HISTORY LESSON: In December of 1938, phycisists Lise Meitner and Otto Frisch discovered the phenomenon of nuclear fission, the splitting of atoms, and its potential for energy generation. Lise Meitner and Otto Frisch did not cause the Cold War, and are not responsible for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because that is not how literally anything works. About 325 years ago in the League of Legends timeline, the powerful World Runes were discovered and became studied by mages looking to unlock the secrets of magic. "Mages" did not cause the Rune Wars, the political power-holders who decided to deploy magical weapons of mass destruction did. "Mages" were not responsible for the Rune Wars, for the same reason that nuclear phycisists as a group aren't responsible for the Chernobyl disaster, and engineers as a group aren't responsible for the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows bridge. Saying that "mages did the Rune Wars" is not only not accurate to the lore, it is not accurate to basic causal logic. So you can stop posting "but the Rune Wars!!!" in the comments now, please.

@neizanmendez6317

3 жыл бұрын

Every time someones mentions nuclear fission i instantly get okuu's flashbacks, i swear i haven't heard "pichuun" harder than in th11

@jamaalmontemayor8173

2 жыл бұрын

I feel what gets lost in stories like these is that Demacia is essentially almost completely responsible for all the deaths caused by sylas. Demacia created a situation where this was going to happen. I am not saying Sylas did not choose to kill civilians but what reason would he have to not harm civilians? His parents were so enraptured in Demacias beliefs that they convinced they mage son to join the magic gestapo if that sentiment is common among demacian citizens then at least in Sylas' tortured and guilt rattled brain they deserved to die. Also if they participated or aided in the capture of mages aren't they just as bad. Also isn't Demacia essentially a fools errand if mages can be born from non mage parents the a nation with no mages is impossible and the only way to make one is through genocide? So by trying to do so didnt they bring violence on themselves. I feel that if you are part of or complicit in a genocide you cant really complain when someone tries to kill you.

@NegativeScion

2 жыл бұрын

Just seeing this video now. This is a really good video, and I appreciate your patience with delving into this subject. Your line about "the internet is the internet"--I totally get that. Nuance can be lost pretty quickly online. I agree with all the problems you pointed out and the solutions you offered as well. There's much more to this overall narrative/series of storylines. I'm interested in seeing a more nuanced and humanized Sylas that isn't simply just sadistic or manipulative as a counterpoint to the portrayals of the Demacian royals and anti-magers. Like you, I agree that the Rune Wars doesn't justify Demacia's treatment of mages, but it helps explain, to some extent, the trauma inherited by the Demacian people that contributed to this system of oppression that was originally meant to protect--we can sort of see how the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And being able to express this in future storytelling will definitely be pretty cool to see on Riot's part. Great work.

@somedudeAPS

Жыл бұрын

Dude, let me just put this out first, opinions are just that and yours are not less valid than mine. I'm just going to point out where i disagree, there's no "right" or "wrong" opinions. Sylas was tortured, and much of his existence was just pain. Of course he will be a maniac. He never stood a chance. Now, that's not to say he isn't in the "right side of history", of course he is. Sylas is an anti-hero (a "villainous" character that fights for "good"), and all these "noble", shining Demacians like Garen and J4 are anti-villains ("noble" characters that fight for "evil"). Sylas should be a psycho. If he was this ambiguous, nuanced character the nightmare he lived did nothing to him? Really? He should want "to burn it all down"! It's perfectly understandable that he wants to free the mages AND wrathful revenge. It would be weird if he didn't. If someone tortured you for most of your life wouldn't you want your pound of flesh? Are you even human if you don't? I don't understand how someone reads his story and comes out with a understanding that "Demacia right and Sylas bad". He's THE hero and also THE monster Demacia's persecution of mages created. He's the ultimate product of their sin. He's "justice" (also something deeply tied to Demacia, and IMO it's many meanings are Demacia's central theme). I know we disagree (and that's cool), to me Sylas/The mage genocide is some of their best work, if not their best. He shouldn't be this nuanced character, because his quest isn't, he's just right. If he wasn't "that bad", maybe the system isn't either. Him being a monster just proves how rightful his quest is, because the system he is fighting against literally created him. He is "the demon" they created. Sylas is mirror held up to Demacia. Behold it's underbelly. It's great. (of course he can develop into something else as things unfold, but i digress...)

Plot Twist: The surgery was botched and this is actually what Skyen really sounds like now.

@danielm.berube3256

3 жыл бұрын

He had to have a voice box implanted in his throat

@takotakotakotakotako

3 жыл бұрын

Don't mind me I'm just here to say that cat is cute

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielm.berube3256 Or in the hole the dentist knocked in his jaw. It's not like there's anything else there!

@saltyreboot

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps this is all a ruse and his robot AI self he has been using to keep up with the algorithm has reached a level of intelligence which caused him to kill Skyen but it failed because of Skyen's wonderfully trained jaw.

@Yfrith

3 жыл бұрын

Stephen hawking's descendant (?)

I do not like what they say in this story "if silas just waited, then a good king would do his best." Just wait and the authorities will do everything themselves. Don't rock the boat, that pissed me off the most.

@ivangusev128

3 жыл бұрын

senpai nooticed? feels good man.

@Shadowknight1224

3 жыл бұрын

They did this exact same bullshit with Xerath and Azir.

@ninjatoriumnova2483

3 жыл бұрын

@@Shadowknight1224 Pretty sure the writers do implicitly condemn Azir because he realizes he was at fault, although he still comes off as too much of a good guy for a slaveowner, no matter how "fairly" he treated his slaves. This Sylas bullshit is just "see, no need to get angry, in fact, if you get angry you deserve what's coming to you" centrism in fantasy story form.

@ivangusev128

3 жыл бұрын

@@ninjatoriumnova2483 Azir is not as hypocritical as the Demacians. All the same, he is an ancient Egyptian tyrant and he was supposed to become the emperor who would carry out the necessary reforms and all that. And the Demacians talk about protecting the weak, brotherhood, honor, and so on, and then they collect the children and keep them in cages, and when it starts to harm the economy and the state, then what? Probably they will just chop on the spot so as not to bother with the cage.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

You don't need to change things. Things will get better on their own. We don't need revolution, we just need to get rid of the super-rare bad apples and let the current hierarchical power structures fix everything.

Demacia and Noxus back in the day: "Demacia is silver and blue and good :) and Noxus is black and red and evil :(" Demacia and Noxus nowadays:" They both actively practice Genocide but Demacia does it within its borders and Noxus around it. Pick your poison. Happens on Targon and in the Freljord too, btw"

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

as if shurima wasnt treating people like items and conquering everything around it, ocasionally burning cities for fun.

@Jan_Iedema

3 жыл бұрын

As far as I’ve read noxus fights with the intent to call those they conquer brother. I didn’t see any evidence of them actively trying to exterminate other people. Maybe pre swain noxus did but the current noxus doesn’t.

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jan_Iedema exacly.

@zwiebeldogs

3 жыл бұрын

@@Jan_Iedema If they conquer a new region they first ask their enemies to be brothers, if the enemy denies, Noxus starts forcing them into that decision. If they still stand afainst them, they'll be slaughtered. Just look at Ionia

@BipolarTwinsify

3 жыл бұрын

Genocide for you Genocide for him Genocide for her Is there any character faction that isn''t doing genocide? oh wait, Auerlion Sol of course, you can't commit genocide if everyone is dead

"Sylas, why?" Asked lux, after almost executing the guy that defended himself.

@quinn.iamdefinitelycisgend2542

3 жыл бұрын

Why would you Resist Being executed For something you have no control over?

@quinn.iamdefinitelycisgend2542

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinondryas2035 bruh he had to kill them to escape being imprisoned for not revealing a child mage. so actually like....

@robertterrell7057

Жыл бұрын

The portrayal of sylas is a sympathetic hero in the game, and one of the best parts is that he doesn't apologize for doing that to Lux and said he would do it again

@ApexGale

Жыл бұрын

@@robertterrell7057 And his arc in the game makes sense, because he admits that what he should have done was confided in Lux instead of use her the way he did. The Mageseeker did wonders for Sylas as a character and Demacia as a whole, though I will say I hope they don't just shove all the flaws onto the Mageseeker faction and actually grapple with Sylas and J4 being at odds with one another.

@lukiklepsa6218

Жыл бұрын

And then commiting mass murder on innocent bystanders.

This is a running theme in riot's writing, I'm afraid. Nearly every region has some sort of rebel character and/or faction with legitimate greivances against the current status quo, but we're expected to lend equal sympathy to the defenders of that status quo simply because they serve to protect "law and order"

@bartekmostek4850

3 жыл бұрын

i would not say that is the case, in some conflicts sure! in others it is just a pick your poison.

@amiefortman7220

2 жыл бұрын

This is honestly why I was kind of disappointed revisiting "Arcane". Yes, the animation is gorgeous, and a lot of the characters are endearing as hell, but the "both sides are equally wrong!" throughline of the story just got so damn annoying. Like... *no,* the people struggling to stay alive and well in a sunken toxic hellhole are *not* just as bad as the rich assholes who see them dying in droves and do nothing about it (and don't seem to treat their own sick and/or disabled citizens with much compassion either). And the way the framing kept insisting that was the case really grated on me.

@Topunito

2 жыл бұрын

@@amiefortman7220 I honestly don't see how they did any of that except for Silco, who was just legitimately evil, and Sevika, who worked for him and opposed our protagonists. Every other important character from the undercity was portrayed as either good and right, or very sympathetic(Jinx) as far as i can remember. Now, while I don't think making a character from the undercity the main villain is exactly unrealistic or problematic, I do think it would have been good to villainize Piltover more. They had the terrifying enforcers and were portrayed as oppressors, but there could have been more clearly evil characters. Marcus was bad but I don't think he was portrayed as being in the same level as Silco in terms of evil.

@christopherwilliams6848

2 жыл бұрын

@@Topunito The thing that irritated me was how willing the show was to give the benefit of the doubt to Mel. Personally, I think Mel is a fun character, I like the fact that her Noxus ancestry brings forward questions about the nature of power in politics, I like her character arc in trying to define herself against Ambessa, and I think she does good things for the plot. However, it's really hard to overlook the sheer quantity of power (both hard and soft) she possesses, and in so doing, the level of responsibility she has for the Undercity's state. Mel is probably the only person on the council who could force through measures to improve the state of the Undercity, and the fact that she doesn't paints her, to me, as one of the villains of the piece. The fact that the show barely even touches on the responsibility she holds is deeply frustrating to me.

@goldenbrigain7031

2 жыл бұрын

It's called grey morality. And this is what it looks like when it's pined after and done horribly, which is most of the time.

I read through all the comics and was like "am I supposed to root AGAINST him?"

@mudawott

3 жыл бұрын

@@dieptrieu6564 yes and that doesnt mak it any less lazy. THE VIOLENT REBELS TRYING TO STOP GENOCIDE ARE JUST AS BAD AS THE GENOCIDAL KINGS WILLING TO LET THEIR PEOPLE DIE. WE ARE VERY GOOD WRITERS. Its a lazy way to not offend anyone or not make any characters less likeable except the fucking rebel. The rebel is the bad guy not the opressivr system that created him. Fuck that lazy shit.

@Hypno_Daddy

3 жыл бұрын

@mudawott well same thing happened in The Hunger Games. The leader of district 13 and the revelution was just as Bloodthristy as Snow

@lefteron6804

3 жыл бұрын

@@dieptrieu6564 He is the rovespieros of Demacia.

@dieptrieu6564

3 жыл бұрын

@@lefteron6804 This is a fantasy, you can't apply real world solution to a fantasy story. There should be a better fantasy solution to this

@sirnonsense5033

3 жыл бұрын

mudawott I think you all just put your judgment to fast a lot of this problems is cuz Rito hasn’t revealed the true villian of the story for surprise effect. It isn’t revealed yet who killed j4s death so of course Rito can’t show who pulls the strings behind demacia controlling the country into a mage hating machine. It’s not lazy writing to drag a story out. They want league to continue for a few more years and have many regions to focus on. They can’t just finish demacia completely and neglect all other stories in the meanwhile... And I don’t understand how so many don’t get that...

It's like riot wants to have the credit for having 'deep' characters and circumstances, without actually having to question their 'good guys'

@MrJDozzo

3 жыл бұрын

it is exactly that

@alexs29

3 жыл бұрын

Yep. Can't make Lux, Garen, Jarvan & co. look remotely bad though - especially not Lux, thanks to her immense e-girl following and skin sale numbers. Gotta make Sylas look comically villainous in that comic after all.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

​@@seelfire4725 "Garen eventually stops helping with the mage genocide, so he's a good guy." You are disturbingly willing to just forgive someone for participating in an Ascended-damned _genocide._ You don't get to stop and just be considered a good guy. You have to actually try to repair the damage being done, or at least actively oppose the system _continuing to commit genocide!_ Or you could just wear white and blue, clad yourself in shining armor, and be consistently introduced in a manner which is _obviously_ not unbiased. Then people might mistake you for a good guy even as you continue to be complicit in a genocide! And if you pull it off well enough you never need to explore the weighty questions around "good" people who participate in crimes against humanity.

@emuuriarte1433

3 жыл бұрын

it seems no one actually knows the history between demacia and mages. during the runewars Mages were killing literally everyone they could and they were the only people that had power and because of this, people fled they found a random place that is filled with antimagic materials and built a home there. demacia has a deep-seated fear of Mages because of their past does that justify their actions no, but no one seems to recognize that it even happened

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

​@@emuuriarte1433 ...so, basically the Demacian mage genocide is based on a stab-in-the-back myth that's actually true? This just keeps getting worse. Genocide is not a morally complex issue. It's always wrong. Yes, even if mages did bad things in the past. I fucking hate when writers make it a morally complex issue, especially in this age of extremism, where so many people try to argue that Hitler had a point actually.

There have been a lot of strange choices around the Sylas plotline

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

and xeraths. almost same story tbh

Someone in a different YT comments section dubbed this practice "Flag-crushing" (I believe in the context of talking about the MCU's Killmonger) and I quite like the term when talking about fiction. It's when a character who, by all rights, is on the right side, or at least a _very_ well reasoned side, of a conflict, but because *the writers* require this character to be the antagonist, they need to inject them with unnecessary Villain Moustachium, in an attempt to make sure the audience doesn't empathise with them. It _usually_ just ends up frustrating the audience because they WANT to jump sides in this conflict, yet can't because a character who could _so easily_ be the hero of the story is "crushing their own flag" and refusing to be the hero at the writer's whims.

@goldenbrigain7031

2 жыл бұрын

It's what I hate about grey morality. Pushed too far it just becomes convoluting the story to make yourself seem superior in your own head, instead of focusing on making a good story! They didn't write Sylas like this because they care about their stories they're doing it because e'grey morality' seems uber cool in the mainstream and they're trying (and failing) to contort a story away from it's natural direction into something else entirely to get those 'intellectualizing stimulating content' points. Get some of that 'nuanced' and 'complex' goodness everyone's raving about. Thing is, a show like arcane manages that through a ridiculous amount of skill and honest knowledge about the subject they're dealing with. These idiots didn't even WANT to really think about what they were doing and just hamfisted a botched result in the form of letting Demacia go along with a genocide...because why not?

@marxist-leninist-protagonist

Жыл бұрын

I thought the term was mentioning the Flag Smashers from TFATWS. Which fit that description as well. Fucking hate this enlightned centrist writing

What? A man born in nation that from his earliest moments in life told him that he is something disqusting and evil, who was lock in prison as a CHILD might have a bit of psychopatic tendencies? Yeh Sylas has some extreme methods but he is still right and propably Best Demacian champion

@Little_Lepus

3 жыл бұрын

Whaaaaaat? Growing up in prison and being told that you're less than dirt every day since you were a child screws up mental and emotional development??? No way! Who could have possibly guessed? Not Riot evidently XD

@treymtz

3 жыл бұрын

Hands fucking down, he's the best Demacia has to offer. What's the competition? Garen? Lux? J4? Nah, can't touch him.

@08Fist

3 жыл бұрын

@@treymtz Poppy probably. Also debatably Morgana. Poppy in particular I hope they bring into this storyline. Seeing where the supposed paragon of Demacia winds up in this conflict will be very telling about who Riot feels is ultimately in the right, or at least who is less wrong.

@Eat_shit--die_mad

2 жыл бұрын

The issue is that riot keeps capitalizing in every opportunity to show Silas in a bad light instead of bringing nuance to his mental issues

There's also the Xayah angle where her revolution of the Vastaya must learn to be less "radical" despite them literally dying due to human activity (or rather, zed's and noxus's, but that's debatable). To riot, any direct action against the status quo is bad, even though the status quo, like in real life, is about to face 4 or 5 apocalypses at the same time (like the void, mordekaiser, the world runes, just to name a few), so I'd say no, the people in power in runeterra are NOT doing a great job.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

The real world has only one or two proper apocalypses. Everything else is just a path to dystopia which doesn't quite hit the apocalypse threshold. ...but yeah, screw the status quo and screw the people defending it.

@ArcaneAzmadi

3 жыл бұрын

Well I hate to be "that guy", but... they _are_ backed by Tencent, after all.

@saltasaurus3392

3 жыл бұрын

Well, they are owned by tencent which basically responds to the Chinese government so I can very much see them taking that stance

@Bobogdan258

3 жыл бұрын

Ironic for something literally named Riot to such supporters of the status quo.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Bobogdan258 What is in a name? A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. Probably wouldn't sell as well, though. That's probably what's up with the pro-status-quo junk, too. It's a very familiar set of storytelling conventions, which makes them appealing; in addition, depicting the status quo as okay means they don't need storylines where the heroes actually change things meaningfully, which would require massive rewrites of basically everything, which would be a bunch of writer time and salaries and irritated fanboys for...what? Narrative closure? Narrative closure doesn't pay Riot's executives millions of dollars!

I think the Lux comic is really interesting… as a piece of Demacian propaganda. Because let’s be honest, that’s what it is, for all the reasons you pointed out. Sylas is portrayed as some kind of psychopath, because that’s how the Demacians view him. The mages are portrayed as an angry mob, because that’s what most Demacians think they are. However, as you point out: Sylas is right. He might be the bad guy in the story, but that’s because of who’s telling it. I just really hope it’’s Demacia telling it, and not Riot.

@JustAlex2000

3 жыл бұрын

I also imagine that the Lux comic is being told from Lux's/Demacia's persprctive. Instead of it being a story of a man standing up to centuries of genocide, it's a story about a corrupt state being brought down by the monster they themselves created.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

@@JustAlex2000 It's possible to tell a story from the perspective of someone who heartily supports a system, without depicting that system (or the character!) as in any way _good._ Hell, it's easy in a visual medium; just have the main characters be utterly blind to the visual language and framing used in the comic. (Or, in more extreme examples, that their uniforms are black and red and decorated with skulls.)

@whydidyoutubeaddedthisfeature

3 жыл бұрын

Isn't the comic named Lux comic? so I'm pretty sure this entire comic is her POV towards Demacia and Sylas.

@sunriseparrabellum5505

3 жыл бұрын

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, it’s a matter of perspective

@thelordofthelostbraincells

3 жыл бұрын

DAMACIAN PROPAGANDA!

Its always interesting to see the real world reflected in the lore of league

@loicduchange4429

3 жыл бұрын

no it isn't trust me if it was the parralels would have been way more obvious and garen would have killed more people in the comics

@statikin5110

3 жыл бұрын

@@loicduchange4429 well I don't necessarily mean like a 1:1 transition, issues are always complex

@loicduchange4429

3 жыл бұрын

@@statikin5110 ok good to hear it sorry the "shortness" of you're comment made me miss jduge have nice day man

@BalaenicepsRex3

3 жыл бұрын

That's what makes fiction impactful c:

@VladDascaliuc

3 жыл бұрын

@@BalaenicepsRex3 Is it though?

The issue for creating a more nuanced telling of the mage genocide is that Riot tells most of their stories through the champions. The *Lux* comic isn't going to portray Garen as a noble unsympathetic to the plight of an oppressed race because Garen is Lux's brother, and she views him in a positive light. This doesn't excuse your criticism away, of course, but it should be recognized that most of the Demacian storytelling will be from the view of the oppressors because of the imbalance in representation among champions. I think a good way to remedy this would be for Lux to start a nonviolent movement in the upper class using her family's power. This would give a less fanatic view from the mages, and allow Riot to keep their favorite poster girl on the right side of Demacian history.

@shent1059

3 жыл бұрын

But that's the thing, she is not on the right side. Sylas is. And riot clearly does not understand it

@KagamineNachy

3 жыл бұрын

Shent Lux will only be on the right side the moment she also rises against the system. She doesn’t have to join Sylas for her to be right, no matter how also Right Sylas is.

@miklow3278

3 жыл бұрын

@@shent1059 They do (or should) understand, but choose not to show it, because they (most likely) want the story to be seen from the eyes of the vast amount of non-magic using citizens, as well as giving the government the slightest chance of having any kind of credibility for their actions.

@demsterclippy4252

3 жыл бұрын

If this is the purpose of the comic, then we seriously need an equivalent to it for Sylas, on a larger scale than just his bio. All we have for him is his bio, freljord story and cinematic, with the last one still trying to portray him as an antagonist.

@KagamineNachy

3 жыл бұрын

Demster Clippy I mean. You do know what Sylas went to the freljord for, right? He promised the Demacian countryside to the winter’s claw in exchange of their help in getting magic that’s beyond his comprehension and control. As right as his revolution is, he IS the villain in that part of the story. He’s a ‘the end justify the means’ kind of person, so it makes sense. But still! Not Cool!

I never saw Sylas as a villain to be honest in these stories. I saw him as an anti-hero. He is doing good, but he uses violence to achieve it. But i do not think there is any other way to save mages otherwise in demacia.

The problem is that Sylas is a revolutionary in an genocidal system AND a vengeance drive murderer. The only way to not make riot look dubious while keeping the villain spin on him is if they decide to show him as a vengeful murderer using a revolution as an excuse to murder and thereby disconnecting him from the revolution.

@mudawott

3 жыл бұрын

And it never does that. When he realises he has lost he goes toprotecting refugees

@alexsere3061

3 жыл бұрын

That's even worse. I know a lot of people who say stuff like "those protestors don't really care, they just want to loot stuff". The problem isn't his character trope, magneto, Adam taurus and light yagami are all good characters that use revolution as an excuse to be sadistic (magneto not so much), but in all cases we see the opression their people face and that some good leaders exist (Prof X, Blake belladona). The problem is how literally your ONLY revolutionary character is a bag of negative traits.

@tombombadil9622

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexsere3061 I agree. Sylas needs some counterweight. If we're shown a far less bloodthirsty side of the revolution then Riot can keep some face. But still this whole story seems either poorly thought through or it might be demacian propaganda.

Me, reading anything regarding Sylas or Shyvana: Demacia. Must. Burn.

Kinda funny how Jarvan went from chill open minded dude to ultra racist and Garen went from ultra racist to chill open minded dude

Would love to see something about lux starting peaceful protests for liberating mages, and then the demacian police starts to escalate the situation and then lux has to resort to violence and- Well. We all know riot would never EVER do that tho.

@serencefrostbite3362

3 жыл бұрын

Riot would never lead the plot into a riot scene, you mean? :P

I care about Demacia's politics more than my own country's

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

relatable. our countries are beyond salvation

@K11NNGG

3 жыл бұрын

Relatable

@bartekmostek4850

3 жыл бұрын

kinda like me with shuriman politics and well **azir and xerath conflict cough cough**

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

@@bartekmostek4850 team xerath unite

@bartekmostek4850

3 жыл бұрын

@@gilsai4990 not really a xerath dude in all honesty

“THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror-that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.” - Mark Twain, on the French Revolution

I always thought that Sylas' portrayal as a villain was kinda iffy, you put the problems with that into words really well. It's once again down to the power of framing (Which I feel like is often disregarded or ignored?). And yeah I think a deeper exploration of Demacia's crimes is needed. I'm a bit... cynical about whether that will come or be handled with grace because it's Riot we're talking about here All this blahblah to say great Video once again, Skyen, and I wish you a quick recovery because oh my god, post-surgery mouth is annoying as hell to have. Take care ♡

@lefteron6804

3 жыл бұрын

One think that needs to be account it for, is that Demacia was founded by survivors of the Runewars, wars that nearly destroyed the world. Most Demacians don't know or come in contact with mages to see how most of them are normal individuals. Have there been non violont protests before Sylas's? Seem's to me that the only way the situation would improve in the Demacia would be the death of Sylas and a massive reorganasation of the Mageseekers, from Spanish Inquasition, to police force for when a mage goes rampant, cause there will be one at some point event if the persicution stops, cause many people when given any amount of power they will try to abuse it. I don't agree that Sylas is in the right side. He has highjacked a just caused. He is the Rovespieros of Demacia.

@LittleDevilKamiChan

3 жыл бұрын

I could write a dissertation on my problems with that, but I certainly won't do it in a KZread comment. Instead, I want to reiterate that framing is important, so keep a critical eye not only on what the characters do, but also how what they do is presented. Because stories send messages and form our understanding of the world, and I personally would not want to further harm the most marginalised members of society

@mudawott

3 жыл бұрын

@@lefteron6804 Heres the thing about Sylas that every story in him from his perspective makes clear. Persecution of mages isnt born of fear. Well not in the way your saying. Its born out of subjugating the poor. You forget Sylas' ability pre exploding was to see magic. Magic that he saw on the rich and powerful like Lux. In the comic they try and marry her tothe king to divert suspicion. The powerful only deal with mages when it thrratens their control.

@lefteron6804

3 жыл бұрын

@@mudawott True, though fear is what the powerful use to convinsed the normal peole, people like Cithria, to support them. Cithria once she met a mage and had a normal conversation with him had a lot to think about.

@mudawott

3 жыл бұрын

@@lefteron6804 yeah, and by locking tbem up they prevent conversatioms like that from happening. They prevemt maged from helping thier communities.

Honestly just listening to Sylas's voicelines it's like: Ok, this guy wants freedom for his people and for the corrupt hierarchy to be deposed. I'm supposed to not like him?

@droppodgamer8076

3 жыл бұрын

D0GG0NE I wish they would have gave him a better line for encountering a Noxus character instead of just quickly dismissing them I feel like that could have been interesting

@thegrayyernaut

3 жыл бұрын

He has a noble purpose, but his movement can go really, really wrong.

Finally someone fith common sense. I am native and I relate to sylas so much it makes me terribly upset how much riot tries to make him the villain. Sylas should be allowed to be angry and want revenge for his people but riot cannot compute that in their bootlicker brains it seems. Anyway I'm glad someone I admire has the same opinions as me. I hope you get well soon

My question is how can Sylas be a manipulative smooth talker, mans been in prison since he wad a kid. How in the world does he have that much social awareness?

@thelordofthelostbraincells

Жыл бұрын

Charisma magic?

@pokerface4396

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's my beef with him as well. Not only is he way too muscled and healthy for someone who claims that his entire diet in prison consisted of rats, but he has the charisma and leadership skills even though he used to be treated like a wretch and was isolated from society. It would have made more sense if Sylas had originated from a noble family, where he received a good education and was taught to hide his magic, yet, unlike Lux, grew incredibly pissed at the treatment of mages and decided to use his charm, influence to change the system even if it required killing a bunch of nobles, judges or the king himself.

These were all the same issues that I've felt when reading through the Lux comics for the first time. I understand that we mainly follow Lux through the comics and therefore the comics reflect heavily on her perspective. However, like Skyen, I'm not happy with after learning that Demacia is practicing genocide on mages that the topic's severity continues to be downplayed and Sylas, along with his actions, is painted as villainous and in the wrong. I also can't shake the feeling that Lux is essentially set up to be the one that will bring peace to both side and I fear that we're going to get a cheesy "what both sides are doing is bad and we should just forgive and get along" resolution to what is a very serious subject matter. If anything, the comics make me side with Sylas and detest Lux even more.

@TheMightyBattleSquid

2 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of when pepsi made that commercial where some rando hands the protestors and police some pepsi to cure all of society's woes.

Im calling for a story about Morgana, where she frames to Lux just how bad the situation is and has been, why Sylas is *completely* justified in his revolution, but also that she needs to exist in the revolution to temper the sheer bloodlust of Sylas that proves the narrative of Nazi Demacia right. Morgana is the perfect candidate because she is all about forgiveness after the aggressor truely understands and feels the pain the and destruction they caused through their actions.

@Shadowknight1224

3 жыл бұрын

I had a similar idea but with Taric, another pariah from Demacia who would have compassion for the cause, would align himself with the mages out his mantle of the Protector, would bring mercy to the revolution and has history with Garen, who would be on the opposite side of the conflict. But yeah, why not both?

I think that Sylas is a very interesting character, just wish that the writers took him more seriously. He's the perfect character to highlight the atrocities that Demacia is inflicting upon the mages, but they just turn him into a blood thirsty villain. It would be so much better if they showed that Sylas's first goal is the mages freedom and equality but the years of torture he has undergone has left its mark on him. No one can be expected to go through what he did and walk away unchanged, it would be great to see this contrast of his sensible self who wants to take the best path for everyone but also the struggle with his tortured self who wants revenge. Like imagine if when Lux showed up during the Jarven incident he starts off as his tortured self but as he speaks to Lux he sort of comes to and slips back into reasonable Sylas. He realizes that he has gone too far and that he has hurt his friend and begins to apologize

its always so hard to depict just social change that does not involve a degree of vindictive retribution (probably because it is human to feel both when you are part of the oppressed minority being subject to a genocide).

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

Riot: see this man? he evil because he wants to return the pain others caused him riot: *(points to xerath)* and here is a bit more powerfull case us: mood. i will cherish these bitches riot: wait no-

I feel like they're frantically trying to make Demacia "good" again, after the whole retcon softened the setup between "good, blue and white Demacia" and "evil, black and red Noxus". Like they're trying to make Demacia "good" again by giving the story a strawman/bogeyman to show how justified Demacia really is in what is done. Because they accidentally made Demacia pretty condemnable.

@TheMightyBattleSquid

2 жыл бұрын

For real, still waiting to see them really justify the mage hate when half dragons (beings naturally attuned to magic), yordles (beings LITERALLY made from magic), and GIGANTIC living statues (again, still somehow not considered the same thing) are okay but people like Sylas and Lux discovering their powers when they save their fellow demacians are the devil.

I thought it was obvious that sylas was right...

@andresdelc6328

3 жыл бұрын

I actually agree, at no time I felt sylas was actually evil, maybe just that he took it a bit too far. Still, I understand the video and what TB is saying and agree with most of it

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

1. The writers and artists go out of their way to frame Sylas and his actions as overly violent, selfish, and all-around villainous. They also go out of their way to downplay the horrors of Demacia's mage genocide _and_ make the perpetrators of that genocide as sympathetic as possible. They clearly don't think Sylas is right...or at least don't want the audience to get that impression. 2. This is 2020. The fact that Nazis still walk among us should not be shocking.

@kakkadasekazvam3968

3 жыл бұрын

@@timothymclean well thats how they portray him doesnt mean that it has to be so or we should think it is. I am not saying he is an angel but yeah the fact that they are portraying him like this should not lead you to believe he is. It feels kinda shallow to state the obvious and... yeah

@redcommierad2447

3 жыл бұрын

some believe sylas is the bad guy though

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

@@kakkadasekazvam3968 I'm not saying that we should agree with the authors. I'm saying that the authors framed Sylas as a villain, which I _assumed_ would lead to the conclusion "Riot fucked up" and not "All hail Riot, genocide is okay," especially given the context of the video saying "Riot fucked up" in more polite terms.

There's other cases like that in Runeterra. In Shurima for instance, the mad psychopath is Xerath, a former slave; and Azir is the "benevolent" ruler who "always wanted" to free the slaves but only did when it was too late.

it was always so confusing to see demacia being portrayed as this unproblematic and wholesome kingdom the entire time the genocide of mages was happening

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

i like the contrast showing that sometimes something looking nice can be really fucked up to the core but i get a feeling that comic makers didnt get the memo

@w3ss3l88

3 жыл бұрын

@@Vizible21 i mean, no. America is very much a problematic country. It's also not a fictional world where things can be decidedly portrayed differently.

Would love to see a Demacia show, with Arcane quality writing and worldbuilding. I feel that Silco was basically a great foundation to a potentially even greater Sylas.

@thelordofthelostbraincells

2 жыл бұрын

YES!!!! LET THE PEOPLE SEE THE MAGE REBELLION!!!

Jarvan IV: "Demacia was like most nations. Too many mages, not enough restrictions to keep them in check. And when we faced disaster, my ancestor offered a solution." Sylas: "Genocide?" Jarvan IV: "Systematicaly, but dispassionately, fair to rich and poor alike, to rid the kingdom of the threat of magic. They called him a madman, but what he predicted came to pass." Sylas: "Congratulation to him, he's a prophet." Jarvan IV: "He's a ruler, as am I." Sylas: "Who murdered thousands." Jarvan IV: "By wiping out the mages, we protect the people and the mages themselves from their power. The threat of magic will ceased to exist. I call that...mercy." Sylas: "Then what?" Jarvan IV: "I finally rest, and watch the sun rise on a grateful Demacia, safe and protected from the menace of magic."

@sandyholmerin2925

Жыл бұрын

This would've actually been a good characterization of Jarvan III if Riot had the balls to make him a proper villain.

@StockImagesVoid

Жыл бұрын

Jarvan is right, syslas does not understand his own powers.

I have a major issue with fiction messing up allegories about minorities by using people with special powers like mages, mutants, etc. the differences aren’t superficial like skin color or facial features but traits like being able to shoot fire from your hands. That is not what makes someone a minority and if there was a minority of people with incredible power they wouldn’t be oppressed but in fact the oppressor for example billionaires or politicians. What makes me a minority isn’t something cool that makes me have power but just a small aspect of my appearance and culture. Being Egyptian doesn’t give me some cool powers and I feel that when fiction makes stories about minority giving them powers is honestly the best way to mess up any good message that they are attempting to make

There is sentence under the title of the story "Demacian Heart" that perfectly shows what direction they wanted to go with Sylas, it goes: "Nature made him a mage. The seekers made him a killer". In that story Sylas is shown as a good-natured child that turns extremist and the thing mageseekers fear a mage would do because of their own prejudice. "Demacian Heart", "Aftermath", "Turmoil" and "Shield of Remembrance" are all good stories that show that everything isn't just white and black, Demacia is in the wrong but so is Sylas. This whole conflict is a cycle of hatred. Demacia got created by refugees running away from mages. This hatred and distrust towards mages imbues itself in the demacian culture. A widespread change is hard to become since Demacia isn't technologically advanced and information is hard to spread, Sylas was surprised how many people with magical powers were in Demacia, if you were born as one you would think you're just a small handful of unlucky individuals. Nobility with secret magical powers were anti-mages. Jarvan the 3rd wanted to end the mage chasings but for years the mageseekers and the council pushed against the idea. When he finally wrote a decree he got killed (Most likely by demacians with political power that want the status quo to remain), the mages get blamed for it because Sylas marched towards the palace with the intend to kill every noble there, causing Jarvan the 4th to be pushed to the extreme just like Sylas, ignoring the decree and wanting the mages to face his own justice. The way the stories are written clearly show that the best outcome is for the mage chasings to stop for the sake of a unified and stronger Demacia. Demacia has been in the wrong for centuries and the rebellion is justified but Sylas is also in the wrong, he would be glad if every mage died if it meant that he would get his revenge and see Demacia burn.

@girlsamurai26

3 жыл бұрын

Now 'dis guy understands the Demacia conflict!

@gokbay3057

3 жыл бұрын

This is a good comment

@mudawott

3 жыл бұрын

I mean not really. He hates the rich and powerful of demacia Not its people. Hes as much a class revolutionary as he is a mage revolutionary.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

I fucking hate stories which try to both-sides an issue like this. "Yes, the systemic oppression and eradication of an entire class of people for something they neither wanted nor abused is bad...but the revolutionaries are jerks too!" No. Even if Sylas caused even a _fraction_ of the violence and suffering of the mage genocide, _violence and harm is not created equally._ Violence meant to keep a marginalized demographic down is *never* morally equivalent to that marginalized demographic fighting back!

@luskarian4055

3 жыл бұрын

@@timothymclean Notice how the comment also concludes in a proposition where actual power transfer from the status quo to the marginalized mages is instead replaced with a placeholder decree that can be revoked at any time. Revolution>Reform

hbomberguy actually had a similar thought in his recent rwby video "nobody wants to hear a take on how malcolm x could have toned it down." mages are an oppressed people, they have every right to react with violence towards their oppressors. it's called right of revolution, and if anyone tries to say "well what about peaceful approach," a peaceful approach doesn't always work. you can't just (in the words of harris again) go take it up with your local congressman. if jarvan 3 had released his decree earlier then this problem could have been avoided, waiting for "the right time" is ridiculous because some of those imprisoned mages might not make it to the next day. and for what it's worth, countries like america and france didn't get their freedom and political change without violence. sylas is 100% in the right here and riot is clearly trying to lean him more into the "villain going about things the wrong way" trope. sona says that sylas is just causing more problems for mages in her new lines and it's kind of ridiculous considering the man is literally freeing people who were unfairly treated for generations. is she advocating for an underground railroad sort of scenario? what makes demacia worse is that swain implies that many of them even have lesser, unnoticeable magic. Probably akin to strengthening their bodies, making them more resistant to damage and impairment. Really hope they move away from this "blatantly wrong" approach they've tried to push him in

Quinn’s story released yesterday was great insight into her character (I main her, and I hadn’t even realized what she was like) & it was great to see how she felt about the anti-mage push in Demacia.

I well remember when I first read his short story, before that my expectations where like "surely it will be acknowledging that demacia is a genocidal authoritarian empire". The story narrates an inmorall situation, yes an execution, but I was like "are you really trying to make me fell anger towards sylas because of this?' morality has been well launched of the board when we are talking massive genocide levels of oppression towards a group of people

Honestly the moment i saw the cover art instantly inmediately thougt that it was unbiased and a mistake. When i thought about the comic i thougth that it should show what's good about both sides. even when it boils down to "they are just fucking people , there is no more differences than using magic" So when sylas was demonized felt like the writer just has .... opinion..... about minorities with power

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

My two cents: It's probably not an actively-held opinion, because people who recognize their own racism and are okay with it are much rarer than people who just don't question why they think Black Lives Matter is dumb. There's no shortage of reasons provided by society to feel the way you do about minorities, or protests, or hierarchical systems, or whatever. Everyone absorbs this series of justifications during their formative years, both through intentional propaganda and through other well-intentioned people repeating the justifications they absorbed without realizing what they're justifying. And, of course, the ideas being justified come along with the justification. That's why the rallying cry against "Black Lives Matter" isn't "No They Don't," but "All Lives Matter" (or "Blue Lives Matter"). People find justifications about their feelings without examining them, or the reasons they try so hard to justify hating BLM. That's why the same outrage about protesters comes up again and again no matter how peaceful they are or the context of their actions. That's why writers feel a reflexive urge to justify bigotry, oppression, and genocide done by any but the most vile villains, and why audiences defend those justifications with such passion.

"Oopsie doopsie a dentist punched a hole in my mouth and that's the way the cookie crumbles" -TB Skyen 2020

DISCLAIMER: this is NOT a hate comment. I've got to confess that I came to the video preparing myself to argue some points against Sylas regarding the aftermath of the rebellion, but here at the end there's just nothing I can say. Riot actually does need to show both sides of the story with the same depth of details so people can actually understand what Demacia has been doing for so long instead of just looking at things from one side only, this was a necessary video and a much appreciated one, thanks for making it clear that even tho Sylas has a strong reason to rebel against Demacia, he has still done lots of wrong and terrible things, and also thanks for bringing us this content even tho you're still not being able to speak, you're amazing Skyen, can't wait to have your voice on my ears again with new content

@alexsere3061

3 жыл бұрын

I agree that it's good for a story to show both side, and explore how human evil is born from apathy, tradition and etc... The problem is that that same treatment is not given to sylas. The story wants us to empathize with the king who had concentration camps rather than the victim. That is NOT showing both sides. Another problem is that you have to see what your story means and what message it poses. Yeah, sylas is an evil character with barely any good features (or is portrayed like that), what does that say about real rebellious figures? The one rebellious character is a POS while the genocidal ones get the privilege of depth. Tldr; the story does not show both sides, and it had a clear anti rebellion message derived on how it portrays it's factions

I wish you could just rerecord this video sometime because it's very hard to recommend to people in the Microsoft Sam voice

this video is hard to finish. as someone whose family survived concentration camps i had to take several breaks while watching simply because of the very real trauma i remember in my family. thank you for your video.

Thank you for this video! This issue has been bothering me for a long time and I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's concerned about how the comic and other lore sources portray Sylas and the situation in Demacia... As for your health, please get well soon!

thank you for handling this topic with the nuance and care that it deserves, and i hope that this video works to incite change from the bosses of riot's story division. the issues that are being discussed here are supremely important, and we need stories that do them justice. also, wishing you a healthy recovery, and thank you for going the extra mile to put out videos during this time.

There are no good guys in League of Legends. Ezreal is a thief. Noxus is a benevolent conqueror, but a conqueror nonetheless. Demacia is insular and facistic. The Darkin wish to destroy the world. Piltover exploits Zaun, and Zaun disregards ethics to merely keep standing. Zed uses brutal force, yet the Kinkou are complicit in inaction. Riven and Yasuo are murderers. Azir was a slavemaster, Xerath is insane. Targon is a blood fued of two factions, neither of which willing to reconcile. Not to mention the variety of demons. I'm betting we'll get more Sylas POV material before the whole arc is over.

@XonixDerps

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair if I recall, Azir wanted to free them but his father in charge and I'd assume those with power wouldn't exactly just "let him" do that. Till he became ascended ofc While Zaun is true and piltover, they both have groups in them like Zaun who do it because they can and want too rather than necessity/Piltover as well. ( I add this because if people want to look past Sylas legit having mental problems/off the chain - given his life and the fact that he himself would probably be no less than Yas or Riven, should do so for the "heroes" too. Not towards you ofc) Makes me think of something I heard where the only "good" person is the compassionate person that helps regardless of station, refusing to kill or maine. But they themselves are also helping someones enemies survive in a sense. (Or the innocent, but they don't share a good or evil to begin with anyways)

@mattheusfinco7050

3 жыл бұрын

What are you saying ... BRAUM IS GOOD

@levwhitelaw5561

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattheusfinco7050 so is neeko!! and bard!! (possibly)

@goldlight1322

3 жыл бұрын

What about Lucian and Senna though? They’re just trying to stop the undead.

@gilsai4990

3 жыл бұрын

@@XonixDerps Azir was basicaly teasing starving man with food for the lack of better comparison. after death of his father, he took decades to free the slaves and he wasnt even sure if he COULD do it in the end but instead of being honest he told xerath to basically fuck off with hope that MAYBE he will keep his promise and he made the final decision AFTER xerath proposed ascension. Like I get that xerath is fucked up and framed as the main antagonist (kinda lile sylas) but dont erease the fact that azir was (and still is what we can conclude from reading "Realms of Runeterra") just as fucked up as him.

Sylas couldve been their greatest and most complex character but they decided to try so hard to frame him as evil,cmon bruh

I've hated Demacia since I started playing this game. So when the lore expanded enough to conclude they were more grey than everyone thought I was very interested, and then when Sylas was revealed I was so excited. He's the only "Demacian" champion I like and this comic was so cool! Until... I saw that they started portraying Sylas not as a morally grey and interesting character, but as a chaotically evil villain, I was really disappointed, but even still I'm still rooting for him.

Always good to see critique like this of AAA games, even if they are games we enjoy. Will you ever talk about imperialism and (potentially) it’s low-key glorification in the Noxus storyline?

Wait, wtf, I haven't realised Sylas spent most of his adult life in prison. For some reason, I thought he spent like a year or something in that magical jail... Can we burn Demacia, please?

I think Demacians wrote this comic tbh

Given how much influence media has on public opinion, its all the more important to portray sensitive subjects responsibly in media. Especially when its as popular as league of legends. This comic just reads as though it was in-universe state propaganda within a Demacian bookstore.

Thank you! The mage rebellion storyline has been really bothering me. It doesn’t exactly cast a favorable light on the idea of using violence to end oppressive power structures.

Sylas isn't portrayed as the kind of revolutionary that can succeed and make things better in the first place. I read the writers answers for Sylas' character on reddit, and it just gives me that feeling. These are the exact words: "Like a lot of revolutionaries, he's better at tearing down. I honestly don't think he's thought much in the way of practical policy, what a non-hierarchical system would look like on a large scale." Riot isn't portraying Sylas this way because it makes him evil, but to make sure Sylas will fail. The writers know what they're doing and it's deliberate. Obviously they can't let Demacia disappear because the game needs it as a faction. I think it's really stupid that they have to rely on characters being extreme, mad or just foolish in order to achieve the writers' goals for the story, both Sylas and J4 suffer from that I think. It's not unreasonable for Sylas and J4 to be what they are after the Lux comic, but this technique is used too much in the Demacian stories (Sylas, J4, even Kayle and Morgana), and it just feels cheap and lazy. They can definitely create an interesting story for Demacia without making these characters this way, even with all the plot armor for champions. I'm expecting future character development, but I guess I can't let my expectations become too high...

@thelordofthelostbraincells

2 жыл бұрын

So they're alright with basically race fueled genocide (is mage considered a race? Like people can be born with magic. Hmm 🤔)

@gammarhokt6055

Жыл бұрын

@@thelordofthelostbraincells Which "they" are you meant to point to here? Riot, or Demacia?

holy, such a great video, that protagonism to demacian autoritarism bugs me out since the release of sylas. first channel that I see taking a more analitic point of view of the narrative and judging character arcs for what they represent. as a anarchist it is very problematic seeing a huge company that claims to be progressive and support BLM manifestations to portrait a revoluctionary against a opressive regime to be overall a bad guy and a general noble man and his sister that hides to be from the minority in question and don't rebel against the system to be overall good guys. the lack of care when showing the horror of demacian traditions is something to be missed. saw the volibear video too, and I was also disappointed they took the eldrich horror lovecraftian theme of him. nice work, bud, I'm subscribing

I wish you swift recovery! Already miss your Voice :c

My suspicion is that, at Riot, there's still this lingering sentiment that Demacians are still the good guys. However, their storytelling does not describe them so, and that dissonance created Sylas.

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

The Demacians were created as unambiguous heroes. They are drawn and designed like heroes. Rather than try to change how Demacia is conceived and designed, Riot chose the simpler route of writing in moral complexity and then ignoring it as much as possible.

@njrk97

3 жыл бұрын

@@timothymclean Yeah this much is obvious, Demarcia for 90% of its lore lifetime was always designed,written and defined as the standard affair super good guys while Noxus were the Puppy Kicking Evil Spiky badman. Unfortunately trying to retcon that this late in the game, without actually committing to retconing and changing characters means you get these situations with character and aesthetically your still displaying certain characters as just, the good guys, while still having them placed into the retconned genocide faction. Its why in the first place i was getting a little tired of Riots whole Grey Moral Compass retconning they kept trying to do, you cant shift this entire thing without actually doing the work and COMMITTING to a character direction. Unless Garen is Blind and a moron you unfortunately have the implication that he has been complacent in this genocide, that he has seen man,women and child taken away and has never resisted to it. With that in mind you cant play Garen as the Big hero Justice guy in game anymore, the context around him no longer works, because Garen the Big Hero Justice Guy would have broken way, would have rose up, would have stopped supporting this. I think Riot seems to in some form misunderstand that a character believing they are the Justice Hero and BEING the Justice Hero, are not the same thing, Garen as a character can work as the former, Garen cannot work as the latter, same with most if not all protagonists who are pro demarcia, they cant BE heroes because heroes would not be complacent in what Demacia does. Unless they are just going to try and contrive it with the whole 'but they didn't know that Demacia was being mean to the mages they constantly are told to round up and are taken away never to be seen again'. You cant narrative have your cake and eat it to, if Riot has committed to the whole Rounding up Mages crap, you CANT play Demacian champs as objective heroes anymore, especially with how transparent the Demacian government was about the Mage crap, and its concerning once again at how hard they try to play Sylas as the Villain, and that only Lux (Royal Blood btw) can truly be the one to equalize it. No the peasants cant rise up against their oppressors, the sympathetic princess has to be the one to do it, those peasants are too extreme you hear. Honestly its a similar issue Rwby has with its writing, having a oppressed race, then trying to play the extremist group part of that race as villains, while looking at the actual context within the show (Constant Slavery,Oppression, breached Treaty, broken agreements) the group literally has a technical right to go to war, as the agreements established in their previous war, as part of their treaty of peace, literally were not held up and the YEARS upon years of peaceful protests amounted to nothing, AFTER the war they had. They had a War, have a peace agreement, protested peacefully after that agreement was never upheld and then with all options exhausted creeped back into Violence and Extremeism, yet they are the villains. Granted that is Rwby, the show tends to drop the ball writing wise on alot of things, let alone something as tricky as oppression. Back on topic though, the problem with this, and alot of factions really is just that they keep trying to write this grey morality lore to try and be SO DEEP, but then bolt it onto faction and champions that already had very basic morality of good and bad and do none of the ground work needed to retool a champions entire faction identity.

Very interesting video, and would enjoy more. Also, really looking forward to the LoR art stream. I hope I can catch it live whenever that happens.

My great problem with Demacia become even bigger with Jarvan IV. He is the one with the Power for change. And this can give even more drama and Lore If he decide to accept the mages. Imagine the old nobles families starting to Plot in the shadows with others traditionalists traditionalists. And the rulers powers trying to gain the mages trust. And maybe even enlist then for the the army. Or the struggle of Lux to be a New leader of one New mage Faction.

@thelordofthelostbraincells

2 жыл бұрын

They for sure would plan assassination plans to kill jarvin and blame it on the mages

Really nice video! I love this real-world analysis of Runeterran politics. (And you quoted the UN, so that’s just like an automatic 1000 super bonus points.) The new Quinn story really ties into this as well- worth a read! Thank you for getting this message out- the world needs it right now.

@harleqynn1250

3 жыл бұрын

Also sending good mouth-healing vibes your way!!!

@harleqynn1250

3 жыл бұрын

Also I realize now there are too many exclamation points- I’m happy about the topic being covered in the video and brought to light, not happy about the issue itself.

IMPROVISE. ADAPT. OVERCOME.

First off- Love how you kept giving the Info cards for those who want to skip as a sort of “last ditch” But I am staying and watching this video and will give my opinion back once I am done “Will put Edit on that part” Edit: I can pretty much agree with you to an extent though I do believe the ending should have been put before everything else as I am sure we will have those people who stopped watching midway and will say exactly what you have put not to do

Uggg honestly yes to all this, the mage rebelion is potraid in an overwhelming negative light compared to the genoside that caused it and thats a huge problem.

TB, this is what I'm here for. League has become something important to me, in this life of trouble and tribulations. I want so much to dive deep into stories and the mythos of enjoyable things. Thank you. Heal quickly and well.

YOU'RE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT! One of my favorite videos yet, didn't change any of my opinions, but it's always nice to hear someone else articulate the points as well. I was already pretty well orientated to judge the morals of this story from playing and analyzing dragon age, though. so there was never really question in my mind as to who was in the right.

*reads title" yes Yes A million times YES!

There is two genocides in LoL : the mages by the Demacians and the Lunaris by the Solaris in Mont Targon

Wow, this video is distressingly relevant given recent events

There is plenty to show Demacia committing terrible acts but do you know why there isn't as much as with the followers of Sylas. It's because it is much easier to convince the audience that the state committing a genocide of a people group is bad. You don't have to dwell on it for too long until people make the "Oh. Nazis." connection. It is on the other hand much harder to convince people that the rebellion might not be entirely good or that all the people of the nation committing the crimes are bad. So due to the preconceived notions and our natural tendency to root for the underdog they focus more on what we don't often think to balance out our view. But that is just how I view the situation and you might also be in right. Who really knows.

@Quanatan

3 жыл бұрын

Good point!

@georgekelesidis2954

3 жыл бұрын

I think the opposite is true, especially from a moderate/centrist point of view. Demacia is full of sympathetic characters/champions and is coded in a positive fantasy good guys way. A character who exists as their enemy and someone who wants to destroy their society becomes automatically a bad guy for the person who likes them, especially in the Hannibal-esque way he's portrayed in the comic. Imagine for example if in GoT someone begun a revolution against the Starks or in LoTR against Aragorn. Plus, if you see how most people saw minority fighting for rights throughout history and even antifa and BLM the past few years...

@thechainwarden

3 жыл бұрын

@@georgekelesidis2954 Demacia is full of sympathetic characters because otherwise they would be the clear bad guy. Imagine a pure neutral view. A rebelion of oppresed people against a nation that has commited genocide against them. Who do you think people would start to root for before they know anything more about the situation or methods used by either side or their goals and motives. And once you make the first choise it becomes exponentially harder to make you see that the other side isn't pure evil and has good people in it. For a real life example. How hard do you think it would be that germany in world war two was not all bad.

@georgekelesidis2954

3 жыл бұрын

​@@thechainwarden But these characters existed before the mage oppression retcon lore, when demacia was just a generic good kingdom. They already liked them for years. I think that disliking them and demacia would be a much harder thing to do because of that, because people don't like thinking about the implications and the existance of something /someone that disupts their ability to do that is seen kinda like an enemy. But they've accidentaly made demacia comparable to nazi germany and now they have to show that "nah actually they aren't that bad is and also Sylas and his mages are bloodthirsty madmen. It kinda reminds of propaganda or the Starship Troopers movie or how native americans used to be portrayed in westerns (especially Garen's "No need to apologise for making the kingdom safer"). Also, even with nazi germany, there are many people that are like "yeah Hitler and the ss were truly horrible, but the military officers and the soldiers were brave and just fighting for their country". Then again, I would like a story where Garen and Lux realize how bad things are and try to radically change the country, resulting in a conflict with Jarvan.

I agree 100% with you, Blitzcrank

Sylas is not a good guy, but demacian aren't the good guys either. I always felt like sylas is just the dark reflection of demacia, he might not be good but his cause is just

@timothymclean

3 жыл бұрын

You could argue that he's the inverse of Demacia. Demacia is "heroic" in some sense; most of its primary characters are (or at least are framed as) "Good" people who sometimes do less-good things and are contrasted against "Bad" people (e.g. Noxus), but what they fight for is basically a feudal monarchy which is committing genocide. Sylas is a "Bad" person, partly because of his framing but also because it's really easy to make a character evil if you're trying; he's contrasted by the "Good" people of Demacia, but fights for a righteous cause-the destruction of a genocidal, oppressive monarchy. The only contrast more extreme than their goals and ideology is the contrast between how Riot writes them. Though the contrast between each side's goals and framing is a close third.

@ianbrown1810

3 жыл бұрын

I dont see how sylas isn't the good guy what bc he destroyed some buildings during his state execution? That he put on a mock trial for the king a privilege most mages don't even get, that he made them eat rats? Literally he was forced to. Sylas is correct in this the rulers of demacia are awful people and deserve nothing beyond a pike for their heads

@LordTrung

2 жыл бұрын

@@ianbrown1810 In Demacia's citizen point of view. Their ancestors lost their homeland because of magic, and now their new homeland also gonna be destroyed by magic. Does that make Sylas a good person to you?

@ianbrown1810

2 жыл бұрын

@@LordTrung what that the government is using the actions of a thousand years ago to commit genocide of people? Yeah sorry don't really give a shit what the monarchy feels the right here. And we see the common person doesn't care about this mage nonsense bc they will actively try and go against the mage seekers or hide the young mages.

@TheMightyBattleSquid

2 жыл бұрын

@@LordTrung yes because they're getting a fraction of what they deserve. Buildings are MUCH less important than human lives. Your strawman argument ignores ALL of the genocide in order to get the non-mages to come off as oppressed, even as they one-sidedly oppress others.

Send it to Riooooooot! I really enjoyed this video, opened my eyes to see the story line more clearly than before.

THANK YOU TB! I ALWAYS THOUGHT THE SAME

I kinda like the whole sylas storyline tbh and how they made it so bias in order for us to feel bad for demacia. It makes me question the narative.

Comrade TBotSkyen took over the KZread channel

still haven't watched the video, but the title's truthfulness is unquestionable and should be obvious.

This kinda makes me wonder "what would happen if their world and out world were in the same universe" ? How would this go, how with these groups and our groups interact? And how fast would the Geneva convention would label damacia as WAR CRIMINALS!

I mens a mature and complex bd will critisises both side. That tyrnanical genocyde gouvernement is bad , but violence terrorisme révolution is not the way to fight it. Like magneto un xmen . In ours historique lot of révolution do horrible tings for fight tyranic gouvernement .

@TBSkyen

2 жыл бұрын

No, a mature and complex mind understands that in fiction, it is the AUTHORS who decide what the different sides of a conflict are like, and the ways those sides are presented, and the way the conflict is presented, is an act of rhetoric.

This is why I hope we get Sylas in Legends of Runeterra soon. Having him and a group of characters under his command would give us more interactions and more depth in something more than just side comics that only us lore nuts read. If we had a bigger picture of the people who follow him, then we would have a better understanding of why they follow him, and how they might feel differently.

@notrealatall337

3 жыл бұрын

He would probably be a Freljord champ just given his current set up, or maybe even still like "Demacian" since his story is driven by that region.

@atino7169

3 жыл бұрын

@@notrealatall337 I'm not sure which, I'd think Demacia since that's where he's from, but they also put Nocturne as a Shadow Isles champion when he canonically plagues Demacia.

@danielbadra9447

3 жыл бұрын

I think his card would look like this: Round start: fleeting enemy spell Level up: you've cast those fleeting spells X times lvl 2: casting enemy cards cost no mana (something like that)

@atino7169

3 жыл бұрын

@@danielbadra9447 Spellshield Round Start: Create a Fleeting copy of the last spell the enemy played in the previous round. "I level up after you've played 3 cards from your opponent's deck." (This opens up Nabbing strats or that one Piltover card that copies an enemy spell). Challenger Spellshield Round Start: Create a Fleeting copy of the last the enemy played in the previous round. The first time you play a spell each round, grant me spellshield. The third time you play a spell each round, stun the strongest enemy. What'cha think?

@danielbadra9447

3 жыл бұрын

@@atino7169 I think it would be even cooler if he specifically copied enemy champion spells. But then... You have no fun if the enemy is running a championless deck

Seeing how this kinda of a running theme in riot writing, it honestly doesn't give me hope for arcane season 2 and 3

Hey Skyen have you heard the new interactions Sona received? What do you think she can add to the Demacian narrative?

I know I'm a year late. But I was wondering how you would compare the Mages of Demacia story to the mages in Dragon Age, or the Alchemists in FMA?

Hey! I really enjoyed this video, and thought it was a very solid analysis of some topics that I really haven't seen from any other league content creators in a while. That said, I have some thoughts I wanted to respond with: Riot seems to be attempting to show both sides of this issue, if poorly, with Lux as the protagonist, the sort of "true" good. Here's what I mean: Garen, Jarvan, and the rest of Demacia proper seems to have a noble cause that is corrupted in a way that oppresses and wrongs people (i.e. their ends are just, wanting peace/order for their people, but their means are flawed, causing literal genocide against a group that doesn't actually go against that goal.) Meanwhile, Sylas too has just ends, wanting freedom for his people, but he too has flawed means and a somewhat corrupted character tats really in it for revenge. He shouldn't take pleasure from slaughtering demacian soldiers, but he does, and he shouldn't wish to torture his oppressors. In other words, both sides have supposedly just ends that get corrupted by how they're implemented and the ignorance of themselves when attempting to implement them. Lux is the sort of solution here, as she wishes for peace but also understanding, and is therefore less flawed than either side. That's, at the very least, what I think Riot is trying to go for here. The only issue is, as you've pointed out, they're not terribly good at showing the difference between Sylas' unnecessary violence, and the necessary action he takes to prevent his people from being oppressed, abused, and discriminated again. So uh, yea, hope you agree with me. I guess I'm just trying to state clearly a summary of what I think riot was going for, because I didn't really get an overview of the morality of both sides from the video.

I think what drives me nuts about this kind of cheap "both sides" writing is that... this isn't a real person with real morals and values. This is a fictional character being puppeteered by writers with their *own* morals and values. Those writers put those words in the character's mouth. They made the character perform those actions. They *made* the character a hypocrite just to push their own beliefs about how "those kinds of people" act and why. They aren't portraying a real-life situation--they're engineering a situation wherein a victim of genocide can be demonized. And I don't think I need to point out how ghoulish that is.

@thelordofthelostbraincells

2 жыл бұрын

Riot basically made the equivalent of ww2 Germany into the league of legends works. No lie.

@gammarhokt6055

Жыл бұрын

So how would you do it instead? Like, let say we rewind back to 2014. The setting had just been reset, but Demacia still have a reputation of "The good kingdom". Sylas doesn't exist yet, but the other, established Demacia champions do, and have their own fanbase due to their traditional "knight in shining armor" narrative. And Riot do what they did because they try to achieve two parallel goals, which I find to be reasonable: The first goal is to marred the image of Demacia, and to make it a flaw society, compared to what it was in the old lore. However, the second goal is that it can't be too flaw, because again, Demacia champions have their own dedicated fanbase, who fall in love with the character BECAUSE they are "the good guy". So how would you have done, instead?

@gammarhokt6055

Жыл бұрын

@Coldchary I dont think you get my point. The point is not about those who said "You cant like Demacia, they do genocide". If you want to play as genocdial monarch, great, you do you. The point is about people who fall in love with the old Demacia because it was a flawed but ultimate pretty decent society. And you cant even say "such society never existed" because even Riot themselves acknowledged so. Riot outright told us the anti mage storyline was add because Demacia was too perfect. For THOSE people, they dont want to play as genocidal monarchy. Certainly you are not suggesting throw them under the bus just because they dont want to play what they view as the bad guy? Because "Sylas is the hero and Demacia the villain" would be exactly that.

@gammarhokt6055

Жыл бұрын

@Coldchary Ok, care to elaborate about that? I do like to point out for example, Thousand Pierced Volibear was turned into a skin because existing Volibear fans feel like it deviate too far from existing Volibear. Why should the same not applied here?

Thank you for speaking about this! It confused me so much when reading the comic.

Honest to god I had a dream last night where I watched this video again but Skyen was narrating it like normal.

Really liked the Blitzcrank cosplay today TB Skyen!

@DusKnight7th

3 жыл бұрын

More like Orianna, but ok.

Jarvan III-s death was kinda tragicbut in a different way. He died just days before publishing his new law, that made the mage genocide prohibited. So he really caused genocide, but he realised his sins just days before he died, and tried to fix it. So imo Jarvan IV is a far worse person rn than his father, because he new of his fathers attempt, and out of revenge he decided to continue the mage holocaust. Jarvan IV is no better or even worse than the commic sylas, who was pushed to his breaking point by years of tragedy and suffering, while Jarvan went clearly against his fathers last wishes out of anger (wich is really unbeffitting of his position of a king)

And this is why I tend to avoid playing Demacian champions. Bastards all.

Never understand why people were comparing him to Lenine for me it was an instant " It's my boy Robespiere" maybe because i'm french... Riot triend to do what Robespiere rival's tried( and succeed ?) to do : potray the man as some evil bloodthirsty even some among them did the same exact act without having any use to the cause of the revolution

@luskarian4055

3 жыл бұрын

@Gage Acosta He doesn't show authoritarian tendencies though, closest example should be Makhno or some other anarchist based on ideology alone

I think Sylas embodies a trope of vengeful revolutionary, meaning that he only wants and knows how to destroy the current regime with no idea or ability to create a functioning one of his own. I see the his story as well as Demacia's going the following way: 1. Sylas wins, creating the tyranny of his own where nobles and everybody who opposes his radical ways are slain, captured or oppressed, as that's the only way he knows how do deal with opposition. Plus we have already seen the Darkness he can demonstrate. He is revolutionary, cunning visionary and psychopath in one body). Jarvan and his close comrades alongside of Army leftovers escape to Freljord seeking help of Avarosans. They aquire it, helping against winter's claw for example. They already have beef with Demacia anyway. Meanwhile Lux shows her fellow soldiers the virtue of magic. Jarvan returns to capital alongside Avarosans, hell, even Anivia. They are able to take Demacia back with the help of new opressed and Jarvan, seeing the results of genocide and understanding the possibility of a new riot establishes mages as a legal citizens. That opens great storylines where people are not willing to accept mages so easily as a part of their community. I feel like deep stories of discrimination are not told in lol universe enough. Fears: Riot is afraid to kill, maim or alter their champions in any way, and I cannot imagine a good conclusion to the conflict without the death of Sylas. They can lock him up again but that would in my opinion defeat the purpose of his whole arc. I also believe that he should not have a redemption arc or an arc where he changes his mind. There are nothing worse than a self-doubting leader. Hopes: I want to see a fight between Kayle and Morgana during the conflict. P. S. I hope Skyen sees this, love to hear his insights. I also believe that stories where villains are completely right or just can and should be told. I feel like a story where a hero is framed as villian are not told enough

@Quanatan

3 жыл бұрын

@Gage Acosta what I meant is personal vengeance of Sylas. There is a difference between personal vengeance and a general feeling against something that is perceived by rebels/revolutionaries as injustice IMO.

“The river that everything drags is known as violent, but nobody calls violent the margins that arrest him.” I always find funny how this "centrist" and "moderate" view always demands moral superiority (often almost perfection) from the rebels while contempts itself with the sligthest demonstration of compassion and progress from the opressors. Sylas is the bad guy because he wants vengeance instead of being of an "uncompassionate all-rational inhuman justice paragon", while characters like Garen, Jarvan IV and his father are represented as conflicted figures who deserve our simpathy and only did bad things because of societal pressure (even the King himself who had all the power to change this but did not had the balls to do it until the consequences of his actions went to bite his noble ass). When talking about the morality of social movements we must consider the conditions in which side took their choices: progressive demacain nobles could choose to stop the Mageseekers and try to compensate the damage suffered by mages (yes, it would be very hard and would challenge powerful traditional institutions, but was never imposible) or just accept the opression and hope to "change the view on magic for the better" without any real action towards this goal (guess which one they chose?). Sylas, on the other hand, could choose between stealing Lux magic and kill the soldiers or... die?

@yurinabesima

3 жыл бұрын

@@am1na1996 I can totally agree with the notion that magic is dangerous and Demacia should not let it run free in order to protect the country, but a genocidal practice against mages by a birth condition is WAY overboard and self destructive. Throughout the centuries the crown could have slowly turned the policy from persecution to vigilance and from vigilance to conditional permission to use magic (and this is just an example), but they chose to keep the status quo and here we are now.

Ok, so... I was unpleasantly surprised when I saw that miniature and title. It seemed radical to me and as if you were missing the point of the storyline. Throughout the video I was preparing to write a long, comprehensive essay in the comments comparing the situation in Demacia to historical evvents. But at about 10:00 I realised I didnt have to. You are 100 percent right and I completetely agree with you. Both Sylas's and Demacians' actions are misguided and usually despicable. But now that I think of it, we dont dwell on the consequences of the opression that much, and it is a major problem with this storyline. So, yeah, what started as an extensive critique ended up as praises. CURSE YOU, TB SKYEN!!! But seriously, good work and I wish you a quick recovery, so that you can go back to making your great content.

it's a great video, i'm glad you're speaking politics and this type of stuff and somehow the robot voice works weel with it? hope you'll do more of this kind of videos in the future, wish for your teeth to get better!!

Maybe it’s framed that way consciously to parallel their society. I doubt the underground prisoners would be at the forefront of regular damacian lives. Also, why do you think Sylas should be perfect? Maybe he is a little messed up after what he’s gone through.

I think there is one good angle for sylas to be a great traffic villain: he's mentally broken from solitary confinement during his formative years. Solitary confinement can drive anyone mad, make it a child learning how to act for their whole life and sylas can both be 100% right, and the exact sort of villainous mage demacia fears because they created him. I could see him torn between what he believes is right and his own broken psyche

I liked the video topic. And I think all your points are justified. I'd like some LoR cards covering the suppressed mages, sylas as a champion and some interavtions between cards. I think LoR is a great tool to expand the storry. They did such a great job with the mage seekers for example