Country: Treats veterans like garbage. Also Country: "Why won't people join the army?!"

@Fadamor

6 күн бұрын

To be fair, this wasn't the country rejecting his citizenship. This is the State of Tennessee.

@ro101anon7

6 күн бұрын

​@Fadamor true. This is a Tennessee thing. However, the bs we vets go through is phenomenal. I have forbidden my sons from joining.

@yaqbulyakkerbat4190

6 күн бұрын

This is going to shock you. But states are part of the country ​@@Fadamor

@christopherscott8272

6 күн бұрын

​@yaqbulyakkerbat4190 I think his point was federal vs state.

@ElGoogKO

6 күн бұрын

This is so small compared to other egregious things done to the soldiers by the country they are serving.

I'll guarantee he'll be a US Citizen when it comes to pay taxes!

@benjurqunov

3 күн бұрын

Non citizens pay US taxes too !

@PioneerRifleCompany

3 күн бұрын

@@benjurqunov How so? What taxes are they paying?

@nigelleyland166

3 күн бұрын

@@benjurqunov Maybe understanding English would be helpful.

@benjurqunov

3 күн бұрын

@@PioneerRifleCompany Mostly Income tax. But there's excise tax, fuel tax, state tax. The list goes on... Anybody in the US, either earning money or buying something is paying taxes.

@PioneerRifleCompany

3 күн бұрын

@@benjurqunov So they are paying taxes with the money that citizens paid because they are then using that money to pay taxes? Please break this situation down and explain exactly where their money comes from and what taxes those folks pay. Be very specific about where their 'earnings' come from and what INCOME tax you are referring to.

Citizenship is not even a requirement to hold a drivers license in most countries, even the US.

@Jbmc65

2 күн бұрын

Agreed 100%, my parents that were Canadians had a home in Florida and the Florida government and I think it’s the same in all states that after you have been in the state (living) for 30 days you must transfer your vehicle and licence over to that state. My mom and dad had Florida DL and Florida Tags

@tray3120

2 күн бұрын

They are doing the real id here in Maine too because the government won’t except out license as legal id because of how easy they are to get so without the real id we can’t fly or enter government buildings

@cparks1000000

2 күн бұрын

Indeed.

@matthewmiller6068

2 күн бұрын

@@tray3120 There's also other funky laws, I was at an event and some mid-30s guys with Washington, DC licenses were trying to get others to buy them alcohol because the ABC store in that state claimed "Washington, DC is not a state, we can only accept state-issued driver licenses for proving you are 21"

@CharlieLarkin75

Күн бұрын

That was the case until REAL ID, although most states have a work-around for legally present foreign nationals.

Anyone who thinks this country hasn't lost the plot is completely out of their mind.

the knee jerk reaction to 9-11-01 was the worst thing that happened to our republic and had escalated the destruction of our civil rights

@Blink_____

6 күн бұрын

*calculated reaction

@ericarachel55

6 күн бұрын

@@Blink_____ good call

@robertaylor9218

6 күн бұрын

There have been worse, but it’s up there.

@normbograham

6 күн бұрын

never let a disaster go to waste.

@P_RO_

6 күн бұрын

And people forget which party was in control at the time... There is damn near nothing in "The Patriot Acts" which even faintly resembles something patriotic and parts of it are clearly unconstitutional. We need to change our government just as Jefferson told us we needed to do.

I'm just confused how they entirely revoked his license. It's one thing to deny a REAL ID, but for them to go out of their way to make life harder for the man is cruel.

@jasonwomack4064

6 күн бұрын

If you attempt to get real ID and fail the credentials they're supposed to void your license. It forces you to eventually get the fancy ID that way. However, most DMVs won't do that, to avoid the inevitable screaming incident.

@AshKast

6 күн бұрын

It's Tennessee.

@jasonwomack4064

6 күн бұрын

@@AshKast real ID rules are federal. They're just doing what they're told. Stupidly.

@P_RO_

6 күн бұрын

Here in SC new licenses AND RENEWALS have to be upgraded to "Real ID" standards now. And the bastards here don't remember that we had to offer the exact same documentation to get a driver's license back in 1974- now they want to see it again? Wasn't once enough? All of our government is seriously effed up.

@AshKast

6 күн бұрын

@@jasonwomack4064 I agree. Citizenship and immigration are federal matters. Having said that, TN should not be making arbitrary rules on determining citizenships.

How many thousands of CITIZENS were children of SERVICEMEN that were born in other countries where the parents were stationed?

He should sue the DMV, they shouldn't have so much power.

@tedmoss

Күн бұрын

They don't, they just think they do.

@silsahchne7236

Күн бұрын

@@tedmoss you're right. Since he knows how to drive, they think they are in control. This world is becoming more stupid and violent as time goes by.

You can bet that if this man moved to another country the IRS would be after him for taxes!

@Tiewaz

6 күн бұрын

From what I've heard, it literally costs money to give up your US citizenship. They make you pay to do it.

@toulousegoose1150

6 күн бұрын

Yep. Like HealingSwordsman says, we are one of only 3 countries in the world that forces citizens living overseas to pay taxes in both the US and the country where you live. During the time period you're doing the citizenship process for another country you're still paying taxes, and then an additional fee to give it up. It's $2,350.

@sweetasflip

6 күн бұрын

We are the only country in the world that taxes its citizens while living and working abroad.

@Tiewaz

6 күн бұрын

@@sweetasflip We are literally the Hotel California...we can check out anytime we like, but we can never leave.

@toulousegoose1150

6 күн бұрын

@@sweetasflip Nope, it's us, Myanmar, and Eritrea. We're in great company. s/

The problem comes from officials being too dull to realize that this is their problem, not the problem of the guy who triggered it.

@arribaficationwineho32

5 күн бұрын

Hiding behind shuffling papers and regulations

@lynnz4874

5 күн бұрын

@@bobwatson8754 wrong. This has been a deliberate effort for years for Republicans to make it harder to vote by reducing locations increasing ridiculous requirements such as in Texas, where a persons ID must match exactly to the voter log and if even the abbreviation to the street address is incorrect they will deny you to vote. There have hundreds of laws being pushed through in the last several years to reduce voter turnout because the more people that vote, the less Republicans win. Go do the research. You will see this is a movement they are purposely doing under the guise of preventing fraudulent voting that does not exist. The very few cases of voter fraud that have been found were almost entirely Republicans anyway.

@azcamperjohn1079

5 күн бұрын

DEI at its best.

@joefarmer4465

5 күн бұрын

Tennessee, ENUF said.

@lynnz4874

5 күн бұрын

@@bobwatson8754 no it’s a deliberate attempt that Republicans have been working on for years to make it harder to vote to make it harder to get IDs to vote and to make it harder to become a citizen to vote because when people vote, they lose! Very deliberate go look at all the new laws they’ve been trying to put in the last five years, including eliminating voting location, places, eliminating places and hours to get your license. Republicans do not care if you get one or not they’d rather not have one because then you won’t vote. They’ve also been working hard and spending a lot of money to convince you that Government is broken just so that you stop voting and they can deregulate themselves some more as they have been doing. This is all on purpose.

If Raphael Cruz can be a US Senator, this man can have a Real ID.

@bobjohnson4512

4 күн бұрын

Does Raphael have a Texas DL?

@roberthboyd6073

4 күн бұрын

This is true and SENATOR Cruz flies on commercial airlines with a REAL ID. Somebody please help this man.

@TinyHouseHomestead

3 күн бұрын

Cruz is a Citizen, but he is not a "natural born Citizen", that is why he cannot become President! 😁👍👍🇺🇸

@amyhull754

3 күн бұрын

Senator Raphael Cruz is also constitutionally qualified to run for president. And when he was born in Canada (where his birth certificate was issued) only ONE of his parents was a U.S. Citizen. And, no matter how little I like his policies, his claim to birthright citizenship is entirely valid, and he has every right to a US Passport, a REAL ID, and to run for president.

@PioneerRifleCompany

3 күн бұрын

Real ID is a freaking joke, do you have any knowledge of what it actually means?

I am an American citizen born abroad at an American Military Hospital. I have 4 birth certificates. One from Germany, one from the American military Hospital, one from the American Embassy in Germany and when we came back to the states my mom registered my birth in the State of Texas. I'm 70 and definitely feel sympathy for this gentleman. 😎😎😎😎

@danepcarver4951

2 күн бұрын

I was born to American citizens when my father was stationed in France with USAF. I have 3 birth documents; French birth certificate, hospital record of live birth, and Consular Report of Birth Aboard. It is unfortunate, however his parents should have file a CRBA many years ago. BTW, I live in a State(Oregon) where even illegal aliens are issued driver's licenses. Voters twice approved a ballot measure to prevent this, but our Legislature over rode the voters wishes.

@Bo-hb3eo

2 күн бұрын

Same here. I was born in Germany in 1958 to military parents. Actually, my brother-in-law was in the army with Elvis, but that’s another story. I wish him luck getting this straightened out. This sucks.

If he's not getting anywhere with Tennessee, his cheapest option might be to get a US passport. He can then use that to prove that he's a US citizen.

@stevec3526

6 күн бұрын

Yes…

@patriciaspears328

6 күн бұрын

US passport and the passport card, then doesn't need real ID. This is also proof of US Citizenship for driver's license.

@jorgerobles628

6 күн бұрын

That is a good idea ONLY if the people from Tennessee believe that having a US Passport is acceptable as a means of Citizenship. I got the same problem in Houston, Texas, and when I was asked by an official ID, I gave the clerk my Newly Renovated Passport, and she did not accepted it. Then she called a Texas Trooper to escort me from the premises, so I called my boss at DHS, explained what was going on through the phone, and next thing I knew was that Mr. Rumsfeld himself was asking all the personal info from this clerk and the trooper, and I had my Driver's license three hours later. You always have people that are a real disgrace working for the Government, specially State Agencies........

@charlesbirr6782

6 күн бұрын

To get a passport you need a drivers license as id

@richardhole8429

6 күн бұрын

YES! That is his best solution

I was in a similar situation, having been born in Germany. My father was a US citizen, and was working in Germany for a US company. I have a "Report of live birth abroad by US parents" issued by the State Dept. This has served as my "birth certificate" my whole life. It's not a new concept.

@jamesleung0

5 күн бұрын

Exactly, this man's parents did not file the paperwork before they brought him into the US as a child. Your parents did and saved you from this problem.

@drago1149

5 күн бұрын

You are 100% correct that is what should have happened. The problem is government institutions ( state, city, school) were more lax back in the day and you could get away without having the proper docs as long as what you had was close enough. Take Driver's licenses at one point in time you could bring the souvenir birth certificate from hospital ( the one has your baby foot prints on it and probably ribbon) to get one. Then you could get a license and get them to to put whatever name you wanted on it. Wasn't supposed to work that but nobody cared to strictly enforce it. The real id law implementation unfortunately got every government agency to start to enforce their own rules that they weren't really following.

@KelikakuCoutin

5 күн бұрын

DEI

@zacharyhenderson2902

5 күн бұрын

​@@drago1149back in the day you could find a death certificate, use that to obtain a birth certificate and Social Security card, and then use those to get an ID

@spvillano

5 күн бұрын

@@jamesleung0 or he simply lost his paperwork over the course of a long life. Guess he should have his life confiscated, huh?

In Michigan my home schooled son was over 18 was unable to get a license because he had no photo ID. He eventually got a passport which took almost a year after sending piles of documents they kept saying no we want another ton of documents. Eventually he said forget it send everything back, then someone felt sorry for him and sent the passport. I'm convinced bureaucrats find it easier to say no than to anything that requires effort.

It would be fun to do a deep dive into the citizenship status of everyone at the TN licence office!!

I liive in Tennessee and this state is run by some of the worst people in the country. Our state legislature is absolutely corrupt.

@advocateforyourself

6 күн бұрын

Amen to that

@mind_of_a_darkhorse

5 күн бұрын

And yet, the people of Tennessee keep voting these clowns into office!

@georgetaylor2819

5 күн бұрын

@@mind_of_a_darkhorse voting in favor of clowns gets us a circus every time -

@TheRealScooterGuy

5 күн бұрын

Fix it.

@Funkykryptonite_

4 күн бұрын

TN resident. TennCare denied my 12yo daughter saying she isn't a TN resident. She's lived and attended school here her entire life.

Tennessee should prove that it’s a state, and not part of a third world dictatorship.

@scanmead

5 күн бұрын

It would only be fair. 🤷‍♀️

@only1muppet

5 күн бұрын

It’s the lack of knowledge that everyone at the DMV seems to have. The requirements are federal law. I think it’s the employees that don’t understand how citizenship works when born out of the country. I think he needs to get an actual copy of his birth certificate, in the news video they only showed a xerox copy.

@jasonbourne1596

5 күн бұрын

@@only1muppet Tennessee real ID requires proof of citizenship.

@shonnsutton5425

5 күн бұрын

@@jasonbourne1596 His birth certificate shows that his parents were U.S. citizens, which makes him a U.S. citizen. His birth certificate is proof. The DMV workers need a refresher course in citizenship laws.

@AlumniQuad

5 күн бұрын

Bring back the State of Franklin!!!

He is a US citizen based on the citizenship of his parents....this is completely moronic and a misunderstanding of the law from low level bureaucrats.

@nevillejohnson1

Күн бұрын

..but but but it's Tennessee though...

@petesjk

Күн бұрын

And the Republicans pushing realid

@adb012

17 сағат бұрын

Not necessarily, It is not clear what documents he presented. It is one thing to be born in a foreign country from US-citizen parents, and another thing to prove it.

@coralieelliott2076

13 сағат бұрын

@@adb012 he has a birth certificate

@adb012

11 сағат бұрын

@@coralieelliott2076 ... A CANADIAN birth certificate. That will not prove that he is American UNLESS he can ALSO show that his PARENTS are American.

One more example of how bad the Patriot Act is. The bureaucrats have to follow the law. Blame the law, not the bureaucrats, who have no leeway.

@bs3375

Күн бұрын

No, I blame the bureaucrats for being too stupid to use common sense and bring this to someone's attention. The law doesn't get fixed if no one brings attention to it. This should never have been allowed to get this far. Not to a 77 year old veteran. Not to anyone.

@Freedom_Half_Off

Күн бұрын

This has been playing out the last 4 years as state after state implement REAL ID . Millions of U.S. citizens that don't have the "right" documents have been hit with this kind of stuff . Women who got married but never went back to their maiden names that matches their birth certificate after a divorce . Homeless people who can't even get their birth certificates because they don't have the additional documents demanded by the REAL ID Act to get a copy of a birth certificate . People who can't get a replacement SS card because Social Security demands a birth certificate and drivers license . This is in no way new .. at all . This story just found a way to go viral by exposing a very common problem under a new headline that misrepresents what is actually going on and why ...

@msalzberg4962

Күн бұрын

@@bs3375 You don't know that they didn't.

@gailhonadle5182

15 минут бұрын

If the people who run the Athens DL office were not told what the 14 A states on citizenship, this would not be an issue. You can probably add legislators in there too. Mr. O'Connor's parents might not have known they needed to change his BC. 77 years ago is a different time frame.

I am never let down by government's ability to find new ways to add injustice to the people they are supposed to serve.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

6 күн бұрын

In all fairness, what did these people expect? Recruiters can say whatever they like to induce people to sign up and whatever lies they tell are rarely sufficient to get you out of the contract.

@guyforlogos

6 күн бұрын

Ramjam, Well said.

@jeffdeupree7232

6 күн бұрын

The cynic in me has concluded the government does NOT serve the people. It exists only to serve themselves, the ruling class that is becoming increasingly hereditary, and the wealthy class, already very hereditary. ‘The People’ are just fauna on the land to be managed and consumed, or mistreated for entertainment.

@throckwoddle

5 күн бұрын

What do you mean? They are always just to the rich and powerful. It's kind of uppity for us commoners to think the government is intended to serve us. :)

The entire state should be embarrassed.

@july8xx

6 күн бұрын

Well it is Tennessee where the family tree looks like railroad tracks.

@Wyonative08

6 күн бұрын

Tennessee, typical. 😢😂😮

@LDSVenus

6 күн бұрын

I lived in TN for 9 years and at that time they allowed non citizens to get a drivers license. Guess they changed that law. I was born overseas to American parents, my dad was a pilot in the US Air Force, my birth certificate was in a foreign language because the off base hospital had better facilities for a life threatening birth situation. Years later, after a divorce, when I went to change my name back to my maiden name in the local social security in NM, they didn’t want me to have my Social Security card, same reason. So my mother, being a very wise woman, had me send off to the federal Department of State for my American Citizen Born Abroad papers and in the mean time she had a 2nd cousin who was a state Senator and she asked him to get involved because he knew I was a citizen, he did and I got the name changed back to my maiden name on my Social Security card. About a month later I got my papers from the State Department saying American citizen born abroad. So I understand his frustration.

@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket

6 күн бұрын

@@july8xx That seems like the pot calling the kettle black, one look at your KZread and it's safe to assume you're a Red Neck yourself. You're thinking of the virginia's and other Appalachia mountains, not the Smoky mountains. Which hasn't been an issue since we invented the auto mobile and interstate highway; blue bloods are exceedingly rare and nobody I know in Kentucky, Tennessee, or Virginia is in a relationship with their kin; but I do know SOME second/third cousin stuff happens sometimes. I find that nasty personally.

@josegaspar813

6 күн бұрын

We're talking about the state that gave us Hawk Tuah girl, the greatest meme of all time.

He was born of BOTH American citizens. GUARANTEEING him to be an American citizen...

@JadenYukifan28

22 сағат бұрын

He was born in Canada to American parents, then they moved back to the U.S. after he was born.

@fredmdbud

21 сағат бұрын

But his birth abroad still has to be registered with the State Department (since he doesn't have a U.S. birth certificate) - provide birth certificates of parents or naturalization certificates (proof of parents' citizenships), marriage license, and proof the parents lived in the US or its territories for the required time. Guaranteed eligibility isn't any good without proof.

@JadenYukifan28

21 сағат бұрын

@@fredmdbud Maybe they did do that, but it wasn't through the Bank

@Bronte866

9 сағат бұрын

Absolutely.

@Bronte866

9 сағат бұрын

No. Registration is meant to be done at a Canadian consulate before the child is brought into the US or as soon after the birth as possible. But, at the time of this man’s birth that was NOT a requirement. I know because I have the exact same situation that I am going to comment upon above. The State Dept becomes involved only if the man (or myself) seeks a passport.

He should have walked in there with a MAGA hat on - bet he would have received his REAL ID and had no issues :)

To me, this sounds more like an "accidentally on purpose" clerical error for TN to disenfranchise him long enough that he cannot vote in November.

@justsayen2024

6 күн бұрын

That's one way to purge the voting roles.

@JonBrase

6 күн бұрын

What would be the point in that? Demographically speaking, he's likely to be a Republican (white male boomer veteran living in the south). Why would they want him off the voting rolls, or want to risk angering his friends who can still vote and are also likely otherwise to vote Republican?

@MH3GL

6 күн бұрын

They call this a "test run."

@DS-lt7fw

6 күн бұрын

Yeah, because this one person's vote is going to tip the ballot in a state that always leans republican. Good one. 🙄😂

@nunyadayumbusiness591

6 күн бұрын

@@DS-lt7fw Yea, not like TN has any history with disenfranchising it's voters... If you live in Nashville or Memphis, you don't deserve representation because you elected a black democrat, and they'll kick your rep out for being a black man calling for gun control. (Can't call bullshit - it already happened)

I am now a US citizen with a real ID. but in 1976, as a UK citizen, I worked for Carnival Cruise Lines out of Miami and spent every Saturday on land in Miami. On a weeks dry dock, I rented a car and visited the FL DMV and took my driving test (been driving in UK for over 10 years) and passed. I was issued a license with a SS# of 00 000 0000. I was not even a resident at the time but was legally let loose in USA on a C1 and D1 visa. I am so sorry that this happened, especially to a vet. No excuse guys. Do better!

What would this state do with the late Senator McCain's Panama birth certificate?

One doesn’t need to be a citizen to get a us drivers license!

This is happening to me as of the video. I was born in Japan to an American father stationed in Tokyo, Japan as a member of the USAF and a Japanese mother and I was born on a American air force base. I'm retired USN and I was denied the renewal of my TN DL because the drivers license center told me they can't accept my birth certificate because I was born out of country and that I need additional documentation from the State Department verifying my birth to a US citizen. It's been 10 weeks since I sent off my paperwork to the Dept of State and have heard nothing and I have contacted my Congresswoman to resolve this problem.

@CitEnthusiast

5 күн бұрын

It took me 3 months to get my certificate from State after my original carbon copy document was stolen. Stick with it, they will get it to you. It helps if you know the original form serial number, I had very luckily taken a photo of mine so had that info.

@cplmpcocptcl6306

5 күн бұрын

Sounds like Tennessee has a lunatic in charge of the DMV. Sorry, you have to deal with such an idiotic situation.

@pilsplease7561

5 күн бұрын

Shits likely to happen to my dad, he was born in Germany to a US and a German Citizen. So I bet they are going to F him over with Real ID.

@jamesleung0

5 күн бұрын

Did you ever have a "Report of Birth Abroad" certificate?

@nsahandler

5 күн бұрын

​@@jamesleung0 Doesn't matter.

Had a relative go through this in Missouri. When he went to renew his CDL, it was denied because he was born at an overseas US military base (both parents US citizens). Ignorance is rampant, and some of those ignoramuses get jobs in state bureaucracies.

@MonkeyJedi99

5 күн бұрын

Heck, there are people working in state lobs who STILL think being from New Mexico means you're not American.

@TheTkiller9999

5 күн бұрын

Get a US passport, they are used to seeing foreign birth certificates and can check easier on the validity.

@JDLupus

5 күн бұрын

They're also immune from any negative repercussions for their incompetency, I believe, so there's no incentive for them to even care about doing things right.

@Delimon007

5 күн бұрын

Oh my god that's hilarious 😂 Do these people not know that being born on a military base counts as US soil? Do they not know that was written into our constitution? They should read it sometime.

@aidankelley2696

5 күн бұрын

@@Delimon007 they could have even been born in saudi arabia of all places and still been considered a US citizen, we literally have laws for this, if your parents are both us citizens and you were a child at the time your automatically considered a US citizen, regardless of which country you were born, because otherwise you'd be without a country of residence

The greatest threat anyone will ever experience will come from their own government. Truer words have never been spoken.

Once bureaucracy takes over it always kills a nation's spirit and dynamism.

@fjmarcliff1390

3 күн бұрын

It's not bureaucracy that kills a nation. Its the ignorant bureaucrats that do.

This is crazy. A drivers license is permission to drive, not proof of citizenship. If you can prove residency, you can get a DL. Someone owes this man an in-person apology.

@scriptles

6 күн бұрын

Have to check if they even offer standard licenses anymore. I remember being told in my state after a certain date they would ONLY issue real id licenses. Don't know if it's true or not but I do have a real id now. A friend I knew worked there and when I was getting it renewed asked if I wanted to get a real id or wait so I had all the documents with me anyways and updated it. Not sure if this is the case for TN or not.

@douglasphillips1203

5 күн бұрын

REAL ID basically combines both in one card.

@SmallSpoonBrigade

5 күн бұрын

@@scriptles It depends on the state as the Feds don't have the constitutional authority to dictate who can and can't have a driver's license.

@scriptles

4 күн бұрын

@@SmallSpoonBrigade That's only a sorta thing. On the federal level we have agreements with other countries that allow them to drive on our roads. But thats a complicated thing.

I'm a Canadian permanent resident and I am allowed to have a US driver's license.

@repro7780

5 күн бұрын

Me too! I have an SSN as well.

@shonnsutton5425

5 күн бұрын

@@shallowgal462 They took away his regular driver's license. They say that because they don't believe he is a citizen, he can't have a driver's license period.

@nathanlamberth7631

5 күн бұрын

It’s because you filed your paperwork instead of just complaining to the media.

@alienkittens

5 күн бұрын

You can get a drivers license in Pennsylvania with just a work permit. Not a permanent resident (green card) although you can get one with a green card too.

@shawandrew

5 күн бұрын

@@shallowgal462 i don't know what you mean by "enhanced", but it is a real id driver's license. It can be used for ID on domestic flights within the US.

Is there any lawsuit that can be filed against the state if they violate his right to vote as a US citizen ?

With all the crap going on with the border. I can't believe that this could happen. Makes me sick

I had the IRS declare me decieced one year, when I was doing my taxes. They said I changed my birthday. I asked them how? They told me I had to be the one who changed it, or i was wrong about my birthday. I asked them how it could have changed? They said I had to have come in and physically told them to do it. I asked them if they had any records of me doing that, they said no. So someone at the IRS changed my birthdate, and they wouldn't admit it. Morons.

@rl453

4 күн бұрын

Omg I went through something similar!

@temitopeej8407

4 күн бұрын

OMG How frustrating!

@analogkid4557

Күн бұрын

I guess tjey don't get tax money from you anymore.

This was a common occurrence when I was a recruiter for the US Army. If it hasn't already been suggested he could request a certificate of birth abroad from the US Secretary of States office. He would provide his Canadian birth certificate and his social security card. It has been a while but I believe an EPSQ (electronic personal security questionnaire) would need to be filled out. I hope this reaches him and that it's not a dead end. Good luck. No veteran deserves to be treated like this.

He is an AMERICAN 💯

He should sue the crap out of every Tennessee official involved.

Yesh Canadian here. Had a Washington state license while I attended school. In fact if you stay in the USA over 6 months. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GET ONE

@dadsapp

5 күн бұрын

It just requires a Grand Jury of tour peers to make it so.

@steveh7508

5 күн бұрын

Just like most countries

@adaroben1104

5 күн бұрын

TN isn't the US, clearly it's a third world nation

@glennshrom5801

5 күн бұрын

@@steveh7508 It depends on the state, not a US law.

@jgrenwod

5 күн бұрын

@@BCNeil yes, but you were in the US legally and could prove it. He can’t.

To me this sounds completely normal for the government. My grandfather died in Feb. Served 41 yrs airforce/post office. We have mailed death certificates to a dozen gov. entities trying to get survivor benifits for my grandmother. Today I'm dropping another in the mail because they still need proof of death. He passed in the V.A. We burried him in a military cemetery. His gov. benifits (insurance, retirement, etc.) have all stopped. It's been 5+ months now....

@tomcede6428

6 күн бұрын

Did your grandfatther select survivor benifits when he retired? Selecting survivor benefits reduces the amount of the benefit but is passed to the survivor. If he didn't select survivor benefits the only thing your grandmother is entitled to is social security and medicare.

@glenmel78

5 күн бұрын

@@tomcede6428 Everything, and I mean everything, was in place well before he passed. We were aware of what needed to be done. Not our first time being here. The V.A. helped get the process started like they normally do but here we are months later and some other office wants a death certificate. We started with 12 copies and blew through those. Requested another dozen and 4 of those are gone. The federal gov. has known this man since age 16. The gov. knows he's passed because they are the ones sending us the death certificates....it's stupid and that's why the gov. does it. They know no other way. I know from experience.

@MeRia035

5 күн бұрын

Seems there is no low government can't stoop to. Reprehensible. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather, my condolences ♥️🕊♥️

Perhaps he spoke with a Canadian accent and was eating a box of poutine, and admitted he likes hockey. Sounds suspicious to me.

A social security not being proof of citizenship is literally laughable

Wife is Canadian citizen but lived here for decades and has had her drivers license for as long. Now she's also a US citizen. TN really is a terrible state.

@doghair5403

3 күн бұрын

TN is a great State, but like all States it has some bureaucratic BS.

@samstewart9249

3 күн бұрын

Not really, just what you get when you elect a Republican super majority.... craziness!

@montyjackson8156

2 күн бұрын

@@doghair5403 Not so TN is a racist state.

The real question is--- Is Tennessee a part of the U.S.???

@gali01992

5 күн бұрын

When I was stationed in New Mexico, many times I had to argue that it was part of the United States.

@montyjackson8156

2 күн бұрын

They still think they are apart of the Confederacy.

@jaimebarillas4253

2 күн бұрын

😳😳😳​@@gali01992

@uselesscause3178

Күн бұрын

@@gali01992 haha! I hear that is a thing. Maybe some dumb arse politician will accidently build a wall around New Mexico.

Yet they let actual illegal immigrants a drivers license. Tennessee has become a joke.

Wait, so Ted Cruz isn't a citizen either? Somebody tell Texas about this!

John McCain was born in Panama and ran for president. This is a common situation.

@donnashappyplace

5 күн бұрын

McCain was born on a US military base, which is US soil. Any American parents were required to file a form with the US government requesting citizenship for a child born outside the US within a year of their birth. Otherwise, the US government wouldn't know they existed, much like never filing a US birth certificate application. Do you think you could have a child at home, never file an application for a birth certificate, yet the US government would somehow know the child is American? This guy has been an undocumented immigrant and subject to deportation since he arrived here as a child.

5 күн бұрын

You speak so authoritatively but there is no requirement to do this within a year of the child’s birth. I know this because I have read the CRBA rules, since I filed and received a CRBA for my son, and the people in line in front of me were doing the process for their daughter who was several years old.

@nsahandler

5 күн бұрын

​@@donnashappyplacehe had a SSN so that happened dingus

Having to deal with a stupid official employee is a nightmare.

@Vincent_Beers

6 күн бұрын

There's other kinds?

@spvillano

5 күн бұрын

@@Vincent_Beers yeah, the two competent officials that exist in most agencies.

@cindyphan9856

5 күн бұрын

Especially when that's all they hire !

They won't care until the situation costs the bureaucracy money.

A lot of state employees don’t know federal law!!!!!

Citizenship is a federal issue not a state issue…

@TuntematonX

6 күн бұрын

It's actually an international human rights issue as well - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 15, Sections 1 and 2.

@mathewfullerton8577

6 күн бұрын

The issuance of drivers licenses is a state issue, not a federal issue.

@ericojonx

6 күн бұрын

​@@mathewfullerton8577 Citizenship is Federal, not state.

@metropod

6 күн бұрын

technically speaking, the states have their own citizenship. Every US citizen is also a citizen of the state in which they reside.

@youtubecommenter4213

6 күн бұрын

@@ericojonx they didn't revoke his citizenship, tennessee just claims he's not one and refuses to issue a license to him.

A friend of mine was born in England while his father was serving in the navy. He was able to get a US passport using this document. If the US government considers him a citizen, why can’t the state of Tennessee do the same for this person?

@CrankyBeach

6 күн бұрын

Same thing applied to John McCain, who was born in Panama while his father was serving there in the US military. There was some back-and-forth about whether this made him ineligible to be elected president, but the question was settled in his favor. One would think that would set a precedent, but apparently those Tennessee bureaucrats knew better....

@megalodon1726

6 күн бұрын

This guy's parents apparently never applied for his US passport, so now he has the nearly impossible task of proving at least one of them was a US citizen when he was born 77 years ago. That proof is much easier when the US citizen parent is still alive and the foreign-born child is still young.

@bfin

6 күн бұрын

@@CrankyBeach I went through something similar when applying for my Merchant Mariners Document the first time...I was born in NAS Yokosuka Japan while my dad served on the USS Midway in mid 70"s, Mom was from Mississippi dad from NOLA. My birth certificate being issued by US State Department caused an issue at the CG station in Slidell LA. The first GC member kept trying to tell me my birth cert was no good because it wasn't a state issued BC, It took me asking for his boss for it to get approved, Station commander was asked for and him to explain why my BC was good which was because I was a US citizen born abroad and that is why I had a US State Dept. birth cert and why it was better than just a state issued one.

@jerryinmon2731

5 күн бұрын

@@megalodon1726 The law at the time of his birth granted him automatic citizenship so there was nothing for his parents to do.

@megalodon1726

5 күн бұрын

@@jerryinmon2731 automatic citizenship isn't very useful without the documentation to prove it. Being born in the US also gives you automatic citizenship, but without a US birth certificate or equivalent you may be unable to claim the rights and benefits of citizenship. His parents should have secured a US passport or citizenship certificate for him while he was a kid.

Clearly we need more government. They are so efficient, thoughtful, and kind. They protect us from common sense. They protect themselves from unemployment. What a deal!

@62Cristoforo

4 күн бұрын

people from the government are there to help you

@captainjimolchs

3 күн бұрын

I am grateful that I am not receiving all the government that I am paying for. --Will Rogers.

@intercat4907

3 күн бұрын

My state doesn't do this sh*t. Get back in your lane and blame the ones that actually do stuff wrong.

@bonochromatic6841

3 күн бұрын

What if I told you that there are multiple governments and some are better than others? Your tone seems to imply that you consider any government to be a mistake, which makes you an extremist.

@rcwagon

2 күн бұрын

@@bonochromatic6841 Some governments are better and some are worse. None are good. George Washington quote: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master." With that in mind government isn't to be trusted, but watched carefully. Also know that moderation isn't bad, just don't take it to an extreme. It is worth thinking about. You may disagree.

The US State Department has those birth records. My son was born in Germany and his birth records were validated by the US State Department.

@darksaint0124

4 күн бұрын

Every US agency has access to files that can identify you. They have no interest in making the system more efficient. They make the system confusing on purpose. Sometimes I start to think that the reason some of the people that work at these agencies are hired is to come up with new ways to make roadblocks in the system.

It infuriates me that this US citizen is being denied his rights as a US citizen.

@michaelharrison1041

4 күн бұрын

Get used to it. How many American citizens born in Canada will be unable to vote this fall in Tenn.?

@macbook802

4 күн бұрын

Imagine how many illegal immigrants are driving commercial vehicles

@beetlebailey

4 күн бұрын

@@macbook802 just go to any local truckstop you’ll see them

@sirslickrock

4 күн бұрын

@@macbook802that’s not even on topic here.

@Malidala

4 күн бұрын

Having a two tiered system like that is absurd on it's face. Why should someone even have to be a citizen in the first place to get a driver's license?

Get a passport and sue them for all of the harassment.

I have had something kinda close . The woman at the DMJ claimed she knew me as a neighbor of hers and that I had just renewed about a month earlyer . I havehad 7 lawyers try getting this straightened out , my parents had signed statements , showed several old liscences, old birth certificate with foot prints and newer ones which were confiscated. I have found this is not so uncommon and is a nightmare

So basically one ignorant desk clerk at the DMV ignorantly issued an ILLEGAL action, and they doubled down to avoid admitting the totally fucked up. Yeah, any first year law student could have a field day with this.

Never underestimate the ability of the government to screw things up.

@MrTrailerman2

5 күн бұрын

They've had decades of practice so they should be good at it.😂

@spvillano

5 күн бұрын

@@MrTrailerman2 well, it's the Peter Principle. Fuck up, move up.

@cindyphan9856

5 күн бұрын

On purpose ...to kill time ...for that lovely. PAYCHECK !

There’s also a current case in FL where a marine was recruited and promised citizenship. Got a license, worked here for decades…. Now they have cancelled his license.

@toulousegoose1150

6 күн бұрын

Met a bunch of people like that in the military, including our chaplain. He was a very sweet older gentleman. He was recruited with the promise of citizenship (he's from South Korea and was an interpreter for the US Army there for years). They tried to pull his green card in the middle of our deployment.

@jpboy1962

6 күн бұрын

This case is apples and oranges form the one in TN. This gentleman was not born to a US parent(s). He did not meet the requires for automatic citizenship sadly.

The sad story is that if he flew to Mexico, snuck back across the border to the US, they would welcome him with open arms, and GIVE him a complementary driver’s license. We are circling the drain folks.

Should TED Cruz be expelled from the US Senate, I am sure his birth certificate is Canadian?

A Canadian citizen can still get a US driver's license.

@josephpadula2283

6 күн бұрын

A Canadian student studying in the US was arrested for not having a US license as she was not just visiting and had Been here longer than the time allowed when living in the state .

@Wolfie713

6 күн бұрын

He wants a RealID, which may be part of the problem. Either that, or they may be required now, meaning that he can't get one unless he shows where his citizenship is from.

@B_Bodziak

6 күн бұрын

He also lost his social security

@geoffreyganoe5246

6 күн бұрын

@@B_Bodziak different story out of Florida

@user-neo71665

6 күн бұрын

He's not a canadian citizen. His parents were both US citizens so he is one. From my understanding he was born on a US military base anyways. This is all red tape government BS steming from 9/11.

My 83 year old father wasn't able to get a real ID in Missouri because even though his utility bills last the physical address, they don't list the zip. The mailing address on them is a PO with the correct zip, but they won't accept it. He's blind now so we ended up just getting a state ID and a passport. I sent the EXACT same docs the dmv rejected in for the passport application and they were accepted. These state bureaucrats are just stupid.

@kellyalvarado6533

5 күн бұрын

😂😅 There's a reason we're called Manurei and it's not because of the cows.

@cougarhunter33

5 күн бұрын

Use different form of address proof. Bank statement, vehicle registration, etc

@darkhelmet4279

5 күн бұрын

Stupid? Or corrupt?!!

@truthministries77

5 күн бұрын

Or we can stop complying with nonsense.. ​@@cougarhunter33

@GarrettMoffitt

5 күн бұрын

Because anyone can get a PO box.

Consular Report is Birth Abroad (CRBA). I assume his parents were either unaware they needed one or it’s been lost.

It’s happened to several people - and folks are basically to sue for their citizenship. And at least a dozen veterans have been deported since 2018 !!

This could be a result of: 1: A lack of foresight, 2: Incompetence, or 3: Malice by design. Let’s be real here.

@wdwerker

6 күн бұрын

Probably a bit of all 3 !

@davezul4396

5 күн бұрын

Civil service. The last bastion of incompetency.

@absurdengineering

5 күн бұрын

@@davezul4396It varies wildly. My friends are retired civil servants and are sharp as needles. They knew their job, know their world history, and aren’t mouth breathers. But that’s not the norm in the US unfortunately.

@justliberty4072

5 күн бұрын

People blindly believing computer systems and not wanting to do any work to sanity-check things.

I've been a temporary resident in the US for 16 years and have a US drivers license.

@resterAnonyme

6 күн бұрын

Temporary for 16 years? That sounds permanent. My wife is a Permanent Resident and has a real ID.

@additudeobx

6 күн бұрын

@@resterAnonyme PR is a territory of the US.... go figure...

@resterAnonyme

6 күн бұрын

@@additudeobx Permanent Resident

@TheOrangeRoad

6 күн бұрын

Go back

@christopherwilson2785

6 күн бұрын

​@@resterAnonyme Your PR wife is a US citizen lol. Wow

Uh Oh. The next thing you know, they will come after his Social Security benefits. Our government sucks! I really hope he gets this straightened out.

As someone born to US parents outside of the country, this is not surprising. The state of Kansas did not want to acknowledge my paperwork from the state department. I lived in KS for 4 years and could never get a license there. Moved to where I am now and had no issues with the DMV here.

Incompetence of this level from government workers needs to be made criminal.

@DonGlassjr

5 күн бұрын

The lack of common sense, to fix the problem.

@tankergear9857

5 күн бұрын

Theyre just following the rules. Blame the shitty laws

@boggy7665

5 күн бұрын

This may be about disenfranchising blacks, many of whom were born rural poor in their parents' homes & never got a birth certificate.

@freethebirds3578

5 күн бұрын

Bottom-rung employees have no authority to override stupid laws.

@TheRealScooterGuy

5 күн бұрын

@@freethebirds3578 -- True, but they can double-check the law to see if there are exceptions or a process for him to follow, instead of refusing AND revoking his current license.

Why doesn't the governor step up and fix this.

@2cartalkers

6 күн бұрын

Governors want $crill in unmarked Ben Franklins to do this type of work.

@Agapy8888

6 күн бұрын

@@2cartalkers Yes

@emeryjl

6 күн бұрын

Because this is a federal issue and not a state issue. For a RealID, you cannot use a birth certificate from another country. However, he can get a valid document (Certificate of Citizenship) by applying for one from USCIS.

@billrehm3590

6 күн бұрын

@@emeryjl the governor can step in and get stuff done.

@DS-lt7fw

6 күн бұрын

​@@billrehm3590 the governor cannot void federal laws. Congress needs to fix the law.

Don't expect anything akin to justice from any Tennessee "public servant" (elected or not elected).

Apply for a US Passport.

My son had a problem with Virginia. He was born in Hieldelburg Germany. He had a Department of State Birth certificate and all his documents from the USArmy. It took the US Virginia Senator, and Virginia Governor to fix the issue.

You don't need to be a US citizen to have a drivers license. You just have to be a legal resident.

@toulousegoose1150

6 күн бұрын

Real ID is a little different. It's supposed to be the equivalent of a passport as far as background checks. They're forcing people to get it, too.

@flyer7694

6 күн бұрын

Not even a legal resident. As long as you are in US legally for an extended time, you can get a DL. I have had au pairs from other countries for 5 years now. they are technically here on student visas, and only for 1 or 2 years. But they all get their DLs and they are required to get sn SSN. They get paid and must have their earnings tracked. They are also required to be able to drive before being selected for the program and getting their visa in the first place.

@bikeman7982

6 күн бұрын

You need to be “lawfully present” in most states to get a DL. States like CA issues DLs to undocumented persons as well.

@jmayuk

6 күн бұрын

@@flyer7694 but in those cases they were legally residing in the state in question albeit for a determined period. The main point is that there is no citizenship requirement simply to have a drivers license.

@lrmackmcbride7498

6 күн бұрын

​@@toulousegoose1150 real id does not require citizenship.

My children only have a foreign birth certificate. The US Consulate did not give us an American birth certificate. Instead, the consular officer said the foreign birth certificate is the birth certificate. They did have to get a passport after birth. Then when they came of age, they applied for the driver's license. Don't get an enhanced driver's license. Get a US passport instead. The government people in Tennessee are wrong. They should be fired. The commissioner is wrong.

I'm in the UK. Here we have a phrase for beurocrats that have to stick to the letter of the law. We call them "Jobsworths" as in "It's more than my jobs worth". Give the bloke a licence.

The federal law has all the provisions you mentioned. All the state had to do was follow those provisions.

@blackosprey2219

6 күн бұрын

If I remember right, it's not the state's role to determine national citizenship in the first place.

@Dantevonlocke

5 күн бұрын

Well Tennessee following federal laws is an ongoing issue.

@nsudatta-roy8154

5 күн бұрын

@@blackosprey2219 Absolutely! It's crazy how each state has taken the law and follow whatever they want. The way the instructions for the states are written, everyone with a SSN, now a primary credential for ID and work purposes, can get a driver's license, but those licenses will generally have some federal restrictions posted on the license if the applicant hasn't qualified for a real ID.

@TeflonBilly426

Күн бұрын

Not the state, the guy applying for a license is the one that should be following the provisions, yet can only seem to whine to press rather than requesting the proper documents from the Canadian Consulate.

Kind of reminds me of TSA agents who won't accept District of Columbia drivers licenses as id to board a flight, because DC is not one of the 50 states or liquor store and/or restaurant owners who won't accept said id for purchasing alcohol for the same reason.

@SayAhh

6 күн бұрын

Then there are the ppl who don't know that Puerto Ricans are US citizens from the moment they are born

@glassman1533

6 күн бұрын

​@SayAhh Or Guam or USVI etc...

@memyself1772

6 күн бұрын

​@@SayAhhand the poor New Mexicans

@AutonomousNavigator

6 күн бұрын

The district is not intended to be a permanent residence. The whole purpose of the district is to serve the states. Permanent residence in the district is self-serving to the federal government.

@glassman1533

6 күн бұрын

@AutonomousNavigator More than half a million people live in DC. The fact that residences have Bern built in DC since the 1790s kind if blows a hole in that argument. People who don't live in DC don't realize that only a small fraction of the area of DC encompasses government buildings. The rest is made up of neighborhoods, just like any other city in America.

If Obama can be "elected" president then this man can be a citizen and have his driver's license back

This is a perfect example of government being stupid.

77 years old. I wonder if he is receiving social security benefits and a retirement from a US employer?

Ben is barely visible behind the upper left corner of the NOSTALGIC tag

@Bobs-Wrigles5555

6 күн бұрын

Took me forever to find him too. Well Done Hope you had a good 4th.

@terrancecoard388

6 күн бұрын

Thanks...I did not find it. Bob had a hard time so I will forgive myself.

@struanpeat5116

6 күн бұрын

i had to go digging in the comments, i did not see it

What's it matter if they say he is not a citizen? They give them to non citizens.

@MartinvonTours11.11

Сағат бұрын

Exactly!!!!

He’s more American than Ted Cruz, Ted Cruz didn’t even serve.

One of the most American stories I've head all week.

If I was him I would SUE the state of Tennessee.

@DS-lt7fw

6 күн бұрын

I'm not sure if a lawsuit could fix the problem. It sounds like they screwed up with how they phrased the law so the law needs to be updated. Edit: the real ID law specifies what is acceptable proof of citizenship. I'm saying they need to correct that list (assuming the list is actually wrong). They also need to add some provision for if someone doesn't have the correct documentation and give them a few days to come back instead of canceling their license immediately. But some of the comments below make it sound like this guy may actually not be a US citizen because his parents didn't file the proper paperwork.

@madmaximilian5783

6 күн бұрын

​@@DS-lt7fwwell it is Tennessee where a slow day lasts a week for them...😆😄

@billbammerlin4666

6 күн бұрын

It the Federal Government not State.

@cliffordmaynard6559

6 күн бұрын

@@billbammerlin4666 Tennessee State government

@JamesThomas-kx5sj

6 күн бұрын

​@@cliffordmaynard6559Tennessee is doing what the federal government told them to do

I lived in the US for 4 years, and obtained a driver's licence; but was never a citizen

Time for him to ask for all of his TAXES back from the state and see how fast he will be a US Citizen.

I'm not surprised this is TN.

This is ridiculous. A guy can risk his life fighting for his country but gets a kick in the butt for wanting a driving licence.

@poet7158

6 күн бұрын

I served too however That does not give him or me the right to break our laws

@theecstatic9686

6 күн бұрын

You served as a bootlikker. I can tell by your opinion. Whether or not a man serves in the military or not he has a right to the roadway.

@davidowen9671

6 күн бұрын

I too am a US veteran, Army. Let's lose the absurdity that all these people risked their lives for their country and are heroes. For one thing it is grotesquely unfair to those soldiers who actually did something heroic.

@kfox420

6 күн бұрын

​​@@poet7158Ummmmm... What law did this guy in this situation break?

@SmallSpoonBrigade

6 күн бұрын

It could be worse. I saw a story a while back about a marine vet that lost his citizenship in Australia when he enlisted in the USMC, and is now stateless because the government decided that to get citizenship via military service that there has to be hostilities going on. And the fact that the first Iraq war had ended before he was fully trained meant that he didn't qualify.

Didn't a bunch of veterans already sort out the bureaucracy in Athens, TN about eighty years ago? Seems the locals have forgotten already. Hopefully they figure it out before he decides to sort it out in proper Athens style.

Brett Hull was born in Ontario, yet played his entire international carrier for the US. This young man obviously doesn't make enough money to be important. And people wonder why we (US citizens) no longer trust our own government.

If his Birth Certificate says his parents were US Citizens, no matter where he was born, he is US Citizens.

@tookitogo

5 күн бұрын

Therein lies the rub: that is not 100% true. There are physical presence requirements for the US citizen parent. The exact rules depend on which parent(s) is a US citizen, and whether the parents are married or not. For example, for a US citizen mother unmarried to the noncitizen father, for the child to get US citizenship, they require bulletproof proof that the US citizen mother was physically present in the US for a certain amount of time (one uninterrupted year) before the child is born. If the parents are married, but only one is a US citizen, then the US citizen parent had to have lived in USA for 5 years before the birth abroad, of which at least 2 years were above age 14. If there is any chance that the US citizen parent could have left the US for even a day during a year, that year is disqualified. If the US citizen parent had a passport as a kid, pretty much the only way to prove the US citizen parent _didn’t_ leave is to have been incarcerated or institutionalized. They want you to prove a negative, which is often impossible. My nephew is eligible to claim US citizenship under the rules, but because we cannot _prove_ to the satisfaction of the Dept. of State that my sister spent one _uninterrupted_ year in USA before he was born (even though she had many), they won’t grant it. The mere fact that it was _possible_ for her to theoretically leave the country for just one minute is enough for them to deny him citizenship.

@rlh766

5 күн бұрын

Only if one of your parents was serving overseas in an official capacity otherwise they have to file for dual citizenship for you when you’re born.

@Joemaama-vw9dz

4 күн бұрын

He's Canadian.

@1realtruthrightnow742

4 күн бұрын

not true

@petercrocker2421

4 күн бұрын

That birth certificate is Canadian. USA don’t care that some Canadian piece of paper says your American. His parents should have registered his birth abroad. That becomes his proof of citizenship. Hopefully he can do that.

What does Real ID have to do with him getting his license canceled. The reps response made no sense.

@robertkohler4173

6 күн бұрын

Many if not most states have decided to only issue Drivers License with the Real ID identifier.. ie. you must be able to qualify for both or you get none.

@krone5

5 күн бұрын

He is in the wrong state, NY would have probably given him a licence of some kind.

Bless this man Lord. ❤

I was born in 1957, I served in the Marines from 76-97 and now I'm abjectly disgusted with the country I once loved. Our government hates us and having destroyed our money, our infrastructure, our manufacturing base they are busy destroying everything left, which just ain't much. I once had something like four driver's licenses from different states because being moved around. I was forced eventually to get rid of all but one when I retired. There has never been any real coherence in the bureaucracy that has consumed our lives. John McClain, GySgt, USMC ret.