Sure to be an episode with plenty to talk about. Thanks everyone for the support with the last episode hitting 10k! Be sure to help us out with this one and we will see you on the next! - Mr. Tot

I love that we have a doctor who switched to be a doctor after deciding it was enough killing. But even that choice was not without a cost.

Spock was being a good friend. Chapels issue is she is not used to leaning on others like that. She keeps her Dalliances at arms length and still isn't sure of her and Spock after he was human for a while.

I am really liking M'benga/Chappels evolving back story.

I just assumed this was how M'Benga got demoted from Commander (check his sleeve). And maybe he takes some time off to heal. Hence why other doctors (and then McCoy) are brought on board. This is why we need writers. Support the strike.

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

This makes sense to me. Definitely need writers. Huge proponent of the strike. Studios are running rampant

It was odd we don't circle back to Oretegas storming off.

Loved seeing Clint Howard back!

Great episode. Kudos to the actors for there range!

I really liked this episode. But I also didn’t enjoy myself? I don’t know. I love that we got to see more of M’Benga and Chapel’s history. Im glad they didn’t ignore that weird drug they introduced in episode 1. Robert Wisdom was great as Rah. He was very reminiscent of a variety of Cardassian defects we meet during the Dominion War. Every time he was in the room, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was also expecting the twist that M’Benga was either going to be there or maybe Rah only thought he killed his comrades or did it in an altered state and had to flee. Or maybe that Rah was faking it the whole time. I didn’t expect for M’Benga to actually be the butcher and that Rah had to defect for cowardice. There was honestly more tension in this episode than the entirety of Secret Invasion. It was also nice that we got some context as to why Ortegas acted the way she did in Quality of Mercy. I kept expecting her to show up at the field hospital. But at the same time, when I think about this episode, I didn’t have a good time. I don’t know if Im going to revisit this one anytime soon.

@nel1962

Жыл бұрын

I think the point of the episode was to make the viewer uncomfortable and question safe moral choices. I've already watched it twice just to unpack the layers of meaning.

I think you both have valid points. This episode is good and not so good. But being as I like the backstory they are giving M'benga, I'd give it a B.

There seems to be a split within the fandom between people who want their heroes to maintain the high philosophical ideals of the Federation and those who realize that these ideals are only abstract and ultimately rendered meaningless within certain spheres and conditions. (Since the Federation operates as a space empire, with its own navy for exploration, there are bound to be contradictions that need to be ironed over for the die hard fans.) Picard's speeches, as the lead representative of the Federation, aboard its flagship no less, operates as a stabilizing force for the audience that maintains a semblance of moral order and rectitude within what is ultimately an unruly universe. But this impulse is very naive and simplistic to my eyes, like most forms of patriotism that require a smooth internal monologue to justify the moral superiority of its heroes. But what if we could embrace a world where our heroes are not perfect? Then we could live with both the ideals of a great Federation while struggling with its inadequacies. Picard's very own characterization went through a bit of deconstruction once the movies began that made him less rigid and terse in this sense, and the fandom has been split on this feature of his growth, precisely because his job as a character was originally to represent the 'best' of the Federation. This episode of SNW strikes me more akin to the struggle with Federation ideals that was played out on Deep Space Nine--a station literally located on the edge of Federation (to parallel the moral struggle within the Federation by those characters closes to its margins). I mean, DS9 literally opens with Sisko squaring off with Picard--what clearer sign can you get regarding the purpose of its narrative?! And we need some of that ambiguity in the prequel to TOS to mark its place in our time: it exists after DS9 (and others shows) present us with a critique of the pristine moral philosophy generally employed on TOS and TNG. Final analysis: 8/10 episode

If they truly wanted to study PTSD then death of the ambassador should have been the beginning of the episode, not the end.

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

Now that would have been interestingn

I really liked much of this episode. The acting was good and the character details related to Chapel and the Doctor serving in a war zone were well developed. But the ending didn't work for me. I don't think that there is room for ambiguity here. The Doctor should have been arrested and prosecuted for murder. Captain Pike probably should have lost his command for allowing the tragic death to happen on his watch. It doesn't make sense that the Federation or the Kilngons would just shrug off the death of such an important diplomat. Note: They showed the bodies of civilians, including children. But good point that Chapel's lack of reaction to the explosion is unrealistic.

@vinceA3748

Жыл бұрын

Pike got a gigantic L on his forehead, from me, for this episode. His naivety and idealism were flat out embarrassing. How could he think for a second, that keeping M'benga and the Klingon in the same room was a good idea? He was completely oblivious to the PTSD suffered by M'benga. I don't see how he could possibly consider Pike a friend after this episode. Just a gigantic fail, across the board, by Pike.

@grigturcescu6190

9 ай бұрын

why would the doctor should be arrested and prosecuted ? not even the audience sees what happens. What would be the proof ?

The end was wrapped up very quickly, that was odd.

This is genuinely my favorite episode of SNW. That being said, I need them to follow-up on it.

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

A follow up would provide tons of value and address the concerns I have

@grigturcescu6190

9 ай бұрын

why? you decide, just like real life. For me it was perfect, I don't need an explanation. The whole point of this is that while we agree on much, each personal experience changes us.

@windgraceproject

9 ай бұрын

By follow-up I mean how it impacts M'Benga going forward, not necessarily a clear-cut explanation of what actually happened. @@grigturcescu6190

I didn't understand why Pike was so casual about the killing of a federation ambassador. I call BS on that part.

One of the best episodes. It really raised the stock of M'benga and nurse chapel, in my eyes. It also lowered the stock of Capt Pike a little. He's just so naive and overly idealistic in this episode. He's the type of man who would think Heinrich Himmler could be redeemed. Nope.

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

I completely agree. I think Pike was not good in this episode and hasn’t really been all season.

@vinceA3748

Жыл бұрын

@@NaterTot Yeah, it was complete fail for Pike. I don't see how M'benga could even consider him a friend after these events.

The ending kind of felt flat feel like it was missing an actual ending or some kind of consequence or drama. But i loved the whole backstory for mbenga i thought his character was really boring in season 1 but then start of season 2 where he juiced up and stuff i was like ohhh he got some stuff back then. Now we got some good chunk of backstory for him and chapel it was really dope. Makes me wonder what if we had a star trek series that was based during the war like band of brothers style. Then we see them crossover to other shows like new world in the future well at least the characters that survived the war

I was good with this episode being after Those Old Scientists. While they seem to go from comedy to drama every episode. TOS was very comedy heavy needing a bigger counterpoint. As well the next episode seems to possibly be kinda out there too.

10:37 😂😂😂

So... for the guy (I'm sorry I missed your name - my bad) who was most critical of this episode and said it was "Not Star Trek" or "Not Trek" and gave it a 'D'... that's fine that's your opinion. Remember the episode on TNG where the Enterprise encounters Romulans for... some reason whatever, and one of them is dying and needs a blood transfusion and (since for whatever reason they can't just replicate what they need) the only person on the ship who's a match is *Worf*, and Worf *refuses* to give blood even though if this Romulan dies it could mean literal war and Picard spends the *entire episode* trying to convince Worf that he should, rather than ordering Worf to do it and at the end Worf still refuses, because he hates Romulans because of what they did at Khitomer (though this particular one was not at Khitomer but fuck him anyway, right?) and THE Jean Luc Picard *gives up and tells Crusher not to ask Worf for blood again* but it didn't matter cuz the Romulan already died? Also, remember that episode of DS9 when Kira, then a surrogate for the O'Brian's second child, has a reunion with her old Resistance buddies who are picked off and murdered 1 by 1 by what turns out was a Cardassian who was getting revenge because the Resistance ruined his life and fucked up his face, and he kidnaps Kira and Kira *never* apologized even though the dude was just a clerk and never picked up a single weapon or directly hurt any Bajoran during the Occupation and Kira was like "Doesn't matter, you weren't supposed to be on the planet - you were fair game. Sorry, not sorry?" and like... that was the episode? This *is* Star Trek, dude. Trek is about the ideas we *should* strive for, but Trek writers know that not every character reaches those ideas all the time - especially during or after a war - war being the most psychotic thing sapient species do. Cuz shit's hard and grim and life can kick you in the nuts and sometimes, some folks can't be the better man because of it.

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

Nater Tot. The channel you’re commenting on. I was critical of the episode, but didn’t say it wasn’t Star Trek. Everyone has their own opinion. I don’t consider mine cement or fact, but merely a perspective. I provided that and if you don’t agree? That’s fine. Pop Tot enjoyed it and I’ve seen others do as well. I have mentioned several times in my other episode reviews that no run of Trek, no season of Trek is perfect. TNG, DS9, VOY all had problematic arcs. The only difference, perhaps what makes it more noticeable, is SNW is ten episodes. Harder to hide the faults. I digress. I do agree with your points and am glad you enjoyed it!

@Gangerworld

Жыл бұрын

@@NaterTot NaterTot! Happy to be corrected on that! New to the channel. Didn't notice before when you gave your score that you put your names there. I was listening, not watching :P. Gave it a second watch. You did mention that the ending was *"so mind-bogglingly not Star Trek"*, which is what I was referring to. Around 2:20 mark of the video. And I disagree. I found it extremely Star Trek. Just the Star Trek we tend to push into the back of our minds because it especially takes a look at Roddenberry's utopia and says "Not quite. Not so simple." I wouldn't go as far as to say I "enjoyed" the episode. However I just found some of your particular criticisms about it odd considering your comparisons to TNG and DS9 episodes. You mentioned being disappointed that the crew was fractured and that Pike didn't do a Picard and show/tell M'Benga the error of his ways when in TNG Picard failed to do that with Worf in the episode I mentioned, and no one even attempted it with Kira in that other episode I mentioned earlier. There was no real "coming together of the crew" in those episodes. Crusher was pretty disappointed with Worf that he didn't give blood and Worf was never reprimanded. Anyway, this episode was no "These Old Scientists" (curiously that's what the episode is called in my DVR but whatever) and the tonal whiplash was extreme, I agree. I just disagree that TNG or DS9 or VOY or ENT would have treated this subject matter and these characters differently with loftier ideas.

I'm confused,.., did I get totally punked by all the "It's a musical episode" talk or did I just dream that? Is there a secret Trek wink I'm unaware of?

I loved the Ep. Solid 8/10. I kept wishing the ambassador would get killed because he was horrible

@NaterTot

Жыл бұрын

He definitely GG’d

@adamherne2348

Жыл бұрын

I'm not defending the ambassador even though I'm sure it will seem that way to some but how is it wrong what he did but it's ok for M'Benga to kill him because at least he's not as bad as the ambassador? Seems like a pretty weak justification to me.

@Bored_Barbarian

Жыл бұрын

@@adamherne2348 the Ambassador was basically space Hitler, or insert other crazed military leader. He killed women and children. M’benga killed officers. The line at the end “what about justice”. What happened to Ras was justice, at least in my opinion

@adamherne2348

Жыл бұрын

@@Bored_Barbarian so murder is ok as long as the person being murdered is worse than the murderer?

This was a good episode. I had to watch it twice to really appreciate it. At first i hated it. The writing was rather "kid friendly" it totally was not on the level of the Deep Space Nine, but i enjoyed it.

So Mbenga believes he was justified in committing homicide, because the Ambassador committed war crimes? Then the Federation *should* have insisted that he (the Ambassador) should be held and punished for War Crimes. I understand that PTSD is very complex and is not all all treated in a way that is sorely needed for many people. But that doesn't not justify why a person committed homicide. But for Pike not to place him under arrest shows he (and the writers) not wanting to have any sort of consequence placed on any of the characters. If the writers of the show are writing characters who need to have their hands held anytime a character beams aboard the Enterprise, due to their past experiences and or bigotry, then there needs to be a crew change. 🤷🏻‍♀ Yeah, I know that it's an episode of a fictional TV show, but the episode pissed me off.

I thought i was the only one who hated it. Strange New Worlds is so frustrating because there is so much I like but it just doesn't work for me yet. I want to give it a chance to grow a beard but it looks like it's becoming more like Discovery. I really liked Mbenga until this episode.

I'll take a DS9-esuqe episode over the dumb Musical thing.

I think the comments here embody why I don't like modern Trek shows. My rating for Star Trek shows, modern and old (and some other Sci-Fi shows for comparison): Star Trek DS9 (9) Star Trek TNG (7.5) The Expanse (7.4) ST Voyager(6.7) ST Enterprise (6.6) Firefly (6.3) (so overrated, it's only 1 season worth of entertainment, that is reflected in my rating) The old Battlestar Galactica (BSG) (6) Farscape (5.5) The new BSG (4.9) Foundation (4.8) Picard (4.7) (eg. season 1: 5, season 2: 2, season 3: 7) The Orville (4.6) ST Discovery (4.5) Lost in Space (4.3) Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (4.2) Andromeda (4) Yep, SNW hits rock bottem for me for the Star Trek Franchise. To be fair, amount of content is reflected in the rating (less content = lower rating), and since SNW is the latest one, it has the least content yet. But if it continues at this level of enjoyment for me, it won't go up much with more content, just like ST Discovery didn't go up for me, it's been stuck at 4.5 for a few years now (I keep my notepad list updated for assistance in my streaming choices; the rating is actually more based on the question: 'Do I want to watch this again?' More content is better re-watchability, especially if you're going for a 3rd or 4th bingewatch; shows like Firefly are just too short to watch again within a short time period).

@ShazzPotz

11 ай бұрын

Why do you rate Foundation so low? Where is your rating of Star Trek TOS?

@Uenbg

11 ай бұрын

@@ShazzPotz I don't like the vague far-fetched stuff in Foundation that wasn't in the original books (in particular the first 2 episodes of this season there's a lot of it that doesn't make much sense and is too much like Alice in Wonderland-weirdness; I'm talking about the mathematical and dimensional weirdness, and Seldon's ghost, or whatever it's supposed to be, including the other things he sees, I didn't like that part in Interstellar either, the weird fantasy and pseudoscience stuff). Nor can I think of any character that I'm interested in (want to see more scenes of). In terms of casting and character choice (and how much of the story revolves around particular characters at the neglect of others or interesting story development), it's a typical modern show, which also doesn't have a lot of allure to it for me (I don't stomach modern propaganda all that well, it's boring and takes up an annoying amount of time at the expense of a good story or entertaining stuff, and characters I _would_ care to see more of, rather than the usual cliche characters of modern shows, checking all their boxes and buttons to push for what they call "modern audiences", which term is an appeal to pride, a well-known propaganda technique part of the general tactic of playing on the emotions). There's also not a whole lot of content yet, cause modern shows take too long to produce a decent amount of episodes that can progress a storyline. All these reasons and more lower the rating for me, which is based on re-watchability value (more content is better re-watchability). After season 1 I still had Foundation at a rating of 6.1. After the Interstellar-style pseudoscience weirdness and focus on the 2 girl bosses, the 'strong woman' characters, in the first 2 episodes of season 2, I lowered the rating to 4.3. It just goes to show how much I dislike the pseudoscience weirdness where the writers think they're being clever or something. I gave it +0.5 for episode 3, mainly for the epic CGI shots (the story also seemed to get a bit more interesting, something of significance happening between Empire and Foundation). But they didn't really go through with it in the next episode. So I'm keeping it at 4.8 for now. The rather large skip in storytime in between seasons 1 and 2, as well as the long period it took for season 2 to come out, also didn't help (it was hard to follow who was who and what happened the last season cause I forgot, I also forgot about the forgettable characters, including the 2 girls, and I didn't care enough to go back to season 1 to figure out who these characters were or why they were important other than the usual reasons these types appear in modern shows, which usually leads to me skipping many scenes with them and thus completely forgetting they were in the show to begin with; also because the scenes with either girl weren't interesting, the one girl being into pseudoscience weirdness and pretentious nonsense, the other being on some backward planet with little Sci-Fi going on if I remember right, unless that was also the first math girl). I've never watched ST TOS in its entirety, the graphics are a little too outdated for my taste. So I can't rate it.

@Uenbg

11 ай бұрын

@@ShazzPotz Or you can watch the video "Is Foundation season 2 an improvement?" to get an idea why some people might not like it as much.

@ShazzPotz

11 ай бұрын

@@Uenbg Thanks for the video tip about Foundation S2. Also, thanks for your comprehensive explanation of your views of the Foundation TV show so far. I haven't watched Season 2 yet, but I think I understand what you mean about too many young black strong women characters who are obviously shoehorned into the show, not to advance or enrich the story, but just to have more young, black, strong female representation. These diversity hires were not in Asimov's books and they are ultimately distracting from one of the most truly original, inventive, epic, monumental galactic stories ever told. I did find Gaal Dornick interesting in the show, but Salvor Hardin seems miscast and annoying to me. My daughter and I (who have both read the trilogy) found to our surprise after Season 1, that we were most intrigued by the Emperor Dawn/Day/Dusk, even more than Hari Seldon. I think this cloned emperor concept is fascinating, and Lee Pace did an outstanding job of bringing Day to life. We find ourselves rooting for the emperor - we know this is wrong - but he is cool. We even think this emperor-triad could star in his own spinoff show someday. The Foundation trilogy is my favourite science fiction book, over Dune, Ender's Game, Neuromancer, Hyperion, etc.

The entire premise of the show was just wrong and very not Star Trek. Not only is M'benga an assassin, and most likely a murderer of a Klingon ambassador, but why would Rah's generals follow those orders? Those are the orders of a coward and there was no honor in them yet ALL Klingon generals follow them? Not only that, why would a Klingon war general make decisions that could bring dishonor to him and his bloodline? None of this mess of a show makes sense. Oh, and now we have this magical green goo that can transform a human into a super solider. Now we get a musical episode....so there's that.

Worst Star Trek episode ever

I've given up with star trek if they do the Legacy show and Matalas is the show runner i may consider coming back just for that but i'm just done with this now. All this is is just an extension of the JJ Abrams universe its star trek only on the surface with the ships and visuals but underneath the franchise has lost its way and become the complete and utter opposite to Roddenberry's vision plus a whole load of other things such as hugely bad writing with no depth to the stories further perpetuating the vanity surface level show star trek has become so much now that even strange new worlds is going towards the badness of Picard season 1 and 2 at high warp.

This was by far the worst episode of this series so far

I liked it, I had no need for a palate cleanser ep, but it's very imperfect. I was okay with the ninja bit, they did the backstory on that and this was supposed to be the payoff. But it should have ended with Tot's call to Pike, or the Klingon visibly going for the doc to cover his past, not that veiled whodunit that leaves us with a medical professional that keeps bloodied war trophies and that's potentially able to murder in cold blood and remains on Enterprise through potentially two 5 year missions. SNW has worked hard to push the same "we strive to be better" ethos that culminated in pre-DS9, early-to-mid NG-era "We are a utopian society now." Doc's story is essentially the same as the ensign in Orville's 3rd season, but Orville did it the Roddenberry Way.