From the comments, a theme already surfacing: I'm not clear how all of this will work in game, and I'm not the only one... I would love to see more clear and open communication, so at least everybody knows what to expect! For those commenting that "they've already been clear about this", please cite an official source. Lots of people are saying how it's going to be, and disagreeing with each other (that in itself is good reason, I think, for more clarity). I've included below some of the official sources I've seen on the matter - happy to add more if people find some to signpost to me! I should also add, I still love this game, for what it is and could be in future. A little healthy criticism doesn't detract from that! Nov 2012: robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12820-Insurance-FAQ-And-Update Apr 2013: robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12968-Customer-Service-Update May 2013: robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12986-Lifetime-Insurance-Clarification Insurance Q&A - support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000093467-Ship-Insurance-FAQs

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

if your not sure how it works.. how about FINDING OIUT HOW IT WORKS before making a video about it and muddying he waters with your conjecture? your fearmongering int eh guise of "criticism" this isn't criticism. this is you making shit up and then just saying "i don't actually know.. so clearly no one knows"

@charliemcawesome5012

6 ай бұрын

I believe this is a cry wolf moment. I saw it explained a while ago. When your insurance runs out, you pay for insurance in game, and if you have none you pay a “premium” to bring it back. If you lost it in game and that happened you’d just exchange it for cash and buy another.

@marqushio2752

6 ай бұрын

CiG has stated in the past, thatOnce the game goes Beta or Live, ships may no longer be meltable ​@charliemcawesome5012

@marqushio2752

6 ай бұрын

I have backed and followed SC for a long time. This is my best understanding: In-game UEC (not a UEC) purchased ships may be lost if not insured. Real money purchased ships will have a period of insurance included. When that period expires, if you lose your ship, there is a policy lapsed fee when you file a claim (payable in UEC) that is much higher than the in-game cost if insurance, if you had purchased beforehand. LTI ships will have a policy that does not expire. There may still be expedite costs. There is also the possibility of entering deep Vanduul space which is uninsurable. In game purchassed ships are not covered here, and real money ships will have a very long recovery period due to the 'retreival and restoration' costs of the ship being lost so far out. This is based on lots of various videos and discussions I have seen over the years. It seems pretty clear, and fair, but of course it may not be accurate.

@BlakedaBull

6 ай бұрын

To critique is to think : WE MUST NEVER THINK. Ironically thanks farrister for being thoughtful.

My feeling is if it doesn’t have at least 10 year insurance, I may as well just buy it in game rather than pay cash.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

In game purchase is often a sensible choice

@ViniciusConsorte

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister yeah, now the money come fast and easy ingame, wait till a Connie cost 100mil ingame and you spend some weeks to get it.

@MKultrapdx

6 ай бұрын

They will make them very expensive in game, you are correct. They will also lower the payouts. Currently they use cheap prices and high value missions as a way to push testers to use them more. This is so they get enough data before moving on to the next thing that needs the most attention. ​@ViniciusConsorte

@XquizitRush

6 ай бұрын

I'm 63 years old so 10 year insurance is lifetime insurance.

@aipilot6795

6 ай бұрын

@@XquizitRush don’t talk like that, you could still have 40 good years ahead of you!

Just imagine a message in your MobiGlas "We've been trying to reach you regarding your ship's extended warranty!"

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

haha

Removing a ship from a players inventory is a consumer lawsuit waiting to happen ...

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

If that's even what happens!

@Warhammered

6 ай бұрын

Farrister got that part wrong. They clarified to say that the ships is unavailable until you pay the full insurance for it. The Real Life paid ship is NEVER gone for good, without insurance. it's just unflyable, until you use in-game currency to insure it. No one at CIG was that stupid to get into legal issues by removing a paid ship just because insurance is gone.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

@@Warhammered that's good if true, do you have a link to the article?

@desertbum8

6 ай бұрын

Making a real-world purchase unplayable until you pay a fee in game is pushing the boundaries on being legal or not. I don't see that ending well either.@@Warhammered

@latinblaze3027

6 ай бұрын

​@@Farristerthey legit say it in thier owm TOS, anything pledged will not be taken from an accounts inventory

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point CIG start selling LTI on the website for real money to expend your curent insurance.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

To some extent I think that's kinda what the extending of attached insurance has encouraged

@MoragTong_

6 ай бұрын

I am 100% ok with that. Because I get to choose to spend the money or not. These are all issues for cry babies.

@MartinOg395

6 ай бұрын

I never said i was not ok with it.@@MoragTong_

One of the big reasons I limit my SC purchases is because I don’t really know how this is going to play out long-term. I’m sure it’ll work out ok… but the fact that they still sell LTI makes me wonder.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

A lot of unknowns, in so many elements!

@onslaught147

6 ай бұрын

It's not going to work, it's a money pit, stop throwing away your money!

@cb_the_kirb

6 ай бұрын

thanks mom

When I played Eve Online way back, some of the major battles amounted to a combined 100k in real money that players lost on ship destruction.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

EVE is just on a scale of its own lol

@festersmith8352

6 ай бұрын

Holy crap! And they call SC a scam with a lack of logic. I'm not saying EVE is a scam. If you played knowing what was possible and still did it, there seems to be no hidden agenda from the developer. I'm just not understanding the scam community when that exists in EVE. But not a word from them on that game. Irony! Don't even get me started where ED is at. But its from the ED community where I received the most insults for believing in SC. Hypocrisy!

@Tiyrant

6 ай бұрын

@festersmith8352 The main difference with Eve though is there is a layer of abstraction. You can't 'directly' purchase ships with real money. Sure, you can buy a PLEX with real money, flip it, and then use the credits to get the ship (only to then theoretically loose it). However, for some reason that additional layer is deemed 'acceptable' by the zeitgeist, whereas SCs more 'direct' approach isn't. If I had to guess, if CIG decides to keep insurance as is; at some point in the future they'll offer a subscription tier where one of the perks is full coverage equivalent to the current LTI level for all ships in your hangar, while you're subscribed.

@XquizitRush

6 ай бұрын

True that one had to buy the PLEX and convert it to isk which is what many did do, including myself at times, but in EVE there is no insurance and a real painful risk of losing your hard earned ship. Roberts said long ago that SC would not be subscription based and he has big plans to sell advertisement space in SC but like everything else in SC plans can and do change over time. Whatever. I'm willing to pay fair price for my entertainment which I'm sure will still be much cheaper than many other big boy hobbies.@@Tiyrant

@wafflesinsanity

6 ай бұрын

​@@Tiyrantif thats the case, than CIG also has a layer in its very thorough TOS when purchasing a pledge. The one most people ignore. The TOS states repeatedly "you do not purchase anything, you make a pledge towards the development of the game..." When you purchase a Polaris pledge for 750USD its not a direct purchase of the Polaris. Which is considered a "virtual goods" situation which then places insurance and ships into the same window as the PLEX subscription, as subscriptions are also a "virtual good" and maintain those same protections.

I'm glad somebody is asking these questions again. This is all stuff that has bothered me since I started playing. We need more up to date details and preferably some concrete answers on where they plan to go with all this.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Would love some more up to date official clarity about it, for sure!

@dannic8987

6 ай бұрын

Even the stuff like weapons/armor that has been paid with money. Will there be a claim back terminal that will charge to retrieve them back or will we just get 1 set then if lost we have the ability to craft them again... who knows. Shouldn't take this long considering how much they're willing to sell this stuff. They should have stopped at ships.

@PvtDamion

6 ай бұрын

@@dannic8987 Didn't CIG say something about a terminal in your persistent hangar where you'll be able to claim items and armor that are part of your "hangar"?

@cowboy6524

6 ай бұрын

I asked this same question like 2 months ago on Reddit and got a fuck ton of down votes smh fuckin reddit

@PvtDamion

6 ай бұрын

@@cowboy6524 Reddit can be the worst of places, its a place where people can be genuinely helpful or insanely hostile. I only read, never write there and only fairly recently started commenting on KZread

As far as I recall, the last time they addressed this, one of the few details they knew for certain is that you will NEVER permanently lose a ship purchased with real money, regardless of your insurance length being 3 months or LTI. You might have a long reclaim timer, but you'll never lose it.

@dank4dayz

6 ай бұрын

You're right you just have a longer timer to respawn your ship. You never lose it permanently. Just like if you buy armor and someone takes it. You'll get it back on the next wipe.

@asog88

6 ай бұрын

When did they speak about this? There was the unofficial statement that was taken down shorty after being posted. And CIG’s website still states i q people can be without a ship

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

That sounds good! Do you have the official source?

@maldog5118

6 ай бұрын

If there are no more wipes after launch what happens when your armor gets taken?@@dank4dayz

@AngelicStreak

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I remember it too. I don't have the official source, but If you had spent at least little time thinking about it, you would have realized you can always melt any item in your hangar and then buy it back for the obtained store credits (no ship disappears from your hangar just because it got destroyed in game). So yep, you have just made a useless video, my friend.

I for one have stopped spending real money on ships until i know exactly how the ship sale model and insurance is going to work in the future, happy to be a backer and support the game as much as i can but they do need to figure these things out and let us know before SQ42 comes out. Great vid, look forward to reading all the comments!

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Already lots of interesting comments!

@gstarrynight

6 ай бұрын

​@@FarristerWill be keeping an eye out for a saltemike react too 😉

@votpavel

6 ай бұрын

i got polaris and im gonna stop on that, their stupid limited lti sale doesnt help anyone, they couls just sell lti in their store non stop

My view on it right now is that literally any insurance right now and for the foreseeable future is all LTI and is unlikely to change anytime soon so I don't really bother trying to find LTI.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

That's true, for the short term, and seems to be working well

You forgot to mention the difference between the Hull (the LTI part) vs. Component (not covered by LTI) vs. Cargo (also not covered by LTI) Insurances. Also that the Insurance costs will be lower in Safe Space vs. Wild Space. This is essentially a CREDIT SINK requirement for game play.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Honestly I would just love some more up to date information on how it might all work - everything I could find was very outdated

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

the old information IS up to date.. jsut because its from a few years ago doesn't mean its changed. @@Farrister

In November, I melted all of my ships and purchased a multi-ship package with SQ42 and SC games, as well as LTI. The subscriber pack of 3 cutters with LTI was purchased earlier this month. Now, all of my ships are LTI with room to upgrade if I see something that I really want. After the original melt, these purchases, and a few upgrades, I still have over $400 in store credit, so can upgrade to about anything. I will not need more insurance.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Let's hope!

My expectation is that uninsured ships will be subject to longer reclaim timers and greater fees, but little more than that. The reason that there's so little clarity on this (merely a hypothesis) is that if people realize how little impact insurance will really have, they won't chase those LTI tokens.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Maybe!

@Ninja7546

3 ай бұрын

This. And in game purchased ships will probably just be lost if uninsured.

I could have sworn they addressed this but it certainly didn't become common knowledge among the community. I believe they said players would never permanently loose content they were rewarded with a pledge they will just loose the insurance plan and have to pay in game once it expires. if expired in-game you would have to pay a premium to replace the ship without active insurance but you will be able too. I don't have the time to locate these post but they promised the community you won't loose your ships or item they are account bound, without LTI you may have to go through in game hoops to recover them but they will still be there.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Do you have the source?

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

you showed the sourceand then claimed it didnt count because it was old@@Farrister

This is what sort of worries me, not knowing how insurance will play out. I have a few $100+ ships that i missed the LTI or cant buy back because i messed up the buy back on pledges (ment to buy back a LTI, accidentally got a ship with only 6 months insurance and lost the buy back with store credit opportunity. So now i dont know how to get back that opportunity...if i can.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

A fresh Q&A would really help!

Your insight on the need for ongoing funding is spot-on. It certainly makes the case for a subscription / monthly cost for private servers. Folks could pay a nominal fee to have a private server with cost scaling for how many other players could come into that server (i.e. 10, 20, whatever). That would allow CIG to collect for a service that motivated consumers would be happy to fund.

@Archmage9885

6 ай бұрын

That sounds like a pretty good idea.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Can imagine a lot of people not liking the idea of private servers ;-)

@felian9562

6 ай бұрын

Doesn't sound like the vision of the game. I mean, the server meshing and replication layer stuff indicates against individual servers.....if they get the tech to work.

I’ve gotten to the point of having one ship that is lti which is the one I would want to fly if all else fails and the rest I just cycle through melting cycles not caring about insurance. Since there hasn’t been any talk about it recently from CIG, it isn’t worth my effort to try and seek out

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew

My starter package came with 2 months insurance. There was no option to choose from, and I, being new to the game, didn't what this means anyway, or that there may be other options. So I believed this is just the standard value for anybody. I since upgraded the starter ship to a C1, which is more valuable. I actually do not want to lose that. What can I do now? Can the insurance be upgraded?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

The truth is nobody knows for sure what it all means, it doesn't impact anything in game right now

First of all thankyou for another great vid, Im a minimal player, but both my ships have LTI. First one I upgraded next ship up that included LTI, second ship I bought a minimal ground vehicle with LTI, everytime I upgraded I kept the LTI on bigger and bigger ships. (Unless I'm missing something). The thing that concerns me is that if SC cgoes onto a monthly sub, that I decide I cant afford, what will happen to the ships I have? Have I just lost the money or will I be able to sell them?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I wish I knew the answer - it's all speculation right now. There's not really much evidence that SC would move to a monthly subscription model - but who knows!

I see LTI as "you press one less button a month" and that's enough for me to want it on all my ships. Doesn't hurt that it's very easy to get.

@dwminiboss511

6 ай бұрын

Easy to get? Where?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Convenience factor

@blackworldtraveler3711

6 ай бұрын

Exactly what I thought and started with LTI only with very first ship. Some in Spectrum want to argue that it’s no big deal and you can do it in game but yeah one less thing to be concerned about.

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

because thats exactly what it is

@Glathgrundel

6 ай бұрын

Maybe they will remind players when we refuel/repair/rearm … and re-insure. I just imagine we will have to pay a nominal (in game) fee to get an uninsured ship replaced. If it costs 1000 UEC to get a destroyed ship returned or 12,000 UEC a year for insurance, (or 1000 UEC for 24 hours’ coverage), players might decide to NOT insure and instead simply pay for a replacement … playing the odds of getting destroyed less than once a month. A combat ship would be worth insurance, they get destroyed a dozen times a play session, but a Freelancer might risk going uncovered, opting to avoid any conflicts instead. With a huge fleet, it may be impractical to insure something that they use twice a year. I cannot imagine LOSING an uninsured ship PERMANENTLY, but being unable to claim it without paying a fee, that I could see.

I think graying the ship out on the terminals until you pay it off with in game credits would be the best solution.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Interesting idea!

@Nidvard

6 ай бұрын

While i do agree that it would be the best solutions, this comes with it's own problems. To deny access to something bought with real money until you pay more money is not only morally questionable, but in many countries also illegal. It would also in many countries be illegal to have people loose their virtual objects/properties for any reason

@PvtDamion

6 ай бұрын

While they're at it; CIG should update the ASOP terminals and have a window for retrieving ships and one for claiming ships. Somebody needs to make the scrolling stop!

@loll3r

6 ай бұрын

For the most of the situation probably is fine... but I think in a situation must be an exception, like what if - the player has only one ship - doesn't play that much or for any other reason can't afford to renew the insurance He still can't access to his ship and he can't make money to renew it because he can't leave the station/planet Imagine see the "SHIPLESS" people beg in chat to receive some cash to be able to play or worse... buy credits to access your own bought ship. Can be mitigated tho, like giving out some credits maybe with logins or stuff like that idk

@EverGameStudios

6 ай бұрын

@@Nidvard i Disagree, it's not so different from paying for ingame item that you can't use till you a certain level and such...

Thank you for diving into this topic. I know many (myself included) have questions about how insurance will play a role once SC officially launches.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew the answers, Snaggletoof

but you dont loose it , you just cant without uec buy it instantly back. so you salvage and buy it back like that or any other ingame stuff ?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I don't know

Last time I brought up insurance on spectrum, I got flamed because everyone thought it was too soon to discuss the subject. Switching the monthly subscription to include different levels of insurance without explaining the function of insurance - to me - was a bad move because there is no defined value correlation with subscription cost. However, CIG implies a valuation with the different levels of insurance correlated to monthly subscription cost. This could get CIG into trouble because they are implying longer insurance has a higher value without defining the value for what is called "insurance."

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Just wish we had more clarity

@the_babbleboom

6 ай бұрын

sounds like CIG sockpuppets pushing narratives and drowning out topics. [****rider-CIG throwing a tantrum about this comment]

@Glathgrundel

6 ай бұрын

Was it Nightrider … did he ban you from Spectrum? Nightrider doesn’t tolerate ANY awkward conversations about Star Citizen.

You will never permanently lose a ship in SC, if you paid cash for it, even if you don't have LTI.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Source?

@sneakyjedi3211

6 ай бұрын

It is true. Chris Roberts said so . Don't know which show it was. So many years of shows and interviews. @@Farrister

@jedi_drifter2988

6 ай бұрын

​@@Farrister From the way I understood it was, anything you paid IRL cash for can not be permanently lost. It includes armors, weapons paints/skins etc. There might be some sort of wait time or UEC insurance fee for ships, aspeshaly if your in a fringe/lawless system. Even LTI might not completely cover losses in no security systems, but either added Ins. before going into or a UEC deductible for extra damage claims . It is not completely worked out by CIG yet, but have heard this from CR and devs before . If so SC would certainly be a scam in the highest magnitude. Think of losing a legatus package ... Lawsuits out the ass, plus credibility would be down the toilet = No game/bankruptcy event. It would not make any sense to do it.

@FuhqEwe

6 ай бұрын

@@jedi_drifter2988So to answer the question of, “source?”, you have none. Great.

@jedi_drifter2988

6 ай бұрын

@@FuhqEwe Do your own research, Call concierge if you want the ans. I'm not your Mother ...

The other thing I'm curious about is that there are some limited availability ships out there that simply can't be purchased anymore. What happens when the insurance runs out on a Mustang Omega, a Titan Renegade, or a Hornet Heartseeker? (The Mustang Omega only came with two months insurance.) Will owners even be allowed to go to the pledge store and buy another one?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Good point

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

you just buy insurance ingame... what happoens when you run out of fuel.. you buy more.. what happens when you run out of missiles or ammo.. you buy more..

is there a way to extend you insurance in game soon?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's not needed in game for now - this is all about the future

I was under the impression that LTI meant that you never had to pay additional respawn costs, not that I would never permanently lose my ship. If that's the case, I'm never buying another ship without LTI. It's insane if CIG doesn't protect players' cash bought ships...

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

You might be right, the problem is I just don't know, and it's not easy to find out!

@AnymMusic

6 ай бұрын

this would also be literally illegal in EU countries. If it would be a "you lose all access to the ship" kinda deal, well I hope that they've saved some of that billion dollars cause damn is it ever a lawsuit waiting to happen

@FRETW1ZARD

6 ай бұрын

They have explicitly stated that if you bought something with real money, you will never lose it.

@Hippida

6 ай бұрын

There will be in game insurance when game go live. Not supposed to be to expensive

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

lti jsut means you dont have to reup your insurance. this guy has NO idea wtf he is talking abotu.(and literally admits it here int he comments) he is spreadignt he same bullshit fearmongering withotu bothering to learn. the sad thing is he LITERALLY SHOWS WHERE IT EXPLAINS INSURANCE and then claims it doesnt show count because.. its old?

In real world insurance you have a monthly fee just to keep it active and then you also have a deductible when you actually need to use your insurance, I bet insurance will have something like that. I'm thinking that CIG will simply say all store-bought ships have insurance a.k.a. no premiums on them and the LTI or X months will be that long for no deductibles

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

An interesting idea

This is a very good reality check that is conspicuously lacking in the majority (if not all) Star Citizen ship reviews. All those wishing to purchase ships should take into consideration purchasing a lifetime insurance (LTI) and include LTI in their budget; it's like a hidden tax. Thanks for this wake-up call, Farrister!

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

The issue for me is that we don't know how important LTI will be - maybe it's gonna be huge, or maybe it's gonna be minor. Nobody seems to know for sure!

You would just lose it until the next update or reset, correct?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

After the game goes 'live', it's assumed there would be no more resets. But this is all very speculative

I belive they will never take away ships from player accounts that were bought with real money. I find it hard to belive they are either that unforgiving, or want to market that kind of hardcore play.. then again, time will tell

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I certainly hope not to lose any of my ships!

@Teejay82_

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I hear you :) i got lti on mine, so i dont have to worry luckily, but if i had lost any of my ships tbh, id sell off the rest of the ships i had, or my entire account to cut my losses for sure.

@PvtDamion

6 ай бұрын

I don't think they will take em away, I think you might (< keyword) be unable to fly them until a fee of some sort is paid (ingame or otherwise)

I have an idea. Make the insurance system similar to real life. Make it a periodic payment. Per ship. Higher value ships cost more in-game money. New players will only have to pay little. But as they buy more ships in game and buy higher value ships, the expense becomes a bit bothersome. Then give subscribers a perk - all ships are insured during your subscription periods. So, it gives a choice to the players. Either you earn in-game money to insure your fleet, or subscribe and save the in-game money for something else.

@epidemicstudios

6 ай бұрын

So pay to win..

@exesidz

6 ай бұрын

At this point it's the norm. All non-subscription MMO does the similar thing to entice users to pay monthly, so at least it won't be worse than other games..

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Clarity would help us know

@evildude2135

6 ай бұрын

I think the best balance between letting people keep their ships that they spent hundreds on and not making it pay to win is a system where you pay for a certain tier of in game insurance upfront when buying the ship (with in game credits) and there are no periodic payments. And these insurance tiers define how many times we can respawn the ship after destruction. So let’s say I saved up a bunch of credits and wanted to buy a starrunner, the cheapest option would be to buy an uninsured one that I’d lose if I ever died with it. For a considerable amount more, I could buy one with ‘bronze tier’ insurance which means I can respawn my ship after destruction the same way as in the current PU, but after 3 respawns I’ll lose it. The tiers increase and you get more respawns with each but they cost exponentially more, so perhaps the most expensive tier could be platinum that would get you like 20 respawns or something, and for a considerable fee you could renew the insurance so if you’ve got like 1 respawn left you can pay to go back to having 3 or so, and while paying is an inconvenience it would cost less than buying a whole new issue of the ship. And you could upgrade so you could buy an uninsured ship and then pay for insurance later, you’ve just gotta hope you keep the ship safe in the meantime. With this system the people who spent real money on ships can keep them permanently without having that much of an advantage (besides avoiding the insurance cost) so it’s not really pay to win and lawsuits are avoided

@exesidz

6 ай бұрын

@@evildude2135 that sounds ok from players perspective, but how can CIG keep make money? Palworld dev recently revealed they spend about $500K a month for the servers. While Star Citizen may not have as many live userbase as Palworld when it releases in the future, the amount of computing resources that need to be handled in server side means they have to pay A LOT for AWS. CIG needs to generate revenue continuously to pay devs and server or Star Citizen will not last very long.

It is good that this topic is talked about so people dont have so much illusions about things. I have bought ships for little over 1000$ but i havent "bought" ships. I have SUPPORTED THE GAME DEVELOPMENT. If i lose my ships ingame after the insurance has ended and i have been so ignorant not to buy new insurance ingame then its fine by me that i lose those ships and the money. In the end you buy these "ships" with money that you are ready to lose. And btw. This insurance is for the hull only. So things inside the ship and cargo insurances are a thing ingame.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we had more clarity

My assumption is there will be tiers of insurance in game. Some that cost more to cover upgrades or have faster claim times etc. And if you are playing you would be using that. The attached insurance is for the most basic type. Only returns a stock ship. And indeed if you forget to keep it up ship is byebye. I am curious on how it will work in game particularly what happens for someone with a basic account who blew all ingame cash and lost thier ship. Im not bothered either way they want to implement it as i tend to play carefully and adding permanent loss to a game can make the game play feel very different. But im definitely curious what they will do. I'm also wondering if they ever offer a no ship starter pack. Will they implement enough options to make that work?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

The issue for me is a lot of this is assumption, we just don't have clarity

In Alpha people seem to think that their ships are a throw away commodity, which I can understand to a degree. However, one the reality of 'lose it and it is gone' takes hold after release out of testing I see people changing their play style or opting out of the game altogether. It is similar to 'the death of a spaceman' where your in game character will eventually die and not be able to be 're-cloned'. I do not play many MMO's, so I do not know if this is unique to SC where a character dies and you have to start over from scratch. Do I feel that it is an issue for the long term gameplay... yes. I do not play in a fashion that puts me more at risk than the average player, but I do see how some would take it as an affront should their character no long exist in the game after they took on too much risk. It is a fine line that the game is taking on between reality and playability long term. I appreciate you bringing it up, as many have on the forums. If I spend more real money on this game my wife is going to take away my privilege's. Thanks just the same though!

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Haha I feel you on the wife budget!!

I know myself. I'm going to take long breaks, don't want to think about insurance. So.. Get LTI while it's easy.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

If it's important - who knows!

When I backed on KS, I got the Aurora LTI package for $45. This past week, now that the game is starting to pick up the pace in development and we're seeing a more functional "game" in existence, I dropped another $45 and got another LTI package. I upgrade my original one to a C1 that now has LTI and can be used for core gameplay loops, and the second one to a better starter that can be used as a quick-claim shuttle. Not knowing exactly what insurance is going to entail, plus not knowing if there will be premiums to maintain a loadout or internal vehicle cargo like armor, guns, food and supplies, etc... Is a huge pain in the ass, and just made me want to have two with LTI as a baseline just in case, that I can then hopefully shell out in-game money to protect the internal components and inventory of. In the current state of the game, it sucks that there's no option to retrieve a ship via a terminal vs claiming it, and then losing everything you stowed away that's not in the cargo grid. It makes it hard to want to flow with that "persistent universe" gameplay when you have to jump through hoops to store your ship every session, or risk losing any food or armor/clothes you have stashed away. Gun racks are an awesome QoL feature that see almost no use from me because of the fact that if my game crashes, or I lose my internet connection outside of a 30K, I lose everything I took the time to stock my ship up with for a gameplay session. My hope is that LTI will cover the ship itself and any internal inventory it has (Food, Personal Weapons, Armor), where-as an in-game premium fee is charged to maintain any upgraded ship components onboard, with a much higher premium to insure any cargo on the grid from the time of your last docking. Not in the form of respawning the ship with that cargo, but maybe a flat, rounded-down payout that covers the lowest estimate of what the cargo might have ended up being worth. It's not as hardcore as I'm sure some players would like, but the continuous threat of losing anything you take the time to put on a ship that they want you to consider your "home in the stars", only to get ganked by the monthly meta build griefer or pad-rammer, and spend another hour restocking your ship with basics and expending your (possibly limited) time to play in a cycle of busywork seems like a hard punishment for someone who may not even be playing in a combat capacity. I wholly understand cargo not being insurable, but I feel like at the very base, the ships lockers and inventory should be insurable to allow you to get back in the game quickly in the event of a computer crash, griefing, power outage, etc.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Interesting to read - more information from Devs would be good, I think

How do you renew your insurance in-game? And how do you see how much insurance coverage you have left?

@razcsi

6 ай бұрын

It isn't in the game yet so you can't buy insurance in-game. The counter will start when the game releases

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's not currently an in-game feature, so for now, not something to worry about in-game.

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

its not in game yet. but it will be some sort of menu like the claim system now. except you would either purchase x days/months of insurance or just take out the ship without insurance and knowingly risk losing it.

My hope is that the ship isn’t lost all together but without insurance that you can’t claim the ship until you can earn the ingame credits to re-establish insurance or have a penalty sub purchase. I also agree there should be a system check when launching a vehicle from bay/hanger as it then allows the pilot the option to agree to the responsibility. On the flip, I feel insurance is gonna reduce griefer tendencies especially if a crime restitution amount comes to verse.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Could have a big impact on how people play

purchased ships with rl money should have a lifetime guarantee insurance by default imo

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's a lot of money!

I can see Pledges still being a thing, I can see a monthly sub becoming a thing, and /or a monthly insurance 'premium' fee for your Pledge past its insurance limit. But then there is the insurance for ships bought IN GAME, how will that work?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Ah complicated questions!

Wtb retro insurance policy at a higher rate?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Seems kinda backwards!

I know for a fact, in this economy, a large portion of the player base would just uninstall the game and forget about it if they lost their ships that they paid real money for. I only have 7 friends that play the game and they all said they'd just uninstall and play something else if they lost their ship and had to repurchase it with more real money. Those aren't great odds.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

If that's what we end up with, who knows!

@jerm22278

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I certainly hope not. I love playing this game so much. I'm hoping they'll think of a good alternative.

I feel for you. You usually make very neutral topic videos on SC. So now that you make a video that is actually a bit critical, or at least highlighting a huge issue, you got the full force of the worst of the fandom at your throat. Thanks for making this video. It is one of the most serious issues in my opinion.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, in hindsight I probably should have expected it! Still, like you, I think it's an important issue where more clarity would really help

@fredhawken1112

6 ай бұрын

its not critical its is simply wrong. they are not the same

I have backed and followed SC for a long time. This is my best understanding: In-game UEC (not a UEC) purchased ships may be lost if not insured. Real money purchased ships will have a period of insurance included. When that period expires, if you lose your ship, there is a policy lapsed fee when you file a claim (payable in UEC) that is much higher than the in-game cost if insurance, if you had purchased beforehand. LTI ships will have a policy that does not expire. There may still be expedite costs. There is also the possibility of entering deep Vanduul space which is uninsurable. In game purchassed ships are not covered here, and real money ships will have a very long recovery period due to the 'retreival and restoration' costs of the ship being lost so far out. This is based on lots of various videos and discussions I have seen over the years. It seems pretty clear, and fair, but of course it may not be accurate.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I think that's my issue, trying to find accurate, clear, and official communication on the subject.

Here's my idea: Go HARD on insurance. The insurance that we get via the pledge store only covers the basics, like basic comps. To keep good comps, you have to pay a moderate ingame aUEC price. However, The best components (I.E rare looted ones, or ones unapproved by the UEE that come from criminal systems or something) can not be insured. Additionally, raise the buying and selling points of components, and add the cost of those components to repair/restocking if they are taken from the ship. This would make looting components valuable, but also impossible to farm. I don't think claim times should go up, but having your ship destroyed shoyld shorten your insured time. Punishing players for essentially throwing away their ships is very important and could make crucial changes to pvp and pve encounters.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's a possibility, but I think we need to know for sure. Official communication might help!

I’ve always assumed after launch players will be able to just extend insurance with in game money.. is that not the probable idea?

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I assume so too, but what does that mean? What happens if you don't? etc.

@FreebirthBoccara

6 ай бұрын

that is

Good to talk about this subject. It took a while for me to understand what insurance meant.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I still don't understand!

One of the issue with insurance is also that, as we see in the current game, it is usually quicker to abandon or destroy a damaged or crippled ship than lose a lot of time going to a station for repairing it. If they introduce repair time and non negligible cost with it, it will get worst. And increasing importantly the time to reclaim would also lead to a new drama. I think that in the end they will have to give LTI to every ships bought in real currency. But you will have to pay at least a fee in game to retrieve your ship.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Time will tell...

My first ship was an avenger titan with 6 months insurance. When I found out it would be possible to lose that ship permanently, if it wasn’t insured, it made me super uncomfortable. I melted it and since then everything I’ve bought has LTI. LTI should come with all ships bought with real money. Packages already bought should all be upgraded to LTI and previous insurance levels should translate to a percentage discount on services at your home location.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Maybe it isn't possible, I just don't know!

@FeathersMcClaw

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister you're right though, that there hasn't been recent, clear communication about insurance from CIG. Generally I think there's a lot of confirmation bias going on when people speculate about the game. Some people want the game to be very sim-like, including the insurance system. Ultimately I think CIG are going to make game design decisions that appeal to a wider audience than the space sim niche (for longer term success). This means more gamey mechanics like we have with the capacitor system and fewer sim elements. For that reason I don't think the insurance system will be too punishing in the end, because it'll disgruntle too many people, especially where real money has changed hands.

@asog88

6 ай бұрын

I too have made a lti purchase out of the uncomfortable fear of forever losing your purchase

I recall someone explaining that insurance will run out but you won't lose your ship. If you want to get the ship back you need to just buy the insurance again. In game.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I think that's likely too, but don't know for sure ;-)

I used to be fairly confident that digital goods would be protected, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Haven't game publishers and streaming services like Amazon already removed items such as movies and games from peoples inventories because of some structural change in the company or ToS? I know some countries have consumer protections in place, but as a US citizen, I'm not really sure where I am with digital goods and protections. Buying LTI seems like the best option, and I've had years and years of juggling my hangar around to get it set up. All of my ships have LTI except the f8.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, lots of people been chasing that LTI

I expect every ship purchased with real money or warbonds to all be all lifetime guaranteed but at the bronze tier. Then true LTI ships bought through concept sales or LTI tokens to end up with a silver tier lifetime insurance. And then there will be a temporary gold insurance that we can subscribe and apply on top of whatever LTI insurance we already have. So the golden LTI will allow to reclaim your ship much faster, perhaps further away etc etc etc...

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Wish we knew

The thing is, CIG clearly tells you with every purchase that these are, in fact, not a purchase but a support donation. The ship we get in return is a "thank you" gift and is not regarded as the purchased item. While there might be legal consequences to that, I don't think it binds them to protect or keep your ships under any circumstances (even though we all agree that would be the correct thing to do regarding backers) extract from the RSI website : "When a pledge is made for any item on the store, the money is contributed towards the development of the game. In return for helping fund RSI’s operations, you receive the items listed within the pledge." This is why they have the "pledge" terminology

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I think it's more complicated than that lol, CIG isn't a charity, it's a business, and it's not a charity hub, it's a store. In some places maybe it's enough to say that, in some places probably not. It doesn't excuse not being clear about what insurance means, in my opinion

@antoinelelivec

6 ай бұрын

Fundraising doesn't apply only to charity (e.g. kickstarter) and I didn't say their fundraising activity was an excuse for being unclear. I only said (because you mentionned personal responsibility and legal aspects) that in my opinion, they are protected by the fact that all the items (including the insurance that may go with it) that you can get through a pledge are delivered in good faith and best effort by CIG (as the T&C states). If you lose your ship after the insurance expires, it doesn't change the fact that the insured ship was indeed delivered (and kept for as long as the insurance runs) when you contributed. Even then, we can't really define what counts as "well informed" ourselves because, as you mentioned in your video, while it might seem clear to me, it might not be for others.

From my understanding reading the ship insurance FAQ in the support thread under “What is Lifetime insurance and How do I get it?” It says it won’t cost the player extra UEC payments to maintain coverage. Not relating to claims and repairs that’ll still cost UEC. By how it’s worded it sounds as if you’ll be able to renew your insurance when it runs out with UEC if you have a non-lifetime plan.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I read that Q&A too, and probably left with more questions than answers lol

@ascendantrain2381

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I hope I’m right…I don’t wanna lose my Raven it only came with a 2 month plan😢

As far as i understood you can now claim your ship with your insurance, after those months it will cost credits to recall your ship from depending where it is. The further away and the more dmged it is the more you pay what now costs nothing

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Right now, none of this matters in game. Everything is insured, and you can just claim your ship. The unknown is all about what happens in the future

The whole Insurance issue is the reason why I did not start star citizen at all. And with the server wipes that can ruin your progress, what is the point of saving for a big ship via ingame currency... . Now I learned about LTI and registered for getting the newsletter in hope to get a chance to buy something with LTI I can build on. If not, Star Citizen is not for me. I can see a repair cost system (X % of the purchase value ) in ingame currency and some kind of subscription status that sets the repair cost in half.

A couple of weeks ago, I finally pledged for a game package. I wanted the C1 as my first "owned" ship but it is not included in the list. When I did the free flight at the previous IAE, a player told me that warbond ship has LTI so I took the Nomad warbond package. To my surprised, Nomad warbond only got a 2 years insurance. I submitted a ticket and got refunded and bought the Syulen warbond which has the actual LTI (a limited offer for the holiday) then I upgraded it to C1 Spirit.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Lots of people have made decisions based on this insurance element, I think

Thanks so much for making this video. There has been a lot of discussion about this on Reddit. CIG needs to open up about what they plan to do about it. Like you, I believe they know what they will do, but are keeping silent specifically so players spend more money out of fear.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@ChristoffRevan

6 ай бұрын

They aren't keeping silent so "people spend more money out of fear"...they are silent because they literally don't know yet how it will work as they haven't developed the gameplay systems for the fully fleshed out insurance yet. Stop acting like it's some big conspiracy...

@asog88

6 ай бұрын

@@ChristoffRevanthan they need to stop selling lti. It’s as simple as that.

I always figured that eventually Star Citizen would follow in EVE Online's footsteps in that you can purchase a premium currency for real money that can then be spent on cosmetics, account services, and starter packages, and then be sold to other players via an in-game market in exchange for UEC. This would provide a long-term funding system for the game while also offering a way to fight gold farmers. EVE Online has plenty of instances of people buying PLEX, spending it on ships, then losing those ships, so it's not unheard of. But at the same time CIG have shifted away from the more intense hardcore features with total permadeath becoming a clone regeneration system and the introduction of actual in-game skill stats you can train up by doing things, so my personal prediction is that they're going to sell ships for premium currency and introduce a "all ships bought as pledges during the alpha and beta phases as well as those bought directly with this new currency are permanently attached to your account, however insurance will reduce the costs and wait times associated with reclaiming them. Meanwhile ships purchased with in-game currency that are uninsured and are destroyed will be lost permanently".

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew what the plans were

In a thread about losing store bought gear a developer said you will never loose money payed assets, but there could be a different timer based on the asset and insurance. So I presume LTI just means better and faster insurance forever and with non LTI ships once the good insurance is off you can claim back the ship in its original state with a very long timer (several days even maybe). but until CIG tells us more its just speculations

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Yup, an official clarification would go a long way

It seems to me that a simple solution is to have any real money purchase that is destroyed in game without insurance remain available on the player's account, but require paying the insurance premium before it can be re-spawned. Basically, give them the option to pay the insurance after the fact rather than in advance only.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

That could be a fix - but we don't know if it's the case!

A good solution that doesn't outright raise legal concerns or even worse, lawsuits, is giving LTI and currently insured players their ships with an automatic expedition on the ASOP for free, that way they can't spam the ASOP (no instant ship delivery), and still have the benefit of not paying anything ingame. While other non insured players will have to either pay a hefty expedition fee, or wait a relatively long time (longer than the current setting). This is imo the most optimal solution considering there will be ship repairs and building from blueprints in the future.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

That might work too - I'd love if we had more official communication about it though

I think that insurance will become expensive (in game currency) for shops bought with in game currency. Basically it will be designed as an incentive to make players buy the ship with real money and any ship bought with real money will ultimately be protected from complete loss in any scenario. Clarification definitely needed.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Maybe - agreed on clarification needed part!

I agree, I hope CIG lays their plans out for how insurance is supposed to work soon. I am honestly not sure how the insurance system can roll out without causing major problems not only for the pledged stuff but also for the game. If it removes the uninsured ship from your inventory, there will be the obvious backlash for pledged ships. If it requires a small fee to get back the ship, it would make insurance a pointless addition. If it requires a huge fee to get back the ship, there is the potential theoretical problem of a player not being able to fly his pledged ship unless he grinded for some credits, which would basically be the same issue as needing to buy the ship again. I could see them making it so insurance on the ship insured the components and decorations on it, and if you reclaimed a ship without insurance everything would reset to the default state, but then CIG has talked about wanting the individual components to be insured too so that can't possibly be their plans for it.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Agreed - so many of the unknowns could be solved with a new statement on the matter. Or a community Q&A!

I think policies will be available in game with UEC and likely as a paid extra inc a subscription model. It might even be that you cant release an unisured ship without a disclaimer if at all, that way a player is more likely to get it insured or its a wilful action. In any case its likely a nominal fee with in game UEC will get it back and you wont lose it forever.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Yup, I think most people will just buy insurance in game and it'll be a non-issue. The topics here are more about those edge cases where people end up uninsured for whatever reason, and what might happen then?

I think it should be like that if you have insurance, you can claim your ship for free. But if you don't have one, you shouldn't lose that ship, maybe pay a hefty fine based on the ships UEC value. For example 5-10% of the ships value. You have an uninsured Aurora MR that you lost? Yeah that ship is 184k auec, you can claim it for 10k. You have a Drake Corsair that costs 3million, it was uninsured and you lost it? You can claim it for 150-200k. If they take away ships just like that it'll do no good. The media will notice it, people won't like it, maybe it's even against the law. But honestly i don't know what they'll do with insurances. I bought a Mustang Alpha for $45 with 10year insurance, i don't feel the need for an LTI, 10years is more than enough, who knows where this game, or where i'll be in 10 years. And it's 10 years from release, so it might be 12-15.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Lots of options, ultimately we need clarity from the developers on this, I think

I can't even boot the game because i have the 3.22 bug where if you go to jail your game just crashes, gotta wait until next patch to even get in. I'm not looking to spend money with CIG anytime soon

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

:(

I've been under the impression that you could never actually fully lose your ship if it's uninsured, just that you could not claim it until you pay for insurance (possibly with a late fee if you let your insurance fully run out).

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

You may well be right, I'd love to see a clearer official statement about how it will work!

@AuricNova

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister yeah I think it's about time we get some clarity

I believe the game should work like this: Without insurance you are forced to salvage with an SRV and bring your ship to a space port to repair it, or pay for someone to do it for you If it gets stolen you have to investigate and get it back, everything you buy should have GPS and be tracked with NikNax

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Interesting idea - I just wish we knew what will happen!

It might even be illegal to fly an uninsured ship just like in real life with modern vehicles. Shipyards might cut you off from taking off a few days before your insurance expires so in practice most people would struggle to be found in that position. Another trick could be for bed loggers, the ship would be automatically towed to a station a few days prior to insurance expiration. I'm sure the dev team can come up with all kinds of clever ways to save the ship but prevent access until the player does pay for insurance again. That way it's only ever a temporary loss.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

An interesting idea - I just wish we knew for sure!

my understanding of in game insurance is we will have to pay to repair the ship if it gets destroyed, it wont be about having to rebuy the whole thing

@Farrister

4 ай бұрын

Ultimately we just don't know

I was thinking about upgrading my lti STARFARER Tanker to a ARRASTRA. Then I seen it only has 6 months insurances. Imo anything you pledge to the company should come with lti. Just donno if it's worth it to pay an extra $275 with something that only has 6 months when I can prob try to gain in game. Then again, the STARFARER Tanker seems kinda useless atm =/

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

And maybe it is, but maybe it isn't - the not knowing is the tough part!

@mrsmith5114

6 ай бұрын

Pure facts. Love the channel, great outline for videos.@@Farrister

To be honest Farrister I don´t know what I would do if they also messed around with my RL bought ships, that all have LTI!!! I lost all my ingame purchased ships worth 50 mil+ Auec in September, after the patch update to 3.20 and CIG Counsil, has done absolutely nothing about the issue. Just hope they see the light and at least never thinking of touching ships that people bought with real life money. I still cannot understand why starter packages dont automatically come with at least a 10 year insurance, but I think it should be LTI on starter package covering the ship and the default loadout of the ship. Great U brought this up Farrister.....it has been on the back of my mind since starting playing SC, and frequently discussions, have been ongoing among SC friends, discord, twitch and other media, concerning this subject!!

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Ultimately all of this conversation leads to one thing: more clear official communication on the topic would be helpful!

@The_Real_bubbazaneti

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister Yep! totally agree! CIG mostly communicates one way!, the way that benefits them, unless U get to address an issue to some dev in twitch chat that is live, in a content creators/streams game session, and it usually ends up with they will look into it, and it ends there.

My idea for short term insurance (Non-LTI) is; you could restart your character from scratch with 6 months again and loose all reputation and in game earned resources... if you want to reset instead of continue as an existing character

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

That could work - I just wish we knew!

An interest topic of discussion, I have always striving for the LTI token on ships I plan to keep long term as a result, to ensure an “ I don’t care” in game attitude. Will be interesting to read viewers comments and see what eventuates in game.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I hope so

dont quote me on this, but im pretty sure insurance is like a monthly sub where u can pay using ingame money, and im pretty sure before you select your ship it will tell you how much insurance u have left and if you want to purchase more

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I think so too, but you know, some people won't want to pay :P

I seriously doubt it would be a permanent ship loss. Most likely, no insurance would mean that you pay full or much higher aUEC cost to claim the ship ingame at a ASOP terminal or that the time to claim will be much longer. Plus, if you did lose your ship then it would be back the next time a server reset happens for a update or patch.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Possibly, but I just don't know

Star citizen will be funded by game sales once they game comes out, in fact they said that will be the ONLY way to play the game. Meaning you get your starter ships and then have to work your way to bigger ships. No purchasing packages or ships with real money. It's been a while since they promised that so please correct me if they have changed anything

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Ultimately that may not be a sustainable model though - if everybody pays just once, that money won't last forever!

@omertaprimal6913

6 ай бұрын

@Farrister games can and will continue to have purchasing the game as a viable business model. If they change the business model against their word I will start a riot. That's not what I signed up for and that's specifically why I spent so much freaking money on ships. That was the deal they promised. They specifically promised that selling the game would be the only business model they used after launch. No ship sales and no monthly fees. They would also be in huge legal trouble with all the original backers and ship buyers who make SC one of the most funded games. I don't think they will have a money problem.

We all need to remember that the insurance goes by real world months, and that renewing a ship's insurance is supposed to be a trivial transaction. If you have a very large ship, like a hammerhead oe hull E, you should be using it in game in a way that one mission/transaction pays for well over the insurance cost for the next month. Other operating costs like fuel, armament, repairs are likely to be less trivial though.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I hope that's true :) but wish we knew for sure

@alexanderellwood8952

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister agreed, CIG needs transparency in this regard. Sadly, I doubt they even figured out the plan on this. Still possible they scrap the insurance aspect altogether. That would probably be the most healthy option imo

At this point even I think CIG doesnt understand what their insurance is doing. There's likely a disconnect between marketing, legal and development when it comes to how insurance would work. The way I think i'd work is that if you modify the ship from the purchased form (from what you first obtained it) you'll have a limit of getting those after market parts back. After that you'll pay a fee but you'll lose all those after market parts. So even if the LTI ends you'll pay a small fee but lose all the modifications. Its oddly weird that they havent fixed a lot of this.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

There's certainly a disconnect in the community expectations!

I was under the impression that purchased ships were account bound and you could get back a lost uninsured purchased ship by invoking a character reset. Yes you would lose all of your game progress and have to start again but you would get your lost ship back. I think that is how CIG will get round any legal issues with lost ships. Lose an uninsured ship that you originally purchased, want it back, you have the choice to invoke a character reset and start again or carry on without that ship but keep your game progress..

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Interesting idea - I wish I knew for sure!

For the future funding model, I'd like to see the same subscription system that's available right now. Meaning it's fully optional, no game-play is locked behind it and you just get some subscriber flair and rental ships each month. So it would just be a way for people who have some extra cash and want to support the game to do so, and people who can't or don't want to pay the subscription still only need a $45 game package to get access to everything.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Would that be enough to fund the servers etc., do you think?

@Archmage9885

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I have no idea. But I also wouldn't mind if CIG kept selling ships if necessary. As long as the full game is still accessible with just a $45 game package and all other purchases are optional.

I’m fairly certain that insurance will simply mean if you run out of insurance whether it’s a ship that you bought with real money or in the game you will lose it. That maybe the games that you bought with real money might still show up just you’re gonna have to buy it straight out so you don’t have to fly to the location to buy it.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Maybe - an official announcement might help to manage expectations

@redsamurai6586

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister I really hope they do…..with LTI being the best bang for your buck… also, that’s why when people buy 890 jump with not lifetime insurance hurts me every time I see it 😂

Seems to me there's an easy way out: insurance is a per-claim cost that you pay on your ship, like we currently do with expedite, and that cost is zero for people who have active insurance from pledges. But then again I have never really had much confidence in the specifics of how the insurance system will work, so other than the usual min-maxing instincts of getting LTI when it is convenient I haven't had my expectations set around it being that much better than anything else.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

To be honest I think the easy way out is to clearly publish the long term plans for insurance!

I would love for this feature to allow you to pick up the hull of your ship and have to rebuild it, maybe it's super cheap in game money but that way you can pick up your lost ship from the junkyard and work on it. There does need to be pain to losing a ship imo.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Assuming there's a hull to pick up!

1:26 While some older articles indeed say you'd just straight up lose your ship if its destroyed uninsured, Azme-CIG more recently commented that you could get back destroyed ships that didn't have insurance, it'd just cost more than if you had an insurance. And then even more recently prefaced that with 'everything being subject to change ofc.' And the post got un-yellowed. Hmm. Anyhow, I wouldn't panic just yet.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

No intention to panic!

@ChristoffRevan

6 ай бұрын

​@@Farristerlmao sure..... 😂 Your video was literally clickbait to get people to react emotionally to something you have zero sources on. You keep replying to people in the comments and demand proof, but yet you have zero sources yourself for the idea that somehow our pledge ships will be able to get lost forever from our accounts. Bugger off chappie

Imo there should be a basic insurance that always pays out at least partially the lost value, if you didn't fully insure the ship before. Also, there should always be a very big fat warning that tells you that you have no insurance, when you take out the ship.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew for sure

Having insurance will basicaly return the hull back to you as it was without the upgrades you might have put on, whether you get the money value back from those upgrades you put on is something we will have to wait and see. On the other hand if your insurance runs out you'll more then likely have to pay a heavy fee to get your ship back but it will never be truly gone. These are the points that have been discussed and talked about over the years of Star citizen's ongoing development. In the end all we can do is wait and see.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Do you have an official source for this?

@purson117

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister As i mentioned they have discussed and talked about it over the many years of development what insurance would look like and what we can expect in video's from star citizen. but we can't really confirm untill we actually get it ingame.

I remember CIG saying for those who bought ships with real money, that they wouldn’t have the risk of completely losing the ship. Not much details on that though; but it is on their minds.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's not confirmed in an official article - there was one post from an employee which got de-yellowed which people reference. But not so much an official statement

@XeroJin84

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister ah, cool. Thanks for the clarification. Hard to tell what's what sometimes.

I think there's going to be a "buy-back" system ingame and I wouldn't be surprised if pledge ships can get destroyed "permanently" or be expensive to regain (either with UEC or $$$). There are enough "tricks" to get LTI ships tbh, the only ship I have without it is my starter, but I'd lose my SQ42 package if I would melt or upgrade. Also probably won't be using it after its 6 months. I'm curious to see what form the insurance policies are going to take: is it going to be a monthly fee? Per ship? For ingame currency or real-life cash? Or will it be optional? Or will it be a fee on top of the purchase? And where will you be able to recall you ship? Only your set homeworld? And what components will it come with? Will they need separate insurance? Whatever CIG will decide, I'll be prepared (as much as one can) xD

@johnwilliams4198

6 ай бұрын

You will not lose your game package by upgrading your ship tied to it. The game package travels with the Upgraded ship. I have personally done this many times. After I realized that my main game account was purchased with a 6 month insurance and I had upgraded it from a Titan, to a MSR, to a Carrack, I said oh crap and melted it after securing a game package little starter with LTI. Then I upgraded it to my Carrack again. Now my Carrack has the game and LTI

@johnwilliams4198

6 ай бұрын

I did lose my first game package but the value was retained in melted money towards getting the setup I wanted.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Will also try to be prepared, I just wish we had more clarity!

The solution, to keep everyone happy (fat chance), is to have the insurance you buy with a ship, insure the ship and all its upgraded components and free standard insurance, when it runs out, on every ship that just replaces the standard hull and fixtures. That would work for me.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Could work, if they came out and said that was the system!

From how I see insurance it would go like this. If you got the ship in game for in game money, if you loose it uninsured, well that's gone forever like they said. Now with ships that are bought with real life money but have run out of insurance would go if they get blown up, instead of loosing the ship permeantly you have to pay the fine that would cost for that day's insurance. If not your "wreck/title" gets impounded. That means they'll hold on to that ship until you pay the 1 day of insurance cost off but during the time you have it impounded, you simply can't use or interact with it. This would get people to care about the insurance for ships with lowered insurance times from the get go while also not worrying that however much their purchase is, they'll never loose it.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew the answer!

@chillylytical9410

6 ай бұрын

@@Farrister only thing we can do is theorize and hopefully cig will implement a system where it’s fair and gives you chances when you need it

Seems like an ASOP retrieval fee to cover installation costs until next time it is stored would solve that problem. Then you are forced to pay a nominal insurance fee to access the ship. Permanent loss prevented.

@Farrister

4 ай бұрын

Lots of potential solutions, I just wish we knew

i think a good method would be that with insurance, their is no claim time (or the reduced time is default with insurance) and then without you just need to pay the claim or, wait it out

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Possibly. I just wish we knew how it will all work

Just my two cents: There should be two models of insurance. The first would be the insurance tied to a ship bought with real money. The other would be insurance you can buy in-game to insure in-game bought ships. For the in-game insurance. First off it would be optional. If you don't have it though and the ship is destroyed you lose the ship all together so you'd have to rebuy it. I'd like to think this will help with the much needed money pit the game needs. If you do get the in-game insurance and the ship is destroyed you'll get not only the ship back but any aftermarket components / weapons back. To have a negative to the insurance though you'll need to pay some to get the ship & all back. Not as much as outright buying the ship again but a fraction of it. Say maybe 1/4 of the ship's cost? For the insurance bought with real money if you lose the ship you'll again get the ship & aftermarket stuff back. For those that bought a ship with a limited (say one year insurance plan) after that one is up you'd too would have to pay some money (in-game money) to get the ship & all back. Not as much as the people who bought the in-game insurance just as a nice little bonus for spending real money so say maybe like 1/8.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

Interesting ideas - I only wish we knew for sure!

I'm guessing that the devs are also realizing that this is an issue but aren't sure yet what to do. It's a challenge. On one hand, it seems crappy that you can loose any protection when you charged so much for a game. On the other hand, insurance provides a great counter to reckless player actions such as crashing intentionally to grief or any in game pvp which would provide a natural risk vs reward for piracy or traveling without other players support. I like the idea that decisions have consequences in the game for both aggressor and defender, but the large monetary pledges throw a wrench into this. I have no idea what I would do if I were in charge.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

It's a conundrum

I've seen this issue brought up before, but never seen an official solution. If i was going to throw out an idea to cover CIG's backs, I think they could look at allowing a backer to fully reset their account. Whilst losing all progress in game, it would mean nothing bought with real money was gone forever. Few would want to do it and most would rather insure their stuff. CIG would obviously need to check it covers them legally.

@Farrister

6 ай бұрын

I just wish we knew