After 12 years of trying to make early protoss units viable, the answer finally came... Make more of them

@Alloran

Жыл бұрын

A great man once said: More shit counters less shit

@jkkim6928

Жыл бұрын

NUMBERS DONT LIE AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR YOU

@kindlin

Жыл бұрын

@@Alloran I couldn't find that great man's name. Could you please elaborate? ty!

@agran4137

Жыл бұрын

@@kindlin his name will be alloran

@kindlin

Жыл бұрын

@@agran4137 Alloran Simtur Corass?

Notice how the zealots always target the queens during the runby, even at the exspence of damage on the hatchery. Forcing the zerg to run out of larva is absolutly a key focus in this new playstyle.

@espernova228

Жыл бұрын

Because any unit targets resistance first

@aquaden8344

Жыл бұрын

@@nguyenphuvinh7064 That‘s the basic zerg weakness in general. Very weak anti air for a long time and rather cumbersome sluggish slow unit creation. Zerg has a hard time to push through the protos wall in early game, and later on it takes a ton of larva to keep up with protos. Therefore the mass gateway style as seen in the video is challenging to counter, the protos has a timing advantage.

for all the protoss player's out there he is the Her0 we needed, especially after so many Protoss' parted ways with us without so much as a thank you...

@YcoHit

Жыл бұрын

Have u seen Reynor's protoss xD

@_fisheater1027

Жыл бұрын

Zest still dodging his military service tho, lol

@juanversion3922

Жыл бұрын

Our new hope

@ryu-ken

Жыл бұрын

Protoss is the weakest that's why

@phsycresconquest6636

Жыл бұрын

@@ryu-ken yes and no. They lack good spell-casters which is why Zerg is the strongest. Terran has Two in the Raven and Ghost. Zerg has Queen, Viper, Infestor. It is what it is. It also means that Protoss units have to be stronger to compete with the Zerg Skill ceiling.

23:44 He was so persistent with his Zealot Run-bys that soO actually ran out of Queens and that definitely caused the larva issues as well lmao

This style is way more exciting to watch than the old turtle Protoss.

So after 12 years the pros finally played the campaign, saw the toss cinematic and now we're here.

@vectrom21

Жыл бұрын

They finally remebered how bw was played

@michaelfishman6082

Жыл бұрын

@@vectrom21 Forge expand into 1+ speedlots

The craziest thing about herO is how he always changes up even this build and has a ton of variations. Most Protoss players sort of map out their scouting, and optimize their builds and responses, attacking at certain timings etc. Meanwhile herO goes like "Ok you're making Zerglings to counter my stalkers. No Im not gonna tech to archons. Im just going to make 8 oracles and that's gonna beat your Zerglings." Although the idea is the same (oracles into mass gateway) he keeps doing it in so many different flavors and it makes it hard for his opponents to prepare against this specifically.

@joshuakim5240

Жыл бұрын

In hindsight, this is kind of like Terran Bio, Protoss Edition where mobility, rapid-response, and aggression are prioritized with mass early/midgame units. Really cool to see a Toss player finally making use of the race's speed capabilities for more than one attempted earlygame cheese.

@Whalery

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuakim5240 The reason this build can shine is that there is no punishment in the very early game against it. Back then, Zerg could do the queen walk to kill or disrupt so many builds Protoss had. 2-sg void rays build was created to defend it since unupgraded ground units are trash against queens with transfuse. With the queen walk gone, the mass gateway has no natural way to disrupt early on. It's hard to nydus as oracles keep scouting your bases, and there are so many early game units from Protoss than usual. Queen walk at lair tech is too slow. The response is to simply fight head-on and trade better. This build from herO keeps both sides honest, but the Protoss can gain an upper hand as long as they keep getting more bases than Zerg.

@whynow4306

Жыл бұрын

He is basically dictating the game to zerg, so he is in control of what units are being produced by his opponent. And he is the one to do tech switches if he wants to. Zerg cant afford it cause if he does smth weird, the sheer amount of toss will punish him instantly.

The moment you realize this is a zerg stratagem that protoss players took and ran with makes this all the more awesome to watch. Funnier thing is when you realize Reynor plays a similar build when he's playing his off race I am throughly entertained

if this is what protoss is going to look like going forward for awhile, I'm totally okay with this, its wild and chaotic and fun

That last game was so brutal. the adepts stretching the zerg out from behind was an amazing play.

I think the main point of this strategy is avoid zerg to have larva, if zerg needs to use his queens to defend the attack, there is no larva... maybe some double hatch in the main will start happening again, to try to avoid a little bit that. Also will increase your production of qeens ;)

the protoss swarm damn

I really liked Her0's and Reynors way of playing Protoss this such a nice refreshment of being somewhat new strat

Hero really living up to his name

the zealot charge leading into the instant GG had me dying with laughter at the end. For Auir!!!! hahahaha

Hero is my new favorite Protoss player. That match was so stimulating and fun to watch (I love watching zergs be destroyed).

That Adept run-by at the end was hella smart on top of many other next-level moves.

The way to counter Zerg is to emulate their style and beat them at their own game with better units (Gateway>Pool).

herO has won 22 PvZ series in a row since May 1, and that includes 16 2-0’s or 3-0s. map score vs top players: 7-0 vs rogue 8-0 vs soO 6-2 vs Dark 5-1 vs DRG 11-5 vs solar

I'm really glad Hero is still in the competitive scene. Was my favorite player back in WoL.

That was AWESOME. I'm digging the "new" Protoss style, between this and Reynor's Protoss.

To all the Zerg out there, in the words of Tychus Findlay: "hell... it's about damn time" :)

The herO we need

Yes, we need to make a balance complaint to God to nerf Hero to only have half of his hands available.

@Neloish

Жыл бұрын

It won't work because Protoss only needs one button to A-move.

@payingforinsanity1309

Жыл бұрын

Yeah both hands is like a baby’s toy

@Rockpet

Жыл бұрын

@@Neloish lol

@brycehekman

Жыл бұрын

That's probably what happened to Byun

@Rockpet

Жыл бұрын

True

That was remakably beautiful to watch! And not just because the skipped early minutes, too!

That was a masterclass of Protoss. The key has always been map control to expand

Looks like Reynor is teaching protoss how to play like a zerg and I love it.

feel like we used to see this build order back when heart of the swarm came out I don't know why but thats when I consistently played ladder and I can remember quite a few losses on my record from mass zealot after stalkers

Whats unique about this style of gateway push is that hero is utilizing the superior mobility to apply constant pressure to the zergs larva bank. Notice how hero is only, at first, attacking at edge of the creep and blinking back as soon as the stalker shields are low. He’s building up army value while the zerg is trading shield energy for larva and unit cost. Then once he has enough, pushes in decisively and makes the final kill. The part i think most people are missing here and whats so unique is that hero figured out how to utilize blink stalkers to drain the larva bank.

@vectrom21

Жыл бұрын

I also like the overlord sniping at the first game, negating the zerg vision so he couldn't see how aggressive Hero would play. For the stalker blinking part, i think having a larger mass of zerglings would help, because, even with blink, lings are too fast for this strategy to work. Also, baiting the toss to go as forward as possible into the creep would be good too, forcing him to overextend.

Her0 making tons of usints and expanding all over the map: "I am the Zerg (Captain) now"

Great to see that Protoss can still beat Zerg sometimes. Thank you for this, Lowko. Excited to discover how the Zerg players adapt.

Never thought I would see WOL mass gateway make a comeback but with Oracle, the transition is so much smoother. 🎉

21:09 14 minutes into the game, and he still has 4 geysers. soO has nearly all of them. The hidden effect from this build is how easy it is to force the Zerg to expend way too much gas. Should they go into a more typical lategame, herO still has plenty of gas at his bases, while the Zerg will be starving for it.

@vectrom21

Жыл бұрын

Also he had a lot of money in the bank, he was out of larva.

Thanks Lowko. I really enjoyed this one!

I like the oracle opener. I’d like to see them harass when the queens move to the front to defend that first push.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this style seem to have emerged after reynor begun off racing as Protoss in various online tournaments. It seems more like reynor style than her0's.

Yay its Lowko time. Banger casts as always.

PiG's B2GM build really popping off in the pro scene right now, what a nice guy for teaching all the protoss pros how to play . *smile*

Another day, another lunch break with Lowko

Lol watching hero's intro about overtaking maru and winning a code S now.... You called it quite nicely there lowko!

This was a fun game to watch. Thanks Lowko

Deedee was Starcraft 1 pro protoss player that would build 24 gates in late game :))) it was wanderfulll. Macro at it's finest :D this brings back wonderful memories.

FOR AIUR!!!! I'm a Terran simp, but man do I love to see hyper aggressive Protos. It's so refreshing to see someone finally really taking advantage and showing off just how OP Warp Gate tech really is.

@allanshpeley4284

Жыл бұрын

Terran simp checks out.

man as soon as those zealots run in at the end, soos like omg fuck this hahahah

Don't know if this is the first video where you skip the first 2 minutes of a game, but I really like it, thank-you Lowko

Finally we see some Protoss action :)

It's gonna be a few sweet months of herO smashing zergs but after that top zergs gonna adapt and we are gonna go back to Serral smashing Protoss with 90% win rate and nobody's gonna change balance cuz c'est la vie

This is a variation of 6 to 7 min chargelot timing push. 2 to 3 Oracles are used to slow down drone production and burn larva. If oracles manage to kill 5 to 7 drones and stall drones from mining for about 20 secs the oracles pay for themselves. Then Blink or Charge and +1 attack is always completed between 6:00 to 6:15. Then it is 9 to 10 gate producing either Blink Stalker or Chargelot, while chrono boosting gateway for units and forge for upgrade advantage and twilight council to finish the other upgrade. The goal is to constantly for zerg to blow their load on making zerglings which is inefficient trade against zealots, adepts or Oracles, while blink stalker can break even against roach and ravager. Zealots will focus kill zerglings then focus queens to decrease inject > less larvae, while stalkers with break even against roach and ravager. End of the day Zealots will be left giving unit advantage to protoss.

@aquaden8344

Жыл бұрын

Easier said then done. The zerg might be dead before the first lurker finally arrive. And there are further upgrades needed to make lurkers efficient.

Hero makes me happy. Idk seems to me that Protoss is not too common up at high level and hero just shines man. So fun to watch

Im terrible at starcraft and this has been my go to build for years. I got double forge and get that juicy sheild upgrade if im going heavy blinl stalkers. Or armor if im doing heavy zealot. The progression of this build will be taking an extra gas and getting robo earlier and getting the option for upgraded colossus but not nessecary going for them. They hard counter pretty much everything zerg has to get back into the game.

I remember this is what sOs won with against life (zerg) the last blizzcon (of heart of the swarm) before legacy of the void.

a video exploring this new meta and how to counter it would be awesome

This is such of a fresh and new match style. Looks good and feels stressing...

lowko please cast the reynor vs clem DH Valencia EU grand finals

What an absolute madlad. He did it to Rogue too. The bad news for Rogue was that when he managed to get lurkers to hold off the mass gateway Hero showed him his Carrier Archon Templar Disruptor micro and dismantled the corrupter lurker viper army. It was pretty gross.

That was sick

That queen lift was pro but boy did it make my zerg heartrate spike

Protoss wins by fast expanding and produce mass units in the enemy's face like a zerg. To win as a protoss you play like a zerg. Morality: zerg OP 😂

@scruffymakaveli6870

Жыл бұрын

This is what I have been saying for years. In order to beat the zerg, one must become the zerg.

@deputyd5422

Жыл бұрын

I agree... people say toss is over powered but my memory tells me they usually lose

When there is a problem you can fix with gate units, make more gate units :)

after finishing this video, I want to see how hero loses vs zerg because this play style looks crazy.

@ukaszrodak5309

Жыл бұрын

This build doesn't work if zerg have hydralisks - they eat gateway units. Nowdays zergs forgot about this unit so gateways is working fine

@rexekim3397

Жыл бұрын

herO's build can be easily broken by roach-hydralisk but he rarely loses because herO prepares disruptors after mass gateway wave, herO sometimes just throw the zealots into banelings and that is why herO sometimes loses

@hivetech4903

Жыл бұрын

@@ukaszrodak5309 @RexeЯ kim HerO can hit before Hydras are in numbers or his eco gets to a point where he can non-stop harass. See Winter's channel, HerO V Rogue, he crushed Roach/Hydra twice with the damage being done before he got higher tech units.

@hivetech4903

Жыл бұрын

I would like to see a top 10 Zerg try old-school double evo before Lair. HerO gets his +1 so early that he's killing Lings, Roaches & Ravagers with less shots... Zerg having both an attack upgrade & carapace sooner might tip the balance but won't know until a pro tries it.

@vectrom21

Жыл бұрын

@@ukaszrodak5309 i thought about lurkers to counter this too. I don't the timings on lurker tech, so i couldn't say if it would be possible or not.

It’s nice to see Protoss becoming more of a presence at the pro level.

@googane7755

Жыл бұрын

It's nice to see pros have moved past the brain rot that is Skytoss. I think the problem was exactly that, it was too much a crutch for many and hero is showing other ways that you can successfully play protoss.

Oh ya, I was using this tactic in my bronze league games (just spam gateways and their units). I guess this works in other end of the spectrum as well :D

That moment when protoss is zerg rushing the zerg...

awesome protoss tactics :D

It’s tough when stalkers are kiting backwards or engaging in general they often are all firing at one unit (overkill). Like 16 stalkers firing at one zergling. I find it difficult to avoid given stalker’s fire rate. Any tips?

I love how the game evolves without patches jjust by pros figuring stuff out

Just seeing all those zealots charge is giving me Vietnam flashbacks

I've been playing this style for the past month or so since Harstem made a video about it. Great for us high-plat/low diamond scrubs :D

I love Zealots so much, especially the LOTV campaign Zealots. Reminds me so much of original DOTA heroes.

Protoss: Is strongest in a deathball Protoss players: What if we make the deathball....but earlier????

herO has always been on fire!

Hi Lowko ! I’ve been watching your commentaries for quite a few years now and I really enjoy them ! Thanks ! But could you please keep the original player colors ? I’ve found myself enjoying those videos even more than the ones with that classical blue vs red colors !

I like the timejump to skip the first two minutes, although one and half might be the sweer spot.

I'm a SC1 fan but since you cast a SC1 game I'll give this a go.

made me want to install this game again

Intense af so nice Protoss player

This is giving me PTSD from blink stalkers and sentries from WoL ZvP

Lowko's face is NFT material itself.

will you cast some of reynor’s protoss games from the last eu weekly?

I wonder how Serral would've reacted to this mass style.

@chaoxyz8183

Жыл бұрын

Probably Infestors. Fungal Growth shuts down gateway units pretty hard.

@hivetech4903

Жыл бұрын

@@chaoxyz8183 This is a constant pressure build designed to punish tech greed. Charge-first variant (Game 2) hits before Infestors are an option. Blink can dodge fungals before it hits. Infestors can still be good but mainly when the Zerg is maced so they can flank.

I wonder, are these replays available somewhere?

Is it a sin to say I watch Lowko's pro casts to go to sleep?

at last, some honourable protoss strategy, instead of flying over and throwing stuff out of starships :)

haha lurkers are the hard counter to this, especially with no robo till 10 minutes in and no detection till 13

Wow Amazing

Hero does not let zerg breath. He just keeps dragging them into the deep end until they tapout and drown.

... I need to try this

Damn, out-Zerging with Protoss... Hahaha gotta try this on the ladder

This would suck vs Serral/Raynors Lurker style where they defend expos with a few lurkers

@OpiatesAndTits

Жыл бұрын

Do the lurkers come out quick enough?

32:31 same mate

Loko, wasn't this what the Super computer was doing when it dominated opponents almost a year ago now? It was only using Stalker + Zealots and just being very aggressive with cheap (??) units and not needing anything more from the tech tree. How far did that super computer "test" go?

Has Tide ruling the sector.

This was my favorite strategy in SC1. Just pump out zealots and dragoons, and mix it up with archons and observers.

20:50 "First time in StarCraft history" First time in StarCraft 2 history. In BW protoss is very focused around the gateway, which is more lore accurate to their culture.

Has really was a year ahead of the meta, the mass gateway has taken off

I'm thinking lurkers will become regulars in ZvP going forward- at least for defense if not as the primary unit.

@nature337

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure zerg has enough spare time/resources for it against pruning protoss. Late game it makes sense but I think if I was a zerg I'd try proxy hatch or nydas worms to gain some breathing room

@OpiatesAndTits

Жыл бұрын

Eh that’s an expensive tech it requires two tech buildings my money is actually on infestors making a comeback. They stop blink and slow everything allowing biles to land. The problem is getting such a gas heavy unit out fast enough…

@OpiatesAndTits

Жыл бұрын

@@nature337 I’ve been thinking infesters. They require only 1 tech building and 1 upgrade. The problem is the gas. Zerg doesn’t have the luxury of getting that much gas. Maybe roach burrow movement? Burrow the damaged roaches and pull them back? I dunno it’s toughx

Would love to see hero add on 1 or 2 more gas and throw dark templar out into the army to.

IDK what are you talking about, I'been strugling against mass gateway in ladder since My first matches

i really liked it when the games didn't start at the 1 or 2 minute mark because u used to recap the prior game a bit more and build up anticipation for the next one. it also felt more like i was experiencing how the game unfolded through your eyes rather than you presenting the game

Wow, finally protoss able to keep up base wise and dominate.