they put epoxy in the battery tray. So I'm wondering how the coolant fluid can keep the battery cells cool.

I worked with mold machines over 35 years

What does the Tardis do at 22:50?

Regarding the Cybertruck: The rear, middle and front pieces of the undercarriage part of the vehicle would ultimately be made by giga casting(s). The exoskeleton is made by bent stainless steel. So to answer your question, both techniques are being used to build a CT. At least this is what would make sense.

@michelangelobuonarroti916

3 жыл бұрын

Right. Bent stainless will not be used for to make the chassis, as suggested here.

I may be incorrect, but I believe that Tesla will be using the 8,000 ton press for the Cybertruck.

@HenryLoenwind

3 жыл бұрын

IDRA said in another video that they already have order for the bigger one for casting parts "for trucks". So it's a guess between semi and cyber, with the latter making more sense.

I think the centre battery structure is such a simple shape, it is not necessary to cast. Would be totally overkill to cast the centre battery piece.

@fredbloggs5902

3 жыл бұрын

It’s cheaper and quicker, and with a suitable molded structure will be stronger and stiffer while also being lighter and using less material.

@wolfgangschmidt9873

3 жыл бұрын

@@fredbloggs5902 Structural battery means, the cells itself are forming the structure. You don't need another casted structure. The room between the cells is filled with some glue and therefore a rocksolid part is formed. You only have to close it with 2 thin sheets of steel from down and above.

@fredbloggs5902

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfgangschmidt9873 That’s only partly true, by having struts that run the entire length of the floor pan a much stronger and stiffer structure is produced for a given weight.

@dmpease01

3 жыл бұрын

Graham, I agree. The Idra gentlemen mentioned the battery module as one of 3 for the car, but no reference to casting it.

@grahambrown42

3 жыл бұрын

@@wolfgangschmidt9873 Exactly. Casting brings advantages for complicated shapes, replacing many stamped parts and welding robots.

That kind of press already exist since 2009-2010. We have been making Tesla part since at least 2014. Tesla bought our patent for high speed thermo forming and we were making part for them. But those press seem much cooler though.

It needs rapid cooling otherwise you get large grains growing which results in lower tensile strength - that would be THE challenge in parts that size. The rest is well understood in casting including your laminar flow argument which for some reason you are transfixed by.

The “6000 Tons”, refers to the maximum clamping force that the Gigapress will be able to apply to the die or mold that is mounted between those two red platens. That massive force is needed because of the fast initial speed of injecting the molten aluminum, along with the large part geometry and ultimately its surface area. If there is not enough clamping force keeping the die closed, the inertial forces acting on the large surface area would blow the die open and create a lot of perimeter waste around the part, known as flash.

You seem like the kind of man I would want as a father. I never had a father. Interesting videos, I love Elon, Tesla, and all his companies and efforts. Fascinating, and I wonder how I would fare as an engineer of such things.

Die casting is pretty old school, since Briggs and Stratton has been producing die cast aluminum engines since 1952. Much smaller scale of course.

Hard to understand much of what the reps say with strong accented english dealing with particular parts or actions that are intrinsic to their industry. Glad you were able to simplify the message in understandable terms and speech.

I'm not sure that people understand how big the impact is of the 6000-ton (pressure, not weight) model. The cost of any item that is built on the assembly line is determined mostly by the amount of actions you have to undertake to build it. Reducing the assembly line by 20% might actually translate into a 20% cost-down on production. That's absolutely frigging massive, even when you don't count the cost of the stations on the line. Amazing advances in this field, tbh. I thought this technology was sort of finalized, but I was obviously very wrong.