Do a video explaining the crush washers vs shims

@cevant1

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, i don’t know much about the suppression of a firearm. Any tips are appreciated.

@Grabbagar670

3 жыл бұрын

When it comes to muzzle devices, a crush washer allows you to torque a compensator down while allowing the slots in the compensator to be properly aligned. You will need a crush washer for A2 "birdcage" compensator, because it is supposed to be torqued so that the center slot is top dead center. It's important that you do not over torque crush washers, because if you loosen the compensator, the washer is already deformed, so you will need a new washer. Shims are useful when bore alignment is important. A crush washer won't necessarily allow you to adjust bore alignment, and as you can probably imagine, bore alignment is more important in suppressors than with compensators. Dont want to go shooting a hole in your ~$1500 suppressor that you waited like 9 months for.

@BillRodgers2

3 жыл бұрын

@@Grabbagar670 thanks

Suppressors can and do change POI on some guns. Not every suppressor and not every gun. Shift in POI is NOT the same as loss of accuracy

@Velshard

3 жыл бұрын

I have a .22 that consistently shifts its POI down 4 inches at 100 yards when it has a can on it. I've checked the can over and over for baffle strikes or some other issue, nothing. It is literally a mystery to everyone that has witnessed it.

@OTG414

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t confuse accuracy with precision. A change in POI is a change in “accuracy”. You can improve accuracy by adjusting the sights. “Precision” describes how reliably a rifle will shoot in the same place (aka: group size). Precision is a function of the quality of the rifle, it’s sights, and the quality of the load development for that rifle.

@bobhaehn5470

3 жыл бұрын

@@OTG414 clip in the 40's and magazine in the 21st. SEMANTICS

@OTG414

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobhaehn5470 it’s not semantics. The word “clip” is used incorrectly today, it wasn’t in the 40’s. Back then, a “clip” was short for “stripper clip” which was used to reload the M1 Garand rifle. The M1 carbine and the Thompson submachine gun both used “magazines”. People who roll their eyes and say “oh it’s just semantics” as a way to save face when they use a word incorrectly are using that term incorrectly as well. The word “semantics” is a term used to describe two different words that mean the same thing. Accuracy and precision are two words that mean completely different things. “Clips” and “magazines” are also completely different. So, it’s actually not semantics at all. If you don’t understand the meaning of the words you use, and someone politely explains it to you, maybe just try to take it as a learning experience.

@bobhaehn5470

3 жыл бұрын

@@OTG414 you just proved my point. Which is no application in a real world scenario. Shut up and go away Hillary

In video games suppressors make you less accurate as to counteract the advantage of the non-audible shots in the gameI. I think this is where a lot of the confusion comes from

@goldenblacklee

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, video games which are known to be pretty much factual in their implementations of firearms.

@The10thManRules

3 жыл бұрын

In Battlefield 4, there is no loss of accuracy per se for a suppressed rifle, but they program a distinct loss of velocity (opposite of reality) which reduces their ability to engage threats past a certain distance as a way to balance various weapons. Otherwise everyone would run a semiautomatic suppressed Mk11 or similar. In hard-core mode, use of a suppressor keeps you from being seen on the map. They gotta balance it all to make it fair.

@ezrabrooks12

3 жыл бұрын

audikid89//// Video games and HOLLYWOOD Movies are all FANTASY!!!!!!! GUNS,CARS AND REAL LIFE AREN'T THE SAME AS THE MADE UP HOLLYWOOD VIDEO GAME BULLSHIT,THATS ONLY FOR BOX OFFICE DRAW AND 2 SELL MORE PRODUCT!!!!!!!!!!!!

@The10thManRules

3 жыл бұрын

@@ezrabrooks12 Says someone probably with more real tacticool guns and accessories than real relationships. The gun industry is marketing you a fantasy too. This is why a $12k pair of white phos PSV15 NVGs are available for civilians to purchase.

@Lv-sl3rm

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah purely a gameplay thing for balance reasons. Not all games do that obviously (looks at ARMA III and Insurgency Sandstorm) but you gotta balance the game somehow.

I think a lot of people don’t understand the difference between accuracy and impact shift

@parsecboy4954

3 жыл бұрын

Came here to say that

@gregcranford8716

3 жыл бұрын

Lotta people confuse point of impact with accuracy... as long as the POI is consistent then it is still an accurate rifle. Some suppressors will alter the POI. That may be where the confusion is coming from.

@michaelhill6451

2 ай бұрын

Technically, a change in point of impact is a change in accuracy. The tightness of the group should technically be called precision.

I think this one comes from the days when the early pistol suppressors used wipes, and their contact with the bullet did have an effect.

I was surprised you guys didn't mention adding a suppressor is likely going to change your point of impact, and that part of responsible gun ownership is to shoot your rifle after ANY change to your muzzle device or change in ammo selection to verify your zero, and re-zero as needed. I can just picture some smooth-brain who put on a can and switched to sub-sonic rounds whining about how now his gun doesn't shoot straight.

@peteralexben

3 жыл бұрын

if the harmonics are changed it can give larger groups

@Gottaculat

3 жыл бұрын

@@peteralexben True that. I have a Enfield No.4 Mk1 that someone sporterized (barrel is intact, stock was sporterized), and a sporter stock throws off the harmonics because the No.4 was meant to have the fore end of the stock place about 6 pounds of pressure to the underside of the barrel. By removing this, it affects accuracy since the harmonics are disrupted. Now, one could argue this makes the gun less accurate. Well, yes and no. Yes, if you just run factory ammo, you're gonna get about 3" @100 yards. HOWEVER, if you understand the harmonics have changed, you can do like I do and hand load rounds tailored specifically for that rifle. In my case, my hand loads shrank my group from 3 MOA to 0.9 MOA (0.9" @100 yards). So outright saying changing barrel harmonics makes a gun less accurate is a half-truth. Yes, less accurate if you don't use the correct ammo, and no if you do use the correct ammo. I haven't had the pleasure of owning a suppressor yet, but when I do get one, I will no doubt make sure not only to verify my zero, but also either find factory ammo that runs well, or handload to ensure my gun is well tuned.

I think some of that, which includes really any muzzle devices, is they change the barrel harmonics, and some people don't know that.

@jarekmace1536

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Shotgun News, I believe it was< did an article a few years ago about accuracy and bayonets. They used post-WW1 era bolt action rifles and their assigned bayonets. The Lee-Enfield was actually MORE accurate with the nearly 24" blade acting like a harmonic balancer/ tuning fork.

@Argentum88

3 жыл бұрын

I was about to say that. Having a huge chunk of metal attached to the end of your gun is definitely capable of changing harmonics and thus changing your accuracy; especially if you have a tailored hand load. But it shouldn't be too much. A lot of it depends on the host gun.

@H.R.6688

3 жыл бұрын

@@Argentum88 yeah from what I've seen, it can change the poi several inches, still grouping, but it definitely changes. Johnny's reloading bench actually tested this a while back.

@johnking8557

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly HR. I have a custom built 1000 yard bench rest rifle in 6Dasher. BAT 3 lug action, Bartlin barrel, Jewell 2oz trigger Shehane stock... left the muzzle brake off during some testing and my groups tightened up. Went on to win a state championship that year shooting it in both the light and heavy gun class. The best components and a superior gunsmith are not the only ingredients to an accurate rifle. Load development to maximize barrel harmonics is crucial.

@Sparky-rd5gr

3 жыл бұрын

@@jarekmace1536 what if they had the guts of the dude they just stabbed hanging off the end of it?

In my experience, oil filters neither help nor hinder accuracy in my AR. Lol

Suppressors can affect (hurt or help) group size and shot placement for a few reasons. 1) changes to barrel harmonics, 2) barrel droop, 3) increased muzzle velocity. If the shooter gathers ballistic data without the suppressor, then takes the rifle out to shoot long range suppressed, they may be off on their ballistic solutions because the bullet is exiting the gun faster than what they chronoed it at without the suppressor. They will be impcting higher than anticipated when using the suppressor. This is user error. The weight of the suppressor will flex the muzzle downwards slightly due to the extra weight on the muzzle. This is intensified with heavier cans, longer barrels, and lighter barrel profiles. With a lightweight can, heavy and short barrel, it might not be noticable. With a heavy can on a longer barrel, the effect will be that the rounds will impact lower. This POI shift will be noticable at your zero range, but past your zero range the POI difference will decrease a little from your unsuppressed zero because the bullet is also traveling faster with the suppressor, so the trajectory will be a little flatter. Most of these problems can be avoided if you just gather your ballistic data and do your zero with the suppressor on and then just leave it on when shooting. The only difference you have to account for at this point is the harmonic difference. If you tailor your loads for the harmonics of the suppressor attached, then it becomes a nonissue

@onionhead5780

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t bet my life on it but I think barrel droop is mainly limited to an air rifle problem. Unless you were furring to barrel flex and it was just a miscommunication in our terminology. I don’t want to discredit your statement because it seems you did your research and you know what you’re talking about. I don’t claim to know everything but I’ve never encountered a modern cartridge rifle having barrel droop during my 22 years as a gunsmith. For some ungodly reason because I’m a gunsmith my customers think I’m an expert in air guns as well. I’ve had customers bring air rifles in with an accuracy issue before and it was indeed what they refer to in the air gun industry as barrel droop. I think it occurs on air guns due to design flaws, inexpensive inferior manufacturing and or metallurgy quality to keep the cost affordable. Shoot safe and shoot straight. 👍

@abnr1983

3 жыл бұрын

Like Onion Head, I really never bought into that barrel harmonics or barrel droop. My reason for that is the bullet leaves the muzzle faster than what barrel harmonics (harmonics is the wave or the oscillation of the barrel) can do to it. In my opinion, it has more to do with the pressure that you're introducing inside the weapon which in turn can change muzzle velocity. That, I think, is the reason for the POI change in a gun with a suppressor.

@jamesaldridge2431

3 жыл бұрын

"Barrel droop" in this case is the added weight of the suppressor slightly bending the barrel downwards with gravity so that the bore points at a point lower than the line of sight at the zero distance

@jamesaldridge2431

3 жыл бұрын

Either way, what Im talking about is weight pulling the barrel off the original axis.

@jfaria

3 жыл бұрын

@@abnr1983 Sound travels at more than 3.000 m/s (> 10.000 fps) in steel, wouldn't it start moving before the bullet gets to the muzzle?

Outstanding video friend. Great job. Thanks a lot. SC Navy vet.

I’m only here because the video was posted on my birthday. Thought I’d take it as a sign or something. Really informative stuff.

Back in the day when manufacturers tolerances we’re not as good there were issues. POA is not always the same either. Nowadays it’s pretty good or even better

In some cases they help more. Look at the SCAR 20s.

@Rowrin

3 жыл бұрын

SCARs are a weird example though. You have to use specific suppressors approved by FN that bleed off / don't produce excess back pressure. Otherwise with even light use you risk breaking the bolt assembly. More than a handful of videos out there where people thought they'd use an unapproved suppressor for several range sessions only to find their bolt assembly shattered.

@default0111

3 жыл бұрын

What?

@xarchlight2779

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rowrin The fn approved suppressor is made for military only the next best thing without modifying the gas jets is the Socom RC2 no modifying

@Rowrin

3 жыл бұрын

@@xarchlight2779 There is an official FN suppressor made for the military. But FN has a list of supported commercial suppressors that they recommend you use to prevent damage to your gun. Just search youtube for "FN SCAR Broken bolt supressor" and you'll find videos of owners describing what happened.

@xarchlight2779

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rowrin I know I own a Surefire Socom RC2 on my scar 17 also I am in a fn scar group on Facebook and people talk about what cans to use all the time, also FN doesn’t recommend a suppressor at all, it voids their warranty says it right in the manual

Great video.. I would have to say across the board, no suppressors do not decrease accuracy, in fact often time it will tighten groups up. That being said I have rifles that "do not like to be suppressed" for a certain load. Example, I have a Sig Cross in 6.5 CM that will shoot lights out with my pet load with suppressor mount installed but once I put the suppressor on groups open up by as much as 300%. Other rifles with the very same suppressor will tighten up as much as 100%.. So as a general rule no they do not but some of my rifles do not work well with them.. Too much weight out front? Screws up harmonics? The range myth I love to hear is.. " you know suppressors make your round slow down .. right"

@rbm6184

3 жыл бұрын

Florida HD Shooter I wouldn't say "screws up" but changing muzzle weight can change point of aim/impact with the harmonics.

@floridahdshooter

3 жыл бұрын

@@rbm6184 I expect a POI shift normally lower.. but with this rifle/can I went from .34 MOA to 3.12 MOA with my pet Handload..

@rohlfing63

2 жыл бұрын

A suppressor adds mass, and can certainly affect accuracy depending on the amount of mass and the stiffness of the barrel. The stiffer the barrel and the lighter the can, the less likely you are to see an impact on accuracy. Likewise, with the suppressor you should be able to develop a pet load that brings back any of the accuracy lost, although there still may be a poi change to account for.

Never disappoints!

I'd like to see a no BS assessment of barrel stabilizing struts, like the ones that are popular on Mini 14 rifles

Outstanding!

To be fair, the sr25 suppressor induces inconsistent POI shifts after the suppressor and barrel warms up. The gate mount isn’t the issue, the barrel tip that mates with a “shoulder” inside the suppressor loosens up as the metal expands. Causing it to shift by 2 sometimes 4 MOA at 100yds. Can be witnessed in under 12 rounds over the course of 5 min. The m110 fixed this greatly with the use of the large flash hider. But yes compared to a lot of newer suppressor mount ups they are pretty consistent in their POI shift once attached.

People who say this usually do not own a supressor.

I think it’s important to note there can be a point of aim shift. That’s why you see guys mark the top of their caps with adjustments like “supp up1 r3” etc

Great vid guys! I think there's a lot of misconceptions and confusion about suppressors. Doesn't a can change your point of impact vs. using just a muzzle device? I would love to see more reliable info from you guys about suppressors, there's so much to learn about like wet vs. dry or that they cause increased dwell time NOT back pressure. We need a reliable source like you guys to clear up these details!

@mikesanservino8306

2 жыл бұрын

There is a whole science around cans (suppressors). Here are some facts: The speed of sound is determined by atmospheric density, air temperature and humidity so it can vary locally throughout the day depending upon these variables. Suppressors (outside of a VERY FEW HIGHLY SPECIALIZED WEAPONS PLATFORMS like the HK MP5SD) DO NOT SLOW THE BULLETS DOWN, therefore a supersonic bullet will remain supersonic and therefore the sound of that round cracking the sound barrier will be heard. A suppressor slows and cools the gases coming out of the muzzle end, thereby suppressing that sound component. If the firearm has a locked action such as a bolt, lever, slide/pump or break action, these platforms will be quieter than a suppressor equipped semi auto. Some gases will escape from the receiver (referred to as receiver pop) and this, combined with the sound of the action itself will add to any sound signature. The diameter/metallurgy/length/temperature (all affecting the stiffness) of the barrel, muzzle crown damage/design, cartridges used (bullet weights, powder burn rates, rifling twist rates), weight of the suppressor, repeatability of the mount of the can, and the location of the can on the muzzle threads, combined with the suppressor design (including materials, baffles, baffle chambers, endcaps) ALL play a part in inflating barrel harmonics and as such the precision of the firearm/suppressor combination. As for wet/dry cans, the heat from the escaping gases from the muzzle, will flash the ablative material (water, grease, etc) thereby cooling the gases even more than the baffle/monocore design, thereby often reducing the can signature by 2-3 dB at times. Not all cans will work when used with an ablative substance. All of these variables are in play when discussing suppressor performance on a particular firearm platform on any given day, at any given location. (I am the marketing director at GSL Technology (gsltechnology.com), an engineering driven, no hype suppressor manufacturer with over 35 years of suppressor design and manufacturing.)

I cannot speak to all suppressors, but the suppressors used on the m40 series rifle absolutely opened up the groups. The guns ran .7 moa and under at 300 yards without a suppressor and muzzle break. With the muzzle break and suppressor mounted they opened up to 1 moa consistently. That may have been due to the mounting method involving the break as an intermediary though.

In Vietnam extensive studies were made shooting long range with and without suppression. Using dedicated, specific rounds for each rifle, findings proved consistently tighter groupings with the use of the suppressors.

I'm a 91F in the army. My unit has snipers, and the snipers have AAC QD suppressors. Had a bunch of snipers who wouldn't properly maintain their suppressors, and would never remove them for cleaning. The argument they make is that removing the suppressors changes the zero. They are only half-right of course. Removing a suppressor typically shifts the point of impact up, but that's only because the 1.5lbs of metal you had hanging off the end of your barrel is no longer there. Putting it back on brings the zero back. The effect of not cleaning the suppressor is that it could foul and not suppress as well. The serious problem that happens (especially with QD suppressors) is that the retaining latch jams up and may not secure itself properly. We see bullet holes in suppressors from time to time. Other than that, suppressors don't negatively affect accuracy at all.

The M-14 into M21 had some problems with the Flash suppressors not being concentric all the Match rifles were reamed true to bore. The First M21 batch took a bit to get the suppressor mount true once they knew what to do no more problems.

For most rifles, a suppressor won’t hurt anything. The goal of a Benchrest crown is 1/10,000” or less of runout. Suppressors don’t meet this standard, IBS, NBRSA, UBR, ARA no suppressors found. Now day’s most top shooters Centerfire and Rimfire are sporting barrel tuners a device that usually occupies the same space as a suppressor.

I did not know that about the crush was her when using a quick disconnect break like the ASR. Guess I'll be adjusting that.

Wouldn't rubber wipes suppressors reduce accuracy, since there is friction between the wipes and the bullet, at least for the first few shots?

I think it will take comedy from Sweden to make any of those two to smile even a tiny bit.

I always thought that a suppressor could affect a rifle's accuracy, not so much as a suppressor but as a tuner. Any time you add any mass to the barrel you affect its harmonics, affecting it accuracy.

@bnscholet911

2 жыл бұрын

Accuracy is different than poi shift. 🤙

@rcflyerbob

2 жыл бұрын

@@bnscholet911 Yes, but if you alter barrel harmonics without changing your ammo in any way then you will most likely change accuracy, POI and precision.

Interesting. TY. Having never fired a suppressor-equipped firearm I’ll take the word of 2 experts. Gentlemen, could you please do a presentation on a somewhat related question: Does firing a military rifle, especially the legendary M1 Garand, with a bayonet attached, affect accuracy? With this question, I’ve read the answer can sometimes be “Yes,” having something to do with barrel harmonics. But I’m not an expert and don’t know. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks again.

THANKS

Two cups? Check Calebs hair? On point Myth? Busted!

You mention for AR guys not to use a crush washer when attaching a suppressor, and to opt for shims instead, but you don't explain why. Can you explain please? Does this only apply to the AR platforms? If so, why does it only apply to AR platforms?

There are two types of suppressors: ones with symmetrical internals and ones with asymmetrical internals. Asymmetrical internals induce yaw which decreases the ballistics coefficient. If you're shooting a gas gun to get your yay-yay's off then you're probably not concerned but if you're shooting a bolt gun at long range targets with variable distance and dialing hold based on your ballistics calculator and a Litz measured BC then you may be surprised.

It shifts point of impact! (Answered Pre video)

It's common to see in video games like COD etc... That a suppressor will lower the fps, ballistics,etc... Of a firearm. This would make a good video. Actually yall could do a few using common video game myths and logic.

@rbm6184

3 жыл бұрын

Kevin Suggs Um. No. Old suppressors might have decreased muzzle velocity as they were not as efficient but new modern suppressors actually can slightly increase muzzle velocity. As long as like they said here that everything is aligned and trued up.

@kevinsuggs1

3 жыл бұрын

@@rbm6184 Yeah I know this. But its such a common myth in games that it would make a great video. I thought it was true when I was a kid because of games.

@rockyhooks3372

3 жыл бұрын

@@rbm6184 Um. Yes. Actually. Kevin is on to something here. And those video games with suppressors are made in modern times. Why you gotta bash someone’s good idea?

@rbm6184

3 жыл бұрын

@@rockyhooks3372 Not bashing anybody. Old cans were not efficient and there was loss of muzzle velocity but new modern cans actually can slightly increase muzzle velocity. Just reinforcing what he already said. No only that but my comment was for him. Not you.

I've always wondered about a suppressors effects on a tilting-barrel pistol

There is a whole science around cans (suppressors). Here are some facts: The speed of sound is determined by atmospheric density, air temperature and humidity so it can vary locally throughout the day depending upon these variables. Suppressors (outside of a VERY FEW HIGHLY SPECIALIZED WEAPONS PLATFORMS like the HK MP5SD) DO NOT SLOW THE BULLETS DOWN, therefore a supersonic bullet will remain supersonic and therefore the sound of that round cracking the sound barrier will be heard. A suppressor slows and cools the gases coming out of the muzzle end, thereby suppressing that sound component. If the firearm has a locked action such as a bolt, lever, slide/pump or break action, these platforms will be quieter than a suppressor equipped semi auto. Some gases will escape from the receiver (referred to as receiver pop) and this, combined with the sound of the action itself will add to any sound signature. The diameter/metallurgy/length/temperature (all affecting the stiffness) of the barrel, muzzle crown damage/design, cartridges used (bullet weights, powder burn rates, rifling twist rates), weight of the suppressor, repeatability of the mount of the can, and the location of the can on the muzzle threads, combined with the suppressor design (including materials, baffles, baffle chambers, endcaps) ALL play a part in inflating barrel harmonics and as such the precision of the firearm/suppressor combination. As for wet/dry cans, the heat from the escaping gases from the muzzle, will flash the ablative material (water, grease, etc) thereby cooling the gases even more than the baffle/monocore design, thereby often reducing the can signature by 2-3 dB at times. Not all cans will work when used with an ablative substance. All of these variables are in play when discussing suppressor performance on a particular firearm platform on any given day, at any given location. (I am the marketing director at GSL Technology (gsltechnology.com), an engineering driven, no hype suppressor manufacturer with over 35 years of suppressor design and manufacturing.) Suppressors can and often do, aide in shrinking group sizes due to the more uniform gas impact on the projectile as it leaves the endcap of the can. Another factor in accuracy is more shooter induced, and again, suppressors help in this by reducing perceived recoil and sound signature, both of which can cause the shooter to anticipate a shot, and therefore jerk the trigger a bit. By making the firearm less "obnoxious" (for lack of a better term) to shoot, the operator is less likely to jerk the trigger. Point of Aim/Point of Impact (POA/POI) can happen, (again that goes back to barrel harmonics and other factors listed above) but the POI/POA doesn't really matter as long as it is CONSISTENT. If consistent, the firearm should be re-zeroed with the can attached shooting the preferred load.

I can't remember which Call of Duty game it was, but the suppressor attachment reduced accuracy. I'm guessing that's where this myth came from.

@ezrabrooks12

3 жыл бұрын

roul3688//// WTF!!!!!! WE'RE USING MADE UP VIDEO GAME CRAP FOR OUR SHOOTING DATA NOW??????? WTF PEOPLE???????? TAKE YOU ASS OUT TO A RANGE AND GET SOME REAL TRAINING!!!!!!!

@harblz57

3 жыл бұрын

@@ezrabrooks12 Don't attack *him!" He didn't say that he believed it. He was simply reporting a situation where the common misconception may have originated. STOP trying to pick a fight.

@JW--dc8ri

3 жыл бұрын

@@ezrabrooks12 take your pills old man. And get your sticky fingers off the caps lock

@Orcinus24x5

3 жыл бұрын

Yep. I was told on Reddit that a muzzle brake will severely reduce my precision rifle's accuracy. I just shook my head.

@steakwilliams4448

3 жыл бұрын

They said it comes from bad threading jobs, on the barrel. But no doubt some people believe this because of call of duty

Can you guys do a smythbuster for mounting the front flip up irons backwards. I have heard multiple sides to it and checked the forums but I'm still unsure.

Good Video.

I don’t disagree but I also don’t entirely agree. Remember, when you hang a heavy object off the end of your barrel, you must account for the change in barrel harmonics. If you do your load development without the suppressor and then add the suppressor after-the-fact, your groups will absolutely change. It may not actually change your POI (aka: accuracy), but it will have an effect on your group size (aka: precision). If you do your load development with your suppressor (or whatever muzzle device you intend to use) mounted, you will likely not see a measurable difference. Those who say that suppressors improve accuracy are also coming to a false conclusion. In some cases, adding weight to the end of a barrel may make a load shoot better in a given rifle. This is pure luck if it does, of course. This is because the barrel harmonics were “accidentally” improved by adding weight to the end of the barrel. These people are shooting factory ammo or don’t do proper load development in the first place and instead they just load for velocity. Every rifle barrel has an “accuracy node”. The load must be tuned to find that accuracy node in order for that barrel to realize its potential. In 22lr competitions, most top shooters use a “tuner” (a adjustable weight) on the end of their barrel to help optimize their barrel’s harmonics. This is because most shooters cannot hand-load for rimfire cartridges. Adding a suppressor can accomplish the same effect but it’s “hit-or-miss” because the mass added by a suppressor is not adjustable like a tuner. That is why some people experience improved groups while others experience worsening group size when adding a suppressor.

@davidhudson1290

2 жыл бұрын

Very well stated. Thank you for shooting straight.😁

I have a 7mm REM Mag 168vld. Before my suppressor the bullet would travel through the animal but now with the suppressor the bullet blows up its internal but no exit hole? Why is that?

Coming in hot on a Tuesday with the fresh cut

As you alluded to, suppressors can negatively affect accuracy if they are not aligned properly, or for some reason the round contacts them as it exits the barrel. I would suspect that a poorly designed suppressor could also have a negative effect, but any decent quality properly mounted suppressor should not.

My favorite part of this series is the visible concern and confusion that Steve and Caleb express at almost every question lol.

Caleb, your hair looks extra spiffy today brother!

@CalebSavant

3 жыл бұрын

Merci beaucoup

@RaspingPompano2

3 жыл бұрын

His hair is always perfect..

@vintageguitarz1

3 жыл бұрын

Must be a new can of 20w 100 diesel oil.

It will definitely change point of impact!

Do they extend range on rifles or hand guns?

👍 good to know.

If you zero your firearm without the supressor you may end up with a different point of impact when you attach the supressor. How much shift (if any) depends on what kind of gun, how thick your barrel is, how heavy the suppressor is, caliber, distance being shot, and maybe other factors as well. If you intend to shoot almost exclusively with the supressor then zero with the supressor on and you won't have any problems. Otherwise just practice enough with the supressor to know what difference, if any, there is.

Some may confuse the point of impact shift with a decrease in accuracy.

@OTG414

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t confuse accuracy with precision. A change in POI is a change in “accuracy”. You can improve accuracy by adjusting the sights. “Precision” describes how reliably a rifle will shoot in the same place (aka: group size). Precision is a function of the quality of the rifle, it’s sights, and the quality of the load development for that rifle.

My experience had been really good with suppressors as the fellows stated barrel must be properly thread in accordance with bore Center ! Then make sure the stop face it true to barrel center then follow manufacturers torque spec when installing suppressor adapters and or suppressor its self, a well designed and built suppressor has helped with accuracy ,, but copies n cheap knockoff are totally different n this is where I believe is the problem n cause of myth,, working with some manufacturers we tried all kinds things testing for suppressors the quietist was 12 inch long 4 1/2 diameter lawn mower muffler packed lightly with steel wool not practical but works good

I have a Sig cross 308, suppressed it shoots 175gr FGMM 2” groups @ 100 yards, bare muzzle it shoots those same rounds 3/4 MOA

Even with less than perfect alignment the worst issue I've had is POI shift, not reduced accuracy.

I've found that they do not decrease accuracy, in fact, many were improved.

Can the weight of a muzzle brake improve accuracy.

AK rifles are not built for any suppressors because barrels on them are not centred. It can affect accuracy if you put muzzle brake, muzzle extension or suppressor on AK if attachment device is not specifically built for AK.

What rifle is on the bench in front of them?

Like mounting a bayonet, the point of aim shifts.

@rbm6184

3 жыл бұрын

CherryBacon Astro Yes. This. The added weight makes a difference in barrel harmonics.

Always informative. I thought they did interfere with performance. On another note I can’t resist wishing I could hide a can of WD 40 in the back ground.

Shift point of impact vs reduce accuracy

@Orcinus24x5

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, these terms are mutually exclusive.

If you bullet hits you suppressor it might affect accuracy. before modern machining there were more imperfections and flaws but that has been greatly reduced but extended use or a hard bump or even a blockage in the suppressor components from heat or stress

My muzzle brake came with a crush washer. Should I remove the washer??

@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen

3 жыл бұрын

Muzzle brakes are OK with crush washers. Silencers are not.

You guys need to talk to the NRL22 shooters about suppressors and accuracy.

It does change the harmonic node . Maybe sometimes may change your groups and may sometimes bad ammo group may be tight by adding supressor. So learn your gun . ,

Most muzzle devices will not effect accuracy. However it can shift zero. But by fractions of inches not by yards.

They don't necessarily make a rifle less accurate but it can change the point of impact in my experience. Your dope will definitely change and you'll have to adjust to or compensate for the new point of impact if you've sighted in without a suppressor then added one later.

After adding a suppressor, ALWAYS check point of impact.

@Kesssuli

3 жыл бұрын

Fortunately my 17 hmr with supressor made to 22lr do have very little of shift Maybe without i get about 1 cm more up than with supressor so i would say it doesnt matter. But with my cousins supressor what is made exacly to .17 cal impact will shift about 3 cm to left and 3 cm to up compared to my own supressor. And no there is actually not difference in sound what would be able to hear with just ear. So overally every time you change anything on your muzzle check point of impact first before doing anything serius.

You guys kind of missed a key point on this one. If you have tailored a reload recipe for best accuracy in a given rifle, and now add mass such as a suppressor, brake, etc, you can definitely impact accuracy. Depending on the barrel stiffness (function of length and profile) and the amount of mass involved it may be minor, but the physics are such that both point of impact and accuracy are affected. It can easily be enough that you have to go back and develop another load to optimize accuracy with the suppressor.

you will see weight impingement, meaning it will change point of impact. it will increase your accuracy

What gun is on the table?

Older suppressors with wipes will destroy accuracy. Other than that I have found that newer models increase accuracy(a small amount).

My weatherby came with a threaded barrel and with a suppressor screwed on it definitely changes point of impact, once it's sighted in it holds zero

@harblz57

3 жыл бұрын

Point of Impact and accuracy are two different attributes. www.silencershop.com/blog/post/poi-shift

@chuckrogers201

3 жыл бұрын

@@harblz57 uhh yeah that's my point

I haven't done any research, but in F Open and F/TR competition you are not allowed a suppressor or a muzzle break. Maybe 2 reasons: 1 they reduce recoil and 2 then improve accuracy.

Can someone complete in a bench rest rifle match with one?

Mounting a suppressor CAN change your point of impact. That does not mean that it is less accurate. It just means that it has to be re-zeroed.

I have seen it go both ways. Most of the time a suppressor will increase accuracy oh, but I have seen a rifle that just doesn't shoot well with a suppressor attached

Why are shims needed as opposed to crush washers?

@aaronorr5586

3 жыл бұрын

Crush washers when compressed apply uneven pressure from the barrel to the rear of the muzzle device. Shims are precise flats of material so the pressure is applied evenly between the barrel and the muzzle device.

@223spree

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronorr5586 Thank you

What about a flash suppressor. Not a sound suppressor. My 350 has a flash suppressor on it, and I can't hit a paper plate at 200 yards. And only a 6 moa at 100.

If your using "wipes" in one, it will be less accurate at 1st. But the win is gaining "hollywood quite".

Depending on the range it could help.

Both a pal and I have rifles (that came factory threaded) that give us 1/4” accuracy. Despite the claim moderators assist with accuracy as they reduce recoil, neither of us can achieve much better than 1” accuracy with them installed. Competition shooters will not use a moderator for this very reason. Sorry guys, but in this rare instance, I don’t believe you can bust this ‘myth’.

My guns usually shoot better with the suppressor attached. I don't know if it's barrel harmonics or the reduced recoil, but they seem more accurate with.

How about debunking the myth that a stabilizing brace makes a pistol an sbr? The atf can't seem to understand that it doesn't.

@jd9119

3 жыл бұрын

The ATF understands, they just don't care. Their goal is to strip you of your rights (which then proves they never were rights to begin with). You (and I for that matter) haven't done anything to stop them and they know we just will draw more red lines.

May, and mostly likely will, change your point of impact, but not the accuracy.

It can change barrel harmonics!

I can see in the case described in the video causing a decrease in accuracy. Possibly the myth comes from the point of impact shift seen in some applications.

All but 1 of my rifles get better accuracy with a suppressor. I have all 5 Q LLC suppressors , Dead air Nomad30 , YHM resonator, CGS helios and Rex silentium custom lenght . Only my ruger 10/22 accuracy stays the same

I don't hunt without them

Suppressors -20 to accuracy and -50 to distance in COD.

Suppressor +5 stealth, -3 accuracy -2 range 😂

I think this myth comes from video games where the accuracy is decreasing with a suppressor, but there it is for balancing the game.

This series makes me want to submit all sorts of snarky "myths."

@CalebSavant

3 жыл бұрын

We are open to suggestions! Whatcha got?

Poor suppressor design and manufacturing can have accuracy issues on your rifle assuming the rifle is sound. But a well made suppressor can even improve accuracy if it just happens to luckily function as a barrel tuner to your particular combo. In my place I am allowed to purchase suppressors without limit or paper work so I buy several types and choose the one that I deem improves or at the very least does not affect accuracy. The bench crowd here though shooting .22lr do not use suppressors as they attest to it causing small poi shifts when the suppressor is dirty, the shots are fired in rapid succession, and it heats up the barrel faster also causes change in poi. Not a bench shooter though so I just take their word for it.😁 On my sbr subsonic bolt rig though a heavier and thicker 10inch suppressor has the same POI of its identically designed shorter and slightly thinner 6inch Suppressor at 50meters but the bigger heavier suppressor has about an inch and a half drop at 100meters. Velocity is about the same and I don’t think the suppressor is causing barrel droop on a fluted stainless 12.5 inch bull barrel… it’s just probably harmonics caused by the bigger silencer or something else???😁

But, but, but, when I play call of duty and I add a suppressor it reduces my accuracy stats...

Most claim a better accuracy using suppression. Modern supressors are far better designed than their predasupressors of the past when it come to gas mitigation and how even it effects the actual bore/bullet transfer path/turbulence.

I believe this is another myth that comes straight from some video games.

The fact is that it probably will shift the point of impact because of the changing muzzle velocity, and it CAN affect the accuracy just as any muzzle device.

@Orcinus24x5

3 жыл бұрын

No. Point of impact and accuracy have nothing at all to do with each other. This is a myth parroted by so many people who have never actually done a comprehensive and scientifically valid test of these devices.

@istvanromai9603

3 жыл бұрын

@@Orcinus24x5 "Point of impact and accuracy have nothing at all to do with each other." I didn't wrote anything like that, please read it again a few times and try to comprehend, don't use straw man argument!