I agree with what Reiner Klimke was trying to do -- half of the marks should be given in warm up. Some of this looks pretty abusive, especially when you're not used to seeing it.

@MrQuabbi

2 жыл бұрын

i agree! 😄 my horse was often super motivated but also relaxed at the warm up. but in the arena it got super tense and so did I - we did not really ever get the high marks (and i stopped doing competitions at some point). including the warm up we would have probably had better chances 😅

@LM-ny1xd

9 ай бұрын

People should not get used to seeing abuse

But if anything is to change it has to be done through the judging. As long as something wins, everyone's going to get to do the same.

A big concern is the pole leading cuz it’s the hallmark of many things wrong in training and riding.

A horse in self carriage, will look "heavier" as it is collected through its body, one thing is affecting another, like tightened straps. While horses which aren't ridden and carrying themselves correctly, have this appearance of being really flexible and light, but in fact, the reason behind that, is that the "straps are lose" so it doesn't have any connection, and everything just goes everywhere.. Floppy legs, bad posture and so on..

Ah, the trusty invisible draw reins available to anyone with enough money and desire to achieve greatness in the world of competitive dressage.

Love this mare😍

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

How? You can't tell what she's like for all the propping up he did by yanking her head and spurring.

What happened ti Steffens riding?

@cornpop8586

2 жыл бұрын

Robert Dover.

Rolkur! Horrible riding that is very difficult to watch.

Ok, there's lots of opinions out there... I do know 2 things we all agree on. We love horses and the 'Big Lick' must stop. I'm going to start focusing on that crime with the Tennessee Walkers. There is undeniable abuse that's off the scale in that world.

@Galemor1

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely, horse abuse needs to be fought at every arena where it exists.

I actually think he is very fair with his corrections. He could give the horse more praise though when it did as he expected.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

That's sick. If you think this is any sort of riding you don't know about DRESSAGE. Everything screams abuse in this video. He doesn't let up on this Mars for one second. True dressage creates supplying by the movements not by yanking the head, excessive spurring, pinched leg, and using a whip. Horrible and disgusting.

@sarahwagland1559

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, the benevolent slave master. Bless him.

@westcoastjazz1

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, and I am classically trained. it looked to me like he was having a hard day with his 8 year old baby and was needing to correct her in the warm up ring. at no time do I see her pulled below the vertical (she goes below the vertical but it is her choice and part of her evasion tactic) or spurred into the bridle. at no time do I see the curb pulled horizontal or stress sweat on her. I do see alot of the original "long and low", asking her to carry herself and not make the rider do it, and he having to repeatedly lengthen his curb rein to try to keep her from laying on it. I do see stress sweat and horizontal curbs in several riders who are passing him, as well as a lot of very stiff horses who have long since stopped thinking.

@sarahwagland1559

3 жыл бұрын

@@westcoastjazz1 You may want to consider getting your money back. The horse is being pulled below the vertical but not in an obvious way. Well done, she is evading but ask yourself why she does not seek contact? It is as a result of her abusive training. Occasionally she relaxes and is at the point of seeking the bit but the rider misses the opportunity. He doesn't have a yielding hand. To centralise his stability he constantly brings his hands back to his core and so inhibits the horse. Weren't you taught to hold the horse through your seat and yield your hand to achieve self carriage from true engagement?

I'm sorry but compared to some of the others.... there's slack in the curb rein. He's not bracing against the horse and his hands seem very light.

@c5ster

3 жыл бұрын

Slack in the curb rein.

@cornpop8586

2 жыл бұрын

Slack in the reins do not equate to kindness or good riding. Everything he is doing is breaking down the horse, not building her up.

Can anyone tell me what was happening from 0:00 to 0:11? I am not an experienced dressage rider and to my eye this looked pretty rough, especially on the horse's mouth.

@amberblyledge7859

3 жыл бұрын

It was rough. What I think he was trying to do, which this was not how to do it, was force her into a frame and get her jazzed up. If your horse feels good you shouldn’t need that. The goal is to work with your PARTNER so that they want give you what you want without use of force. They are “hot” without being spooky or rude. Though there are also lazy horses.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

And the jabbing of spurs. His definition of dressage is yanking this horse until his chin touches his chest . With a curb bit besides! Pulling back on a horse = whoa. That's horse basics 101. Now, because the horse doesn't want to forward, big surprise there, he jabs the horse with his spur and squeezes with his legs. How also carries a whip so incase the spurs don't work he will whip her. This horse deserves a gold medal for putting up with this creep.

@westcoastjazz1

3 жыл бұрын

it looked to me like se was trying to lay on the bit (stiffen her neck and push against the bit, it is a form of evasion) and he was letting her know that we are not doing that today. Please note that he is in a snaffle at this point, so he rocks her head from side to side and gets to to stop stiffening and pushing against the bit. then he moves into the full bridle where it looks to me that he is fighting though the same issue there too. also note that he calls her a Baby at 8 years old

Bullying: Bullying is the use of force, pain, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate physicaly and mentaly. The behaviour is often repeated and habitual. Bullying is todays catch phrase in more spheres than one. We wonder what Oprah Winfrey will have to say on this subject, we really do and rather soon. When will we stop allowing it in dressage is the salient question here of course. As systemic as it is I don't mean bullying each other either but bullying of the horse into submission. Where is the picture of *"lightness, soft swing, willingness and confidence, no fear or tension, mental and physical harmony and happiness". Can a single pat on the neck be enough for these 13 minutes of physical and mental torture shown here, can the horse ever be repaid? * ( FEI Rule Book 2021. Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI).

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

So very well said. Where are other riders and judges at that the see this and stand by and do NOTHING. I hope people who read this will contact the FEI with complaints. Here is an email I sent this week, " After making numerous comments on You Tube videos of horses in the upper levels, I felt compelled to write your organization. If you see something, say something! There has been an increase of issues with horses during a test, prior to a test and/or in the warm up. Riders and trainers who use the rollkur method are using a method which is abusive to horses. We have judges rewarding this behavior by giving these riders favorable scores when even the simplest horse " layman " can see the artificial nature of the horses back neck, throughness, cadence and impulsion. These horses are not relaxed. There was one individual who was schooling at a show and the horses tongue was blue. We have Anky on videos teaching rollkur and what a wonderful training method it is. We have Isabel werth using this method as well. Her riding is atrocious as she bounces in the saddl, never really having a connected seat. Yet judges are giving her the high marks. It doesn't matter who the rider is. ALL should be judged fairly on the standards which should be exhibiting for a fair testing of horses and riders. The Isabel Werth video I saw was horrible. The changes were jerky. So much so it threw her forward. Her horse was flat, hollow backed, behind the vertical, and other things. She was scored higher than Charlitte DuJardin who rode an almost flawless test. (I have never heard Charlotte say anything openly about the subject). I submit to you she was robbed of a higher ranking in that test. One can only conclude that judges are political or incompetent. It's time you reject this type of training. When a rider and horse are clearly distressed, judges should be excusing riders from the test. Then, follow up with owners, riders and trainers about the infraction - Why they were dismissed. People at this level should be held to a higher standard. Judges should also take some time to walk through the barns and watch warm ups and training sessions. This is how you catch people in the acts of abuse. It's time your organization condone all types of abusive behavior on horses. Furthermore, if there is no procedure currently in place, judges should also be monitored for accuracy in their critique of riders taking tests.( It's time to stop it! For good! By the way, I saw McClain Ward at a show in Lake Placid. He was in a small training paddock away from the crows. As the horse jumped the fence they smacked it on the belly with a rod. Supposedly, this keeps the horse from hitting the jump. This is also abuse. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. (His dad). "

that mare is behind the vertical. should not be! all those getting upset w the use of flexion on the left rein, its just suppling. its a alot of give n take from the rider which is good if done correct. i suspect this mare may be stiff on the right. great video! ty so much!!!

@yashdeepahlawat4200

3 жыл бұрын

U are right she is stiff from the right and moreover he's working more on the left lead for his ease

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

Stiff on the right? Behind the vertical?? Reavertical? You checked your knowledge of Dressage at the door? Question behind the vertical because he's pulling her head there. One could only imagine right when the horse is forced in going around the ring with her nose stuffed in her chest. Yank and hold with the reins then abusively spur and use a whip to go forward. This goes against ever principal of dressage. If you want to supple a horse you do it by riding with softness and self carriage. This horse looks horribly uncomfortable. He pulls her head in then squeezes her sides with pinched legs. It really is very ugly. .

@sedg03

2 жыл бұрын

Dont care how good, or even great you are? Sometimes you it just doesnt sink in that the horse is stiff because it hurts or hasnt recovered from a twisty teailer ride, not enuff sleep, headache?, upset tummy? Sometimes youre in such an acvomplishment mode that you are just not paying attention. Or you just dont know, rider's training is lacking.... It happens. Helps if u teain & work w others who can help spot things you might just miss.

clearly abusive... should be handed to official equestrian organizations not just on KZread!!!!

@treigjmiller2847

3 жыл бұрын

Oh ffs 🙄

The overall problem is systemic. The judges know what is correct, they are not ignorant to what is going on here but politics demand that they play the game too. We need to find a way to insulate judges from the politics of the sport and hold them accountable for rewarding bad methods. The problem inherent to any subjective sport is that to be competitive at the high levels necessitates competitors buy into the over exaggerated style vs. what is technically correct.

bits , whip and fkn spurs ?

@elaineward542

3 жыл бұрын

All the money in the world from the Tech world sponsor to fund the trained horses worth millions for him to sit on, and push the buttons....and this jerk still can’t ride. 🤦‍♀️

@HopeCreekConnemara

3 жыл бұрын

He has no heart for the horses.

@sedg03

2 жыл бұрын

I cannot condemn him that fast. Their judges? Yes. Mare and rider may just be having a bad day together.

Disgusting... Pull this guy off this horse... How does this have anything to do with correctly developing the body off that poor animal.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

Amen! Pull the guy off is one of the best suggestions yet? 1other riders should be complaining to the FEI for this abusive riding. And where are judges who score this guy? Shame in them for standing by and allowing this abuse on a defenseless and compliant animal.

Used a shoer, we both knew an excellent shoer and partner who did dressage. My shoer told me hed been let in on a secret training session w dressage horses. What he told me angered me - i commented negatively? and lost good shoer :( What he said was- " they have to REALLY whip those horses to make them do what they do." I told him - no, they don't and glared at him (& i can glare w the best ;) . I repeated it. No. They dont have to whip the dressage horses to make them do dressage. He & i stared at each other.... good bye shoer~~ he chose to believe his expert friends- Dressage horses HAVE to be whipped to do dressage. i cld hardly believe it, those 2 were respected in their equine fields. But to let someone in on their "secret"? It makes what this man did, milke toast. Not working thru the bridle? Tail swishing? Judges need to have complaints lodged against judges, not riders, for allowing this. If they do this in public, judge? What are they doing, worse, in (secret) training? What.. judge... have you allowed to happen to the horses? Well. U kno what they say?.... U r a beginner rider if: u kick the horse to get him yo go forward, and if u pull on the reins to stop. ;) Guess for dressage thatd translate down to if u use ur legs spurs and kicks to compel impulsion? And u use your reins to restrain that into collection? = beginner rider. . Whats a shame? (*judges take note pls?) Is that everyone and i mean everyone sees this? And believes this is how to acvomplish wins. Same as the insurance scandals of killing horses for ins $$ that swept thru our horse world - everyone saw it? And repeated it :( I mean? If i was there and watched this? Wld i dare to stand up, walk out there and phydically stop him, shame him w my words? I dont think so. Scowl yes.

Détestable.. à part tirer dans la gueule de leurs chevaux.. s'passe rien

@lydiagould3090

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, I thought it was rough. Also at the beginning he kicked her a couple of times with the spur

Every non olympic rider and their opinion. 🙄 Steffan is probably one of the least abusive of other Olympic riders. Ive seen him scold more than 1 rider in a clinic for their corrections, even talking about how to tell if the horse hates its particular bit.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

I highly disagree! At the beginning he's spurring the horse harshly then yanking and cranking. Too bad the horse didn't buck him off. This is so offense. He also carries a whip. To add insult to injury - " let me crank your head into your chest as hard as I can. Now I will use my spur you and whip you if you won't go forward." Disgusting & offensive.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't excuse this riding. He is not riding in the dressage classical form of self carriage. It doesn't matter what their name is. But the rollkur is abusive in nature no matter what they say.

@sarahwagland1559

3 жыл бұрын

Are you an Olympic rider? What has that to do with anything? If you believe you're ignorant because you haven't made it to the top that's your prerogative. Some of us have more faith in our intelligence and understanding of good riding to voice an opinion.

@janets6474

3 жыл бұрын

@@sarahwagland1559 Well said.

@Rabbi1966

Жыл бұрын

Are you blind you have literalky proof that he isnt nice and still you say he his?

Wow!! What is so disturbing is not a single person interfered on behalf of the horse. This is one of the worst rollkur rides I have seen yet. Yanking & cranking on that horse then spur and use a whip. Sheer torture!! Its totally disgusting. He just won't lay off this horses mouth. I don't know why these horses don't buck these people off! Now he posts the trot and is pushing his back around. What is wrong with the FEI that they allow this to continue? It's not like he isn't an unknown in the sport. Obviously he's been scored high enough to be famous. Really begs the questions who ever approved these individuals, who presume to know and understand what true dressage is. Here is an email I sent to the FEI organization this week. Everyone needs to call them out for dereliction on the welfare of horses and preservation of true dressage. "After making numerous comments on You Tube videos of horses in the upper levels, I felt compelled to write your organization. If you see something, say something! There has been an increase of issues with horses during a test, prior to a test and/or in the warm up. Riders and trainers who use the rollkur method are using a method which is abusive to horses. We have judges rewarding this behavior by giving these riders favorable scores when even the simplest " horse layman " can see the artificial nature of the horses back neck, throughness, cadence and impulsion. These horses are not relaxed. There was one individual who was schooling at a show and the horses tongue was blue. We have Anky on videos teaching rollkur and " what a wonderful training method it is". We have Isabel werth using this method as well. Her riding is atrocious as she bounces in the saddle, never really having a connected seat. Yet judges are giving her the high marks. It doesn't matter who the rider is. ALL should be judged fairly on the standards which should be exhibiting for a fair testing of horses and riders. The Isabel Werth video I saw was horrible. The changes were jerky. So much so it threw her forward. Her horse was flat, hollow backed, behind the vertical, and other things. She was scored higher than Charlitte DuJardin who rode an almost flawless test. (I have never heard Charlotte say anything openly about the subject). I submit to you she was robbed of a higher ranking in that test. One can only conclude that judges are political or incompetent. It's time you reject this type of training. When a rider and horse are clearly distressed, judges should be excusing riders from the test. Then, follow up with owners, riders and trainers about the infraction - Why they were dismissed. People at this level should be held to a higher standard. Judges should also take some time to walk through the barns and watch warm ups and training sessions. This is how you catch people in the acts of abuse. It's time your organization condone all types of abusive behavior on horses. Furthermore, if there is no procedure currently in place, judges should also be monitored for accuracy in their critique of riders taking tests. It's time to stop it! For good! By the way, I saw McClain Ward at a show in Lake Placid. He was in a small training paddock away from the crowds. As the horse jumped the fence they smacked it on the belly with a rod. Supposedly, this keeps the horse from hitting the jump. This is also abuse. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. (His dad).

@Julia-mi2ij

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly lots of money comes from horses with a flashy front. People see a flashy front and say "That looks so good" and can't look past it.

@sarahwagland1559

3 жыл бұрын

@@Julia-mi2ij Agreed. Sadly reflective of the age we live in. All that glitters is not gold.

@Julia-mi2ij

3 жыл бұрын

@@sarahwagland1559All we can do is try our best to get things back on track. Horses can have big/flashy gaits and still be healthy, but right now we're not taking that into consideration. Horrible to watch.

@cornpop8586

2 жыл бұрын

He rode her worse in the Aachen warm up before she was left in Germany due to "being unrideable" and "having a breakdown"... In the Aachen warm up people, Debbie McDonald/Robert Dover and other owners/coaches, kept trying to block the person filming.

@janets6474

2 жыл бұрын

@stumpy ypmuts Then, they should be reported to FEI officials at the show. Or, ask a nearby spectator or friend to film you trying to film the offender being blocked by other riders. We have to get creative if these people refuse to cooperate. People are sick and tired of watching the abuse, and those who allow it to happen.

He is a bully. Disgusting.