At 6:28 (tau minutes), the score spells out the first four decimal digits of pi.

@robertelessar

4 жыл бұрын

THAT...is beautiful

@felixroux

4 жыл бұрын

The first four decimal digits are 3141. The first four decimal *places* are 1415.

@muditbelwal3960

4 жыл бұрын

@@felixroux The whole no. is 3.1415 and so on, the score is the first four decimal digits i.e 1415. Get it?

@jhonegbret4958

4 жыл бұрын

@@muditbelwal3960 also, they were pointing out that the correct term is decimal places. "decimal digits" is another way of simply saying digits, so "the first four decimal digits of pi" are 3141. meanwhile, decimal places (also informally called decimals) specifically refer to the digits to the right of the decimal point, so "the first four decimal places of pi" are 1415.

@electricengine8407

4 жыл бұрын

Its not tau minutes, tau minutes would be 6 mins and around 14 seconds

I'm confident we can all adopt tau as quickly as the US adopts the metric system.

@barkspawn

9 жыл бұрын

Per Wagenius and a dozenal (base12) number system

@EmptyBodies

9 жыл бұрын

Barkspawn Isn't that just bi-decimal?

@JivanPal

9 жыл бұрын

Empty Bodies It's "duodecimal", but the argument against using that terminology is it implies base 10 is the reference point. Saying "dozenal" implies the dozen (12) is the reference point, which makes sense given the proposition in the first place.

@EmptyBodies

9 жыл бұрын

Doge Woof Yep! Most commonly used in the hue identification of colours, known as the "hex" value!

@Cheesemongle

9 жыл бұрын

MikeM8891 4:41 score.

i love how they just switch to the base 12 system at the end because both Steve and Matt were like "Yeah, that's better"

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

But it leaves something to be desired. 10 is divided by 2 and 5, while 12 is divided by 4 and 3, 4 being 2 squared. So while it is better in nearly every way thanks to the fact it has more factors, it still equally leaves something to be desired in the amount of different prime numbers it has. So instead of 2 and 5 or 2, 2, and 3, I say we have a system of base 2, 3, and 5, or base 30. It may be difficult to memorize, but it will otherwise be better than base 10 and 12 in pretty much every way. And if you wanted a better base numbering system, base 210 would do the trick. Alas, the feeble human mind holds us back from reaching such a system. Even if we somehow created 210 unique symbols, there is no way you could memorize all of them, so 30 is the best we can do.

@cuitaro

8 ай бұрын

​@@aguyontheinternet8436The Babylonians had base 60 which is twice 30 so yea that's been done before

@jjnevis

Ай бұрын

Surely the base of the numbering system is arbitrary, any will do.

@SuperM789

Ай бұрын

but the very intelligent people at reddit told me that the imperial system is bad because america stinky!!!!

@AlphaFX-kv4ud

Ай бұрын

Technically the babylonians had base sixty, but not really, they only really had two symbols that they combined a bunch​@cuitaro

"If you want a unit to measure things, the unit shouldn't be the whole thing" -- Matt Parker

@AnaseSkyrider

3 жыл бұрын

Considering the unit circle is defined as reaching its full radius at 1, why wouldn't you use another multiple-of-1 as the unit for angles too? You went all the way around at Tau, you go half way around at (1/2)Tau.

@aurelia8028

3 жыл бұрын

It's a Parker unit :P

@CarbonRollerCaco

2 жыл бұрын

Even worse is when he says "Tau gets you nowhere. Pi gets you somewhere." as if the end being different from the start is all that should matter on a journey. Like, _a circle is a round trip. In every sense._

@hpsmash77

2 жыл бұрын

percentages : I am going to end this man's whole career

@rustycherkas8229

2 жыл бұрын

Mathematician Matt Parker objects to "normalising" data... Hmmm...

Imagine, the days before youtube, 780,000 people sitting in this room, to listen to these two men talk about numbers

@qwaccc

5 жыл бұрын

Man those were the days...

@leo17921

5 жыл бұрын

now over a million

@xxportalxx.

5 жыл бұрын

@@leo17921 it would have been a freaking stadium!

@whywatchme2214

4 жыл бұрын

xXPORTALXx an empty million seater stadium with just the odd guy popping in now and again while the kettle boils..

@Htown-yy3yq

4 жыл бұрын

1.2 million

is this the maths version of a rap battle?

@Chrismbo

8 жыл бұрын

+Bo Byrd Add a beautiful piece of classical symphony beat they could get a record deal!

@Kaepsele337

8 жыл бұрын

+Gianluca Tartaro How?

@frankharr9466

8 жыл бұрын

+Bo Byrd Without the rapping.

@telecorpse1957

8 жыл бұрын

+Bo Byrd Nah. That's what we humans call "discussion"

@floriano5204

8 жыл бұрын

+Bo Byrd I think you are about 2500 years late for experiencing the hardcore math-battles. Once a group of mathematicians called "Pythagoreans" drowned a guy because he was about to tell the world that there are numbers that can't be described by a fraction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TAU makes 100% sense PI makes 50%*2 sense

@venkatvallabhaneni1227

3 жыл бұрын

@@christydavidpallanivel1708 I think the joke flew over your head.

@dishant8126

3 жыл бұрын

@@christydavidpallanivel1708 that's the joke

@erg0centric

3 жыл бұрын

Unity achieved, twice

@erg0centric

3 жыл бұрын

@Venkat Vallabhaneni I think the joke circled his head

@fahrenheit2101

3 жыл бұрын

@@christydavidpallanivel1708 How do you miss that joke? Just how?

I love that "we used to sacrifice goats" was 2 points for tau.

WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE! EPIC MATH BATTLES OF HISTORY!

@samleheny1429

6 жыл бұрын

I'd watch it.

@StarTheTripleDevil

5 жыл бұрын

Maπ won because he's unbeatable in Wii Sports. Meanwhile Sτeve is someone jacksepticeye believed in until he started supporting τ-Series over PewDieπ.

@gurnoorsingh4396

4 жыл бұрын

i am the 315th like

@Eduarodi

4 жыл бұрын

It was a pi... I mean a tau... I mean a tie!

@ShuffleboardJerk

3 жыл бұрын

Wouldn’t it be Epic Talk Battles of Math?

Matt got 1 point for saying "wow"

@carultch

2 жыл бұрын

Matt's name should've been spelled as Matt πarker.

@PC_Simo

Жыл бұрын

Maybe we should switch to F (wau), instead 🤔.

@PC_Simo

Жыл бұрын

@@carultch Indeed 😁👍🏻.

@TabooGroundhog

Жыл бұрын

Steve got 2 points for saying we used to sacrifice goats (8:28)

@yonaoisme

8 ай бұрын

he got so many points for nothing

The integration thing was really cool. so many physics formulas are 0.5*something*something else ^2 and its nice to preserve that pattern

@erykpakula

Жыл бұрын

line kinetic energy

@nickcunningham6344

7 ай бұрын

@@erykpakula Yep, exactly. Because kinetic energy is the derivative of momentum, which is mv. We describe the arc length of a circle as 2pi*r, but it would make a lot more sense if the arc length was just tau*r. And then the derivative of that arc length is 0.5*tau*r^2, which is area. Just makes sense.

1:20 I love how he says shut up so secretively lol

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

Matt deserved it lol Mathematicians dont memorize digits of numbers, and just cause he struggles to recite three digits doesn't mean he hasn't done his research about tau and pi

I say we use Pau, which is 1.5 pi or 3/4 tau.

@joetyler835

7 жыл бұрын

Adam Freed Pau is a name of food.. Steamed fluffy white bun stuffed with delicious whatever you want to put.. haha

@cherie914

7 жыл бұрын

compromises are great.

@anuj5573

7 жыл бұрын

It will be so confusing then eg:-if u want to find the circumference it will be :- 5/4 pau radius Tau or pi will be something like this :- tau r and 2 pi r Ur "pau" is way too confusing. No hate ^_^ Have a nice day everyone!

@Doutsoldome

7 жыл бұрын

Eh, in Portuguese, "pau" means a piece of wood, with a corresponding phallic meaning in the vulgar usage. This would make math formulas sound... weird.

@anononomous

6 жыл бұрын

I say we use T'Pau, which is China in Your Hands.

2Pi or not 2Pi... That's the question...

@avesgames4884

7 жыл бұрын

BroFist! I think the real question is Tau or not to Tau

@chrlokk1

7 жыл бұрын

AvesGames Well... If you think about it "2Pi or not 2Pi" makes more more sense, since the original line from Hamlet is "to be or not to be". Im not sure if you are aware of that?

@brandonthesteele

4 жыл бұрын

I wrote a persuasive essay on this subject for a class years ago, and I regret not thinking of that for a title.

@suwinkhamchaiwong8382

4 жыл бұрын

Not 2pi

@thomasosman1692

3 жыл бұрын

This is one of the best jokes I’ve ever heard

This video completely changed my view. I'm team tau now. I never thought of the fact that 1/x of a circle was tau/x radians.

@Tata-ps4gy

Жыл бұрын

That fact alone gives victory to tau in my opinion.

@canyoupoop

7 ай бұрын

Do you know much my math teacher struggled to teach my other classmates about radians and stuff? He almost got himself comfused

@nickcunningham6344

7 ай бұрын

Exactly, like a whole circle being 2pi never made sense to me as a kid. I didn't know tau existed but I did always feel like a whole circle should've been 1 _something_ rather than 2 _something._ Matt's point about measurement also makes sense though. But engineers are dealing with hard math anyways, they can handle dividing a measured diameter by 2 to find the radius, or using tau/2 in equations. Tau is just more intuitive for someone learning about angles and circles.

@maxp3141

3 ай бұрын

Why would circumference be more important than area? Are is what matters most of the time. And that’s in units of Pi.

It's funny to imagine that neither the Mould Effect nor the Parker Square were known back when this video was made. I mean, those things have become so closely associated with these guys that it feels pretty strange to imagine that there even was a time when they weren't known.

in that case divide it by 360 no one would use that kind of a unit.

@quint4785

8 жыл бұрын

noscope

@robinbernardinis

7 жыл бұрын

The funny thing is that people use it all the time

@KarstenOkk

7 жыл бұрын

+Robin Bernardinis That's the joke.

@joetec6674

7 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@caterscarrots3407

7 жыл бұрын

Um, that kind of a unit is used all the time. A degree in terms of radians is 2pi/360 or pi/180. And degrees are used all the time whether it is in trig or geometry or engineering, they all use degrees. In fact I think in degrees and convert to radians later on.

2 points for "historically, we've slaughtered goats" is my favorite

@sabinrawr

4 жыл бұрын

This seems like the scoring of QI, or maybe that one task in the first series of Taskmaster taking place in the Squash court.

@timmy18135

4 жыл бұрын

Or rode the goat

*23 - 27* "There are more advantages if we switch to base 12, than if we switched to tau" *ding* *1E - 23*

@franzlyonheart4362

4 жыл бұрын

BoldFace Seven, but Isn't that an error? A means ten, B means eleven, now in base twelve, the digits 10 means twelve, so 1B equals twelve plus eleven, which back in base 10 means 23. The E is used as a digit in base 16 (which ist more relevant to computer science) and stands for fourteen. The F for fifteen (=10-1 in base 16). Base twelve doesn't need E,F, it just needs A,B as extra digits (for ten, and respectively for eleven = 10-1). Has the video editor confused base 12 with base 16? Or am I missing something else?

@franzlyonheart4362

4 жыл бұрын

Hmmm maybe they use Epsilon to signify digit "eleven" in English?

@cd8048

4 жыл бұрын

@@franzlyonheart4362 base 12's 'extra' digits don't use the alphabet like base 16 instead use a 'dec' (looks like x, means 10) and 'elle' (looks like E, means 11) with '10' being pronounced 'dough' and meaning 12 So 1E is 'dough elle' (12 and 11, 23)

@franzlyonheart4362

4 жыл бұрын

murtada xxh5, thanks, I figured it out myself by watching one of his other videos. Too computer-centric!

@Henrix1998

3 жыл бұрын

@@cd8048 nineteen, doughteen, elleteen, twenty?

loved how the scores switched to base 12 too, great detail

This calls for an epic rap battle.

@anah1269

8 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@viniciusdeloi2672

6 жыл бұрын

Taxation is theft

@vertigo.frog2110

6 жыл бұрын

lol an ancap

@codiserville593

6 жыл бұрын

Hey voluntaryanist

@williamgolove561

4 жыл бұрын

Lemon Party I thought that was what this was

"A unit shouldn't be the whole thing." Somebody forgot what units are.

@thomasw4422

6 жыл бұрын

Tau would be much more easily to understand as a whole circle than having to remember it's 2 pi all the time

@edwinlevi6608

6 жыл бұрын

You say that as if we measure a day as 1/365th of a unit

@DK-py2qx

6 жыл бұрын

I never forget my unit!

@BoldFaceSeven

6 жыл бұрын

You do know that there's a reason we say there are 365.25 days in a year right? It's not like that is an arbitrary number.

@nekkowe

8 ай бұрын

@@BoldFaceSeven And a year is a full revolution of the earth around the sun, not half of one, because that's the more useful measurement.

"Insufficiently right" sounds like the math equivalent of "bless your heart" both in the insulting way and the honest heartwarming way.

Let's just forget about all this and π=3.2

@R3lay0

4 жыл бұрын

τ = 6.4

@infernape716

3 жыл бұрын

π = e = √g = 3

@Mike_Rogge

3 жыл бұрын

π=4

@someonestolemyname

3 жыл бұрын

Yes it is genius and of course I can circle the square

@adamrezabek9469

3 жыл бұрын

pi=tau=4=e=2e

7:53 "In that case divide it by 360" - Steve "Now you've just gone too far, no one would use that kind of a unit!" - Matt I feel like this is underappreciated.

@GeneralAceTheAwesome

8 жыл бұрын

+Josh O'fortune I think so too. It's such a true statement. I truly want to know who came up with such a ridiculous measurement as degrees for angles. While we're at it, I'd like to know why degrees Fahrenheit exists, and everything else in the Imperial measurement system.

@TheJmax04

8 жыл бұрын

Noah Dale The metric system certainly is more practical, but from a more abstract perspective, it's not much better than the other systems. Why water? why not nitrogen or some other thing? Can we ever perfectly measure the temperature of water when it freezes or boils? Kelvin is better, because of its base point, but the size of its units are still based on water. Then when we move on to our other metric units. 1000m = 1km. This is based on base ten, precisely, 10^3. But base ten is yet another arbitrary decision. Binary, dozenal, hexavigesimal, there are any number of options. (although dozenal is more useful than decimal often...) The point is, most of our units are, in the end, arbitrarily chosen, so when one is not, it is extra special.

@GeneralAceTheAwesome

8 жыл бұрын

Josh O'fortune Water is a clear choice for a measurement system. Humans have used water since... literally the beginning of the species since we need it to live. Since we can frequently see water in all three forms of matter, it makes a lot of sense to make a measurement. Most everything else appears in only one or two forms at conventional temperatures, especially when compared to substances regular people actually care about. Base ten is *waaaaaayyyyy* too obvious. Count and use your fingers to track your count. If you decide using a different marker than 10 is a better system, let me know.

@GeneralAceTheAwesome

8 жыл бұрын

Josh O'fortune Considering dogs aren't going to be tracking the temperature accurately any time soon, I'm pretty sure an objective approach *is* the one that is easiest for humans to use, That's just the same argument from the Numberphile video on base 12. I agree entirely that using base 12 is better for everyday life, as argued in the aforementioned video, but that's sadly not where humans started counting. It's less intuitive (from a learning from the beginning perspective) to start counting by cutting your finger into 3 pieces and counting the pieces than to simply count the whole finger.

@GeneralAceTheAwesome

8 жыл бұрын

אבהו דלשר Well then why did "ancient people" use base 60?

This is ridiculous. What would we bake on tau day ? :p

@Sunlight91

8 жыл бұрын

+Columini you can grill a beef steak. ;)

@RaDiumDrummer

8 жыл бұрын

+Columini 2pies?!... i'll shut up now

@wontuserealname8918

8 жыл бұрын

+Columini T-bones obviously

@TikiBrosProduction

8 жыл бұрын

+Columini We would bake 2 pies. :p

@unvergebeneid

8 жыл бұрын

+Columini "Tau" means "dew" in German. So I don't know what you would bake but I do know what you should drink ;)

"Historically, we sacrificed goats" * 2 points* XD

I remember being continually confused when learning to use radians because of the /2 and having to convert back to degrees to get a picture of how large a given angle was. E.g. 3pi/2 - you can work it out, but I think it would just be simpler to say (3/4)tau

When the scores changed to be in base 12 was probably the best part.

I love how the scoring changed to base 12 at the end :p

@ambulocetusnatans

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, I genuinely LOLed at that, and I rarely LOL.

Steve: Blah Blah Blah Steve gets 1 point Matt: Wow Matt gets 1 point

I think we should call pi/4 (or tau/8) "pizza." Because: - It is the ratio of crust length slice length on an idealized pizza cut into eight slices - it is the ratio of pizza area to pizza box area, given a perfectly circular pizza that fits snugly into a perfectly square pizza box. - you can't spell 'pizza' without 'pi.' - if people want to complete the pattern we could also then call pi/2 = tau/4 'tauzza.'

Why does τ only have one "leg" and π has two "legs" when τ=2π? Can we please switch the symbols?

@Jkirek_

7 жыл бұрын

SkydiverTyler they're greek letters... not made to serve the purpose of being a mathematical constant

@user-xq2md1um1r

7 жыл бұрын

+Jasper Kole exactly....btw iam greek^^

@TheMrYakobo

7 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@raumaankidwai

7 жыл бұрын

Tau people think about it like this: The horizontal "bar" in τ and π is like a fraction bar. If you reduce the denominator in a fraction by a factor of two, the fraction gets multiplied by two. 2 legs in π reduced by a fraction of 2 = 1 leg in τ = 1 leg in 2π.

@skydivertyler

7 жыл бұрын

Brilliant

I love how they got some of their points just for delivering sick burns. XD

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

Matt got a point for saying Wow

@yonaoisme

8 ай бұрын

i hate it

@nickcunningham6344

7 ай бұрын

@@yonaoisme Don't, the points aren't meant to be taken very seriously. They even switched the points to base 12 at the end, which is just hilarious

The problem with suddenly using tau is that a lot of people (physicists, engineers, etc) already use tau as the symbol for a time constant. They also use it as a dummy integration variable when integrating an equation from, say, zero to t.

@alexanderloughran2716

5 жыл бұрын

Jared Coltharp pi is also used in things like molecular orbitals

@annoyingbroccoli3939

5 жыл бұрын

Tau is generally the symbol for torque

Cause of WW1: Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand WW2: It is complicated WW3: Pi vs Tau

@isavenewspapers8890

2 ай бұрын

Interesting coincidence: the day of the assassination was Tau Day. Imagine if World War III also started on Tau Day.

"Tau gets you nowhere." - 7:27 absolutely loving this!

@scienceium5233

3 жыл бұрын

hate pi love tau

@jevicci

3 жыл бұрын

This, along with Steve's reactions to Matt's points here, is my favorite part of the video.

@seanordonez9208

2 жыл бұрын

WYSI

@rahimiayob03

Жыл бұрын

When you see it 🤣

@ssaamil

11 ай бұрын

@@seanordonez9208 goddamnit!!!

I had a really hard time understanding radians and getting an intuition for angles in radians in terms of pi. Once I heard it explained in terms of tau, I understood instantly. Pi totally screwed me learning trig in high school.

“This tells us something!” - Steve Mould

These two became two of my all-time favorite youtube personalities completely independently of each other. It's such a heartwarming trip to see a video over a decade old of them arguing about this. Outstanding.

You know you've been watching too much Numberphile when you get excited that both of their scores are primes.

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

yep

Actually I think we really ought to stop saying we have a half-dozen items and instead say that we have a double-few items. It promotes positive thinking.

@seanmuller8774

8 жыл бұрын

I agree

@benyed1636

8 жыл бұрын

+thought2007 We could just say 6.

@seanmuller8774

8 жыл бұрын

but why do it the easy way?

@benyed1636

8 жыл бұрын

Shadowman599 Because it's easier.

@NathanRichan

8 жыл бұрын

+thought2007 Few is greater than OR equal to 3, so would make more sense to say three couples (because a couple is always 2). Next time you go to the donut shop tell them you're getting a double-three-couples.

Hahaha the moment when you switch the scoreboard to base 12 notation was the most subtly epic thing I've ever seen.

I was never sold on Tau until I watched this video. Thanks Steve.

Why does one have to be better, this is like arguing "8 is better than 4 because most of the time, instead of writing 2x4, you can just write 8." and the rebuttal is "Well, what if you want to write 2+2=4, then it would be awkward to write 2+2=8/2" yes, yes it would, and that's why we have both.

@toprakozturk3150

9 жыл бұрын

Rainbow Pigeon I thought the same while i was watching.

@basamaro1

9 жыл бұрын

Like this 123Pi456Tau789 10? I like both also!

@GreenFesh

9 жыл бұрын

Rainbow Pigeon you obviously dont get the joke in this vid

@beau9801

9 жыл бұрын

Greko Fesh Hmm, maybe I don't, could you explain?

@GreenFesh

9 жыл бұрын

Rainbow Pigeon they act like it's a rapbattle, while they discuss about nerdy stuff like math, although it obviously doesn't make too much sense to fight over these two numbers.

Solution: Use whichever one is best for whatever you're doing. Argument over.

@numbo655

4 жыл бұрын

Not really. If you used tau people wouldn't know what you were talking about. It has to be standardized.

@seabassthegamer6644

4 жыл бұрын

@@numbo655 "tau = pi * 2" isn't really that hard to tell everyone. Saying people won't know what tau means is like saying everyone has to say "1/100 of a meter" because people won't know what centimeters are.

1:20 my man really just got a point just by saying "wow"

2021: π is now known to τ×10¹³ digits. This took the best part of 4 months to calculate. Such dedication to π vs τ trolling.

when Matt said "the unit shouldn't be the whole thing" his score should've been halved...

@valeweinmann9907

6 жыл бұрын

tgwnn yeah!! What do you mean the unit shouldn't be the whole thing?! That's the definition of unit ONE WHOLE THING

@thalesvondasos

4 жыл бұрын

@@valeweinmann9907 Oh come on, the whole thing?! That's absurd. I propose: From now on, we measure time in 7th of a day! /s

@i_am_anxious0247

4 жыл бұрын

mr saxophon we already measure time in 24ths of a day. ...and 60ths of 24ths of days. And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of days. And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of 7ths of weeks. And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of 7ths of 52ths of years. We do this.

@calencrawford2195

4 жыл бұрын

Yes!

@i_am_anxious0247

4 жыл бұрын

James Michael Hoosier is we just used half days and didn’t complain about it, then, yeah, that’d work.

Um, e^i(tau) = 1, which is actually way cooler because it essentially means, "one full turn is one"

@tgwnn

4 жыл бұрын

yep.

@calencrawford2195

4 жыл бұрын

Woah, that is cool!

@lumer2b

2 жыл бұрын

But you can't even know that you did a full turn, there's nothing hinting you that you left 1. If you learn e^i(tau) = 1, and you try e^i(tau/2) you would think it would be 1^(1/2) which is 1, but that's wrong. With pi you learn this is -1, and you also know if you try pi/2 you get (-1)^2 = i. You lose all this by using tau.

@aneeshsrinivas9088

2 жыл бұрын

@@lumer2b have you not seen the derivation of this identity? the derivation of this identity makes it pretty clear that you did do a full rotation.

@isavenewspapers8890

3 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@lumer2bA person should know better than to use real number exponent rules for complex numbers. If they don't, that's on them. Also, the statement (-1)^2 = i is false. (-1)^2 is actually equal to 1. I think you mean (-1)^(1/2) = i.

I like how Tau just fits into Steve's name like Pi does into Matt's.

since the circumference is tau x r, we should build a tower on tau day!?

Love the way the scores switch to Base 12 at the end! I think I wish Tau won the VHS/Betamax wars but we're lumped with PI now.

"The unit shouldn't be the whole thing." CONCEPT FAIL. We don't use radians to circles. We use radians to measure revolutions. Seriously, has Matt here gotten past elementary school geometry?

@isavenewspapers8890

3 ай бұрын

Okay, rude.

"Both of them have advantages and disadvantages" -> Matt gets 3 points

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

Biased

I just use tau when I'm talking about things like sine wave periods and other trig stuff, and pi for the other stuff. But really I just use them both pretty much interchangeably. If I'm talking about pi or half tau, I write pi because you only have to write one thing. If I'm talking about tau or two pi, I write tau because you only have to write one thing. I think schools should teach both and they'll just be equally useful. It's not even something you have to bring in slowly. The only thing you'd have to do would be to say "oh, and by the way, you can just write two pi as tau" and that's it. It's incredibly simple. Circumference? Tau times r. Area? Pi r squared. Period of sin, cos, csc and sec? Tau. Period of tan and cot? Pi. They're constants. So if you can multiply two numbers together and get a single number, do it. Writing two pi or half tau to me seems like leaving 2 cubed as 2 cubed instead of just writing eight. Sometimes that stuff is useful to leave unsimplified; things like three hundred to the power of 256. But when you can write one symbol instead of two, why not do it?

USE PI WHEN IT WORKS BETTER AND USE TAU WHEN IT WORKS BETTER This was a cute video, though. :-D I like that Matt makes half his points while doing nothing.

@TheCodingDuck

8 жыл бұрын

+Pyagrl*16 I noticed matts point making too

I wonder if people who prefer pi over tau think we should measure frequency in "half cycles"...

@mirajali2777

7 жыл бұрын

RFC3514 I do

@chrispham6599

6 жыл бұрын

I prefer Pi but I measure frequency in full cycles

Oh lord i havnt watched this video in so long. Both Steve and Matt are so young. The score swapping to base 12 at the end when Matt makes the base 12 argument is still hillarious.

I'm amazed at that comeback from 5 - 11 to 11 - 11 and then even going into the lead for a second!

Isn't fighting between tau and pi, like fighting between kilogram and gram?

@ZonkoKongo

8 жыл бұрын

Meh.

@liamborella8977

8 жыл бұрын

It would be fighting between a kilogram and a half-kilogram

@braedenhunt3677

8 жыл бұрын

+Liam Borella no kilogram and 2 kilograms

@Freakschwimmer

8 жыл бұрын

+Liam Borella the Half-kilogramm is called metric pound :)

@jade43296

8 жыл бұрын

Kilo and 500gram

"Why are we getting so emotional about our irrationals when we should be getting more radial about our base systems." brilliant lol OK now do Base 10 vs Base 12

@cperez1000

7 жыл бұрын

doodelay, they already did a video on the history of base 10 and base 12, just not in this format

@subscribefornoreason542

4 жыл бұрын

Base 12 wins easily

@hannibal8810

4 жыл бұрын

Base 6 ftw

@bayleev7494

4 жыл бұрын

Let's just switch to base 60 already

@madscientistshusta

4 жыл бұрын

Base 10 is easier to teach to kids.

I like to think the reason they're sitting in an empty restaurant is that they met up for dinner, started discussing Pi vs Tau and now it's well after closing and all the staff are in the kitchen waiting for these two mathematicians to stop arguing and go home so they can close up shop.

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

Well you see, it was thanks to them that the servers could close down at all. You see, while they were talking, someone came in and ordered half a drink, then another came and ordered a fourth of a drink, then another ordered an eighth of a drink. The server asked the third man how many people were coming in, and he said there was an infinite line of people in his group, with an exponentially decaying thirst. The servers thought they would be serving people drinks forever. . . until Matt tells them to pour a single drink and give it to the first guy, getting him to pass the drink out to his group until everyone was satisfied. I'm sorry it's 3:30 AM I am probably not even going to remember writing this.

The day has come. I was completely enthralled with a video about maths.

Tau is twice as large as Pi, but it looks like you cut Pi in half to get Tau.

@duckymomo7935

6 жыл бұрын

gabe juhasz yea that just gets confusing

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

Yeah you get used to it. The other option was adding two more lines to make it look more like a H

@LunizIsGlacey

10 ай бұрын

Imagine it like a "circle over 1" and a "circle over 2"

I'd much rather have a factor of 2 in some equations than a 1/2 in some equations...whole numbers are much nicer to deal with.

@SnowyHil

9 жыл бұрын

pi looses its efficiency when working with the trigonometric graphs tho. i spend over a minute on them.

This is still one of the biggest robberies I've seen on KZread. Steve had this in the bag.

I love how they end up giving each other points.

So if Tau won would Numberphile have changed their logo?

I was expecting blood and gore by the end of the video

@conradthe2

8 жыл бұрын

+xZerplinxProduction What if this was what our politicians fought about rather than whatever they're fighting about right now

the first example matt showed with euler's identity at 2:15 is bad because it also works with tau just as beautifully e^iπ + 1 = 0 e^iτ - 1 = 0

I got a phone call in the middle of this video and by chance stopped the video at 6:28. I'm proud of that.

I love the reaction of Matt when Steve is talking, it's like ''wtf you talkin about''

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

No, it's more like he understands exactly what he's talking about, and he understands that he is talking about an absolutely absurd idea, and framing it in a way where it does not immediately appear so.

Pi is only simpler if you're already accustomed to the arithmetic abstraction of pi. If you are describing anything in physics there is nowhere that half a revolution makes more sense as a unit than a whole revolution.

Ah yes, 2/3 if my favorite comedic trio: Steve and Map

@aguyontheinternet8436

Жыл бұрын

poor map

How did matt get a point just for saying "wow" ?? 😂😂😂

When tau is more used, someone says, "When we use tau, we see τ/2 often. Let's use pi insterd of τ/2. "

I like the base twelve switch at the end

I think the argument about expressing radians as fractions of a whole circle really clinches superiority of Tau.

Matt: "the unit shouldn't be the whole thing" Me: Stares in Unit Circle.

"Tau gets you NOWHERE." xDD!

I think we should use the complete turn as the standard unit of angle size.

@somedude4938

8 жыл бұрын

the complete tau - n, that is

@msmsmsms8515

7 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_(geometry)

@jimiwills

5 жыл бұрын

I do.

@nutronstar45

Жыл бұрын

and the symbol for a turn is obviously τ

@ttmfndng201

Жыл бұрын

I've thought about this, but I think tau/pi are better since radians are defined using them, and radians are the only unit for measuring angles where d/dx(sinx)=cosx, which is very useful

As a crochet/knitter, I absolutely love base 12 and use it for the vast majority of my stitch patterns!

I got points off on a test once for using the 1/2 pi r^2 because I mixed it up with the position equation for acceleration, x=1/2 at^2. And they're derived the same way. The only reason that they're not the same is because we use pi instead of tau.

So... Tau is a Parker Square?

@SmileyMPV

8 жыл бұрын

+Owen Prescott More like parker circle

@reubensmart1757

8 жыл бұрын

Oooh that is savage

@paulerate

7 жыл бұрын

YhehHEHEhEhheHEHE gO tO tRuThcONtEstcOM, Read THe pREseNt

@Sam_on_YouTube

7 жыл бұрын

I would argue that Pi is a Parker Radius.

@Peter_1986

7 жыл бұрын

+SmileyMPV I _knew_ someone would say "Parker Circle". xD

It's upsetting that you keep giving Matt numbers for Steve making mistakes. Yeah he was taught under Pi so he's obviously going uphill talking about Tau. That's not an argument in favor of Pi or Tau.

@timm.l1635

8 жыл бұрын

Oh c'mon please tell me you didn't take the scoring system seriously!

@darrishawks6033

8 жыл бұрын

***** No no no. Not even a little. I was just having a moment of pedanticness lol

@WnIyLkLvIiAsMt97

8 жыл бұрын

+Darris Hawks Sorry for seeing this so late! I still feel the need to tell you this though, Matt got a point for saying "Wow". ;_;

@tgwnn

4 жыл бұрын

Well, I'm a Tau guy, but I did laugh out loud when I saw Steve's integral.

this whole conversation was awesome

All that talk of pi, plus the sound of a ringing bell, made my mouth water…

@wouterlahousse9637

3 жыл бұрын

Drips saliva: *Pavlov intensified*

7:44 "unit". I'm not a tauist but a *UNI*t shouldn't be 1? really Matt?

@desromic

8 жыл бұрын

+Soupy A unit is always 1 unit of itself (a radian is 1 radian). Obvious, but that, in itself, satisfies the nomenclature; it is the single uniform entity (the "unit") by which you count. It doesn't require the unit (1 radian) to be equal to some other unit (1 full circle). Sometimes it shouldn't. Again, the word "unit" doesn't pertain to the size of the unit and how it relates to other units, only that it is, itself, unitary.

@Lellba47

8 жыл бұрын

+Soupy one part, not one full thing, you don't measure the length of a table as a fraction of another table :P

@soupy4099

8 жыл бұрын

+Xianaic actually, the km used to be defined as 1/10000th the distance from the north pole to the equator through Paris. in a way, the metric system does measure in eat the.

@Lellba47

8 жыл бұрын

metric system is a particular case, its made to make calculations easier, that why for example Cº are scaled around water's boiling and freezing temperatures.

@Asmodeus555

8 жыл бұрын

+Soupy Totally right?! Tau makes way more sense for this. Tau radians is the whole circle "it does't go anywhere" but that means that 1/2Tau radians is halfway around and 1/4Tau is a 1/4 round, that makes sooo much more sense than.

Steve sealed his fate when he accidentally wrote pi.

Ah, yes, my favourite Numberphile hosts, Staueve and Mapi.

Pi = Python = VHS Tau = Ruby = Betamax You just go with what is the most popular and supported.

the points system on this is less rational than the points system on QI

@PortalStorm4000

7 жыл бұрын

Dat joke

@sabinrawr

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cyamond Thanks for PIcking up on that!

That switch to 1Ɛ - 23 really got me. :D

Matt: Breaths Counter: +10

I'm for pi! And here's why (from a physics rather than Maths point of view). When you talk about interference of waves we use pi radians to describe if it's constructive or destructive interference. For destructive it's π radian out of phase it's destructive if it's 2π it's constructive. Using Tau will create fractions and really detracts from the unit. I agree with Matt, it makes more sense to use π as it allows it to be a better unit. Encompassing something takes something away. Pi is everywhere from Hawking's equations to Coulomb's law (where k is 1/4πe0). It's for this reason that Steve's notion of it not being a just one unit is redundant. If we used Tau we'd get 4τ and 2τ so it doesn't actually "solve" anything.

@princeistalri7944

9 жыл бұрын

From a mathematical point of view, Tau is really the superior choice, but I really think it's pointless to change all the books at this point. Tau is more "natural", but Pi is what the mathematicians of old went with, so it's what we go with.

@AlchemistOfNirnroot

9 жыл бұрын

Prince Istalri Have you noticed how Tau's symbol is half of pi's symbol even though tau is two pi?

@princeistalri7944

9 жыл бұрын

AlchemistOfNirnroot Maybe you can look at the "legs" as denominators, with Tau being Tau/1, and Pi being Tau/2 :P

@AlchemistOfNirnroot

9 жыл бұрын

Prince Istalri My vision, in ruin...

@princeistalri7944

9 жыл бұрын

AlchemistOfNirnroot Still.. Tau wins. In a perfect world, Tau would have the Pi symbol assigned to it.

Its very simple to me Tau makes the meaning of equations at the forefront. Wherever you see tau you see there has been a complete circle or a complete cycle or something of that manner. Any time an equation is simpler with pi its because a meaning has been obscured. Its not just about education, its about making your own results and your own findings clearer, and making a richer understanding of the results of others more immediate.

I just found a hilariously intellectual debate between two mathematicians who are nice comedians, it was really enjoyable!!!!!!

Hey, I'm curious, I saw a video recently by 3blue1brown where he showed in an idealized physics simulation if you send a larger mass towards a smaller mass and a wall it bounces back and forth a certain number of times. And if you do it for powers of 100 it actually will give you the digits of pi with more precision with higher numbers. Is there a change to the set up that would also let it count tau? or are fun little "pop up randomly" situations that happen with pi only with pi?

@sillysausage4549

2 жыл бұрын

I think I can help. Have a cheese sandwich.

With pi you get this little nugget: "Pie are squared" (Pi*r^2) "No, they're round" -Hilarity ensures