"A guy at the Apple Store taught me how to use DuckDuckGo"

@SnarkNSass

8 ай бұрын

😕🤨Wut?!?!😂😂😂😂 The video just started, hopefully it's a joke I'll get later 😂😂

@MarvelX42

8 ай бұрын

The Star Trek universe works on the idea that everything that happened in the past has already happened. People saying things means nothing. Any records that have incorrect dates are because most records were corrupted or lost in WW3. The timeline in all of the shows is and has always been the same timeline with the exception of when they have gone to alternate realities. When they return to the present it is always the same present that they left.

@bjorn00000

8 ай бұрын

That was a genuinely funny line.

@bjorn00000

8 ай бұрын

@@RandomNPC001 Good thing they didn't tap into the Barbie universe then.

@padinspi11

8 ай бұрын

​@@SnarkNSass that's a line from "tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow"

Let’s just ask Garak for the answer. Garak, what is canon now? Garak: it’s all canon. Even the inconsistencies? Garak: especially the inconsistencies.

@johnchedsey1306

8 ай бұрын

This is the new canonical answer!

@ThommyofThenn

8 ай бұрын

Hahahaha NICE

@kal0247

8 ай бұрын

It can't all be canon. It either fits or it doesn't.

@shakycameratheater

8 ай бұрын

I still think we could have colonized the solar system and beyond "without World War 3". I know this is weak.

@jaegan438

8 ай бұрын

That's the beauty of this explanation; even when it doesn't fit, it still fits. :)

Also, in TOS, the Gorn were completely foreign to the Federation, before Kirk meets up with them… In the new series, the Gorn are everywhere!

@deker0954

8 ай бұрын

"We're not going back!"

@langleymneely

8 ай бұрын

That’s a fundamental change I have serious problems with because of the showrunners literally saying that the Gorn are evil. The entire point of that original Gorn episode Arena was to illustrate that no species is evil, just misunderstood or operating from a different moral perspective. That’s THE essence of Star Trek and dumbing the Gorn down to xenomorph knock offs kind of taints the spirit in which they were meant to be depicted. Visually I have no problem with their redesign but conceptually it bothers me.

@xkot6431

8 ай бұрын

@@langleymneely 100% agree about the SNW Gorn ruining the very Star Trek theme of "Arena." I would like the new Gorn much better if they had been a new species of alien life, and not "the" Gorn.

@jp6869

8 ай бұрын

At least it wasn't a rubber Gorn this time!

@xkot6431

8 ай бұрын

@@jp6869 I honestly prefer the rubber suit over the design and CGI of the new Gorn. I'm sure a practical Gorn (with CG enhancements) could be made today that would be superior to both the OG and the new Gorn.

This pretty much sums up how I feel on the whole timelines thing. I used to be far more concerned with timelines and continuity until I started delving into the lore in depth then realised there's holes all over the place anyway. So yeah, I 100% agree that the broad strokes lining up is the more important thing to maintain. I still enjoy trying to map it all out however, but ultimately I just have to accept (for example) that if its official that TOS takes place after SNW, then discrepancies or no, it do take place after SNW.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Well said!

@prolamer7

8 ай бұрын

You gave up on timelines because ST world today is so broken there is no point to explaining anything anymore. It is just one big mess. The plotholes of past were worth exploring and explaining because they were just holes. But today state is just one pille of junk not worth even watching.

@kellybowe354

8 ай бұрын

@@prolamer7Okay then, stop wasting your time watching. The rest of us will find our personal joy in the whole of Star Trek, wherever it may be. Live long and prosper 🖖.

@prolamer7

8 ай бұрын

@@kellybowe354 I already stopped watching new serries. Do you want to take my free speach away, to silence me? Because you have no arguments? The new stuff just is not Star Trek. It lacks everything old one had.

@kellybowe354

8 ай бұрын

@@prolamer7 You are absolutely welcome to your free speech, your opinion and your defensive attitude. Have fun. I feel secure in acknowledging that some of the population is enjoying the ride rather than judging. Cheers!

I’ve been saying this to my wife for ages. EVERY SHOW is its own continuity descended from earlier shows! Every show is an “alternate” universe with tiny changes to the “previous” universe. And like magic, every “canon” problem is solved!

@The_Gallowglass

3 ай бұрын

Not every show.

@StewBedazzle

2 ай бұрын

I wish I lived in an alternative universe to the one that brain dead consumers make excuses for nice things being ruined

@williamquinlan6153

Ай бұрын

There is one show - Star Trek. Every new series is just further steps down the timeline.

“People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it’s more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly… time-y wimey… stuff.” - Doctor Who

@necromancexiii

8 ай бұрын

Came to say this

@gundamleviathan5760

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for reminding me why I can't stand Doctor Who.

@beepboop204

8 ай бұрын

timetravel opens up so many creative weirdnesses

@nowheremedia329

8 ай бұрын

so lazy writing?

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

Long before {sic} The Doctor said that, Douglas Adams wrote that reality is a "whole sort of general mish-mash" which punier creatures use "perception filters" to observe; creatures without such perception filters, being depicted as timeless & terrifying endgame monsters.

Book from the 1970's: "You're going to have interstellar communication by 2044" Reality: " We made an iPhone slightly better than last year's one!" :p

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

God I hope we get to Mars next decade

@Sp33ddialz

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver I'll be happy if we make it back to the moon by the end of the decade, at this rate.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Yep. I think they'll meet that deadline, but they're most definitely gonna take their time. As they should, but we should have already been back anyway

My stance is, and has been for many years now, that the TOS timeline has been altered by the constant time travelling through the TNG era in particular, but the first biggest change came about in First Contact, which led to the timeline which we see in ENT (where the NX-01 was named after the 1701-E), and the timeline was further altered by the Temporal Cold War, which leads us into DISCO, etc (including the revised future on everything post-FC). Which is why suddenly in Nemesis the NX-01 did exist in Trek's history, although never seen or mentioned before (and let's be honest, if ENT always happened, there is no way in hell the NX-01's role in the founding of the Federation would have been ignored considering the importance of the Enterprise legacy).

@dustojnikhummer

23 күн бұрын

So anything after First Contact (ignoring Kelvin) is a second Prime Timeline? Ie ENT, Disco and SNW?

@replimatreviews

23 күн бұрын

@@dustojnikhummer Very much so. And the writers even confirmed it in SNW when they put in the line about how temporal agents (and thus, one can easily assume, the temporal cold war) have altered the order of events.

@replimatreviews

23 күн бұрын

@@dustojnikhummer Very much so. And the writers even confirmed it in SNW when they put in the line about how temporal agents (and thus, one can easily assume, the temporal cold war) have altered the order of events.

One additional detail i found interesting in the SNW episode is the comment that history seems to be pushing back against timeline changes. It gave the sense that, rather than small changes in the past culminating in massive future changes in most instances, it takes truly monumental changes to substantially alter the future, and even then such changes may be more subtle than intended. Edit: In hindsight, there is one episode that does depict the timeline changing substantially from a seemingly minor alteration, City on the Edge of Forever. This episode (and technically its TAS followup) involves seemingly minor changes that cause lasting alterations of greater significance. This raises the possibility: could the Guardian of Forever itself be what is holding the timeline together.

I like the idea that since time travel is so easy in the Star Trek universe, there are little alterations happening nearly constantly. So rather than several distinct timelines, it's just reality shifting and changing. Temporal investigations thinks they're staying on top of it, but they only notice when something big happens. Most changes just go completely unnoticed. It's a neat explanation that fits with the abundance of time travel plots in Star Trek and can explain basically any subtle discontinuity between shows.

@acereporter73

8 ай бұрын

I've embraced the malleability of history and time in Star Trek.

@keiyakins

8 ай бұрын

I'm pretty sure Star Trek's timeline is butterfly-resistant too. You have to try, or seriously screw up, to make major changes.

@dixievfd55

8 ай бұрын

This happens in STO in one mission. You stop an assassination attempt only for Captain Walker to show up after the fact saying something about a temporal shift. Your response is something along the lines of "Yeah. We took care of it."

@MrAdharus

8 ай бұрын

Yeah..i realy like that point of view....it actualy fix and clear all controversyes

@takayukiuto2294

8 ай бұрын

​

With as much time travel shenanigans that happen each series, it's a wonder the timeline hasn't completely fractured. Every Trek series spends at least two episodes and a two-parter doing time travel.

@Tao_Tology

8 ай бұрын

Timeline Preservation Division: "And we thought Janeway was trouble......"

@ChrisS-no3ft

8 ай бұрын

If they would have not messed with it in the 1st place starting in 2009, everything might be still great, and we wouldn’t be talking about it right now.

@Tao_Tology

8 ай бұрын

@@ChrisS-no3ft "still be great" 🤦🏻‍♂️ You aren't getting "that feeling I had when I was younger" anymore because........ you are not young anymore.

@AaronLitz

8 ай бұрын

The timeline is like a stream. Throw a boulder into it and it will block the flow and divert it in another direction. Throw a few pebbles in and it will cause some ripples, but the stream will keep flowing in the same direction.

@vinapocalypse

8 ай бұрын

*Mark Twain has entered the chat* Nyahah-hah!

I think the temporal cold war is just a way for writers to have an in universe justification for retconing the prime timeline. We've seen that it is possible to change the timeline without creating a splinter universe. There's an episode in TNG where they deal with something like this but I dont remember the name right now.

@TheMrPeteChannel

5 ай бұрын

Parallels

@davfree9732

3 ай бұрын

ENT's cold war couldn't retcon the Prime timeline. The Prime timeline didn't exist until JJ created the idea of it in 2009. Keep in mind, JJ took something that at the time he was unable to use... Spock. Specifically Lenard Nimoy's Spock. All the marketing around his character referred to him as Prime Spock which is an important marketing distinction for legal reasons. The idea of the Prime Timeline with no explanation, save for Nimoy's involvement did not state that Prime covered the shows of TOS to ENT... As JJ sneakily admitted through his script... "Oh... I... Implied..." When Prime was created, it was in reference to a timeline and continuity that had never been committed to screen leaving the audience to pull from what they knew. And what they knew was Classic Trek that filled in the gaps JJ left with his light of hand that allowed him to do no work in telling the audience what Prime was.

The Borg created the whole Enterprise events. Zeffy saw the Enterprise E in orbit and used that as a future model for future warp ships.

years ago, i started realizing that it's all overlapping sets of timelines - there's enough time travel in the original series to justify that - i started to see the continuity errors as temporal incursions and realized that every single series has had time travel shenanigans!! so i've LONG waited for a vid like this - thanks Tyler!!!! srry about your bachelors degreee lol (i literally loled)

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Seven! Lol

@johnmiller7682

8 ай бұрын

I've always believed that every series takes place in its own timeline.

@Tao_Tology

8 ай бұрын

"we didn't make a mistake......uhm.......multiple timelines!" is a real Endgame-level excuse.

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

Not just each show; due to conceptual differences between the writers of one episode to the next, there are enough flagrant flip-flops in attitude, established tech, & clerical data, to warrant the assumption that we were shown _at least_ two Kirks captaining on TOS, three or four Picard TNGs, etc. The downside is that people who hate time travel stories may never feel that anything matters, in such a case (any realities being replaceable drops in a bucket); however, the upside is that any narrative inconsistencies a series exhibits, can be set aside with "canonically, multiple parallel timelines are happening, & sometimes our change of view is not revealed until later: therefore, maybe that flaw in this episode will be retconned into making sense, by a future episode of this or another Trek series". Trek's parallel timelines bump & rub so much they reproduce season by season.

@tendracalrissian8820

8 ай бұрын

I prefer the theory that all of Star Trek, from ToS to DS9, is just a bunch of Starfleet propoganda intended to romanticize space exploration and downlplay the dangers of it. That, I think, extends to what we see of the "history" of earth in particular, and the vulcans' history also, to a lesser extent. This covering up of the real history keeps most humans from asking too many questions about their own past, some of which might be very uncomfortable for Starfleet and the government of earth to answer. The only series that is less made-up, because it'd be too hard to hide most of the events, is DS9, except that the dominion war is almost all just pure fiction, as far as tactics and overall strategy goes, as no warfighting force can make that many terrible decisions and still win the war.

The timeline was broken in the very first ep of Enterprise. It was further polluted when the Mirror Universe Tholiams pulled the Connie class Defiant back in time. Everything since then that has changed can be explained by those two incidents

@firetoacat

8 ай бұрын

And I am fine with it. If it means that we see more touch screens and zippers in their uniforms, then its a plus in my books. And them having more media in the future.

@acmenipponair

8 ай бұрын

Enterprise isn't even the breakup - the breakup is Movie 8, on which Enterprise is based on.

@supermanprime6758

8 ай бұрын

@@acmenipponair If you mean the borg guys found at the north pole...theres some indication thats a predestined temporal event. "Broken Bow" absolutely isnt. It in no way resmebles first contact with the Klingons as described by Picard

The Enterprise show wanted its cake and to eat it too. The Temporal Cold War changed the timeline (or created an alternate reality). However the infamous finale These Are the Voyages made it clear that the show was, somehow, part of the same timeline as TOS and TNG. My theory is that every time there is time travel an alternate reality is created. Some realities look more like the reality the traveler left depending on the changes. As for Discovery, that was different due to the Red Angel which we didn’t learn about until Season Two.

@EspenSGX

8 ай бұрын

Don't forget about the Star Trek: First Contact Borg that were woken up from the ice in Star Trek: Enterprise. That too would mean the TNG timeline lines up to ENT's. Especially because the Enterprise-E could return to its future. And that kind of can't be a different timeline either, because we saw an assimilated Earth before Picard and co. did their thing in the past. (It's headache inducing.) And then we've got the Enterprise novels, which present different dates than ENT's finale and makes the death of a character a scheme to go undercover because of the upcoming Earth-Romulan War. And that information is found by Sisko's kid after DS9! (I do know that the novels aren't seen as hard canon, but still.)

The whole temporal cold war thing sort of makes it so things remain canon even after they are changed, as in, the old canon was how it was before somebody messed with the past, in other words, i like the idea that every series is a different timeline, there is so much time travel within the shows, we are watching how the time travel constantly alters the entire universe past and future as we view different chunks of the universe

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

There's definitely several concurrent Picards, at this point. Not only are there separate timelines, but they keep influencing each other, too.

@carolhenry7495

8 ай бұрын

That's all a good excuse or reason or how ever ya wanna put it. Doesn't excuse or justify or even VALIDATE the writers who just don't care, who flagrantly believe their one story, one episode, one franchise, one series, is MORE important than the whole realm. Eventually it will be unreconsiable and ONLY each story it's own timeline-universe-reality. And no "World Building" can be relied upon, due to those writers who fail to do their job and know the content their writing about.

@prophetzarquon1922

7 ай бұрын

@@carolhenry7495 I agree, sort of. When the continuation of an old story doesn't hold up, it's painful for anyone who can appreciate the original; when it _does_ hold up & serves to extend & enhance the old story, it's marvellous... I see new Trek shows doing a _great_ job of revisiting old stories, but falling flat when they step _outside_ the existing canon; especially when the "new" things introduced are shoehorned in, it can feel like the elaborate setting the writer has been given, has been ignored in order to focus on _their_ story. Selfish, and lazy. When they make callbacks, I love it. When they break new ground, I'm usually entranced. When they overwrite for the sake of blatant patronizing, I feel insulted.

Something else worth considering in Chernobyl specifically. It effectively ended virtually all research and development into Nuclear power across all nations, resulting in heavier reliance on fossil fuels and a regression in terms of energy dependency. Fear about Chernobyl caused immense damage to nuclear energy prospects globally and in conjunction with Three Mile Island ended on the spot countless nuclear projects in the United States. Also thank you for being (one of the strangely few) sane Star Trek fan who realizes the show has to adapt to modern paradigms. Also your editing isn't half bad.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Alnarra! I didn't edit most of this video, but I like to think I do pretty well on the projects I do edit lol. I do have that degree...XD

@Alnarra

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver It certainly shows, a lot of little framing things in the shots and the cuts are well done :D Keep up the good work

@jasonvoorhees8545

8 ай бұрын

Modern paradigms? Quit sniffing glue. The Trek being produced in Discovery and here with SNW will age faster than anything produced in the 90"s. The talent that is writing STD and SNW is so watered down that I get way more value in Sisko's struggle with racial inequality in one episode of DS9 than both of STD and SNW combined. The character development in these newer shows is.... Ah nevermind. It's like talking to a brick wall.

@randomobserver8168

8 ай бұрын

@@jasonvoorhees8545 Indeed- TOS holds up decently apart from production values, though it a little reflects the sort of mildly post-liberal democratic technocratic ideals of its era. We'll be back to those soon enough. TNG mostly holds up with the same caveat on production values for the early seasons, with few episodes that really reflect specifically 80s concerns. Though the complete inversion of how people interpret "Code of Honor" is funny. It went from a jumble of 80s postcolonial Afrocentrist tropes to being a racist parody. A rare such misstep. 90s Trek holds up just fine. Even Enterprise does. Modern Trek has Starfleet officers talking to one another like petulant Valley girls or whining about their feelings. People like that didn't get through any Academy.

@randomobserver8168

8 ай бұрын

All previous Trek was product of its eras, but none went so far as to have characters act and talk to one another exactly like the silliest of contemporary humans. Writers usually strove for some kind of paradigm that at least suggested the combination of human continuity and different cultural eras creating different patterns. TOS was at its worst when it tried to incorporate period tropes like hippies. Later series did not really have characters acting like 80s or 90s people in any explicit ways.

Not just the Voyager 6 probe (that program must have been VERY different to our one!) but also the launch of NOMAD and those amazing improvements to sub-light engines in 2018 - we all remember those, right? 😉

@worldcomicsreview354

8 ай бұрын

I remember saying that about "the third Chinese moon mission", when I was 12. Nowadays in my own sci-f back story, World War 3 just ended right now. ！歳蛮！歳蛮！歳蛮

@MatthewCaunsfield

8 ай бұрын

@@NextWorldVR Saying that the Star Trek universe has NOTHING to do with our actual universe is one of the silliest comments I've heard of, in many years regarding Star Trek. There are numerous people, images, references and callbacks to real world events, from TOS all the way up to SNW. The differences (as well as a the commonalities) are precisely the subject of conversation in the video.

@CT-uv8os

8 ай бұрын

Star Trek is fiction. Period.Fiction is dated after awhile. Alternate timelines in ST or any other franchise are fine with me. Its all good.

@flyingwombat59

8 ай бұрын

You remind of a fifth season episode of Doctor Who when the 11th Doctor discovers that his companion, Amy, has no memory of the Earth being stolen along with 25 other worlds. Turned it had something to do with current storyline.

@MatthewCaunsfield

7 ай бұрын

@@sabrewolf4129 You aren't responding to anything I wrote. You're only continuing to make unsupported claims.

Somewhere, in storage, i still have a beat up, tattered Star Fleet Technical manual from the 70’s. What a great book!

It’s one of the problems with sci-fi that references a real future date. Eventually that date comes around in the real world. The events of the eugenics wars is fine until the writers felt it necessary to give a date certain for those events.

I always felt Star Trek was a glimpse of a more prosperous future. A story meant to inspire us down a similar path. I've never had a problem with the retcons. Only some of the writing, cough, cough, Picard, cough...

@dickhardpicard

8 ай бұрын

Choke on your cough. I am star trek

@peterschlange1832

8 ай бұрын

@@dickhardpicard I seem to have hit a nerve. How sad for you...

@dickhardpicard

8 ай бұрын

@@peterschlange1832 just for you kzread.info/dash/bejne/fYBnucSzhaSrn84.html&feature=share8

@deker0954

8 ай бұрын

​​@@peterschlange1832limpicard, that's the problem. I've heard season 3 finely got the show off the ground though. They took control from baldy.

@peterschlange1832

8 ай бұрын

@@deker0954 the end of picard was decent.I suppose, didn't start that way though

It's all one timeline, Wesley is just weaving his Tapestry across the chronology.

After the problems with the WD-1, WD-40 made space travel really smooth!

@DavidCoxDallas

8 ай бұрын

had a similar reaction to his "more robust WD-40" comment" 🤣

In my headcanon, the various technologies that went into the NX Class (antimatter, warp 5, phase cannons, transporters, etc.) were implemented about 10 years earlier than they should have shown up. It's like when Scotty gave Dr. Nichols the formula for transparent aluminum. All of it was technically possible for the time, but it just hadn't been figured out yet. This was done so that Enterprise could get to the Sphere Builders in time to stop them from destroying Earth. I use Starfleet Museum's interpretation as my "unaltered timeline" with Archer captaining one of several Amarillo Class ships that were sent on exploratory missions

Two options: Option 1: Time alterations push pivotal canon events back. Option 2: Everything is canon "from a certain point of view." Each show has its own self-contained canon.

@QuintarFarenor

8 ай бұрын

Option 2 feels like "Everything is canon for that specific series' timeline as long as it isn't directly contradicted by something in that series"

@williammitchell4417

8 ай бұрын

The Powers that Be could care less about "Timelines". What makes them money is all they really care about.

@TomGallagherSuperboyBeyond

8 ай бұрын

I look at it more that the prime timeline is a little more malleable than previously thought. We already know some time travel events result in entire new timelines, while others seemingly don't affect it. Even in SNW, the fact that Laan couldn't return to her timeline until it was restored, is evidence of this. It's almost as if the universe course corrects itself to protect future events in the timeline itself. So it's still the prime timeline, and it's following the example set during the Berman era.

@carnifexor3010

8 ай бұрын

Old Ben Kenobi would be proud!

@TheZamaron

8 ай бұрын

Or multiverse, timeline just cross over at points, some timeline changes are temporary, some are permenant, for example the timeline we see in All Good Things, that's one timeline on how things WOULD have played out if the temporal anomaly wasn't dealt with, if the ENterprise -D wasn't half destroyed in Generations, but because of Q Picard manages to fix the issue but erases that timeline, but he still remembers his jumps, in that timeline the ENterprise-E still arrived fromt he future and helped Cochrane launch his ship. However there's still some quantum bullshit that occurs resulting in multiple timelines like Nero's ship the Narada going back in time creating the Kelvin Timeline. I see it as that the changes we saw with Kahn in the timeline we see in this episode of SNW was erased from happening, the only one who knew it did was La'ahn with having her memories.

When the original Star Trek had a Kirk from another dimension, they opened up Canon big time. It allowed a huge amount of story telling. Any direction 😂❤

“Time line?! This is no time to argue about time! We don't have the time!” 🖖🏻🤣

It’s always been an alternate reality/timeline. I feel like the decision to add real world events as we moved through the future history TOS mapped out was fueled by the writers to keep Trek feeling connected to our future. Look too hard at it & you’ll go cross eyed, but at arm’s length it’s pretty easy to roll with the changes. Trek is aspirational & optimistic sci-fi. Gene wanted it to explore the human condition as well as inspire us to do better.

@TheIrvy

8 ай бұрын

I agree, since in the Star Trek world there probably wasn't a show called Star Trek depicting the "real" future. Personally, I think a hand wave is the best way to keep the show fresh and fitting with the contemporary world. Our modern history already surpasses TOS and even TNG personal computers, the internet, and our usage of tablets, phones and our development of text to speech software, just as 1 example, have informed some of the changes in the modern show. Nobody in TNG swiped their padd with their finger the way they do in SNW. One little detail that was missed in the video was that Data referenced the reunification of Ireland as happening in 2024. I know we're not quite there yet, but I really doubt that's something that's going to happen next year. That reference was actually removed from the UK airing of the episode ("The High Ground") to avoid offending folk. Honestly, I think you just have to roll with it. My personal opinion is that it's not an alternate timeline, but an altered one. Every time travel episode of pretty much any franchise warns of stepping on butterflies, and I doubt it would be possible to time travel without doing it. If a new timeline is created when that happens, as in the MCU, then there would be no need for temporal accords or temporal investigations, since the new timeline would pop into existence without affecting the timeline the travellers came from. In that view of time travel, you could never get back to the timeline you left, because you'd return to the new timeline you created. The "prime" universe would always be safe, so no need to ban time travel. However, if that were true, then the history of the prime universe would record the destruction of the Enterprise D with all hands lost when it collided with the Bozeman. Kirk and his landing party would have blipped out of existence as soon as they entered the Guardian of Forever, never to be heard of again. Now I'm getting a temporal headache. My bottom line, I want modern Trek to be exciting, new, and able to tell whatever stories it wants to, without having to worry about what Unnamed Ensign #3 said in the 1960s, back when Star Trek wasn't a major franchise, but was a silly little space show that would soon be cancelled and moved on from. They weren't planning then for how this would lead to SNW or any of the rest of it. At the very worst, if some people can't watch the show anymore because of the changes, the "original" timeline is still there, on bluray, on streaming services, and unlike Doctor Who we have every episode, and presumably always will. Personally, I want to push on and have bold new adventures and not be beholden to canon. Time travel can be a handy plot device.

@aaronmonse3643

8 ай бұрын

SNW is prime timeline and always has been.

@beepboop204

8 ай бұрын

anytime there is time travel and multiple timeline shenanigans, all bets are off lol

@lucasbachmann

8 ай бұрын

@@aaronmonse3643 no.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

@lucasbachmann Didn't know you were part of Strange New Worlds' creative staff!

This is a great video. Yesterday I was debating this online with someone about this. He couldn't acknowledge that Strange New Worlds confirmed that the timeline had been altered.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thanks a bunch!

@jae-kwangkim6012

8 ай бұрын

The idea that the timeline is altered is the best route they could've gone. This way TOS can remain its own thing and Discovery officially hasn't infected anything. The Discoverse is in its own universe, similar to the Kelvin timeline.

@dexterfurman9118

8 ай бұрын

Separate timelines is just an excuse for the writers to do what they want. Yes, a lot of canon in TOS was written in the 1960's and events that happened in 1996 (Khan) must be overlooked, since we are clearly in 2023. But, canon is a big part of what made Star Trek great. It treated the world of Trek and its characters as if they were real. If there was time travel in TOS it didn't really change anything. Today's writers are not real fans of the Star Trek world and I honestly believe they are too lazy to do the proper research and don't care if they rewrite canon because it is so much easier for them to change things to suit their needs for getting a script into production.

@williamquinlan6153

Ай бұрын

​@@dexterfurman9118the crux.

The "I have a bachelor's degree" line made me a subscriber, I think the more personality you inject makes for better videos and you should keep it up!!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!!

@stevencoardvenice

8 ай бұрын

​@@OrangeRiver He is SMART.

12:11 Tyler: "Where should we draw the line?" Picard: "THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE!"

you get an alt timeline, and you get an alt timeline and you got an alt timeline! I'm going out on a limb and say: just go for the ride and enjoy it all.

One of the concerning implications from "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" is that the Noonien-Singh Institute might have been an operation by Federation temporal agents.

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

Singh & Soong are just microns apart, too: The Daystrom Institute seems to be caught up in Section-31 / Control shenanigans, as well.

@od1452

8 ай бұрын

Lol... Oh man.. I didn't suspect that.

@bjorn00000

8 ай бұрын

@@od1452 What's worse is that it's not likely the only example of this, nor is it likely limited to the fictional Trek history.

@acmenipponair

8 ай бұрын

@@prophetzarquon1922 The interesting part is, that in the TOS timeline Dayström only tested the first AI driven computer in 2267 on the Enterprise, while in Discovery they had to fight against an omnipresent AI already in 2259.

@williamquinlan6153

Ай бұрын

​@@acmenipponairwhich is another example of slipshod writing when someone can make up what they want. TOS being the source material is the easiest history to keep up with.

The game Star Trek Online has the actor who played Daniels in Enterprise, also voices the character Daniels in the game. Archer is also mentioned by Daniels in the game.

Khan Noonien Singh was born in the 20st century.

With all the time travel in Star Trek there are dozens of times lines if not more. Every episode mIght takes place in a slughtly diffrent time line due to some off screen time travel somewhere in the galaxy.

That was amazing. I hope you will keep making those as long as you can. Thanks to you I keep watching Star Trek. I need to finish DS9 and Voyager and I will be up to date with the current shows. I joined to the community pretty recently thanks to J.J. Abrams movies so it looks like it took me over a decade to watch every Star Trek show's episode :D

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

Don't feel bad. I've never been a huge fan of Doctor Who, so my episode-by-episode viewing hasn't caught up with the new series (plural) of that yet, either. ;D

Resetting the date for The Eugenics War seems necessary, in a way that retconning The Gorn does not. TOS and SNW can't operate in the same timeline/universe, since it's clear The Federation, and those crew members that also served under Pike, including Spock, Uhura, M'Benga, Chapel and Scotty all have extensive knowledge of The Gorn, yet they are unknown to Kirk in "Arena". Kirk's detailed log explains his first impressions of his Gorn opponent, which would seem silly considering Spock and Scotty's firsthand knowledge from five years prior. Even Kirk's brother has been captured by The Gorn, and it seems like a story he would tell James. Now, Star Trek: SNW can fix all this with a temporal event that resets things to TOS canon, just like we saw several times on Voyager.

Also, don't read Eugenics Wars. Khan was much more menacing before it was revealed how ineffective he was in the past.

OrangeRiver means quality. Thank you for your great videos!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

I've always liked the idea that the temporal wars changed a whole lot of stuff, not only does it free up what a prequel series can do, but it puts more weight on the temporal war, because not everything could simply be reset, the timeline was damaged, links in nicely to the time travel ban in discovery.

@dixievfd55

8 ай бұрын

Annorax was responsible for some of that. In trying to bring back the Krenim Imperium he created a spaghetti bowl of timelines that only got worse with every change he made. Eliminating his ship from the time stream didn't fix everything.

@andrewmalinowski6673

7 ай бұрын

@@dixievfd55 I'd rather go with the idea that every episode in "Voyager" was a reset because the writers didn't want to show a messed-up Voyager because it was all subtle changes by Annorax's temporal weapons ship, but using it to explain everything that changed in Trek seems a bit of a stretch. The bigger question would be; did the Temporal Cold War start because of the Krenim's research into chroniton weaponry or because different factions (and races) wanted to preserve their own "good" timelines and lead to issues with other races?

@andrewmalinowski6673

7 ай бұрын

It's likely that since Enterprise S4 showed a "post correction" timeline following "Storm Front" that everything afterwards leads off from that is within a different timeline to TOS, but Kelvin and Discovery are within their own distinct timelines

So, while primarily being a "Trekker" (* footnote below), I usually skipped posts like this. However, this is a surprising "rare gem", a well thought-out, relevant & delivered essay / video. Strong Work!!! (Though still working out what a Canon is) (* hooked in at end of '88 in Med School, DVDr'd each thru residency '93, in mid-'88, Every ST-TNG episodes & related movies, then a few of others)

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

The dates don't matter. The show takes place in an imagined future.

@tiffanysmith4153

8 ай бұрын

^this.

Loving these longer videos and the added humorous moments 😅 Thanks so much for your hard work 👍

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

There have been so much time travel in Trek even before the Temporal Cold War that things have probably already changed a bunch of times even before Enterprise. Look at "Yesterday's Enterprise" for example. Is the timeline the same at the end of the episode as before the episode? Has Tasha Yar always gone back to the past or did it just happen after that episode? Because if it's not a predestination paradox then the alternate timeline Tasha changed the main timeline. Sela knew that Tasha was sent by Picard so the Romulans found out that she was from the future. They would have made changes based on information she had. Maybe the Romulans made Shinzon because they learned that Picard would become an important captain from Tasha.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Honestly, that's a really good point about Yesterday's Enterprise. I've thought about that before.

@acmenipponair

8 ай бұрын

Also: We don't see Sela plotting stuff before Yesterday's Enterprise. So it's most likely, that the timeline got changed. It's by the way not really the fault of Tasha Yar - she thought that she would have died anyway, it was most unlikely that some of the Enterprise C crew would survive. By the way, interestingly Tasha Yar couldn't have told them about the Borg. Because most likely the Enterprise in the alternative timeline was never send to the Borg Cube by Q - and the fact, that Picard didn't even expected Q to have tampered with the timeline means that the Enterprise most likely never met Q in that universe.

This video was quite fun to watch, with you pondering over the angst and anger of comments, to having a degree, up through analyzing the time line from a fictional book.. I enjoy your videos for your fairly in-depth research. Bravo.. Some years ago, I was one of those who would attend Star Trek Conventions. I don't even recall hearing of Comicon until my own reboot in life, where I am now. It was at these Star Trek Conventions that friends and I attended a breakout session with script writers Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore & script coordinator Lolita Fatjo. In this session they asked trivia questions on a broad subject matter, not always to do with Star Trek, but when it got down to writing to the subject of Star Trek, their message was clear. "We are writing (actually making quote finger motions) "Science Fiction". ". I recall them speaking of the "Star Trek Bible" which I can assume was what we all like to call Canon, but didn't stop a writer from dancing or deviating, as long as it was either fixed, or didn't break anything.. That memory is fuzzy at this point.. With recent full length motion pictures across the Spider Man franchise now bringing in either multiple universes or as in one movie, all of the actors who played the character through multi-verse crossings, opens up the idea that in "fiction" you can write some interesting stories. Thank you again for engaging your viewers with entertaining ideas and analysis.. I am always looking forward to seeing what happens next. Sister Ida @}--

There are only two timelines: "Prime" and "Kelvin." All the time travel in all the TV shows do not create alternate timelines -they change the Prime timeline. The only reason the Kelvin Timeline happened and did not simply change the Prime Timeline is because of the Red Matter. Red Matter allowed time travel to create an alternate timeline. That's it. History has simply been changed with all the temporal cold war, Romulan interference, and other time travel shenanigans that happen in the TV shows. Boom.

Thanks for this! I've been a Star Trek fan since I watched the original show as a kid in the late 60's. I have never had and will never have a problem with changes to timelines. Canon is just a thing that can act as a guide, but it can also limit exploration. I'm a Star Wars fan too (17 when it came out), and I feel the same about that franchise. A rigid, dogmatic view of canon can inhibit growth and new ideas. I'm all for new stories in the series I grew to love.

@beepboop204

8 ай бұрын

especially post psychward visit, i try to just enjoy some stuff without overthinking it. overthinking things can be fun too, dont get me wrong, but i dont get how some people get so angry and worked up by fiction, ya know?

@gearandalthefirst7027

8 ай бұрын

@AgentGodzillaRP The problem with that is that the future eventually becomes the past (which is the case for the Eugenics Wars in the first place, I can't imagine Roddenberry or the other writes ever expected the need to write themselves out of that "failed prediction," 30 years later)

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

I agree, @geraldh3932, & I have one word for all the haters of "NuTrek": 🍄

@Nulli_Di

8 ай бұрын

@@gearandalthefirst7027 Time paradoxes always cause problems for writing continuations of a series. It is sometimes best to just retcon the whole thing or ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Marvel Comics is probably the poster child for time travel paradoxes, time line confusion, retcons and also some really genius solutions which often involve multiverses infinite timelines (and provide interesting villains like Kang/He Who Remains/Rama-tut/Immortus, etc.)

Real history is not always so cut and dry either. Often it is consensus, but there will always be conflicting accounts (pov, politics, etc.) Many thanks for this insightful video!!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

This could drive us crazy. I just want them to stick with cannon as much as possible. Tired of all this diffirent timeline crap.Just want good Star Trek, good stories.

Time travel: 1. Minor changes - the Mandela effect 2. Medium changes - adding or removal of events 3. Major changes - rewriting of entire sections of history 4. Drastic changes - forking of timelines (creation of a new reality)

Ever since the TNG episode "Parallels" this has been the obvious answer to any question about continuity between different Star Trek media. They are all in the same multiverse, but any specific episode, even within a series, can be technically in it's own timeline. A lot of people don't like that answer but it is the only correct one based upon what canon we do know.

I like the idea that each series is set in an alternate timeline (some very slightly alternate). It solves a tremendous amount of issues with canon and practically eliminates the argument of "Hey! That's not canon!" Well, that's not a problem. Why? Because it doesn't have to adhere to cannon. A statement like that should only be applied within a specific series itself (unless, of course, there's an explanation for it within the series). Let's all move on.

@Knightfall182

8 ай бұрын

Trials and Tribble-lations counters that.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

@Knightfall182 Eh, "Trials and Tribble-ations" strikes me as one of those instances where they subtly changed the past by traveling back to it. Much like "Past Tense."

@Knightfall182

8 ай бұрын

The point was that DS9 takes place in the same reality as TOS, because they literally travelled into a TOS episode@@OrangeRiver

@MatthewCaunsfield

8 ай бұрын

@@Knightfall182 Not EXACTLY the same - there are new sound effects on the Bridge and sections of the corridor are of a different design when compared to the original footage. So it could be a close parallel universe, but not necessarily the same one as TOS

@Knightfall182

8 ай бұрын

@@MatthewCaunsfield Or more simply the bridge and corridors have multiple different sound effects.

The problem with Star Trek continuity is that it's a TV show first. Which means entertainment. The Eugenics War/WW3 is 30-50 years from whenever the viewer is watching it. Close, but still a ways off.

18:10 and in 2001 it was believed that VentureStar was going to replace the shuttle. It went from a "this is a done deal" to "this will never fly" really fast.

If Only Chapel n Spock ended up Together..

It's simple. TOS is set in the original 1985. Everything after, or at least everything since Enterprise is set in the 1985 created when Marty went back to 1955 and taught his dad confidence. The 2009 movie is the 1985 where Biff gave his younger self the sports almanac.

hehe, since Trek has decided that alternate timelines are the result of temporal interactions, it really kinda follows that all of Star Trek can exist in anyone of several timelines.

I've always imagined that the writers do whatever the hell they want, and then it's us idiots who are stupid enough to try and fit it all together

The writers could stop doing time travel episodes or send them back in time to a point where they can make small changes but not during an major fixed event

I’m really liking strange new worlds. If anything they are just cleaning up the continuity, which I mean after 57 years it could use some cleaning, specially with the new version of the gorn which is just spectacular

@prophetzarquon1922

8 ай бұрын

💯 Exactly this

@singularrookhart7501

8 ай бұрын

While the Gorn don't sit well with me*, I agree with the overall spirit of your comment. * My issue is philosophical, not canonical. "Sometimes a monster is just a monster" is just so anti-Star Trek. I am choosing to have faith that we are actually getting a "Devil in the Dark" type story in a much bigger and longer form. Fingers crossed.

@FevnorTheWolf

8 ай бұрын

@@singularrookhart7501I kinda think thats what they might be going for in some form. In the SNW S2 Finale, there were a few points where we were starting to see more than Gorn Xenomorphs and how it may of instilled some questions into the crew. the scene with the gorn in the shuttle comes to mind. it didnt mindlessly kill them. there was a standoff, stare down and then it left. then the Gorn Adult on the wreckage in suit. showing more tech and stuff then just Murdering Eating and Mating Creatures. for me at least, the Gorn, while shown of very horror est, had that level of Unknown and by the end, while still unknown there was a hint of, just maybe in the future their might be a way they can work things out with them.

Discovery and Strange new worlds takes place in the JJ Abrams universe. 2009 was the start of the reboot. CBS was too scared to call it what it IS which is a REBOOT. Not some different timeline crap. Discovery and Strange new worlds are a continuation of this REBOOT.

My head canon was always that First Contact changed things massively due to the Borg tech being left behind - even if it wasn’t used, it was still a big deal. And this led to ENT and Disc/SNW looking more advanced, with the ripple effect diminishing by TOS movie era

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

First Contact is referred to by Seven of Nine a time loop, which I guess does serve as more connective tissue between TNG, Voyager, and Enterprise...my head hurts...

@shadesofslay

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver Yep it's a bit mind bending. It sort of turns Star Trek into a Marvel-esque multiverse though, which is cool. Imagine a multi-Kirk movie, with Shatner while he's still around, the new fella and Chris Pine...

I always thought that canon and continuity held up pretty well if you assume each episode is a separate timeline/universe. There are some intra-episode faux pas, but it works pretty well if you have a bad memory and can't remember last week's episode.

At the same time some things are modified , I do see a great reverence for all that came before. Jonathan Frakes working on this 2nd season is something he had always had a small hand in earlier episodes of TNG . I think each cast member(who wanted to) got to direct an episode or two of TNG. This evolution of Frakes as a consultant or what ever the position is, is definitely a good steward to guard most of the crucial details. He can help guide other decisions in the Trek world but ultimately studios do have a say. Pelia or Ortegas are my least favorite character arcs so far. When the actress playing Pelia speaks, it is slightly grating to me rather than the comforting tones of Guinan or wisdom and temperament of Hemmer. She plays an old engineer alright. Ortegas is "important" as the pilot, the same way the torpedo tubes working is, but not much else there to work with . I know the real life actress there also had some hardships during filming . Seeing all the adventures before Pike hands off the Enterprise is where we are and the point of the series. Keeping most parts of canon respected and intact can be done while still seeing things we haven't before and having meaningful adventures. Then we just move on to another part of the timeline. Seeing actual emotional conflict disrespects Roddenberry's Trek vision but its closer to our current reality where people do still argue and fight over the small stuff. The bigger conflicts and solutions, we know what we want to move toward. Less restrictive , but also less theming during each episode. Leading to "New Trek" , its 80 % of the pieces of "Old Trek" with new spices. Not everyone appreciates the 20% sensations to the pallet.

@davidhamilton6612

8 ай бұрын

I agree that both the Pelia and Ortegas characters do need to be fleshed out more, and I believe that will happen in either the 3rd or 4th season. My issue with Carol Kain's Pelia character is that the accent she uses is pretty much the same that she used as Simka Dahblitz-Gravas in Taxi, the character of the Ghost Of Christmas Present in Scrooged, and Granny in Addams Family Values. I'd even go as far as to say most of her characters have a very similar accent.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

So, my two cents about emotional conflict violating Roddenberry's vision. 1) That was more so a 24th century "rule," as there was plenty of interpersonal banter in TOS that no one batted an eye at. Humans in the 23rd century are still enlightened compared to today, but they're rougher around the edges than their 24th century counterparts. 2) When the TNG writers started to do away with some of Roddenberry's "rules," the quality of writing on that show improved dramatically IMO lol

@tobiwonkanogy2975

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiverthoughtful observations

@tobarjaime

8 ай бұрын

Pelia was a downgrade from Hemmer, TBH. Loved Hemmer in the something-Kingdom and hoped to get more of him….

@Emanon...

8 ай бұрын

Roddenberry would have run ST to the ground if everything had to follow his "vision". People need to let it go and allow them to adapt it and reinterpret it to a modern audience and world. Yes, it'll be poor sometimes as we've seen, but at least it won't be a regurgitation of TOS.

I love this video and the timeline breakdown at the end. Two comments or questions: (1) how might we work in TAS into ghis discussion? And (2) given your breakdown, from Star Trek's perspective could *our* timeline be an alternative timeline? 😉

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Great questions! TAS is technically "canon," but to be perfectly honest, I'm not comfortable reconciling certain aspects of it with the rest of the shows. I think at best it's a whimsical interpretation of events that might have occurred during Kirk's five-year mission. As for your second question, absolutely XD

The TOS timeline made sense in the reality of the 1960s into the 70s when there was a space race. During Mercury, Apollo, Skylab, and the moon missions it was easy then to imagine we were going on to a moon base, etc. The idea that 50 years later we would only have a bigger, better Skylab was inconceivable.

@Steven_Edwards

8 ай бұрын

Apollo was so far ahead of it's time that we had to catch up. We had no business going to the Moon when we did. I am not complaining, it kicked off the semiconductor revolution and Silicon Valley, but it was selectively pulling forward human advancement. Take a look at the videos where the guys rebuild old Apollo communication hardware and compare what was done vs what can be done with a few cell phones and access points and a big enough antenna.

@acmenipponair

8 ай бұрын

It was even part of the original plan/timeline of NASA. But as Rick correctly said, because the Vietnam war was eating up more and more money, the space program was heavily cut back when Nixon came into office. Not because Nixon had something against space, but the congress, DEM dominated, didn't wanted to give him the funding anymore for the program.

@acmenipponair

8 ай бұрын

@@Steven_Edwards Also the priorities of NASA changed. When the race was over, they focussed much more on low risk missions. Especially as they became much more a scientific operation, not anymore a military operation. The military didn't needed NASA anymore - the rockets were invented that could bring nukes to all places of the earth, so NASA focussed on pushing satellites into orbit and probes into space. And when you focus on that, you need RELIABLE rockets,as your contractors will not like it when their satellite or probe explodes during the start, also not so big rockets, as you need much less propellant to get into lower or middle orbit. Also the space shuttle, that was at the beginning of the 1970s meant as a vehicle that could bring us to the moon and mars was cut back to a low orbit lifter. Also: the pilots changed. The Pilots of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were soldiers! Or you can say: human cannon powder. Test pilots even, where only half of them could expect to survive their service time. The Space Program was for them therefore MORE SAVE than their normal job, as they would only have 2-3 hot missions into orbit or the moon and not 20-30 flights per year in airplanes that were more death traps than flying objects. (Even the finalized Starfighter was called a "widow maker", we better don't talk about the prototypes.) But in the 1970s the personnel changed to scientists that also got a training in how to fly a space shuttle. Civilians. People that haven't signed up for missions where they could die all the time. Where the insurances most likely wouldn't even allow that risk they had with Apollo, while the death of a military personnel is covered by the Army, Navy or Air Force, with payments for the families etc. Don't forget, they later said, that they were LUCKY, that they had only 3 deaths and they were on the ground during the space race. When they started Apollo 8, they had a 50:50 chance of all engines starting correctly and lifting the capsule into space and all the navigation they had to do etc. That's also the problem Musk and Co. have to face: Also they cannot risk too much anymore. Whoever Musk puts into the Starship, wants to live and not die because the rocket makes boom again. That's why Space X tests their rockets so much, until the number of explosions go down to 0. One exploding starship with people on board and Space X is done. We are not in the pioneer times anymore, where people want to risk their lives for a trip to Mars.

Great video! I don't understand the deep upset people feel regarding "breaking" canon. As you say, it's all about the characters and stories being told. A mixture of interpretation means you get to pick and choose your favourites! 😁

@neodigremo

8 ай бұрын

I cannot speak for everyone, but for some of us (myself being one case) the fictional universe itself becomes as important as the characters and the stories. We find great interest in putting the puzzle pieces together, seeing how all the events tie into each other and build on things from previous iterations. In short for those of us who are really into the worldbuilding side of a fictional universe changing canon can be similar to if your favourite character just started acting completely differently at a certain point, or lacked consistency at all.

@bananahbabe2998

8 ай бұрын

@@neodigremo Oh i completely understand that! I'm very invested in the lore of trek and of course I prefer when everything lines up perfectly but I also have the critical thinking capacity to see that with a universe this expansive, in a franchise that's been running for so long, it just isn't feasible to expect no mistakes, retcons or plotholes. As I say, I think the responsibility rest on the viewer and their imagination to fill in the blanks, rather than on the storyteller to shoehorn their story into strict canon rules.

@neodigremo

8 ай бұрын

@@bananahbabe2998 Plot holes will of course happen, as well as mistakes. I am very much not a fan of retcons as.... easiest way I can say is that investment in NEW stories in the setting can be harder for me if the canon established in the setting previously is deliberately ignored or changed. IT's the same reason I dropped out of comics. Massive cosmic retcons looming to render the story I am reading non-canon one day saps my investment. It's similar to struggling to get the emotion to care about a character relationship when we know they are going to break up soon. It is always on a scale of course. A characters birthday being changed is inconsequential usually but then again there is no NEED to get it wrong so it irritates me a little. Changes due to new special effects and what not.... well it is not significant to the story or canon of events so whatever. I may not like the new look (such as the new changeling morph effects from Picard) but that is a separate thing. Personally I think a storyteller who enters a franchise owes it to the audience to get things as accurate as possible. They will miss some things of course. Throwaway lines from ages past will be forgotten until a nitpicky nerd like me comes along to question it. But to me if we can ignore the canon of the past, or worse handwave it away with a retcon, then it is disrespectful to the franchise and the story itself.

I kind of like the idea of it being in a new timeline personally and I am kind of glad I'm not the only person that thought strange new worlds was in its own timeline

Great stuff. Really enjoyed this. Thanks for your efforts.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

"Park the car in Harvard Yard" is best experienced in original Klingon.

Excellent discussion on the alternate timelines. I don’t know how you got through the sheer complexity of the different timelines as well as trying to explain and tie them all together in a way we could understand them in a consistent manner. I do believe that you may be right in the fact that each show may be set in its own alternate timeline due to the Temporal Cold War. That fact would at least reconcile all the different historical dates that seem to be at odds with each other on different shows.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you! I worried so much that some people wouldn't be able to follow, and certainly that's been the case, but I'm glad plenty more people enjoyed the video! I blame the writers smh

I made the mistake of reading the comments again

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

I make that mistake several times a week

Ok now I want stories about the Temporal War, like how Romulans caused events to try and slow down Humanity's advancement and how the Federation's trying to counter or stop them.

Here’s how I make sense of this. The Romulans travels back to around the 80s or 90s, her interference delays the creation of Khan to what we see in the SNW episode, this causes a not yet permanent temporal shift, the Temporal Agent tries to stop her but was wounded, he jumped forward to the present of the episode and by La’ahn holding his device she survives the temporal shift as the timeline changes to the one with Kirk as Captain of the United Earth ship Enterprise. They activate the time device and jump back to the past of Kirk’s timeline, they go on their adventure, Kirk dies, and the Romulan is stopped and dies. Because of this the timeline change is erased once La’ahn jumps back to the present. Thus the timeline is restored with the Eugenics Wars occurring in the 90s still. There, issue fixed. Most Star Trek time travel episodes are often to temporary timelines that get erased, timelines cross over, minor enough events not to matter, or you just nod abd accept it as likely an oversight. We know multiple timelines exist. I think the Temporal Cold War wasn’t about “preserving history” as Daniels says to Archer, rather it’s about keeping more chaotic temporal factions from just doing whatever they want with time travel, cause you know even if they fix what they want to, it might not just stop with one thing, these factions might just keep trying to change too much. We see the effect of this in YOY Year Of Hell when Annorax miscalculated he screwed things up worse by erasing something important from history.

I just assume that the Star Trek timeline is like a spring that can be bent and compressed, it'll eventually correct itself back to its original shape. If the spring breaks you could weld the pieces back together. Depending on the welding job it'll look different but ultimately is the same spring. You could also shave metal along the spring to get alternate timelines like the Kelvinverse. You know just timely wimiley stuff. All of the canon Star Trek events happen eventually but may look different with temporal incursions.

@kingrainbow5432

8 ай бұрын

It's timey wimey

@Tao_Tology

8 ай бұрын

​@@kingrainbow5432I _think_ you'll find it's, first and foremost, wibbly wobbly

@collinistyping

8 ай бұрын

I do like this idea, and its what I conform to as well. The book series Star Trek: department of temporal investigations strikes a nice balance between both the theory of different quantum realities and the principles in time travel as we've come to know them in various tv shows. Namely, while there are branching universes, any timeline deviation that is too similar to the timeline it deviated from will converge with that timeline and overwrite all of its information. Meaning presumably that every time voyager crewmembers changed the past, the changed timeline did indeed overwrite and replace the original timeline. The same principles goes for the effects of the temporal cold war.

@kingrainbow5432

8 ай бұрын

@@Tao_Tology you're taking me back to Wholockianism

@Tao_Tology

8 ай бұрын

@@kingrainbow5432 The finest of isms.

I think these timeline changing theories are super interesting and therefore the Trek should do more of them

Still can't get over they turned Khan from a menacing Asian warlord to an old lady with Rod Stewart's hair in Wrath of Khan.

I always appreciate your research and point of view. Thanks Tyler.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Thank you for the video, it was a wonderful discussion of timelines, some I had not even considered, like the TOS and a TNG separate timelines, but you presented now opens my mind to consider such separations. I also loved the trip down memory lane as I remember when the Chronicle came out and getting it. I had forgotten so much of what was in that book, it was nice to remember. Thank you for that and the whole timelines discussion.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

Fandoms are rabid😂 Seems like the answer to canon should be as simple as... There's been a lot of time travel. 😂😂😂😂

I didn't realize until just now that this episode is a twist on The City on the Edge of Forever, where Bones keeps a woman from dying and changes history so Spock and Kirk must travel back and see that she dies. This episode has Romulans going back to kill Khan Noonien-Singh and La'an and alternate Kirk going back to save him.

I never understood how Star Trek could be said to present an optimistic picture of the future when that future included a World War III. Optimism would have been if such a war had been averted.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

The idea is that we "needed" an event like that to open our eyes and force us to manifest a more enlightened future. There is some precedent for this, as World War II accelerated decolonization and the establishment of robust human rights laws. That said, it certainly would be preferable if we didn't have a nuclear conflict that wiped out 30% of humanity lol. We just need a shift in thinking in our politics, for one thing.

@ers586

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver I have to agree with you. It seems that every step forward was preceded by a catastrophe. It took the Civil War to end American slavery. It took the Great Depression to bring about the birth of the social welfare state (Social Security, the minimum wage) in the US. And I wonder whether the advances in LGBTQ rights would have occurred without the spread of AIDS which compelled many people--private and well known--to come out and advocate for their rights. So perhaps optimism is hoping for the worst to bring about the best.

"what is important is that Star Trek continues to tell good, compelling strories" Haven't had those since the end of Enterprise. I tried to give every new trek a chance, but all of it, even Strange New Worlds and Picard season 3, is really really bad to me

Dude… This is really, really well done. To think you walked through the Spaceflight Chronology! That was my canon during the 80’s. I can’t imagine the research to write this!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thank you Mark!!

I like this video. One change in a future video. Please keep in mind that first contact was of course told to us in full in the episode 'Carbon Creek'. Enterprise season 2 episode 1, if memory serves.

@Tyler, you mention that TNG episode "The Naked Now" states that the USSR is around after the 90s. I just watched it and didn't see/hear it. Do you have a timestamp for it? Or should I just chalk it up to an alteration of the timeline?

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

The ship SS Tsiolkovsky was launched from the USSR according to its dedication plaque (which I'm sure was not visible in the episode, this is from Memory Alpha)

@Loxly1888

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver Ah, thanks. I'll take a closer look at the scenes that the plaque is visible. See what I can see.

Great video thanks again Tyler respect 🙏 🫡 I think as you said strange new worlds is a breath of fresh air 😀 I like the fact that the writers are willing to push the boat out , I love the show the cast are brilliant 👏 😀 keep up the great content Tyler respect 🙏 🫡

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Jamie!

@jamieoconnor1916

8 ай бұрын

@OrangeRiver you are very welcome Tyler 🙏 thank you for your message 😊

Engagement comment 😊

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

We take those!

@tomlandy

8 ай бұрын

@@OrangeRiver also a great video! I love timeline shenanigans! 😘

On an unrelated note I think that Q had a hand in subspace Rhapsody. You can't tell me that that wouldn't be right up his alley😂

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Lmfao

@DavidCoxDallas

8 ай бұрын

like Pike asking why they always materialize in an alley when his party beams down to Kiley 279?

Good video - can I ask what is your screensaver - love it!

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

It's a background by AA VFX! kzread.info/dash/bejne/oIeiwaWdftuwdto.html

Strange New Worlds is absolute garbage and shouldn't even have existed. As a Star Trek fan, I see it as non canon just as much as I see Discovery and Picard the same way. Go watch Star Trek Continues, that show is more faithful than what Kurtzman is making.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Ah yes, Strange New Worlds, the show that was actually willed into existence by the fanbase that wanted a Pike series

If you like this show, you aren't a Star Trek fan. It's a garbage SJW, YA version of Star Trek.

@mongke1000

8 ай бұрын

Good for him. ST "fans" are right there with the Taliban.

@OrangeRiver

8 ай бұрын

Imagine still using the term SJW in 2023

@incogni-bro8276

8 ай бұрын

I’ve loved ALL the Trek shows since TOS, so technically I’m a true Trek fan…

The retcon of the Eugenics Wars happening in the 90s started as far back as Voyager when they traveled back in time and saw neither hide nor hair of a global war. I'm very glad they made this addendum to the temporal mechanics of Star Trek. The idea that the prime timeline remains the prime timeline but that certain events have been shifted around by time travel incursions is a very clean way to deal with the discrepancies of the Eugenics Wars and when they happened. It brings to mind two different pieces of media - one being Stephen King's "11 22 63", in which the universe fights back against attempts to change history by making random chance work against you when you are actively trying to change the past, e.g. you're driving to do whatever you're going to do and a tree falls in the road, then your car breaks down, etc. They say in that book "the past is obdurate," meaning stubborn. It also brings to mind the fluid continuities of comics like Marvel and DC. Marvel's Earth 616 is the main Earth and always has been. The 616 Peter Parker is the same 616 Peter Parker he's always been - but when he premiered in the 60s, events in his life happened in the 50s. Now, 60 years later, the character has only aged about a decade and his life events no longer happened in the 50s and 60s, even though it's still the main timeline. The guy at Ex Astris Scientia has long held that the 90s were clearly too early for the DY-100 and 500 style ships and that they must have actually existed later in the lead-up to WW3 in the 2050s. The fact that WW3 tore the civilized world apart is a good enough reason to excuse spotty records from that period.

Chernobyl, Bhopal, etc. are discussed in the Eugenics wars series, "The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh" by Greg Cox. These excellent novels tie the events of Kahn and Gary Seven together and tell the history.

Enterprise exists in a timeline that Star Trek exists as a television show (the Space Shuttle Enterprise which is named after the ST:TOS Enterprise appears). So Enterprise is closer to real life time than any other show..

Honestly, I just see all series of Star Trek set in a different reality than ours. It makes explaining real world inventions or events so much easier. "Oh, it's just set in a different timeline and they never invented cellphones." Instead of, "Well, you see, I know we have computers in our phones now, but in our show they still fil la room because..." Also explains why every show that's set more in the past, looks better than the ones that are set more in the future; deferent timeline.

I liked... now commented.... I've been subscribed for a while - with notifications.... and now I've shared with some other Trek maniacs. Well done!

Shows that should definitely be considered in the Prime time line are TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Enterprise, Discovery, and Strange New Worlds are in an alternate time line created in the events of the First Contact movie when the Enterprise E destroys the Borg in the past. As well, the first 6 movies from the TOS original crew should be Prime as well as the Generations movie. But whether or not if the Enterprise E returns to it's own timeline and the end of First Contact, or into an alternate time line is debatable.