Our tier list rankings and how we define them: S = Auto-include staple. You power down decks by not running this A = Amazing. Powerful for a large percentage of decks. B = Great but narrow. Powerful for a small percentage of decks. C = Average. Not great outside a handful of very specific decks. Could be a budget replacement. D= Have a specific reason. We avoid running these cards unless our jank themes require it.

@totakekeslider3835

Жыл бұрын

So Sword of Body and Mind is definitely S-tier with this rating system - of course, only if by “decks” you meant “bulk binders.”

@Greg501-

Жыл бұрын

@@totakekeslider3835 10/10 better than Once and Future

@darkflame9410

Жыл бұрын

So... I actually think Crim and Richard were absolutely right about B&M. Seth and Tomer, your arguments kinda seemed like the assumption is every deck is a secret reanimator deck, but Richard and Crim are more right: most decks typically will run 1-2 reanimation pieces at most, unless that's specifically their goal. And other then that, losing 1 of cards you need is actually a pretty big deal, not to mention I can't even count on both hands the number of times recently I've been hit by a B&M and they milled my reanimation suite, making it totally useless to me. I've gone from thinking cards garbage to agreeing with Crim, its unironically one of the best swords (though all the swords truthfully have been outpaced, even in voltron decks).

@josephhawkins7974

Жыл бұрын

Sword of Body and Mind within Swords: 8/10, ten being best Sword of Body and Mind as an include in my decks? 5/10

Richard has completely gaslighted Seth into thinking removal is bad

@kylecarlson1228

Жыл бұрын

Spot removal is bad early to midgame, commander has changed a lot since 10 years ago when we played value removal to grind out the game. The format is much more proactive than it once was.

@RyanEglitis

Жыл бұрын

Removal is bad...unless you need it - then it's amazing.

@Gingerbreadley

Жыл бұрын

@@kylecarlson1228it’s repeatable which means it’s not really spot removal. And it’s amazing early game because every rock you blow up is mana your opponents don’t have. And instead of making people mad it makes people be nice to you because if they aren’t you will blow up their things. I don’t think it’s too 4 or anything but it’s not bottom 2 or 3

@kylecarlson1228

Жыл бұрын

@@Gingerbreadley It's almost never going to kill the best targets in your opponents deck, which is what you want removal to do in this day and age. I dont necessarily buy the aggro thing but the effect is only desirable if it's as powerful an effect as like aura shards which works fast enough to just plague wind the opponents artifacts and enchantments. This will take awhile to make a dent in a lot of metas and at the end of the day you're just getting bits of incremental value that aren't necessarily increasing your win %. The cast is right that lowering an opponents win % in commander doesn't mean you absorb that lost %, it depends a lot on the board and decks being played.

@darthsnarf

Жыл бұрын

generic spot removal is kind of bad/average, but if you have removal that even remotely synergizes with your theme it easily goes to s tier , for example, enchantment spot removal in an enchantress deck

Every Richard scenario: all your opponents are doing nothing and have been doing nothing, until you cast whatever decent+ card is being discussed and then you suffer the terrible wrath of all these 3 undeveloped boards.

@atle853

Жыл бұрын

I mean... yeah we see that every episode.

@vel0xraperio

Жыл бұрын

When you consider who's in his regular playgroup, this makes way too much sense.

@kobisjeruk

Жыл бұрын

Couldnt disagree more. This is more of Phil scenario rather than Richard. Richard is more of an unassuming janky player that seems to be non threatening until he flips the script (not until 1-2 people duke it out and take out each other) and manage to 'somehow eek out' a victory in the end while everyone else say "Why do we keep letting this happen? Why do we let Richard get away with it?". Richard has the highest winrate on commander clash out of anyone. He was never the archenemy (until it was too late). People are aware of it and yet more often than not it still results in him winning anyway. If you think this is a Richard scenario, you musnt have been watching commander clash for long.

@ammonaustin9081

Жыл бұрын

​@@kobisjeruk The thing is, Richard arguments only work for the Goldfish meta. At any LGS, Richard is getting crushed

@crss29

Жыл бұрын

@@kobisjeruk I was referring to the scenario from which Richard always arguments against good cards he doesn't like. My comment is not about, nor does it refer to, gameplay. You couldn't disagree more with a comment that is not the one you replied to. I do watch Commander Clash gameplay often. And I know Richard has a high win rate. I find Richard's high win rate on Commander Clash an uncompelling argument for him being a good player with knowledge and skills applicable to the wider EDH community. All players in Commander Clash always play the same way and make the same mistakes. They play to entertain, not to win. And have little need to play better. That, or they have no insight into the game and capacity to learn. Or they let the person who pays them win a little more. I have an over 60% win rate in my playgroup. I don't make the mistake of thinking this can be projected into a different meta with different circumstances. It only means I know my meta well. And I can tell you he would be crushed by the wayside in my meta.

Missed opportunity for "Sword of Tier and List"

Richard: Cards being good means that cards are bad.

The main thing I learned in this is to run more bloodmoon

Crim killed me with Sword of WAP

32:43 welcome to commander clash where playing any removal at all is worse than letting your opponent keep their game winning artifact

@kylecarlson1228

Жыл бұрын

You obviously want instant speed removal for game winning permanents, Richard's argument makes sense based on the way he plays.

@edhdeckbuilding

Жыл бұрын

i agree that was a pretty weird comment. and not a good reason to avoid playing certain cards.

@liamfoote7164

Жыл бұрын

I think the argument is repeated artifact specific removal is not great in most cases. You want some amount of an effect that can kill game winning threats. In those cases the sword is not really what you are after.

@ammonaustin9081

Жыл бұрын

​@@liamfoote7164 Removal is always good. Repeatable Removal is even better. Being scared is a horrible argument

@liamfoote7164

Жыл бұрын

@@ammonaustin9081 it's not bad, but you don't necessarily care to spend 5 mana and make attacks to blow up a signet each turn. If there are artifact decks then yeah I think it's value goes way up.

I'm not in love with Richard and Seth's "it's bad to blow up someone's artifact cus they'll be mad at you". If you applied that reasoning consistently no one would play any interaction. Don't counterspell, they'll be mad at you. Don't wrath, they'll be mad at you. Don't swords their commander, they'll be mad at you. It's way more fun if everyone learns to play interaction and then people also learn not to be mad about it because interactive games are the norm.

@falconje11

Жыл бұрын

Agree completely, take on the biggest threat, and if you are ahead, then everything you can do to hold everyone else back is locking down your win. If you kill my artifact when I'm the threat, fair game, but I'm not going to retaliate unless you have stuff that further threatens me. If you are ahead and trying to hold me back, I'm already targeted on you because you are the one closest to winning. The "don't interact because there will be retribution" is a playgroup problem to me. I don't do retribution, I aim to hit the threats that are likely to prevent me winning, and I expect others to do the same to my board.

@ammonaustin9081

Жыл бұрын

They talk like they're always playing scared. More worried about not losing than trying to win

@MTGGoldfish

Жыл бұрын

It's not that you shouldn't interact, it's more that blowing up a random mana rock isn't worth making an enemy at the table.

@CrimsonQueso

Жыл бұрын

Interaction is only for threats (to you). If you're proactive with interaction you're not only letting an opponent who would've wasted their interaction hold onto it, but you actually are making enemies for possibly no benefit, a net negative for yourself.

@nathannjh

Жыл бұрын

If you don’t make enemies the idea is to fly under the radar and come out like a storm. Win the game out of nowhere.

Tomer in sword discussion: how many different rogue decks can there be? Tomer during blue board wipes: Sea monster tribal!

@erysecret

Жыл бұрын

I think he meant rogue as in, Rogue. like the creature type!

@BobardeZanzibar

Жыл бұрын

@@erysecret So did I. Way more ways and commanders for rogues than sea monsters.

@erysecret

Жыл бұрын

​@@BobardeZanzibar Which Rogue commander is good in sea monsters? I always thought rogues as low to the ground, mill strategies, etc.

Seth's face when hearing Richard's arguments for UG Sword is the same one my father made when I told him I was majoring in art.

@salfontana3880

Жыл бұрын

@9:15

@brandondrake4609

Жыл бұрын

So the correct face was made.

@StrykerLee

Жыл бұрын

Lmfao

Everything else aside, the fact that Body and Mind’s trigger is “I cut you and a wolf came out of the wound” is top tier

Am I crazy to think Sinew and Steel is a great A rank sword? It's such a beating to be able to smash an artifact every turn, and it gets nutty with liquimetals

I am all for a Seth vs Richard rap battle

@SickOfItAll1988

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the voice ai that's used for those president videos should be good enough to have them battle each other, right?

@SickOfItAll1988

Жыл бұрын

There definitely is enough material to train it online, probably way more than from the presidents combined?

@brendans1983

Жыл бұрын

EPIC RAP BATTLES OF HITHTORY!! 🥳

Can’t wait for Richard to say feast and famine is bad lol (Of course his logic was it’s soo good it’s actually bad)

@RyanEglitis

Жыл бұрын

tHiS cArD iS bAd BeCaUsE iT's So GoOd PeOpLe WiLl KiLl yOu FoR iT!

@m424786

Жыл бұрын

When he says this it just tells me the card is really good. And I ignore the "logic" he's trying to use to say it's bad.

@altromonte15

Жыл бұрын

if you think about it, dockside extortionist is bad, really, because opponents will try to counter it before it even hits the field.

@MistaHoward

8 ай бұрын

"It draws aggro" is the Commander equivalent of "dies to doom blade"

So according to Ricard's Logic, Sword of FaF is bad because it paints a target on your back. I'm so tired of this logic as it suggest that all tier 0 cards (Dockside, Rhystic study.. etc) are bad too. There is a reason they put a target on your back. It is amazing card.

@kylecarlson1228

Жыл бұрын

The way he frames it for content is purposefully a bit overblown but his core concept is correct. I've cut Smothering Tithe from decks for being too scary without the ability to do much with the mana. Your deck needs to take advantage of the power in step with the increase in attention you get, one of the main issues playing Voltron in commander is that it looks scarier than it is and people use removal on swords frequently because they misevaluate how powerful they are.

@victorperron8092

Жыл бұрын

I think you got his point wrong. While I disagree that Sword of Feast and Famine is a bad sword, his point is that it's the kind of card that paints a target on your back AND doesn't provide the necessary resources to fight against this archenemy status. Dockside, Rhystic Study and other such generic best card provide the boost to fight back against this. FaF doesn't generate card advantage and the mana it generates requires a few hoops (having multiple lands, a creature to equip, a player without interaction/blockers). Sword of Feast and Famine is a good sword, but perhaps it's problem is that people think it is instantly the biggest threat on the table and that it will generate so much value. Yes it does, but just as much as a Bear Umbra or a mana doubler.

@crimsongoat7291

Жыл бұрын

@@victorperron8092 Yeah I think you're right about being able to fully utilise the sword. I just sometimes find it weird when they exaggerate the negatives with a card, because I believe it ultimately comes down to the people you play with and the power levels of their decks.

@crimsongoat7291

Жыл бұрын

@@kylecarlson1228 I experienced the same problems and I had to cut out some of my extra turn spells from my Imoti Casade deck as people would just finish me off before I could do anything. Ultimately comes down to the power levels of the decks youre playing against and the mind sets of those players

@sunstrid3r44

Жыл бұрын

but he didnt said the card is bad, he gave it an A... he was explaining that the card isnt good in every scenario

I would make a drinking game out of every time someone's only argument against a good card is archenemy/target/politics but then I would die.

@bennettwadekamper8238

Жыл бұрын

It makes sense as an argument for world beaters. But some moderately valuable cards get way overblown as archenemy targets.

I feel like body and mind has a niche in rouges, mill, or scarabgod decks. But its hard to convince me past that. Ironically the wolf part is more interesting since that protects your suited up creature from edicts.

@RyanEglitis

Жыл бұрын

9 turn clock, baby!

@51gunner

Ай бұрын

Good point about edict. What does WR voltron fear most? Edicts, and boards it can't swing into. Wolf token can protect from some edicts (not Soul Shatter) and pro-green lets you swing past Timmy when Timmy has Timmy'd the board up to the max.

i like sinew and steel. great way to deal with artifacts for colors that don't do it well (black and blue) and is one of the few swords that can hit targets by another opponent. connecting means you can kill any artifact or planeswalker on the battlefield.

@jadegrace1312

Жыл бұрын

@@jocas94 Underdark Rift is 6 mana, loses you a land, takes a land drop, and is worse removal. Oh yeah and the land doesn't make colored mana.

@51gunner

Ай бұрын

And because it's "Up to" you can choose to skip the artifact destruction if politicking is really that important. They talk about how there's not that many planeswalkers, but I feel like that's a false choice - the planeswalkers you DO see, you may REALLY want gone.

Body and Mind is actually top for my Slicer Equipment deck. Slicer suffers from leaving you defenseless against other opponents creatures, being able to pump out wolves gives you blockers that you need.

@ammonaustin9081

Жыл бұрын

An equipment with vigilance essentially gives you that same benefit except your equip creature is going to be better than a 2/2 wolf

@bryanbaker8663

Жыл бұрын

Bro. It doesnt matter if Slicer has vigilance. He's not on your side of the field to block if you are doing your thing.

@Optimator7

Жыл бұрын

@@ammonaustin9081 Why not both

@ammonaustin9081

Жыл бұрын

@@bryanbaker8663 Oh you mean that mono red commander. Yeah, way better cards to run than Body and Mind for that. Slicer will give you tons of life gain from multiple attacks. Only thing you have to worry about is commander dmg

@Darkrider-pr2fz

Жыл бұрын

​@@Lucarioguild7 your opponents don't get any wolves?

Sword of Light and Shadow gets to be a B solely because it has the best protection colors for removal spells. Feast and Famine probably has the best protection colors for evasion, but that protection is so good

People, get yourself someone who looks at you like Crim looks at Sword of BaM.

@rixaxeno7167

7 ай бұрын

I wanna run it just so I can say "I bam you for 10"

I think there might be something too the swords getting a better based on what colors they protect against. Sword of Light and Dark protect from black and white, two the strongest colors for single target removal spells in commander. It may not make them much better but I think protection is getting slept on.

@51gunner

Ай бұрын

Protection from Green is something I'm starting to really value, and in my Red/White decks I'm starting to really dislike having protection from my own colors because it'll knock off equipment I'm running. The only two green & not-my-colors options are Green/Blue and Green/Black and Green/Black is the most expensive one. It's green that's more likely lately to start chucking crazy amounts of power & toughness on the field and actually block straight-up against a voltron'd up commander.

I am more afraid of Richard with a Dowsing Dagger than Crim with a Body and Mind

I wish the other thing they could mention for voltron decks is that sometimes it's nice to run Auras and actually the white protection is antisynergistic. I actually cut Hearth and Home out of my Wyleth deck as I had Sentinel's Eyes or All That Glitters or Timely Ward in hand and realized that I actually didn't want to equip Hearth and Home

I realy enjoy steel and sinew, it helped me in several decks in colors with bad options for artifact remival. I am just feeling sad we never got a sword to deal with enchantments. Edit: also liquimetal torque exists

@PhetaFox

Жыл бұрын

I freaking love torque!

I'll say, as someone who plays mesmeric orb in a Sidisi deck, people really can't handle the mill or make use of it as much as I think the Clash Crew think. Maybe it's just my pod, but it really seems like it's better than people give it credit for. Even if they can recur something, now they're having to use that spell once to recur it, rather than playing a card, having it be removed, and then recurring it.

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

Also people seems to forgot the fact that when milling you're not just milling recurable permanents, you're also milling instants, sorceries, etc which are harder to recur unless they're a spellslinger deck. And I also have a sidisi deck and mesmeric orb is my all time favorite card!

@chadcharest9891

Жыл бұрын

Depends on your meta. Two out of three of my decks have recursion in the command zone. Horde of Notions loves when you mill me. And plays Endurance, so I can just shuffle back up if you're anywhere near milling me out. And I use Ravos, Soultender as a partner in another, with Kodama, and Umori as a companion. So the milling non-creatures is impossible in that one. It's all equally recurable. My table regulars include Teshar, a few iterations of lands... Dauthi Voidwalker is the most hated card at the table. Shuts down pretty much everyone except whoever played it.

@Nova-zk5gn

Жыл бұрын

@@chadcharest9891 yeah but you're just talking about your deck. A card isn't bad because you're one maybe two decks can survive it

We’re gonna need an episode of everyone on Clash playing their favorite sword

Gotta say, I was disappointed they went with their BU sword instead of the one Crim suggested a few months back.

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

Ikr once and future is such a bad and narrow card design. Crim's design was a lot more in line with the colors and just generically better.

@RyanEglitis

Жыл бұрын

@@Sinistra359 Yup - their's reads as "this is good in Standard"

@3N3MYKN1GHT

Жыл бұрын

@@RyanEglitis unless you can cast timewalk or ancestral recall with it. Def bad in commander tho

@RyanEglitis

Жыл бұрын

@@3N3MYKN1GHT If you can cast those cards in your format, you've messed up if you're playing _any_ of these swords.

@3N3MYKN1GHT

Жыл бұрын

@@RyanEglitis vintage stoneblade, is on one max, def not once and future tho, would love to see if it goes in a canlander snap deck, for double the double the snap.

Body and Mind: 2 - Only slightly higher than War and Peace because it does provide a body for chump blocking in return. Multiple times it's saved me because I needed the wall of blockers.

Tomer needs to start running Wave of Vitriol.

@vaporeon344

Жыл бұрын

I suggested this on a commander clash episode! I totally agree with this. This, and Path to Exile, and ESPECIALLY back to basics.

What I learn every time from these discussions is Richard, Tomer and Seth all favor deterministic magic that can be calculated. Crim is 100% yolo make you have it and forced interaction.

Sword of Body and Mind can technically burn someone for 20 when its paired up with an active Bloodchief Ascension. Thats something.

It would’ve been nice to see some focused, broken-out data for each one in this list. Maybe have a discussion beforehand about which colors are good to have Protection from, then the effects, which decks need those effects, how good the Protection is in those decks, yada yada

Great podcast guys, feels like a late birthday present swords are my favorite cycle in Magic

I love how intense this convo got this is a good episode

I play Body and Mind in N’gathrod for mill. It performs so well that I have tried it in non-mill decks and it did pretty decent. Great to block against gigantic green creatures.

Best crew! This is going to be amazing! Can’t wait to listen on my commute!

I think Crim has a point about body and mind's mill aspect actually being pretty useful. The other guys talked about how since mill is random, it's bad, but unless the person getting milled has some way to draw extra cards, they're randomly drawing ONE card to B&M's TEN cards milled. Having been milled before, not necessarily by B&M, I've definitely felt what Crim has talked about where I only have so many ways to use my graveyard and so I'm then essentially hoping on 10 to 1 odds that I draw one of those few ways before it gets milled.

@LVL99Totodile

Жыл бұрын

Eh, the one time I played against it everyone was literally volunteering to get hit by it... If people actively want me to use my "S+" tier sword on them maybe that's a sign I missevaluated the card by a tier or 5

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

It's even better if you're able to mill their recursion cards lol. Also most recursion spells recur permanents, and since you're milling sorceries, instants, lands, etc also, I think the mill has some upside and it's not all downside like they say.

@Icameron259

Жыл бұрын

Here's the issue: any time that you failed to mill a key card, what you actually did was mill them 10 cards *closer* to drawing their key card - so on average it does nothing in a vacuum. Then as mentioned on the podcast, many decks utilise their graveyards in one way or another, either through recursion or Delve/Escape. I will grant that it can help to mitigate tutors, though, since you reduce the pool they can tutor from.

@uphillwalrus5164

Жыл бұрын

Your deck is randomized. The odds of you having seen those cards you milled are just as likely as the rest of your library. Is it suddenly impossible to win with 90 cards because 10 cards you really like got milled? Hating mill is a meme

On the Sword of Hearth and Home discussion. It's so crazy to me that people run so few basic lands now. The best and most efficient ramp is typically grabbing basic lands (Cultivate, Kodamas Reach, Rampant Growth etc..) I'm more prone to running at bare minimum 10 basics even in 5C just so I have access to the best ramp in the format. There are cards like nature's lore and three visits which can grab duals efficiently but there are far more that grab basics.

@LucasRoth42

Жыл бұрын

Just because there are more it doesn't mean they're better. There are so many ramp that fetch non-basics that there's no reason to play cultivate, kodamas reach and etc at all

@darkflame9410

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, I think that's actually a point against H&H. The more basic land ramp you run, the worse H&H gets, since your other ramp is actively taking away the number of times it can actually do anything (rampwise). H&H would be best in a deck where its your only land-based ramp, AND you run a lot of basics. So ironically, its best home is probably in mono-black decks where lots of swamps is a plus, and that's about it.

Seth on B&M: Everyone plays recursion and can use their graveyard! Milling is bad! Seth on L&S: It's colorless recursion, some colors struggle with recursion!

@kovala

Жыл бұрын

He’s right though. Sword of light and shadow is specifically creature recursion, which blue and red struggle with, so it’s useful for them. However all colors have *some* sort of recursion. Blue has instant/sorcery recursion, red has artifact, black has creatures, etc. so sword of body and mind is indeed more dangerous to play on a broader level.

I think once and future is incredibly slept on. I mean maybe if someone hits me with body and mind sword imagine how more amazing once and future is lol

Body of mind isn't that bad lol. Definitely not S but also not D. The mill can be devastating and even more devastating if you mill their recursion cards lol I mean 10 cards is a lot and youre milling instants, sorceries, lands etc. I'd like to think of the mill as pseudo removal, more akin to like discard. Everytime I see it I pray they don't swing at me lol. I agree with Richard, the best of the worst swords lol so I'll give it a 6 out of 10.

@spacesquid4298

Жыл бұрын

Mill is not removal, come on man

@Sinistra359

Жыл бұрын

​@@spacesquid4298 I said, pseudo removal since they don't have access to it normally without some sort of recursion.

@burnsboy101

Жыл бұрын

@@spacesquid4298reading the comment explains the comment

@spacesquid4298

Жыл бұрын

@@Sinistra359 its just not removal - they lost no card advantage

@samsprague3158

Жыл бұрын

@@spacesquid4298 unless you mill a critical tutor target

"we're in the sword of Body and Mind meta" Funniest thing I've heard in a minute

As the local mill player at my LGS, Seth has to be high as balls here. Mill isn't the most common strategy, but 90% of the time when im running my high-speed mill deck I become archenemy #1. Because everyone hates having their best cards milled and unable to be used. This is part of why I cant handle these tier-lists they make alot of the time. Half of them are only looking at them from a CEDH standpoint, where mana is infinite, and we might as well be playing yugioh with how much the graveyard matters. In normal, day-to-day magic gameplay, body and mind is a great sword. Edit: in addition, green and red are best protection colors...because swords are meant for protection against creatures, if you want removal protection just use indestructible or hexproof for gods sake.

Crim memeing Body and Mind like it's going out of style. (Which it is. lol)

@nykthosacolyte5710

Жыл бұрын

You are assuming he is memeing.... When really it's great in specific decks which does favor crim getting extra targets to animate and being able to exile their yard

@adammorin2955

Жыл бұрын

@@nykthosacolyte5710 not even in specific decks heck i run it in angels and its the only equipment i run

6:20 yes sure, if you go to edhrec and look at the top 100 commanders, over 50 of them have Blue or Green. You can also pick any other 2 colors and start counting the top 100 list, and you'll find over 50 commanders in those colors as well. The issue is if you look at all those Blue and/or Green commanders, how many of them do things that target creatures? How many of them are usually attacking or blocking? The protection doesn't matter LOL

Feast and famine is bad, because you become arch enemy. This quote alone proofes that its insane xD

Sword of War and Peace is fantastic in Karazikar. You're actively drawing you and your opponents cards and losing life, so this compliments that gameplan perfectly.

Crim is just selling something that cannot be bought. A true genius of Trading.

I've never been able to use swords in Commander, but the blue/black sword is a sneaky addition to my Historic Burn deck. *Thanks for the Content* !

I love these ranking videos. On every card at least one person has a completely wild hot take.

As the resident equipment player in my group id definitely say sword of hearth and home is my favorite sword. Even if I have like 6 basics. If I can ramp 3 times off of it I'm probably winning.

Finally completed the set of swords for my ragavan edh deck.

@BobardeZanzibar

Жыл бұрын

You're a monster.

Coming back from the commander clash where Crim proves the usefulness of Body and Mind makes his fervent defending of the card so much funnier.

I think Forge and Frontier is overrated. People say Feast/Famine has a downside since you can just not have cards to play (and they're not wrong, if you get it out quick you're likely equipping, untapping two lands, MAYBE playing another mana rock, and passing), but by the same metric, anyone who plays coiling oracle, explore, or uro knows you often don't have lands to play (that's why they cantrip, it's a sub-two mana effect), and all those cards let you at least keep what you draw. 50% of the time Forge flips a useless card and with every hit you're less likely to have a land to play. No one plays explore (granted, it's green and you can just play actual ramp), I'd rather run sword of the animist every time.

1:15:27 Technically, in a strict sense, plusing yourself and minusing your opponent are both “card advantage”. As in an advantage over your opponent. So feast and famine does actually ramp and card advantage like the other two. People just see you drawing as less threatening to their gameplan (for good reason). Also, richards point only proves just how far and away more powerful feast and famine is on its own than the others. The fact that even a bad deck durdling becomes archenemy from a sinlge equipment just means the equipment is THAT GOOD.

I’m very curious about this conversation. I started playing the game on Arena around the end of BroWar, and my first deck that ever won “consistently” revolved around putting Sword of Forge and Frontier on the DoubleStrike Jawbone Duelist. Double Strike is already a powerful KeyWord, but getting to see (and maybe play) two cards off the top TWICE if you get through, i love that

Unironically believe sword of body and mind is better than I used to. It has legit synergies that other swords could never have! Dauthi Voidwalker, recurring your opponents creatures, Guiltfeeder, etc.

Once and future actually fits perfectly into my Octavia deck. Can’t wait.

I use the sword of once and future in my yidris wheel deck to recast the sorceries with no cost and suspend, the options are a tutor, a bribery or a wheel, its awesomeeee

Sword of Feast/Famine is my fave !!

I use Body and Mind in my Egon Voltron/Stax deck. I use Leyline of the Void in conjunction with the sword, so when things are milled into the graveyard, they're exiled instead and opponents can't recur anything.

I was just thinking about this the other day!

Tomer, we need a tier list just for slicer swords

Surprised at the arguments against Sinew & Steel. Even if you don't want to take out mana rocks how many combo pieces are artifacts or artifacts used to protect combo pieces. You don't even need to hit the danger player to get the trigger, either, so you can politic in the hit. I still wouldn't rank it high, because cost to value, but the idea 'there might be no good targets' is baffling to me.

Sword of Once and Future has a use in Sunforger decks, too. It can't cast ALL of the spells Sunforger puts into your bin, but it can still hit some of the better ones (Swords, Path, Deflecting Palm, Steelshaper's Gift).

@51gunner

Ай бұрын

I really like it in red/white Voltron decks because it lets you re-use those tutors, and the colors it provides protection from aren't your colors. You'll never nonbo out something like being unable to equip other pieces of equipment in your deck. White/red also tends to struggle a little with card advantage, and while Once and Future isn't drawing cards, being able to surveil away something you don't need at the moment is nice.

I definitely think body and mind is somewhere inbetween Crim and Tomer’s views… which means Richard is of course right lol

I’ve been liking once in future in my Balmor deck.

Feel like once and future is being slept on. A lot of tutors are 1 to 2 mana and being able to cast them multiple times in a single turn can rocket your win con or give you access to all your answers. Not to mention surveil two is fantastic for reanimation and stacking your draws.

I love Crim’s input on Body and Mind 😂 so entertaining 😊

The X/Y swords are subjective except for F/F, F/I, and H/H. Tgey can all pull good weight, but it heavily depends on what colors you're up against regularly, and both your own and your opponent's strats. They're all very serviceable, but you need to make sure you even need what the swords offer, even the better ones.

27:22 In the case of a full grip, this card deals *nine* damage! That's almost a quarter of the way there, plus whatever the body itself deals. It's not more than a C, but it's actually a very relevant amount of damage with good protection colours.

I'm %100 with Richard on Light and Shadow, nobody played this thing even when there were only 2 swords!

If you are playing all swords you should be trying to have double strike as well. Milling 20 cards with sword of body and mind can easily finish a player off late game.

Now WOTC needs to make a set called 'Swords of Excenwye', featuring reprints of all 10 swords, and all sorts of equipment shenanigans cards!

How in the world could the forget the best one of all: Sword of Dungeons and Dragons!

I think they're really underrating Sword of Once and Future. For all those multitudes of red/white voltron/equipment decks out there it's: - Protection from two colors that aren't your two colors, including one famous for single-target removal. - Card selection in a color pair that chronically struggles with card draw - A way to re-cast cheap equipment tutor spells that you're likely running (Steelshaper's Gift, Open the Armory) or white's best removal (path, swords, dispatch). Honestly, +2/+2 and protection from two colors is fine. It's not Sword of Feast and Famine levels of good but it's not useless. Considering that a lot of these voltron-style decks are sort of toolboxy and go get equipment they need at a given moment, just having it in the deck so you can go slap the Dimir deck with impunity is worth something. Richard is talking about "five mana" - but no self-respecting equipment deck pays full price for equipping things; it's three mana. Three. Oh, and it costs like five bucks instead of whatever the really expensive ones are up to. Budget commander Tomer should at least factor that in.

I'm loving the live fact checking. Very fun way to add legitimacy to arguments.

Sunforger+ Once and Future. Still narrow but the value can't be denied.

I like Light and Shadow. I think Disentomb effects in general are underrated. Maybe not as good as card draw early game, but past turn 4 I would rather play disentomb effects. What is likely to be in your graveyard? The best creature you've played so far, which is likely better than the average card you will draw.

Honestly, I've found myself cutting all the swords from my decks, it doesn't fit any of them. Even my Skullbriar voltron deck only plays fire and ice for a bit of CA (and I might cut that one too now for the new Ozolith), I prefer something more synergistic than just raw power. And if you don't play white and can equip for 0, then rebuilding a board and paying that 2 mana to equip can get annoying.

The War and Peace Sword is not useless, but super narrow - I'm running it in my Neheb, the Eternal deck: gives protection grom all my red board wipes, deals damage, what gives me more mana after combat and additionally gives some life points, which can help me survive dancing on the edge of burning the board.

this weekend i was using sword of hearth and home and blinking stoneforge mystic. super busted

I know its a sword podcast, but i kinda want to see tomer run more blood moon effects to punish the lack of basics.

@vaporeon344

Жыл бұрын

Blood moon is only the beginning. Back To Basics is the Gamer Paradise.

I just started the video, but if there is no mention of the Sword of Dungeons and Dragons, I'm going to be a little sad inside. I could accept no mention of the Sword of Vengence or the Sword of Kaldra, etc., but the Sword of D&D fits the X and Y parameters.

@ZypherWildfire

Жыл бұрын

I am sad now...

Seth, yes a deck is randomized and if you mill someone of X cards, you might put the card they wanted on top of the deck, but that's not how it works. The thing is, if you mill X cards, you have a certain % of chance of milling a combo piece as oppose to 0% if you dont mill them. The point is not about changing the decks order, it's about the chances of milling a combo piece.

The Haunt of Hightower is the only Commander I have that is worthy enough to hold my masterpiece Sword of Body and Mind. 10/10 equipment

Your conversations are always so fun and thoughtful. Thanks!

It's rare I completely agree with any 1 host on an Mtg podcast, but Seth was really my champion on this episode. Very little he said I disagree with. Great points from everyone though, good back and forth.

Something important missed from this is how well each of them scale with double strike. They're combat damage triggers and boros is the most well supported equipment colour combination plus also the colours with the most double strike. Forge and frontier, fire and ice, truth and justice, war and peace are the ones which scale best with double strike I think. Hearth and home technically also yes but blink deck + double strike is less likely than, say, counters deck + double strike. War and peace is sneaky good for aggro with double strike. This is a factor that knocks down feast and famine, plus also the point Richard makes about how the power level is so high you become the archenemy so you need to have a strong deck to carry it to a win quickly. So with that in mind I'd say the order is: 1) Forge and frontier 2) Feast and famine 3) Fire and ice 4) Hearth and home 5) Truth and justice 6) Light and shadow 7) War and peace 8) Sinew and steel 9) Once and future 10) Body and mind Obviously a few there are higher when they're for a specific deck/reason (T+J counters, L+S need recursion, S+S need artifact removal).

Talking for Body and Mind I haven’t personally used it, but I have thought that gearing up a double strike creature or double combats like Aurelia and you almost have a mill engine in 1 card getting 20+ cards in a turn.

@Thoughtmage100

Жыл бұрын

Speaking from personal use, in the right deck it's an all-star. My Haunt of Hightower Voltron deck loves it. +2/+2 on equip, and +10/+10 on hit with flying and lifelink feels so good.

I really love the secret lair art on truth and justice. Want to put it in my cadeera deck but worried about the pro green lol

THEY MASSACRED MY BOY, SWORD OF ONCE AND FUTURE IS INSANE Alright, actually though, Sword of Once and Future is the newest sword, so I get the fact that the Commander meta game hasn't grasped what this sword ACTUALLY is suppose to do, this is not a general value sword where you're casting draw spells, but this easily ONE OF THE BEST REPEATABLE reanimation effects, in the game, AND letting you put your reanimation cards in the graveyard. A deck filled with cards like: - Reanimate - Persist - Living End - Stitch Together - Goryo's Vengeance - Exhume - Unmarked grave (Which can find Non-Legendary CARDS, including cards like reanimate, allowing you to cast it, put reanimate in the yard, the hit, and then reanimate using whatever reanimation spell you fetched) - Entomb (For the same reason of Unmarked Grave) - Shallow Grave - Literally any Non-black reanimation spells, such as Brought back and (Kinda) Regrowth if you're in green Sword of Once and Future is good in basically ANY reanimator deck, because of the semi-repeatable reanimation effect, protection from black being relevant to protect your commander, and since you'll (probably) be in black, can cast you're other generically good value cards that you're (also probably) running such as Night's Whisper, any removal spell ever, or Demonic tutor and other tutors like it. I think Seth missed that the best creature-spell mix deck, are usually reanimator decks. I will not stop posting this until this CRITICAL error, is rectified.

@raedien

Жыл бұрын

Yes thank you! And arguing you need a certain level of creatures is silly in a format where you are gaurenteed access to a creature if you want it from the CZ!

@thegeardude

Жыл бұрын

Also crazy in Feather Decks!

On Random milling vs graveyards: As someone with a (2 mana) Lazav graveyard deck, indiscriminately mill me as much as you like. I wouldn't have Mesmeric Orb in the deck if I was scared of getting the wrong cards milled.

Sword of BnM gives information if anything. Seeing what cards are in your enemy's deck is information that you can use Sword of SnS is a huge politic card. I completely agree that it's commander, there's so many problem artifacts; however if the table is playing and some one drops a walker or an artifact that needs got, you can sinew and steel an opponent who agrees to take the hit in order to nuke the target.

30:46 Sinew and Steel I think is on the middle or higher end of swords because it’s removal even for the players’ stuff you aren’t hitting.

@jackrosen1

Жыл бұрын

Coming from a planeswalker heavy meta it is so frustrating to see people hating on that sword.

@leandroesperanza8853

Жыл бұрын

Its the best sword, because its the only that can kill the others =P

Always interesting to listen to these lists. It is like a constant reminder that y'alls meta is weird :P Okay, mine might be the weird one... Hard to say. But I often find myself disagreeing with 2 or 3 of you for every card in every tier list lol. Makes it even more fun to watch.

My ranking: 1. Sword of Forge and Frontier 2. Sword of Feast and Famine 3. Sword of Hearth and Home 4. Sword of Truth and Justice 5. Sword of Fire and Ice 6. Sword of Light and Shadow 7. Sword of War and Peace 8. Sword of Sinew and Steel 9. Sword of Once and Future 10. Sword of Body and Mind

I was so excited today for my simic Imoti deck in Historic Brawl today... THREE TIMES, three times Sword of Body and Mind appear to wreck my day, savage