The puring process is very very important and absolutely matters... to people selling you puring and shafts!

@SupeDefy

2 жыл бұрын

The beauty of it for clubmakers is there's no way a golfer will be able to say puring didn't do anything. They'll just assume it's helping them without any proof other than some paper that says shafts are now (make up a number)% more "consistent." Puring is pure profit with no refund policy.

@powpowpro

2 жыл бұрын

@@SupeDefy Right? If puring is so great then, with all of the club and ball measuring tools at our disposal (Tman, Fscope, and ball hitting robots), where is the proven data? SST Pure wants it to work so they can make more money. Club builders want it to work so they can make more money. Customers want it to work so they can justify what they spent on hope.

@Jpgundarun

2 жыл бұрын

@@SupeDefy I can say puring does F-All because I did it to some irons I had been using for 20+ years. There was no difference in Distance, Accuracy or Consistency. They felt stiffer at first but after 3 games I got used to them and they felt like they had never been touched. It's a gimmick.

@SupeDefy

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jpgundarun Yup. It's more placebo than real life benefit. But I suppose that is a thing. I would use the money for putting lessons. Now that will actually help with lowering the score.

@FredzGolf

Жыл бұрын

@@powpowpro I spine align everything *for free* for customers Found some data in small batches of shots that it can influence peak height (spine towards target vs spine away from target) - More blind testing is needed on my part to be absolutely sure it wasn't a placebo affect I wouldn't want to charge for puring if I could't show ball data to support its value

Great test AJ! Thanks for sharing the results.

enjoyed the content very much. informative as usual.

Have there been any comparisons between "pured" and "unpured" shafts on a machine like Iron Byron? It would be interesting to see comparative measurements like ball speed, carry distance, etc.

Thanks for this interesting video! During a fitting session of a hybrid and a wood5 my fitter asked me to make some additional shots with my (also fitted) driver. At this times I had problems with slice and length in my drives. He exchanged the shaft by a shorter and stiffer one. Immediately the curve and the length were much better. Such kinds of changes are simple and really effective. Especially for hobby golfers like me (HC 14-18) whoms shots differ from one by one. And - how crazy - this was for free 🤠

Nice follow up to your video with the high speed camera and various types of spining/FLOing and Puring. That video has led me to discourage golfers from spending money on Pure, and has pretty much stopped my practice of FLOing when building clubs. Also, nice looking TE Forged clubs in the test. One of my personal favorites. - Dave

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate it. And yeah, that TE Forged got a lot of complements from people during the test, most of whom had high end irons in their bag.

Excellent experiment and factual results. 👌 You have cleared one thing that there is lot of gimmick in golf shaft industry to promote false claims of increase in distance and accuracy .So is the claim of new clubs promoted every year by the OEM.

Thanks for the content and thoughts. I get the point about “burning $20 doesn’t hurt your golf game, but..”: In a world where I have limited resources, spending a couple hundred $ extra for “pure-ing” shafts means a few hours less on the lesson tee. So…yea…burning $20 DOES hurt my game! Thanks for the great video. If you do some deeper tests…I’ll watch it!

Great test, always wondered if it would make a difference

I’m guessing they couldn’t tell the difference. I would have guessed if anyone would benefit it would be the scratch (or plus handicap) golfers, as their swing is more consistent, and more “feel”. I always wondered about this. GREAT video. Thanks AJ 🙏🏻

Great video , and thanks for making it. I have paid to have this done in hopes that it will help my game out in some way or another. Keep up the great work!

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching it! Appreciate the support.

Awesome test. I bought a new driver shaft and had it pured. I don' think I would ever have the other clubs pured unless there was no upcharge. The reason I did it for the driver is because I was contemplating dispersion rather than distance. I figured if there was a change it would be for the 250-300 yard club, in terms of dispersion.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, paying for it once is far different from 7 or 8 times for a set of irons with no real benefit to see.

love your candor and telling the truth on some of this babble

As demonstrated there is a noticable difference between the pured axis at 12 o'clock and at 3 o'clock as well as in the dispertion pattern as in the feel. So a set where all shafts are aligned the same way will be more consistent then a set that is alligned at random. What the best way is to find that axis (puring, FLO or spine) is a different question. Personally I think that since during a swing the shaft does not occilate or vibrate but bends, that spine finding is the most realistic way (and it happens to be also the cheapest way). I recently spine alligned the steel shafts on my irons and wedges (spine at 12-6 o'clock and NBP at 3 o'clock) and I do feel a difference in the set being more consistent from one club to the other. My swing got more consistent and I'm hitting more on target. This corresponds well with the findings in the video. I didn't bother to do the same on the graphite shafts of my woods and driver since the NBP is barely detectable with a spine finder. Steel shafts even of the best quality all have a very pronounced spine. This because they all start from a sheet of metal that is rolled into a cylinder and welded together. This weld is no longer visible after stretching the steel tube to reduce diameter and wall thikness, but it still is present as a weak bend point (NBP). I was very sceptical to the concept of alligning shafts since the forces acting on the club trying to rotate the shaft along its axis into the NBP are extremely small; alligning one shaft is still ludricrous, but alligning all the shafts in set the same way makes sense. And if you align for dispersion (the right way) or distance control (the wrong way) that is just a personal chooice.

@db-ps1gz

3 ай бұрын

Exactly, well said

Great video, and really interested in this topic. I had 2 new graphite shafts installed this season. Both Graphite Design MAD shafts...one in my driver, and one in my 5W (both installed by the same builder). Looking at the two of them side-by-side I realized the shafts had been installed in different positions (one logo down, the other logo sideways). Was worried it would effect the shaft performance. This video seems to suggest it's no big deal.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Would not worry about it, as long as the visual doesn't bother you. A good shaft is a good shaft and a bad shaft is a bad shaft. Rotating it in different ways won't change that. Those MAD shafts seem to be very solid for what I've seen of them.

As you noted, I think that shaft puring is less important the higher quality the shaft. This is a "tour" shaft, and thus has quite high quality control standards at the factory. For those shafts that are a bit more "eco" shafts, the tollerances from shaft-to-shaft could be quite a bit higher, and the shaft-puring process does two things. It ensures that through-out your club set, they are set in the same orientation so that from club-to-club we have a consistent base. The other thing that it does is it ensures that you don't get a lemon... i've owned and operated a manufacturing business for over 8 years, and I can tell you that even if you have a great quality control system, lemons will still get through out to market. Having a single shaft pured probably not worth it... having ALL of your shafts pured WILL ensure that you didn't get the one that slipped through... Chances are quite low that you'd be the unlucky one... but if you're already paying for fitting + $$$$ for high quality clubs... why would you take that chance? just my 2 cents... I liked you're approach of Counter-puring the shafts as the experiment, but i think you have to do the experiment with a shaft that is found to be way-out of tollerance (or at the very extreme of tollerences) to see what the potential difference could be... The two shafts you had may have both been A+ quality shafts (within their shaft-class/type/brand/model) so your results may not be indicative of worst-case scenario. I'd love to see you do the same thing with one that was purposefully slightly damaged or bent, or one that had been rejected through an SST process so we could see the max-potential gain of puring. Thanks again for this, thumbs up!

@FredzGolf

Жыл бұрын

I find some lower cost shafts for drivers have a much harder spine ...if you build 10 spine aligned and 10 with writing underneath ...they must have some differences ...I'd love to be able to quantify my thoughts

Excellent information thanks a million you saved me a few bucks !!!!

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it helped!

Great info AJ! I discovered that long time ago. I have a driver shaft Pured, it has a TM sleeve and it is Pured at standard loft. But I am way more consistent with the higher loft set, which puts the SST sign way off line. So, for me Pured shaft did not work.

@John-78

2 жыл бұрын

Your experiment may just prove more loft is better for you over less loft and a pured shaft. Doesn't mean more loft combined with a pured shaft wouldn't be better still though.

Good vdo . Small things make a lot of difference !

I would like to have seen the test done hitting on a launch monitor. For me, it's hard to tell on a driving range, without a launch monitor, if a 7 iron is going 5 yards farther.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Ideally I wish I could have done this test with a LM on site however that would have required a lot more moving pieces. Maybe we redo it one day that way. However I already know what the result would be.

@mattdotson24

2 жыл бұрын

Launch monitor to a target and use strokes gained metric.

@yogamon

Жыл бұрын

I have tested two nearly identical 7 irons with both pured and one set at 7:30. I hit the pured one 30 yards further

I have never believed this process works in modern golf shafts but have understood that what they were selling was either a placebo effect or a choppers desperate stab at improvement. Think about it, for a shaft to be that far off to make these types of claims stand up you’d have to be one of those suckers born every minute. Thanks for your honesty.

So interesting. Thanks for doing this. Such great content. As a complete club building knowledge noob I'm learning so much from you. Is your sense that PUREd graphite shafts wouldn't be much different either regardless that the manufacturing process is so different?

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Correct. Spine alignment of any kind makes some assumptions that don't really apply to golf as far as the swing mechanics and how the shaft bends and releases during the swing. The simplest way to think about it is, PURing a shaft doesn't change a shaft. A bad shaft, (meaning an inconsistent feeling shaft b/c of inconsistent stiffness), is still that after PURing it. You're not fixing anything. The important part is the consistency of stiffness all the way around the shaft. What you want are shafts that are uniformly stiff all the way around. Good news is most every modern shaft is good to great at this point. Steel or graphite.

Thanks, very interesting video !!

I've had my shafts purred for many years yet I think the most significant thing about your test is that the un-purred shaft was as wrong as it could possibly be! Great stuff. I think how fitters gets us is we're paying so much for a new set or club that you just don't want to take the chance for the sake of another $20. If you hit a few weird shots as your getting used to them you could easily convince yourself its the fault of the shaft being un purred and it becomes a self fulling prophecy!!

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

I think you just perfectly explained what happens with a majority of golfers who get sold on this idea from the fitters.

@powpowpro

Жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC Uh Huh, the low price point is a key part of the subterfuge with puring. It's like buying insurance you don't need. I just paid 1,500 for a new set, what's an extra $25 per club to ensure the shafts are put in with spine aligned???😅

Great video AJ. Never really bought into puring, but you would hope that improvements in shaft design/engineering/manufacturing has come so far that puring is pretty much redundant these days 🤔

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I think if you believe that PURE could make an inconsistent shaft better, that is no longer much of a concern today. For me, I still go back to a bad shaft is still bad after PUREing, you haven't actually fixed anything in the process.

I think that the quality of the shafts today is so good that SST doesn't matter! I have driver shaft that i pureed 10 years ago and still use, at that time the quality was not as good as today, so, yes, at that time the SSP pure had a purpose!

I struggled with my 3 hybrid while I hit the 4, 5, and 6 very good. I had the 3 hybrid SST purred and wow what difference I love that club now, so yes it was worth money.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

The only change you made to the club was reorienting the shaft after being PURed?

@wje013

2 жыл бұрын

What happens after you rotate your shaft when you have a adjustable hybrid? Isn’t the spine going to change? Just curious…

So I've had pured fairway shafts (Pured Oban then switched to non-pured Fujikura) and steel iron shaft (s400 TI). I've rebuilt my woods and wedges with different shafts that were not pured and to be honest I can't tell a difference. My misses aren't better misses and my good shots are always good. My stock yardages didn't change. I recently dialed in my swing weights with all my clubs (D5/6, D7 wedges) and have found that to be a dramatic improvement in my game (both distance and accuracy) over getting my clubs pured. I won't pure my clubs again in the future as I don't recognize the benefit for the cost. FWIW I'm a 6.5 index

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Golfers will be far better off getting things like swing weight, and loft & lie dialed in.

Having each club feel as similar to each club throughout the set is what I want to achieve. I think frequency matching was the breakthrough in shafts.

@dashgerhg8772

Жыл бұрын

The difference is very very minimal to social golfers. If your usual ball flight is consistently biased and have all your current set of clubs pured instead of just one club you never played with previously, you noticed the consistency of hitting the sweet spot. In golf it is very very difficult to diagnose miss shots as there are many many reasons behind it plus you don't get to see your own swing to know what causes it. Another point I would like to add is that it takes time to get to know a single club, for instance it takes roughly upto 6 weeks playing golf 5days a per week to feel comfortable with a brand new driver. There are initial responses when you try them out first in terms of feel and consistently, but to be able to control ball flight shapes, that takes weeks in training to get used to. Also one of the shafts unpured may by accident have strikingly similar set up as the one that is poured. You should really take out 3 identical clubs preferably long irons and have 1 poured, the second one set up with the weakest part of shaft turned 180° opposite to the way poured iron is set and the 3rd one at 90°. Make sure the loft and lie angle is adjusted to the players usual preference with matching shaft type to the players current club and as well as the club head, then conduct testing with a player with handicap of +4 or better. The difference is minimal but minimal difference is a huge factor in golf. To golfers in general that plays socially majority would not know the difference. Ian from TXG has his shafts pured for what he plays in 2023.

@canyonaro

11 ай бұрын

@@dashgerhg8772TXG is now owned by Club Champion, which owns SST Pure. And Ian isn't paying for it. I've had clubs pured in the past but I find the annoyance of misaligned shafts bothers me more than any consistency gained. I believe in the principle of it but shaft quality has improved so much in recent years that I think it's a negligible difference. Matching weights and frequencies matters more IMHO.

Great video! I guess one could argue that a shaft that was Pured but installed 180 degrees from the Pured point would perform the same since the shaft is circular and the pure point would still be running along the same axis no? What’s also interesting is that if you give someone two identical clubs they must assume that something is different about one especially if you ask them to choose. The results are really interesting though. Curious as to what iron heads those were. They look great.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Correct on the Pure point. All shafts need to be looked at as bending in planes since they are tubes. Those heads were Maltby TE Forged heads from Golfworks. I got a lot of complements about the look and feel during this test.

@MrPanukkio

2 жыл бұрын

@MOBILE CLUBMAKER GOLF There are machines made for the exact purpose to find out how shafts bend. If the spine of the golf saft is placed 180° to the opposite side it would be running along the same axis but it would produce more or less lead deflection. Depending where the spine is. If you turn it 90° you would see even bigger difference. The real guestion is this. How much it matters if the spine is "in the wrong place". Does it affect the launch conditions 00.1% or 3% or something between that. And if we wanted 100% accurate data, first we should check the bend profiles of those two shafts first. Even if those should be identical they unlikely are. Some manufacturers accept even 10% tolerances between "same safts".

I pured a driver 10 years ago using a bench vice, home made spine finder and a 200g drill chuck with a laser attached. I found huge benefits on mishits. If you've ever used a spine finder and you feel the difference in stiffness as you turn the shaft, you'll understand that if that variation in stiffness is all over the place through your set, how can that be a good thing. I've done myself the last two sets of irons,a driver and 3 wood that we're fitted. Like you say AJ, it can't hurt. But I feel there's gains in the longer clubs. I'll always pure. Mentally I've eliminated a variable in my game.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to do it yourself, I've got no problem with it. Charging people $35 per shaft with shafts that are incredibly consistent to start with, that's where I have some issues.

@1974jrod

Жыл бұрын

​@@EFGMCThe only thing I can say is that your test was purely based upon the subjectivity of feel, while I do agree that good quality shafts are already of good quality. However, there were no objective measurements on where the ball landed in relation to its intended target.

If they knocked the pricing down on the puring I probably would have bit when I bought my shafts. Even knowing that it probably wouldn’t make a difference.

Puring a golf shaft while won't hurt....takes all the possible varibles out of shaft error and oscillating of the shaft...Top of the line golfers probably do this to their shafts for a edge in their game...So until you hit one on a launch monitor and see the data, it would be hard press to get a true verdic...When you get a custom set of clubs made for you....then What Price Glory.....Great Review...Thanks..

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Did this video with Mr. Shortgame. You want LM data, it's linked in the comments. kzread.info/dash/bejne/k5Zlt9erc7ayg7A.html

Hi, love your channel! Can you break down in simple terms, steel shaft or graphite shaft is better ? What are the highest quality shafts i can pick for my irons thanks

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Tricky question. Used to be steel was heavy and more accurate while graphite was lighter with more dispersion. At this point that no longer holds true. Graphite can be as heavy and accurate as any steel and steel can get under 80g. Really comes down to shock absorption that graphite offers and the feel of it. As far as best shafts, mainly comes down to weight and finding what is best for your swing. Names I like are True Temper (Dynamic Gold, Elevate), Project X, KBS (Tour or S Taper), and Nippon in steel. Graphite I like Aerotech Steelfiber, Mitsubishi MMT. Again most important thing is finding a good weight shaft, then finding the right launch profile and flex to give the right feel for each individual golfer.

@kidze73

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC appreciate it!

I will say that while you might not always see a performance gain from spine aligning or having it PUREd in my opinion its all about consistency of the build. It makes more sense to me that all of the shafts within a set are installed with the same orientation. It is just one more step to ensure quality control. There is a reason so many pros have their shafts PUREd. I have a few clubs that I have had re built with different shafts and my club builder spine aligns them and they are very consistent. Also one of my most accurate clubs is my 50 degree wedge that is not spine aligned so yes its not going to make you a better golfer but I think there is some value to it.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

But does your builder charge you $35 per shaft to do it? If it was a $5-$10 deal, I wouldn't complain.

@PbD187

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC no extra charge.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@PbD187 Then I have no issues with it!

I think your videos are spot on, AJ. I guess my only question would be, when you moved the non-pured shaft to an alternate position, what was that position? It seems to me, looking at it from a strictly metallurgical standpoint, if the two clubs were 180° out from each other, the difference between them would be almost impossible to detect, even by someone like Tiger Woods, whose known for that type of touch. Maybe one would feel stiffer swinging back and the other from the top and through, I don't know. It may be worthwhile to do the same test with 3 or 4 clubs in different positions, or book some time on Iron Byron. Lol. I'm not for or against pured shafts but I use headcovers on my irons so what do I know. I clean my clubs after every round so when I'm playing I leave the headcover off the clubs I use so I know which clubs to wash. That being said, I play the original King Cobra Oversize and my clubs are in better shape after 25 years than some I've seen that are only a couple of years old. But that's another test. Thanks for helping us out buddy. TJ Meyer

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

I had a set of those Cobra irons. Those things were long. As for your question, the PUREd plane is to install at 12 o'clock. Since it's a plane we look at when talking about shaft flex, installing the shaft at either 12 o'clock or 180 degrees at 6 o'clock would be the same. I installed the other shaft at around 4:30 essentially so that it wasn't on the 12/6 o'clock plane and also not on the 9/3 o'clock plane (ie 90 degrees) since some people install the spine in that orientation. So mine was in no position that could be called "aligned" by anyone.

@powpowpro

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC The fact that proponents of puring can't even agree on the orientation of the shaft is another red flag. It's voodoo sold as plausible nonsense.

extremely interesting video, thank you very much. I knew your opinion about SST puring and spine alignment from a former video. And I am absolutely with you with the shafts. my big BUT: there is a difference between the shaft you by aftermarket and the OEM version. The aftermarket material is having a stronger quality control, I am working in the bicycle industry and we are having suppliers who REALLY do a quality control and put the well passed product in the aftermarket box, the not passed product in the OEM box and the absolutely not passed product back to the production manager. It sound strange to you? thnik about it a minute or two. Would you throw away a more or mess OK product that nobody will control again? In other words: I had a Mizuno iron set out of the MP line 4 years ago and all clubs have been good exept from the 7 iron. KBS Tour shaft in it, after reshaft to an aftermarekt modell the 7iron was as good as the rest of the set.

Thank you

I’ve never heard of this shaft pouring process and have been playing golf my whole life, but as soon as I saw the claims that they were making I had to put my waders on cause the crap was filling the room!

The SST PURE technology/process makes sense to me. All shafts, including graphite, are going to have irregularities and thus have an "optimal" orientation. But I agree that the percentages and numbers they quote on their paperworks are stupid. You could "guess" correctly and install a shaft in it's "pure" orientation. And those percentages of "improvement" only related to it's initial analysis (or how you initially install it in the machine).

Thanks for making this video. I didn’t know if there was anything to it or not, there was always something that bothered me about the club builders that offered it tho. If I was responsible for building you a set of clubs I would want to give you the very best set of clubs out of the material I was tasked to build with. If purring the shafts were that much better how could a builder not do it anyway, why sell a sub standard product. On the other hand the builder selling the so called purring is maybe just out to get your money

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

There are so many issues with the whole idea but maybe the biggest is that it doesn't fix anything! Bad shaft is still bad. That doesn't change because you rotate it around.

I would like to have seen track man info. What did the golfers base their decision on? Feel, distance, dispersion or all the above? Also, one of the claims is that it's more beneficial to pure graphite. Would love to see a vid on graphite pureing. But, that might be an expensive test. Thanks for the vid.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

This test was all feel, and visual however I also did a collaboration with Mr. Shortgame where he tried to pick the pured shaft. Here is that link. He also included the Trackman data down in the comments section. kzread.info/dash/bejne/k5Zlt9erc7ayg7A.html

In a 2002 interview by Golfsmith Clubmaker Magazine, the inventor of the the Puring process, Dick Weiss says: "PUREing is the ultimate way to analyze a shaft's irregularities. It's not done randomly. It's not done by "eye-balling." It's done by a sophisticated computer system which performs exactly the same way, regardless of the shaft manufacturer, and regardless of whether the shaft is made of steel or graphite." This process may "analyze a shaft's irregularities", but that doesn't necessarily mean it will improve performance.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. It doesn't fix anything, just moving the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Great video. The cherry on the cake here really would have been some data. Only from a few players, to see if irrespective of 'feel' if there was a measure difference in side to side and front to back dispersion. TXG's video showed zero difference, I think if you were to have data for those players, it would have been the first video I've seen showing an in depth test backing up the feel with actual numbers. Possibly worth re-visiting in the future if you have the time.

@EFGMC

Жыл бұрын

Now that my fitting studio is almost ready and I have GC4 for measurements, we will do some more testing on this.

@GRIFF22

Жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC That would be great.

Truth to marketing power. Good job. Claims are not facts and statistics can be used to deceive.

As a Statistician & golfer, my guess is that it does matter, but outside of the PGA Tour & golfers who have +6 handicaps, it won't show up because even scratch players don't hit the center of the clubface like PGA Tour guys do. I'm a scratch golfer. I had a set of Tom Lehman Taylormade C300 Miura-made cavity blades. The Rifle Frequency Matched 6.5 shaft on the 5 iron broke and I had it replaced - it ruined the set because the club was just different than the rest. Would I pay for Purring? No. If I was a Pro - absolutely Yes.

I want to do some testing to see if the spine aligning at different directions can influence toe up/toe down on irons I've tested (in a small batch) front and back position and found 4 yard differences in peak height with a driver, which helps me personally I spine align everything I build for customers *but don't charge any extra* ...Don't want them to think I'm doing it for financial gain ...I just want the most chance to create their best golf

@EFGMC

Жыл бұрын

180 degree changes in alignment will make no difference. Shaft "sides" are not individual points of the circumference, a side must be viewed as a plane that runs all the way through the shaft. A shaft installed at 12 o'clock will be the same as a shaft installed 180 degrees in the 6 o'clock position.

@FredzGolf

Жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC I value your opinion, much appreciated... I want to do some blind testing with pupils and see if there are any data trends :)

@EFGMC

Жыл бұрын

@@FredzGolf I would also check and make sure you are not picking up shaft lean in the hosel that could cause the changes in launch height.

@FredzGolf

Жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC ah good thinking :)

It all comes down to 2 simple words sir... Placebo effect. If you believe it's helping then it's helping you. The mind is a powerful thing my good sir so I say if u wanna spend the extra $$$ do it.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Or just give me the money and I can tell them that I cosmically aligned their clubs through the ether.

Would trackman numbers tell a different story?

I’ve had the opinion of taking that money and getting lessons. This process seems more psychological than anything else.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Seems to be about as effective as wearing magnetic socks or meditating under a triangular prism. 😁

Nice video and results are kind of expected. However, there is something missing. I've had one set of irons with pured shafts and the feeling was that there was no difference between clubs. The whole set felt the same vs. others, even premium sets, have not had the same effect. So the comparison should be pured set vs purposely faulty set.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Would also want to measure the other clubs to isolate differences. Were those shafts actually out of radial symmetry, were the static weights and swing weights correct?

Mid way through this video I have no idea what the results will be. Hope the pure is better but not sure average golfers will know.

If I played golf on tour, big time or small, as a professional earning a living then yes, I would look to take every advantage including having my clubs built precisely with zero tolerance. All 14. Puring would be just one part. I knew the better the golfer the more they would notice a difference here, but it's not massive, like installing a completely different (better) shaft. Like the idea of not telling anyone about the clubs before they hit balls. Their expectations were already too high.

What would happen if you took the spinning process and turned the spine so one club the way it was intended and the other 180° out. In theory one ball should go higher off one club than the other, that’s the test I’d like to see

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

You would really want to do it at 90 degrees if any. 180 from any point on a shaft is in the same bend plane and therefore gives the same bend results. A shaft will have the same stiffness measurement on either. The NBP (Natural Bend Point or Plane) which usually sits at 90 degrees from the stiffest plane should in theory give you the softest bend measurements.

MyGolfSpy wrote an article about Fujikura, who said their shafts don’t need to be Pured.

Shaft, Shmaft! I installed cheap-o True Temper Score Shafts in my Maltby TE Forged heads. Yes, I FLO'd them, but with those heads you can slap balls all over the face from toe to shank and your ball will still go straight!

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Those TE heads are solid!

This service should be free if you buy from club champion since they bought SST Pure… Obviously the Puring service depends on how good the quality of the shaft is. I have the feeling that QC is so good these days that it probably doesn’t make a enormous difference, rather more piece of mind.

Important question: for the shaft that was un-pured by putting it purposefully out of alignment, did you rotate the pured line 45-degrees or 90-degrees out of alignment? This is the key to the test, and you didn’t clarify it.

@EFGMC

4 ай бұрын

I don't remember the exact angle I used though pretty sure I say in the video. It was somewhere around 40d I think.

@jon4715

4 ай бұрын

@@EFGMC Thanks for that clarification. The reason I ask is that there are two angles of deflection…natural bend profile and the “spine”. Both of which would provide a consistent and accurate feel to the shaft. Whether they are perfectly 90d out of alignment, I’m not sure. Doing a FLO test to find the least harmonious angle would have been ideal in this situation. That said…it may not have any effect, and if it does, it may only affect only the highest tempo and most consistent strikers. But that’s kind of the theory behind it…two planes of FLO, one is the NBP and one is the “spine.”

@EFGMC

4 ай бұрын

@@jon4715 That's why I chose an angle that was neither.

Whelp Boys & Girls- I'm on my way to Patreon. 😍

When you say that you aligned one of the shafts on one of the heads 'as far as possible from the PURed alignment', how much (how many degrees) was it rotated in the hosel, compared to the shaft in the PURed orientation??

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

The PURE shaft was installed with the line set in the 12 o'clock or 12 / 6 orientation for the Pure test club. The other shaft was set at approximately at 4:30. Didn't want to use 9 o clock because some people believe that spines should be set in that 9 / 3 o'clock orientation so I made sure to not use either.

@richardkempton5802

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC If both shafts exhibited the same very small degree of asymmetry indicated on the analysis sheet you held up, I wouldn't expect the alignment in the clubhead to make much difference - hardly any, in fact, as you found. That doesn't mean that PUReing is a waste of time, because if a shaft happens to have a high degree of asymmetry - WHICH YOU WON'T KNOW UNLESS YOU CHECK IT - you could well end up with a 'problem' club. As a result, the main reason to PURe (or FLO) and align any shaft is purely defensive. The basic principle to bear in mind is that the greater degree of asymmetry, the longer the club and the lower the loft, the more important it becomes to PURe (or FLO) the shaft and ensure that it does not end up in the worst orientation - with the PURe plane @ 45º to the face - which is the one you used but probably without truly understanding why. It's not difficult to identify the PURe plane (as long as you DON'T use a bearing-type 'spinefinder'), but having found it, the question then becomes: What do you do with it?? SST and their licensees align the PURe plane parallel with the clubface, but many clubmakers align it rotated 90º, with the PURe plane perpendicular to the face. SST claim, as they would, that their alignment produces the best results, but many clubmakers (like me, although I'm now semi-retired) prefer to rotate the shaft 90º, although the argument about the 'best' orientation still persists. In my view, it's more of a 'feel' issue than anything else, because both undoubtedly alignments work with shafts that are sufficiently asymmetric to give rise to ball striking or consistency/accuracy issues if they end up in a 'bad' orientation in the clubhead. One of my customers absolutely DETESTS the PUREd alignment and can identify if a shaft is set in the PURed orientation or the 90º different FLOed alignment I almost always use, given a big enough 'spine', just by 'waggling' it. Other have a preference for the PURed alignment, so feel free to take your pick ... On the whole, steel shafts tend to be less asymmetric in terms of flex than graphite shafts, by virtue of the inherently more homogenous material from which they are made - the main problem with steel shafts is residual bend (they are not necessarily consistently straight). Graphite shafts are more likely to exhibit significant asymmetry, as a result of things like misaligned fibres & uneven wall thicknesses. When I first became aware of shaft 'spines' and potential alignment issues in the 1990s it was not uncommon to find shafts with a 'frequency delta' (the stiffness difference between what many still call the 'stiff' and 'soft' spines) of 10-12 cpm or more (about a full flex), with the occasional 'rogue' shaft having a frequency delta of up to ~20 cpm (~2 whole flexes) or possibly a bit more; if you didn't align those shafts properly in the clubhead, you would DEFINITELY have a 'problem' club. Manufacturing techniques have improved a lot in the interim, but even today you will STILL find rogue shafts, but you might be forgiven for assuming that if you buy a very expensive premium make & model, you would avoid the problem - but you would be wrong. Not that long ago, I reshafted a driver with a well-known make & model that typically retailed at ~£300+ (fitted). It turned out to have a frequency delta of ~16 cpm - so I could not risk installing it without FLOing it and aligning it appropriately.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardkempton5802 I get what you're saying but draw different conclusions from it. In my opinion any shaft that falls outside of 2% hard to soft side cpm measurement is just a bad shaft. PURE it, FLO it, do whatever you want to the orientation, none of that will in any way change that fact. Radial consistency is very important because the shaft does not bend in only one or two planes. If it did, then PUREing would make sense. The shaft bends and forward deflects while simultaneously rotating. The greatest portion of the bend stress comes somewhere in-between the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock position (12 o'clock being toe up bend) usually, so I could argue that having the spine in either 12:6 or 9:3 is actually the least ideal position. So my elevator pitch for all this would be, a good shaft is consistent all the way around regardless of how it's aligned. A bad shaft is a bad shaft and the only way to "fix" it, is use as a tomato stake.

@richardkempton5802

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC I'm happy with your suggested threshold of ~2%, say ~5cpm frequency delta, but to correct one of your statements, we're not talking about SIDES of a shaft here, but PLANES of oscillationn - and a plane is formed by two sides, not one. In rhe 1990s I was a member of a private clubmakers' web forum, with the likes of Dave Tutelman, and we pretty much exhausted the subject of shaft 'spines', how to find them and the effect of different alignments, but we also looked into a number of other clubmaking issues. If you've ever heard of a 'Neufinder', that was one of the things that came out of the forum. Given a big enough frequency delta (FD), it is actually possible to fit a shaft in such a way that it will pretty much ONLY produce a fade or a draw - i know that for a fact, because in the course of experimentation, I have built clubs that did precisely that in blind testing ... Believe it or not, a few clubmakers on the forum would actually seek out what they called 'super shafts' which had exceptionally high FDs, preferably 20 cpm or more, because they reckoned that they would perform better than a 'spineless' shaft. I was never in that camp, but I would agree that it is possible pretty much to neutralise even a 15+ cpm FD. The whole rationale behind the USGA's decision to approve the 'PUReing' process was that, provided that the shaft was installed in a 'neutral' orientation, it would allow an asymmetric shaft to be installed in such a way that it played '.. AS IF IT WERE SYMMETRICAL' (the rules of golf state a shaft should exhibit equal bending & twisting properties in all directions, which in practice they almost never do (depending on the thresholds you set, of course).

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardkempton5802 Sorry, should not have used term "sides" when referring to stiffest and softest planes. Slip of the type. I've had to explain the plane idea to dozens of people asking about aligning shafts 180 degrees etc. I admit however that I am out of my depth when it comes to these super nunchuck style shafts as I think by the time I got into club building, these way off shafts were on the way out between Grafalloy, UST Proforce line and Aldila NVs stepping up quality in big ways at affordable price points.

The claims are that it makes about on average a 2 yard consistency improvement in left and right dispersion and a 3 to 7 yard distance gain. 2 yards left or right isn't something you'll really notice until you're a scratch golfer. Not many mid handicappers throwing darts consistent enough for a 2 yard improvement to matter.

@EFGMC

Жыл бұрын

I am wrapping up a video where I do a direct test between a PUREd and not shaft with all the data. Will be out next week.

Why not hit shots on a simulator (e.g. Trackman) and just the real data?

What is puring your clubs

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Shaft alignment. Idea is positioning the shaft in one certain orientation will improve your distance and dispersion. Have not ever found this to be the case however.

Omg. You almost did what I have been waiting for so long. 😄 If you had used a trackman or quad with all those shots with all those players we could have had a first propper test if puring is worth it or not. But. Without launch monitor data this thest is (sorry to say) useless. No player will be able to detect small performance difference with shafts. Maybe Tiger could, but basically no one else could. I would love to see this test redone with Quad. And with both (7 iron steel and driver graphite saft). Otherwise I am still going to have to make this agrument and stick with it: "Puring my saft can't atleast hurt my game, so I am gonna do it". 😊 But. If you redo this with launch monitor data (and turn not pured shafts 90°) and there are no difference at all, I'll send you some flowers and a gift card 🙂

@farkus91

2 жыл бұрын

Great video. I've always thought that if puring made so much of a difference, then club manufacturers would do it as part of their normal build process. One question, how much time does it take to pure a shaft?

@MrPanukkio

2 жыл бұрын

@@farkus91 With that logic you could also argue that if premium shafts made a much a difference wouldn't all manufacturers use premium shafts? The answer is simple. Majority of golfers will not be able to tell the difference so why bother. That it why Rory and rest of the big boys were playing Ventus Velocore shafts in Tour and Taylormade sold same time a lots of identical looking Ventus shafts made out of cheap materials and produced in Asia. Only those people who are willing to invest more money to see even marginal gains are buying upgraded shafts and paying for Puring.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Fair enough. I will keep trying to win you over on this one. Have started looking into procuring a higher end LM to start collecting data on various topics.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Takes 2-3 minutes for the machine to go though all the measurements.

@MrPanukkio

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC I'll be waiting 🥰🙏

So if a fitter says "you should get the shafts pure / spinning / flo /etc " you now know who he/she is working for and maybe you just wasted $100 plus . Next up is frequency testing shafts ,with clear markings (5 ,5.5 , 6 or dots ) worth it ? Here is why it doesn't work , pulled OEM shaft (282 reading) new shaft reading 285 (you need 10 to make diff on the scale) but the new shaft was way better in feel and test numbers on trackman.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Right. Frequency matching is unnecessary. It's completely dependent on head weight and shaft length. Assuming you have those correct, flex will be consistent. If you don't, you've got bigger issues!

8-8

Don't even need to watch the video to the end to say no difference. Of course some clubmakers pitch "puring" for $30 a pop since it's basically pure 100% profit. May be pros who are so consistent with their swing and ball striking can tell the difference (if there's difference to begin with.) Everyone else is wasting money.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Not even the pros for the most part. They can be misled just as easily as the rest of us. Sometimes more easily.

I don’t think it’s ppl telling you one is better than the other I think it’s launch monitor data via dispersion and strike point. (Not that I’m sure at all that pureing works or not) but I don’t think ppl can tell you by watching ball flight on a range.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Some can't but some for sure can. The fact that these results jived pretty much with what TXG did in their test with LM data but just one golfer, I think tells the tale pretty well. I just disagreed with their conclusions.

No shafts are the same. Every shaft is different and yes you can gain in all areas just by the change in cpms

It doesn't hurt.... My wallet begs to differ haha.

Enjoyed the video. Think the pureing option is only good for self issue doubts. Not a lot of physical difference to the performance of the clubs, but psychologically, it does matter. It is operator error. If you can afford it, get it done. Pureing shafts is more expensive in the UK by the way 👎👎

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. I have a plan for an upcoming video where I test that psychological benefit vs physical benefit. How much does PURE run across the pond?

@7417cd

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC When I had my shafts pured by a well respected company in SE England, the cost was £45 per shaft. Not sure what equates to in US $. Look forward to your video. Thanks Chris

If you can get these on an iron Byron would he the best "most scientifical"... but yea puring spine alignment... unless your tiger woods in the 2000s you won't notice a difference

thank you. I;m telling my local pro.....pureing shafts is a myth!

TXG has left the chat

What about professional players?

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Did not have any technical pros, though we did have numerous ex college players including at the D1 level.

Incomplete. What about graphite shafts?

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

The reason that the entire process shows no improvement with steel shafts will also carry over into graphite. In either case the results would be similar.

@bernardseltzer9068

2 жыл бұрын

@@EFGMC Have reshafted many woods in 20 years. Due to the inherent imbalance in graphite shafts I found that puring or spine aligning significantly improves the performance. Not with steel shafts due to more consistent construction process.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@bernardseltzer9068 A bad shaft will continue to be a bad shaft whether or not it has been PUREd. Aligning the hard side of a shaft may work for some golfers, but based on mechanics, timing, and swing sequencing, may have a negative affect for others. This also assumes the shaft was so poorly constructed in the beginning as to have a significant hard to soft side stiffness imbalance.

@bernardseltzer9068

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your feedback.

why do you think the tour pros get theirs pured? club fitter knows better do they?? don't thinks so.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

That number is smaller than you think. Also don't assume that because they are pros, they can't be convinced of things that just aren't true.

@dashgerhg8772

Жыл бұрын

​@MOBILE CLUBMAKER GOLF if you play golf all day everyday you know it better than the ones repair the shafts for social golfers everyday. Don't mean to be rude but even I noticed it when I was playing 5 days a week.

the results showed me that IF it made any difference, you'd have to be a scratch golfer to notice. and possibly a waste for the other 85% of golfers

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

That scratch group could easily have been 3 to 3. They could more often tell that there was a difference however that didn't mean that the Pure version ended up better.

I loved your test until you left it to a feel with the golfers. If you did this with both shafts on trackman and looked at the grouping, I would have taken this more serious.

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Trust me, you should take it more seriously. If you need data Mr. Shortgame and I did a video with these same two clubs. It’s on his channel about two months back. He included the data in the comments section.

Waste of cash

only thing i would add. is that club builders and kbs have said their shaft have limited benefit from puring. no idea why. probably because the are butt stiff vs dg or even nippon softer butt.

Confirmed scam

Dudes wearing masks at an outdoor driving range, dafuq is wrong with people

Your video is misleading. It's consistently you looking for. You notice a lot more to it don't be dishonest. I will stop watching you because of this

@EFGMC

2 жыл бұрын

Really. Where am I being dishonest? Please provide some specific examples so that I can address them.

@SupeDefy

2 жыл бұрын

If puring made that much of a difference, why aren't all club manufacturers doing it for all their clubs? If puring can make their clubs even 1% more consistent, they would be all over it.

@royahoy8655

2 жыл бұрын

I have no idea what your even saying? Can you please explain what the Dickens your rambling on about?

@MrPanukkio

2 жыл бұрын

@@SupeDefy That is absolutely false. They would not do if for 1% difference. It would take time and cost money. Manufacturers are not usually even using propper shafts in their bulk lineup. And manufacturers do pure their Tour players shafts.

@SupeDefy

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrPanukkio Absolutely not false. Most shafts are manufactured in countries where labor is very cheap. Machinery that can pure shafts in bulk would be built. Also companies like Taylormade can upsell it as an option (if not standard) and turn it into a profit center. That is, if they can empirically show puring truly does make a difference for 99.9% of golfers. Has pured shafts help improve scoring for these pros?