Hey everyone! I wanted to give you all a bit of a behind the scenes insight on the creation of this video. Originally this was meant to be a small blurb on the Tales of Zestiria review I am currently working on, however I kept expanding it to the point where I realized that not only did it need to be its own video but that much more research was needed. If you're wondering about the Tales of Zestiria review itself, that's still being worked on but I don't want to give out any estimates as I am not sure how long it will take me to finish. All I can say is that it will be quite the substantial video and I hope you all look forward to it.

@szilvesztertoth1628

6 жыл бұрын

Definitely man, love your reviews keep up the good work!

@razor2910

6 жыл бұрын

Great Vid. I was also wondering if the game had some of the changes it did in the Zestiria the X animation would it had been a bit better received. Alisha being with the group a bit more,being able to Armatize and being at the last battle and such. What do you think?

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I would say if Alisha remained a permanent party member it would've made the game a bit better and I think less people would be bitter about it.

@aliastheabnormal

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai Fucking seriously? This game was so horrible for so many reasons and Baba goes down because people are bitching about their waifus? Alisha and Rose both suck anyways! And the older games are superior! Fuck y'all! Fight me! I'm honestly impressed nobody complained that Sorey is gay!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

........ what the hell are you babbling about? I never said the game was good,

I'm not sure how the English translation did it, but in the original Japanese version, there was a scene about how the main characters talk about how Rose is the 'true companion' and implying that Alisha not being one due to her natural incompetence. The whole spark of the controversy is not really Alisha leaving the team, nor is it the DLC. The real flame came from all these things added "plus" the script trashing talk about the character who left. It kinda was a big bomb to Japan gamers: you can kill a main character (Phantasy Star 4, FF7), but you don't just kick a character out because she was incompetent (and especially when the incompetence was not caused by her lack of training, etc). The 1 star rating on Amazon came flying in when the gamers confirmed what had been said in the script. You can find more info looking for "真の仲間".

@DanielSantosAnalysis

4 жыл бұрын

I don't specifically recall the English version having a line like that. I'd argue though, that if this is true, it's just one part of what contributed to the controversy, there were many factors that fed into it.

@TwilightWolf032

Жыл бұрын

Oh, I played the game with Japanese audio, and I remember those conversations quite clearly. That's how much they infuriated me. There's so much wrong with how her leaving the party was dealt with - they just say she has to, she lowers her head and accepts, then everyone else just moves on without fanfare. Then when Rose joins, everybody praises her like she's Poochie from that one Simpsons episode (now, don't get me wrong, I like Rose as a character and would have loved to see her and Alisha on the same team during the main story - the DLC was trash), especially her initial fear of the supernatural and her overreactions, but it's how her character is treated in relation to Alisha that kills it for me. To add salt to injury, nobody thinks of getting Alisha to develop her sixth in any way, shape or form. They just tell her to get lost and so she does! Soleil got his sixth sense sharpened to the max because he was raised by the spirits (I don't know what word they use for it in English) for 17 years, so clearly contact with them can help improve your senses for the supernatural, and since Alisha has some ability to sense them, she can hone her skills to become as strong as Rose. But the narrative treats sixth sense as some inherit skill that cannot be honed and someone who doesn't qualify can never be of use to the Shepperd. And then there's the way the cast does everything to avoid interacting with Alisha when she's out of the party. You get to some areas where you see her struggling and in need of moral support from her friends, but what's the first and ONLY thought in the cast's mind? "Let's leave her alone." You find her busting out a suspicious transactions in the sewers between two merchants of countries at war with each other, she suspects the merchant from her country of espionage and rightfully tries to arrest him, only for them to (and I hope you remember this scene) WITHOUT ANY PROOF OF THEIR CLAIMS WHATSOEVER tell her that this kind of secret kinship between warrying countries is necessary, that without their shady trades behind the scenes both countries would collapse economically and that the population of both sides must be kept in the dark about the nobility of both sides being in nice terms with each other despite their soldiers being sent to kill the other side on a daily basis! And then they have the audacity to bash her attempt at investigating a possible traitor, belittle her for her position as one of the successors to the throne and as a knight, then demand a written apology for her if she doesn't want the other nobles to know about her perceived blunder! And how does the party respond to that scene? "LET'S LEAVE HER ALONE!" When she needs her friends for moral support the most, they abandon her! They turn their backs on Alisha for absolutely no reason whatsoever and tell the player that we can't comfort her! That we can't tell her she was on the right for thinking that was shady and needed further investigation, that they were wrong and the population knowing that the nobility of both countries being in cahoots with each other could lead to stopping the war once they realized they are being played for a façade that is costing the lives of soldiers and their livelihoods as the economy suffers. You can't be by Alisha's side because the playable characters are a bunch of backstabbing pricks! And what is Alisha's supposed good ending? She stops being a knight in order to become a politician, which she was vehemently against during the course of the game, and is seen with that exact same merchant being taught how to engage in shady, behind the scenes schemes to get on the good graces of guys like him in order to advance her political career! Her "good ending" was learning to give up on her hopes and dreams and conform to corruption! Seriously, there are a lot of quests where you watch Alisha's quest from afar but can't interact with her because will go "let's leave her alone for now" when she needs them the most. And when they finally talk to her, not because they're worried or want to enjoy her company, but because they NEED SOMETHING FROM HER and can't avoid interacting, she's all smiles and praises for them, never knowing that these pricks are only using her!

For me, the main issue of Alisha all goes back to the fact that she and Sorey were the first characters revealed for the game. No one sees the first character a game reveals and thinks "Nope, that character isn't going to be a major part of the playable party". This is the first thing the developers are choosing to show you, everyone is going to assume (and correctly so the vast majority of the time) that the characters they show off to reveal the game itself are going to be the main characters. Heck, Rose herself was actually one of the last party members revealed, if memory serves, which doesn't exactly scream "this character is going to be the secondary main". So yes, I do believe that at some point Alisha was meant to be the main secondary character, after Sorey. Then at some point that plan changed, writing and story took a different direction. Which... ya know, that's fine and all. But it does illustrate the pratfalls of revealing details about a game like characters too soon. If you show things before the story is finalized, then you either pigeonhole yourself into a situation where you can't change things within the story because of the expectations people have about what you've already shown, or you change it anyway and risk a situation like the Alisha debacle where people end up ticked off. Hopefully the lack of details about the next Tales game means that they're taking that lesson to heart and making sure everything is set before they start showing things off.

@TwilightWolf032

2 жыл бұрын

This all could have been solved if Alisha leaving the party meant she was undergoing her own training arc off screen to gain the power she needed to becomes Sorey's true squire, standing side by side with Rose. Come back during a fight with the Lord of Calamity halfway through the game or a similarly tough boss, and the player could have unlocked the ability to have 6 characters on screen at once (given Armatization reduces the number of characters in battle, this could even the odds against theoretical late game mobs that love to tackle you in Dangerous Encounters and have Linked Enemies). The biggest problem with Alisha is that she isn't really relevant after she leaves the party, despite being the one responsible for making Sorey step into the world outside his humble village and becoming humanity's savior! It was Alisha who kickstarted the whole plot of Zestiria, but she isn't relevant after we got attached to her!

The thing with Alisha disappointed me more than made me angry. She's the only character you ever get with that moveset so it was really awkward when she comes back for a bit with all these new artes. Like, you can't expect me to know how to use this character after taking her away from me for so long. I guess to be fair it's not like the game forced you to only use Alisha at that time but it's still a shame. Oh well Edna best girl in the game anyway lol, I hardly used the other characters after obtaining her.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Edna is definitely best girl!

@JonborgVA

5 жыл бұрын

Same with the Items and weapons

Man it had nothing to do with false advertising. I played Zestira blind and even I was still pissed off when Rose took over. Alisha was a great character which seemed to be developing a good arc and I was curious where they would go with it. Rose is just not an interesting character. If Rose had been a better character maybe people wouldn't have minded.

I didn't realize there was a controversy with Alisha, and I wouldn't have minded Alisha leaving if Rose wasn't such a god-awful character. She sucks because she's written in this "have my cake and eat it too" way where she's simultaneously the bestest badass ever and the most incompetent idiot to exist while also being "right" all the time.

Awesome video! I knew people were upset about the lack of Alisha, but I had no idea about everyone getting the threats. That's insane!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I was also taken aback when I found out about the death threats, it seems so over the top for what really isn't a big deal.

@pralenkaman8105

5 жыл бұрын

connerthewaffle your channel is plagued with tales of music and references but you still haven't done a video on the franchise why's that

"Edna is the best character." Eizen would be proud.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

2 жыл бұрын

Funny how Eizen is also a top tier character, although the cast in Berseria is just great overall.

there's no proof of those baseless rumors in the game , true. And it's sad how far fans took this situation. But how do anyone explain that Alisha's equipment (like ribbon ties and lances) can be bought in late game stores? A simple mistake? I still believe Alisha was supposed to be the main heroine, but for unknown reasons she was unceremoniously replaced. The game handles that situation (Alisha's departure) pretty bad, specially since Rose is kind of a convenient character without flaws and being praised for everything in the game. I still think Rose is the best companion to Sorey, but I like Alisha as a character better.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

The point of the video was mainly to bring the facts to the table to clear up misconceptions. Whether Alisha was or wasn't always planned to to be handled that way is difficult to say, or if the change was made, who was at fault. We just don't know for sure and blindly hating on the developers and making things up didn't help anything.

@i-hate-handle-names

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, not mentioning the Alisha specific items found in parts of the game that she is not available for is kind of an odd thing to leave out. If we assume that the marketing team mistakenly portrayed Alisha in a larger role than the Dev team intended then did the Dev team mistakenly add items to the game for her too?

@ShyBoy6ty9

4 жыл бұрын

After having the game since launch, I finally finished the game for the first time. I thought that was weird too. I was getting all excited thinking Alisha was going to make a comeback, only for her to come back for a battle or two, then go back to Rose. I wasn't upset by it; I liked Rose, but it was odd to say the least.

@eliasacevedo5711

4 жыл бұрын

Rose was a better character than Alisha to be honest.

@revolvingworld2676

4 жыл бұрын

@@eliasacevedo5711 Well I agree but its also not fair since we had more time and decelopment with rose.

I hated Rose. She felt shoehorned into the group and she was absolutely useless in the battlefield. I thought Alisha was a better fit for the group personally.

I gave the game the benefit of a doubt and forced myself through it. Alisha’s departure was mean spirited. Your whole party basically goes “you’re useless shit and we don’t want you around.” to Alisha. There is no reason for her character to have been that intricately designed if she was just going to be thrown to the side like that so early. Now you may mention FF7 or whatever, but in FF7 there was a shit load of development before the character was killed off and her death had a huge effect on the other characters. With Alisha it’s like, “we are expecting a badass redhead in a few hours so you can go now, we don’t have room for you.” She was just tossed away, and no shits were given about her by the rest of the cast. I wasn’t this pissed off since Xillia where Jude literally didn’t care that his childhood friend just got shot and never expresses any worry or anything because hey, Mira’s hotter right? Then when Rose comes by she’s like “Hey I’m badass and everything I do is badass. You know killing’s badass right? Well I kill, like a badass.” It was just so forced that I rolled my eyes to the back of my head and now have to look at my own brain for the rest of eternity. Regardless of those problems the rest of the game was still shit. If it were better, I could have overlooked it, but god was it so dull. The anime isn’t much better, but at least it treats Alisha with respect and tones down Rose to a tolerable level. Also unlimited budget works for great action scenes. Well, at least we got Berseria which is a fantastic game and kind of makes me want to revisit Zestiria, not on its own, but with the notion in mind that it could technically be seen as the sequel to Berseria. Also with my own head canon that Velvet eventually wakes up and devours the world. This just goes to show, misleading the audience out of bad will doesn’t lead to good results. You don’t take food away from a dog unless you want to get bitten.

@revolvingworld2676

4 жыл бұрын

I made the mistake of Berseria being my first tales game. And then I played Zesteria afterward and to me it wasn't good I liked some of the characters but the main character was kinda dull. Im currently playing Vesperia and im enjoying it so far. Im looking forward to Arise.

@xxJing

4 жыл бұрын

RevolvingWorld Vesperia is pretty great though the last act is kind of weak. Most Tales of games are great though. I’d say that Zestiria and Tempest are the only really weak ones. Xillia is good, but I hate the main character so much that I just want to strangle him and it makes enjoying what’s otherwise a great game difficult for me. My favorite Tales of... game is probably Tales of Destiny. I love the characters in that one the most.

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

@@revolvingworld2676 Bro same I played Berseria first and I was so disappointed in Zesteria afterward. Like I gave it the benefit of the doubt and was like "Well it is older than Berseria, maybe they had time to fix the problems zesteria had when berseria came out." But yeah if Zesteria was my first tales game....I...probably wouldn't be a tales fan, and i'm glad my depressed self impulse bought tales of berseria because Berseria good af.

@ciphymasterofmedia9104

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly this is the part where I bring up that having Zaveid be the foil to Sorey due to his past with Velvet and Eizen would've made much more sense and better than Rose. Dezel was alright but didn't serve as a good foil either. Rose was weak in character development. I played Zestiria all the way through and took on all the side content as well, beat the final boss powered up, only thing I skipped on was grinding vendor and inn levels for skits. Even did the Alisha dlc and didn't feel as satisfying as Berseria. I dont mind the characters much on their own but their influence on the story tends to aggravate me. Laila and Rose handhold Sorey all the time, not letting him make any of his own meaningful decisions and develop as a character, Mikleo was alright and his relation to Sorey made sense they may sometimes disagree but he honestly fell in line with Lailah. Edna didn't contribute much to the story. She was just there to be Sassy and had little development unless you went to fight Eizen. Rose has no development. Dezzel as alright. Actually has a character with good development and backstory but it's explained and revealed awfully where it seems the only way to have known anything about it was through skits at the inns. Zaveid is kinda one note in this game. He has his moments but ends up being a womanizer type character, not something that was part of his character in Berseria (thankfully) but it was annoying at times cause it would be all he talked about. Alisha was good though, they really did her wrong. As for Sorey? His character is held back by his frustratingly annoying party (mainly Lailah and Rose). If it weren't for them and we had better characters in the story like Alisha, his development would seem more natural.

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

@@ciphymasterofmedia9104 I'll give Lailah the benefit of the doubt because she was made to be a somewhat motherly type and it seems its her personality to try and baby and watch over and hand hold Sorey a bit. But yeah I didn't like that Rose was like NA IMMA KILL DW I'M BADASS, I'M SO COOL, I'M LE EPIC KILLER.

Just my 2 cents: when I played ToZ I knew nothing about this controversy, nor have I played the demo. However, at some point during my playthrough I started getting the impression that the game story suffered from a messy late term rewrite. The pacing was off, plus I kept finding items usable only by Alisha in the areas accessible only after she left the party. Even the physical toll she was taking on Sorey seemed to be introduced in a rushed manner. It felt to me like the decision to write her out of the story was made relatively late in the development, so it wasn't done very cleanly. This would also explain why the marketing material features her so prominently - a lot of it would've been made before the decision to reduce her involvement with the story. Of course, I don't have anything concrete to support this other than my gut feeling, so take it for what it's worth.

Okay, first of all: people *did* hate Dawn of the New World for what it did with the returning characters - but even then, they were at least all available for the final dungeon. Switching characters in and out of the party is one thing, making a character completely unavailable is another - especially because of point two, TALES IS AN ACTION RPG. Unlike Kratos/Zelos, Alisha uses a fighting style that no other character in the game uses (and, to be frank, being a fighter with lots of positioning moves in a game based heavily on positioning, one of the best fighting styles), but is barred from using one of the vital overcentralizing mechanics in the game, and if anyone likes playing as her the most they’ll be unable to play at their best for the entire rest of the game.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I didn't say people didn't have a problem with it in Dawn of the New World,, I was making the point that it didn't escalate to the controversy that occurred with Zestiria.

@AdeptArcanist

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai huh... I mean, i remember it being one of the driving forces that led to that game being almost universally reviled?

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Personally I don't remember that being a particular driving force, from my experience it was universally reviled simply for being an unnecessary sequel to a beloved game and even worse on top of that, a poorly made one at that. Even with that in mind however, absolutely nothing about it sparked a controversy on the level of Zestiria where death threats were being sent the producer, artist and voice actors.

Consider that, recently, Sakura Kakumei, the Sakura Wars gacha game that didn't even last a year, had Hideo Baba's involvement in it.

I was kinda alright with Alisha being temporary, but I didn’t like that the whole story keeps shitting on her and the people in the story constantly degrade her.

Characters leaving and joining your party for story in JRPGs reasons is fine. Zestiria very clearly is nothing like that. Alisha's role was obviously changed in the middle of development and there's a million things in game from text to equipment that suggest that already. Fully ignoring any marketing materials and taking the game as it is, her movement through the plot still looks inorganic as a result of those changes happening far too late into development.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

While I agree that the way her character was treated in the game was abnormal and COULD be a sign that it was due to a change decided mid-development, there simply isn't any concrete evidence to say the is truly the case. Also, what "million things" in the game suggest this exactly?

@Darkaran1

5 жыл бұрын

@@DanielSantosAnalysis Datamined spash art of armatus form for Alisha's armatus Mystic arte. It has the same design as Rose's. This suggest that Alysha was going to have armatus but the feature was moved to Rose, since they both have the same body type and share costumes. Also, Rose was the latest party member to be revealed. The fact that Alisha had armatus designed into her mystic arte splash art suggest that the Rose was created later and the armatus feature moved from one character to the other. This all fits the narrative of Alisha seeing her role size decreased during development in favor of Rose who was implemented into the game later. Given how big Rose's presence in the game is, makes sense the game was undercooked since if Rose was had her lines start recording just 1 year before development finished that meant deveopers had to redo 2/3 of the game in one year. Zestiria had 3 years of development time so that explains why polish wasn't up to par and the story wasn't as neatly tied up. I really find this explanation to the the actually simpler one. The team moved away from Alisha too far into development and the whole production sank. I don't know how the Baba conspiracy theory sits with this but, as the producer, he's the one pointing the milestones and budgeting everything. So Baba was OK with redoing most of the game in 1/3 of the time. We don't know why that is but in all honesty it sounds like a terrible call to make. Namco probably agrees with me since, as you pointed out in the video, he was moved away from Berseria development and let go shortly afte the first season of the Zestiria anime ended.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

@@Darkaran1 I haven't personally seen this art for Alisha's Armatus Mystic arte but lets assume it's true and that she was in fact planned to have it in the game, that still isn't enough to assume everything else you said. It could've been an early idea during development that was scrapped, it isn't enough to assume that the game was mostly complete and then completely overhauled for the sake of Rose's character. Is it possible? Yes, but at this point it's still conjecture based on circumstantial evidence, nothing concrete. Something I tried to stress in the video is to not make baseless assumptions because we don't know what happened. Trying to fill in the blanks like this only causes more misinformation as someone says one thing trying to make sense out of it and someone else takes it as the truth and spreads it around as fact instead of taking the time to think about where the information is coming from, is it credible and if there's any evidence to back it up. To be clear, It's fine to speculate as long as it is made evident that it is just that, speculation. It's not fine however to assert "this had to be what happened" because there's no way to know and there are plenty of possibilities as to what really went down So again, we don't know if a huge chunk of the game was reworked, we don't know if Baba was responsible for the change and we don't know if Namco fired him over the change. Until concrete evidence pops up, for all we know Rose's voice actress recorded her lines later because they had a hard time finding the right voice for her.

Personally, I do think that Alisa was handled pretty poorly. It's true that temporary party members is nothing new for the series. But at least most of the time, their departures usually are handled with some amount of tack or lasting importance. Alisa's departure, while I wouldn't say it came out of nowhere, the justification did feel rather weak to me. Especially when the issue of the strain on Sorey never really came up again after that point. Heck, the fact Alisa returns only to leave again feels like a bigger oddity if you consider that, story-wise, Sorey has gotten significantly stronger as a Shepherd at that point. But really, the game just had so many issues across the board: plot threads that went nowhere or got dropped completely, unbalanced or poorly implemented mechanics, various character/story inconsistencies, seemingly incomplete content, the list just goes on. Alisa's treatment, both outside and inside the game, was just one issue of many issues the game had. It just happened to get the most attention for one reason or another.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

As I mentioned in the video, I also felt the departure itself came across as cheap.I also agree the game has many more issues outside of Alisha and I am currently working on a video that goes into a lot of detail on what it did wrong.

@forestmanzpedia

6 жыл бұрын

I agree with you both.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoise_moon806 I meant it was cheap narratively, because the excuse given is that Alisha doesn't have enough resonance, they could've easily written it so that she does, but regardless of whether it was cheap or not, as I stated in the video, it does not justify the backlash in any way.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoise_moon806 No, it's not *just* that she had less resonance, it's that this was the narrative excuse given as to why Alisha left the party, because Alisha had less resonance, it put a physical strain on Sorey which forced her out of party and her leaving the party is what *actually* made fans mad. The excuse didnt help things because it came across as cheap and I'm saying this is narratively cheap because it could've easily been written so that she had enough resonance to stay in the party. It's fine if you disagree but I don't see why you're trying to argue with *me* about this when if you watched the video, the one that I made, you would understand that I'm not the one you should be trying to argue with.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoise_moon806 I think you're giving Alisha's departure from the party WAY too much narrative significance, I don't think anything in the story even remotely supports any of your claims. You're also being silly, just because I am saying it's a narrative excuse or that it's cheap is in no way also claiming that it's the only way to interpret these scenes, this is just how I interpret them and it's how a lot of people do aswell, you're free to disagree but they're valid ways to feel about these scenes. If anything you're the one that's angry that people don't like the story and honestly, you need chill and accept it rather than get into random arguments over it. Personally I don't think it's a good story, it's one of the weakest in a Tales game that I've seen, it's good that you enjoy it but you're not going to get anywhere by going around and forcing others to see it the way you do. Honestly I *am* upset because in the video I'm defending the developers and speaking out against the abuse, yet here you are arguing with me over the story. I don't understand your behavior.

I don't think that what happened to Alisha should be a point of controversy, but it absolutely is a strong point of criticism torwards the game. And I'm saying this as a Rose fanboy (she is hands down my favorite Tales character). People buy and play these games in large part due to the characters. I'd argue that the strong cast of relatable characters in each installment is this series strongest point. Both Alisha and Dezel got the short end of the stick in this entry. To my memory we really haven't had this happen to a character this bad since Leon in Destiny and Flynn in Vesperia. And Leon reappeared for a longer lasting role in Destiny 2, with Flynn also becoming a permanent party member in the ps3 version of Vesperia. Having characters mandatorally switch in and out of your party is a common aspect of jrpgs, but it is rare that the entire party does not eventually join together by the end of the game. And that is where Zestiria fails for me. Sure, this problem could be fixed if they ever release a "complete" version of the game, like many of the previous entries have received, but as it stands now, the handling of the characters just leaves many feeling unsatisfied. That's just my two cents. You are free to disagree with me on this. I'd be interested to know what you think, though.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I don't disagree that the handling of her character was poor. The main point of the video was simply to detail the controversy itself, why it happened and to point out how overblown it became.

@lennethebeauty

6 жыл бұрын

Apparently in the Zestiria X anime, Alisha eventually learns to armitize. So the anime pretty much tries to make up for the bad writing/ mistakes of the game. There was so much potential in Zestiria that just, well, fell flat.

@charlestonho6733

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah watch Zetiria X

@andrewtaylor940

5 жыл бұрын

zankudragon agreed. There is an expected rhythm to the party swap outs. They should happen for limited periods, generally in service to the story, while forcing a new challenge on the player by teaching them new party dynamics. By the end the player should be the one making choices for the bulk of the game. FF IX did this masterfully by using party splits. When a character left the party, you were still breaking away to continue their story. They didn’t just leave the players control. Zerestria failed in this regard.

@makotoyuki345

4 жыл бұрын

The Anime fixes Alisha yes, but... Have you SEEN how much they botched Sorey and Mikleo’s bond, ABSOLUTE TRASHED POTENTIAL

I quit playing the game shortly after she left. I already hated a lot of the characters and their boring interactions (I agree Edna is one of the gems), the plot was lackluster, and she was the only one I enjoyed playing as. Ripping my fave character from me was the last straw.

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

I personally thing Berseria was definitely better with their characters than Zestiria was.

@mohammeds7816

3 жыл бұрын

Waifu left party, virgin sad, virgin quit game virgin cry, virgin say bad words about game .

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohammeds7816 Okay but to be fair it was dumb how she was just ripped outta the party lmao

@mohammeds7816

3 жыл бұрын

@@lonerevenant0 it wasn't that dumb it's just people made it like it's something big and make the hame 10 times worse when in fact you could've enjoyed rose which a rlly good and loveable character

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

@@mohammeds7816 I'm going to be real the game wasn't even that good to begin with and had to be one of the worst Tales games that i've played (I've only played Berseria, vesperia, and zestiria) Personally Berseria was an improvement. I'm glad I got this game on sale when I did because if I bought it at full price I would've been mad, the only thing that made it better for me was Mikleo and Edna.

Honestly, I really hope that, one day, Bandai makes a Definitive Edition for Zestiria, where Alisha permanently joins the party entirely, perhaps near the end like Flynn in Vesperia DE. However, knowing Bandai, they likely won't.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

Highly doubtful

@luizeduardo1706

2 жыл бұрын

Zestiria is a dead game. Probably they could invest on the last EX Dungeon from Berseria to get a new game. But Zestiria never more.

The year is 2027. Square Enix releases the long awaited FF7 remake. And with it, they release hundreds of dollars of costume DLC, some of which are for Aerith a major character in the game. But wait! This character disappears 1/3(discs) into the game. How will the fans react?

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

LOL

@mendBOT

5 жыл бұрын

UNDERRATED COMMENT THERE! That's my feeling too.

@odudi

5 жыл бұрын

LMAO the rate that the game is taking to come out it does feel like it will come out in 2027. By that time alot of gamers who played it when it came out have died, in nurcing homes, or sitting in prison because the government made new laws that incriminated half the country. So most of the people playing the remake of FF7 will have no idea what tragity will befall Aeris/Aerith.

@mendBOT

5 жыл бұрын

@@odudi 2077*

@SoulEmbraceGAMING

4 жыл бұрын

*2020

Alisha... This game went from 100 to 0 real quick when she was removed from the game for the latter half of the game...

When Zestiria was revealed, the first two characters shown were Sorey and Alisha. They revealed figures for both of these characters, and there was also an Alisha cosplayer on the scene to further promote the event. JRPGs typically have a male and female lead, so these must be our hero and heroine right? And the first characters shown are always the lead protagonists, right? Well, according to the producer Hideo Baba, if you thought Alisha was the heroine then you made an incorrect assumption. That’s right folks, Alisha was never the heroine of the story and in fact, only a temporary party member for a small portion of the entire game. Despite being part of DLC costume sets, being the first female Sorey comes across, and the character responsible for initiating Sorey’s journey, she is not the heroine or a permanent party member. When fans expressed their outrage and confusion, Baba only responded with “We never said she was the heroine.” Then why was she one of the two revealed characters when Zestiria was announced? Why announce her at all, release a figure for her, and include her in DLC costume sets? This character received promotion and attention and fans were excited to play a lancer, of which there are very few of in the series. For Baba to say “we never said she was the heroine” is a mockery to all of the fans he misled up to this point. Namco will never come out and say it but what really happened was that there were last minute changes to the story that replaced the intended heroine Alisha with Rose. It turns out that Hideo Baba was smitten with Rose’s voice actress at the time, so much that he abused his authority as producer to shift focus onto Rose. This major change in heroines affected the rest of the storyline, and writers simply did not have enough time to rewrite the story to accommodate for this change. The end product resulted in an incoherent storyline that felt incomplete and full of holes. In an attempt to appease fans, Namco released a (temporarily) free DLC chapter focusing on Alisha after the events of the game. However, this does not change the fact that Alisha was shafted because of Baba’s personal interference so the DLC chapter did very little to please the fans. And Hideo Baba was never heard from again. This incident provides us with insight to the management responsible for calling the shots in the making of Tales games. These are people whose desire to create a Tales game are out of alignment with what fans want. Business perspective and economic thought cannot be applied to explain their behavior. The only difference between their games and fan made projects is that they are making the same garbage but within the company. Sure there are still fans that eat up everything that Namco serves them but nobody is asking for a Tales-themed cafe, a Tales of the Abyss musical, a letter from Richard to Asbel as a bundle exclusive, or an anime of a game that was just released. These are products that Namco is throwing out there because this is what they want to exist. It’s sad how Namco is mishandling the Tales series so badly. Aside from God Eater, they don’t have Go Shiina composing any music. They have a trademarked battle system that no other company can replicate. And there are so elements and quirks to the Tales games that cannot be found anywhere else. These wasted resources can be better spent giving fans what they actually want like…

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

The problem is a lot of this is complete conjecture, we don't know what happened behind the scenes and assuming things like Hideo Baba forcefully changed the story to give Rose a bigger role does nothing but perpetuate baseless rumors. Until we have concrete evidence of this actually being the case, trying to pass these rumors off as the truth only serves to further distort the discourse surrounding the controversy.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Do you have proof of this claim?

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the links and the honesty, the point of the video is to get people to try and understand this issue from a different perspective. I am tired of people coming up with rumors and passing it off as the truth. At the end of the day we don't and probably will never truly know what happened behind closed doors and while it's okay to speculate, it isn't okay to then take that speculation and convince people of things that can't possibly be proven. At most we can deduce that the production was troubled.

@brightlight8852

6 жыл бұрын

RiderWithTheScarf The reveal for Rose wasn't at all questionable. As other important characters were also released around the same time were Sorey's grandfather, Lunarre, the Scattered Bones and also Armatus. It should also be noted that the more information about the game was released Alisha was featured less and less. gallery.abyssalchronicles.com/thumbnails.php?album=612 Though as you can see this actually started happening after Mikleo was revealed. In the official guidebook the head writer explained that Zestiria wasn't meant to have a heroine at all because they intended to have no romance between Sorey and a female character. And the head director clarified that was really liked by some of the devs who insisted to keep her on and some even insisted to make her the heroine. Eventually, the head director bowed down to the pressure and had the head writer rewrite the story to make Alisha more prominent. But it quickly became apparent that Alisha didn't fit in (according to her character designer she wasn't designed to), as she had zero reason to travel with Sorey on top of duties that she should be attending to and can't if she's in the party(hence why even the anime doesn't ever give her any reason to join Sorey and why anime Sorey isn't allowed to speak of or even pursue his own goals). So they unanimously decided to keep her as a side character. Alisha sticking around simply went against the world building itself, by this point in time they had finished writing Berseria's plot. So it seems it seems that Alisha being pushed was actually a mistake on the part of the marketing team that might have originated from the clamour caused by some of the devs.

@Otoshi_Gami

6 жыл бұрын

@bright light if that was TRUE, then holy shit the devs should be ashamed of themselves for causing all the ruckus behind the zesteria debacle and Hideo BABA's Departure. now i feel bad for BABA as he is the most respectful of the TALES Series worldwide. i wonder how the Devs gonna push forward without BABA now that berseria has been released for like almost 2 years in japan? guess we had to wait and see. thanks for the info. now i am satisfied that has been lurking in my head for a very long time.

I played Zestiria and I was one of the fans who's jaw dropped the moment Alisha was dropped in the first act and Rose became the main heroine. It was out of nowhere and I was confused and thought Overall the design and appearance of Alisha was very much that of a main heroine and Rose, bless her soul, looks more mundane. Rose's appearance and hairstyle, even her costume is very NPC-ish, hell when Rose made her first appearance as a wandering merchant, I thought she was an NPC!!!! she just didnt stand out as much as Alisha. The developers really made Alisha look like the main heroine!!! They should have muted her colors and design a bit. Most people who play RPG knows a main heroine based on appearance and in this case, most of the artwork depicted Alisha back to back against Sorey, and we automatically assume she is the main heroine and possibly love interest. To be able to play the game and get the rug pulled from underneath us, well that was just a slap in the face. Ironically Star Wars The Last Jedi suffers from the same Rose problem, lol.

taking alisha out was really dumb if you ask me since i think she's more instresting. than rose. Her voice actress alexis tipton admitted she didn't like how they handled her. great vid shintai!!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I actually didn't know the voice actress said that, but I don't blame her for feeling that way. The character had potential but they didn't do anything with her. I am glad you liked the video!

@anakinskywalker4438

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, Alisha more interesting than Rose? How?

@SymphoniaYT

5 жыл бұрын

If you ask me, it was the right thing to do. She was a very plain character. Good concept, but extremely poor written. What a waste...

@shade8816

5 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654It doesn't help her case that the game storyline seems to go out of its way to screw with and belittle her. You met the hero and helped him on his journey? Turns out he was going to leave soon anyways and all you did was accelerate events slightly. You want to help stop a war to prevent casualties? Well too bad, your mere presence is enough to actually start it in full swing. You have an idealistic notion of the world and how you should be? Turns out your Senpai has been manipulating you from the start just so you can become a useable tool to bring the world into darkness. You want to help save the world? Sorry you aren't worthy of fighting alongside the main heroes 'cause you lack the magics. Oh, and your replacement is an assasin who has the magics and is suddenly the best thing that the group could have run into (I dont hate Rose, but her joining the party when she did just felt rushed). So you are going to be dropped in a very mediocre matter. You wanna know what's going on in the world and try to help? Sorry you shouldn't be 'burdened' with such knowledge. Then on a meta level shops keep selling her weapons and armor though she never comes back. Bloody teases. Now I'm not saying the game made her an amazing character by any stretch of the word, but it is annoying just how much of a bait-and-switch the game threw at us. Personally I was annoyed because I like spears/quarter staff weapons and I had worked to get use to her fighting style when she was taken out. Grrrrrr... I think what would have helped this mess was a better handling on her character. If she had been given a better exit, or at least show that she was doing awesome things on the side, or hell even finding ways to support the team in other methods people would have been fine. Instead she gets dropped out of the game and only has a minor relavence later on. Thoughts? PS: Fandoms are scary things and do scary things. X-x

@axionlightedge6108

5 жыл бұрын

Anakin Skywalker cause she struggles internally about her princess role and her mentor. ok not really

Most speculations in this controversy is just likely BS and people are simply outrage out of their mind. But as a gamer closer to Japan/east Asia community, I can provide couple more points just to add couple more details. First, recent Tales series did not receive good reviews from the fans at east Asia, such as ToX and X-2. So Baba's reputation started to go downward, then leads to ToZ's controversy. And the community here really does not feel bad that Baba step down. (A lot due to bad marketing and PR) Second, one of the core reasons for some core otaku fans believes the original plan for the main heroine of the story is that the voice actress of Alisha was along side Baba to promote the game in various events during the early stage of advertising the game. And later on the voice actress of Rose came in to take the role of being the representative of the cast. (Could be simply the production of the game take a turn or something, since traditionally producer will bring the most important/iconic voice actor/actress to the event) (Where came the BS theory that Baba like the voice actress of Rose...etc) Also, they promote the Alisha's PVC figure before the game came out and the maker put the "main heroin" in the description and got change shortly (could be just an mistake but add more fuels to the controversy)

Personally, while I get the reason why people were upset, I always thought the reason Alisha got cut was the same as Dezel. They weren't made by two core artists but rather by Daigo Okumura. He mainly created NPCs but he had designed main characters before typically for the spinoff and sequels for the series, DotNW and Xillia 2 being examples. With Zestiria, it was one of the first times he designed main characters for a non sequel/spin-off title. And by the time the game ended, both characters he designed were replaced. That's generally what I believe what happened. As for Hideo Baba, while probably considered a scapegoat, Tales of Zestiria was more of the final straw. While Xillia had sold well, under Baba, the Tales series had been on a bit of rollercoaster. The releases of Graces and Vesperia angering fans who purchased the game originally only to see superior PS3 ports a year later. The move to yearly releases and release of many spin off titles. And general reluctance to move from PS3 to PS4. At one point, the studio was in $20 million dollars of debt. All of this fell under Hideo Baba's reign. Zestiria's underperformance all around, including this bad PR over one character, was just too much. He was reassigned, officially called promotion, and would leave Namco shortly after.

I understand the part that some people didn't like Alisha leaving, I am one that loved her the most, her personality, voice and mechanics were my fav. And I for one really wanted Alisha to be permanent. Yet getting to the point of threats... Jeez, that's too much.

I think the biggest factor that really fan the flames of this is 2 fold. The mechanics of the game forcing over half of your party members unusable if you don't have sorey/rose in the battle which was pretty dumb on their part and a strong example of why you should never put story over gameplay. At the very least it should have been a way to unlock some feature that allows a way to ignore this rule. Second, it would have been fine if Alisha did leave for the story if they allowed the player to unlock her to use all the time in New Game+. In fact a lot of the game's issues could have been solved by making it a feature to unlock by beating the game.

I think you could have gone into more details about the controversy. The extremity of it is that Hideo Baba *really likes* Rose's VA, ncorporating several characteristics of her into Rose's character. I don't necessarily think it's a strong case to be made, but the casting couch and related relationships, are huge problems in the acting industry, and it adds fuel to the fire in these kinds of situations. I think the marketing and the writing team are to blame because they both set expectations that were not met for the game. The role Alisha plays is significant because she's the catalyst for Sorey to begin his journey. She should not have been marketed or written the way she was if she was going to walk out on the party early in the narrative. There also was an official profile of her at some point that described her as the heroine if I recall correctly (not a 3rd party reporter/magazine, though she was called that in 3rd party sources too).

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Everything I discussed in the video was something that could be backed up by evidence, so the reason I didn't go into detail about Hideo Baba liking Rose's VA is simply because there wasn't enough concrete information about it. If you feel I didn't go into enough detail, then that has more to do with the lack of trustworthy information on the topic.

@seph4707

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai I understand that, and I agree it's more likely writing and marketing problems, but I think it exploded as much as it did is primarily because of the allegation that those problems you mentioned stem from a relationship or interest in Rose's voice actress with at least circumstantial evidence behind it. I'm not saying it's right or that I agree, I just think that's the issue fans would find most infuriating if they were to believe it is true. It doesn't excuse death threats or anything that rediculous.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

While the whole "Hideo Baba really liking Rose's VA" thing didn't make things any better for the controversy, I don't think it was as influential as the other stuff I mentioned.

This was a bait and switch. People were supposed to get attached and already make her their waifu before the game so they could take her away. And people don't like that. That's not how we do things anymore because the feeling of missing someone is way too heavy. I'm sure it was intentional because there are write arounds and even clumsily written ones would have been ignored by fans. This was a deliberate decision.

Though I agree this controversy blew out of proportions, I don't think the origin of this mess would be something as simple as a "mistake". In every single ads, they did seem to go all out and made sure an Alisha fanbase is born. We got trailers, we got figures (apparently with a litteral mention "Main Heroine", but I'm not sure) and we even got girls cosplaying as Alisha during official presentations. If this was a mistake, there was absolutely no reason for them to not notice the problem here. As a sidenote, I am a game developer and I can tell you that everyone you work with has surprisingly keen eyes, even for little things like a missing dot at the end of a dialogue. So for something as enormous as the wrong character being featured ? I don't think they are that incompetent. After the incident, Baba has responded that they chose to present like that "so the players can chose who the heroine is"... That doesn't add up to me. If you really wanted the playerbase to choose their own heroine, the Game Design itself would have taken it into account. That would result in Alisha not being removed, in respect to those who picked her, but also they would add a lot more character to the existing girls (we all know how Japan works when they focus on female characters). It seemed to me like it was an improvised explanation just to have something to say about the controversy.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

I wasn't trying to imply incompetence, I was just trying to give an explanation that seemed reasonable to me at the time, but looking back, I definitely should've come up with something better than that.

Japanense fans seem to have some kind of love for death threats.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

That reminds me of when Japanese fans vandalized the Gainax building over the ending of Evangelion.

@civilwarfare101

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai That and there were apparently death threats for Hideo Kojima to make Metal Gear Solid 4.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I didn't know that, utterly ridiculous.

@civilwarfare101

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai It really is. There's thousands upon thousand of other ways to vent your frustration over a product.

@wangonn6601

6 жыл бұрын

like the game say killing can solve all the problem

I've been waiting for what felt like years for this video! Glad to see it out!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I hope it was worth the wait!

I think it’s different in Zestiria’s case because in all those other games, it’s just the party members switching in and out occasionally. But you know they’ll be back. For Alisha, she’s gone for most of and the rest of the game. You can’t use here again once she leaves that final time. It’s not like the other instances, where you know your full party will be together soon.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

This isn't really true? Even in Tales of Symphonia, when Kratos leaves the party he is gone for good, the only way to get him back is to go out of your way to get him back but then by doing so, Zelos leaves the party. Either way someone is gone for good.

@bababobo5067

3 жыл бұрын

Daniel Santos: Analytical Editorials Kratoa is replaced by Zelos, a character virtually identical to him in gameplay. Not to mention how Kratos is still important and shows up in the story a bunch. Plus, you said it yourself, you can get Kratos back. You can’t do that with Alisha. Once she leaves that final time, you can never use her ever again in the main game. And there isn’t even a replacement for her gameplay style. In Symphonia, it’s up to the player which character they choose to keep, and since they function the same gameplay wise, they only choose based on which character they like more. And no matter who they pick, the other character still has much screen time and served a big purpose in the story. Comparatively, Alisha isn’t around for long, and once you lose her, you lose her gameplay style.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

3 жыл бұрын

Kratos and Zelos are similiar but not identical, they have moves that are exclusive to them and they also have a different rhythm to their fighting style. While it is possible to keep Kratos, the way to do it is not made clear to the player, or even that it's possible, I doubt many people even know you can do this outside of hardcore fans that have replayed the game multiple times. You are right though that Alisha does not get a replacement that has her same moveset, but there are other games guilty of this aswell. Regardless the point I was making in the video was that it wasn't *just* that she leaves the party that got people mad, it was everything else surrounding that.

Devs were just idiots. They could have even gotten Alisha back into the party as a permanent character after Sorey got stronger. I'm sure that would have made everyone happy. There was even room on the menu screen for a 7th character portrait. The Anime made it happen, Alisha left for awhile, and came back to the party and was able to armatize. So what's the problem? One of the reasons I can't bring myself to finish ToZ is because Alisha is gone. Another is the terrible combat.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think it's fair to call the devs "idiots" when we don't understand what happened behind the scenes.

@Sogreth89

6 жыл бұрын

We don't need to know what happened. It just happened and now we have to deal with it. They obviously knew they messed up too, as they made that Alisha DLC, and the Anime as a "We're sorry". That's why it focuses so much on Alisha.

@Sogreth89

6 жыл бұрын

You can clearly see that the devs knew they messed up. They made the Alisha outfit for Rose as a start. Then the Alisha DLC. Then the Anime. All trying to make up for it. They made a terrible decision, and ToZ suffered because of it. I don't hate Rose either, I just like Alisha more, her character, and her stats/skills. It just baffles me that they didn't just add Alisha in later on permanently.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Yes we do because we don't understand why these things happened the way they did. We can say the outcome was bad because we can clearly see it had a negative affect on the game, but we don;t understand the specifics such as who is/are to blame or what could've caused for things to end up the way they did.

@Sogreth89

6 жыл бұрын

It was the devs, obviously. I highly doubt it was some type of "accident", they didn't just slip and say "Oops! Alisha is out of the party! Guess we keep it this way!". It really doesn't matter who is to blame for it. Until the devs come out and say who it actually was that caused it to happen, they will be blamed as a whole. They had the chance to fix it too. They could have added her in in a patch near end game, and have her stay with the party. But they didn't. Instead they tried to use these "Band-aids" to cover up their failure.

to me it was just that alisha was and still is a much stronger character then rose an I wanted more of her. much more

@CDodger24

5 жыл бұрын

what freaking tank and has a great exploration skill. you don't have to buy healing items and also get herbs when she's in the party.

I love Alisha and the tranquil-yet-decided attitude she has. The way she left the party left a sour taste that Rose couldnt replace since she is very different from Alisha's archetype. I would even dare to say that Rose comes out a little (just a little) bit of a Sue, as she coicidentially happens to have all of the requirements for being active in the party when is clear Alisha can't, despite not even understanding what those requirements are. Throw in how the storyline keeps looking down on Alisha over and over, and you see how dissapointing it gets to be 1-Her fan, and 2-mislead by the promotional content into believing she was a primary character, when she is actually a temporary, secondary one. Hopes where unfairly inflated and met with harsh dissapointment. This doesnt mean I think all the crazy things fans did were justified, just that there was a legitimate reason for disscomfort at the root of the issue. In any case, good video summary dude.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

As stated in the video, I think the disappointment is understandable and I even touch on how cheap and forced her excuse is to leave the party, but none of it should've lead to the intense backlash. Glad you liked the video!

To think alisha's departure created malevolence on the fans..

I know this is somewhat of an old video, but this is just straw manning the controversy. The main point of contention among people who were outraged is not *just* “I thought Alisha was the heroine when she wasn’t”. That’s only one of several reasons. The main point is actually that Rose and her natural resonance BS is very Mary Sue-like, and her “philosophy” is really shallow/contradictory in the Japanese script (idk about the localizations). Add this to the fact that Baba showed an affinity for Rose through many of his public appearances, at one point going so far as to say “she’s like me”, and add that on top of that the DLC/costume crap, and you really have to wonder why a much better character (Alisha) was seemingly thrown away a third of the way in a very shoddy way in favor of a Mary Sue that Baba seems to be in love with. If the game was a masterpiece outside of the story, then maybe it wouldn’t have been as big of a deal, but it wasn’t great either. There are a lot of other smaller story reasons, but it really all boils down to this: Rose is a Mary Sue, and one can’t help but wonder why Alisha gets dumped for her.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

I did not strawman anything, I was in the thick of it as the controversy was happening. People were not mad because they thought Rose was a mary sue, this is literally the first I've ever even heard anyone make this complaint. No, people were mad precisely because they felt duped into thinking Alisha was the main heroine when she wasn't. Hideo Baba having an affinity for her character doesn't suddenly prove that he single handedly altered the entire course of the game's development. That's a baseless assertion with flimsy circumstantial evidence supporting it.

@NightmareLudicolo

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Santos Well, I can’t help but feel like it’s straw manning when the nuance is missing. I understand it’s a little unfair to talk about something that largely happened in a language that (to my knowledge) you can’t read, but it’s absolutely essential to understand why people went so far as to send death threats (not defending it) and why they made an anime that massively retconned the story. There are entire articles on Nicovideo and Pixiv devoted to the controversy, and even an entire Wiki( here: www52.atwiki.jp/tozsougiwiki/ ). All 3 of them do indeed go over the DLC/costume controversy, but the bigger point that all of them make is 1.) How utterly poorly the game treats Alisha for seemingly no reason and 2.) Rose is a bad replacement for Alisha, being a shallow Mary Sue. Note how I never even insinuated that Baba did anything nefarious. My point in bringing up Baba’s tendency to talk about Rose favorably is that it’s so laughably tone-deaf for the producer of a game to talk about a Mary Sue in such favorable terms and say it’s like them. When the story makes it a habit of showering praise on Rose and what could be considered badmouthing Alisha (not sure if this is in localizations, as the points of contention are very specific lines) for what seems like no good reason, and then add on all the other controversies, it’s actually pretty reasonable, I think, why people would be unhappy. I don’t buy into the conspiracy at all; The Japanese side of the internet in particular has a strong tendency to blame everything and anything bad on directors/producers. But considering how utterly poorly the situation panned out, I think it’s safe to say that *something* was going on within development regarding Zestiria, particularly regarding Alisha and Rose. I have no idea what exactly it is that took place, but there’s enough things about the game that are just flat out unnecessary that one can’t help but wonder why everything surrounding it is so unnatural. Just look at the anime. Not only is Alisha actually relevant, but a lot of the focus/praise of Rose is also gone. Eizen’s fate, which was another main criticism of the game but totally unrelated to the controversy was changed as well. The game just falls flat on it’s face in so many ways, and the controversy was a reflection of that incompetency.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

What nuance exactly is lost? Granted I don't know Japanese so it's not possible for me to speak authoritatively on that side of things, if that's what you mean then I think that's an unfair standard to hold me to. Otherwise I think I presented everything in a fair and even handed fashion as far as everything that has been revealed in English. From that perspective, nothing was strawmanned and I presented as much nuance as what was made available in English. Admittedly you didn't insinuate that Baba did anything nefarious, that just so happens to be what everyone does, so I'll take that back. You keep saying Rose is a Mary Sue but we must have very different ideas of what a Mary Sue is because she certainly isn't one. A Mary Sue is an author self-insert with no flaws and is shielded by plot armor, among other things. I think that would be giving her character way too much credit, she's just a middling character at best. I can't speak for the Japanese version, but nothing in the English version (as far as I know) goes out of its way to criticize or demean Alisha's character. This isn't to defend her character as I don't particularly care for her, or the game for that matter as this is one of my least favorite entries in the series. The purpose of the video was simply to present the facts.

@NightmareLudicolo

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Santos I was too harsh in saying it was straw manning, and I apologize for that. I underestimated how much less of a big deal Rose is overseas. The problem is, Rose *is* that definition you gave. She has resonance on par with Sorey, the shepherd, because... she’s so psychotic as to have no remorse or doubt about killing people. *What?* and then in another part of the story she criticizes a priest for killing people he thought he was justified in killing, without realizing the total irony of Rose of all people criticizing him. The plot isn’t consistent about what creates malevolence, especially when it’s about Rose. The game is about Sorey trying to get Seraphs and humans to coexist, yet after Alisha leaves due to her lack of resonance and Sorey’s Seraphs try to convince Sorey to ask Rose to join the party, the Seraphs quote gramps and say that Rose is a “True friend” who can see the world as he does. Although this isn’t what was actually intended, it’s almost as if the Seraphs are insinuating that you’re not really worth their time if you don’t have enough resonance like Alisha. After she leaves, the game is just extremely indifferent towards her, and it’s just... why have her at all? This bungling of the plot is really what nailed the coffin for Japanese players, and it’s really important to understand the outrage. if it was only the DLC or only the shallow plot, it wouldn’t have blown up in the way that it did. It’s not an FFVII because FFVII is actually a good game with a good plot.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

Apology accepted. Wait, she has so much Resonance because she has no remorse when killing others? I don't know where you got that from, unless that was an explanation given in the Japanese version.. As far as I know, the game didn't really explain why she has so much resonance, it was just handwaved as a natural aptitude, which is admittedly a dumb excuse but not necessary one that makes her a Mary Sue, she's just a questionably written character. I don't think Rose really fits the definition I gav because, her significance in the plot isn't vital enough for her to be one. She's still just a side character in regards to the larger plot, Mary Sue type characters are often at the core of the story. What you described doesn't really strike me as "mistreating" Alisha, but as you said, indifference, which isn't the same thing, but that's just semantics.

The game suppose to celebrate the Tales 20th anniversary and they can't even get it right.

Nice video and I agree that death threats, ESPECIALLY to the voice actress of Rose of all things, were unnecessary. However, you did miss the main reason people were mad which WAS the DLC. Namco has a bad reputation for their DLC practices in Japan and it was the Alicia DLC that really caused this controversy. The theory I saw going around was that Alicia was marketed as the main girl to get people interested in her, and then they steal her out from under you and make you pay for DLC if you wanna see more of her. THAT was the "benefit" to removing Alicia from the party. So I see the theory of someone at Namco corporate doing this, but I dunno about Hideo Baba. If I recall, the backlash was so strong that Namco started giving away the DLC for free, but needless to say the damage was done. There is ALSO the fact that Alicia was the second character shown for the game after the main dude while Rose was almost never shown at all in promotional material. So that's another reason why people were shocked when she left. I know due to this, a lot of people LOATHE Rose and view her as a Mary Sue who just shows up out of nowhere and is instantly great at everything. Of course I have no opinion as I never got that far. I found Zestiria to be too slow and bland for me personally. But I DID follow the early controversy as it fascinated me to see such a strong negative reaction from Japanese fans. I also think it might have done some good along with the bad as sometimes people need to put their foot down on shady DLC practices. Also due to the nature of the combat as well as just how the Tales series IS, characters hold more weight and importance in Tales games than in other RPGs. If someone liked playing as Alicia, they'd feel very snubbed. Yes some other Tales games have constantly changing parties, but they also get crap for it. I just started Xillia 2 but after finding out about how the party is in that game? I'm quitting. That's just my two cents anyway.

@mfdoomguy3786

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 That makes it even worse. Twelve dollars for a sidestory where you get to play as Alisha again, but she can't armatize and is thus weak as shit compared to Rose Sue, AND it's ultimately a waste of time in terms of story. And if you preordered the game, you paid full price for the worst Tales yet!

@mfdoomguy3786

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 Alisha sucks too, sperg. The only good Zestiria girl was Lailah and that was more of a "would bang if I had to." In fact, it reached the point where I was just wishing Mikleo was in a better game. Also, Runkachunk is a horrible voice actor and it's depressing to see that, in your trying too hard, you call her "performance" as Edna good. And don't bother backpedalling and saying "b-b-but I played with Japanese voices" because we both know that's a lie. If you can't realize what Patty adds, as does playable Flynn to a lesser extent, I can guarantee you don't have the capacity to understand how Vesperia DE, which is ON THE SWITCH AND THUS PORTABLE HOLY CRAP, is a thousand times better than Zestiria. P.S. Life is not as black and white as you think it is. It's not a war between Zestiria fanatics and people who don't like kusoge. You'll grow up and cringe at yourself, and then you'll understand as you also realize your role in life.

@mfdoomguy3786

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 Can you keep your weird fart fetishes to yourself? Thanks. Anywho, aside from you backpedaling on your obsession with Vesperia; Troy Baker not participating in DE is indeed an embarrassment on Bamco USA's part... and that's why you should be sticking to Japanese voice acting instead of western shite. As for sales, it's sadly understandable. They've had Vesperia PS3 all this time, and I suppose the portability of the Switch isn't as useful to them as us, due to cultural differences. What can ya do. Anyway I'm just gonna skim your speech. I can tell you put emotion into it, so I won't tl;dr you. Wait, I just did, didn't I. Ah well. "Steam comments by Tales fans themselves who are "grossed out" on the haters' reaction to the pseudo-controversy" Do you refer to your fellow fujos, or people who played the Tales franchise before word-of-mouth spread about the yaoi? "Hideo Baba already explained that the advertisement the haters were all screaming about was an advertisement intended for Tales of Asteria, not Zestiria" Interesting, but I never brought up the advertisements to begin with. "Hideo Baba also need not apol;ogize for Rose being "unannounced" as NO GAME OR MOVIE IS LEGALLY REQUIRED TO INCLUDE SPOILERS IN ITS ADS" Well it's a good thing I didn't demand such a thing, huh. But to be fair, we live in an age where the most hyped-up AAA games are heavily spoiled by the producers themselves. See: Metal Gear Solid V and post-Sun/Moon Pokemon. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to be surprised by, you know, a plot twist. The quality of said plot twist is not being taken into account here, before you go on a soliloquy. "This is a big, fat lie, and the Vesperians who spread this should know the damage they caused." You're really taking this seriously, huh? "the disgruntled fans took it so far as to call Zestiria a "fake Tales game" even a month before its release in Japoan" Well it somehow played shittier than Tales of the Tempest, so that's not unreasonable. "Not liking an ending that doesn't ship Sorey x Alisha is NOT A SCAM." Ohh, I see. Yeah, I guessed from the Mikleo avatar, but I see you're a really emotionally invested yaoi fan. That's okay, but you'll have to be taken less seriously as a result. "Why do they need to harass a Zestiria defender like me for 4 years just because they hate this game?" Yaoi fan with a persecution complex, got it. "That kind of fan obsession is not only CRINGY but SCARY ABNORMAL. " Yaoi fan with a perscution complex and lack of self-awareness, got it. "The accusations are too malicious and hateful for an issue that's petty..." If you didn't get excited about this, it wouldn't hurt your feelings. Take a deep breath. Are you okay? Did you take your pills?

I honestly couldn’t care less, Zesteria was trash. Everything about that game was a disappointment, even Edna couldn’t save that game. It was a bad game, but that does not excuse the moronic response of the fans.

Man... I didn't know about the threats. I won't lie, I never liked Rose's character since she felt very shallow and was too much of an exception to obvious rules that were stated in the game. But there's problems that I have with the rules of the game as well, most being that one can't raise or hone their Resonance. I felt like that would have been a better option, even still adding in Rose as a party member, rather than removing Alisha entirely. I won't say that it would have made the game better, I just feel like some of the things they did in the game were kind of... sloppy sometimes. Tales of Berseria was a significant improvement by contrast and part of me would have liked it if Berseria had come first in release so they could have learned from it and had it set things up for Zestiria perfectly but... well, here we are. On a completely separate issue... would it kill them to release Xillia 1 and 2 on Steam...?

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

They should put EVERY Tales game on Steam.

@argensomnium6492

6 жыл бұрын

Agreed completely...! Fully translated too!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I've been waiting so many years to be play Tales of Rebirth in English.

@argensomnium6492

6 жыл бұрын

Same. And I wanted to play Tales of Destiny for the PS2 translated into English but that ship sunk.

I actually think Alisha's reasoning for leaving is very interesting and well done. It puts a lot of works towards Sorey's character and, since this is since within the beginning of the game, helps the player learn more about how Sorey is as a person and, as a result, grow attached to his character. We also learn more about Alisha herself, which helps when you consider that she does in fact show up multiple times throughout the game. However, in the end, the point of Alisha was to show whats its like for humans within the Tales of Zesteria world. Alisha is the game's only connection to the human world, seeing as how every other main character is either a seraphim or spent their life away from humans (Sorey lived wirh seraphim his whole life and Rose is an assassin.) Through Alisha, the princess trying to save her people, the player gains a reason to care whether the humans live or die and, subsequently, become the Shepard or not. Alisha does what she is needed for then moves on with her appearance, disappearance, and everything in between working towards developing Sorey and the player's bond towards him and those you must save as Sorey.

I played this game one 1.5 year ago, knowing absolutely nothing of it. I instantly liked Alisha's character and quite honestly, at first, when they start talking about her leaving, I really thought it was temporary- but not in the way they did it. They didn't do a 'temporary' switch, they completely fucked up with her, really. Not because leaving the party was bad per se, that could be very well done if excuted.......well. Which it wasn't, at fucking all. It's not like we could actually see what was happening in the political side of things, it's not like they actually focused on her side either, and I'm saying all this while also disagreeing 100 % with the concept of Sorey and Alisha as a couple. They could be male and female protags WITHOUT being a couple, and it could have been so awesome. The fact that they said Alisha is the one who 'presents' the hero to his journey would be good and all, if it weren't for the fact that as soon as she left, plot started to make less and less sense, and with the addition of Rose, it was almost awkward tbh. They basically force you to like Rose, to see how amazing and much better than Alisha she is, they almost outright say this despite being 'sad' that Alisha wasn't with them and all of it just felt so....... shitty. But it could have been so good if instead of making Rose into a chara we HAD to like (and I like her, hell, she's my 3rd favourite, but still), they made her into an actual being with flaws instead of this weird... thing that basically was unaffected by the world's law. Rose is a perfect character to get Rokurou's treatment tbh, while retaining her good side as well. Of course, this doesn't mean those threats and reactions were good at all, nothing gives an excuse for that, especially not a fucking game. But anyone with a semi-objective sense of writing should be able to accept this was a complete mess and was handled even worse when they realized they fucked up. The DLC was a disaster (and it could have been so good, again...), anime was good for part 1, then meh, but at least both her character and her relationship with Rose was actually developed as it should have and not just 'girly slaps'. Overall a good video, what happened to Alisha is a really pity and all the content released for her after that shows this, even in mobage Tales of the Rays, they're fully aware of their fuck up, but will simply never say it out loud. Which is still not an excuse for people to make death threats of any kind.

@Sheevlord

4 жыл бұрын

This is pretty similar to how I felt when I played it. I had a strong feeling that there was a messy rewrite late into the development. The part of the game after Alisha leaves the party has poor pacing, the game starts taking exposition dumps onto the player, and the overall quality of writing takes a noticeable dip. It's as if the decision to write ALisha out of the game was made pretty late, and they had little time to do it properly. This would also explain why the promotional material features Alisha so prominently.

@SnowxXxAngel

3 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by Rokurou's treatment???

@travonarmstrong6093

2 жыл бұрын

@@SnowxXxAngel I know that this is an old comment, but I think what they mean by "Rokurou's treatment" is that Rose could've been turned into a hellion while still retaining enough of her individuality to be a party member. This would explain why Rose is strong enough to keep up with the rest of the party, as well as potentially exploring Rose's character flaws that turned her into a hellion in the first place, giving her a more dynamic character rather than the game forcing you to like her. This could tie into the other rewrite idea of Alisha already having/developing enough Resonance in order to Armatize, since Rose being a hellion frees up two Seraphim that Alisha can use.

@SnowxXxAngel

2 жыл бұрын

@@travonarmstrong6093 Ah. Though, the fact that she WAS human, was interesting as well, as it was seen with the bad guys in Berseria that were still human; Believing in your path, to your convictions, even when others would judge you or say you are in the wrong... How she has no malevolence in her because of her belief that the world needs someone to do the job she does. In Berseria, the bad guys, or at least the organization you fight against mainly, is led by people that whole-heartedly believed that they were doing the right thing, even though stripping people of their emotions and whatnot is definitely not okay in any way, shape or form, shows the dark side of this. Rose was like the opposite side of the spectrum in a way. Also, if Rose was a helion, she wouldn't have been able to armatize with the seraphim in the party, and that would have kinda sucked.... since it was a nice feature in my opinion XD

but hey at least Alisha got a big part in the anime adaptation even if it had it issues like pacing and stuff cut out but regarless i liked the anime adaptation a little more than the game

I’m glad they learned their lesson with Berseria

@christianalbertjahns2577

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 I've played Zestiria about three hours and compared with my experience with Berseria after three hours of gameplay, I can say that Berseria is better in almost every aspect (exceptions are story, which I can't really compare after just three hours gameplay, aesthetics, which is kinda incomparable, given the very different tone in both series, and some things I don't pay attention at) Sure Berseria development was started before Zestiria was released (so the argument of the "the devs listened to the feedback" is not completely right but I won't say it's completely wrong either) but I have to agree with many people that Berseria is just better than Zestiria. I can elaborate my point furthet if you want.

@christianalbertjahns2577

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 who is Daniel Santos? I don't even understand why you are even bringing him in the first place.

@christianalbertjahns2577

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 and what is this "threats". Dude really we are just comparing game with game. Why do you even need threats?

@christianalbertjahns2577

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 I'm about to say good things about Zestiria (for example: Ladylake is beautiful, Mikleo is a fine character, Alisha is interesting, etc.) but then you spewed those nonsensical and unnecesary rant. Calm down, dude.

@christianalbertjahns2577

3 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 err okay he's the video owner but.... Why tf do he even need to block you just because you defend Zesty? And actually you already put your own defense, regardless whether it's actually coherent with the topic or not. Edit : nvm I don't see the "spamming" part but looking at your reply to my comment, his response to threaten to block you is 100% understandable. Dude you don't defend Zestiria with that kind of reply. You only make yourself look worse in pretty much everyone's sight.

My only gripe was the fact that Alisha- A spear user with her own moveset got replaced by Rose A dual dagger user with a really different moveset (Why couldn't we have both?), if she was replaced by another spear user it would have been better we had a character switch in Zestiria and it didn't feel so wrong

I remember when Kratos left in Symphonia. He was my main so I was pissed but then they gave us the glory that was Zelos lol I swap off each run now

@megamike15

Жыл бұрын

i think the difference here is he is still involved in the narrative and was in the party way longer then she was.

It's likely that the otaku that caused this whole mess weren't even actually Tales fans at all. You see Alisha's Japanese VA Kayano Ai is a fairly popular up and coming idol. And her fans are of the rather obsessive variety, that are known for their love of sending death threats if they feel slighted or "in defense" of their idol. It's likely that they don't even really like Alisha at all considering they don't like to spend money on her.

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

ugh idol worshippers are so gross...

Oh trust me, no amount of Alisha screen time could have saved this game. It. Was. Terrible

I finished this game a few weeks ago but played Berseria first. My problems are is that the gameplay of Zestiria becomes a chore although I like the music and the characters. What I find strange is that you can buy items for Alisha, although she is not playable anymore, and I never liked the idea leaving the party forever. The battles are a chore and the game mechanics are boring. I prefer Berseria than this game. So glad I picked Zestiria only for 20 bucks and never bought any DLC.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

I agree, combat becomes a slog after awhile.

@forestmanzpedia

6 жыл бұрын

To the plot: It feels like there are so many holes. Unfortunately, I have to say that the blame is full on the story writers, because the story writers had the time to check everything but they didn't. They either wasted their potential or something went off. This is probably why the plot from Tales of Berseria is well thought, because they probably made sure it's perfect. Not only the plot, but also the gameplay. It seems like they knew what they did wrong. And I think it's important to check the written story on every corner making sure it's well balanced. But we are humans. Making mistakes is not a big deal, because mistakes lecture us anyway so we make something better out of it. This is why I love people. Once they did something wrong and realize it, they make a huge improvement.

@JonborgVA

5 жыл бұрын

Same honestly I think if I didn't play Berseria first Id probably hate it

@forestmanzpedia

5 жыл бұрын

@@DrustVG I think Tales of Berseria really hit the nail with the badass story telling of a young girl who lost her innocence, became completely insane afterwards, wanted just revenge but became later self-aware what she is doing wrong and what she can do right. The story tellers combined love with total madness and sociopathy. And the gameplay is so awesome, you just enjoy fights with that hyped music in the background. Tales of Zestiria has none. It has so many inconsistencies, whereas Berseria none. I mean, if you played Berseria first and then Zestiria, you will notice right away that the developers were self-aware what they did wrong. Coincidentally, Velvet is based on my fictional character I created back in 2013 and shockingly, both have many similarities, even the apperance. This is exactly why I enjoyed Tales of Berseria so much.

Actually... it's not the first time something like that happened in "tales of" series... Actually there's Chester in Tales of Phantasia, whom You have in party just for the beggining of the game. SPOILER ALERT!!! He returns just before you time-travel to the future where you defeat Dhaos. So... yeah, he's missing for around 2/3 of the game. PS: I think that it's not the only case of character disappearing for most of the game in this series.

What bothers me the most is how disrespectful the game treats Alisha after her departure and praises Rose to high Heaven. Also the whole weak resonance thing is just kind of stupid, when there’s an actual, very good reason for Alisha to leave the party that the game just ignores: Sorey, as the shepherd, is supposed to be a neutral force. Gallivanting around with the princess of Hyland wouldn’t exactly do him any favors once he arrives in Rolance. I think a compromise would’ve been to have Alisha be the main companion throughout Hyland, and have Rose be the companion throughout Rolance, and then after that have them both available and relevant to the story.

Wow I’m gonna love this fandom, but no honestly this was ridiculous hopefully this never happens again when the next game comes out

I can tell you why to most people including myself it is a controversy. Look at it from this perspective RPGs are like reading books. You have the main characters of the story the Shepherd Sorey and his Squire Alisha through the first part of the story in which people became attached too both characters. Than you remove one of the main characters only to replace her with the Squire Rose. The problem with this the Player has no attachment with Rose which leaves the Player disappointed in the direction the story went as such no fault to Rose she seems to the Player as a pointless replacement character for Alisha in the story. Preference set aside for which of the two characters the Player liked better either Alisha or Rose. As it is most people are going to like Alisha better than Rose because the Player becomes attached to Alisha first in the story. So how the story should have went Alisha leaves the party than Rose joins the party then latter on in the story Alisha returns too the party as such Sorey confronts the final boss with two Squires both capable of armatization. Instead of being regarded as one of the worst of the Tales series it would had been no doubt one of the best. I know they do this in the anime but at this point I would have to say too little too late.

Just imagine u play ff7 and after midgard arc tifa left the party and nearly in the end of game she came back just for 1 fight and left again

At least we can all appreciate that the at the very least the anime gave her allot more screen time and even dedicated its anime original prologue episode to her

I mean Alisha got asched/flynned. Its normal for tales. I never liked characters being screwed over by that. But that was ridiculous. Although I think they screwed themselves over with the costume dlc and story dlc. Tho fans should've never acted like that. A character like Alisha has been done before with flynn and asch as I said before. Now looking at it Flynn and Asch were promoted more than Alisha imo. So it makes it even more ridiculous.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

To be fair both Flynn and Asch are rival-type characters so it makes sense for them to be promoted and for there not to be any backlash as a result. When you play both games it makes sense as to why they wouldn't join the party, or at least not become permanent members. Alisha on the other hand was framed specifically as a key party member when that isn't the case in the game.

@MichaelofWaves

6 жыл бұрын

Shintai yeah you're right but I don't think it wasn't anything TOO out of the ordinary. Either way this was blown away.

@HaxeRain

5 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelofWaves It made lots of sense as to why asch or flynn didnt join, they were handled a lot better too, alisha was promoted a lot as part of the main party line, only to end up in odd situations, being put off by a lot of the game off the party, then to come back for a little while and leave again, while you had this big amounts of items made for her, just to be wasted, its not uncommon to have party switches or lose permanently party members, but not handled this poorly, take for example FF4, with the old man that helps you a lot alongside the twins, you spend a nice time with them until you lose the 3 of them, or with the summoner girl (forgot the og names as i tend to change them) that you get during first third that leaves to join later permanently, its too odd for alisha, and thats only one of the many problems zestiria had, the gameplay was a chore, its something that makes you laugh when trying to 100% it as its an abominable drag

I saw Alisha Diphda as the next Chloe Valens. I loved Chloe, she was the only Legendia character to stand as Senel Coolidge's equal and slap him around for being an idiot. I thought Alisha would be gentler about it but ultimately be the same kind of stabilizing influence on Sorey throughout the story. Nope, instead they decided to make the most jarring story choice possible. To shoehorn in a side-note character and give her priority. The result made me actually hate Zestiria, I gave it a chance, I give any Tales title I can an honest chance but Rose made me gag in a way that only Asch before her could... All this aside, I will end only with this. Make a controversy of it, go for it, it's one of the only ways Bandai-Namco is gonna hear what fans have to say about story-bullshit like footnote Rose replacing Chloe-esque Alisha. But sending death-threats is crossing a line that should never be crossed.

I never knew this happened, but I do feel the fans were cheated. Plain and simple. That said the JP fans took things too far. Sending death threats to the va and the staff is just despicable imo.

Personally I think the only reason this had any traction was because Zestiria wasn't very good. If the game was great would people be so quick to pick at something so minor? Probably not.

Personally I was a little disappointed when she left the party for good only because she was the most fun character to play with but other than that I didn't go crazy about it.

Also, I gotta respectfully disagree regarding Edna being the best character. She's easily the funniest character in the game, and arguably the most likeable too, but she has zero plot-relevance. She could pretty much be removed and nothing would have changed. The fact that the only time she ever goes through any sort of character development is through a quick sidequest during the final hours of the game doesn't help matters. I'd say Zaveid and Alisha are overall better.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Well for one, I don't think character development automatically makes a character good or better, it can but not necessarily so. As for her plot relevance, sure you could argue that but I don't think that takes away from how enjoyable of a character she is.

Yeah, this was a really good video on a very interesting topic. Thanks for putting this together. Great idea as well.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Good to hear a non-fan of the series still found it interesting.

@RadDadRedemption

6 жыл бұрын

Well I am a fan of Tales, just not an expert! So this was great to listen to.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Oh my bad! I didn't realize you were a fan.

Thing is, Alisha left abruptly and Rose barged in the party. Like, there's no time to actually to know more about the character since main heroines usually go with you either right from the start or in Chapter 1 of the game. Alisha did and Rose didn't. That's why I was confused on why the latter was the main heroine of the game. Alisha had more character potential development because, as mentioned, she didn't have resonance to see seraphs and helios that she needed Sorey's help. It would've been a better development if when she became a Squire, she slowly but surely began developing resonance while partying with Sorey. I mean, he is the Shepherd, and Alisha would've been a good subject for Sorey to be the Shepherd that he is supposed to be.

I did like Alisha better, even bought the figure of her. But her departure didn't stop me from playing the game or altered my opinion of it. Besides, Alisha fans have the anime as a solid alternative that still gets all the same points across despite its vast differences. I like the anime better, though I don't think either version of Zesteria come close to being the best Tales entries in the franchise.

@wangonn6601

5 жыл бұрын

Wish the anime is all about Alisha

I hated Rose. So Alisha leaving was rough for me. Just bleh. Bad trade off. Her and Dezel never meshed for me. But that aside, none of that or any of the issues presented will ever excuse that kind of awful behavior. Come on tales fans,be better than this?

It was done to sell the DLC, so it was done out of pure greed.

Hmmm... Let's look at something in a unique perspective for a second because this outrage is dumb. Let's say FF7 released today (FF7 spoiler incoming.) In the online store you can buy costumes for all the main characters... except aerith. Would this not in some fashion give up the fact that plot details will force her from the main story at some point? So what's the alternative? You sell cosmetics for her that either can or cannot be transferred, or you lock cosmetic DLC until a second playthrough. Either way people will be mad. People need to try a little harder to understand the context of decisions before they get angry about it. Great video!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's a good point. In the end people would've been mad regardless. =/

@RaidenKaiser

5 жыл бұрын

Oh there is petty controversy coming for FF7 the remake is going through the guy who directed kingdom hearts which means more emo cloud and people are gonna rave mad about it.

@MoakS11

5 жыл бұрын

Or you DON'T sell character outfit and to like in older Tales game and you only unlock costume in game? So that no-one feel shortchanged by buying something that didn't has use for as long as expected? Or simply allow a way to make her come back (expecially how it IS what happen in the DLC)? She isn't the only character that "disappears" in Zestiria... but I don't see people complaining about Dazel

@imperiousimmortal8888

5 жыл бұрын

@Tarks Gauntlet there is already outraged / controversy with a final fantasy 7 remake. apparently the person doing the kingdom hearts game is going to be doing the final fantasy 7 remake which means even more emo cloud

2:00 So in the artwork, it would be fine if they switched alisha's position with mikleo.. lol. but who knew what would happen. Love Alisha's design and her personality though, she is fit to be the main heroine indeed.

Reading the comment, it feels like I’m one of the few people who liked the game :/

@missconcombremasque

5 жыл бұрын

I liked it too. I have a few problems with it, but doesn't that happen for almost every game ? But wel, I'm not a gameplay nitpicker at all. So most of what people say about moves and fights only make me frown like "oh, I didn't notice this, totally not a problem". As for Alisha. Well. The party woud have been so... Erm, I feel it would have been a bit too calm with her. Dynamics and all.

@unbothered5240

5 жыл бұрын

You literally are on of few. The game didn't do well across the board. Even hardcore fans have said it was absolutely trash in comparison to others, and sadly berseria somehow managed to outshine it with fans even though it was meant to help Zes make sense.

@unbothered5240

5 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 I can assure you as much as you're out here trying to defend a game you like, it's not half as amazing as you are trying to crack it up to be. The majority of hardcore tales fans did not like it. The DLC furthered that by its sales...or lack thereof. Compared to previous titles, it was just not a hit with fans. That's the blatant truth. However it did do well in overall sales BECAUSE of the controversy. It hit like really close to a million when to hate storm started. It's clear they did something very wrong stroy wise with Alisha...and something definitely happened but we can only tall about the final product which felt incomplete and dented with weird plot holes and logic holes. It didnt make the game unplayable but the replay value was definitely closer to nonexistent because of the weirdness from the game. That being said Edna Mikleo Zaveid... these are probably 3 of the coolest cast characters in tales history between looks and personality... so for this game to not have been a hit with fans says something as well. You say the hate is the loud minority and sure in most cases it is... but in this instance its the majority. Personally I thought Zes felt like a part 1 game...and thought the dlc was the finished half so even I was a bit saddened. But I'll say this much... Vesperias sales and hype amidst the VA controversy also should prove a point. Something is definitely going on behind scenes, and it is causing weird moves for this series... and that's coming from a vesperia super fan who dropped 100 hours 109 hours after release of the game. Zestiria was just a notable moment, it's not the end all be all.

@unbothered5240

5 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 Your point went out the window at about paragraph 2. Stay on topic. Most Vesperia fans dislike Zestiria because for all the parallels they tried to make in the story development and character relatability.... Zes kept falling short. The seraphs are without a doubt some of the most popular characters for 2 reasons. They are a super fine blend of what you'd expect from Tales AND final fantasy. So both fan bases really got to enjoy those characters and create a unique bond to them compared to other side cast. Something we've only really seen done in Abyss, Vesperia, and Arguably Legendia/Symphonia. Mikleo is a popular body type and personality type currently as people are over the fan service sex appeal type males with buff bodies. They like the submissive yet outwardly strong personality. (Very Sasuke-esque) That has nothing to do with the game itself though. The characters weren't really an issue which is my point. They all were very VERY decent... so it's absolutely no wonder why people are and were so let down by the game when its story tanked. Japan fans will also tell you Zestiria wasnt well received as repayable. Not nearly as much as even berseria which did pretty eh in sales too. That all being said, yes. The majority do not like Zestiria as it is... tolerated for the title and support of the series...sure. but as an entry...no. It didn't deliver like it was expected or known to be able to do. That's on nam, and the director. Because the character and story idea alone should've been very popular with all entry fans it was a nice blend.

@unbothered5240

5 жыл бұрын

@@turquoisemoon3654 I dunno if your insane bias is just making you dense. But what I said was the fact Zestiria and Vesperia had such close parallels you'd expect the Vesperia fans to have liked it... but it fell short to even them. Which means other entry fans definitely weren't gonna be on board. You're so busy trying to play elitist victim you can't even keep accuracy up... The. Game. Did. Not. Do. Well. If it did, there wouldn't be the reaction you see, to the extent the company saw. There's very few that love Zestiria.. very few. Most just enjoy the series and glossed it as a fail. No more, no less. This excuse that Zestiria lovers are just being silent... is just that.. an excuse. That's all.

Personally, I think the best compromise would have been either give the player a choice in who's in the final party, like Kratos and Zelos with Symphonia or a costume that turns Rose into Alisha and lets the player use her again without it affecting the story at all, like in Graces F with Richard or Destiny DC with Leon. I realize that there's more to it with the dolls, but that would have a been a simpler solution.

@brightlight8852

6 жыл бұрын

AzurknightOMEGA The problem was it did effect the story. Remember the whole reason why Sorey was forced to fight the war wss because Alisha was used against him. Not to mention Alisha is the princess of an enemy nation during a time of war. Because most if the game takes place in Rolance, her presence would have caused more harm than good.

@wangonn6601

5 жыл бұрын

Because the Writer don't know how to write the story

Legend of Dragoon's demo gave your 3 characters their dragoon spirits which you don't normally get in at that point. It's common for demos to do similar things. The logic of differences between demo and game meaning the game was originally gonna be like the demo is extremely flawed.

Controversy in the gaming community has a chain reaction to where all logic tends to go out the window, unfortunately. It doesn't help that most people can't seem to think for themselves anymore either. While I would have liked to see more of Alisha, this was barely an issue for me, compared to my other gripes.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Hah, yeah, the game has many more pressing issues than Alisha's departure.

Sorry to beat a dead horse but, I totally agree with you. To this day I think Namco really shit the bed with even having dlc costumes for Alisha. Sure, the costumes transfer over the Rose but the costumes were p much advertised for Alisha coupled with all the promo images of the main cast - it just would not be received well by anyone. Not to mention the rub-salt-in-the-wound move of actually charging people for that AWFUL Alisha dlc chapter (which really, REALLY should've been free, but that's another story). Edit : After getting to the end of the video I'm heartbroken. While I was aware of the backlash when it first happened, I had no idea Hideo Baba and Rose's VA got death threats. Hell, I didn't put Hideo Baba's departure and the backlash possibly being related till just now. Call me crazy, but Berseria was the last Tales game we got back in 2017. Since then we've had 2 mobile Tales titles with that one next gen Tales of Arise JUST announced last year. Just seeing Namco steer the Tales series into the direction of just another JRPG franchise making nostalgia bucks off of gacha game microtransactions for 3-4 years without a peep about a new Tales game, I can only imagine how much sway Hideo Baba had as a longtime producer of the franchise. While the Vesperia Remaster was definitely a step in the right direction, I can only wait nervously as to how Tales of Arise turns out seeing as one of the franchise's biggest players left.

So years late. But I gotta say... The only reason this upset me is because I really liked Alisha's gameplay and character a lot.... I love Rose as a character, but not her gameplay. Though we all know Edna was the star of the show. :P (and i so missed Edna's teasing of Aisha :

you didn't really apply occam's razor right, the most likely and simple reason is not a mistake in communication, they probably just wanted a plot twist like madoka's (percieved) one. those kind of twists are appreciated by enough people that there's no doubt that many creators would want to do them.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

I am gonna have to disagree, first off, what you're describing isn't even a plot twist, secondly, my use of occam's razor was more specifically to point out that the idea that the decision was made maliciously doesn't make any sense.

As someone who loves Alisha and Rose (in main game the dlc ruined Rose for me with how she treated Alisha which just seemed out of nowhere.) Both had their parts and always thought that Alisha could develop with Rosa. Especially sense Rose became the Shepherd in the time Sorey slept it would only make sense the first squire wouod have the chance to develop into a full squire for Rose especially with how much she helped Sorey in her position with what she could do. Like I understand that she couldn't arrmortize but it never said a person can't grow into that maybe Alisha's resolve would give her enough resianace. (Not sure i spelled that correctly)

Hideo Baba will probably dedicate himself to director duties again as he used to before Tales of Vesperia. That was his original call to fame and honestly the position he has handled the best.

@brightlight8852

6 жыл бұрын

LeonGun8 Baba left Bamco, which might explain why they dialed back on the Western Tales mobile games.

@LeonGun8

6 жыл бұрын

He was hired by Square-Enix actually to lead his own studio. A Personal studio is always a tempting offer. Though yes, I'm guessing the new games will have a different approach with a new creative producer at the helm. Have they actually named one now that Rays is officially over?

@brightlight8852

6 жыл бұрын

LeonGun8 Rays isn't over in Japan, Bamco simply just cut off the global server. Rays just entered its second story arc in Japan. In fact the Japanese servers have been doing exceptionally well.

@LeonGun8

6 жыл бұрын

Sadly IMO. I can't ever understand the love for mobile gaming... and that's without getting into Japan's obsession with gacha gaming (which Rays is thankfully not embracing strangely enough).

@brightlight8852

6 жыл бұрын

LeonGun8 Yeah, Rays is pretty damn generous all things considered in that it's not really a gatcha game. In fact, I think that they really make most of their money off of the optional outfits, that you can purchase for the characters and stamina. It really is a mobile Tales game.

i've feel like the thing that grind people off was the fact they make alisha a DLC content the fact that you have to pay just to see more of her is kinda upsetting also damn im really in an 3 year old video

@DanielSantosAnalysis

2 жыл бұрын

The DLC stuff they tried to pull regarding Alisha felt like they were really lacking self awareness.

I didn’t even know this was a big controversy until now but this is interesting

Thanks for this clarification video! I had seen so many completely off-the-walls conspiratorial things about the Alisha stuff before this video. Of course, before I ever finished the game, I was grumpy about the Alisha situation simply because I really liked her (even if she is fairly basic a character) and preferred her so much over Rose. The game very thinly veils "replacing" Alisha with Rose, and my dislike of Rose made the loss of Alisha feel even more frustrating. Rose's affinity with spirits felt like a poor excuse to get rid of a more likable character for me. There are like...two or so scenes in the whole game that I enjoyed with Rose, and Rose's solution in the scene with Sorey, Rose, and the Medusa kinda "robbed" Sorey of having any "personal trial" of his convictions and earned right to be the Shepherd outside of sheer birthright. Then there's that optional side quest boss fight against Rose and Zaveid on a bridge, and it's one of the most infuriating fights in the entire game. Long story short, it seemed like the game went out of its way to make me dislike Rose while showing me an alternative character whom I liked so much more. Alisha was simple, but she had a brand of "sweet stoicism" that I preferred to Rose who grated on my nerves throughout the game.

Well I wasn't a fan of Rose and I did really like Alisha, however being a little bit disappointed was the extent of what it was for me.

Would people have been pissed about Kratos leaving the party mostly permanently if Tales of Symphonia was released today, what with DLC costumes and everything?

@sasukeuchiha998

5 жыл бұрын

Probably not since husbando are less important to internet than waifus.

@lonerevenant0

3 жыл бұрын

@@sasukeuchiha998 Husbando are my life bruh. One of the reasons why I couldn't kill Eizen as a dragon because i've been in love with him since I played Berseria.

I'll wait for the updated video. There's still a lot of things that are unclear. Japanese won't just "dogeza" in public if it weren't very serious, and the Alisha's JP VA asking if she could join the "Tales of Family" just came out of nowhere...all happening at Tales of Festival is just weird.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

There isn't going to be another video because nothing else of note has surfaced and I doubt anything else will come. I presented everything that is worth discussing, if things are still unclear then it's due to Namco Bandai keeping a tight lip about it.

Despite the fact that I hated Rose and her forced sense of humor, all these controversy was just fanboys bullshitting as always. I didnt know that gets so many consequences. Death threats man! Thats Absurd!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, death threats over a character leaving the party.......

Oof, this info is new to me, specially cause I'm still in the first 5 hour of the game. I liked Alisha too damnit ;-; Idk why but Rose seems like a rushed character to me, I mean just compare the 2 character designs of Alisha and Rose and you know which one the team put more care on

@DanielSantosAnalysis

6 жыл бұрын

The character designs are conceived by Kosuke Fujushima, it was not a team effort.

So Alisha/Rose's controversy is kinda similar to FF15 Stella/Lunafreya's controversy. People just love them.

Yeah they honestly had the material to do way better. Alicia was fun to use in combat to.

Shame they didn't get rid of Sorey instead, he was honestly the most boring, generic protagonist in any Tales game i've played

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

I take him over Emil at least.

@Michaeljack81sk

5 жыл бұрын

@@DanielSantosAnalysis I'll give you that, though I don't consider DotNW a flagship game, or really anything at all ;)

@Kirbychu1

5 жыл бұрын

God I absolutely hated him

@revolvingworld2676

4 жыл бұрын

I cant disagree there. Hell Mikleo should have been the main character.

@kristopher4557

3 жыл бұрын

Emil actually got the girl and got laid lol I'd take Emil and Ludger over Sorey anyday

And most people hate how the old characters were handled DotNW. And they were all back in the end. But rendered useless because of level locking.

To be real, to support the lack of communication point. An example I can come up with is near the end of the game. There's a spot where it's night time in the bell tower town. All the members walking around, sitting and talking with the Journey's End song singing in the background while their talking. Anybody should know having a vocal song in the background playing while dialogue is happening is not a good idea, especially with it blasting, drowning out the voices from the characters talking. It's a very beautiful song that belongs in that moment and makes it so much better, but with the characters talking on top of it- it becomes a mess. If they had better communication, that would not have happened. If communication was better, they'd coordinate with the song. The song would do vocals when characters weren't talking and be instrumental when they were talking. But it seems they were made separately with just a few parts matching properly.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

9 ай бұрын

I think it speaks to the game's clearly troubled development, I can only imagine the alternate timeline where this game had more of a chance to cook in the oven before release, the narrative surrounding it would be very different.

have not played this game before but i've always thought that Alisha is the main heroine :O

It did kinda annoy me that she left the party mainly because I really liked Alisha's character, and I was really hoping she would come back near the end game permanently similar to how Flynn Scifo does in tales of Vesperia. I don't really care that Rose got Alisha's costumes, and personally thought it was cute that they were able to wear each other's costumes. But yeah Alisha needed more justice tbh but i'm not MAD about it because I liked Rose. Also yes, Edna IS best character lmao

Great video! Admittedly I don't know a lot about the series, but you gave a lot of really good insight about the game and the controversy surrounding it. Loved the pace of it too!

I haven't play the game yet, but I watch the anime. I don't see any problem with Alisha character in the anime.

@wangonn6601

4 жыл бұрын

Good just don't play the game

I hope they would just release a definitiv version of the game and take care of all its technical Flauts and story problems. They could go a simliar way like the anime series (alisha coming back later) and everyone is happy xD i mean they did the same with tales of vesperia and making flynn an permanent character, so its possible. I guess the easiest way to solve this problem, is to create an branching plot. That would be interesting.

@DanielSantosAnalysis

4 жыл бұрын

I dunno, I kinda doubt this would ever happen, at least not in the foreseeable future.

Either it's Ai Kayano or Mikako Komatsu. I like them both as VA's, both of them do great job. I hear Hotel Dusk in the background!

@DanielSantosAnalysis

5 жыл бұрын

Hotel Dusk is my jam.